Yiboneh Beit Midrash Presents Rabbi Aryeh Grossnass Part 2 "The Jewish Perspective on Drinking"

Heat. Heat. [Music] Today we're going to discuss one of the most common questions asked following Pur. Uh probably every major Jewish courthouse gets asked this question after Purim and that is very simply like this. Mrs. Cohen is just shued out the last drunkards. He's left and it's time to clean up. And as she's cleaning up, she notices on the floor there is a smashed vase. And this is not only a cheap vase which you pick up in Walmart or Tesco. This is a this is a nice vase. It's an expensive vase. And how did it happen? She finds out that her neighbor from down the road was very drunk. And whilst he was drunk, he smashed the vase. These things happen. It's very sad. What do we do? What do we say to Mrs. Cohen? She's dragging along. That's a good Jewish name. Mr. to Goldberg from down the road who was drunk and he smashed the vase. What do we say to them? Do we say he's drunk? What's he do? He's drunk. He wasn't aware. He didn't know what he was doing then. Or do you say net be a man? If you're drunk, you got to be reliable. Got to be responsible. Can't just throw it away. You can't just throw up responsibility like that. This is question number one. Question number two, this is a true story. It happened when I was in yeshiva in America. A bunch of guys a bunch of guys who went and pur to a party and they came there. It was a big party. He was a wealthy man before the story happened. And they were having a great time and this man really liked the bak from my yeshiva. I wasn't there at the time. They really liked him. And after being there for a while, he says, "Guys, which is Shiv from?" So they told him, he says, "Wow, I love you guys." And he takes out his checkbook and he writes $50,000. And he gives it to my friends. 2 days later, Marisha gets a call. He says, "Hi, this is Mr. So and so I had your boys over. Such nice boys. I'm so impressed. Um I you know I was a little bit drunk on Purim. I love gaming stalker but I wrote $50,000. It's a lot of money. I never meant $50,000. It was a mistake. It was it was it was an accident. I never in my right mind would have given $50,000. Then I don't know you guys. I'm sure you're a great yeshiva. What do we say to Mr. Richman? Let's call him. We've used Goldberg. We've used co Mr. Levy, what do we say to Mr. Rich Man, Mr. Levy, who wants to go back on his pledge of $50,000. These are common questions which occur every year, each in a different format. Every year different format. What we're going to do about this, let's have a look. It starts with the garra in Sam 658. It's four lines down. The garra says like this. Somebody who is drunk, his business dealings are meccal. His sales, things he sells, they are considered sold. If he was over our very he transgressed a sin which for that sin we kill Shabas um many others if you're over them you are liable for the death penalty misos even if he's drunk we still kill him malus malos if he's over a he transgresses a sin which you are of malus you get 40 lashes. 39. Then even though you're drunk, he receives every single lash he deserves. Cla the rule is he is like a like a wise man as opposed to a somebody who is mentally challenged. We don't let him off the hook even though he's drunk. Hello. With one exception when he is drunk, he is potter from Davening has a special den because you need to concentrate. You need to come in front of the king, king of all kings. So, he's part of we're going to skip one line. says that that we say somebody who is drunk he has he's got a he has the responsibility of all the mitzvah and all the except for we didn't teach it only if he doesn't reach the da the level of drunkenness of light we explained in the last sh that in hala we categorize drunkness in three levels. One level is called shui. Shashu means you've drunk. You've drunk. Not necess it's generally it's less than a review. Sometimes it could be more than reviews, but generally it's a small amount something like that of this style cup, you know, somewhere along here, you know, for illust illustrative purposes only. Um that's shi small amount. There's another level which is called which is that you can't talk in front of a meal in front of a king. If we'd have King Charles from England, our beloved king um then if he walks outside now and you have somebody drunk in here and you said you want to meet King Charles, you say King Charles, he can't he won't be able to hold himself in the proper man in front of a king. That is the next level which we categorize that that part is part of if he's at such a stage he exempt from davening. The next stage which is a very very extreme case of drunkardness is shik is being drunk like lit which is basically the stage is that he's not aware of his actions. He's just no clue what he's doing. um if he wouldn't if he'd be aware he wouldn't generally he wouldn't do what he's doing. Um okay. So we didn't say in the before that you're going to be in all the mitzvah and all the and you get any punishment which we give for these only that is before he