Unite to Heal 36 hours Live Stream Event

who are not part of ahmudim many of you are but some of you aren't amadeem unite to heal provide services to help uh mitigate some of the difficulties and some of the circumstances which make many different difficulties in life easier to handle um mental health uh food people are food challenge people are living Challenge and we are here tonight um on this little get together to talk about addiction which has a myriad of directions that we can go but um my name is Sergeant and tonight Tom Tom Arnold and I are going to chit chat and and talk about our own personal Journeys and what we have been through and the solutions and the remedies the stigmas um some of the things that we have have done to achieve a level of sobriety and to stay clean um also um the aspect of it that is so uh prevalent in amudim which is uniting to heal there is no Sarge and I can speak for Tom I think when I say there is no sober Tom Arnold um unless we Unite with other people who have traveled the same roads that we have and have been on the same Journey that we've been on um and so consequently here we are and um I want to welcome Tom Arnold on on the conversation also how you doing Tom good man it's an honor to be here number one I'm with a fellow alcoholic and so anytime there's two of us together uh that's a meeting and I can always use it I'm honored to be involved with this this uh program because of of the the kindness aspects of it and the compassion and and you know uh I this disease addiction affects every community and and I think that uh I think that's important but I think that the things that saves me every day is being a part of the addiction Community a part of the recover recovery community and part of that is being of service like we are today it's a very selfish thing for me being a service because it benefits me the most and uh you know maybe I'll share a little bit about my my journey sorry so that you could share your journey if you don't mind well just to frame it inherent to the Jewish Community yes um there was a psychiatrist from Pittsburgh named um Abraham toursky and he was one of the original dictionologists and original psychiatrist who was also a rabbi and he brought a lot of secular crossover into the religious aspect of his own personal life he Blended his recovery life with his religious life and if you heard swirski speak and twersky was very big with amudim and with uh the Jewish Charities um but as it turns out he was able to find a way that it not be so religious but that it be recovery and when it comes to God when it comes to a higher power when it comes to whatever you call your higher power or however that came to be for you um it was interesting how this this Rabbi toersky who I I was fortunate enough to get to meet um in Miami at an event a number of years ago and we both spoke on the same panel it was absolutely life-changing because he explained the importance of the higher power in the journey whether we were aware of it or not the higher power being there all along so I just wanted to make that statement because that's the group that we're that we're speaking to tonight and I would love to hear about how you began your journey really where your sobriety began yeah and and where the light came on for you you know in that way well let me just say this about God some people get bugged about it I believe obviously I didn't create all this I didn't I look at my kids I'm like oh yeah I did everything I did look outside it did everything I think it's important I always tell guys they're like yeah I don't want to be religious it's it's a spiritual program it doesn't matter what your religion is or whatever you just have to believe that something greater than you out there it could be that doorknob you could that could you could start with that but there's something greater and it's certainly has made made things easier for me that I'm not responsible for everything that I I'm not the guy you know there's something greater out there and certainly I've seen the evidence of it I that's just the way I look at it um you know I started I'm from a small town in Iowa uh there were four Jewish families and uh uh and we used to say uh yeah not enough to hate but uh there were there was a small community and my my grandparents on my mother's side uh uh worked in the meat packing plant in fact it was uh uh pork processing plant believe it or not but it was a it was a small tight knit Community they had the high holy days where it already seagulls Western Wear and they'd have a rabbi come down for duboid and they go back of Artie seagulls and uh he was a character but you know when I came to La I had a Stepside that was tied to get bar mitzvid and so I studied with him for a year at the University of synagogue down here because I didn't know enough you know and uh and what the rabbi told me was at the end of it well what what do you think uh Judaism is how do you define it and he I said I don't know what goes around Cubs are out he said that's it well it goes around comes right so being a part of an organization like this or doing this with usard is a such a blessing for me and I will live another day because of it I I grew up where everybody drank everybody it was a hard you know it was it was a hard town it's a