Rabbi Shea Hecht speaking at Scheiner's Shul - Confessions of a Cultbuster

when I'm invited to go speak somewhere it's different places and usually the people who invite me are not necessarily people who end up uh at the lecture but they have one thing in mind and I may have something else in mind so I try to get to questions and answers very very quickly because I'm really here if I'm here to talk to you I'd like to know what you would like to hear and uh I'm happy to address those things that you would like to hear rather than what I'd like to speak about um and I will do so the same I can share you share with you many stories I'm not exactly sure until what time I they're giving me here as long as I want P dtick next to dck what about two 12 20 is for the for the earliest minut oh okay so I see we have a few young people here so I will uh first start off and address uh the younger crowd so the word deprogrammer what is a deprogrammer so if you have a Jewish person who got involved in another religion and we got to get them out and bring him back to yish there are many many different techniques of how to bring that person back but if they got him V what's called a cult which will soon explain what the word cult means uh we realize that to sit and talk to this person is not the way to go so we had to do is actually kidnap that person that young man or that young woman we'd kidnap the person we' then take take him to a safe house and lock him up in a safe house and tell them that hey basically you're here in the safe house until you start communicating with us until we start talking properly and um we then get into conversation and we show them how the cult the religion that they're in is foolishness is wrong in many cases it's not only wrong according to tah and God but also according to the American way we will explain these things and then uh we will also show the positiveness of yish and sometimes this person who got involved in this group was actually searching for something and we address that what we searching for what we looking for and actually see if T can fulfill that desire that need that search and the answer is I believe that ter can fulfill every desire search and need as long as we're looking for Kus we're looking for Holiness we're looking for tahara we're looking for Purity we're looking for love we're looking for good things and T basically addresses all these things in fact one of the lines when you talk with one of these younger people usually it was young a young person that got involved in a group one of the lines that I would say is you know what why don't you tell me some good philosophy good idea that you've learned in your cult and I will show you where it on the other hand I will show you bad things that are involved in your cult and those things do not uh are not part of T andish so just going back to um the what we call the grabbing that young person we had a variety of different cops sometimes it was simply you know on uh uh imagine you know on uh you're in the on on 306 and you're in on in the in the shopping mall and all of a sudden you hear there's a guy gets grabbed by a few KRA and thrown into a car and the car takes off uh well today this was done primarily my work was done in the 1970s and 1980s today because everybody has a camera in the hand I'm not sure I would do that if I had the opportunity to today and every house has a camera so I'm not sure I would do it necessarily on on on side streets but uh one of the parts of this work particularly for young people was somewhat a little exciting it wasn't even so much the actual cop but planning the cop finding out the person where they go when they come to know exactly where are you going to do the cop how you going to do the C when you're going to do the uh all those things were things that had to be worked out with detail of how to get that person to after the cop you then took him to the safe house and uh the average deprogramming took was a 4 day uh process there were those who took weeks and there were those who took less you know a day or two but the average de programming um not the average time the average person that we had was a 4-day process and I told you one of the things was to show them that they made a mistake what they were searching and looking for is not what they found and what they uh found is not what they were looking for and therefore they should uh seem to do good now in truth after I got the call to come and speak in this m Kesh about cults I said there must be something wrong must something wrong because my usual group of people that I speak to and are not people who DAV Ina like this let me just say it that way surely not the mix that we have here and uh so it was kind of strange to me that they even asked me to speak I mean perhaps they would call me to ask me to speak about other topics that I speak about but this particularly to speak about cults if I'm I'm worried about getting in a cult or if I'm worried about getting my son or a cult surely anyone sitting here is saying this is we're here for entertainment hopefully will entertain us but uh and I hope so too I uh sometimes I even have a sense of humor but uh but Billy what what is the story so I'm going to start off and talk about seven different issues that are now facing our community and do not think for one moment I'm talking to myself I don't know you so I can't really address you I'm talking to myself there are seven different issues that I think we have to be careful about concerned about and understand where some of our our own children and sometimes older than children thank you very kind I appreciate that um are getting capped in well first of all there's a whole T right now with Lear uh I'm not sure we can call Lear but uh when you listen to all the stories but a guy came in infiltrated our community played the game you know uh we was nothing less than a genius the the the fellow who you can probably say Alin I'm not a probably you can say yay on the guy and uh and and what and he he he learned the modalities of Rebus he has traveled around he presented himself as AA and but again a brilliant mind somewhat of a photographic memory and listened to tapes of this Reb and that rebba and played all the games and became his own re and attracted hundreds of people ran and violated hundreds of people and we're not going to talk about the details uh and again today they're um just two days ago I was called from Guatemala to see if I can come there uh of course I told