Taking the plunge! A Conversation About Har Habayis with Rav Daniel Myers

I'm sitting here with Rabbi Meyers, the RV of Kilat Minor Tamar and the minah of Tomra Minavote and the Rava of Net in Ramad. And we're here to discuss a very important topic, a topic that many people are not very familiar with, Harabas. So, thank you for having me. Many people, if not most, think of the holiest site for Yidden as the Kotel. But in truth, the Kotel is the retaining wall of the holiest site. When someone standing by the Kosel, they're they're outside the holiest site, which is Harbayas. Why do you think Harbayas is so overlooked? Why is there so little interest in in the holiest site for Yidden? It's a very good question. I think Jews are very very resilient and in whatever position we're put into we make the best of it. I grew up in Bal Harour and I learned in Faraki yes Shiva beautiful community and I drove on the way from Bal Harour to Faracway from one Jewish community to another Jewish community and in between uh the Rockway is a very undeveloped area and the people living there did not make the most of their neighborhood. It was just a rundown slummy area and that's how they lived. The Jews know how to build beautiful communities wherever. If we're in Persia, South Africa, America, wherever we are, we're very good at building beautiful communities, which is an amazing strength. We'll have mikvas and a kasheras and learning and yeshivas and we're so good at it that we feel we've made it and we're satisfied. Whether we're in Persia just 70 or 20 or 40 years after we're kicked out of the mikdash, we settle in and we have a beautiful community who needs to go back and our success is our failure. So therefore, if for a few thousand years we don't have the mikdash, after a few decades we're already used to not having it, 2,000 years it's just we have a beautiful community whether we're in Israel or we already have what we need which is not true but that's the psyche distorted psyche but it comes from our greatness but it's a failure as well in my opinion. So how did you personally get involved in Harbay if there's so little uh so little people so few people talk about it? It's a very good question. It's the role of Balabatim in in Amasur. a very wonderful Jew, Yosi Simons, about 10 years ago, maybe even more, and kept saying, "Raani, what what's with Harabas? What's with Harbayas?" I said, "Maybe one day I'll have Zakus to look into it. Maybe one day, maybe I'll take a sabbatical one year. Maybe I'll look into it." And he pushed and he pushed and he pushed and he didn't let go. And I think it's a very nice message from Balabatim. Sometimes they should push the rabbis. The rabbis are the ones who push the people the valab but some should push the rabbis as well and not settle for a par or vague or gray kind of answer and he pushed me and pushed me. decided for two years every Shabbat afternoon we're just going to go through this again and see where it takes us going to the Gmoras and the Rishon all the chas and and safe one after another and eventually came to the conclusion I think that it's the right thing to do how many years have you been going up about seven eight that have yeah tremendous every at least once a month wow I wish it was more but at least the one thing that most people do know about Harabias is that it's user that many raim prohibit going to to Harabas. Why in your view is it mutter to go and how would you respond to the main challenges raised by the people who oppose going? It's a very very good question. It's a very delicate question. Uh I am very to all the different in the worlds of the Torah in my which is a data mish you walk in on the wall you have all the in my school which is a school you'll have all of them so I want to teach respect for all I love and respect all from all theatim and that's important that we have that respect for everyone on the other hand it is possible that even great people can make a mistake. It's possible the opening mission in Hus is where the whole Sanhedrin makes a crucial mistake on a bodar or something. So there is such a possibility that's brought down in the ra and this week's para we just read 10 gdole made a mistake and only two the minority. So you say okay we see that but luckily how do you deal with the rove? So it's a very good question. The binding rove is when you have a Sanhedrin sitting and everyone's together and there's a robe everyone heard each other out and then but when you have different rabbis around the world sitting here sitting there and they're not together and many posts can talk about the fact that that's not the robe where we're bound classic where permitted you to make a knife on Shabas if that's necessary to do the if the knife broke cuz He permits Maki and the Gumar says that his town followed him in an isser of skiila and they were blessed because they followed thereof ro were against him but it wasn't a robe. So over here we don't have robe we might have the majority of rabbis at this point saying not to go although more and more rabbis are coming around but it's not be bound and yes I think as I said in the previous point that we've had 2,000 years of a certain status quo sometimes it's hard to see new possibilities and a beautiful quote that I love to use Many of my holy brothers say you can't do something