meat packing plant town you know and so from an early age I I started drinking I suppose 12 or 13. um and I started getting arrested you know because that's what happens you start you get advice with police you act like a fool you get arrested and I kept thinking I remember being in the back of a squad car uh uh thinking there's something better for me out there if I could just get it get a handle on this stuff there is something better and I think I'm gonna blow it but I always believed in something greater out there and and in my case it turned out to be you know I had dreams to be an actor you know which is crazy if you're from us that small town I had dreams of you know I remember working at the meat packing plant which I worked on the kill floor of the meat packing plant for three years after high school to say buddy for college because I do oh if I get to that college that I'm going to have a chance because people are different there there's all kinds of different people at the University of Iowa in my hometown Ottumwa everybody looked the same everybody did the same but I said if I could get out of here do that and I used to daydream here I don't know if you've ever worked at a meat Packer Club but your your chiseling heads or you're doing voted hams or whatever you do and you Daydream and I remember I had a Daydream that I was best friends with Robin Williams and first let me say Robin Williams who is one of us uh everything good you've ever heard about Robin Williams is true and then some and if I call him at three in the morning and said so-and-so's in trouble whether he knew him or not he'd be he'd be like Tom let's go get him and when you say one of us Tom and when you say one of us um I know what you mean but explain to the people what that means he was one of us Robert was a a recovering uh uh alcoholic you know and he worked very hard in Robin's case uh he was dealing with three things and and uh um he had a mental illness he had a brain disease he had Parkinson's so maybe more than three um what what I anyway I would Daydream I was best friends with Robin Williams said I get home from the meat packet plant and I'd be look in the mirror like I'm crazy I have to quit having dreams because it's so disappointing what that they're not gonna come true and ten years later I'm sitting at Robin Williams house because we're doing a movie Nine Months and and we have a the night before we started working on the movie he had a dinner and then at the end of it I'm sitting there with Robin and I said I've been here before and he's like in my house I go no no here me you best friends and he said we're not best friends I go I know but it's it's close enough to my dream so with Robin like a lot of us it's you don't know you can't get a handle on your mental illness or whatever that other thing is until you get clean and sober and a lot of people have dual addictions you know I had to get cleated sober before I dealt with things that happened in my childhood you know there was a pedophile in my neighborhood uh uh something I just blocked out blocked out blocked out and then when I got sober I went oh yeah and I ended up tracking the guy down and you know he's a big religious leader he has big business of course uh made super Christian guy uh you know and I found him and and I went to his place of business and confronted him and didn't I didn't beat him up or I didn't want to get in more trouble but I confronted him and it felt like a big I came out of there and I felt like a ton of bricks had been taken off my my chest and I went right over to the Iowa capitol building to the governor's office said you got to do something about this guy because the police say the statute of limitations is up and and you got to stop he's a he's about to adopt his fourth son and he said that Governor type Terry Branson said oh my God that'd be a federal offense you're asking me to commit a federal offense I'm not even going to pretend you weren't here get out of here we you know and then about uh four days later my brother called who'd found him my brothers are really good about fighting people and said the his adoption fell through the guy's adoption that paperwork staff who whatever and I that's God right there but then I thought have I done enough have I confronted the guy I did this and and so I put up posters kid high six blocks around his house I had my brothers redo them every few days saying his name his face his crimes and I just felt like I had to uh let the other kids know and that's again one of the gifts of sobriety is that happen and then my sister of course who was a gangster and uh they did there's a documentary series about her called the queen of Meth she was the biggest drug dealer in America she got busted of course that's what happens and during her trial I went back to Iowa to support her that's what you do with your your family and and a person came up to me and said I I know I know uh who I know about the guy that that raped you uh because he did the same thing to his own brother who I'm married to and then 30 other kids came forward adults now but they saw that and they said oh yeah I'm from that neighborhood this is what happened you know there was so much shame attached to that and I think with boys you're you're you know you're always going I got