What Does “Middle Class” Really Mean Anymore? | The Young Middle Class

Do you feel comfortable saying your income or >> um yeah, I think so. >> I made a comment on one of the podcasts that 250 to $300,000 of household income >> is where middle class the you know middle class all the way up to maybe even $450 to $500,000 depending on family size of course. >> It's crazy these days. >> That's middle class. And I I was reading once someone sent me a text that I believe the high middle class in the non-Jewish world is like 200,000 like something like that. So what is your household income? [music] Welcome Shalom Becker. >> How are you >> vice president? I'm great. I hope you're doing well. >> Thank you. >> So Shalom Becker is the vice president of purchasing. >> Yes. at Millennial, what was it? Millennial >> Millennial Healthcare. >> Millennial Healthcare. Of course, this is one of the reasons we brought Shalom on the podcast is because he's in healthcare, very popular Jewish business, second to being a speech therapist. Um, healthc care business. And a lot of this podcast has to do with the feedback that I received from the audience on our podcast with Arianju who's also just a quote regular middle class person uh who's doing well putting away money financially secure not living the dream necessarily but al just planned properly and the audience wanted to hear from someone in let's say I don't want to call it a younger age bracket but someone more in let's call it the beginning to mid-level stage. And I've known Sham now for about uh almost I think almost 10 years at this point. >> Like 10 years. One of my first clients when I started the business. I appreciate that by the way. >> Thank you for trusting me back then. Uh don't forget these things. Um, and I admire Shalom because uh, he at this point is also financially secure. And what that means is not necessarily a lot of debt, thank God, supports the family, um, has a family. And I'd love my audience to hear how he's done that and how you do it. And that's really what the regular middle class people want to hear. So, let's begin with that. Sean, maybe you want to tell us a little bit more about yourself and uh we'll take it from there. >> Sure. Uh first of all, thank you for calling me young. I appreciate that. >> Well, you're my age, so I'm young. >> Oh, okay. [laughter] That's a little bit about myself. Um so, my name is Shelon Becker. I'm originally from Brooklyn, New York, Flatbush. Grew up my whole life there. Uh got married about 11 years ago now and been living in Farco ever since. I'm uh married to Aigle >> Shapiro and uh we have four kids. Canara >> four kids. >> Yeah. >> And we're living uh like I said, we're living in Farway. Bought a house about four years ago, I think, now. >> And Raashem, you know, we're uh that's >> that's the that's the gist of it. Pretty regular, right? >> Yeah. >> Nothing. Uh no great shakes, but again, that's what people want to see see and hear about. So, um, let's talk about your journey through your profession. So, um, where did you start? Um, cuz I know now you're vice president. I don't think that's I mean, could be someone like you started in >> started right there. Right. [laughter] >> Right. You know, started right at the top. But knowing you for a while, I know you started really from I don't want to call it the bottom, but you've built up. >> Yeah. >> So, tell us where your prof your profession started. Um so my profession started well first I I was in cola for a little bit for about 3 [snorts] 4 months and then uh uh we were looking at our finances and we're like okay you know what this is we need to do something else right now. So actually started very simply I was working for a special I was working a special ed class for about a year year and a half uh while still learning first sader so that was a it was a good start I was able to do >> where were you living then? I was living in Frogway still. Yeah. >> You were living in Frogway. So, just to cut you off quickly. Did you go to Israel after you got married or? >> No, I never did that. Always always wanted to, but it didn't it wasn't in the books for us. >> Okay. >> Yeah. But, uh, Fair enough. >> Yeah. Right away. Right away. Uh, lived in Paracway, rented a had a little uh one-bedroom apartment. It was uh >> it was it was it was fun times. >> Mhm. >> Um, and yeah, so I was saying that I worked there for about a year and a half in uh and it was good because I was able to still learn first. It was good and I worked in the second part of the day but at I think about after two years of marriage I wanted to just get into the regular working world. I wasn't making much money then was very little and I started actually was working right here in this building. >> Oh this yeah Cedar Center. >> Cedar Center. Yeah. >> A lot of people have passed through the doors of this building for good and for bad. >> I know walking up the steps here brought back a lot of memories. It was about uh 10 years ago. Um, I worked for a company called Sharp Fitz for about a year. >> Ah, >> and >> interesting. >> Yeah, they uh they're it got me into the world of purchasing. They uh I think they call a sourcing company >> where they where they help uh all sorts of companies find different products. I worked there for about for about a year >> and then um I worked I got into the healthcare field. I became a director of purchasing for a healthcare company. I've moved through several >> which company which company was at? The first of it was Champion Healthcare. >> Champion Healthcare. And where was that located? >> That was in Rockville Center. They had uh nursing homes also throughout the Midwest. >> Uh-huh. So, what is I'm going to also, as you go through your story, just ask you uh questions. >> Sure, please. >> So, um what does it mean to be a purchase uh vice president or what does it mean to be in purchasing? Pardon my ignorance, but for other people to know. >> Yeah. Everyone wants to know. Everyone ask me, like, "Oh, so you just buy uh band-aids and diapers all day, right? [clears throat] What's purchasing? >> Yes. So, um, anything that really comes in, you know, in in, uh, usually you're managing multiple buildings, um, for a healthcare portfolio and you're any any contract, any vendor, any product that's coming in the building, you're really controlling and negotiating that. So, anything really that comes in the building and and you're you build a central purchasing system where you know you go through approval process, you're going through budgets, you're creating budgets, you're making sure you're negotiating with the vendors to