reaches the extreme measure of drunkenness of light a but if he reaches the level of being drunk like light which is the very extreme case. Pot mullum he is scot free he walks off crazy you know guy can get drunk and he's potter from all mitzvah if he does a mitzvah he ain't get it guy shakes love when he's very drunk he davverns he does wherever it is if he's drunk to the stage that he's not aware of his actions doesn't get the mitzvah doesn't get that ver scotfree unbelievable Okay, let's now so if we think about the Shiloh, let's start with the first Shiloh with we've got a very frustrated Mrs. Cohen dragging in Mr. Goldberg, her neighbor, who has smashed an expensive vase. If she'd come in after seeing the Gamarra, what what would you think? What would we Pascin? What would be the the correct way to pass? We've seen the Gomorrah says he's for everything except he's if he's shik. So coming up this kumar you could say or dying would stroke his beard and you say if he was shika he was drunk but not to the level of shik shalote you'd be but if he's drunk to the stage of shik shalo he's part that's what I would say from seeing the garamar it seems like a pretty straightforward he's still obligated to pay or replace I don't know let's have a look at the gamarra what does garamar say garamar says if it's potter but if it's not shal all his business dealings are kayam they they are valid I would think from coming out of the gar at this stage don't jump the gun we're building up here we're building up the gar from this stage of the garra I would say he'd be he'd be potter if it's an extreme case but if it's not an extreme case and he's aware of his actions but he's just drunk then he'd be that's what we would seem for the gumar at this stage. Let's go to the shar and see how he quotes it. The next one number two there's a box there and there's a little says the last two lines on the page. Hashik one who is drunk. His business dealings are valid. His gifts they are valid. If he reaches the level of drunkenness of he is the one who does something. He does an action. He's not aware of what he's doing. He doesn't know what he's doing because he's so drunk. His actions are nothing. He is like a is that somebody who's me mentally challenged. He's he he's not liable. It's a gar. It's a mishna. I think it's pes or madalof. Um of a cotton is brought later. Let's have a look at it. That's the law. Pigosen raw. Meeting them is bad news. Why? Someone who damages them. He's liable if he damages somebody who's a is deaf and and anti and mute. Deaf and mute. Shan who's me mentally challenged. Cotton. Someone who is a a minor. He's under 13 under 12 for a girl. So if with them if you damage the if they damage others the potter says the that the den of somebody who is very drunk to the stage of light he has a d of a someone who's mentally challenged he's not aware of what he's doing. Okay. So it seems like the is going along with this. We have a clear which says somebody who is drunk but it's not an extreme case for whatever you do all your business transactions. But if it's shik shalo if it's a very extreme case you're like a sh you're like a mentally challenged person who a mentally challenged person if he um damages another person he is going to be potter okay so we've worked from the from the gar to the now there's a safer a very safer important safer on babakama it was written by the yamash Schlommer many years ago and he speaks about a drunk person who damages. Let's have a look. It's number three says the schlmer a drunk person even if he's at the stage of drunk to the stage that it's like the shik of light very extreme case this is in number three mo however I'll Alzheimer even if he's in the most extreme case. Unbelievable. It seems like it's a contradiction to the garra and to the but don't worry he addresses it that that we say in the garra imper the one which we just quoted before the shik someone who's drunk to the stage of light pot misusden he's potter from the death penalty malconus you don't give many malers we said in the in the Gumar before somebody do even if it's even if he's to a very very extreme case the is he's going to be so he says how can I tell you that you're going to be says that is the he's from the heavenly um the heavenly laws of on that specific ific sin or we call mock. However, he will receive his punishment, his his um judgment. Judgment. Yeah, that's a that's a good word. He'll receive his judgment on the fact that he didn't stop himself. He didn't stop the the basic self-control that he not to get so drunk to the stage of light. The answer says something amazing here. Even though we let you off the hook in Bezon, they can't kill you. They can't give you lashes. You've done this guy was on Shabas. This person I say killed. Yeah. This person killed someone. Even if he kills someone, you don't kill it. Intent. It's all done on intent. in yeah even intent remember the lion of the shak the language of shar he says he does something but he doesn't know what he's doing think of try and get this drunkard in your mind you have to like paint the picture