Choose life – Episode 2 | Yossi Brach | with Dr Yitzchok Tannenbaum.

and welcome of the subject ADHD in childhood anxiety opportunity. Let's get into it. How are you? Thank you so much for coming down. Yes, I'm a doctor. I have a DSW DSW. >> Doctor in social work. >> What's the difference between doctor in social work or a different uh like a psychologist or psychiatrist? >> Each the licenses are different. Each one has a claim. Each one has various different parts of training. But on a general sense, we're all here to help. the main podcast about yourself. So like like many people that become social workers, I was involved with I was also a head counselor. I was a head counselor of a camp for many years campa. I was also learning with Bim inhib various yeshivas and then on the advice of various raim including Rabbi uh Binyam Benza and my Rav advised me that this would be a nice way to continue helping people in a professional setting and also as a princa and u here I am one thing led to the next You always it came a little naturally and it it snowbled. It grew into it grew into itself. Yes. Social work experience problem with modern medicine. whatever says in the book, you know, and a specialty neurologist or whatever of the computer search >> I could also Google, >> right? Exactly. I doctors by the way I saw on Google whatever. So I guess is um days with me interacted with a lot of people experience school. So absolutely there's a lot of information a lot of methods that social workers use is is a connection theft we're not friends but the connection the the personto person relationship that that a therapist you connects with their with their clients. Of course both are important. You need to know what to do once you establish that connection. >> But you have to have that connection in order to accomplish with what and that's that's a very important aspect. It's a very important part. as a therapist. >> Absolutely. It's definitely part of our training. And I I will also say I can tell you that numerous people have come to me and they said that they had opened up to a friend. They had spoken to a friend and the friend heard them out validated validated them listened to them and told them I think this is the point that you should be speaking to a therapist. I get I get angry. You know people go on my nerves. Therapists enable you. Of course, you should be angry. Very good. If when the therapist tells him something, he is really helping him or he's being lazy. >> So, to summarize, how do you know if you're accomplishing in therapy or you're just there >> to feel comforted? Of course, the client should always be in the driver's seat and should always you be looking out for are they progressing? Are they accomplishing? Of course, it there's a process and it takes time. But but but the the main thing is are they getting skills to increase their functionality? Are they getting skills or are they just being told, "Yeah, everything's fine. Everything's okay." usually within a relatively short period of time or that whatever that may be, a few weeks, a month or something, they'll be able to see that, oh, he taught me how to handle this situation and not get so triggered. He taught me I I could I could challenge my regular way of thinking and and view what happened in a different way. I could regulate my emotions in a better scenario. Of course, it starts with the validation and the empathy and the the cuddling like you say, but it should turn pretty quickly into skills to help manage such scenarios with improved results. >> As a therapist, the end of the day was what he's naturally made to do. But as a therapist, it's not in the benefit anymore. >> It definitely happens. It's something that we speak about often in pair supervision or supervisions within um whatever they may be or elsewhere. Um and it's definitely a point that we have to consider. There are some people that want to stay in therapy forever and there are some therapists that would like you said want the client to stay forever and there has to be a point very often it's at a yearly interval or whatever that is certain amount of months where there's a review like we treatment review we look over what did we accomplish what did we do what are we going to continue to accomplish should we focus on something something else now did something come up that's uh often >> something that really has to be considered Okay, very good. Okay. Um in the main topic the main topic is childhood anxiety meaning controversial subject ADHD diagnos in child anxiety problem opinion but it's not as focused on childhood anxiety mention like to whom conversation. Why is it important to bring awareness to such an issue in your opinion? for parents to see if the child is anxious or if it's a normal reaction to what to whatever their environment is. Um, some children are going to be more happy golucky and roll with the punches. Some are going to be much more uptight. The one that's more uptight at a certain point, it's kadai to identify it. Show the child this is what you're going through. This is what you're experiencing. It's okay. This is how it can be dealt with, how it can be managed and you're g that's a parent giving their children tool their child tools to deal with that. >> What are some early signs? anxiety. What are some early signs mentioning? Oh, the guy ADHD pills, you know, so people are a little bit suspect and you don't address it, you're setting them up for a life of failure. So, how can parents know as okay, this is something, this is something that's checking. So your question really had two parts. One was how do we know how does ADHD ADHD getting get diagnosed and how does a parent know that a child has ADHD or anxiety? Um first let's talk about the diagnos diagnosing um there's no blood test. It's behavioral >> right >> and yes how how should a parent know? So the way it gets really diagnosed is with a conversation with parents. There are