get the the best prices on anything from the smallest little bandaids to the biggest services in the building, uh, >> you know, A through Z. So, it's very very all-encompassing and it's, uh, you know, very rewarding, too. But it's uh >> very you know there's a lot to do and I think every company looks at it a little bit different. Every company you know focuses on different aspects of it and I think every purchaser focuses on different aspects. So it's really uh >> it's unique for every company I think. >> So vice president of purchasing or purchasing means you control the supplies that come in correct or approve purchases. Wow. So you have a large responsibility I guess in in your profession you're reporting a lot with the CFO or like who who's your manager like? >> Yeah, right now it's the and now I was just saying so I went through several different companies over the over the you know my nine 10 years in the in the field >> and I mean to the company right now I am reporting to the CEO CEO >> but I'm definitely in in constant communication with the with the clinical team with all our consultants uh with the facilities. So really really everyone in corporate but uh my main person I'm definitely communicating with the CEO. >> Mhm. Okay. So talk us talk us or talk me through how you've your progression. So you started out in special you were learning part-time let's say and [clears throat] then special ed. >> Yeah. >> So >> that came from you went to school. >> No it was actually just an it was just a it was just a >> like a gig. >> Yeah. It was just a gig. It was it was something that I could learn a little bit cuz I I still wanted to get that, you know, a little bit of cola life in. >> So, yeah, I was able to learn that first sader and that was such a lifetime ago. I barely remember it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um and I was still able to get that first sader learning and I worked in the second half day. So, this I I was able it was very minimal money, but I was able to bring home a little bit at that point. And uh it worked. It worked for it worked for a little while. >> Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm telling you, I'm focusing on these things cuz I want our audience to see how you've built up cuz that's really how the middle class evolves, >> right? >> To get to your point. >> So, um, so how did you get by those years? Were you frugal? And you can, you know, whatever you're comfortable answering, you know, for >> sure. >> Um, how did you get by financially in those years when you were bringing in just mainly a side gig, let's call it income wise. What what again did you go into debt or did you borrow wisely? Like what got you through those the beginning beginning years? >> So we never really had much help. Um honestly I mean a little bit here, a little bit there in the first year of our marriage. Um but we I I think it just it was a little bit easier back then because our expenses were a lot less. I think we only had one child. uh we're at a you know we you know we decided to go to a very small basement type of apartment which uh helped us keep down >> cost. I mean we were we were you know we had to live frugally. We had to do what we needed to do. We didn't drive we didn't lease a car. We I think we had one car at that point. >> Um >> What do you mean you didn't lease a car? >> We didn't I mean you know we didn't lease any vehicles. I mean later on in life we did. >> So how'd you get a car? What was that? >> We had my wife came in we came I came into marriage with a car. You had a car? >> Actually no she did. I'm sorry. She had a car. >> That was our car. It was an old car. We we drove that for a while and that's [clears throat] what we did. >> Uhhuh. So So and again, so a lot of the decisions you made at that point like where to live and whether you should lease or not >> were were because of the fin being conscious financially. Is that correct? >> So it's funny cuz back then I I never really, you know, grew up in and in an environment where we thought about finances where where I I you know, where we're budgeting and stuff like that. We didn't I didn't really know that world but I I knew the reality that you know we didn't have a lot >> and >> and you know we had to we you know we we I lived in reality I think and of course you know we wanted to I always wanted to spend I always wanted to do this my wife happens to be she was very very budget conscious in the beginning of our marriage for sure definitely more than myself. >> Mhm. [clears throat] Um but I think it was like a learning a learning pro uh you know we a learning progressive progression and yeah I'm just I got excited for a second because I had a very cool how did you withstand the did you have pressure to live differently than how you lived because I know people feel a lot of peer pressure life is expensive of course but there's a lot of spending in the community how did you did you feel pressure and if yes how did you withstand that >> no so we definitely felt pressure um especially as we're gaining our independence and you know we have our apartment we we're working our own not you know we're not under our parents roof anymore again this was a long time ago but we definitely felt that pressure you know and we're still young looking you know looking at other people and say like oh these people are in a nicer apartment maybe we should >> maybe we should uh leave and go to a much bigger apartment and pay uh I think it was like probably double the price maybe we should lease a fancy car I mean fancy car for us would have been you know a Honda Accord [laughter] >> Camry exactly Um but definitely we definitely had that pressure and we may have succumbed to it a little bit but I don't think I I think we we did have to you know we did live very >> So would you say your wife was a big uh assistance in making sure you withtood financial pressure? >> Definitely. Definitely. She still is. [laughter] >> She still is. >> You have to be very disciplined. Um, and that's something I've always respected. >> And you see that it can be done. Everyone in the audience should know that um, even regular people, so to speak, um, can be financially conscious and frugal and and do things responsibly. So, um, okay. So, you're living in a um small apartment. What how many bedrooms? Uh when I first got married it was one bedroom and then one just living area [laughter] like a basement. >> It was just Yeah. >> basic basic living >> and um Oh, was your wife working as well or? >> Yeah. So, she happened to be she had a full she worked the full-time job in the in the beginning, but