him how can I come if I have to be here Wednesday morning uh but no that's a I said there's a possibility I in fact I'll still go but I I gave them certain guidelines which I believe if they follow those guidelines it changed a lot of the playing field that's down there and they're talk we're talking about over a 100 nefes 100 nishas that would out us to save that's one area that you have to say hey it does affect us it's something that may sound appealing to us and people from our community may geted into and by the way if the guy comes to collect money and you're giving him money just think of it if if the Catholic Church came around here and collect money would you give the guy a dollar so I think even then we have to be some what careful the next thing is I'm not going to go into details but maybe if any if you have have followed a little bit of my career uh about a year and a half ago there was a particular Yeshiva with a particular uh Rabbi he could called himself Rabbi a guy again with a brilliant mind somewhat of a photographic memory was attracting mostly um um Bali Chua or potential Bal Chua frier kids he started a Yesa had 30 B in Yesa 30im in the K family women children over 100 again over 100 shus I was I was I had a tremendous amount of flack from my own Community from kabat Community to stay off I don't have the good proofs I don't that I said I'm in this long enough I know the guy is guilty and unfortunately the all unfortunately turned out to be true he was guilty as it happens the guy now moved in this community Community uh the M Community I don't know exactly where where he moved but at at a future date uh I'm sure they'll give out some cator against the guy the St you know as a warning but again he had a a a functioning regular what we would call somewhat AA with Bim that he took advantage of the B he took advantage of the the families and we'll leave it at that the next craze mishas that our are involved in sometime is now called not all that the that they have these people to put it in O of kadus you know the breath all of various different breath techniques that that going to they're going to solve all your problems well first of all I'm here to say the first thing is it doesn't work listen guys I'm telling you not guys I'm sorry say it doesn't work it's a fraud it's a fraud it gives you a temporary high and you're back when you have to pay your telephone bill and you come back home and you have to pay your gas bill and you're back to exactly where you are if you don't mind spending $3,000 for a weekend and that they should play with your head where you don't know where you're going to end up afterwards and do stupid uh uh uh activities and believe me I say stupid I'm saying stupid okay that a doesn't work and B there are other uh of mind control and other games what we would refer on the on the cult the next interesting thing is within our community that unfortunately creeped into our community is the whole aasa or different very different drugs of names of different things you're going to take this drug we're going to go back and deal with your childhood okay and first of all there is something called I don't want to go into that but I can give a whole Rush on that alone false memory syndrome false memory syndrome and by the way um it's interesting in the world of psychology the world followed a particular psychologist who I can't I don't really care for very much uh um a particular schol for many years 50 years ago if you went into college and were taking psychology courses you could not graduate without entertaining this guy's philosophy 50 years later we found out all his stuff is baloney it's he has made stuff up he's wrong Etc so a lot of this stuff that today is being written about even in culture magazines please understand it's only a matter of time that someone is going to come and turn it right upside down it's simply a lie so the aasa thing as far as I'm concerned it's a nice way that guy because I seen the pictures I don't have to you know looks like a guy so maybe not a guy but he's dressed in guy he wants to use drugs I have a better idea go to the drug Pusher use drugs to hate but don't put it in don't enclo it in some kadha understand what you're doing you're taking drugs you're going on a trip you're either going to come back from that trip or not come back from the trip two articles have been written by family and on on on Co he wrote two articles I spoke to to the who who they took his son and they did this trip with him and un unfortunately they destroyed him completely they blew his mind he is not doing well uh psychologically mentally they P it killed a person so understand that they can be a lot of nice people they could put a lot of Hebrew nice words and the breath stuff is dangerous the aasa stuff is dangerous then let's go to another situation there is a fellow who conser that uh has these also these group things I've seen seen a number of pictures particularly with women he packs the room he charges for his time and he gives them a great experience that day so first of all I would like to just hear what his philosophy is on on on on belief in the etc etc he refused to take take my calls to even talk to me but that is somewhat secondary but again he has aund he knows how how how to play the masses he has watched some of the best uh in the gishu world out there and he does it he psyches you up and for that time you do what you have a very very nice afternoon but guess what Monday morning you go back to your real life you still have to take care of your six Kindel or your 12 kind and and and you're crying babies and and and the laundry and and pay the bills and and pay pay your etc etc so a it's a liee it's a fraud and B unfortunately again I don't care if the guy comes with six from someone in that gives the man a a a I'm not sure that do sat through his uh session or if he understands what crowdy is and what he plans and and getting into the thing there is a cult that I do write about in my second book that unfortunately many people within Crown Heights have been sucking into and that was a then it was called a call of a chauffer they repackaged the call of the chauffer today it's called and they are doing weekend after weekend again there's thousands of dollars they're charging the people first of all one of that b when they wrote about caller they said what do you have to do in on chabas thank you thank you I hope it's vodka yes water water ah water so um they they um um uh the caller