a bit the guy's just being put in it's not so hard you know you walked past and there was a guy on the bus stop and he's lying like flat out there and then he slowly staggers off the bench and it's shabusman he I don't know what's is shabas he plants a I don't know how he manages to do that. He plants a tree. He drives a car. He's He doesn't know what he's doing. You knock him on his head. He doesn't know that anyone's there. Nothing. You have to understand the level of drunk. It's talking about very very extreme level. But says the true you don't kill him. But the abish to Hashem after 120 is going to say, "Mr. Goldberg, why didn't why couldn't you control yourself to the level that you you are over something at Shabas? You can control yourself to such a thing that he's going to be called um um um called to judgment on Rabbi Poston. Can I ask you underneath my Tillin bag over there I have a paper? Do you want to pass it to me? There is a very famous story with Winston Churchill. I checked it up so that no one checks it up after me and says it's not true. So, it's actually highly disputed if it's true. No, it's not disputed if it's true. It's disputed if he was drunk or not. But this story for sure happened. There's many different versions of the story. I will bring um the one that is befitting to say in a maj I'll read it out. It's from the international Churchill society. This world famous encounter occurred late one night in 1946. As Churchill was leaving the House of Commons, Bessie Bradock, Bessie Bradock, an MP saw Winston walking out of the House and Commons and she says this, "Winston, you are drunk." And what's more, you are disgust disgustingly drunk. Churchill said to Bessie, "Bessie, my dear, you are ugly. And what's more, you are disgustingly ugly. But tomorrow I shall be sober and you will still be disgustingly ugly. This was Church Hill's sharp line. It's very famous. That I may be drunk, but you're ugly. The next day I'm going to wake up. I'll brush off the foam from my mouth, clean up the sick, and whatever else happened. And I will be fine. I'll be the good old charming Winston Churchill. But the next day, Bessie, you will be ugly. Now I want to discuss after seeing this Yamasha Schllaymer is Winston Churchill all right. Is it true that the next day you can just say you know what's history is history or do you say it comes with you? You say if you're drunk and you're dis disgustingly drunk as Bessie Bradock says then maybe Mr. Churchill we love you dearly. He goes through the Second World War. Now, if you're drunk and you wake up the next day, you can't just wipe the foam off your mouth and you can't just clean up the sick. You were drunk. And as you're going to be the fact that you couldn't control yourself that you got to such a degrading stage, that's what the says. You might not be liable for various different aus you do when you're in a stage of shikalit a very extreme stage of being drunk but you're going to be held accountable that you let yourself to get such a place so if I can if they'd ask me if I can go back to 1946 and I was at the house of commons when Bessie Bradock made that comment to Winston Churchill I'd I' I'd pull Mr. Churchill aside if if the secret service uh would let I say Mr. Churchill that's not right. Maybe I'd wait till the next day until he sobered up and I tell him that no if you're drunk the next day you're also a drunkard. You may not be drunk then but you're somebody who cannot control themselves to the stage of being so drunk. Let's carry on. The yams the yams says what about mazic? about the stage of doing Hezek until now we've discussed being over Isra being doing transgressing sins when under the influence well what about says the toy yourself from the laws of damages it's so simple there's no question about it you are liable. Why says the word a person is always liable for his actions? Whether it's a mistake, being amazed, whether it's on when it's whether it's on purpose, whether he's awake, whether he's asleep. A person is liable for his actions. Even in his sleep, somebody goes to sleep and whilst he's sleeping, he has a very bad dream and there's somebody trying to get him. And so he kicks him in order to get him away. And he wakes up and he sees the light bulb next to him, his little uh um bedside table light is smashed and it's a hotel room. What is the hal? Do you have to pay? And the hala is he has to pay because a person is liable for his actions even when he's sleeping. It's a fascinating fascinating hal this one. Um they they do make one exception for somebody who's sleeping cuz if you think about it somebody goes to sleep he's not he doesn't know what he's doing can't blame him you know man's got to sleep. So in halaka it's already brought in the Xiaomi makes one one case where it's different and that is one exception if somebody goes to sleep and when he's going to sleep the light bulb is there before he went to sleep there is somebody puts on his bedside table an expensive vase and as he's going to sleep he knows the vase is there and in his sleep. He hits it and it falls on the floor