new. You can't do something new. The the famous from Europe, the reform movement bringing an organ into the he took the into the point of just new things. So I agree we have to be very careful about new things. But that is telling us There's aesh that we want when the is going back to that's not that's going back to kadab. So you have to differentiate between a kadesh like bringing an organ into the sh of mimicking the reform movement where you're just bringing the entire mitzvah back and we have to remember our advice is not one specific mitzvah our goal of bringing the mikdash is 200 mitzvah a third of the Torah that we're missing connected sedrin and tuma and tahara lea regal 200 mitzvah so yeah what we want to do is not do something new but you want to go back to like it was in king sol where we had 613 mitzvah. So it's kadesh but it's and that kind of kadesh we have to run after but many rabbis who I love and respect are just you know stay with the status quo and are there sources to back it up because it's going to fall down from shay you could find sources but I think the simple is we need to move forward in order to go back very nice can you explain the different areas of harbias I think there's a big misconception a lot of people think that going on harbias car race. Can you explain the different locations and how we know where you can and can't go? Yeah. Yeah, it is very sad. It's very sad. If I'm not mistaken, the Raanut says is I don't know what the exact sign before you come to the landing there to Harabas where the Raanut says are entitled to their opinion but anyone that says that is Harabayas it's unfortunately it's just a sign of ignorance of Amoratus and not is there I I just respectfully disagree with that position but if someone a layman says Harabias is It's just a sign of ignorance. He doesn't understand this at all. So we have that we just read invar and so the three camps in the midbar and this just opend it's all open. It's just open again and again that you have the three areas in the midbar the mahina where the Mishka was around there was the levim around them is the mach is and then the is all in that who has to leave the inner area just about everyone tame za then the and then even in the inner area of the azara only calling god all certain times he could you know in where he could go Then you have the mah or the post can say that is the so what are the are there so tumism that was fine Moshe carried y's scoffin in the levim area oh so you can be have a mace and certainly Tommy mace could be there just open and but anyone else you would say has to leave the har area so we have to go they have to go through the of learning that how to remove that kind of tuma and then ms has to leave cannot be by the k We don't have them today. These are just open. What happened was I think there's a little background needed here. Ask any post ask whatif was doing until the day he died. What was he doing? He was trying to materunas. So as he was dying, he was trying to there was aa and he was trying to figure out a way to free her up. And Moshe finds the 911 holocaust. Poskin did everything to find a way to mater these women who were stuck. Auna is an ogen, an anchor. An anchor on a boat is very good. An anchor to a husband where they're getting along fine is beautiful. An anchor where the baston said he has to divorce her. He's a Russia and he's ignoring the bast or we just don't know where he is. 911. She's in a she's stuck. The rabbis will do everything to find a hetra and they'll take unbelievable responsibility because you're playing with no adultery where she's still married. That's it. And if she has a kid from the new husband, he said, "Mom's there." Even if it was a mistake that the god made, he said, "Mom, you're playing with the most serious." But for the rabbis, they have a value and I agree with that value of seeing can we free this poor woman and they will leave no stone unturned and try to find a legitimate hat over here. Where are we coming from Harabayas? Is it oh my gosh we need to go ahead. This is a value harbias and pushing towards mus is a value. If we look at it that way, we will literally leave no stone unturned in our search to find the Azara Harbayas and where everything is. We're going to study the topography and the archaeology and the history and the misoro. We're going to look into it because it's a value and we're going to search and find everything just like a god is going to do for the auna case and just like a god is going to do for many cases. woman's a need then constant problems of tus mishbah maybe only this the first and the seven days and not the every day that because that's a value to have tahar in the mishbah so they're going to try to find a legitimate way is there a value to coming back tabas and to pushing the mikdash agenda if there's a value then you're going to look and look and find then I think in my humble opinion the more you look you're going to see wow there's a misora this topography, this archaeology, but if it's not a value, so just like I don't know, it's a suffix. Let's just stay away. Let's just stay away from the whole place. So I think it's a bit of a chicken and an egg sugary in my opinion. What if someone's worried that if they go on harbias, they may by mistake enter an area that they're not allowed to enter. Right? So