shaua they they basically repackaged it they're not doing they're charging a lot of money they're going because one of at that point wrote what do you have to do with on shabas the avoid the the exercises that you're doing are not chabas do your program from Sunday through Tuesday why do you have to do it from Friday through shabas well one of the reasons we know why they do a chabas because they they have to CL you have to shut your phone and they don't want you to make be out in touch with the outside world so for 26 hours they have you in in in in where they where they want you but there's a lot of other things so as far as I'm concerned it's nothing less or more than a cult and the thing that I get calls of uh in essence I was a cult leader from 1975 to 1985 officially I retired in' 85 I've had many many cases over the last 30 years um um although the whole terrain the whole level the field has really the game has changed a lot but um often I get a call about what we refer to as a Onan cult a one person cult you know my children most most time I get calls from parents my children got involved with this particular of my the is giving them things think Caba said they should do this they should do that they should buy the cat put the cat on the roof off the roof in the basement lock it up go milk milk you know etc etc crazy things and sometimes even it's when my daughter got married they now moved away my son-in-law is in CLE I my daughter has not spoken to us in three years I've never seen my grandchildren I it's things like that which is a problem very very difficult to deal with I must say in that area had very little uh I have quite a bit experience very little success rate uh so it is it is somewhat of a problem now being that we're healing I see we're dealing with a a a crowd a little let's do the following B on B 1979 the Reb spoke by theas in the fifth theb addressed something called meditation he actually addressed not by one name but transal meditation why did the de speak about meditation then in 1979 what what was the emergency and urgency well in 19 uh 7879 uh transcendal meditation did a tremendous tremendous campaign in Israel and they had thousands of people signing up for uh for meditation in fact there was Israel television did a an Expose and they said as follows as follows they did with doctors and they showed that a from not a from a that puts Onin and Dav Shak for one half hour that benefit that they were claiming that if you do the meditation in the morning you have a good day they showed medically that a DAV should we say like a way he has to you know we say it that way Jew puts on and davins get has that same Tranquility relaxation uh Peace of Mind throughout the entire day that matches Transcendental Meditation but there basically as far as I'm concerned I'm a so so it's my so the that said then was as follows and please listen because this is a very very important did said meditation is like medication for the sick it will heal and for the healthy it will make sick in our community when there was a hoe about the call of the chauffer and there was back and forth so uh they interviewed me and uh and interview so he said okay you know I said guys it's very very simple it's very simple it's one line they say it's vitamins I say it's medication antibiotics would you take antibiotics if you healthy no it's going to make you sick will you take vitamins of course everybody takes vitamins I take vitamins too although people say I know the reports about uh what vitamins give you but but theb basically said for a sick person there is room for Med meditation in fact theb at that time wrote a letter to five different psychologist psychiatrists around the country that they should come up with something called the Jewish Med uh meditation and there was things that were were produced and uh different people came up and there are today people that claim they do different types of uh Jewish meditation but even according to the that you have now a Jewish meditation because I'll soon explain to you don't not for one minute for one minute associate meditation which what we call a person Godless because the meditation that they teach is basically to empty your mind when we talk about meditation we talk about how to fill your mind and there's a big difference so people say well no no no no no don't mix up the two guy who's before he's ding he's he's taking five or 10 minutes or a half hour to think about he's thinking about he's thinking about you know you know but he's thinking about something positive and they are teaching you to te think about nothing empty your mind empty your brain and that is a big problem so so um at that time the re spoke when he spoke in that and I must tell you a number of years ago I went and I learned the five times I listened to the tape five times I sat with a to study because sometimes a lane maybe you know with my I went over a number of times the the and I believe theim what the ever brought to the table at that point so just because it's called meditation oh we're Jews are in the meditation is in the meditation no no no it's a different meditation completely do not mix the two and the used the word that was word now I want to tell you something I went around to one or two R and said do me a favor what's the T of because even the art scroll English gumar has a little bit of a difficulty translating the word aayu but let me say the following most of these seven things that I've mentioned to you these seven different Cults that are around us and do plague us and are tempting to us and our are going to understand that they clearly took their stuff their methods their modalities their ideas their philosophy their many from differenta Cults that are Mish Buddhism number one and many other different religions as well so please my dear friends do not think for one minute just because the guy standing in the front is is wearing a l ofup and and and long p as far as I'm concerned it means absolutely nothing it means should I say what I think it means it just mean that one other Jewish brother is so dumb to buy into the garbage that the other religions are selling that's the way I look at it very very simple I mean there's a whole question is can you take things from other again I'm not I'm not a expert at all can you take things from other religions uh Etc what you can use from the what you cannot do it's a question and and by the way it is M some of these things do not think that oh no one uh what you think