Zevachim 42

Today's d is me and we will begin two lines from the bad of so in the middle of segueed to one of the more lumpicious sug and that is the suga of m or infagland and the sugi began with a mish was M the carbon which we know contained two components. There was the and there was and he had piggle during one not during the other. says the in order for a to have a pickle during the of the he would have to have the during the entire both components both the and the meaning because if he would only have the pigle while he's being the or while he's being That in of itself wouldn't be enough. Whereas holds because hold stating that said don't think that is because he not even agrees. How could a mayor say it's talking about where the pickle that he had was in the first and once he establishes the first half a as being done with a piggle even if the second part of the he doesn't dole he does it quote unquote but it's for that reason it's as if the entire was done with a makle. But in terms of lumag no even we're making an that he first had once you start doing an even if later you resume it without the pigle he had this of way back when but the bottom line is the beer in that is whether matter that everybody holds a matter. It's still going to be all of it's because being that you started doing the with we're going to see in the that this matter has implications in other as well is discussing the of the two matters are the and the of the but a more relevant case when you're learning is if the head Pickle during one of the reco one of the of a car. Accord by a carbon that was brought according to all carbon and according to all with the exception of the all you have to do is once the is or as we saw in the right in the beginning of per you have to when you learn these there each in it of itself As a result, each should be treated as aim. So you'd have the same sh over there if the was during one of the one of the at first glance it would seem to be but according to even would hold it wouldn't be unless it was the first one. If it's the first one then you have this of that's the very important introduction to this morning's daff. Either way, the entire daff is going to discuss this begins with when is it true that if a had a ple during one that's enough for it to make the carbon that's if the was of a carbon whose dam goes on the but had during one of a carbon And that goes on. One of we'll see what that means. One of but one of the 43 that were done. One of the 11 that were brought with the or one of the 11 that were done with the would be if he had whether it was the first, the second or the third. Again, we'll see in a moment what that means. in it's going to be the is not going to be so present and this is going to be a big ones beer and so first what's the so the background you need for the is that oner there were 43 that were done there were two carbon that the kod used to bring on yum kipper whose dam went on the kapi they were two of the that we spoke about earlier in the week. the that's the not the one that went and the would take from the dham and the and it would spritz there were four sets of you have to know this in order to understand the d that were done with the dham and the dam the would take from the dhamar do eight by the as he would repeat the same exact with the so 8 plus 8 back arithmetic take a 16. So there was 16 that were done. Then there were another 16 a set of eight and a set of eight that were done on so you have 16 plus 16 that's 32. Then the would take the dham he would miss it and do four on the four caro of the 32 + 4 is 36. Then the terrorist says you should take again from the mixture of the dam and spritz seven times which we understand means the top of the he would remove the find a good clean spot and do another seven. So it's 16 + 16 + 4 + 7 the number you get is 43. But the 43 aois were made up of four sets of azo. Theo that were done bhabad 16 of them. Eight with the dham eight with the damasar. Another 16 that were done again made up of two sets of eight. Eight with the dham of the damasar. Then there were four that were done on the countness of the a regular traditional like we're done with all and then you had the seven that were done on the gag of the says the that this is during one it creates a pigle that's only true but and gives three examples the 43 that were done and the 11 that were done with the 11 that were done. Let's focus on the 43 that were done. We'll pick that very important. What does mean during all 16 of the or during all 16 of the that were done all four that were done on the four meaning are the first three sets of What's the beer hold? What do you see? Let's be whether it was the first, the second or the third. Now holds. It doesn't matter if it was the first, the second or the third. First set, second set, third set. It doesn't matter at the end of the day that says that even is because being that he was mafle first in the and it was that he was it doesn't matter that he didn't have a pickle when he was then why if he was bish or is it a pickle I understand if he had a pickle so then for the we're going to But didn't the say and the now is going to give three to try to answer this question. We have to say it's not talking about in the case of had while he was doing the of the of the kindness because that would be a question of even a mayor holds and then afterwards it was he lost and the damasar. So what do you do? You bring another p and bring another and you start again from where you're up to. Now it's a should you start from the this you're up to or do you have to begin the set all over again? Let's say it was nishb after the fifth ho in one of the respective sets. So that's a sh but let's keep the case simple. It's talking about after you completed a set nowad. So what are you going to do? You're going to bring a new a new par a new and you're going to do that all over again. is