Dr. David Lieberman: Successful Relationships with Difficult People - Project Inspire Convention

first good morning to everybody this is some hour to wake up and to uh to come to a shear so I certainly appreciate it some time ago I was speaking Muncie those of you that were previous talks here I've heard this and speaking of the shaba tone and they asked me to introduce myself I said you know I'm a little comfortable introducing myself that's it sounds a little self-serving they said you know but we just we generally don't introduce speakers they introduce themselves I said I don't know what to tell you so they said maybe one of you kids want to introduce you so I sort of asked not thinking I get a positive response and one of my boys jumped at the opportunity so ever since then when we go he's been introducing me so if you will permit my son will introduce me and then we're going to begin oh my favorite introduction so successful relationships with difficult people I came up wondering if some of your friends and family aren't quite offended you made a point of coming here by the way it's like where you're going oh you know I've got a really important talk to go to i okay you don't worry this is for me you know this is one of my favorite talks the reason is because you get a lot of bang for your buck you know you can work on yourselves and I've written as Aaron said a number of books self-help books then I realized know what you could be working on yourself building yourself esteem setting goals and doing all those kinds of things that are right but then you've got people in your lives that are just manipulative mean unhealthy cruel disrespectful and they just interfere with the quantity of your life so what I'd like to share are some very good practical ways to not only just understand this type of person but also how to navigate your relationship with this person because we all have difficult people in our lives is it anyone here that doesn't have a difficult person in your life just raise your hand and then float right it doesn't happen we all just have difficult people now there's degrees of difficult this is difficult difficulty thank you and it can drift into the area of mental illness and so on and we're not going to spend too much time trying to diagnose the person we'll just assume that they're just difficult and we'll take it from there so there's a lot of neat psychology here but let me just touch up some up a talk that I gave yesterday on self-esteem and we're going to just sort of pivot in this direction so I'm going to be speaking very quickly for that I mostly apologize the good news is that this book was given away for free so it's not so self-serving it's a how free will works it was given away here it was very nice of them to do it to put in people's thought baskets when you came here so if you get lost go ahead and just take a look at the book it's 999 so if you don't have it then at 999 you could really steal it from a friend and not feel too bad that they have to replace it for just 999 okay so here's the psychology in a nutshell by the way I like to make these talks as practical as possible so as we move along if you have any questions comments thoughts anything is not clear feel free to fire away interrupt doesn't make a difference we just have my gosh a very short window here so we can make this move as quickly as I as particle so let's look at a brief synopsis of the dynamics involved we spoke yesterday that every person has three forces the body the ego and the soul body wants to do it feels good the ego wants to do it looks good our soul in a shaman wants to do it truly is good the alarm clock goes off in the morning they'll battle it out now the more good choices we make meaning the more we go with our soul on our Shama rather than give in to the body excess food excess eating excess entertainment or given to the ego by things you can't afford make a joke at someone else's expense think of the ego by the way as a projection an image of how you want other people to see you the less we like ourselves the bigger this ego is there's no way to get around it the ego compensates for feelings of insecurity the feelings of embarrassment shame inferiority so the more I at the core I genuinely like me the smaller the ego the less I like me the bigger the ego the ego is a projection of one I'm not but how I want the world to see me now we all have an ego to some degree we all have a body to some degree so it's not an all in done proposition but generally speaking the small the ego now small ego doesn't mean that you are a doormat there are three general personality types you have high self esteem and the small ego that's a healthiest person that's me then then you have low self esteem and a big eagle that's the loud obnoxious person that's a person that needs to put on a show walks into the room tries to be the center of attention because he's trying to boost his own feelings of self-worth because at the core he doesn't feel like he is much so he lives really for an image which is a very dangerous place to live because that means my mood is going to fluctuate depending on what type of feedback I get for the rest of the world and then you've got low self-esteem we call it dented ego that's not the person that on the surface that can look like a humble person but really this person doesn't give as much as they allow themselves to be robbed the difference between giving a donation and being robbed in one case $50.00 is going out of your pocket and you feel very empowering the other is you feel very weakened and vulnerable because somebody stole the money from you now again the action is the same $20 is going out of your pocket but when you choose to do it that is proactive when you choose not to do it you know have a choice you're not really giving on the surface it can look like someone who's full of tested very humble very giving but the truth is if you say yes and you can say no you're not saying yes you got that you got to be able to say yes or no in order to say yes or no and make it a genuine choice so what happens is this is that if I'm making poor choices in my life we're painting with the broad brush here there's a lot that goes into it but if I'm making poor choices or I've got this old record playing because of childhood and I've been walking around feeling dented banged and bruised I don't feel very good about me so I turn to the rest of the world and I'm gonna insist that you like me and the man