people are going to bow down to a to a chair and bow down to a cow yeah that guess guess what they do worship the cheer and the cow please do understand that and then don't happen back in or the time ofu or ter I should say but clearly finds pasin CL and I often because I'm I'm some what I'm International I get calls from schim that are in different places uh and some body may need therapy so are you allowed to go to a FR therapist okaya pasin clearly you're not allowed to go to a Fri therapist or a person who does or or or a goish therapist in fact mean Rabbi say you better to go to a religious Catholic therapist and to go to a FR therapist but some of these things that I spoke about before are clearly being taught and being led but not only people who are but people who have spoken against T and publicly in the iPods and and you're going to this person to get guidance okay it's like going to the to try to get pills for to live healthy that's exactly what you're doing on a level you're going to the Mal and saying listen do you have any good vitamins that I can live long yeah this you'll die to by tonight this will carry until tomorrow morning this Dr will get you to stop thinking about uh about being guilty for the avus that you C that you acted on the Lisa says and this is the the meditation that you'll do to help you not feel guilty for when you forgot to put on film or the MIT say that's how bad I believe it is but as they tell people I'm only one opinion and I'm not your of so you can check it out with your of but let me tell you something this one man's opinion is somewhat educated I've been around I spoke to these people's uh to in many cases I spoke to them people they don't even know that I spoke to them because I didn't want that they happen what oh we spoke the he and he said because that's what happened when another plague Came Upon Crown Heights which was called the mic drop which is also a stupidity people got up and and publicly said their their their flaws and and and wrongdoings okay they basically of course they did speak to me they said we spoke to a and it was okay I said no no he spoke to he and he did not say it was okay so um we can open up for one or two questions or I can actually give you one or two entertaining stories of about my cult work in my days of cult but um uh my schmoo is somewhat over again if I offended you I I I it's only coming from love I am I am very passionate of the work that I do and very very passionate about the people that I meet and unfortunately I see I see people from my communities and other communities simply fall off like flies who are going off the D and with an endorsement with a with a an endorsement and a energy that they're doing it under mental health or some other crazy and stupid reason guys please let's be with it again I want to start end off when I started with it doesn't work it doesn't work you're at peace for a day or two and that's it it doesn't work what do you what do you identify the cult and how do you identify when you talk about the word cult is it's it's it's it's going a little bit from a little bit off from what I'm talking about generally cult I say is as follows one of the things is that there is a cult leader that's taking advantage of you either financially uh or uh just simply power if I have the power to for to run your life there's a certain uh you certain uh tyer to that you and I may not have that tyer of of controlling other people and other areas as well where they AB take abuse and take advantage of other people um generally I when I talk about the formal Cults the the identific what I use my definition of a cult I break it into three different things but also they take away your uh individuality even though we Asim somewhat um go along with our group and you will have a certain Lush uh and I will have a certain and everybody here will have a with their theira no design is that they take away your individuality your individuality and d and din with your the blessings that hasem has given you your talent is something that we and we see this I mean I've see this very much within within laich that did ever a person had a talent that ever was against going to college yet there were certain individuals that had a talent of becoming a doctor becoming a lawyer and the dev said yes you go into a different category so we look at the individual not make us all zombies the movie that was made a video that was made about Le known as it's a YouTube I'm not saying you should watch it but if you go on YouTube anyways this is a better thing to watch and it says is a cult they ju Theos I mean um with Jim Jones uh who unfortunately 900 people killed themselves mamish killed themselves and maybe say you can say killed others because parents who kill their own children Etc something that and you think doesn't happen but it does happen so these uh they did a great job the guy who made made the I didn't make the film he interviewed me with some of my my ideas but the way he he put the put it together he shows how some of the behaviors Mish were so unbelievably they did a very very good job and that is what you have to understand that you're saying the cult one of the things is they're going to strip you from your indiv individuality now as it happens just to you know to to be straight I also say just because it's a cult it doesn't mean it's bad can you have a good cult technically you can I haven't found one yet but but but you can have a good good cult just because it's the cult word that itself doesn't make it ra to use a a terminology you know it's it's clipp okay it's not good and it's not bad but these people that I've seen particular now these guys who are doing it I just because of my talk today uh uh my son was in my office yesterday and he made me watch something about about breath work about the people it's p these guys are a sh the they are happy for you to fail and to take you $3,000 that they'll take before you fail and then after that then they have as far as I'm concerned they will walk you to the end of the thing and they will give the last push to throw you over uh to throw you off off the off the cliff that is my assessment yes I love to hear the stories but a question it's like some of a question but is there a way we have like a list or something that we know okay these organizations this person is something we need to be aware of could you repeat the question cuz I don't think the people on the camera going to hear hi in the camera um the the I'm