When Tisha B'Av Falls Out on Shabbos - The Wide Ranging Ramifications

this torah class is brought to you by torahanytime.com okay good morning rabbi here we are it's the uh ready holding in the nine days ready approaching tish above in fact this is our last year before tish above and this year tish above is in a unique situation as it was last year because tishbo comes out on shabbos in fact i remember when i was a kid um it was the year tishabhav came out on shabbos i was 12 years old actually very close to my bar mitzvah and it was the week before my bar mitzvah and i was walking to shul where my environment was going to be the next week so shabbos tish above we were walking to shul my bar mitzvah was going to be pasha's vascanan and i come to the corner i look in the distance and the shoal was no longer the shul had burnt down on tish above the week before my bar mitzvah avenue and ocean avenue one of the biggest shoals maybe the biggest show in flatbush it burnt down on tishbo this tishb so um what we have is a very unique situation when tish above comes out on shabbos we know that the fast day is pushed off till sunday and the question is and what we're going to delve into is how do we view this situation where tishawa comes out on shabbos and instead is pushed off till sunday so we begin with the rush the russian tinus is the rush says as fallows the rash quotes says when tishb comes out on shabbos called sarcoid a person could eat whatever he needs um he could put on his table like the feast of solomon in his time he refrains from nothing he refrains from nothing you don't have to say well it's really tish above so i'll just eat bread and drink water i won't eat my favorite dishes i won't fill myself up to capacity no eno my name is there are no restraints says the rash what does this imply kaloimar noi nimnamerakitsa this implies none of the restrictions are in effect your ladder wash this not only does not one practice available not only does one not remove their shoes not only does one not refrain from eating not only does one not refrain from washing or anointing with oils even dvaram shabbat sinha even there are no restraints okay this is what the russia is madayak from the safta okay so according to the rush there are no re restraints okay probably no mayor's al khasab the is none other than the rebbe of the rash who's the review of the rush rotenberg casa the is review now why how would a nice jew who wrote a safer or zarua get a name rabbitzhak i mean if his name is like why would he call it or zarua well he writes that he was writing a commentary on sheamus bhigitan and he had the following question how do you spell the name akiva is akiva spelled ayan kuf yud vais alef or ayan kuf you advaz hey so he had a dream and in his dream they showed him the following passage and at first he didn't understand what what is the meaning of the dream then he realized and from there he realized akiva is spelled with a hay we don't ask in that way we pass again it's spelled with an aleph their other muslim um you're not allowed to engage in matter relations all other availas is one and done all of us is put aside except for tashma shamita is astor why did he have it's like burying the dead on the regal what's the halal of somebody buries their relative on regal the same way if someone buries their dead on yomtif even though there's no available sir um so too antiship even though there's not available on shabbos now you may make the case that there's a big difference between tishoba and abelas this concludes the words of my review well says marami rosenberg the words have emanated from my holy rebbe and therefore every jew needs to follow it that tash the house of god is worthy enough to make us lose out on one visit a year on one responsibility here well says marami rotameric even though i have what to ask of my reviews there are many differences between tisha b'av and availas like we say in paraka highlights the proper thing is to imagine like rebbe why if my rebbe was makil and i was mahmeer i would still tell you to follow my rebbe certainly in this case where i'm mako and he's mahmeer you should be mahmoud like my robbie who make of anima how you learn alaska's kid laura the kosher king shahu mahmoud writes that even though the toysephtha implies that tashma shamita is mother nevertheless reviewed me vino says it's us and if my review says it's us or case closed it's an open and closed case even though there's what uh dingzuck even though there's a lot to ask we're going to follow the sack of my rebbe so far so good right okay it's only limited to available that's the only ramification okay so the according to my abuser is asser by the way phones going off are not only us on tishbov but and even when tishrov comes in on shabbos you can't have them go off but even on a regular monday morning even though though it's not sure all the phones should be off as well how about big [ __ ] jobs that's a separate discussion okay if a person