questionnaires. They're called rating scales. There's a famous one called the Vander Vanderbilt rating scales. These are given to a parent, the teachers, perhaps two teachers. Um and and the the symptoms it goes through a list of symptoms and usually the person filling it out gets the the gist of it as they're filling it out. What's what is if it is an issue or if it isn't an issue. Another important point is that it really it has to be in two settings in order for it to be an official diagn. If they're nervous in school and they're not nervous at home, they're nervous at home, they're not nervous in school. So then there's something triggering them and that's it's not that they have the issue so much, >> right? >> It's more it's it's more a general thing when it's in both in two scenarios. they're very nervous both at home and in school or they're both they're hyper they they're very energetic both at home and in school then it becomes more of a uh the diagnosis so to speak. Um another part of the question was how does the parent know that it's let's say let's call it hyperactive ADHD versus energetic children. How does a parent know? And the answer to that really is really is first of all when it's extreme usually it's it's over the top and it's kind of self-evident. >> You know what I mean? >> Can I know about >> but uh very therefore very often it's going to come from a rebi or a teacher's perspective because they're comparing this child. They know the range the regular range >> and they see this one is completely out of the range. So very often the ADHD or anxiety conversation is really starting from the school and sometimes the parents either they're nervous that it's going to be an official diagnosis too quickly and given medication or they're just pulling back. >> Um but very often that's the the root. It's coming from the school. Sometimes the parents then will will agree or will say yes we're seeing that at home or sometimes they'll they'll be saying the other way that no that what are you talking about he's the most chilled kid at home. So it's very interesting. Um there's a story where you say the pill in the meime for a different. So my I guess my point is the easiest way to know is it in two settings, you know, as the But do ADHD misdiagnosed ADHD medication and the care is the best pediatrician where is the best doctor is the best doctor skin doctor. Well, welcome to a medical center quality and individuality field pediatrics and adult medicine and dermatology. in need of [music] quality [music] comfortable blood tests x-rays referrals prescriptions is my goto medical center for [music] mans a proud sponsor for inj I was I was going to say that we're assuming that ADHD PhD means medication. That's not always the case. There are there are times that there are times that that's the word is indicated that that makes sense. And there are times that there's plenty to do that's not with medication. There's a lot of of of speaking. My license is not for medication, >> right? >> I don't I don't do medications. Of course, I speak with prescribers and both and and otherwise um a lot with parents if they should be giving medicine to their children or not. But that's ultimately that's the the doctor's call, the prescribers call and that that's not my role. My role is to help them with the communication and the the general education of the of the medication. But if if the parent bish does not want medication, we have we have to think about if it's correct. But there of course there are times that that's uh >> legitimate the right path. Then there's plenty to do. There's C CBT therapy which is behavioral. It's cognitive behavioral therapy but it's usually going to at that younger age going to focus on the behavioral part on behavioral charts on talking with the child. And again this is only going to come after establishing a connection. A child has to like coming has to like you you the therapist. Um, and very often that's going to happen. Of course, we have our games that we play and we we smoo about what's happening in their lives. That's connecting. It's called a therapeutic alliance. >> And once that's established, then we could start talking. What happened in school? I heard there was a whole story in school. The teacher gave out an assignment. He didn't want to do it. He got all angry. How do what could have been done differently? That's what was going through your mind at that time. What uh did you identify this feeling that you were in? Oh no, there's an assignment. I cannot do it. It's very often giving them the tools of identifying what's going to happen, what's happening inside of them and what's going to happen as a result of that >> helps them control it in in the classroom setting or at home when it comes to, you know, fighting with their siblings or whatever it is, listening to their parents. So identifying to them what's happening inside their mind and what then is going to happen you know out from their actions helps them control it in a big way. There's a lot that parents can do and of course this is with a therapist helping and advising and educating a parent. A parent can can teach the child his emotions. emotional literacy. Teach his child what is he feeling and what's the result of these feelings. A parent can also model proper emotional regulation. You know, I that bothered me also, but I I decided that I know it bothers me and I I'm in the mood of doing something out of the ordinary, but I decided not to. I I had a different way to let to release my frustration. That is something that a parent can do [clears throat] from from their perspective. A large part that we work on both in therapy and to help parents help their children is to build a child's self-confidence because self-confidence is often a key to so much >> and that's something that that every parent can do and it has nothing to do with medicine and there is no pill to give self-confidence that is only from the medication