and smashed to smithetheriness. He gets taken to basin. He's going to be But if in his sleep somebody comes along and puts a vase next to his next to him, then he's potter. Yeah, you know this one. I understand. Yeah, you can understand it, right? Yeah. Cuz it's not his fault. How can he be liable for something that got placed there when he was sleeping? It's not his fault. No. So that's one exception we have for Yoshan Bane owners bane roson a person carrying on the line from the yamash he's quoting a Mishna a person is always liable for his actions whether it was a mistake whether it's on purpose whether he's awake whether he's sleeping whether it was aus is a complete accident onus is somebody who there there's just like no way in the world it was on purpose sh is a mistake you know You could have you could have looked you could have been a bit more careful. There's nothing to do about it. Bane wrote some on purpose. This is the line. Even as he should also be why because he's not worse than he's not worse than the worst type of mistake that there is out there. And then he adds on another line. If you don't tell me that a like you won't be able to let anybody live that won't we won't be able to have a society a functional society. Every person who has an enemy, he'll drink and get drunk in his friend's property in order to damage him, right? It doesn't. Unfortunately, these things happen. You know, let's take a business partnership that's been known for many years and one of them does something to upset the other one and they end up bitter enemies. It should never happen. Let's say it happens. says, "Mr. Goldberg, who was best friends with Mr. Levy yesterday, and they become worst enemies, he doesn't want to pay if he goes and smashes up Mr. Goldberg's brand new Lamborghini." That's not something he wants to do. It will get him into big debts. So, what does he do? He goes just outside his Lamborghini, 2:00 in the morning, drinks an entire bottle of vodka. He waits five minutes and then he's totally totally hammered. He smashes up his Lamborghini. Potter I'm shiko. I'm potter says we can't have such a thing. Society can't function like that. It has to be even if he's shik is fascinating. Okay, let's recap a little bit. We started with the gumar. Gomorrah says somebody who is drunk but not an extreme case he is for all the mitzvah and all the everything he does except for that's only if it's a general drunkenness but if it's an extreme case then he's going to be we saw the says what that it brings down the mecc um mechan all his business dealing is valid but if it's potter adds on the words that he has a den of he has a d of a mentally challenged person then we saw the amma and explain the garra that says he's when it's what does it mean he's med from paying but he might be part but he he's going to have to din he's going to have to give judgment that he couldn't control himself and we explained on that that that proves Winston's Churchill Winston Churchill's line famous line to be wrong that a person who gets drunk cannot put it in the history person who gets drunk it's because of a lack of control and the next day you are still a person who doesn't have control you can work on it you can get rid of it then And says that a person who damages is not included in the Gomorrah that says your potter from everything you're going to be for Hez for damages you're going to be. We're going to have a look now at the Shilabach. This is box number four. Uh excuse me for the print. This is what it looks like. There is one newer print. It wasn't on this computer program I was using. Uh the Bach not the one who made all sorts of lovely music that's a different Bach. Um this Bach was a big many years ago. He wrote in the side the sh but this is in his sh this is in his response. It's number 62 and this is the middle of it. Somebody asked him a question and this question went very similar to the question we did asked today. There were a bunch of friends by a wedding. They were around the table having a lovely, lovely time. And slowly but surely, some of them got drunk and it happens from time to time. There's usually good alcohol around. You know, when's the last time you've had a Macallen 21? It's an exciting moment. And they started, sorry for those who don't know which scotch I'm talking about, but it's a lovely, lovely one. And they started to drink. It's a very, very nice occasion. And they started to drink and they became very very drunk and one of them in his drunkenness smashed something and a little piece went into his friend's eye and cause lots of damage as a shot of glass would do in somebody's eye. So they asked the bach is he liable for his damage? And this person who was drunk said what do you want? I'm drunk. How how can you tell me I'm drunk? I had no no type of control over any of my actions when I was so drunk. This is the argument being put forward by this very drunk person who hadn't seen Macallen in too long. So the Bach says if you think that's a good argument, think again. N why he asks it as a casher he asks it first says like this I the Gmorra says