Young Love: an interview with Rabbi Benzion Klatzko

if you could start out by telling me uh your name and a little bit what you do sure so my name has been seoncladsko and i do a few things i am the national director for college outreach or jewish life in north america so that's the first thing i travel the country and i also have a website called shabbat.com that places people for shabbat all over the globe and it makes you know help facilitates dating and um and all sorts of other all sorts of other things we do with the big shuttle phone each week and um pretty much then i collect art sounds good um so i'd like to talk to you specifically a little bit about dating and marriage in the orthodox community specifically marriage do you think that orthodox people um face challenges that other cultures might not and if so why uh yeah every culture based on how they're brought up face different challenges uh in orthodoxy i would say great challenge is that since uh there's no dating outside of marriage so it takes a there's a little bit of a learning curve to know how to relate the the uh into the opposite sex on the other hand there's this freshness where you're not changing you don't have all these memories of breakups and being dumped so it's a disadvantage and an advantage at the same time it's sort of a virgin on every level right so um we'll talk about both sides of it the positive and the negative so you know let's start with positive how do you have you specifically seen any examples of how it manifests itself positively like maybe from your own experience or your kids or people you know oh yeah without a doubt when i counsel uh when i counsel singles we're about to get married and you just got married sometimes i i forget how a little experience they have like flabbergasted like you don't like abc's but they pick it up right away but what's an example of something that they might not know i mean sometimes bedroom mannerisms are um are have to be learned you know the the abcs of how to court how to woo um each other um there's this familiarity that the orthodox community has that certainly each person has with each other regardless of the sex so everyone's almost a friend before you even met them so the goal is that she shouldn't be your friend or you shouldn't be your friend should be something much more than that so that magical word it's sort of sort of an elusive word romance what is romance is it a box of chocolates and a red heart uh whitman chocolates these could be called is it all about the whitman chocolates is it about our song um or our dance the first song where we dance together probably not um since there's not a lot of premarital dating where dave were not married so they don't have all those first you know the first kiss and the first song the first it's more very purpose-driven who is this person and it's not business like without a doubt there's love in this attraction but it's very goal-oriented so great advantages you're you're gonna have a much lower uh degree of um separation and divorce uh marriages are going to they're gonna they're gonna overcome the speed bumps that sort of derail other marriages simply because you don't have memories of you know you know she kisses great but certainly not as good as the other girl he has got with her her bedroom aneurysms aren't the same and technique this is this is your first this is your your only and um everything is new and fresh and exciting and awkward i like that you said awkward can you tell us some i guess we we spoke about advantages some clear disadvantages or maybe awkwardness or difficulties that you've helped people overcome or that you've observed yeah i mean part of it is sort of like the language of love you know languages of love so uh like i remember it took me years to really believe that women like chocolates i i literally photos and cliche like i finally realized you know what they do it's real and now whenever i go out and go to the fancy charcoal places and my wife's i just light up it was like sushi honestly she loves a lot of chocolate um sort of these kind of wooing romantic gestures it's a disadvantage if you've never done it before and maybe just to just to be able to express love in uh various different ways even even verbally uh more than just i love you um you can fine it's sort of interesting when you um if you've ever ever been around orthodox couples that have been married a while and they've learned sort of the sort of the secular languages of love so a few years you have to eavesdrop and you hear this very orthodox guy call his wife baby and and that stuff happens and you're not like you look at the guy like you didn't expect that to come out of his mouth but he sort of learned the language you love you know baby or oh you look hot like you wouldn't expect this tire with a beer to take just wipe the word hot um but eventually i think you aren't happy where do you think they learned it from who teaches them i don't know they think if she books in the library they ask their friends ask the rabbi so are the rabbis telling them things like that or the rabbis advising you like that the reactors are very realistic um they're just a point of reference so the rabbis will tell the the guy who grows before they get married you know you may want to do this this one's called foreplay step one step two and four play it's all so theoretical and you have to sort of live it and they haven't been doing it since they were 15 or 16 it's it's new so in a way it's sort of cute it's sweet it's sweet because it's real and um it didn't begin when you were immature you're mature so when you call someone honey it's not a play of you're not trying to be the a player but you know she's my honey he's my army he's my baby so um it's sort of i remember there was a movie many years ago about this amish guy who gets out of amish town and ends up sort of learning all these things in rapid fire fashion and it was so sweet in a way how he was able to say things that