then once you hold this of value, then you're not going to make new gazer. You're gonna find out halically where each area is and you're gonna follow the hala properly and you're not going to make new gazas. If you don't want the value, maybe I'm going to step in the wrong place. Maybe I'm going to go in the right place, but someone's going to learn from me and go to the wrong place. Maybe I'll go to the mikvah and I'll go to the right place, but someone will go and not go to the mikvah. Once it's not of value, you can make up any gazer you want. And the rabbis want to make them new tako then link them to what they want. But in my opinion that's but it all comes back to if there's a value then you're going to go with the din. Okay. Now besides for gazer what if someone is just worried personally they'll go on harbay and they don't know exactly where the boundary is and they'll enter an area that may bear right. So borrow hashem bar hashem there are holy jews from the opening hours. sad the opening hours are so minimal but that's going to change but for those few minimal hours that we have each day from seven for a few hours and then the afternoon for a few hours there's only always Jews that are there and the path is a path so as long as you're going I always tell everyone always go with a group don't just go up on your own go with a group and there's always groups in the 7:00 is when I go you have holy people and always go with the people then you know you're going on the path and then you're going to find you oh maybe I'll overstep it's you're with the group that's on a clear path and the value of course is there's so many values to it first of all in all due respect to people that want to go to presidentashana I have no problem want to go dab there you want to go to the ram's kev you want to go to this kev you want to go to Europe to the latest famous kev I I I'm not cynical against those people. They want to go and they find themselves unlifted. Don't talk right to the maze because have shad shame. If you find that meaningful and you're postexically visible for that, I have no problem. But there's only one place in the world that's called Shamay and it's nowhere else. That's Shamim. And the Gmorrah talks about the special sagul. Everyone wants the school that I'm not anything against any sigas. I'm not I'm not being my man who's against all things. I'm not. But you want a schula. The garra tells you. The garra tells you that person lost an object. You didn't know where it was. He went to d on harabayas. It was found. Person was sick. He went to d it was found. That's shi shamayim. And everyone's looking around the world for all the different places and let them d whatever is inspiring. But we have an objectively spiritually elevated place. And then We have to seek out the rais Oh my gosh. you I think you base he talks about he goes onto a tangent and he says 70,000 Jews were killed at the end of base per and right I don't know why Raman says I'll tell you why because they went for hundreds of years where the corbanos were in this temporary Mishkan and no one asked to build a mdash dov wanted to he fulfilled the children said no you're not the right one and shame on them. Shame on them. Ramb says you have to seek out you have to be involved in the para and and work towards it and then that's going to bring us to the next step to the 200 m just the 200 m missing and we have to have that yearning and that search so that feel is there the search is there and in my opinion the pinion habas is going to come from kashar and if they did Our holy ancestors didn't drain the swamps of Petik for 100 years ago and risk their lives and die from malaria we wouldn't have today and all the more so people say no no no there's no kush in har it's the greatest and if there's kush that's the ultimate place and to go ahead and leave our enemies there bowing going down with their backs to the holy of holies. It's a and what does it say when we just like just stay away? It means that we're just we are part of it. We're leaving this and we're just sanctioning it. So therefore by us going up it's kish that's how we're going to get to the next step just like the last 200 years show that practical kish has led to what it's led to and didn't it just happen and yes you could quote the raja's going to fall from shay but except for that source and even that you can learn a lot of different ways the natural things that we see happening here is our actions push things forward and then we have the best partner in the world hashem blesses our actions when he sees that we're partnering with him and for 18800 years we didn't come to Israel in a serious way. God said, "I'll wait. You're waiting. I'll wait." And I think he'll do the same thing with the mikdash. You have Israel, but you don't want the mikdash. Fine. I'll wait. Like, so what are we doing here? But not pushing the next step forward. That's how it's been. That's how it's history showing clearly. If we're talking 300 years ago, everything was going to be with the wing seagulls. God's going to fly us on the wiggle things and he's going to drop the mikdash. But nothing happened that way. It all happened by us moving along practically and then God blessing our actions. In these days it's a side point, but everyone's talking about Hashem. Hashem, Hashem, Hashem, Hashem