it didn't work out and that's s sort of when I knew I had to like start uh start working part-time at least. >> Mhm. >> And that's uh >> Yeah. >> So, let me get into the weeds a little bit about that. So when you were living um in that situation, did you have cleaning help and babysitting or were those things that you had to so let's say struggle or >> sort of work hard to Would you consider that was that considered a luxury for you? >> That was definitely considered a luxury for us. I mean I grew up always with a clean I think once or twice a week in in my family. My wife never had that honestly >> and we we didn't have one for the first uh good few years of our marriage >> really. Yeah. So, no cleaning help, but I'm assuming um when I guess when you started working, your wife wasn't working as much. Was that >> Yeah, she she was working more part-time um when I started working. >> Mhm. >> Um especially as we had more children, >> right? >> And especially when I started working uh more full-time, for sure. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> Uhhuh. So, that's also a very important thing. People >> cleaning help could be expensive. Very expensive. I think for my budgets that I see, it's between $700 to $1,000 a week. How much? >> Yeah. I don't know if that's how much you pay, but that's uh you know, it depends on the person. Yeah. >> Um Okay. So, that's very I think every detail you mentioned there is important for the audience to hear >> how you lived responsibly, frugally, >> and you went to work when you needed to, right? >> Which is not an easy thing for a lot of people to >> Definitely wasn't easy. >> It was the transition, I'm assuming. Right. You had to transition. What was hard about that transition? also just not knowing, you know, we're we're I think you come from this yeshiva bucker lifestyle. I mean, I was still so young. I was 24 years old >> and never really had to think about working. I mean, I worked in the summers. I did a little bit here and there, but I I wasn't in an environment where I had so much pressure to feel like I needed to make money. And now suddenly, here's this, you know, pressure like, wow, I have this responsibility. I have a wife. I have >> a child. I and children. and and you know that that that sort of pressure is was was very new and >> we sort of had to figure out how to how to go about that and deal with that. >> Mhm. Okay. So you started a side job now you're moving into p what was the name of the first company? >> First company I worked for was Champion >> Champion Healthcare. >> And can I ask what was the starting salary there? Like what were you what were you looking at? >> Oh wow. This was probably in 2015, I think. >> Okay. >> It was my It was a brand new company. Um they they I think I got paid 50,000. >> 50,000? >> Yeah. 5050? [laughter] Yeah. Yep. >> Wow. That's uh >> And it's funny cuz when at that point I thought I was like, "Wow, >> you're making 50 grand." >> Yeah. I was like, "Okay, now uh >> $50,000." Yeah. A lot has changed in 10 years. >> That's >> So $50,000 and that was enough to get by at that point in time. That was uh >> um yeah, I think so. I mean, it it was my wife was definitely she was working more she wasn't working part-time. She was working >> What does your wife do? >> So, she was at that point in time. >> At that point in time, she she she worked uh she worked for a furniture company. >> She was uh she she works in marketing, graphic design. >> Mhm. >> Um >> Mhm. Yeah. So, she did that for a company. She actually recently just changed jobs. [clears throat] >> Mhm. So, at that time when you were making $50,000, what what was your household income between you and your wife? Um, and what was your expenses if you can just give a round number like if you can think back? >> Think back to that. [laughter] >> Um, >> were you saving? Were you saving money at that point in time? >> Barely anything. Yeah, I would say we weren't weren't saving much, especially probably I think we had a we had two kids at that point. >> Um, not saving much. And it and it's funny because with every raise I got or with every new position or or anytime, it's like something I think like, oh wow, now I could be able to to to buy more things or save more. And then it's like every time I was like, "Wow." Oh, actually it's not really that exactly. >> Mhm. So you weren't saving much. >> I don't think so. No. >> Yeah. Um, [clears throat] now I think we spoke for the first time going back it was probably around 2015 2016. I think the first thing um when we spoke because I know you weren't saving at that point but in financial planning we spoke. I think the first thing you got were was insurance from was life insurance, right? Is that correct? >> Definitely. Yes. >> Yeah. So, what what spurred that decision? I want people to hear this also uh when they begin financial planning, what the thought process is why we start with insurance. What was your just it could be very straightforward. What was your reason for that? >> First off, you're a good salesman. Definitely. >> I was. [laughter] Oh, there we go. I hope I still am. >> Exactly. So, I give you that, you know, in a good way. >> Say that to say that first. And um >> thank you. >> And it's funny because I never really thought about life insurance at that point. I don't know if it was so as much talked [clears throat] about it as as it as it was now. And it it just came, you know, it was just it just came to realize like, okay, yeah, this definitely makes sense. I mean, like I >> you can't, God forbid, have >> have the if if anything, God forbid, happens, we we can never be in a situation where, you know, we don't have anything where if if there's an accident or anything like that, like we have to be prepared. We have to we have to do our histadas. We have to we have to do what we need to do. And and that was just very important for me, especially as I'm sort of building my mindset of of responsibility. >> Mhm. Responsibility. >> Correct. >> Right. And and again, a lot of people can't find the let's say budget if they do it. They list their expenses. They can't find room for such an insurance policy. How did you do it if you were living, you know, let's say paycheck to paycheck? How are you able to find the ability to buy insurance? And again, it could be a very simple answer, but to get life insurance is a big thing that we need to push and everyone should have. Um, and here we're hearing it from someone who >> um had a lot of expenses but was still able to make it happen. How did you make it happen? >> I mean, definitely expenses were growing at that