side. The big question of course is how do we build self-confidence? And there's many different answers. It's a large topic. It's a whole can have its own podcast. It uh there are many different angles. Some of them are to teach a child a skill. The child is musically inclined or draws these or woodworking. These are skills that they can feel good about themselves or accomplished something. Sometimes that accomplishment leads to their self-confidence. >> Yeah. Right? >> Which in turn can help everything else. The ADHD, the anxiety, the their behaviors. All this is are things that a parent can do without medication. And these are things that a therapist can help. Again, my license is not medication. You have to lean and develop of of medicine to know the latest ones, what the side effects are, the doses, the dosages. These are this that's not my those aren't my tools as a therapist. My tools are connecting communication both with and and and teaching skills both to the child and to the parent to help that to help that child. >> Right. Right. The point in regards to the parents can model with self-confidence mind how much of a child's problems emotionally regulated emotions meaning in a perfect worldly vault problem free% from a child's emotional deregulation. Excellent question. And the the words of the answer are always going to include nature versus nurture. That's the big debate and the big uh >> was my nature was my nurture. >> Nature means the the gave each child each person that's and their the way they view the world. That's their that's the how how uptight they are, how relaxed or chilled they are. That's that's the nature. People are born with certain natures. Nurture is how a how a child was nurtured over the years. If there are overreactions to every time the child falls, he's he's not going to learn to walk. If there are overreactions to every step a child does as he grows up, he he's going to internalize that message to become more, oh, I have to be more nervous. a child of parents that's going to be overly nervous about about every little action he does whether it's riding a bike or crossing the street or anything like that he's internalizing these messages >> to to become that nervous and about about all these things. So now there are different that react to different aspects of their nurture of their environment. Some will internalize it more and their parent being nervous or anxious or hyperactive that's going to influence them more >> and there are some that'll influence them less but it it's it's a it's really a combination of both. There's two very important there's two drivers there's two driver seats there's two steering wheels. >> Very interesting conversation conversation Dr. Rosenberg I didn't touch on that subject but still an idea in genetics the amen dormant genes you have dormant genes genes and the external environment can obeen genes meaning stress under stress certain dormant genes so even though naturally you're inclined to one thing but if your nurture is my perfect example mention heart disease. So disease the gene only gets affected certain foods. So certain nature is nature versus nurture but I don't know but an environment fight or flight mode fire you know what do you think about that >> very true very accurate that the environment will bring out certain aspects of the of the the their genes the DNA of their of their black and white >> they both intertwine mind they both mix with each other. Nature and nurture are things that are ve very much influence the the child mind meaningd in the days mind because there's a lot of myths you know what I mean so ADHD anxiety. >> Excellent question. What is ADHD? So ADHD, there's few different versions of ADHD. Of course, the H stands for hyperactive. So it used to be ADD or ADHD. Now it's it's always called ADHD, just sometimes hyperactive and sometimes inattentive. And they're very different. >> Okay. >> The hyperactive is the child that's bumpy. That's that's the one that everyone's talking about. That's the big topic. But there's another very big faic of ADHD which is inattentive which means they they can't focus too long of a podcast. They're going to space out. >> It's a niche connected >> if any they may be opposites. >> Very interesting. I always thought they're connected but there I knew. >> Yes. The one that's jumpy is not going to be able to focus for that long simply because he can't sit in the seat for that long. >> Right. >> But it's two different parts. They both lead to something called impulsivity. Impulsivity >> where delayed gratification is very hard for them to >> they want their they want to have everything now and realizing the the results of their actions meaning consequences of their natural consequences of what they did. >> Sometimes they they won't make those connections. >> Interesting. So in in in short ADHDs and I mention was focus kids that have a hard time to focus and hyperactive and part of that is from an emotional standpoint I guess actions. So let me ask you, ADHD, impulsivity, delayed gratification with ADHD, ADHD, how tools, especially if the kid is younger, but on a younger child, there's an advice The honest truth is that this question it really has two categories. Do the parents have ADHD or anxiety themselves or not? That's uh and the same would apply to Rabim. Do do does the Rebi have it >> have it naturally or not? >> Um which by the way have had it >> and this is just a a word to to parents. A child that has ADHD has a future ahead of him, >> right? >> He could be plenty successful in many areas. >> I I was even in a share given by by the therapists who how to how to handle tamidim with with ADHD. And it was very it was very obvious from the comments. One Rebi was saying, "It doesn't bother me that a child is jumping." He could be sitting on the window sill as long as he's somewhat listening, understands it. And another the other rebi was saying, "What do you mean? Every