people sort of throw out with uh you know without you know very casually not thinking and it's so sweet kind of from someone who's so sincere and so loving so there's an innocence a real innocence very nice and it sounds like maybe both parties or maybe especially the woman doesn't even know to demand certain things like that you might know about in society like you should be calling me honey all the time she's just is that right right a lot of the stigmas and the handcuffs that secular society has the orthodox world doesn't have because one of one of the one of the keys to living a total lifestyle orthodox jews to minimize pettiness and things that are not important or in hebrew and say not questions it's not important so the world gets really hooked up what kind of flowers did she send there were there roses were there 12 were there six were they in the past that there was a company that was a ribbon what color was it was it pink is that breast cancer awareness was it yellow what exactly yeah i remember personally i remember when we were engaged my husband my you know fiance at the time picked a flower it was basically like a weed like a dandelion from the grass and he gave it to me and it was just such a thrill like i i i couldn't believe what was happening you know because it's it's at the end of the day you know they actually it's one more one we'll just get a little intellectual you know there comes a point where you have to stop testing your spouse it's not trusting your spouse loves you and one of the handcuffs of society is you're always being tested you forgot my birthday you didn't you know last minute anniversary you didn't just internet it's improved that your love is not revealed everything is a test within orthodox judaism you're not always hesitant right you can prove your love and then begin the game right you can't begin the game of life while you're always you know doing testing one two three four do you love me i don't even have enough you didn't say it when we end this conversation right so that must mean petty hey give me chocolate give me money right money to buy a paperless cleaning lady that's what you want so do you think jewish people are a little more practical you gave me money to pay for the cleaning lady so i'm happy yeah yeah yeah much much more i mean i mean it's hard to generalize obviously um and some you know there is a concept of the sentiment and the effort and the love but that that doesn't have to show on a credit card it could be writing a poem on a on an american greetings card and a walmart card that does the same thing and um i had brother-in-laws who used to make arts and crafts it was the cutest thing here are these yeshiva comedic students uh they're rabbis and they're there with elmer's glue and the little scissors and they're cutting out little hearts and i'm thinking what are you doing you just spent an hour and they would say you know what it means a lot to them and whatever you just make a diorama little bog shoe boxes and make little figures of love and and it's so unexpected probably if someone would see maybe a rabbi with a long beard and a black coat cutting out little paper hearts yeah so it sounds like there's there's a lot more maybe true love maybe even romance than an outsider would think when he sees orthodox marriages i believe so i i believe when the outsider looks at the insider they're looking at three secular eyes of testing one two three four and if they see something oh no the guy won't bed or the lady or he didn't do this or she didn't do that that means that they will doubt each other great each other and and that's so silly because i just look into the eyes of i don't trust it's a proven proven proven it's proven in so many ways um so many different ways um you know there are a lot of women especially in the world who the way the husband proves that he loves her is if when he comes home and spend time with the kids and so on if he goes out to learn torah that actually is a proof of love it's the why you saying i wanted to marry a torah scholar you went to work you have to go to work but prove to me that my soul mate for eternity is still as a spiritual bank and still still spirituality that that shows me that you love me that's a consonant so out there left field that you can't even describe it it's a you know as building a house of spirituality that's love very nice um now i want to ask you a little bit about some of the harder things about some of the challenges you have two people maybe they dated for a month or so maybe now it's three months later and and they're living together talk to me a little bit in terms of the issues that they face not the rosy stuff but but really what are some very prominent challenges and also just to give you some ideas um how they manage in terms of personality differences maybe money issues maybe in-laws like how do two almost total strangers work it out and what's hard for them there are some of the same issues that every marriage has um respect listening understanding feedback and what one of the things that sort of make it more difficult is uh number one there are periods in the month where the husband and wife aren't they're not together they don't touch the evangelical period during that that time so all of the shortcuts that the secular world has where if somebody's feeling insecure or shaken you could draw the person close and to give them a hug and a kiss and say it's okay i'm sorry right those those physical manifestations of affection you can't use them during almost half of the month so what that really means is we have to become a developed person very quickly to learn how to convey remorse and convey respect and love and understanding purely on a um interpersonal basis without the shortcut of touch and and we don't touch incredibly powerful so for example if some if one of the couples gets annoyed or angry at each other um so what does one do so within judaism there is a concept of you can't get so angry you can't