that you respect me and I need for you to feed me what I try to do is this I desperately convert your affection your attention your respect into self-love right now the problem is this and this bless you it's not a ratio that really makes a lot of sense because if I don't love me I cannot imagine why you would love me on one hand I desperately want you to love me but if I believe that I'm unlovable I will push you away with one hand pull you close with the other and then up spinning you around like a top and that's why you feel the way you do with these people you think yourselves you know what if you weren't such a pain I would really we'd have a better relationship you want to have a better relationship you need you want you say you wanna have a better relationship yet you're doing everything you can to push me away you're being difficult you're being a pain you're you're being unfair being argumentative you mean I'm putting being me doing these things the kids it's not we're not talking across social I'm a bad person we're talking about somebody who is unwell unwell people do one of all things my favorite sayings right people say this person why they're doing this but because they're not healthy and they're looking for what unhealthy do people do unhealthy things irrational people do irrational things what's the question so what happens is this if I don't like me very much I desperately want you to love me but I don't feel it because I'm like a cop without a bottom you pour into a pour into a pour into it and the bottom still that's empty and still thirsty I'm still hungry whatever it is when I'm done now to make matters worse is not only do I crave love and affection from you and I have no clue to hold it no vessel to hold it but I can become very controlling the manipulative and the reason is because see if you read Knopf Weinberg's that's all used to say if you don't love you don't love me because the person doesn't love themselves not only can't they receive the love but they can't give love you give what you've got you give respect if you don't self respect what you're giving you give love as I said last night how somebody treats you is a reflection a confession of their character of their own mental health it has nothing to do with you this is fundamental people get better in therapy either when their insurance runs out or when they get this point just because somebody doesn't love me doesn't make me unlovable well but if my mother did death of that just because somebody can't accept me doesn't mean there's something wrong with me because somebody can't give to me it is a reflection of them but here's what happens why we as adults walking around with this corrupted thinking that says if somebody's mean to me it means maybe there's something wrong with what kind of crazy equation is that that's the ego that's a it's a and here's what happens in childhood see children entirely egocentric no offense okay they're supposed to be so the world revolves around them which is why for example children whose parents get divorced very often who are they blame they blame themselves right now it may have nothing to do without the interest of fair disclosure able to come from a broken home I mean that literally a tree fell on my roof growing up and then my parents got divorced but it's my brother's fault it turns out so that's okay it's funny I'm only half kidding yeah don't tell this to young calls okay children's highly egocentric the world browser on them so how the parent treats a child I wish we were talking about Finnick we just it's not I was on the docket this year maybe mr. sham next year but is is the child seasons that sells the lens of the parent so my self-worth hinges on how I'm treated once again painted with a broad brush the lots of things that go into here so if my mother or father yells at me is abusive doesn't have time for me I can't help assume that it's because of a defect or deficiency within me because who else could this be a bad except for me I am the center of the universe I'm egocentric so if somebody's treating me this way it has to be because there's something wrong with me it never crosses my mind that the something won't be which is why you can have kids as even as adults they grow up and they still hold their parents on a pedestal and on one hand we should but just because a person is our parents and we have very serious halakhah obligations it doesn't mean that they're healthy do you understand how somebody treats you has nothing to do with your self-worth get it really own it and it'll change you you're playing an old tape if you think that if somebody's nice to you somebody likes you somebody says great job so now everyone likes positive feedback wait what does like desert feedback but the healthier you are less relevant it is and the same hand also less relevant is negative feedback you like it great I'm glad I'm glad you don't like it okay I speak with rabbis Ella Christian who's great and he's he's just he's through and through we traveled together at the Sinai and dhaba for about a week and when you travel with people you really get to know them and we've known each other for about 10 years and we're speaking once we get you know different types of mail some friendly some less so and he said to me he's got a great line he says you know what somebody says Robert please you know I didn't like your book he says okay it wasn't written for you and they're like mom where do you go with that one was it written for you okay I just know interesting it's because it's so easy for any of us to get the yeah I didn't like it well what do you know yeah okay it's not for you one of my favorite sayings is its originally a sale saying it's some will some won't so what move on next right meaning that all walks of life whether it sells whether it's relationships whether it's a you know some people like you some won't so what move on but the person that gets stuck with the ego us them whomever right we assume that it's got something to do with us now we have an obligation to hear it a person saying if they're saying it's a at the giving rebuked criticism we have an obligation not only to give it but to hear it but if it comes packaged in a unpleasant disrespectful little box I will get rid of the box and then see what the message is rather than focus on the messenger so number one in dealing with difficult people is that you have to appreciate the reality that is already there and that is that everyone in