child has to be in order mud in order >> in order for me to be able to give over the the the lessons." And and yes, that was a it was an eye openener for me that >> this there was no there's no correct or incorrect. Right? >> Each rabbi has his direction, his mahal. And of course, it's dependent on his own. >> So the same thing applies with parents. If the if the parent has his own struggles with or had his own struggles with ADHD or or didn't. If of course if they did, so then he'll know a little bit more what's going on. He'll understand a little bit more. And if not, they have to become a little more educated and try to read some read up about it and and what there is to do. The first a first step for any parent with a child that's epis is number one learn learn to regulate your own emotion. Check your own emotions first. Don't get all pumped up. Take take a take a deep breath before we dive into the pool. That's that's a first the first step. >> You're going in with the right mind. And right, >> right. This is going to vasillate between ADHD and anxiety with a child. You want to validate the child. Let's say the child is nervous about something. So you want to validate them. You want to you want to bring them to reality. Of anxiety often is an emotion. It's a fear. It's a feeling. It's not often not connected to logic. There are times. So you want to reconnect that child to logic, but not in in not in an invalidating way. You want to show the child this this is really what's happening. At a certain age, a child can understand what's called rear and what's what's not rare. What's what's h what happens often and what doesn't happen often. >> That's that's something that a parent can teach a child. >> It's my just to explain that. But what do you mean what happens often and what doesn't happen often? Like what >> it's not too likely that the >> Oh. Oh. If she has a fear of fearing, >> it's not so likely. It's not like you're going to be abducted by aliens. Okay. >> Now, you don't want to give false promises. >> Those kids abducted by aliens. [laughter] >> You don't give false promises, but you want to give a a a connection to reality that it's not >> that common, >> right? >> Especially it's very important with kids, I think, that are scared kidnap. Well, this is the most common fear for a guy. So insan we're walking from the projects let's say five six blocks are up to the south >> climb a street >> n climb Streetment by Clim Street. >> Yeah. Climate Street in the in the '9s of of the South Puerto Ricans. So anybody who's kidnapped an extra [laughter] so anyway so that this is not so common you know. >> Okay. So my question is and I don't know but officially you know like I was so not ready for it And you do it on the fly, you know. I don't know what to do, you know. in our hot is 23 24 especially by women. It's very overwhelming. Excellent question. The first step they have to do is connect with their own emotions. connect with their own with their own uh feelings, try to make sure that they themselves are not over being over overwhelmed and be able to be in touch in in reality to what's to what's happening. Of course, they have to connect with their children. They should be connecting with the children and of of course these are these are the tough it's easy to talk about. It's hard to do it for real. >> Right. Right. Right. >> I'm assuming we're talking about a slightly older child that we could talk to because really that's the skill. Obviously, >> not talking about the the the older child. That's where we could start connecting with them. We can we can teach them to be in touch with their own feelings, their own emotions, how to how to regulate their emotions. A lot of times giving them language, giving them the words to define what's happening is is a big uh is a big a big help. A few lines that are that are coming to mind is name it to tame it. You want to name the feeling to tame it to control it. >> Okay. >> Name it to tame it. >> Name it to tame it. Fine. >> Name it to tame it. Um move it or lose it. >> Mine days. >> That means if a child has extra energy, give them a ball. Let him play. >> Yeah. Get a team. >> Move it or move it or lose it. And then especially when they're a little older, talk before tackle. Not such >> but talk before tackle. Talk before hitting. >> Shoot. It means ask questions before you shoot. Something like this. >> Right. Did the other child bother you? Talk to him about it. >> Don't shoot first. Ask questions later. Right. >> Right. First talk about it. When a if a mother or a father gives these ideas to their children and speaks about it and models it and shows them these problem solving skills and these negotiating skills, the hope is that the child will will take it >> right in that experience especially parents if somebody decides an adult and he decides, you know, there's this famous song from you know the song >> actually in short grocery store whatever you know throwing stuff over the shelves and somebody was so impressed. How are you not you know? So in that experience obviously I'm talking if somebody how many times is the perception versus the actual >> it's very hard to talk in public in over you know every scenario because each scenario is different each scenario everyone one should be working on their own. That's uh >> is definitely there. Yeah. back back it's about that mother with the children what what she could do with so a lot we there are a few basic steps you know breathe deeply calmly count one two three there's uh there's where where in your body are you feeling the anger you know and focus on that a mother can also give their children various activities of of different balls to play with or act active activities to for them to release their energy. >> Right? >> That's and that's that's and the mother could even say you need to release your energy. Go jump on the tra on the trampoline. You need to do the you need to you're teaching