get you're not allowed oh you know i'll give you an example for myself i'm married now almost 26 years i've never raised my voice my wife and twice my kids never heard me scream and we have rules and one of the reasons that we have the rules we set up rules about marriage our first year we call them the ten commandments of marriage and those ten are sacrosanct we don't touch them um we're i'm not sarcastic with neither of us one of the rules aren't don't blame no blame and if and without those rules so then within judaism you know we're a a belief that does agree with personal responsibility and that can make it difficult personal responsibility well when you're married to somebody who perhaps messes up not brands but does because they're a human being so that personal responsibility and those obligations can kick in and you know you can become the teacher that stern authoritative figure that is upset or disappointed and have to say no you know my wife or my husband is not my student they need to know that i support them even when they mess up and even when they get fired or even when they burn the roast or whatever it is i love them and it's sort of like pushing that concept personal responsibility aside and saying that our love is more important than the mess and then that something that that really so i think it's a little more difficult within the religious community just overcoming uh those kind of that kind of a tightness and just letting loose uh you know maybe part of that is just in general we live very purposeful and meaningful lives uh within the secular world there you know there's a concept of let's drink your two martinis and left loose and go nuts and let our hair down and that's a little bit tough in a in a religious union where people are not used to letting their guard down and i mean eventually they do and um eventually they learn to trust that the other person was not going to judge them and again that that's part of the issue you know you because we live purposeful lives and we we try to make sure that each thing we do is is full of meaning and and is there to to allow us to grow um we're afraid if i act a certain way or for example uh if my wife makes me sick and i'm not thrilled with that suffering am i gonna say something well maybe i won't because they don't sound petty what about like a stage but like what about like a steak with lots of mashed potatoes lots of gravy and well she will she look at me and say wow this guy's materials right and i have to trust that my spouse will understand that i'm a human being i mean you know in a a bedroom is called the holy of holies the most sanctity that's where life is created and in order to be real you want to be able to uh be goofy and be inappropriate and you know all those things that that couples want to be just uh just to to be funny and to set the mood and you know be a little sexy and you want to be able to feel confident that you could then leave the bedroom and put on your spiritual cap and be devout and be a person of growth and not be judged by your inappropriateness uh in the bedroom and it's it's like going from hot to cold so you know i think the world struggles with this so if a person absolutely goofy and ridiculous and inappropriate they may just take that with them and that becomes their persona we don't have that luxury nor do we want it we don't want that we want to be looked at the serious thinking devout purposeful people but we want to come in the bedroom and be ridiculous and inappropriate and just lose secrecy and not be judged and that's something that a young couple really struggling but they they find their way they push the envelope each day a little bit more right i was going to say how especially to a secular person it must seem very wondrous how do two people who have never touched each other before or touched anyone before all of a sudden go and you know nine months later they're having a baby how did they figure that out so i'll tell you what my father told me my father gave me a beautiful piece of advice he said on the first night when you're married say the following verse from the torah he said i said it and it helped my marriage he says you should say it'll help you and i actually did it and i convey it to other people it says in genesis and adam knew his wife and what does that mean to know somebody so the biblical knowing of course is involves intercourse sexuality but it's more than just the deed but it's getting to know them it's quite getting to know their curves it's getting to know their their sets and spots on their body that's knowing that's why it's called in the bible knowing that knowing means you're supposed to have the knowledge of who that person is physically and therefore you know when my first night when we got married i said victoria says adam that even got to know her i'd like to get to know you what are you about and and very gently i was able to um approach my wife and get to know her and she felt comfortable and she told me that that one idea really helped her feel comfortable that first night that's that's very nice that's what do do couples have a recourse if they're struggling with this like who would be someone they would talk to if if they didn't get that piece of advice then they're not making it um i mean i always uh i always recommend marital counseling if needed you know so that's you know judaism is very into uh empathy you know that that is the key to all of judaism what is hateful to you don't do to your friend that's empathy so when you speak to somebody who has the ability to be empathetic and understand yes i can understand how difficult i cannot i can understand on top this is perhaps how to approach it um that's a very jewish idea if everything's very jewish um but they could they should be able to turn to their parents if they have a good relationship and we don't have that stigma it's interesting in the secular world when whenever people think of their parents um or their parents doing