to keep that I definitely got to keep that a secret because that seems but uh because I got sober I could do it the right way too you know I practiced what I was going to say to the guy and and handled it the right way and did it you know as many legal things as I could and got the word out and that's just something that would have never happened if I hadn't got so it made it easier to stay sober because I didn't have that cloud right here tell us though tell us though about I'm I'm interested in in knowing the linchpin point the point at which your addiction was something that you had to do something about and you began to do something about it and then the lights came on regarding the solution you know because these are these are all these are all you know repressed trauma horrible things that happen to you horrible things that happened in your family you personally you know your recovery Journey when did you get sober um the last time and that was it when you just you know I I uh my mother was a just a terrible alcoholic she she left our family when I was four she left me with that babysitter so uh you know I I do what alcoholism looked like you know she was married seven times in our small town she made my sister get married when she was 14 to a 22 year old pedophile I mean that's that's how you end up in the drug business I think um I I I got arrested a bunch of times too for a drunk driving fighting with the police doing these things I kept you know in the back of my mind I kept thinking I've got to I've got to get it together and in 1986 I went to my first 12-step meeting and and and I liked you know there were some people that I'd known there and it was the first time I tried to be sober I didn't go enough and I stayed sober for six months and then I was this in Iowa was this I moved to Minneapolis by then I moved to Minneapolis um in 1989 though after I moved to Los Angeles to write the rose ad show in um I got out here and and I met a dealer like my first day and and he was a big dealer and he said I could sell you in quantity it's cheaper and I was like oh yeah that's what I got to do because I have a job at this good writing job oh I'll buy quantity I'll buy more than I need so that I won't do it and I don't think I've ever I ever went to bed without doing everything drinking every drink doing you know and and so I escalated once I got out here and I ended up the hospital once and then in 1989 it was a it was a big it was a big public thing and I was driving home to my fiance Roseanne in our house and I went to the game did you ever have this kind of money in your pocket either I mean it was the oh you but no I hadn't but but they're just there's never enough money for this people are saying only if I had this much money then I could do what I wanted and I wouldn't want to do it and that's this disease is a killer this disease is waiting for you to think that so uh we lived up there at a bed at Academy and I went to our gate and I couldn't remember the code you know and it was my birthday that was the code I had to go up and on Mulholland they'd call it Roseanne and and say can you come down the gate let me and I knew she'd be so bad and so I parked the car there and she she pulls her car up gets out of the car comes towards me I thought well she's gonna hit me or you know I deserve that or whatever but but she just hugged me and said I just want you to come home and that moment uh you know know that was a Moment of clarity from God right that like that's not what is supposed to happen and I I it really uh uh stuck with me it still has stuck with me and I went back and then I got a cab and I went to rehab and uh uh you know I haven't I learned things in in that first rehab uh you know my sobriety has been a process you know I haven't drank since the 80s but at 19 years sober I wrecked my motorcycle on PCH and I'd always said to people hey I'm not an opioid guy I I was a booze a cocaine or whatever I don't get it what you guys the opioids but at 90 years sober I was laying on PCH and the ambulance came are you in pain and I said yeah and he said I've got to fix that it gave me a shot of Fentanyl and I was like oh no that's that's what I've needed my whole life that so I took a 20-year cake knowing I was still on the pain medication from the summer before which is inappropriate then I started over I started my sobriety over and and with the new lessons I learned and I never stopped going to to 12-step meetings I never stopped being of service I never stopped being around people that's what saved my life is along this process when I've had a bump of the road I've got a great group of people uh like yourself Sarge that that uh you know that live a good life and I could you know just being around them has been very helpful how did I miss you how did I miss you I I was I lived in Los Angeles for 11 years I went to the Log Cabin five days a week I went to the Virgin America meeting in the basement of the Virgin Store on Sunset across from the Laugh Factory every Saturday I went after that meeting I would go over to Roxbury for the CA meeting and sit with Shadow at that meeting I I don't know how I missed you ever because I was I was ever everywhere conceivably because I just love sober friends so much and love being around the unite to heal thing I