our lives is Ashley a messenger from a Shem to teach us a message and they're here for a good and for our growth we think sometimes you know what you know Hashem if you would just get rid of this person I could do so much more you know I could be so much more successful so much happier so much more productive and we bemoan these emotional vampires that drain our time money energy and heartache and it's almost like we're talking to the Mafia you know maybe I should this person has a little slipper they just maybe you take care of things and I can go about who we fail to realize which is why the Talmud says that anger is akin to idolatry because if I become focused on this person I become angry I completely missed the message I'm focused on the messenger forget about the messenger ask yourself always what is the message for me next and please forgive me I know I'm speaking quickly and covering a lot of ground but ah the good news is tor any time who I absolutely love they're videoing this you can go to tourney time comm punch it in my name and you'll see not only a talk like this this talk but a whole list of different shehram I give weekly in lakewood on mondays 8 o'clock anyone in the neighborhood feel free to drop by and also archived ones and if you press the follow button then all the talks would just be sent to your inbox assuming you want to bet so you don't have to go searching the site for it again tawny time comm it's an amazing amazing site run by beautiful people okay so that's number one number two is how hard would have been say insert page number please stand by you know what I had a stream blindness just to make sure that we covered what I wanted to and then I didn't fix co2 I'm sorry any questions I will casually take while I glanced through my notes so casually alright yeah alright good enough so number two is this just because somebody did something you don't like doesn't mean you have to become angry as a result now it's a finish to some people but please understand this it bless you is that there's a saying in biology that cells that fire together wire together and want to share something with you absolutely fascinating and that is that the connection between brain cells neurons are called dendrites and those dendrites either gets stronger or weaker depending on how many times we engage that cause and effect so stimulus response the newest response and that connection either grows strong or weaker same thing with your muscle memory learn to play the piano that those connections become stronger or you don't use a talent sort of atrophies now what's most fascinating is these connections can grow stronger and weaken very very quickly so much so that they found that a person who becomes blind within one hour of learning Braille the cerebral cortex of the brain the part of the brain responds I see the visual cortex responsible for sight begins to shrink expand the the space for tactile function because they know long I'm think about this within one hour the brain is much more elastic than we ever suspected and we literally can wire a rewire ourselves for anger or for any type of Mita which is now we all have a nature but we know people that have a hair-trigger response and become angry at the drop of a hat other people ah you drop their hat that's like right now yes there's a nature but we also know people I mean I still you know that's our job as human beings is to rise above our nature that work on themselves where they could say you have no idea how angry I used to get now they worked on themselves worked on themselves psychologically emotionally but physiologically they tip the odds in their favor because every time something happens and you don't become angry the next time you're that much more calm physiologically you make it easier for yourself to remain calm and you can grow you could become a masterpiece superstar just by working on this area it's an amazing thing it's an amazing thing so I want to share with you something that will save you mom is 25 years of therapy now I'm not against therapy I have a beautiful house and cars because of it but I want to share these something that will save you therapy something happens you take it personally you become upset something happens you don't take it personally you don't become upset that's it have a good day today that was easy there's it ah that's it now what part of us takes it personally the ego how do you reduce the ego by making good choices the entire book here you think this is not self-serving as it sounds since it was given away he is half of the book is devoted towards understanding hishaku Mazal and and the psychology of choice and self-esteem and happiness the second half is practical it's like a fine okay I get it I get this like you said easy now what then the second book is focused on the second half is focused on setting goals visualization even meditation willpower self-control being able to actualize it because we've got to break free from a lot of bad nasty habits from this circuitry that's wired against us so in order to reduce this ego that takes it personally I have to make better choices because very simply self esteem ego seesaw one goes up the other goes down the more I like me from making good choices the more responsible I am the more self-esteem I have more self-esteem I have the smaller the ego less self esteem I have the bigger the ego the ego exists only to compensate for my feelings of inferiority for weakness for my own stuff right it kid does not exist people often conflate the two and they say oh he's got a big ego he really likes himself know if you like himself in a small Eagle motion Roubaix to the humblest of men he was an honor of the greatest honor also one of the greatest leader the Jewish people also a very good indication of leadership is humility he had direct prophecy he spoke to reality with the capital R that's clarity that strength that's power an ego is just a false self it is an illusion of what we're not but how we want the world to desperately see us okay next if someone any life suffers with an emotional illness diagnosed or otherwise listen it is not your job to fix them to cure them to educate them sometimes you're waiting for that perfectly crafted sentence to introduce reality and you think ah you know what let me go ahead and just here's my opening and just tell the person oh you know what and then you end up kicking yourself afterwards after 20 years if they're not getting it call it a day my