that if the god had avo the first part there the in the is going to be a and even though technically the right now is is only part of the because it's going to end up that you're doing the with two different or two different but each is considered says the and it's over there that is going to hold that it's going to be a pigle It's not a classic one versus that's a question of but one of two is that ordinarily is looked at as a for so when we say we don't mean we don't even mean sets of what we mean the first the second the third in the event that there were multiple but so why argue meaning you're telling me there a mayor also say matter I did the argue he'll tell me this we understand we understand but nobody holds you have to make it we're talking about which is not okay so there's no ra that ever argued with that my time it's a whole It's not of this. Who is this? It's going to all these different types of what type of so we're going to have to wait for to see the details. But one so if someone's anything that was supposed to be burned on the How much does he have to be? So it's really you have to be of the entire thing. So what do you see from there? that even though ordinarily is considered but when it comes to you need to be the so theor is assuming that according to that the requires not just but the entire so maybe as it relates to of pigle would apply the same principle that it's not enough to do an avoid but you need to do an entire avoid thus one of two in the event that you needed is to bring a carbon wouldn't be considered an if one of two wouldn't be considered wouldn't be so the argue and hold you can't be in one of the two that says that if you that if you do one of you are and even though one you would think would be the equivalent of aas of But here it's different. And what's the basis for it? How did know that it's not because another rebel? He felt it had to be that way in order to reconcile this rebel with a different rebel. Now that other rebel is we mentioned earlier what happens if the middle doing the let's talk about the he loses the blood simply. He just can't use it anymore. He just doesn't have anymore to use. So you bring another carbon. So the question is you have to start all over again. So the say you start from the beginning of the set that you were up to. So if you're middle doing the of you start from the beginning of was middle doing the of the you start from the beginning of the argu whatever you're up to that's where you start from. So let's say there's one left. There's one he did 42 out of the 43. You bring a power you bring a saw you miss it together. You do that one. That's so according to it comes out it's possible to bring a whole carbon just for one that means one is if one is one is going to be so how can you sh over here the same that holds that if you not said holds that if you do one why because you could do a for one oh that means if Because you could do a for what does it tell you about the is definitely so even though it's true there is a revel that holds that there's a for and it relates to the hold and maybe it should relate to as well but you can't because said that that's even when it comes to certainly when it it comes to so the bottom line is isn't this then that mentions with regards to in the context of the that is not pickled. Isn't that the same? But if that's the case at the very least we have that supports the understanding in the that it is not like said that even mayor holds the mayor is that's the case how do you understand I understand but what does it mean you have to say that what the Bryce over there was discussing was when had then he was quiet. It's not talking about either. There had to have been a pickle. If there was no pickle, we're out of business. Then it's dead on arrival. It's just so why are we talking about just say and and you weren't? What's so the way you read it is you were I would have thought who it's true holds I know that from the but maybe this is worse from the fact that the had another pickle during the what does it sound like it sounds like he wants to be not because then he was quiet and then he wants to be says yeah so it's true. But that's if he was shy throughout after he had the original mash. But if you have a mash piggle, then you're then you have another mash pickle. Isn't it mash that the one time you were you specifically were being you're coming to say that I don't want the so maybe that should be anam that there is a is not said that would be that would work if that's what the price said it doesn't say it says pigel bish What it should have said was means what the says not either or but all three and that's what B means what's the is you and that's a good deal because they didn't say anything about the re there was the fourth set what was the fourth set I would have that that either you should have been in all four or you should have been in one. So the fact that you were in three shows that there's no way. So you mean to be in in what you so that's what I would have thought. So I would have thought that if a mayor holds and the only time a mayor holds a possible pickle if you had a pickle part of is where there's a maybe in this case from the fact that you keep on repeating the that's you don't really want to rely on the again it's like that's but again is but the says that too would work if that's what the price said It's not what the Bry says. The Bry says, but rather says the Gmorra, I hear. Bottom line is the Gumar doesn't seem to be that impressed with this. We do have so the gummor is going to digress not digress but go into the kishkas a little bit more of the katim with a real shakashi's next 10 lines from the here is then we're going to resume this discussion of what exactly in that says but before we do that there's a very important rash here in the rashi repeats it twice but once he says it as clearly as he can possibly We say