time, you know, like like I think with any family, I think it just came to realize like that after it was presented and we understood how important it is, we had to make room for it. We had we had to we had to do it. something that >> I didn't you know we didn't have a choice and >> I definitely spoke to a lot of people about it and I'm a very pro that like definitely you know always ask advice to to to friends rebum people that you know to in regards to any anything in life so I >> we just we needed to do it and we and we made it work >> yeah I think that's a big lesson for budgeting my approach I've said this a lot is that uh if we're going to go and like look at every single dollar and then see what's left over for for a financial plan, financial security. Um, if that's what we're going to do, then you're going to have nothing left over, >> right? >> But if you go the other direction where you put money in your financial plan and financial security and then let everything else fall into place, that'll that turn that works a lot, right? Um, >> and you know, people will naturally cut back on those things they could cut back on. So I when I again do budgeting with people, it could be we did a budget together maybe. >> Yeah. >> Um I don't tell people don't spend on this, don't spend on that. We might do an overview of the budget, but I'm not here to tell people what to spend money on and what not to. I'm here what they to tell them what they need to do to be financially secure and then let other things >> like everyone is unique. everyone has a unique situation and everyone I mean like even from you know the podcast you have and different people I hear is like everyone something is important to them and it they can't give in on that or it's something that's >> right >> so it's yeah for sure >> right I mean that's the big thing like theoretically anyone could you know sleep on the park bench and then then eat bread and water you know like obviously so I call it lifestyle when I do budgeting I try to protect people's lifestyle as much as possible we don't want to change or do anything that's going to change how you live dayto-day because that's the hardest thing to do and if we could avoid it we can as long as you check your boxes you know you make sure your financial plan is is secure so that's just an important lesson on budgeting just to throw it out there okay so we're um at the starting position right >> what were you doing again at um at uh Champion you were purchasing >> I was the director of purchasing but it was a very new role for me I didn't have much experience in healthcare at all and it was very uh very new for me very new starting. Okay. Now you moved on from there. What was the reason that you needed to move on and where did you move on to? >> Um I think it was just I was growing. I think their needs were a little you know they wanted maybe someone with a little more experience. So I just it was just time to move on. >> Time to move on. >> Yeah. Time to move on. And it's funny I moved on a decent amount of jobs over the years. And it's not because I I'm guy jumping from job to job. It just kind of just >> happened naturally just happened. Yeah. [snorts] Yeah. >> Just happened through osmosis. We parted ways. >> Um but was it a financial decision also like you needed to make more money or >> I definitely need to make more money. Definitely wanted to at that point. Um and as as expenses were growing. Yes, for sure. >> Okay. Yeah. >> So you moved on from Champion to >> I worked at a company called Topaz >> Topaz Financial or something physical service. It's also a healthcare company. >> Also in the healthcare. Was there anything specific about the healthc care field that attracted you to it or it was just uh >> No, actually not not really. I always I I do like purchasing. I'm always very clever with that. I was always very uh interested in finding the best deals, knowing where to go, negotiating. So that I always had that that uh >> that knack. >> A knack. Exactly. [clears throat] And it sort of sort of navigated me into this field. and healthcare was just I think I just you know I think in our Jewish circles were just very connected >> in that in that circle. So it kind of just led me that way. I think every like pretty much all my I remember all my friends at that time were all yes getting into that field and I just just made sense and then once you're on that trajectory that's you know for every job that I rece that I uh that I went to sort of just went through that trajectory. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So okay so you're moving on to uh so again you moved from Champion to Topaz and what you did purchasing there what was the pay at that point in time um >> Mhm. >> if you can remember ballpark >> I think I started at 70 or 75 >> 70 to 75 >> something like that. >> And how many kids did you have at that point? >> I think I had two I believe I I shortly after that I probably had my third. >> Okay. So like two three kids. two, three kids, $70,000. Um, still living in the same same apartment or you had moved at that point? >> No, so we had moved. So, we had moved at that point. We actually stayed in our first apartment for just a year until my uh till until we had our first child, right? >> And then it's like it wasn't really possible with one room, >> right? >> So, we moved to another apartment >> and >> in far away. >> Correct. In farway. >> And what was the what was the rent if you >> my first apartment? >> The second one. the the one you moved to >> um >> when you working for Topek at that time. >> 1400. >> Yeah, 1400. >> Right. That's Yeah. Today you can't find anything for less than $2,000 even a starting apartment. >> So [snorts] $1,400 apartment. And was your wife working then as well? >> Yeah, she was working. >> Mhm. >> So, okay. So, you had a big pretty decent jump in income. Let's say $20,000 a year. It's, you know, a decent jump. >> Did you start saving at that point? We were saving a little bit. I I I would say a little bit. I mean, I think every month would have been different, especially as expenses were growing and uh, you know, we started have to pay tuition and and and uh more child care and and stuff like that. So, we definitely had to uh >> I I don't remember exactly how much we're saving on all, but I would say at the end of the at the end of the year, we would definitely, you know, save a little bit. >> Save a little bit. Now, again, the saving mindset was what what spurred you to save? What what were you saving for? Or you were just like, "We have extra money, let's put it away." What What was the