goes every single shabbos well for some reason when it comes to tissue it comes down to shabbos all of a sudden everybody wakes up that they go to the mikvah they've never gone to mcmahon last seven years also they need to go to the mickman if somebody's not a regular mikva going they can't come now um now one would expect one would expect that if the marami rotenberg is being showing deference to his rebbe rabitsakamivina you would expect the rush to likewise show deference to his rebbe the marami ruthenberg no the rush has a mind of his own says the rash what could i tell you miu lashantay the language of the toy sefta implies that we do not refrain from tashmesh because it says there are no restraints says the rush and that is the minogue the minogue is tashma shamita is mutas ismata so bottom line when it comes to dvaram shabbat sinha sides with his rebbe the rash says mutter the tacef is mashima what we would like to do is we would like to identify what is the nukudasamachalikas what are they arguing about what is the point of dispute between the marami rothenberg and against the rush what exactly is the point of dispute i will point out that for ashkenaz surprisingly is not like the rush manager is like obviously and marami ruthenberg the macabre that [Music] what we would like to investigate is what exactly is the macholicas we know tish above in general is pushed off to sunday you're allowed to eat on shabbos you had a drink on shabbos on shabbos yet when it comes to tasha shamita there's this we shine them what's the math like this and this has many many ramifications halal myself okay we begin with the sichuan cipher the ksab soifer and simon kuf alef brings down two gemaras one is the gemara magillada attack and base and one is the gemaran tinus khaftes ahmed base the first kamara is the sheet of rabbi reby says the gemara rebbi b cash lacquer tishaba rebbie wanted to approach above when he was i think he would get a lot of jobs right rebbe wanted to be our criticism he wanted to uproot says what happened was tish above came out on shabbos and they pushed it off to something says rabbi once you're pushing it off forget about it right you know that sign when you come into brooklyn forget about it right so that's what he says once tish above is pushed off should this be oykered completely it's pushed off but you have to fast anyway on sunday let's talk about the [ __ ] of rabbi i asked you a question historically the night of tisha when everyone's sitting on the floor crying what happened to the vasa mikdash at that point nothing and in the morning when everyone's sitting on the floor saying kenneth starving thirsty what happened to the basement nothing and when everybody gets up to watch all the movies that hello what is it what is what happened to this version of that time nothing it's only at the end of the day when we're about to when everybody has on their mind what what's in the omelet only then the gemara says they set fire to the base of mikdash and they they um they make this burnt when on the tent says wait a second if i was there if i was around i have a um right elmo i would have made tish above on the 10th the beginning of the paranas is worse in other words the beginning of the punishment is worse okay gotta turn that off the beginning of the punishment is worse the beginning of the burning is worse so i have a question for you raviyah holds that really tisha should have been able should have been established on the tenth day of but what could we do what could we do you know they didn't they didn't listen to him is licking his chaps this year loves this year you know loves this here because this is a dive suzanne this is the way a tishma was supposed to be on the 10th normally in a normal year nobody's listening to abiyah but at least this year got his wishes this is this year tish above is the way it's supposed to be according to ravi so with that analogy clara is the following khakira on a year like this year where tish above is coming out on shabbos when we push it off to sunday how do we view sunday do we view sunday that really tish above the shabbos but what could we do you're not a fast on shabbos so sunday is a makeup for shabbos really tish above with shabbos sunday is a makeup day it's like a rain out you have a ticket and it got rained down so you have a makeup you could go in and go the next day and cash it on your ticket it's sunday makeup or do we say no since you can't fast on tish above on a year like this year the mark above on sunday especially in light of rabbi then anyway tishb was supposed to be on the 10th so in such under the circumstances is was not on shabbos under the circumstances tish above was established on sunday you hear the difference do we say tishba the shabbos but what can we do so we need to push it off to sunday or no under the circumstances that we have this year there were koivei tishma on sunday in the first instance so you'll ask what's an afcomina either way the upshot