them the mother is teaching them to release their energy because that's affecting their emotions which is affecting their behavior to other. >> Interesting. um technology nowadays. Yeah. Let's say you're 15. Yeah. A long time ago before kids had all these gamers and all these things exposure to technology or that it's not really related. >> Very good question. We would have to do studies. We have to research it. There very likely is a a connection. There's less activity moving on. The doctors are reporting that there's more and more children are coming without bruised knees in the summer. [laughter] >> You know what I mean? >> Yeah. You know, the riding the obviously all the all the screen time is taking away from the bike riding and the running around outside. We have children that are not interested. They also have anxiety, the social anxiety that's holding them back from playing outside and so they're inside. So they're going to be on the devices, >> right? >> So it's it's just it feeds off each other and it causes one causes the other. >> And probably a big part of it, you know what I mean? >> Another good tool is drawing. There's actually a whole line of therapy called art therapy. And it's it's done right. It's an unbelievable tool. And you don't to be done right. A piece of paper and a box of fresh crayons >> and draw what happened. Draw your draw yourself. Draw your feelings. Draw how you could have reacted, >> right? >> Especially if a child has the skill of drawing, it could release a tremendous amount. Draw what you're angry at. Draw what the other person did. >> Uhhuh. Out of it instead of expressing your feelings. So very interesting. Wow. I have a memory of she took me to some lady pictures. She told my mother, [laughter] you know what I mean? AD teachers teachers and malam in the house setting, you know, but nowadays the mention was spended, you know, this 9 to5 I have in the morning an hour, an hour and a half. The mama's she's home, she's out, the kids are He's a nice guy. He's good at what he does. Good at what he does. So in the 70s, in the 80s, in the 90s, there was a very simple way how to do it. But anybody in before I even start, I am a therapist. I'm in a room with one child. Sometimes the parents are there. Sometimes they're not. A rebi is a is the has a room with what is it? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So who who am I to even start talking >> to a Rebi to tell a Rebi what to do? He has a whole classroom and their job is is unbelievable what they do and and they work very hard. Their their their job is the job of getting the curriculum, figuring out what to teach. they plan it in advance. The more of course the more advant the the more planning there is, the more control they'll have in the classroom because they're going to be able to to give out their lessons much strong, much better. But it's it's a big job. It's it's the whole part of it of what to teach, how to teach it, and how to keep the children engaged and in control and in in their seat or in the classroom. So be before I even start I have to be mak the the the the hard work that reb have and put yourself in a rebu you're listen he's going to be listening to somebody that has one person in his room venvi that one person that is in my room I try focusing very much on them and what could help them and and what what could change in their environment to help them and if I'm able to give some sites I I will try if of course if abi could and of course I understand it's one out of 25. There's a system. It has to work. There's a classroom. There's a class going on. But if at all possible, whatever focus to give on this child and do, they really do. They really listen. My experience has been they'll listen. They'll try to implement whatever ideas I give, whatever ideas are given, and they try to put it into practice. It could be anything from simply where they're sitting closer up versus further back. Who are they sitting next to? Be a little more in tune to the child that's sitting there. They're going to be more distracted. So, do they see the door? Do they not see the door? Do they see the window? Do they not see the window? Are they closer up? Are they further back? And of course, Rabbam always had this these calculations in mind. But with with a child, it's that much more important. A lot of want everyone sitting in sitting in that seat looking inside and it's important of course but at what point do we at what point do we and at what point do we notice and we make a big as out of it >> right >> so perhaps as our child maybe let's a little bit more >> let him get get away with a bit of course not we're not I'm not advocating losing control >> not at the expense of the class but >> right but somehow just a little bit. Another important point is the these children have to move. They have to now, of course, they're often getting into trouble. And one of the easiest, quickest punishments are to take away the recess. The problem though is if you take away the recess, they're going to have to move even more. And after the recess, they're going to be ready to explode. Of course, have that in mind. I'm not saying never to give any such child a consequence, but let's calculate what it should be as opposed to Um, a big a big is to be on the to try to be on the child's team as opposed to be being against the child. >> When you're on on the child's team, understanding that's makes a world of a difference and that could that could go that can make a right turn or a left turn mish from the first day. >> Interesting. on the first day. That could be uh and and a lot of children are easy to to get over to your side either with clay and ash or with a small a small toy or something and a feric ju just as mason abyssal just to get the child on their side >> with them. Help me with them as the enemy >> that that that could be a big a big thing. A lot of these children are going to be less organized. They're not