beards not long enough to tell you why these people are in your lives but I can say if they're in your life and they're not going anywhere meaning immediate family try loving and accepting them I guarantee you your life will change because you're no longer waiting or frustrated see if your expectations always exceed their capacity you'll be frustrated I'm sorry does this mess you up moving around I'm sorry yeah I'll stay in one place you say hopefully get up right now that you got to get up I'm sorry I'll stay here if your expectations constantly exceed right this way you always be frustrated so stop trying like once again we have an obligation to help people to teach them to inspire them but if they're not getting it and they're not getting it and you're not getting anywhere try calling it a day just see what happens see it's very hard dealing with some people who are very successful they have a high IQ which is nothing to do with emotional health by the way to the contrary it's interesting how that works but sometimes too high of an IQ something which I fortunately do not suffer with you can again split off as different types is sort of creative and then there's a well the creative type can sometimes to be more prone to emotional unwellness but so they don't - don't go hand in hand it's easy to take a person because the thing this person is so successful they're doing this they're doing that they're doing all these things but they're not doing the why aren't they being a mensch to me why aren't they being respectful but it's kind of them do it emotional intelligence and intellectual intelligence or two different ships here they don't run in parallel and just important to understand okay we're going to I think just a quarter to that there's another talk in this room do you know can you because I don't like to take time from another speaker but I'm happy to stay a little bit more if anyone has questions I'm sorry please this goes to ten o'clock good broker Shem okay good so we have we have some time great okay are any questions by the way before I go on yes please okay here the question let's assume you don't know the person's diagnosis which by the way it doesn't matter anyway I Got News for you half the diagnoses are wrong right and the other half are questionable it is you know it's one of those things where you see in the media whether it's bipolar or whether it's personality or whatever it is and suddenly you begin diagnosing all your friends with that and with sort of whatever becomes in vogue and I'm not so interesting the diagnosis I had which is why it doesn't matter where the person is mean or unhealthy now you can have more rough - if they're unhealthy but no my so if they were really healthy they wouldn't be mean either you know so it's sort of like how where's their behavior where does their if we will kick in I don't know sometimes I don't even care and that's the difference between foolish sick and evil you know a fool a fool sees reality but ignores it a sick person doesn't see reality and an evil person sees what's wrong is attracted to it and lunges toward it right so whether this person again is foolish sick of evil it doesn't you know it oh yeah well a lot of nuances here but your question is fine because the person doesn't have to have a diagnosis we're all walking around a little bit off I Got News for you not just those now you kid out we're all a little bit off person came over to me and show some time ago and he says let me ask you a question am I crazy now here's the problem he happens to be just nuts certifiably completely crazy these are nuts what do you do so I said to him I called him so and so I said let me tell you something in this world you've got two choices you can either be a little crazy or a lot crazy I didn't tell much category he was right we're all a little bit you know neurotic is the new normal everyone's just got their stuff so but soon they've got theirs and you've got yours now if somebody is treating you poorly because you and you don't know why let's assume it's somebody they just seemed just to have it in for you it's generally because of one or two reasons either they're jealous or envious of you or you did something to them that they feel was a perceived slight disrespectful and so on okay that's generally if somebody just has it in for you again either this sort of the jealous or and a jealousy or envy or they feel like you didn't give them the proper covet I'm gonna see if here's the thing we don't argue over things we don't argue over whether the windows open or closed in shul we don't argue whether the socks on the floor in a marriage or whether you lease or rent them any event you don't argue with things you argue over your right to be heard to be respected to be validated to be appreciated that's really what we're arguing over so if you have somebody who has a is ego oriented they are going to perceive these slights and if even if they're minor even if you didn't intend it and even if you didn't do it because if I believe I'm unlovable and you do something I can't assume as any other motivation other than the fact you're doing it to me because you don't like me it makes sense in my logic doesn't it if I'm unlovable if I don't have respect for me I don't know why you respect me so if you brush by me or you close the window in shoals it's gotta be because you're not giving me the proper respect because I don't feel it now we can begin to have so much more empathy for difficult people right right so the question is is a possible as somebody doesn't like just cuz you know like the nature we there are good decent human beings do not like people who are unlawful who are immoral who are disrespectful we cannot like that but there's a difference between recognizing and injustice and recognizing somebody is unwell and becoming angry as a result you understand this if you see somebody act in an improper way and you were at the highest possible material for a human being you would look at that person with such empathy such compassion because what does empathy do it allows your ego to shrink and connect with the other person when you lose empathy it means your egos engaged and you focused on you not in that person but if you had comports empathy is that connection empathy different from sympathy empathy is your pain is my pain because there's a wholeness of unity sympathy is I feel bad for you but I'm not going to go through any great efforts to alleviate your pain because it's