the deed you you're it gross like ew my parents uh we don't we don't actually have that reaction uh we don't have it because we try to sort of veer away from it's all about hotness young nubile you know you know that's what it's all about that that young fresh body i want to get old and wrinkly you know ill it's not like we understand it's a lifelong commitment but something really quite beautiful and my father was the one of course with uh respect gently and uh with class explained to me the ins and outs the birds the bees um and i explained it to my kids um but most rabbis who are good rabbis should be able to explain to their students what to expect and um if done right uh you know there's there's no harm in in experiment there's no harm in you know telling a couple you don't have to be experts overnight you know you there's a great advantage of the first time that you've tried any position the first time you had any experience when it comes to sexuality the memory is going to be with this person the one that you love but uh but potent powerful ideas very nice very nice yeah so in terms of other challenges what would you consider intimacy to be the biggest challenge facing the new couple or what would you say is the hardest thing i think with it within the orthodox world um is a challenge without a doubt whether it's the biggest challenge it would depend on the couple but it's not a challenge that can't be overcome it's just a much greater challenge than somebody who's been in a fraternity for four years and it's so you know it's so uh proficient and that it's just you know it's just a mere formality you know it's official it's a legitimate challenge there are other challenges uh yeah what do you think is one of the biggest challenges you know one of the challenges is um a guy for example uh who has been going to yeshiva all of his life and has been sort of on his own hearing about himself all of a sudden has to learn how to be domesticated and you know pick up room fold some laundry call if you're going to be late um you know really really figure out what does that mean to be part of a partnership it's a challenge it's a challenge it's even a challenge for somebody who is a studious person who has been conditioned all of their life to understand the belief that every moment that is spent at scottish torah is perhaps a waste that could be better used all of a sudden to be told no picking up that room is a holy act and helping out is something that you almighty wants and at times it is a greater dna holier deep and more necessary than uh yeshiva and studying torah and this is a message that we actually get in yeshiva when the birth goes to yeshiva one of the study periods is called night saving which means they're studying during the evening to a few hours of study at night and a person in the first year of their marriage is advised to skip that after the afternoon period they go home and they spend all evening with their but their response at least the first year because that's what love is it means repeat being there for them playing around eq playing pictionary going bowling being chilled you know doing things that maybe your spouse doesn't inherently enjoy learning how to enjoy them you know with like maybe she'll not enjoy baseball or football right maybe he will learn to uh enjoy her music or her hobbies or her books and it's not a waste of time it's a it's a really purposeful act of building love in a relationship okay now i want to ask the dreaded two words uh in-laws what about that what can you talk about two families coming together any any stories about that any not just advice but but you know experiences that you can share yeah i mean my my in-laws are just they're so amazing so um i i think have you heard any nightmare in law stories because i remember staying at their house right in the beginning um it was like i just got married or i was engaged and i guess my mother-in-law came in when my shirt was open and my tits were showing and i guess my my scissors were a little bit not so clean you know they're just very often i think the shirt and she made some sort of a comment like oh you know you could you know just can be washed she wasn't you need to be mean i'm like oh no your begins um you know some some in-laws are just it's humorous mother of all she was sitting down with his son-in-law and she was serving him supper and was right at the beginning of the marriage and it was a torturous meal because she would serve him something and he would and she was like you like the soup yeah i like it no you don't like it you don't like it yeah i do it it needs soap doesn't it no mommy it's delicious no no you're just saying it right no it's cold it's cold why not heat it up no you don't have to eat it up no listen you don't have to finish to make me feel good no i like it and she's gonna understand the chicken the chicken isn't crispy and she needed so much reassurance and it's being like i will never get this chicken down my throat how do i convince her that i love it so finally he finished it she says you want more right so she serves one second he doesn't want her you don't like it do you like it mom i'm full no you don't like it next time just say you don't like it like and i won't serve you know maybe maybe my daughter looks better i i think so you know a lot of pretty sure that you're not feeling a kid that you're part of a family that's why we just to sort of establish that you know you are you know you're my parents and i love you and i'm not i take your your daughter or son away but i became part of your family um and then it won't be a nightmare then it'll be pleasant and the best thing is to go far away i love that advice do you tell your students that just just move far away i um i didn't tell it to them uh but i sort of hinted to them you may want to consider living in israel now you know the real reason now we know why so many people move to israel and what about um holidays how to figure out talk about i mean