with Iran. Hashem destroying Iran. Hashem destroying Iran. I say thank you, Hashem destroying Iran. But thank you for partnering with Sahal. It's it's a it's a partnership. So that's regarding destroying our enemies. In times of hero, God partners with our actions. And we have to literally have our boots on the ground. Whether it's an army or whether it's kush of the harabayas. Very nice. What requirements are there for someone who goes on harbias before the aliyah and on the har? Great question. Great question. Like every person has to really learn it well and have to guide him with all the different shas and the mikvah and he has to have and basically we are the we assume a man is too carry so therefore he has to go to the mikvah there's a debate in the post game if he goes the mikvah Tuesday morning then he can't go right to he have to wait till the next day Okay. And the different cheetah is that way. But most post have come out with the conclusion that you go on that day. You don't have to wait for the night. But each person should go with this postc majority I think are saying that way. A need of course a woman that's a whole another subject of discussion. What about a need? Because then you have she's when she's need she certainly can't go. But even if she's not in she's with her husband then she is pa that's all the discussions there as well. So these all have to be worked out and just like a husband wife goes to rav in the kitchen about tus. So here too you have a rav to guide you and have the proper uh on the mikvah and had the woman makes woman make a she dunks makes a then dunks again as I would imagine. So even the different shittas the now they have this phenomena of mikvah coming back for men again first time in 2,000 years go every day and that's a beautiful minhag but this is phenomena where you going from toah do we make a when do we make a do we just follow the woman's minh what about the woman's they took upon themselves that they cut the nails and they cut everything down and all the of the ina do we take unbelievable and of course everyone agreed and eat that's par and everyone usually have to go to the mikvah there's some discuss the possibility of a mayan flowing river because maybe we're zav those all discussed for sure and but that's the basic gist of it and on anharbias and then on harbias of course it's uh raaran lutenstein said uh where he gush is fascinating because two rashisha go and one rashisha male you know does not go which is classic gush where you know they're open to have different opinions. Rav Aron and Raf Amitab there's a famous picture of Amitab 40 years ago on Harabayas the founding Russ of Gosh and Rafaran says I I I fear for the day where people taking selfies on Harabayas that was his line he didn't ask he just didn't want a callless rush we take pictures goes up every few weeks we go together have a picture it's not it's not like hey isn't that a fun tourist attraction no it's in order to put out the picture for people to see and hopefully to encourage more to No, but we have to be in a very serious state of mind. We're in the highest degree has to be serious rush not feel of course is a serious one. You go without shoes without shoes. is either wear no shoes or you wear you know like a young kind of a shoe and uh then you have the in the postim can you do on or that's only is only in the area it's a discussion most are doing many people are singing's famous song in they want to learn from there that ah it's It's not only the but is not so sure once again you talk to your post and whatever he does if he says no I'm nervous about it so then you go with a towel and when you put your head down put a towel there so it's a but as I said most are not so once a person's in like any rice cake anything and you follow the straight through the mitzvah the rice of mikdash applies to the whole ah very good and then you have the mikdash about going there in the proper way you not have a money belt out and you keep all you know keeping all those as well. else you have proper mora mikdash not having kalis rush as we mentioned that's such a good point that you mentioned the concept of mor mikdash and yes and uh we hope that applies to that area some people argue that going on harbias um is a provocation and it causes tension how would you respond to that claim so throughout his writings talked about not starting you don't start with the umos don't start with the nations and he very much had that approach which certainly is entitled to and it's really the opposite of the concept of kish karitz means we're going to take over the land and the gim are not going to be happy with us that's what it means but you don't see the term kisharitz in rash's writings you know that was not his approach which isn't his approach kish means we're going we're conquering or we're going to purposely just incite you for no reason we're going to see an Arab and just go ahead and go Right. Of course not. But we're going to do the mitzvos of kush in a smart way in in a realistic way. So I'm not going to go and buy myself to Ramala and say, "Okay, let me do kush and all the Arabs get out now." That's not practical in any sense of the word. But but to go the way we've done, look at the rabbi movement. We've gone. We've slowly gone slowly gone. We did with a lot of wisdom without