not mine empathy different empathy which allows us to have love means that I would rather be in pain than you be in pain and their words that is real true honest caring when you want to alleviate somebody's pain even though it cost you pain so you see somebody because you don't like their nature I would suspect ok you cannot like somebody because I got and that's it's not like you can't find a meda to be distasteful but to not like that person as a result number one is saying to yourself that ah they should because I'll say you can't judge anyone till you walk the model in there Crocs right arts girl because because we don't know what the majority of that person's on we don't even know what material we're always on so we can't judge that person we don't let the struggles are as a matter of fact if we had their Pecola we might be acting like ten times the idiot they are so ok well something to make up please so you have to separate out as we all know with clinic the act from the person secondly even if it is the person if a person was we were in a higher level we wouldn't be angry with that person is a negative emotion as is the Rambam says things you stay away from is anger because in the end anger is something as somebody who is great a metaphor it's like swallowing a poison pill and expecting that person to die there's anger is just the illusion of control it pedals the idea that the more angry we become the more centered we are and really the more angry become we to spiral out of control yes please no doubt I I agree I agree but again first off there's different stages here you can recognize take take you know somebody who you think is a real strong example of a human being right he could see somebody who does something that's improper he's not necessarily going to dislike this person he'll think ah poor person let me help them let me educate them out of love let me try and build this person up it's not about liking or disliking the person does he entered into the equation why should I not like a person because their behavior is objectionable I mean think about I'm sorry no so I would say that that's not at or valid reason to dislike somebody because if now it may be a valid reason not to vane to do with the person but to dislike somebody merely because you disapprove of the behavior I would not say as a Toro value again doesn't mean necessarily want to be this person's best friend or have them be your babysitter but doesn't mean you have to dislike the person now pass that to become angry with the person because I would say that's because you're actually now identifying a trait within yourself that you actually have that this person manifests agree disagree or okay great here you play kidding me sir now okay I'm getting okay it's not your nature I knew that but so I appreciate that okay fine very good so moving along so I'm once again just be clear it's it's a person is is undoing nobody wakes up in the morning in spite of what you may be thinking with a pen and paper and say okay how can I make your life miserable let me do this I'll call without coming over s way right now nobody wants to be it there's a couple seats up here I'm sorry if you're standing you're standing there okay now person who is emotionally unwell can also be manipulative either passively meaning passive-aggressive or overtly and the reason is because look at the look at the mechanics here if I'm making good choices it's because I'm in control to some extent so when I lack self-respect it means I lack control the the fundamental Mita that every human being needs is to be able to say no to oneself to to rise above their nature and do what's right and spider what feels good looks good at the moment so if I am NOT able to control me I can't trust me which also makes me distressing whether people difficult obviously of relationship but to create the universe because that concept of trust becomes theoretical I have the concept of trust I don't trust me so I don't know how I could be trusting of others I don't know what others would trust me but also what happens is because I lack self-control I tried to control the lives of other people because I want to feel some traction in my life I want to come to life so if I can't make me do anything I want to make people do something now this is not me being mean or manipulative in a conscious level I promise you with rare exception the evil person this person is simply wants to feel crushed shove wants to feel important wants to gain some sort of traction in their lives so just in the interest of time and once again go to tour anytime and you'll see this broken down much more concisely much more expanded but let me just share with you for those of you that aren't going to have that opportunity to just look at a couple ways of what you can do to help feed and nourish this person and improve your relationship with this type of person if ultimately we've recognized that the difficult person it's just a person that really either through a lousy childhood or through their own poor choices or through neurochemical disorder just has low self-esteem and just inflated ego right you can help nourish that person you want to change your relationship with this person focus on what you can give not on what you can take walk away from every conversation seeing yourself what can I do to help this person be a better human being to help this person feel better about themselves now you're not gonna fix this person in an ideal world you will get them to a healthier point with visa vie because you care because you love because you invest because you give they will say ah maybe I'm worth something this person is giving all of these things to me this person is investing in me this person cares about me maybe there's something to me and there's like you know what see no one wants to invest in someone they don't like or they hate if you have a car that you don't like you bang it up you dent it you have something you don't like throw it on the floor if I don't like me what am I doing with me but if you who I respect and look up to treat me a certain way Wow maybe there's something to me now you got to keep on keep on because this person is just empty and they've got a cup with no bottom but at some point they're gonna realize wow you're not going anywhere now you don't approve everything that the person does but that doesn't mean acceptance this is true in all walks of life when where the relationship is if you love somebody that's