going to divert from the question anyways I'm going to the question okay I get a call uh the other day and um I say you know I I didn't you you're calling me why you you calling me I mean there's other abim that no unfortunately many ranim do not want to get involved in something which is controversial you know what I'll actually share this situation okay because I think is a ammy magazine wrote A Few articles recently about something called uh um I'm Senor moment for thing um um a modality of uh of um um a modality of therapy called EMDR EMDR and uh as it happens the person the founder of EMDR was uh Fran chapero from California a nice Jewish girl uh she's not alive anymore so may her soul rest in peace she writes in her second book clearly if you don't do this properly you have a danger of false memory syndrome I started saying before the lately there was there was something I don't even want to say what what on What uh I'm embarrassed to tell you on what website it was a woman came forward and she says she remembers that something happened to her when she was three and a half years old let me tell you something most psychologists say that you don't have memory from before the age of 6 years old are you going to tell me you remember your upines yeah of course you remember your upes because your mother showed you pictures of the upines and they told you that Uncle FY came and and and tante Suri came and they brought you this and you're wearing that and and and you could we can create a memory can I just ask you I remember my upar without my mother uh so so again you may be a genius and in a different category or you may be simply fooling yourself being that I don't know you I can tell you what category I'm putting you in my head okay but if somebody tells me he you're wrong that guy is is Tak a genius yes I'm sure that people who have photograph people who are higher than thing I'll tell you one thing I don't remember what I what what my upshire and isses and my father and mother told me a 100 times cuz the never cut my hair so how can I not remember such a thing I don't judge you and I believe you neither should you judge me I don't judge you I don't wasn't the other you know no that's not a judgment go that's not a judgment go it's just how I receive it it's not about you it's about me okay okay but but I'm just telling you again again you mention something by name let me let me you know what let me rephrase it let me let me rephrase it let me rephrase it first of all again I I'm I'm concerned with with the with the crowd of how uh how blunt we can be over here but but started because quite blunt here honestly I've never for instance uh participated in any of these uh events for instance you did mention them by name I met many people here that that they were helped not only for two days you know till Monday morning I met them several years later and I see the I see a positive impact on that so if you can back up all your things with facts that would be very helpful for the okay you listen you want me to you know what I will spend with you 20 minutes after I I I finish speaking to talk to you about and how evil it is and some of people behind it okay I'm telling you right now I no but I did mention and you mention it so I'm going to tell you I'm no I'm I want I'm going to talk to you specifically about that let me just tell you one thing um my father did not have stupid children none of them okay and I spoke about seven different things some I mentioned Nam some I didn't why did I mention oh because the ones I mentioned the name believe me chapter and verse okay I am these people's number one enemy okay let me just clarify I'm not mentions verd yes Au they did say if you do it the wrong way it can be terrible right right but then again there is a right way to do it perhaps we clarify in everything that you're covering here that there is a path to a correct no no no don't say everything because there are certain things like there is no Redemption when you talking about there is no Redemption believe me I this Rodeo I did I'm KN for a long time sadic I'm telling you uh there's times that I don't that I don't know and and and and sometimes I'm even wrong but but there are certain things that I I know gun's good okay when the father of ani which was then call it a chaua was a plague upon my community okay and by the way I was a I was attacked in the street by family members by being heck you could be the biggest cult Buster in the world this time you're wrong and guess what happened 3 months later other people came forward and said how certain things that they do are simply not proper according to like I told you one of that dude this was a side simple thing if you're doing this activity it should not be done on chabas there areas on chabas the things we can do in guess what on Tuesday it's kosher on chabas it's not Kosher okay so thing that I'm a little bit off believe me I want to say you something um I thought long and hard not to speak it over here because I I was only asked two weeks ago to come here to speak so I didn't have that that much time thing but talking about an in particular uh GL I did the research I did the research okay and then if I really had guts I would really tell the truth about some of those people who have associated with those people okay and I know them quite well they would sue me and I'd win that's besides the point because the the facts are out there the stories are out there okay now let me just say the following okay question on EMDR I'm going to comment on just we're just going to get the EMDR I just want to say I went after and you in the same in the same sentence you did say that she said if you do it wrong so perhaps we should we should be very clear over here there's several some things that you're going to discuss here that could be done in the right a positive manner are you going do you agree with that or not um I'm yes and no I'm going to I'm going to make thing if I came here today or for that matter we are into the Bala movement I'm AA and I work for called so since my childhood balich chis was something that I but I appreciated I loved I encouraged I worked with I created Etc so guy's gonna come over here and say listen I was a Buddhist for nine years okay and I want to tell you my story it' be very very entertaining we'd all love the story and then he would say someone would ask a question can you tell us three good things that you still have from them off wrong you're not allowed to say anything