Was there a specific goal in mind when you started saving or was it just >> extra money? >> Um, we definitely want to save for a home. I mean, that was always our our vision uh to save for a house. Um, it never seemed feasible for me, honestly. >> So, it was just interesting, but we were always just like, "Okay, well, let's just put away whatever we can." Cuz that was that was our our next goal. I mean, obviously for our children, too. and and uh and putting away for for the future as much as we can. But I think that was our like sort of main goal. >> Mhm. [clears throat] >> I got it. For the house, that's a lot of people's main focus. I I I >> I understand that when people need a house, um that's becomes the like there's [snorts] no financial planning that can be done other than the house when that's on the mind. >> Do I necessarily agree with that? I think people have to segregate and do other planning even while they're saving for a house. But >> right, >> I do understand that people's minds can't f like h handle, >> you know, planning for retirement. >> Exactly. Especially when that's >> when that's looming over the forod. >> That's your focus. >> Gabe Tannenberg. Gabe Tannenberg, shout out to you uh for making a house purchasing so attractive. >> Um but that's yeah, that's a definitely formidable a formidable goal, >> right? Um, okay. So, now you're again, so you're working in in Topas financial income jump, saving a little money. >> Um, having more children, thank God. Um, how long did you stay by Topaz and what was your next move? >> Um, I think I stayed there about two and a half to three years. Um, then I moved to a different >> healthcare company. >> Mhm. >> Also, um, worked there for about a year. >> Mhm. And >> what was the again the reason for the move? And >> it was just a uh it was definitely I was definitely feeling a lot more pressure to to make more money both okay >> both from just wanting to make more money cuz feeling feeling that that pressure to make more money but also we needed it you know we had more uh expenses were were rising everything like grocery bills are rising and it's >> and it just became a point was like we're wow it's just it it's crazy. >> Wow. You you're feeling the pinch. >> Definitely definitely >> feeling the pinch and time to get uh a higher salary. Okay. So, you moved from Topaz. Do you remember the company that you moved to? >> Yeah. >> What was that? >> It was Hill Valley. >> Hill Valley. >> Yeah. >> Hill Valley Healthcare. >> Yes. Okay. So, now what was the numbers then? What were your what was your salary? >> Um so, I had had a few raises beforehand. So, I wasn't I wasn't at 70 at that point. I was definitely a little bit high. I don't remember exactly where I I was at, but I definitely had a few raises. Um, so I think the salary I had at that point was 100 when I made the move. I think it was around 120 >> 120,000. >> Yeah, something like that. >> Now, [snorts] let me ask you a question because I know this is very hard for people that I work with, believe it or not, asking for a raise. Did they offer that to you or you had to ask for it? >> Definitely. Um, I think every place was a little bit different, but no one really offered it. It was more like a year. I think most places look at it as like a year end type of review >> and then you would uh you know have to use your negotiation skills to to talk about it was definitely never >> just like offered. They didn't just say hey here's a raise. [laughter] >> It wasn't offered. >> I find clients a lot of clients are underpaid [snorts] and it's because there's a very difficult they have a lot of difficulty asking for a raise. >> So what was your average raise when you asked for one? Um I I would say between 8 to 12,000. >> 8 to 12,000. >> Yeah. >> I would say average. I mean some some some place over and it's definitely funny because definitely when you know and I'm not I'm not saying this is always the move to do because it's you know definitely it's definitely hard to change jobs but it's I find it's like easier to when you get a new job to make that big jump as opposed to in a current job to >> to [clears throat] to you know to get more. >> So how did you ask for the raise? you went in and said, "Could you [snorts] take me through that a little bit cuz I want all my clients and audience to hear this." >> Um, I think it's important information. Go ahead. Yeah. >> First off, I would be very uncomfortable for the [laughter] for a few days thinking how I should ask, what I should do. I mean, it was pretty much I pretty much I think every place I was at was it was sort of like a year-end review or a semi or a you know, >> every twice a year type of review or something like that. and we sort of just sat down, went through my job performance, went through >> um you know, what I'm doing, uh what I could be doing more, what projects I've done, how I've saved the company money um in the position that I'm doing, >> and we would just go through those details. And then, uh at that point, uh at the end of the conversation, we have to go through that uncomfortable position of uh asking uh asking for more money. You'd say, "Here's what." So, you negotiated. You thought about it. You had a You came in with a plan and a proposal. And then, how did you ask? Sorry to get so graphic, but how did you get ask for the raise? You said like, "Maybe I could get a raise." >> Yeah. >> Something like that. [laughter] >> It's funny cuz I think with every with every company was a little bit different, but I just remember I mean I feel like every CEO rightfully so is like, you know, it's it's it's it's sort of a game. I want to I don't want to call it a game, but I think it is. It's sort of it's like, you know, they're trying to see, you know, what >> how little they can. And not little, but, you know, what we're on the low end they can go and I'm trying to, you know, oversell as much as I can and sort of we meet in the middle and you would have to it's very uncomfortable. I mean, I remember just like I was telling my wife like some but but I'm very prone. I think you just have to ask. I think it's it's don't be scared to ask because >> you have to do [clears throat] it >> because I think as a I think sometimes we think as a employee or or any any position really that you think like oh wow they they uh I'm just an employee they don't you know they're this they're the CEO they're the owner they're whatever like sometimes you just got to ask like you're important you do a lot you you know you go through you know be very structured in in what responsibilities you do what project you've done