and that is in the context of discussing it's smack in the middle of the base. Every time you find the idea of say it means not that the thought a bad thought but he actually spoke. He said something that he wasn't supposed to say. Rashi says it again on the bottom of it's four lines from the bottom. This last we learned he said it with his lips meaning he wasn't just thinking it. He was actually talking it throughout literally the first we learned when we started was and we mentioned in the right in the bottom says that I discussed from all places whether when you say the word in do you mean he was thinking the was thinking pigle he was thinking all the bad or he actually said it with his mouth doesn't tell you what he comes up with over there but says not but it's here on and again this is really ground zero for this discussion it's where says clearly the truth is says it in as well if you take a look at that sends you to it's says the same thing over So the both is stating that we've spoken this out already brings the three. One of the three says from the har the amount of there is from the ra said things and didn't say things is even more sometimes so from the says I mean the just quoting I mean how many times does the gum refer to these as say if body has that hold says even going to get but the bottom line is the bottom line says that did not hold like she did not hold like and he held that you don't have to be just something interesting light and that is so he's discussing the mitzvah of so we know that interestingly the brings the so what's drum roll says the I don't have it in front of me but I think the Russian goes something like this so I mean the idea of the is to clarify the it's still a little bit unclear some say no some say yeah and that's the okay what's the that's some say yeah And some say no the price can understand that means the latter thing that was mentioned by the for sure that's why brings the primad but the the saying that if a person did a mitzvah and he's not sure if he had do the mitzvah again don't make another do the mitzvah again because but then again the presented it like maybe it's only the so as it relates to doing the mitzvah you do the mitzvah over again as it relates to the maybe over there at the end of mitzvah it's you want to look it up I always had a suffic before you do a mitzvah you're about to eat matzah you have to have in mind that I'm about to be mitzvah of the matzah Maybe that's not enough. Maybe you actually have to say it out. Maybe you have to say so is it or no? Maybe is not enough. Maybe you actually need a says the I think it's totally in. So you're learning matzah he sends you literally to the depths. This is prime real estate and say throws you right into when you're learning doesn't mean one way say another way. Bottom line is is we have a whether he says says I think and he doesn't come off of it. He says I hope that it's going to be in that if means so you see there's so as it relates to the means but if you hold it it's not enough you actually have to speak it out as it relates to the it's going to be the same exact way there's a very very well-known chuva from the for the is from the most chu it's madana it's sim and and the title of the chuva is it's a controversial chuva but it's a it's a very very well-known cha was asked by the whether the minute that he's saying that people before the mitzvah most notably but other mitzvah as well they say should you say the or should you not say so I'll tell you the ending and who the hell you shouldn't say and he was pretty sharp about it but the and you can sh beyond my prior but in terms of the the actual chuva so the sha felt it seems like the place that he was coming from was that he argued that there's an Indian of mitzvah and being that there's an Indian it's not enough to just think that I'm about to be the mitzvah of whatever mitzvah I'm about to be you should say it it should be with a with a whole and a whole and a and make sure that your are focused in the right direction before you go ahead and That was the the context that the was that the was coming from and one of the arguments that the made tonight was from a get is that when a cyher sits down to write a get he has to make sure that he writes the the get and it's that the it's not enough that the thinks the cipher is actually supposed to say a furish that he's writing the gish lot of the gur that talk about the idea of gerish is talks about what So if you're supposed to say it's very much that he did that if you're supposed to say it by anytime or it's something that you should go ahead and you should say is that I completely completely disagree. It's true. I get this but as it relates doing a mitzvah it's going to be different. He says if you want a for mitzvah the is not where the gum says when it comes to is stomach not only you remember he said that even though even though the six of that is supposed to have when he does the but don't have the why because if you're going to think you know what's going to happen you're going to end up thinking and you're gonna end up messing it up It's your that's the only way to mess up this situation. like this you're not going to end up coming to a so I think are not where the is not and you need to create over here the isma there's nothing to talk about now although but at the same time there is a see he says I hear but I want to balance this is the with the idea expressed which is a little bit of a slippery slope. So to say that you have to have I agree it seems to be the but at the same time to go over the top with the now already you're infringing on that don't think too much because you may end up going and thinking listen to this line he says we're worried by a carbon not to Even though certainly when it comes to it's unbelievable the shiny people when they have and you know you can you can make a wrong turn somewhere and it could