when I met witha that closed up just recently I said said listen to me if the if the thing that you're doing more detail about what happen Ina because I was asked not to um okay you don't need to know what what the Yesa is what's difference you're not you not you obviously you are not in that Yeshiva so they're I'm doing okay you're saying a generic concept are yeshivas but okay let me let me so so you cannot take a bait from my understanding my from my understanding you cannot take anything from Buddhism and say I'm going to adopt it one second one second yes one minute let me finish I'm G to answer your question about it as well so we can't say meditation unless you want to define the word meditation we have I did touch it I did I did I did touch about it I did touch upon it okay there is meditation that is positive meditation or I don't know if you want to call it uh uh uh empty meditation and emptying your mind empty meditation is definite I thought I I thought I I thought I I thought I explained that I thought I okay guys you don't have to stick up for me I can handle myself okay St yeah okay let's go through the story okay okay let's do as follows let's do as follows let do as follows um officially I have a I have another 10 minutes me share uh just two little stories with you um for and after I will young man I will address uh I'm I'm willing to stay here I can sit all all day I never work so today on today's holiday I surely don't work uh I'm happy to sit here around and and and and Sho by the way this is my life it's my passion I've given my my life uh I have children that that that are that are that are involved in this and my father did it before I uh and he got me into this to begin with uh I write in my book my older brother who actually I should have mentioned right away Shalom he actually got me into the cult work to begin with he was working in I write a book the job I never asked for in in in my book um I I I tell the story okay just ask after St after after well just a question so so okay so Mr cats had a store in crownheights two every Friday would go to Mr cats's Store and put on filling uh with Mr Catz Mr Catz tells a tuim that I have a son that unfortunately got involved got hopped in with the unification Church commonly known as the Moonies these two Bim don't know mo fromon and they don't then they know where to guide and what to do but every Friday we put on film and he would sort of you know say a prayer for my son say a prayer for my son one day Friday they come into him and Mr cats tell the two B come in the back guys I got to talk to you he takes him to the back of the store and before he puts on film he says let me tell you Tuesday I was driving in from Long Island now I do I'm giving you now actually the correct thing because because in the book I changeed everything that they shouldn't know but this was this happened 40 years ago so so uh Tuesday I was driving in from Manhattan from from Long Island to Crown Heights well one of the ways you have to drive through a neighborhood called East New York bronzville n New York those of us here that are a little bit older know bronzville n New York was it used to be a it was a big Jewish neighborhood and unfortunately became completely black and in this time in the 1980s you white people gen generally didn't even walk in that neighborhood because it was dangerous but there were still old shs there that were barded up or some became unfortunately uh used for other other other purposes and uh and some were just bordered up there was a particular Shool that was boarded up and uh and and uh and he says Tuesday I often pass go down this street on Tuesday I pass by I noticed the door to the shoel is open and in front of the shoel there's a big dumpster I park my car I go inside I see a black guy cleaning out stuff I say to him what's happening he says no I was hired to clean out the building uh throw the junk out because tomorrow a bulldozer is bulldozing this building and entire block is going to be made into affordable housing he says do you mind if I take I'm into I I I uh save uh I'm a collector of stained glass do you mind if I take some of the stained glass he say mister you can do whatever you want I just told you the're bulldozing the building you can take as much glass as you want he says like a pig in Schmutz you know I shouldn't say that over here but but I was happy I ran to my car took my my toolbox came back and I started taking glass I had windows and glass and and mugging doid and and I had to unbelievable I filled up my car with glass that my car was now being weighed down to to drive I didn't know how I was going to drive I said look it's enough I go put my two box and I go to say goodbye this tell the and I go to say goodbye to the uh to this black eye to say thank you and I CED him and he says I don't know I said Mr I want to thank you very much for the glass by the way he says I don't know what he said by the way is there anything else that I can take he says well Mr I don't know downstairs in the front there's a closet there's something there with like two sticks and uh he runs downstairs the old shs I mean you have old shs built as a there's a big Sho upstairs and then a Viber Shool and a Bas medish downstairs not this Sho was built that way he runs in goes to the front sure enough he opens up the the closet in the front he sees a sa he comes back to the guy he says can I take it he says Mister you might as well take it because if not I have to throw it into the dumpster I have to dump it and he tells the I have the Torah and I'm giving you the Torah the two take the Torah they put they take they run back to 770 it's now 2:00 770 Friday afternoon there rabbi is there and they run to him he's only there they tell him the story he says good we're going to send the into before sh still and he writes the letter and he writes a letter to the saying listen this Mr cats save the is like a person like a Jew therefore in the that he saved the we're asking there before that he should save his son and we send in into the before shabas Sunday morning 6:00 in the morning the back door of uh uh of the house there's banging Glenn cats the boy who was in the Moonies who he had no contact with was saying telling me I'm never coming home came home he said Dad I'm home I'm here for a few hours we can spend together a few hours and then I'm going back to the cult to which at that point he called his local Rabbi who got in touch with us and we told him we're going