that somebody who's drunk a shik shalo he is totally totally hammered he has no idea he's not aware of his actions that's the way the shenan puts such a drunk then he's got a dinner of a shita he's got it's gone the mere fact of his statement then it shows that he was aware of his actions why rea his statement when he made a statement. He was fine. Let's get the date line. A date line. What's a good day for a wedding? Tuesday. Let's go Tuesday. Tuesday's a good day for a wedding, right? They get this guy gets drunk on Tuesday. He smashes a glass thing, goes into his friend eye. The next day, yeah, I'll give him a date to sober up. Thursday, right, Wednesday's still in bed. Poor fellow. Thursday, Mr. Levy calls our drunk fellow and he steps in into Bdon. He comes into the Bzdon. Mr. Levy says, "You see this eye? You can't see it. Neither can I because it's not here. It's because of him. A piece of glass went into it." And this guy who's he knows how to walk now because it's been a day or two. And he says, "Do you know how drunk I was? Do you know how drunk I was on Tuesday? He's putting forward this argument. I wasn't aware of my actions. You're not happy. I look I I can hear such an argument. If somebody's to a state he doesn't he's not aware of anything he's doing. I can hear such an argument. And he asks he asks it in a question. This question is the says that somebody who's has a den of a his way evaluate his intelligence and his halas his laws the way we treat him is like a sher somebody who's mentally challenged somebody mentally challenged we quoted the mission before pigosen ra if you meet a cotton a minor if you meet a sha somebody's mentally challenged pigosen ra bad news it's not a good meeting. Why? Cuz if you damage them, if they damage you, they're potter. Why? Cuz they're not. So they're not responsible. Whatever the reason is. So ask the if the says he's got a dinner, we said the mission is somebody who's mentally challenged. He's potter from all damages. So this person the shar says he's he's got a dinner of a he's got the law of a. So how can you how can I now tell you that it's not an argument the fact that you were so drunk the itself says he's got a dinner this is the question which he challenges his ruling and he explains like this that that it says in the brier sorry where are the it is 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 lines up. It's in the middle of the line. It says as after he's asked the question, excuse the print. You got it? Yeah. And it is not. So this is not a good argument to ask a question from the fact that the says he is a why says the gar doesn't say that when someone reaches the level of drunkenness like he's only to those that it says clearly In the bryer mecha it says business dealings misa the death penalty or malus and the penalty that you get [Music] lashes damages it never spoke about in the garan it was never it was never a discussion says you're for sure you're for sure liable he's got to answer the question why he's different to a says he was liable before he became a before he became the person who's not aware of his actions at all. He was liable then and he should have made sure not to get drunk. He's not like somebody who's mentally challenged because before you became a shik shalo which you then we say you are mentally challenged. You should have been careful then. Timeline 6:00 in the evening at the beginning beginning of the wedding. This guy's walking straight. He looks like a respectable individual. He's saying hello to people he hasn't met in a long time. 7:00 he sees the Macallen. He starts drinking. 8:00 he's a little bit tipsy. 9:00 he's shiko he's totally unaware of what he's doing says the b who who asked you to get so drunk who gave you the permission to get so drunk true now you're like a but before you weren't like a that responsibility before is what's m that's what says that you're liable it's what happened before at the time it's true what do you want from me I'm a shiko what do you want comes into saying I wasn't aware the back turned around him says no. It's true at the time you weren't aware but beforehand you had responsibility for your actions that makes you liable even when you're like a cuz you in yourself have responsibilities. So even at the time you're not you're not able to make decisions you're not aware of your decisions doesn't make no difference. Beautiful piece from the back. Let's let's finish it inside. He's he's he's going to take it to the next level. Let's see it. We should have this is five lines up. He should have been careful at the beginning that he doesn't get drunk like and damages the public who forced you who who encouraged you to get so drunk so much that you don't know what you're doing. The given since this extreme accident, extreme out of control incident that your shik happened because of yourself. This is what we've just said. You are the one who put yourself into the situation. It's your problem. What do you want? This is where he he says a he says a extra level here. Even somebody who's sleeping that it's not possible to be alive without