unconditional you accept them the good the bad and the ugly that doesn't mean you approve of everything the person does all right acceptance says I accept you for who you are as you are yes please right so the bottom is the second cups because here's what happens at some points see because they are emotionally dented from childhood or from choice' from trauma tragedy whatever it is that that the bottom of the cup is either missing or it's got holes in it or whatever but they see themselves through the lens of other people as you continue to give and to love and to shower kindness and affection doesn't mean they run roughshod over you doesn't mean take advantage of you it means that you are there to love and accept them for who they are again doesn't mean you approve everything they do self esteem see the healthier we are it's easier to engage in these types of people because self-esteem allows to see a situation with crystal-clear clarity and respond appropriately that's self esteem we're not the religion that says turn the other cheek somebody smacks you you're generally going to smack them back but no one ever walked away from a conversation said you know what I wish I would have gotten angry I would have be able to handle myself so much better right self-esteem says I can see a situation if a person is unloading a bunch of venom and all its direct if I'm at a higher level I see they need to do that I could sit there I don't have an obligation to be a punching bag and if I'm going to be left prostrate in bed for three days because I'm so wiped out from this person then I have an obligation to walk away so not so easy to know all the time but if you can if you can well when you have more self-esteem you're able to have more compassion so you realize this person is just coming from a place of pain let me give you an example let's say you're walking along and someone bangs into you and you just turn around angry and bruised right and you turn and you see this person's in a wheelchair trying to get by where does your angle go poof why you still got that bruise the person still banged into and startled you tell me why you're no longer angry right yonis your your your neshama instantly connected with this person your ego wasn't engaged he didn't do it to you on purpose because he doesn't like you he doesn't respect you he's in a rush your time is an important as his he's like you think oh gosh right now don't you think people are walking around in emotional wheelchairs in front of you to left of you some of you actually looking at behind you there we all are emotionally handicapped to some degree some much worse than others we can't see their fragility their helplessness and they put on to the contrary a very good show some of them and they think wow this person really has it but it's nature's way of protecting the soft inside by a hard shell yes excellent question the question is look some ways manipulating and I'm choosing to say yes so here's here I'm so appreciative when it comes to manipulative people it doesn't mean by the way that they don't love us to whatever degree they're able to see what happens is the less healthy the person is they need to gain emotional traction we said that they want to be able to cause an effect so where can they get the most bang for their buck with the stranger or their state sibling child parent right that's because I know that you care which means then that that gives me again subconscious leverage that my behavior will cause something to happen so sometimes when you're dealing with difficult people you know you want to take the path of least resistance and it's sort of like the marionette numbers you've got the puppet and you know a child watching once again no offense well think that the puppet is doing all the actions and this person thinks that they're the marionette and you're the puppet but you'll be the marionette on top of him and you're really allowing him and summons and says to think he's getting away with it because quite frankly it makes your life easy and you are not there to fix them with the cure them in some cases it's self-defense so if you've got a difficult person in your life and by the way there's absolutely positively nothing wrong with laying down proper boundaries and borders so you have and desist is that the less healthy I am the more porous my boundaries are go right back to beret shoes when a Shem begins all of creation it begins to delineate and separate heavens earth water everything has a space because if we were allowed to bleed into other people's borders there would be no clear definition and there would be no difference and we would not be able to bring out our own uniqueness so in order to exist let me give an example if I asked you like what's your first name please sorry lie-bee-la I said Lavvy you know my properties over there there's the field do me a favor could you go ahead and watch it for me right what's the first question it asked me oh good yeah right right what are the boundaries what where am i standing with my shotgun right because if you don't know where I begin and you end you may cross over into my boundaries and a less healthier person is the more porous the boundaries they may be the kind of person that will come into your space or the kind of person who's a doormat mentality we said before doesn't give as much as they allow themselves to be robbed that's the kind of person who would never dream in a thousand years of taking a penny from that put a penny take a penny in little thing by the register that person will never take that penny they'll think oh they'll put in $50 before they take one penny the person that doesn't want to ask you for a simple favor is as unhealthy as a person that will ask you for a thousand favors and we sell ourselves that we don't want to bother you we're being humble we'll take care of ourselves right it's not it's it's not a relationship if I can't give to you and you can't give to me and we each receive in a healthy way so to answer your very very good question when you're dealing with the minute builds a person does it feed into it you have to ask yourself forget about feeding him fixing him curing him what's in your best interest if this person is in it for long haul then it does make sense sometimes and again broad brush to draw lines and simply to say I love you you're great I can't do this begin just draw out very clear lines and you'll find something very interesting they'll bang on that line for a