going to have their folders in the right order. They're not going to have the papers. So, this is also another aspect to a little bit, isn't it? And also, you know, to obviously to within a certain level and but also maybe this child needs a little more help getting getting the uh the right folders out. This this does this child need to be need need a needed a couple of extra breaks. Send them to the to the to the office to get a copy from the secretary. >> Right. Right. Give them jobs. >> Give them jobs. These are the ways that a Rebi could connect with their with their tell them. Another very big tool for a Rebi is to connect with the child. Know what's happening in his life. Is there a sibling that's getting married? Is there a sibling that was in is sick? is in a hospital. There's this that could make a world of a difference with such a child to a certain extent. They they could also become aware is the child on medicine, is he not? Is he changing medicine? Does he have side effects from the medicine? And this leads right into communication with parents. Making it easy for a parent to call, drop a line, drop a piece of information. It shouldn't have to be like a whole big >> phone call. But of course, the Rebi doesn't have to be on the phone all night finding out every detail about every Talmet, but just to make it to open the lines of communication with parents. And of course, this is an avid of parents to remember, oh, let me advise this rebi there's a in the family. There's something happening in the family. >> You're not sending your your your son to work, you know, have a connection, >> right? It's it's a job for a parent to remember. It's also something a Rebi could do to increase that communication. >> Interesting. Okay. So, Margaret ADHD in anxiety. So how anxiety if you see it in school and if you see it at at home but just plainly mind anxiety in kids in in in a few in a few words mind anxietyd anxiety >> very good and anxiety means the child is nervous or more nervous that something is going to happen sometimes they don't even know what they're nervous about they're more and very often they're nervous about things that happen on a regular basis for example the sun goes down it gets dark children are much more afraid of the dark many of our houses have the bedrooms upstairs many of the Children are afraid to be the only one upstairs, the only one on the floor. It could be very frustrating for a parent. They have to stay upstairs till he falls asleep. They're afraid to fall asleep because all their their fears are activated because every shadow, they're afraid of the monsters under the bed, in the closet. These are real things. Children really have these these fears. >> These these fears are very common in childhood. In fact, it's there's a statistic I think that a child is quote unquote allowed to have nine fears. Fear of dark, fear of being alone, fear of being left without his parents, separation anxiety. >> These are nine allowed fears. Yeah, it's normal for a child. >> It's normal for a child to have nine fears. I think till about 9 years old, I think they go together and they slowly ease off. What happens is the child starts logically seeing how the world is working and then the child realizes a little more it's not so likely I'm going to get kidnapped. It's not so likely I'm going to get monsters under my bed or out of the closet. As they as their brain grows older and develops, they start realizing this and their anxiety sometimes subsides. Sometimes it it increases and then they could be nervous about going to going on the school bus. They could be nervous about going to Shiva. They could be nervous about playing. They could be nervous about getting a scratch. I'm going to fall. I'm going to play. I'm going to fall. So the these are the big aspects of anxiety with a child comes at a certain age. They start taking tests. We could see children fall apart from tests. >> Right. Then >> of course that's the the parents job is to try to tell them it's okay. You do yours, you study, and whatever we get we get. There's different types of children. There's the child that that's going to get a 100 each time, but is nervous each test that he's going to get a zero. And then there's the child that's afraid of taking any test because he's taken not going to do so well. He's not so stark academically. These are and and each one has to be dealt with to give him the skills. The the of the biggest things a parent can do is know what's happening, connect with the child, understand the child's his academic reality, and teach him accordingly how to how to deal with it, how to handle it on a uh on a with a with logic and with problem solving skills. >> Very interesting. So on a practical level, um was hot and he has real anxiety without making the anxiety worse. You know what I mean? Some basic tools was healthies. Sometimes the answer is simply to sit in the room with them for a few minutes. Of course, it shouldn't be too long, but but sometimes the parent doesn't have time. Try to try to set some time to be there and to help the child through the anxiety time time frame time that he's feeling that anxiety. They could be spoken to. They can be spoken to before the anxiety hits, which is the biggest side very often while the child's in anxiety. That's the time that a parent is focused on it. That's the time that a parent's talking to the child about anxiety, >> right? >> But the child is all famished. He's all at that time to set aside a different time to speak when he's calm. Sometimes the children don't want I don't want to talk about nighttime anxiety now. I want to play outside with my friends, >> right? but to find the right time that the that the conversation can happen that a parent can teach a child logical problem solving skills how to ground themselves during the time that they're feeling all anxious. a few a few skills that a parent can give their child. Again, my tools are not the