to meet the kid he should take the kid somewhere we met him and put him into the safe house and uh today this younger man is a z he became a a complete B he has children he has grandchildren who are Ben Story number one story number two uh there is a cult uh which some say you're not allowed to name the name of the cult itself is the name of and it should not be said of course uh when I usually speak you can say because I'm making fun of it and therefore I'm allowed to but anyways the har kishkas the Harry kishkas is a is a cult many of us I'm sure in this room remember when they used to be on all the the the the bus terminals and all the airports they would be there with their red yellow robes their long ponytails that would give you a book and then they would ask you money and okay this guy is involved in the har kishkas for six years the family uh actually came from Mexico we tell the story write it a little bit different over here Ronnie was in the har kishkas for six years and um it came this time of the year this goes back again a few years this time of the year and where did he end up where did Ronnie end up out of all the centers of harri kishka in the world in in he was living in uh in um in the outskirts of Tel Aviv and every day he was going around he was selling tapestries they was selling tapestries he was making between $60 to $100 a day in those days it was a tremendous amount of money raising for the cult his parents had an off this week from the business so they decided to go back to try to find their son they knew where he was and try to see if they can slep him home they come they uh they come to the cult they allow him to meet to meet with his with his parents to meet with him for 20 minutes after 20 minutes the head of the guy in charge said excuse me Mr Mrs helland gu it's over he has work to do he's serving God etc etc please you have to leave now Mr Mr health health health fund are are in uh Israel in those days to change of ticket was not like today and they there for another 10 days they don't know what to do so a guy says to them a friend of their says listen you're in Israel there's a lot of cabalists around let's go to you know go get a br for your for your for your son and they go from you know from one Reb to another Reb and they end up in AIC cabalist they come into his uh they come into RAB this part I usually don't tell but the first thing is that says empty your pockets you know he emptied all his pockets in those days he had $2,000 in know this pocket that Pock takes the money suppos into the drawer and closes the drawer he says to him like this he looks in the eye and says he go home and take the muza in your house is not AER mza and uh you'll take off the mza and then you'll put on Maus on every door Post in your house starting with Ronnie's room their son's room and when you do that you'll say this T he gave him aill to say to when they put up that thing and then go around the whole house to put up meses okay they go back home after the the holiday season beginning of January they go back home and they do they Tak now this fellow these were people who were not sh shabas yet at that point they uh they had a cousin who was a and they called says Mish I I'm at the airport I'm leaving you know now it wasn't Mish at the airport cuz those days there was no cell phones but you know I'm going to the airport not to leave I'll be back in 2 weeks and I'll I'll change you I'll fix you miss this in 2 weeks okay he went he came and why I'm giving you the time thing is because you'll I I want you to understand that the time uh uh thing is plays a role over here he came back and they put up they went around the only these were people only had a m on their front door they took the mza off the M of course as said by the rabbi was pule and then they went around and put on mzas in each one of these places two weeks later they get a call from their son that he's coming home for a few days you see what happened was as follows in the Harish is you have to write a diary and we follow the diary the day after they changed they put up the Kus his diary started reading as follows I'm starting to have doubts in my religion I don't know if I'm in the right place I don't know and he starts having doubts and Wason and he came up with the idea as follows in his travels in this cult he started off in Italy he was for two years in Italy and in Italy the house that they lived in was a more uh friendly warm loving house and he decided that he's going to go back to his Guru that was in Italy and there will'll be mkik uh in his belief system he'll get stronger in his belief system and this is the way he's writing this thing and sure enough he writes this the next day a little more next day a little more finally two weeks later he says I'm going to Italy and he says I don't know what possessed me I I needed to get a visa to go into Italy and those days needed a Visa I decide I'll go back home first and then I'll get the visa to go back to Italy sure enough he got back home and we we then hopped him we actually hopped him by the airport a whole a whole scheme of how we we put him into a car and and took him to a safe house Etc sitting with Ronnie we tell him the story of the mza and then we start telling in the timetable of what happened and he then goes and takes his diary he sees mishit matched and then we told him the story that blew his mind they took off the muuza on the house and as I said to you it was pule we all [Music] know guess what this doid on this mza the corner wore off and what did it read God of another another God the the theid turned into a r Al and when he heard this story that was enough to him to realize that there's go there's one God and he belongs back to the Jewish people and basically came back he actually went to Yeshiva after for for a while for mistake a month iniva and basically uh of course Chang his whole lifestyle it also inspired the whole family etc etc which is interesting because I have found that in the hundreds of cases that we dealt with and in the tens of deprogramming and in the great success rate that we've had there was always some level ofus they always had some type ofus in the background like again the sa the muza you know we here we go through the motions we think that we're doing what we're doing it's all orchestrated it's all being taken care of upstairs God we are only if we have if we're Z and God knows how lucky I am that I was to be a to help as they said hundreds of families and hundreds