while and then they're just gonna stop yeah so the more you sort of engage the more it's just like ah you eventually reached a point where you just sort of give in and say now sometimes it'll be you know what you want to do this okay fine you and you letting them get away with it only because it makes your life easy which I perfectly encouraged so you have to decide you know what makes the most sense what makes the most sense isn't necessarily curing the person it's what will allow for you to have a degree of emotional health where he's not or she is not impinge upon it okay very good question yes please of course they're gonna personalize it right what happens are you're always gonna personalize it because once again if this person is pushing boundaries they're going to by definition be sensitive and egocentric which means if you're doing it's not because you don't want to I see them you can't you don't want to because you don't care enough about me if you really loved me you would let me go ahead and borrow your car or let me steal your car yeah if you really did see this is what the person's thinking whatever you're doing it's because you don't love me enough and I know this because I'm not lovable so I know you don't love me enough because you can love someone was unlovable you see their logic I see your eyes you look like right so yes here's what you do and again it's as more asterisk than in the used car ad to go into this but this type of person it's I love you I'd like to be able to help you with this I'm sorry I can't I'm sorry I would love to you're right I wish I could I'm sorry I can't you shut down the conversation and draw a line now please understand this let's then with the following the we can just take questions you're not responsible for other people's emotions you're not you have responsibilities to people but you're not responsible for their emotions when somebody at look here's what happens you get put into that classic no-win somebody asked you of something that you don't want to do if you do it you're mad at you if you don't do it they're mad at you what do you do let me tell you what you do you are what you do by my tape series for 7995 here's what you do you have to ask yourself one solitary question and if you hop this it can be life transforming what is your vote is a sham what is your obligation in the situation it's either right or it's wrong Pirkei avos tells us get somebody get a friend the rabbi because when we're egos involved we're pieces of our own puzzle should I do it should I not do it speak to somebody objectively get itzá get advice from a wise competent person and then make a decision it's either right or it's wrong and understand this if it's right do it with simcha if it's right do it Pacifica if it's wrong say no guilt-free what bothers us is that we get bothered but bothers us is that we get annoyed and frustrated and angry and we allow this person to knock us off our emotional perch we know we're doing the right thing but it's like no I can't do it I'm sorry no I said I can't I got right Donna the more animated and angry you become the more annoyed you're gonna become with yourself even if you're doing the right thing our our job is to find that objectively right from wrong when you know what that answer is do it if it's the right thing to do do it the simpler do it with joy and if it's not equally do it and say say no I'd love to help you but I can't guilt-free because if you allow someone to take an advantage of Anthony you'll want to understand this if you allow someone to take advantage of you you're putting them over on Anna Vera you're making it easy for them you're not being a nice guy you're getting an affair and they're getting avere you allowing this person to abuse you and take advantage of you you want to sell yourself that you being a nice person a good person you want to convince yourself you know what this person really needs it I guess I'll go ahead and do it you know I have another kidney oh I can always go on dialysis take the second one a third one I don't know no if you allow someone to manipulate you and take advantage of you when the right thing to do is to draw a line and say no and by the way and you have the emotional well with all to say no I'm not talking about somebody that is just can't stand up to somebody and you shouldn't put yourself in a situation again it's a lot of variables that go into this and dealing with manipulative people and who they are and what the relationship is and it sometimes it makes sense to sort of disengage right if you're in the you know in a airplane and they always give that ubiquitous warning and the unlikely events right oxygen masks come down who do you put the mask on first you or your child yourself because if you no good to you you no good to anyone else if you no good to you you no good to anyone else you have to take care of yourself and then you can help everybody else so if you're able to do do and if you can't don't but don't think it's Hesed because you're doing something for somebody else yes it is when you give to somebody else something that they necessarily can't give to themselves and they need you and it's proper to give you could say yes you could say no and you do it because it's right not because you feel roped into it or manipulated yes please in the back and then we will just move forward guide a hundred percent there's there are definitely yeah the question is right very good question is where are my books and tapes available for sale okay original custom the question is is there ever a right time to end the relationship yes but I stayed a strayed from that area because I can't tell you in what type of relationship you should or should not and I can say that parents children siblings spouse a whole different category from co-worker next-door neighbor and so on and we have the we have a luxury there that we don't have in our personal relationships but having said that to is there's a Gomorrah that says that if you're in the desert or we learn out from this and there's one jug of water right you don't have an obligation to give it to the other person it's it's your life comes first so you have to make sure that your own emotional spiritual and physical health is preserved in a relationship that is a close relationship a family relationship boxing that person out is not always a good thing to do even if they're injurious to your mental health and the reason is because you know it's doctor Glaser found