be problems. says don't go over the top. He says they will what needs to be done and whatever they told you to do that you do. Anything else don't go crazy. You're going to start thinking you're going to think you don't know where you're going to end up. Bottom line is he says you have to do the bare minimum. So what's the bare minimum? The fears it's like this. He says the beer minima a mitzvah that has a side of a just have when you're making the so what does that mean you don't you just made a you obligation of you have when you did the if you didn't have when you did the mitzvah you're not here then you didn't have I don't know what to say but says if you make a you know slowly and loud and clear and then you're done you don't have to do anything what about a bra that does What about a mitzvah doesn't have a say? I say that's what he says. Bottom line is says that there should be an element of he says it clearly but at the same time more than he wasn't with either way just a little bit of light ra then we'll get into some intense raid pigle said pigle of which past this is referring to and that's this or one of the pickle is the only time if you eat from a carbon that had pickle during the one is if all the were brought meaning all the let's say has and they do the They never did this and then somebody eats from the of this that it's not going to be the or he's not going to be the only time of is the but all the mater in order to have a carbon pigle You also have to bring all the command once the had during one of the sets of the let's pick the first one he did the with piggle at that point the dam becomes ple once the dam becomes ple when the ken does the next set of by the and on the and then on the gaga it's as if spritzing water. So what's the cash is you don't have. So the is asking a very very very intense question that has a lot of lumpness intermingled with it. But very very simply what the is saying is like this is that in order for to be pig it's not enough that the client had during one of the you need to do all the as well. So if the and they didn't do there's no the possible they didn't do the point is there's no if somebody eats from the flesh of this carbon he's not going to be how do I know that in order for carbon to beer you need a in order for carbon to be piggle it's like a carbon pigle you need the as well now the end says every time you have a carbon pigle it's a disaster it's a catch 22 too. It's it's why because if you need to do four avoid in order for a carbon to be a carbon pickle and by definition in order for carbon to be a carbon pickle you have to have a during one of the then how could you ever have a carbon pickle because when you do the is not a if the is not a then you could do the but you're not going to have because you didn't have four the you did with the pigle is always not going to be an So how do you it how do you have it? How's it possible to have a that in order for a carbon to be pigled? You need that doesn't make any sense. In order for the to be done, you think you need four. So if I need four, I can't have a pickle. But if I don't have a pickle, it's obviously not pickle. So you tell me the only time a carbon is pickle is if you had a and you did four. It doesn't make sense, right? So what do you have to say? Rashi speaks this out. You have to say that it's true in theory. It doesn't make sense. It's the is that if one of the were done with I don't care about that counts. It's as if it was done. I just need the other I didn't have the pickle for those should be. So if I had and then I do a good I look at it as if the carbon was brought with four good avoidance. I one of them wasn't good. It's true. But that's the cost of a pickle. Or if the makavas pickle was the cause of a pickle. That's all true. If the entire avoid was done with a mach. But let's say part of the was done with a mash piggle and part of a wasn't done in piggle to tell me in this of that you can count ano that's partially piggle and partially not that for some reason is not willing to accept. So I'm willing to accept if the entire was done. So that somehow counts towards the sauce. So if I match it with a good it's going to be a carbon pickle but if only part of an such as the oner that were done but not the ones that were done on the etc etc over there now I have a mix that was done a mix that wasn't done to combine those two that I'm not willing to do is whatever that's is that there's a concept that I could have a makabas pickle during one set and not have a makabas pickle during another set and that's going to be enough to establish a pickle is the I hear it in the lumbness of I could accept that that's something I can live with but if that you need fuller to take an avoid that's not pickle and count it towards the something I'm not willing to do an entire that's the pickle But a partial that I'm not willing to do either way. Whatever the exact lumbus is answer you have to say is only where you had a special or a special not both or a special for the of the you had the being that it was true but it was par doesn't bother me that I'm combining and merging that was done with that was not ple it's over there that it's going to be okay which in short means says I don't hear the kasha what's he telling me that the pickle doesn't so if the whole pickle wouldn't stare it why if the was pickle sure to stare it either way but digresses for about 12 seconds. 43 I thought there is someone that says 47 whether the used to mix the dama and the before he did the or after he did the on the if he mixed it before. So it's 16 + 16 + 4 + 7 that's 42. If he mixed it afterwards, that means he would separately do haz on the from the dham and from the damas. So it's an additional four. It's 16 + 16 plus 4 plus 4. 