of kids and and and and tens of kids who were in involved in in the regular regular cults all we have to do by the way is uh make that make that decision that I'm going to do something and the will give you a lot of opportunities of how you can help Jews how you can save Jews how you can really do uh good yes I have two questions question number one is narcissism cult need the one and the same narcissist is controlling or ulty there a narcissist there a narcissist ulty that's question number one question number two he said that one onone C you had almost zero success I didn't say I I said very little success don't say the word yeah okay one one like marriage one should be EAS versus in a whole how do you differentiate what is the both your questions um I'm not able to answer on a you know on on a thing if you want to stick around I'm happy to tell you you know many of many of the cult leaders first of all some them I Met Myself and I studied it myself and I would say they do have some level of narcissism uh but narcissism within itself doesn't doesn't make it a cult uh and by the way you could you can deal with narcissism so if if someone is a narcissist it could be pointed out to them and hopefully they can they can work on that I mean it is something that that is it is fixable by the way psychologists say um whatever that means because there's people who will still say there's another another rule of psychologist but psychologist say that narcissism is a learned behavior it's not you want you're not born with that Gene there are other things I think for cult leaders have they're born with certain genes of you know of yeah of dictatorship I think is another word uh if we if we follow the idea what he asked before about controlling other people so um and and your second answer second again it's it's there's a lot of details and I don't think it's for this uh format if you want to stick around I can give you uh my input let me just go ahead can I fli the question have you found a tendency people that are attracted to Cults excellent question what's ask who very good excellent okay I write my book I finished my book uh and at that time the father of the deep program is is a black guy that lives in San Francisco by the name of Ted Patrick I don't believe he's alive today he was then quite a bit older than I was and uh and you know they told me if you can get a forward written by this guy you're really good because he has a certain thing in fact uh I first copy of the book we we put it on on the outside but it's it's it's in it's in the book Thank you it's in the book you know that he wrote he wrote this forward he reads my book and he calls me up and he says to me Rabbi you write in your book you make it sound so simple and you make it sound like it's dumb people that were attracted to the Cults that's not so the smartest people are attracted to the Cults my first customer were Jewish people and they are the smartest people my second was the Catholics they too are very studious and people of the book and very very smart and anyway said so I had to change it we went back and wrote re rewrote a little bit and pointed out that it's not a person who is weak that's attracted to the cult but a person in the time of weakness every single person in this room except the Geniuses every single person has moments of weakness and at those moments of weakness we are susceptible and that's what you want to call we all have at different times for instance there was a book called uh a little booklet made how to make a cult who should you look for what time of the year you should go go on college campuses and you know that the Juniors were very very susceptible more so than the freshman southmor and those who are graduating it's a time of their life or be right before graduation because a lot of people they're going to graduate they now have to on to the real world the parents said you're not coming home so where did they where did they end up they ended up in a cult so the answer is and that's perhaps what I started with saying is don't think over here we're immune or I'm going to take these vitamins and no no we are all human beings we all have moments of and that's why every single one of us we need a love we need to have a we need to have friends we need to have family we need to have a support system because not the wrong moment comes you make the wrong uh uh decision and you live with it and often to answer something else not only that that you made a stupid decision that 10 years later you want to say that I didn't make the wrong decision it's still helping me oh really I I I the people that I've met with which are obviously different than the people that you've met with they said yeah the truth of the matter is maybe it's a after all we know the fact is that so many of our inhibitions our shortcomings our difficulties our challenges are really something that was fed to us okay I I I have a friend of mine who came from out of town his father said you're a great driver but you can't drive in New York it's 30 years later the guy is afraid to get into a car to uh to you know in New York he'll drive all over the place D like I'm a suger he got fast and slow and everything else but it gets to New York City he'll he's parking the car and taking the train okay so how many inhibitions do you have because of not not you of course because of your father and your mother or because of a particular Mal you know what you know if you're you know if you're a mamad you're probably not sitting here today because you have school but if you're a mid what is the number one thing that you basically want to take tell your child you tell your child you know what you can you can you can do it there you can do anything just do it just try it yes you say about first want to write about removing say first of all I I think anur is is real personally I have a I have one second I I have a whole speech about that in a whole clest it's not going to and there is an inura uh and uh but again can you take advantage believe me I I I I I can I can sit it till Mish and and after and can tell you more stories by the way um I I I'm not into this but if you do want to buy one of my books um it's only $10 today uh and the money basically goes back to stcker so uh so you may you may want to enjoy it uh you're sticking around young man because I'm not letting you to get away with what you what you uh that that I took as you accused me of um I am definitely not guilty hi sorry I didn't get my