is you're fasting on sunday who cares whether it's really shabbos and pushed off to sunday or it was established on sunday to begin with i tell you it makes a big afcomina you know what the nafta meena is pratash meshamita anchan if you say that really tish above is sunday element you can have available for hustle you can't not eat on shabbos you cannot wear shoes on champions you cannot wash your hands on champions so therefore we have to do all those things on sunday yeah but varam shabbat sinha things that are are personal nobody knows about that you could be knowing on shabbos and therefore tasha amita will be also on shabbos and that is the opinion of rabitsrakmiveena and that is the opinion of the marami rotenberg that beaker that the icker or tish above is shabbos element there are certain hanhogoists that we're not out of conductors in myself so they get pushed off but those hanukkahs that you're allowed to conduct yourself on shabbos remain on shabbos but if you say no on a year that tishb comes out on shabbos they were never established to shabba van shabbas it was established on sunday like himself would say like siri then like the toysepto says shabbos it's nothing it's like shabbos shushan purim shabbos is a regular shabbos yeah it's it's arab it's about but it's not that is the [ __ ] of the rush so they say foreign points out that according to this khakira of the sofa of how do we view tisha that gets pushed off to sunday do we view it as a makeup day or to view it as under the circumstances that's the way it was established that would make an afghan about varaham shabbat sunnah on the shahadas now la maisa the minha is to the mahmir and shabbat sinha that would seem to indicate that what that really tish above is and sunday is a makeup but we're going to see that's not the case let me tell you another amazing nafkamina anybody here born on your ab no not yet anybody know anybody born on yoda okay you know we could still be friends um but there are people in this world who are born on youtube and if you're born on yodav when will your bar mitzvah be you have well let me tell you a story about a kid who was born on yodav and his bar mitzvah came out on yodaf the only thing is the ninth of that year were shabbos and the ninth of that year was shabbos and it gets pushed off to his bar mitzvah day what what a treat his bar mitzvah day called falls out on tisha does he have to does he have to um does he have to fast on tish above that year so let me ask you a question does a child under bar mitzvah have to fast on the dalai tanism no no no when the kid is whatever 9 10 11 12 you build them up to start fasting on onion kippur there is no halacha that a kid under bar mitzvah fasts for the dalai tanism in fact there is a there's a uh how do we call it the world says that before a kid is bar mitzvah there he has to fast three times do you ever hear that yeah well says no such thing you do not have to fast three times before about a minute in fact if someone would say there are three things that people say you have to do three times and none of them are true and this is one of the three one of the three so there's no nadal oh what are the other two is there um say what are the other two things that you have to do three times oh one of them is people say in order to take out a safer torah you have to lean from it three times you don't have to all right maybe so we got two out of three so far um hopefully remember the third does this child who becomes bar mitzvah on tish above on urav does he have to fast you'd have says in marshall it depends on this khakira looks off cypher if the way we view tish above that comes out on shabbos is that under the circumstances above on sunday so the kid is about mitzvah on sunday he has to fast on sunday but it's the way and that's the the way the rush would say that tish above is sunday the kid has to fast but if you say that really tisha bob comes out on shabbos element you can't fast on shabbos so sunday's the makeup so this poor kid he doesn't have to fast on sunday but he's a bar mitzvah she says why do i have to fast why do i need to make up something that was originally in the sky when i wasn't a bar mitzvah boy if really tisha comes out on shabbos lmi sunday is a makeup then the kid who becomes bar mitzvah on sunday does not have to fast on sunday because it's only a makeup for shabbos so this would be another amazing nafkamina again if under the circumstances then the kid has to fast but if really tishbo is on the ninth element the tenth is a makeup a child who was not in the sm tinus in other words he was not even the icartinas he wasn't a bar mitzvah and tishma he would not have to make it up on sunday so we have two nakaminas one is regarding varam shabbat sinnah on tishab that if a sunday is a makeup then shabbat sinnoh would be nyeig on shabbos and if a kid becomes bar mitzvah on sunday then it right it comes out the opposite now when it comes to dvaram shabbat sinha if they were