i know personally that it's a big deal whose house you go to for which holiday it's really interesting um we have a son who it looks like tomorrow night he's going to get engaged and um john william we're so the girl lives in israel so you know we we never actually met her so we would like her to come to america and stand face up with that which is going to be in a few weeks and there's some negotiating going on you know just like the kid and flag to america right but in general our rule is we don't stand on ceremony and we try not to be petty and when your kid gets older they get married they're adults on their own they uh deserve their freedom just like you had your freedom and if you didn't have your freedom you know how bad it is for sure give them their freedom and not not the standard ceremony and you know sometimes people don't list that and they make a big deal out of it and it's uh as you say it it's is chamber it shouldn't be that way so um why why do you think oh so first of all first of all mazel tov i'm so happy for you and i can't believe you're giving us time here to speak to us now and when you're having an engagement hopefully tomorrow night um but i just have to ask about this does this mean your son is getting engaged to a girl you've never met and you're okay with that you know it's funny my daughter just asked me that question today she said how could you how could you let her marry uh you did yeah that's my son's name if she's never if you never met her so i said what's the problem i said you know the world very often we speak about trust the world has like these certain markers and without those markers you can't survive so you have to meet the girl because that's vertical of course we would love to meet the girl that we're going next week we're flying to israel but the real question is do we doubt that this girl is an awesome girl we don't because we did the research we did enough phone calls we smoked enough people we don't doubt it do we doubt that our son wants her no mind our son many years we know he loves her so what what's the purpose just to make it official we don't stand on ceremony the world so often uses these kind of markers in order to make something official of course we would like to we would love to obviously so a picture of her and someone and it sounds strange to other people but we don't have doubts so it's so we'll meet her next week what are we going to say well look at her she's not putting off our son right she's not smart enough her family's not good enough that's why jewish matchmaking involves a lot of research and we find out a lot and because of that we feel like we we know this girl we're so comfortable with this girl and um we we are going out with a full heart uh an open open mind and uh full of gladness very nice very very very special i guess they couldn't wait for the the next week for you to come that didn't work they they could have they could have but i didn't want to do that to my son or to the girl you know there then if they're ready so selfishly i'm going to make them wait for a week just so i can give them the thumbs up okay you're just what we do you would be it's painful right you're painful a girl to know that she's running and get engaged but she's got to keep it secret for a week that's horrible so uh very considerate and how long have they been dated so this is this is interesting in america people go out for you know in the orthodox world for about a month and a half two months sometimes three months usually no less than a month which sounds short for the sake of the world but because you've done research it's really not um it sounds funny but my son met the girl last saturday night so they met saturday night they met sunday night they met wednesday night and he's going to pop the question he's going to pop the question um so again quick quick quick um but you know we happen to trust our son which which is why this situation wouldn't be typical our son is an amazing boy he's a clear thinker um girls in the religious world are relatively uncomplicated um especially those who grow up with her background well just she's a giver her classmates and her teachers and her friends speak the world of her and my son who spent whatever amount of hours getting to know her knows his attractions are seasoned everything that we said is so um again it's it's not me preaching to everyone this is the way to do it i wouldn't recommend it but with this son with this girl this circumstance um again we're not we're not concerned wow what a story so i have to ask why you mentioned that you wouldn't recommend it why do you think most people couldn't do this because i know most people are you know more complicated you know most more complicated and americans in particular are very complicated where we live in a society that analyzes and psychoanalyzes everything and everyone and purpose and trust issues and uh it's really a complicated world in the world that this girl grew up in which is uh in israel in very religious defound purposeful uh communities where people live and breathe kindness and consideration and love and happiness i mean the first thing everyone said about this girl is she is constantly december which means she is always joyous she walks around she doesn't watch you while it's around people want to be around her because she's just so happy she emanates positivity and warmth um all of her life she's just been that person of kindness and consideration and love there were literally no red flags and that's rare that's weird you know i interview people in my job as a campus i travel i do interviews for trips i interview allies from positions and part of my skill set is listening out watch out for red flags people who over share information or use uh words that are emotionally charged all sorts of um ways of sort of uncovering layers behind the person that's what i'm training so when i interviewed somebody for a match i was i was looking out for those words and they would