16 + 16 + 8 + 7. If you do the math, you're going to end up with 47. There's another that says not 43, not 47, 48. happens. So, so counts as an as if it counts as it's not going to be 47. It's going to really be 48. Second returning to the of began. It sounded like regarding it's not because but rather it's talking about you first had and it's related to when is it true that if you had a pickle during the that's if it was during an entire summit such as that's the equivalent of or but when it comes to this is again it's the same which this means But theor says this would seem to be checkmate. The addresses both scenarios whether you were now first they were then they were so if you did the piggle and then you were so that's but if you and then you it's just the opposite. So then it comes you don't have the mayor holds must be edit the price doesn't mean that if you were quiet and then you were it means if you quiet but you had already done the lavina so you did the lavina first and you did the lavina with a mv pickle then if you think it's going to be enough so it's possible to have a pigle going to a mayor if the pigle was not but only if the was done first but the says it's a very nice but it doesn't work for two reasons then that's it's the ratio meaning it's the same case you it's not what the says afterwards you had the says either way before we end just can't go away from this without speaking out a little bit of so we have here or not in a classic but in a classic he would be the according to the holdag if a was doing the and he had a during one of the that were done or during the of the it was a let's say a case is going to pass. So what would be the do you say that just like a so it's the same thing if you can't have a pigle during then should be the same thing says maybe there's a between piggle and says there's a there's a very lishik but before we here rem just a little bit of and that is something that we've spoken at already a few times that is that there's a fundamental difference between the way mechanically piggle works and meaning if you ask the man on the street what is going to tell you you're doing one of the and you had all the other it's Right? That's what he's going to tell you. If you ask what's going to say something very similar, you were doing one of the and you had a mind to either eat the do or they're both pickle. If it's the becomes really really bad, you can't eat it. If you EAT IT IF IT'S PICKLE, but there's not going to be a of course, right? That's the answer. So very similar. you're doing one of the in one case in the other case of that's all true but at the same time there's a fundamental difference between why pass and why pass the as it relates to is I'm doing an I'm doing one of the that need to be done in order for this carbon to be in order for the carbon to get to that he's trying to get out of the carbon that he's bringing. That's what makes up the of a carbon. As a result, if you had a bad during one of those, the carbons are going to be a problem. The pickle has nothing to do with the fact that you during one of the as it relates to but rather is during the is related to the secondary role that the plays and that is that in addition to the that was done with every carbon there the bum depending on what type of carbon it was mitzvah not mitzvah was nights raid. There were other mitzvah that were done together with the car. In order for the claim to eat the boss or in order to be the in order to be able to do you needed to do the were m they were the and if you didn't do the ate the big it's an it's not something you're allowed to do the will of they will matter that means that play two roles on the one hand At the same time they're also m the pig is being while I'm doing a m about the thing that I'm about to be m and say that this thing that's right now is awesome that I'm about to be m that I'm doing when it becomes I'm going to manipulate it in a way that's wrong. I'm going to eat it. I'm going to be that's but the the point that we need to focus on right now is that I'm not being yeah but that's not the punch line. The punch line is I'm being I'm doing something that's boss and I'm thinking about the boss. I'm doing something that's thinking about happens happens. It's the same context, the same backdrop. The story begins in the same place. high. It's a different emphasis, a different punchline. So is related to the pigle is related to the mat. Now how do we know that it's so many gumaras and if you look out for it you'll see it a million times. Number one, the Gmorra says that when you when could you be that's not what it says doesn't say we're talking about the says the only time something a carbon becomes pigle is if you do all the but it doesn't say you have to do all the we just said right if you don't complete the is no what's the We just learned I'll tell you a good one. The Gomorrah says in the that if a has while he's doing his it's not. So the only time you can have a mash is piggle is if the that you're having is happening at the time that you're doing a m because related it's related to the mon if that's the case I can tell you I can tell you that the only time you find the m is in he says it could be so if I That's not and being that is not where the where what I need is a matter there it's going to be a problem. So as it relates to where I need a but when it relates to I don't need a m what do I need? I need an I need a I need a consider. So it says right here that it's true. But when it comes to there is going to be a concept that one of the it's going to be it's going to pass the cover says that it's that even that argue with that makes a big deal. It sounds like just but there's still going to be it's going to be a problem. The carbon is going to be possible. Why is the carbon possible? Says it's only says that I think that the is because it's because being that the whole of is only true by it's not true. So it's and he says something brilliant beyond the scope of what we do to answer. But the bottom line is that's remin