sleep. Even this fellow who's asleep is liable for his actions and says that somebody who's sleeping, he's got to sleep. Before he goes to sleep, he's got an expensive vase next to him. There is he has no option but to go to sleep because he's he's got to have kus guy doesn't sleep how long can you not go for sleep for a day two days 3 days if you want to get in the Guinness World Records maybe 3 weeks but after that you're just falling on the floor it's not possible says the back the guy who's going to sleep he has to sleep he must sleep but he's still says the says the it's All the more so someone who's drunk to have a pusher go, he's totally totally negligent. Somebody somebody who's getting drunk, he has a choice whether to get drunk or not. I could I could not. It's up to me. I can choose whether to get drunk. I could choose whether or not to get drunk. But somebody who's going to sleep, he has to go to sleep. There's no two ways about it. So if we say somebody who goes to sleep whilst he's asleep, he's liable for what he does. All the more so somebody who gets so drunk that he doesn't know what he's doing just like someone who's sleeping he's going to be he's going to be liable. Why? Cuz who asked you to get drunk? It was your choice. It was your choice whether to get drunk. That's what the B says. Later in the B ch he talks about even even even if you want to say that you're not liable for damages. Let's say if you want to argue to me, no, the gar does mean it. And somebody who's so drunk, he's like a even if you want to say such a thing, then you have to bring a proof that you're so drunk. So, it's a fine line. It's a very fine line between somebody who's drunk and extremely drunk. That's the times when a person is drunk. I'm not talking from experience, you Oh, that's why the police officers are walking in a straight line. There you go. If a police officer sees you, he's just walking a straight line. He's got to make sure I see. It's the reason they have to they have to they find some kind of uh they have to they have to they have to determine if they actually you're on the right you qualify to be a real drunk. It's not. It's not. So, and even if you can't walk in a straight line, shiko is more than that. Shik shalo is could you crawl in a straight line? All right. If you can't crawl in a straight line, then you're probably shikoy. So, the back says you're going to have to bring a proof even if even if it's not true. So, let's go back to the two questions we started off with. First question is, Mr. Cohen, Mrs. Cohen, sorry. Mrs. K is very upset. Somebody has smashed a vase whilst he's drunk after seeing this. I think it would depend. No, actually think he wouldn't depend. It wouldn't depend. If he's drunk, you're always you smashed it. You're always nothing to talk about. Let's go to the next case. What's the next case? We have a rich Mr. Levy who gave my friends $50,000. And he says that I mean it. I'd never give Braim that I've never seen before to Yeshiva that I don't know about $50,000 is a lot of money. So he called up Morash and he says, "I want to go back." What do we tell such a fellow? So the gamarra before was discussing matis actually the gar doesn't bring the brings it into it says matis if he's drunk a regular drunk then his matonis even though he's drunk is cayam nothing to do about it he gave something you were drunk doesn't make a difference if he's shikit then he's potter if he's shik he's got dinner it's not like azuk It's not like damage. Matonis giving a present is different. Why is it different? You're not damaging. We don't have the reasons of the Yammer things are going to get haywire. Um we don't say by matonus that you for like an extreme accident. We don't say we don't say you're still going to be liable. Matonus are different to Hezek. So those those is is going to be the answer to those two questions seemingly. Oh, you're like, "Oh no, what's he gonna do now?" Seemingly. However, we're not going to go into this. There's another entire discussion about doing damages on purin. When one does damages and purim there's a special pure there's a special exemption because it's called the pur is mma sim if somebody damages because of exha but this simka has to be that it's a regular simka we don't have time to go into this then he's going to be potter and it depends the magnav brings down that if it's a hezigle so it's a really expensive vase then it won't be included. You'd have to pay for that. Some some posts say that if it's it only means if it's a if it's a damage to an item, but if somebody knocks his eye out or something like that where it's a to somebody's body, he's going to be That's right. That's right. That's a good job. So, that is what Yeah. So that is today's discussion come to a close. If it's not on Purim, it seems to be this guy who gives a donation even though he's drunk would be to keep to it. If the secret he's part of keeping to it if somebody damages when he's drunk he would always be. If it's on por it's another discussion depends on all different things. Thank you. Sure. My [Music] birthday sh Oh my n my