during the year how you've done your job well and what how uh you know how you've been an asset to the company and I think you just got to be a little uncomfortable you know >> and just go for it >> just go for it and definitely >> just go for it really >> that's what I've definitely learned over the years >> just go for it I everyone has to hear that because that's the hardest part is you just got to >> you plan you do the best you can and then you just go for it and maybe it'll be very uncomfortable >> y >> it definitely is going to be uncomfortable a little bit but you know you may get uh there's always feedback that that that you have to go through and stuff like that which is I That's normal and >> right >> and you just got to do it. >> Right. Right. And and I I find people should know that when you know I think a big incentive is your financial plan required it. You needed to make more cash flow. And sometimes people after they sit down with me and they see the writing on the wall like you know you got to make more money. That's also an incentive to make uh the decision and go ask for a raise. So again, if [snorts] you're feeling underpaid and you're valuable to your company, you learn how to ask for a raise. You just got to go do it. Really, I think that's uh maybe we got sidetracked a little bit, but that's important. Definitely. I think it's an important piece of information. >> Okay. So, you're now you're you're in the next stage. >> Just another point. I think it's also >> Yeah, >> it's it's important, like I said, it's important just to ask and don't be afraid of like don't be afraid of getting a bad result. like I don't think like okay even >> like getting fired or something >> or or even not just you're just feeling like uh like they're not going to give you anything or or you're not going to have or or they're just gonna laugh in your face. Like don't be afraid of that. >> Just just do it. Just go for it and >> ask for what you think is is fair and and talk it through and it go through the points and that's it. Yeah. >> Negotiate. Meet in the middle. Do it smart. >> Uhhuh. >> Okay. All right. So, so you're in the next position making about 120,000. Um, at that point were you thinking about a house or I mean you were maybe putting away some money, but >> So, actually at that point I was just in the midst of buying my house. >> Okay. So, what year what year are we talking about now? >> 20 is it right like right in middle of co like towards the end. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, that was 2020. >> 2020. We're at 2020 now. >> Yeah. We jumped ahead a little, right? >> Uh-huh. So, here you are. You're in Let's talk about this. So, you're in the uh journey, we spoke with Gabe, of buying a house. Um, >> and how much money did you have saved for it? >> Um, so I remember we still had like our our we we kept a hold of our cost of money like that. We uh >> Wow. Didn't spend it >> a little bit here, a little bit there. We added to it like when we tried to save. So, I probably >> had maybe 40,000 >> $40,000. >> Yeah. 40 50,000 saved at that point. And in 2020, okay, 40 [snorts] 50,000 2020, what were the houses going for in in Far Fro I I found in Rockway? I don't know how it was just really just fell into my lap. I I had a friend that uh >> that was something else. And I I think it's also important when when you are looking for a house. I mean, especially when you're on a budget, you you just have to try to be flexible where you can. It's hard and you know, you're looking at your house and you're trying to buy your dream home. you're trying to say, "Oh, it has to have this. It has to have a master bathroom. It has to have a basement. It has to have >> this amount of rooms. It has to be this size. It has to be in this location." And, you know, just in the market that we're in, especially in New York tri-state area, it it's it's hard. It It's very hard, especially when you're on a budget. So, you do have to just as much as you can just I think try to be flexible. I remember always like I had a conversation with someone, I don't remember who, and just saying like, you know, this doesn't have to be your final home. Like you tell yourself that like a lot of a lot of or I had a lot of friends that would just say like oh it has to be perfect. It has to be has to have everything I wanted to has to check all the boxes and then you end up just not >> buying houses and it just you know that could potentially be the right fit for you. So we definitely had to go out of our comfort zone. I mean we the house that we bought is uh actually it's not a bad location but it's a little bit outside of where all the in live in our community. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. So [clears throat] you you had to let's say forgive on certain things >> but that's a very important thing not to be all or nothing to just get the house. >> How important was it was your mortgage broker in this process? >> Definitely very important because I didn't know anything about the process about the journey about how to go about it what's what what to do like there's so much nuances and especially for someone that's just not experienced. And at this point, I was educating myself as much as I can, like speaking to people that went through the process. And >> and that's another thing that I always think I think is like as a person who and that's I think why I'm here like as a person who bought a house, you should always try to be very open with how you did it cuz there's a lot of people that just don't know or do or or think that they can't or don't understand how to do it. So, you know, as a person who went through the process, you know, I'd love to try to give advice as much I can. Again, I don't know how much advice I have. I don't know what like I don't know uh you know how people look up to me or anything like that. I I don't think I have much to say but wherever I could I would love to you know give over as much as I can. >> Okay. Well, you bought a house in Fra. That's like uh [snorts] you got the gold medal. >> Um >> but really not. It's really [laughter] outside of everything. >> It's it's outside. But listen, that's like like you said, you have to make certain things happen, but some people can't, you know, don't even hit that point. >> Yeah. Um, and it was important to have a good mortgage broker. That's very good to hear. But what are the numbers? Uh, so you had 40 50,000 saved. That wasn't 20%. Was that 20%? >> Was not 20%. Again, I did I did make during uh during that time I did I mean again it's I have to say this too. I don't know how much we want