antagonism. Anyone who goes up, the police are our allies, not our antagonists at all. There's they'll make amend for us, the firm ones, even the non-firm ones. It's such a beautiful relationship that we've developed and it's not antagonistic. And a perfect example when Benishov said is mutually I say it's fine. Third world war is going to break out. Hasn't happened yet. We have a war going on. That's a good war that we started and that's Hashem on our terms. That's the gosh darn where's the third world war and there wouldn't be a bigger threat than what's going on now. Meaning who are we going to antagonize? Who's going to start up with us? Hamas, Iran, we're already fighting with all. Exactly. So that concept of starting with the nations was very very concerned about that. Kush means doing things that people won't be upset. But that that's what kush is. I don't think the seven nations were thrilled to be kicked out of Israel by Yeshua. But that's where it goes. I think this ties in also to the point before that that people don't see a value in going on Harbayas. If if Harbach was valuable to people, then people would care less about antagonizing. Like if going to the Kotel would would antagonize, right? If if Kamas would threaten that they're going to fire rockets if he'll go to the Kosell, probably most people would would not say, "Okay, let's just stop going because there's a value to the Koso." But Harbayas doesn't have a value. So that's why people are worried that oh if we go to our holiest site it's going to cause a very good point I think that chicken egg argument really goes very very far very very far meaning is this something that we value if it is then we're going to push it we're going to push the envelope if we don't value it then you're just going to find a dozen reasons why you should stay away one of them is provoking car is this that just endless reasons so I totally agree but you should just know in terms of the provocation it's just the opposite As I mentioned that beautiful we have the police there. Every every time I go I see the wonderful Drews police lives up north and he comes back and forth stays a couple days in Jerusalem then goes back. We give each other a big hug. We love each other. This mom should feel love and he's doing an amazing thing helping us and working with us. It's beautiful. He can't get for the He's a gentile a righteous gentile but that relationship. So, eight years ago, the first time I was there, I was getting a little sheer because that you're allowed to. But I was shuckling. So, the police told me, "No, can't." I said, "But I'm I'm getting you hear me. I'm not Ding." Yes. But they're very brisker. The police back then it's a mice. It looks like a mice cuz doing that looks like me. that all this lumbus that it looks like even though I'm even though I'm I'm learning and where we are nowaday so it's a beautiful process I hope when you do the right thing in the right mitzvos don't be suicidal and just do something which is clearly impossible by going to a model on yourself and conquering it but do things where maybe this could happen maybe that could happen but it's clearly a mitzvah in your opinion you do it and Hashem there's going to be and just like this war and BV has been saying thank you Hashem there's a partnership down here with the army and with Hashem so too there's a partnership where we're pushing things forward and Hashem is blessing and we see the progress and how does this progress come by more and more people coming to our consistently more and more people coming and they see that we're there and they see that we're serious and the Arabs and the rest of the world just sees it. But we're moving ahead. It's very important. Very important. And I I'll finish off with a very very important concept. That's an amazing question for me was the Rav in my year. There's a lot of briskers, but for me the Rav was tremendous influence on my life. And he said, "Why is it you go ahead? I have a Clementine tree in my yard. Planted it 25 years ago. have done no work whatsoever. Like many limb, you come with money and you make a beautiful garden and you have the watering system and then as time goes on, you run out of money and it breaks and God's taking care of the watering. Okay? And tens of thousands of clementines over the last 25 years. And I've done zero work except pick them and take Truman. I've done no work and I say 20 words to thank him. So the Rav answers, "Amazing. Why are we going ahead and just giving a few words of praise and thanks to Hashem over the Clementine where he gave us a free gift, no work?" And the bread worked like crazy. He said, "God doesn't value us just being takers from him. He wants a partnership with us where we partner and we work and we have all the elements of producing the bread with all the aspects and guided by what shabas and he wants that partnership with us and that's what we've done building our purchase for the last 200 years that's what is going on now with parabas that partnership so that's what god values for us to be going in and sitting back and he does all the driving. That's not the on Hashem. He could have he would have set up a whole different world. What would you say to someone who says, "Well, if the gdole aren't going up, so why should I go up?" Yeah, it's a delicate one for in terms