kaiveya tishb on sunday the varma shabbat sinnoh would be and it read and it comes out another kula that if they're kovaya tish above on sunday that a kid who becomes bar mitzvah on sunday that excuse me then it would come out of homura would have to would have to fast okay we're gonna talk about that so so far we have we have it's too conflicting you know it depends how you look at it if tish above is sunday there's certain kulas the varmi shabbat sinnoh would be mooteras on chabas but if tishaba this sunday then a kid would have to fast let me ask you the following question we know in the hierarchy of the three weeks you have the three weeks you have the nine days you have than even the nine days so for instance what's an example where it's muhammad let's say somebody has a leniency that a situation where they would be allowed to shave during the three weeks let's say for paranasana right ramosa says there there was there they were never naughty not to shave during the three weeks somebody doesn't need to so then they follow the minute let's say a person legitimately has to shave for parnassa but so you're right it is or maybe it isn't what does it depend on it depends on this kakira if really tishva is shabbos element you can't fasten you have to push it off then this is if under the circumstances there are only at ishmael on sunday there is no schwa is it on sunday or is it on sunday or is it really shabbos and then pushed off well so let's see how we pass again writes in our simmon tough cuff after the tightness you're allowed to take a haircut and do laundry immediately shine if tishaw comes out on sunday or beshabas or if it comes out on shabbos and it gets pushed off to sunday here if tishma comes out on sunday or if it comes out on challenge it gets pushed up to sunday motorbiste you could take a haircut and do laundry both weeks the week before and the week after being shaking now listen carefully if tisha b'av comes out on sunday of course we know why the macabre would say you could take a haircut the week before because it's not sure by tisha but the mahabharata says even when tijuana comes out on shabbos you could take a haircut the week before the h me shalomer and there are those who say shen nagou lesser koshevo shalaphanov that they asked her the week before except for thursday and friday who covered shabbos brings down two opinions the opinion number one is that when tishb comes out on shabbos there is no shiva table the second opinion is when tishb comes out on shabbos there is nothing let me ask you a question who is the mahabharata like well there's a clown when you learn the mahabharat when he brings down two opinions and one opinion is a yeshmiesha he's passing like the other opinion because this opinion is only a yeshmisha the mecca is pascaning that if tishb comes out on shabbos the week before his mother the makhabaskins this year there is no schwa and that's the halacha so let's say somebody needed to shave for panaso they could shave there's no restrictions this year that's how we've asked him you have to know how to read a macabre mahabharata brings down two opinions one opinion is stam one opinion is yeshimi shalimar the mahabharata is pascaning then when tishbov comes out on shabbos the week before his mother so if you want to know is there the answer is ano so now let's come back to the other shilas so it would come out no not on this prod then it would come out as follows that a kid who would become bar mitzvah on yod i would say kids bar mitzvah this sunday he would have to fast because that day is tisha so the question is to why are we mahmeer when it comes to tashma shamita because rabbits like medina said so and in other words it's not mayukar hadin it's not it's not a mamish says a woman who's loud is friday night it's mother what do you mean put a tissue off the answer is not satisfying okay it's the day that tishma was supposed to come out on so where were kedai hubei but if let's say it's so uh you should know my skin tell you another important thing this is what you mentioned before [Music] or mahmeer but for filaments in our makeover on friday night but this everybody says so shabbos is um it's one of the five union okay so so they're also fix it on tisha right yeah okay we know it's interesting me differing the vm learning what about learning on tish above well our minute because we don't learn until the gemara mentions it how about an era of tisha it's not brought down in the gemara not brought down in shas however what drama brings down a minute number nine vinogu lomoid the only those things that are mother on to shabbat well what if arab tishb comes out on shabbos says rama what happens to perceyavoice no perche of ice what about spaziers no spaziers either no turkey avoids and no sponsors not everybody agrees with rama says the mission barra what's the reason you can't learn arab tishbov mean you could eat you could drink you could wear shoes you could wash your hands so why can't you