to get into that but it's all be shim also. It's it really it really is. I mean at that point when I was really were going through the numbers looking trying to look for houses. I mean, we were looking for a while and everything was just like going up and up in price and everything was just not either not like something that didn't fit our price range or you know, we was didn't work for us or we got out bid and just at this time like a little bit of money came my way. Nothing crazy but just something that really helped with, you know, the down payment. It's just a a deal I made and >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. >> So, okay. So, how much was put down at the at the final Could I ask like how much you put down for your house after all was said and done? Was it 20%? >> So, it wasn't 20%, it was about I would say about 10%. >> 10%. So, you do you pay do you pay PMI? >> Yeah, I pay a little PMI. >> And is that as formidable of a challenge as >> No, it really isn't. I think it comes out to about $90 per month. >> $90 a month. >> Yeah. Which again is an amount and it's it's what you know. >> Yeah, it's something. It's it's not terrible if if someone is at the point where they can't, you know, where they can't uh put down that 20% and you know that and that was something that a good mortgage broker really really helped with like understanding like okay what would be like like what would what's the increase? What what what uh what's your PMI going to look like? What's your what's the full picture going to look like? What what are you going to pay per month? And really really helped us understand like okay what makes sense for us. >> Mhm. So, the mortgage broker helped. Um, okay. So, you put down uh let's say 10%. Um, you got the house. Did you empty out your savings for it or you had a little bit left over? >> So, I had a little bit left over and we kind of wanted to do that. We didn't want to go. That's not the right word, [laughter] >> right? Yeah. >> It's not smart. I tell that to people all the time and I'm sure the mortgage brokers say it like >> you can't empty out your savings and put yourself in that position. >> Put down less. Um, I think Gabe advised us this as well. Put down less and uh, you know, keep something around. So, you know, for >> Yeah, definitely for needs. >> I'm sure you got a good interest rate though cuz it was >> Yeah, that that definitely helped. I I remember it was right before the interest rates like skyrocketed. That's when I like >> May I ask what your interest rate is? >> Yeah, of course. Uh, I think it's uh 3.6. >> 3.6. Okay. Half of what it is now. >> Yeah. I just I just remember it was at a point where it was like a few months before that it was in the twos and it just went up. So I was thinking I was talking with the mortgage broker going back and forth like oh should we wait because it's been fluctuating maybe it'll go down into the twos and and it was overnight it went up into like the high fours and oh my gosh what's going to happen but he locked me in. >> Wow. Look how important it is to have a good mortgage broker >> uh to push you to buy a house and how important it is to just do it really. Um, okay. So, wow, that was a great uh great journey there with your house. You got the house. >> Um, now I understand now let's maybe skip a little bit to go to where you are today. >> Um, now you're working for again Millennial Healthcare, right? >> Healthare, >> vice president of purchasing. >> Um, do you feel comfortable saying your income or >> Um, yeah, I think so. >> Cuz I said like this. I'll say it like this. I made a comment on one of the podcasts that $250 to $300,000 of household income >> is where middle class the you know middle class all the way up to maybe even $450 to $500,000 depending on family size of course >> it's crazy these days >> that's middle class in and I I was reading once someone sent me a text that I believe the high middle class in the non-Jewish world is like 200,000 like something like that. [snorts] So, um, what is your household income? And, uh, yeah, we'll follow up with questions, of course. >> Um, so, yeah, but actually, you know, me and my wife both have have increased over the years, >> right? >> Um, household income, >> it could be a ballpark number. >> Yeah, cuz there are some like, and this is something that I think just happens naturally. There are a little bit of side hustles that I do. >> Oh, yeah. >> On the side now that increases it, so it's hard to to gauge. I would definitely say it's near that that 300 mark to to two high two. No, probably high twos, >> right? >> To uh >> right >> to threes. Yeah. >> Right. Oh, wow. So, okay. So, perfect. Like I said, a perfect middle class a first class middle class citizen. >> But you mentioned something about side hustles and that's what I tell people a lot. how if they do a side hustle, they can really take their plan to the point of where they're just maybe surviving to saving, >> right? >> Give me an example of one of your side hustles. >> So, on the side and um you know, obviously this has to work. Everyone has, you know, I think everyone's bandwidth these days are stretched as possible, you know, where everyone's super super busy. So, I think you really have to look at the, you know, really really look at everything and see how it's going to affect you and how it's going to affect your family and how >> you're you're going to, you know, make this work. But, um, I'm doing a little bit of consulting for for other companies and doing purchasing for them. >> Mhm. >> The same way I do it for my company. I do a little bit on the side. Obviously, it's not, you know, nothing crazy because I still have to focus very much on my >> my main uh on my main on my main job, but it's something I do a little bit on the side and it brings in a little bit. Mhm. Yeah. A little extra money, cash flow. >> And listen, I know now for after working with you for many years. Um you're able to save some money. >> Yeah. >> And you're able to also put away money for retirement even, right? For through um from your company. Um I'm assuming they offer a match, right? >> Yeah. So both my company and my wife's company both offered uh offers a match. Yeah. >> Offer a match. And that's that's important to utilize. A lot of companies offer 401ks um or 403bs or whatever they're called and and you get a match um you get a match for that. So now >> again you're at the point where you're able to save. So you went from I guess all the way from making $50,000 to push pushing yourself into the middle class. Um being able to go on offense. >> Yeah. >> Could I ask