of reality therapy had a great line he says in my 40 years of psychiatric practice has become obvious to me that the people who are unwell in life are unable to get along well with those people that want to get along well with our relationships if you look at people that have good relationship with their parents with their siblings with the kid whatever they're generally healthy people and when they're less healthy with difficult relationships it's a chicken in the egg no doubts but the more solid our relationships are even with difficult people I guarantee you the healthier we're going to be it's only in the extreme case where you really have to box and X somebody out really out and for that you really need a competence rub and guidance to be able to tell you how to navigate that yes please okay excellent here the question the beautiful question so she understands she gets it intellectually but let's say somebody's done something to us that we simply can't get over so first off go back to number one everyone in life is Ashley our messenger from my Shem now this person didn't have to be the messenger to give you the message but they did it what is anger anger is the illusion of control and when you forgive all you're saying is you're no longer going to allow your anger to hurt you anymore right forget about this person you may not want anything to do with this person in some cases the relationship is done maybe the person is even dead when you forgive it's not about the relationship it's about you it's about your letting go of the pain right now if you choose to engage this person again and it's highly different but we make the mistake of thinking that forgiveness is about putting the past behind us forgiving doesn't mean forgetting forgiving it means acknowledging what that person does did they're a messenger it was for whatever reason for your good and for your growth and you're not going to let your own anger consume you any more bad okay it's a good fair question it might be more intricate than we can really give the proper time to but what you're describing is a situation that unfolds in all of our lives to different degrees we all have these difficult people that aren't going anywhere they've done something to us and we're trying to let go and we generally pretty much take the high road but sometimes we'll give that little dig back right join the human race that is me that's you that's everybody but I would suggest is that the less again something happens take it personally you become upset something happens don't think that so let me ask you a question oh yeah we will want me to help you get over your hang with this person in 60 seconds okay fine ready for this khoka I want to tell you something that you never knew before what this person did to you there was a gun to this person's head now this person this the person that held the gun to that this person's head said I want you to know something you need to do this to you and this person had tears I don't want to do is this person I can't do this person how can I hurt my friend whoever it is up the gun is to your head I want to do it and you can't say a word about it you have to go ahead and do it so this person just had a gun to their head and they did what they did are you still angry with that person why not okay fine let me ask you a question is there anyone in your life that you would willingly hurt so why do you do it it's something called attribution error in psychology pretty much says that mistakes that people make they did it on purpose makes mistakes we make is because right right now don't you even I think you know I I didn't expect to dissipate hanging on sixty Seconds but don't you just feel differently about it now it's that interesting thing though okay again we have guns to our head we don't want to hurt other people we do it because either we become not certified our own equal takes over and we regret it and if we don't regret it then we're really sick in which case we even deserve more empathy yes please yeah yeah yeah look unfortunately a family muffle okis is something that is so disturbing if you think about the of its high and heritage foundation you know they do the attention about video in this past one I did I'm at rawness and and I was talking about the idea about how much anger we walk around with and how our relationship would just fundamentally change think in your own lives of somebody who you just if you just call them up and said you're right I'm wrong I'm sorry I'm sorry you're right whether it's whether you warm I'm sorry like you just instantly just seal that and again the relationship is one thing you yourself you're not walking around with that so I encourage you just in your own lives just begin to make those little repairs and just it's it's so simple but what part of us doesn't want to say I'm sorry I'm wrong the the ego and it's it's sheer lunacy there's no other word for it how much pain we walk around because we won't simply say I'm sorry you're right I'm wrong or forgive me what I did to you was was inexcusable I'm sorry and humble ourselves we would see we would be so much more whole healthy and when a person is yes part of themselves because they're not willing to do what they know they need to do now we're not responsible other people's actions if they want to spew negativity spew anger spew all these things you don't have to put yourself in harm's way but I encourage you to do what you can in your own dollar Thomas right once again a fine question but since we're way over time and I can't give it the attention deserves but we can have a conversation with it as soon as we end let me I'll take questions go ahead please yeah yeah yeah generally what you want to do is you want to humanize yourself as much as possible and do you humanize yourself and that becomes you know open up to this person whatever degree is appropriate humble yourself don't what happens as we engage in self enhancement behavior we want to show the people how great and wonderful we are the more we do it we think the more they'll like us but really we just turn them the other way because they're ready jealous and now we even that much more pick out picture-perfect so try humanizing yourself talk about your own issues your stuff your frailties your vulnerabilities and it helps to sort of just take your ego out when your ego goes out their ego goes out and you're able to connect ok let me thank you all very much for coming and for listening thank you