medicines, >> right? >> My tools are the the psycho education, the skills, the connection. The of of the tools that a ch a parent can teach their children is being in touch with yourself, deep breathing, calm breathing, being attached to re f focus on reality, what's likely to happen, what's not likely to happen. There's a concept called worry time and you can tell the child you can tell the child it makes sense that you're afraid of certain things that they might happen. How about we set aside a certain period of time that you you sit and you think about the about the >> It actually works. >> Yeah. It's called worry time. >> Worry time. >> Yeah. You set aside time and it works in a few ways. First of all, during during the time that it's established that they should think about the the worry, they're not sahited. They're not feeling the the come naturally. >> So by then it's much more shak to use logic to overcome it. Um sometimes they're not even in the mood and then during the regular during the time that it that it is activated. So then they they have the ability to tell themselves I already had I already [snorts] >> did my anxiety then and it sometimes work. There's a there's a book out there called the happiness box which is a similar >> concept >> concept. The child get the family got a refrigerator which came in a cardboard box and they the delivery men took the refrigerator out and they left the box and the the one of the parents took the box and told one of their nevesa children sit in here but in here you could only think of happy thoughts and so that's called a happiness box right >> similar concept and and it works children find it the the the story goes that the child was going to camp >> and he couldn't take the box with him so he he was nervous that he wouldn't be able to bring his box. So he at that point he learned to to make that box in his mind. >> So that's how these things work. idea >> that concept can work either the time or the place. So the job from the parents to teach the kids uh to be there with the kids you know. So at some point you know the nine fears with anxiety you know when they get anxiety during the day are some basic tools. So what there's very good question. There's what a parent can do and what a parent should not do. What a parent should not do is say ah stop worrying about it. Why are you being so worried that's very invalidating sin that's very invalidating and the child feels very misunderstood. No one understands me and he's going to go further and further in his anxiety. We can see from there we could try to do the opposite. I understand you. I understand you have this feeling. I understand you have this anxiety. Let's talk about it. What are the realistic chances that it's going to happen? What is what are you nervous about? Are you nervous that everybody in the class is going to laugh at you? What are you are you nervous that you're not going to do good on the test? What are the chances? Of course, the parent has to know the reality. Is it true that everyone's laughing at him? >> Is it true that he's not going to do well on the test or the opposite and deal accordingly? Another important aspect is parent has to let their child learn problem solving skills on their own. help them understand what they did when it did work and what they could have done in order to solve the problem on their own in a different way. That's that's that's a huge part that let let the child make his mistakes >> in host and fix it. of course with support and with being there with support in every step of the way. In today's world with with cell phones, right? If we're talking about older children and they have access to cell phones or they borrow one, they can often call with any small problem, >> right? >> Like I'm I'm in shulan and it's raining. Come bring me an umbrella. [laughter] >> Right? And back in the day, we all knew to try to figure out you got to get home. There was no way to call. You had to get home. I saw, hi, it's raining. >> You have to solve your own problems. Parents can teach their children to connect with their with their own feelings, what is logical, what isn't logical, how to counter their emotion of fear with the logical reality of what is likely to happen and connect with the child say if of course if it's true I also was afraid of certain things and I saw over the years this was how I dealt with it. Another important thing that a parent can do which doesn't directly treat anxiety or ADHD but it's huge and and it's it's something that none of us a lot of us don't have and that's time >> spending time with children without even expensive without even expensive activities simply ch time with children whether it's a walk a hike a bike ride perhaps going to a store very often it's going to be going to learn but the focus almost shouldn't be so much learning should be the spending time together >> what it's when >> right it's giving the child time sometimes it's going to a different base medish if we're learning anyway let's learn some some sort of exploration let's explore let's look at what that base medish looks like let's look at what that sh looks like these uh oh let's go visit some a big face. Spending time with children is is such an big builder. It's a builder for everything. It's a builder for self-esteem. It's a builder for feeling good about themselves. It's an it'll help them learn their own problem solving skills. They're going to see you in real life as well. You're going to be driving. You'll get a flat tire. How do you deal with it? Do you fall apart or do you do you pull yourself together? you on the highway, you say you say something else, >> right? So spending time that that's those are the real times that we can model to our children how how we react to anxiety or in in real life scenarios anxiety or >> and a side effect of that is [snorts] relationship underrated. I want to hear what you think about this. Underrated aspect as a