you the value of having a financial planner? because I know we've worked together for a while. >> What is that to you? The vi the value of of a planner. >> I think it's very important. I mean, I think everyone's going to look at it differently and and how, you know, how they focus on it. But I think it brings everything to perspective cuz I think we just living right now and and especially just how everything has increased. I mean, I can just look at our grocery bills and our just day-to-day expenses, tuition, everything from A to Z has I think just gone up over the years. It's so you sometimes I feel like you just go through the you know you're just on this road and you're just on this road where everything costs and it's hard to bring everything into perspective and understand like you know where you can cut back or what a budget should be for this and how you should you know how you could write the ship in in just in regards to anything really and it's super important because it's like I said it's just so hard these days it's just very hard >> Mhm. >> to understand. Right. >> Right. So, so having someone like you say steady the ship. >> Yeah. >> Um I mean what got you to meet a planner? Was it a hard decision? Um and what would you tell people? You know, we'll wrap up the podcast um with this. >> Um was it a hard decision? I mean, was it hard to go to a planner? And what how would you advise people regarding having a planner? would you say if they're having some kind of roadblock, what would you say is a way to get over that? >> Um, I mean it definitely especially like I said when I started like when we started like where I was very young and I didn't know too much about finances and had a budget and everything like that. So I when it was present to me ai financial planner it was very foreign to me. But when everything came into light and and you know and I understood like well you know like I could make you know I I I will make more money. I will be able to to save. I I could be in a scenario where where I can live comfortably and and still put away and yeah and still deal with all the the the things that that come into life and all the expenses and and everything that happens. But, you know, it's it was it just made so much sense to just like, wow, okay, here's someone that can just help us go A through Z and understand what what I could do, what I can't do, where I can, you know, where I can cut back on, where what to focus on, how to save, what will be the most the best way to utilize it, like you mentioned with the, you know, properly setting up your uh your your kid, >> correct? Your kids, your your IAS, your any type of fund that that that that uh that you need. And it's just super super important and it just really makes sense. It just it's very like I said so hard to do it on your own. I mean maybe some people can and I I don't know but I just know myself and a lot of people >> that you know I know it's just it's >> you know the the road is hard and and to have someone there to help give you advice is essential. >> And those people that are finding it hard to to take that jump, what would you what would you say is your best advice? I think, like I said, I think I always tell this to everyone. Just speak to just just do it. Just speak to someone. Just speak to someone and right >> talk it over. Understand. I don't think there's a there's a major financial uh expense to it or or anything like that. It's just something just just go about doing it, you know, and if anything, you had a conversation and more likely than not, you'll you'll come out of there learning a lot. >> So, being in the middle class, how does that feel to you? And are there things that you wish are different? um from where this you know the situation you're in right now that you would love to have let's say >> um that's an interesting question um so I mean I would say to wish anything different I think I I don't think that's a good world to live in I think it's like this is your reality this is this is you right now and everyone's going to be different everyone situation is different so to to look at you know there's always peer pressure there's always looking at others and seeing like oh wow you know this person got this car and this person got this house and this person's moving here and you know that that you know there's always a little thing in my mind that always come comes across but I think when I think that's just a distraction and I think you really just have to go through the road and just >> be able to look at what you can do and look at what how you can change and look at what you can do with your finances and and I mean every and like every like I said everyone's case is different and you know there's some people that could work with a work you know make it make it work with a lot less money but some people that you need can't at all so I I think when it comes to that, yeah, there's going to be pressure. There's going to be that's normal and everyone's going to think that. And I'm sure that happens in every single circle from from from the lowest level to the highest level. But I think it's just like try to keep your eyes forward and look and and and look at the road ahead and do whatever, you know, do what makes sense and do do what you need to do to to make things work. [clears throat] >> Wow. So, you see everyone out there in the middle class, the forgotten middle class. Exactly. >> There is hope. Yeah. And I think that's what Shalom was very good at, being disciplined to stay in your lane and finding happiness there. >> I mean, listen, like I said, you you know, you can look at tuition and complain, oh, it's so expensive and and it's so expensive to live in the Jewish community and it's gross are expensive and I I think it's like we're all going to say that and you know, we're all going to want to talk about that at times time, but in the end of the day, I mean, that's just like that's just where we are. Just the reality. >> Exactly. And >> just the reality, >> right? Wow, Shalom, I was very happy that you came on. Thank you. Thank [clears throat] you for having me. >> I know you're uh you're probably feeling what am I doing on this podcast? But uh you offered so many insights that I want people to hear, and that's what the podcast is about is about giving our audience crucial information. >> Um I can't wait to hear feedback from everyone, please. Like you've been doing so well. And thank you again for coming on. >> Yeah, thank you for having me. G thank you for giving me the opportunity. And uh so I wish you all the best. >> Very good. [snorts] >> Thank you.