have to be found which is so positive uh through and through uh where the words lucky home run i wanted her for my nephew of just one thing after the next know the red flags and we know our son is is very much the same way so do you want to call it spiritual love of at first at first sight uh solomonship that's the word i love to uh coin soulmanship if you're good at checking out the this is your soulmate your you got some good solomonship going on so and then there is some a level of i'm assuming luna like a leap of faith right yeah it is there is a degree of trepidation not about the girl but about the fact that the whole concept is somewhat foreign to uh to myself my wife meaning but she's israeli although her parents are american so she speaks english but it flows with an accent uh she grew up in maybe a more closed not maybe but definitely more closed uh environment than that than my son did there is a certain amount of but one has to believe that uh the almighty is moving the chess pieces around and uh we've seen that we see this with the first two kids where the almighty was just simply moving them around and controlling the situation sometimes we just have to open the door and let the great matchmaker in the sky do his thing so we saw with the first two kids and we saw the circumstance how we met this girl uh were unusual and we just felt like this is something that uh there seems to be a spiritual inertia that's pushing this forward so we let we we wrote it out we waited to see where it was going to take us and take our son and uh we're pleased that we did very nice wow what a beautiful thank you so much for sharing that this is an added bonus i thought we'd talk generalities but we got to talk very specific the very last thing i'd like to end with is a question about um divorce when it doesn't work is that is that acceptable and if you can talk about that and do you think sometimes it happens too soon or not soon enough so i mean it's certainly on the society in the orthodox world um there is no question that divorce is viewed as a tragedy and while it is a tragedy in all of society but i think the rest of the society uses a different word they use the word mistake we acknowledge that there were mistakes that may have been made but the word that we use is trench um this it sounds the same but it really is a mistake is you know i i i bought the wrong pair of shoes right i thought that was a size nine and a half but i'm a size nine so my soul keeps popping out that's a mistake that's not a tragedy there's a difference tragedy means that you know this has been um this is this is something that is going to hurt and people are going to be uh scarred they're going to be there's a certain amount of damage that you're causing a lot of the openness and the the optimism in life is gonna be is gonna be crushed and that involves sadness uh the talmud says that the divorce caused us the altar in the temple to shed tears it's a it's a it's a very very big very strong concept so when divorce is needed we're not catholicism divorce can happen uh it is legal it can't be done but we're really really trying to figure out whether the divorce is occurring because of petty reasons is is there a separation or misunderstanding that simply misunderstanding is there a lack of maturity that is bound to mature that's bound to uh that's bound to change if you give it enough time and if we don't give enough time uh you know we've robbed ourselves of something that could have been very beautiful so that's how we look like a tragedy we look at it very often as lack of maturity and it doesn't it could be that you're in your 30s not in your 20s and you could still be immature what's the definition of maturity there's two definitions one is a lack of the lack of awareness of the long-term consequence of actions if people are immature they don't have that understanding i if i do a and literally to be able to see and the other hallmark of a lack of maturity is selfishness i'm very selfish but mary into myself like a child so that my world view is is cut off it's cut short and i can't incorporate another person at their needs into my world view so these are things that can't be worked on selfishness you can go and volunteer at a nursing home volunteer with disabled children you work on oneself in judaism we actively work on oneself so that would be one recommendation for a couple that is suffering from lack of maturity that comes to understanding of the results the cause and effect of one's action we try to make it clear you know if you get divorced there will be some ramifications they're gonna be tough and especially our children and you have to think a hundred times before saying goodbye but if the right thing is to say goodbye when you say it you try to be a mensch about it you try to be proper about it and you know god willing you'll find your soulmate they'll find those soulmate and they will be able to uh pick up the pieces and build beautiful homes very nice and what about temper do you think a bad temper can be controlled or is that like just a terrible sense well what i tell my students is there are two character traits that if you notice them especially tell this to the girls i say to them if you see a guy with one or two character traits run for the hills and those two character traits are anger and honesty there are issues of anger issues of honesty very very tough to change can it be changed yes it can but the person has to be aware of it they have to be open to changing and they have to you know if they need therapy which they probably do they should accept it and work for themselves but those are the two great warning signs anger lack of honesty very nice very nice okay thank you so much for talking with me and by extension with us and wow and very i think this was so enlightening i really appreciate it and i'm thanking you on other people's behalf as well so i want to wish you a good travis and um a big imminent marvel tough thank you so much