parent naturally. Am I doing the right thing or not? develop what's the biggest love that exists in the world. You can't measure it. It's unlimited. But this child is special. You know, so but in practically you know, so spending time with that kid will help you have a deeper connection. >> I have to say your question is so real, so honest, so true, so open, so authentic, and it's it's impressive. It's it's a real question. Um, and there are parents that have brought this up in therapy room with me. I have there's a data which I I've told some parents and it it changed their life. It gave them a whole different perspective comes to I want you to which son the when it comes to he says I love them both >> right >> at that point and were very very different >> right >> they were very different and he says about yes I >> and I love them this level >> and who's he talking No, there's no lying there like >> on the same level like >> now we're not but it's a it's a model. It's a lesson. blend. Fine. You know what I mean? Ask a real question. There was right here. My personal experience having you know get themselves. So like a crane. You have to pull them out of bed with a crane. 745, whatever. Anyway, so He gets assignments. So time you're going to have to walk. I don't care. back and forth, but they take it with both hands. >> Be careful. They could outsmart. Yeah, >> they switch it around. >> As far as parent learning to like the children that are first of all those the the these children have a future. I speak to adults that describe their childhood that they were they were tough and there are people that accomplish people that accomplish a lot people that their parents are proud of them. It's a stage their their anxiety their ADHD doesn't work well with the school setting >> right >> sometimes they blossom and they grow in an amazing way after school after the school years and the parents sh tremendous nakas from them a parent can look towards the future and and see the see the potential for tremendous tremendous nas but they should really also look in the at the currently getting very often they don't know every detail Especially father and mother father's at work or in yeshiva they won't know the activities that they do sometimes when they learn the activities the activities that they do that oh he was planting in the garden he was doing this it could it could be m the the aava just knowing more the details of what the child is >> is doing covered a lot of ground what are some because obviously um So what would you recommend books uh resources? you have any books was the cancer recommend no align any articles >> so there's a few books the there's a famous series by an author called Dawn Hubner uh what to do when what to do when you or what to do when you're uh there's a whole bunch of books what to do when you worry too much what to do when your brain gets stuck what and they're they're written for children and which is very good I I find very often And even for adults to read the child's book, even without the child, they learn how to present it, how to give it over. And when you're talking to a child, you have to break it down. So the child book breaks it down, which is very I find those children books very good. >> Don Hubner Don Hubner. Okay. There's um there's a book called Kosher ADHD by Simhka Chesner and Sar Makowitz which is talking about of course it's in English and you're a lot of your crowd is Yiddish >> a lot of the listeners are Yiddish speaking but it's a very good book and it's it's it connects ADHD with with the the Yiddish lifestyle >> right >> dinghas etc by the way >> while I'll enslave therapist therapist, you know, so as a side note in certain certain. So therapist issues, you know, and help problems you know so in the environment most of our anxieties are based you know >> yeah I will say everything spoken to a professional therapist is of course always fully confidential and uh most I speak for most therapists we don't walk around thinking oh yam hot and yam hot [snorts] it's it's we We don't we look at each person as a male and full of mileas and and we try helping them along the route and and no one's perfect. That's uh >> in a certain sense, you know, you you sit with someone issues. Okay, here's how you deal with it in how you dealt with it. 100%. >> Very interesting. Okay. So, what are some final advice for parents for anybody anxiety? >> A final message I would say to any ch any parent with is they have very often they have a life ahead of them. There may be a couple of tough years in school. Sometimes these these boys grow up to be the most energetic and the most successful in whatever they whatever they go into afterwards. Sometimes as a child they're more jumpy. They sometimes they use that in Bandish in in Tyra in learning. But there's definitely a lot of help. Of course, we have to in every step of the way, but there's definitely there's definitely very real hope for s for such children to lead and productive lives and for the parents to have tremendous nas and they should parents should focus on whatever the nakas that they are currently experiencing and try to try to work it out that they spend as much positive time with their children, create memories, whatever they are, be it vacation, be it uh bike riding in the park, try to create these memories and and to to to create more of a positive relationship between the parents and children and that's uh and and spending time and of course to be mispil that that we should all see from our children. Thank you. So um obviously the so as I hear over if somebody wants to get in touch with you he wants to reach you after hours. How can somebody get in touch with you? >> Well they can call for me in or they can email me. My email address is YD tanninbam ydtan nebu mgmail.com and I will try my best to find to give me an audience with and we'll have to follow this up. There's so much to cover in a few days to get covered.