learn says the mission bureau did torah miss america when we because you have alternatives food there are no alternatives to food it's not like you know what instead of eating now i'm going to breathe in air it doesn't work there's no alternative to food but learning you can learn comps about counsel you can learn echo you can learn jeremiah right it comes to my casa i know you learned already but most people even though every year you can learn year me and nobody ever learned it right so you can learn near me by the way the sam um has a very interesting reason why there's a minute not to learn arab tish above um after hot sauce there are the mission rules says the reason is because there are alternatives the sam soy foreign writes on the sixth line he says we don't really have a clear reason for the minogue because normally what you learn during the day is still still sifting through your mind in the night time the reason you don't learn arab tisha is because we're afraid you're still going to be thinking of it at night and you're going to be entering that veil okay by the way the mission abroad brings down that many people do not like this rama the mission brings down many aquanum say um first mission brewer brings in asalas many akwa numa that this is the correct minute and they don't protest and they say that even if tish above comes out that even if arab tish above comes out on chavez still we don't learn after khatsays however says the mushroom on the fourth line on the second on the second page there are many ah names that question this minhag who's who questions it first of all the marshall the marshall writes that you know how much he doesn't like the minogue that he himself would learn after khatsu is an era of tishma okay and not only that he allowed others to learn after khashoggis the guerra the gross says that say yasera it's an excessive comrade the mayama murakai speaks at length about it we're going to see what he writes in in a moment says this is one of these manhagem that brings to bitter torah because he says many loyamdim are misrational in the lima atari of tishbob why says that the mordecai what are you going to tell a guy okay now on from 12 o'clock on you could only learn kamsa by kamsa so the guy says how many years in a row are you going to tell me to learn comes about comes let me learn what i want to learn you can't legislate to somebody it's okay you're um you're now to learn but there's so many things you could learn i don't want to learn those things i want to learn what i want to learn it says the um and the remarkable is mako and he himself was making them says we're not going to protest now what does that sound like to you sound like to me is if you're able to hack it you're able to control yourself it's best not to learn arab tishman after hot sauce if you can't control yourself in other words if you feel it's going to really affect your learning so then no problem there's the xiaomi list but then the mission work continues if arab tishbo comes out on shabbos you don't say perce says the mishna bura but when it comes down on shabbos we have an added kula and that is the ta's says on shabbos nothing see you're going to tell a guy not to learn after khasis he says no says the ties if you learn on shabbos after khatsu you don't lose your scar even if this above comes out shabbos certainly if it comes out sunday says a mission bureau like this during a week day i already told you if you want to be mako from katsu in lim and on shabbos says naboora you you're allowed to learn okay but if the ramo would walk in the room what would there i must say about learning on tish about no the minogue is not to learn after khasis comes up has the following khakira is not learning available in general in other words if somebody's not going to learn is that available nobody knows they're not learning the guy comes home he eats he's sitting at the table who knows exactly what he's reading you know the difference nowadays between tyra's farm and and and varun battalion it's hard to know the difference right they the all the books look the same so he's not learning drama but synonym should we be making or not to learn the whole day as well we know arab tishbo of the miners only not to learn after katsu but it's not era of tisha this year it's tish above says i'm sorry if he quotes and that khakira is since it's above and not learning his only dram shabbat sinner should we ask her learning the whole day on shabbos rabbi what do you think it depends on it depends on this kakira that we're speaking about if really tish above that pulls out on shabbos tish above is shabbos but what it's pushed off to sunday well then says look some sofa then it would come out you shouldn't be allowed to learn the whole day on chavez but if under the circumstances tish above was established on sunday then shabbos is not tish above then you could definitely learn in the morning and after khatsas it depends if you follow the rama or not now rabbi