of there are some golam but that do go up and you know support it. Yeah, for Rosha Slar of Tendler of course went up until his dying day and you have Rav Dovalior and great Gdoleanim that go up but many Gdolan do not maybe even the majority it's possible to say that um so in my opinion it's a bit of a delicate point a delicate point we we discussed the hakic aspect of ro and its binding another aspect is if you look back in Jewish history the last 3,300 years 3,500 years Jacob's children come down to Matrayim him as a gare as strangers and they should be there temporarily to get out and Cleaka says they took hold of it and he's critical because right away they got settled in and then eventually we're so settled in Mitim as slaves no one wants to leave 20% leave according to the med 80% they didn't want to go they weren't ready to go then we finally make it to the Midbar all the special People get out of mit, the unique ones, the sadik and then we get stuck in the mid and the majority are stuck in the midbar. The majority for three times already going down to Egypt, staying in Egypt at the time of the Exodus and then staying in the midbar and then we get into Israel and a few hundred years later we're kicked out and the majority stay where in Bavl and the majority consists of layman and rabbis alike. And now this is the fifth time where so many Jews, the majority Jews are still in Larretz, rabbi and layman alike. And even the rabbis here, they were here. So they made aliyah or they were born here. But let's keep the status quo. Let's let's not move on to the next chapter. Now the mikdash when it comes to Israel matters. To me, it seems the majority just want to hold on to status quo. is status quo. Staying in Egypt, stay in Egypt. Staying in the midbar, we'll stay in the midbar. In Persia, we'll stay in Persia. Staying in Israel without the Mikdash, we're going to do that. So, I know it's a bit of a a challenging statement, but when it comes to the majority of the layman and the rabbis, too, is the Israel topic is not a simple one besides the points we mentioned about Roof earlier. Very nice. Is Harbayas dangerous? Is there a physical danger of like being attacked on harbias? So uh people do ask me that and uh never ever did I feel danger there. The majority we have 30 40 50 of Jews going up and you have dozens of very well-armed police all around us and no one is saying boo. If there was from the Arabs 7 8 n 10 years ago were going to go ahead and make noises at us. nothing. They don't have that because they'll just be kicked off. They'll be kicked off. So practically psychologically they're in the state of fear and practically we have the police around us surrounding us. I've eight years there felt zero fear nothing you go ahead you walk around there's 10 11 at night by yourself anything can happen protect everyone but here we have tremendous protection you could only go with a police escort and you could only go with so it's to me the safest place on earth if you ask me that do you have a parting message for the audience yeah yeah I guess one of my favorite favorite lines I from the always take it to mean that we hope to live and be here when the Messiah comes and when the gula happens. He said and he let our eyes see it. Meaning of course I want to be during Msiah but I also want to see it. The famous song anavimman. That song is from the medish. Starts off with the mashia on top of the mikdash telling everyone hello the messianic air is here. Mean people are blind to it. They're blind. It can be mean in front of eyes. They're blind because it didn't happen the way they imagine it's going to happen. That's what's going on now. And so many of our holding brothers who I love dearly and respect, but in this area they're just missing the greatest show on earth. the return of the Jews, the fertility of the land, the signs of the gula are all here and that's please let me see it. So, so too just like we should see them gathering the exiles and the brah of the gula and the fertility of land in another half a year a year we're going to have rove Jews the first time in 200 five or 600 years a majority of Jews here there's so much going on so too hopefully we can open our eyes that that gula process the endgame is the tayag mitzvos ali the bas mikdash and we need to see that that's happening also You can be on the side or you can be part of it. I have a beautiful picture in my office, a picture of the gahula process of the mikdash here and people love to dream. It's just going to plop down from shamine. No, I don't think so. It's going to come by us pushing it forward and it's happening. And just like I hope all of our holy brothers perceive the gula process and join in on it. So too, I hope that everyone sees the gula process of the mikdash that's going on in front of us and join in and don't be left behind and what is to be part of this process that's going to bring 200 mitzvah complete mitzvah and hashem we should all be blessed to see the process to be part of it and I always like using the phrase to take the plunge literally and figative literally you got to go to the mikvah and take the plunge by diving into the saga and helping bring the back to Israel in Israel. Amen. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. It's my pleasure. Thank you for the honor. Bigus bigus. Thank you.