sai who do we passing like do we pass again this year tish above his shot is pushed off or is we passing it was established on sunday in the first instance how do we pass again so he said the shogunate says this year there is no schwa this sunday says you got it right since the shocking arc passkins that tish above is sunday then you're allowed to learn on shabbos and after kha'zois depends if you follow the ramo or not okay so you could definitely learn shop this morning and after khashoggis is mako okay somebody said so far we mentioned foreign afghanis number one of whether it's lumen or established in the first instance on sunday is dwarveship nafcamino number two is for a kid who is bar mitzvah on sunday now if camino number three is is there a shakaaba and afghamino number four is whether you're allowed to learn on this shabbos i'll tell you another nascamina let's say somebody had a baby boy yesterday they're going to be making a brisamilla on sunday my brother-in-law a few years ago he made a brisamilla on on sunday on tishaba do they have to fast does the bow brush have to fast now somebody who makes a bris on a regular tightness he does fast but what about on anitra so what would you say does the bow brush have to fast it depends if this year tish above this sunday then he would have to fast if his shabb is pushed off he doesn't have to and lo and behold here is where it takes a turn even though we passed in this year tish above is sunday a baal bris does not fast on a babris will uh after minha um he's mastala minha and he's not mash them his tinus why but the tightness was kaiveya on sunday i thought it's a nirkha excuse me i thought under the strings as it was established in the first instance on sunday the answer is let's just clarify one point even though we have a khakira is tishab shabbas and it just pushed off to sunday or under the circumstances it was established in the first instance on sunday either way it's not as strong as if tish above is falling out on the day that it it's supposed to even if under the circumstances that's established on a sunday it still has a dinner of a nirkha and bottom line is about looking number fourteen tishma of chicago do you have to wait until you have to first in the morning we can wait till the afternoon no the afternoon definitely afternoon well after manchester but i think they make the bris they make the bursa on the eighth day and then the soo does that night this is the night one morning after now on a regular tainus on one of the dalai tanis some other than tishbo mubaras who's or maybe not even mubarak usually does not fast on the dalai tanism except for tishawa mubarak would fast on to shabbat what about this year tisha buff what about antishiba nira who would ordinarily fast on tisha buff this year would not fast on tisha ahoy leaked this year normally she does fast on tijuana would not fast on tisha why not basically we make a cava climber you ready for this on a normal fast day fasts right someone is making a bristown let's say shivatama's wood fast but umu baras would not fast on shibasa patamos so then on tisha where babner bow brush does not fast all the more so mubaras we're not fast now here's a good hakira when could the mubaraks break her fast do we say well she's learning it out from the bow bris and the bob risk could only break her fast after minha or do we say no mubarak doesn't uh doesn't fast at all on a regular fast so she also would not fast at all it's even more lenient uh was even more lenient the way the way uh my missouri is that she doesn't have to fast at all even in the morning she doesn't fast at all but what does it depend on it really should depend on this kakira that if really tisha bashava isn't just pushed off we could be lenient with mubarak's as opposed to if it was established in the first instance on sunday should be but we're not we're not bottom line is there are certain things where mahmoud there's certain things we're making on what are we mahm what are we making on this sunday about mubaraks but in general the halacha the icker is that when tishb comes out on shabbos shabbos is not tisha buff tish above is sunday and that is why there's no shiva by tishbov that is why a kid who becomes our miss on sunday would have to fast and that is why so right we we mentioned five nafkamina's dvaram shabbat sinha we are makmaran bar mitzvah boy we say he does fast swoosh we are lenient on learning on arab tish above we are lenient on this sweet year and we say in the morning it doesn't have the status of tisha b'av it's arab tishov you could definitely learn talk after katsoya if you follow the rama your mahmeer the mission bureau says that if it comes out on shabbos the lash on the mission bureau is yes you could rely on this and regarding mubarak and about bris we are mako and we're misfollowed soy ma ravi siri the sausage hashem we hope to go like ravi that shahood you've just experienced another torah class brought to you by torahanytime.com