don't feel as comfortable around just regular people um I don't feel like like socially personally emotionally I don't feel like I can totally be myself unless I'm around other people like you like you and I we've never really broken bread we've never spent a lot of time together yet we could get together like this and I know you're telling the truth every step of the way I it's totally legit totally valid um how did we miss each other in this journey I I don't I don't know how that happened but yeah well you know the thing is you and I the you know we sit there we go oh he knows me I know him he I know you know and a lot of times you get together with people in recovery and that the stories you tell are horrible to other people they're frightening I was thinking I was gonna do this and they start laughing that's crazy because but it but it's it's helpful I have to say two five and a half years ago a little bit five and a half years ago I became my own doctor and I started taking benzos and benzos are you know be careful with benzos like like uh Xanax and things like that and I it became a problem so I went back five and a half years ago to another rehab and worked on that and because at the time my kids were four and one and I just I just knew I can't be a good father and you know have any kind of issues like this so my you know relapse has been a part of my journey and and I tell people you know not to give up obviously and don't let people shame you you know we have a disease you know the best thing you could do is get around other people that have that disease and and you know there's organizations like this and and uh it shines a light on this stuff because if if there's so much shame involved and you know this art I know this from when I was using that the secret and the lies and the shame you know and I don't have to do that anymore that's a big relief tonight I have to get my story straight you know it's just it's a great relief no that's amazing um you know to give you a little thumbnail because you have no idea um when I when I got sober it was because I'd been homeless for about nine months in New York City now I grew up in um Long Island in a very wealthy suburb called Great Neck I moved to Manhattan I went to Juilliard I was a child prodigy I was supposed I was marked for greatness um I ended up in New York City in Manhattan and after a number of career changes which we're not going to get into because we only have one evening um I ended up homeless on the streets of New York behind three different kinds of addictions I was on um I was on angel dust I was on crack I was on ketamine and I was drinking and I was stealing for my habit and you know people ask me well when did you know things were going to be different I didn't know things were going to be different but what happened was I still had a lot of friends left over because I had been a modeling agent a booking agent in the modeling business I had worked in the television uh production I worked for CBS Sports on on 6 Avenue with BlackRock I had a bunch of amazing jobs I had no problem getting hired I just couldn't stay anywhere like I would get hired places because of my personality and because of my engagement and then people would say um we we can't keep you here you can't you know you can't stay because we there's something wrong with you and we're not sure what it is it could have been the angel dust I was smoking in the bathroom the PCP to make a long story short when I finally the bottom dropped out of my life and I ended up on the streets I had one friend left who I asked if I could use his apartment because he didn't know I was homeless and he went to Aspen to go skiing and he said I'll leave the keys with the doorman and he left the keys and I went and I used the apartment and shortly after that I had to get high because I had a 300 a day crack habit so I took all the things I could find in the drawers at the jewelry uh a couple of very expensive Van Cleef and Arpels watches cufflinks a necklace a gold brooch uh some diamond stud earrings that he had from his grandmother I took them all I went down to 47th Street to the Hasidic Jewelry Exchange down there I traded it in for about three grand I went and did a major blowout which lasted me about three days when he came home he couldn't find his stuff he didn't know what to make of it we ran into each other on the street believe it or not we ran into each other on the street I was homeless but I ran into this guy and he said to me where's my stuff and I said um I I I I sold it for drugs and I was very heavy I was about 360 pounds at the time I was the fattest crack addict in New York and uh so he said what kind of drugs are you using I said crack he says it must be some very high calorie crack he says you're you're quite heavy I said well I know I said uh I I can't explain it so he said well let's get you some help then and instead of pressing charges instead of calling the cops he went to an intervention counselor and 24 hours later I was on a flight and I was headed to uh a place called Delray Beach Florida um so this was nine years of drinking and drugging and now I show up on the steps of a treatment center at 10 15 in the evening no detox um there was you know back in those days you know to give you a time frame this was the day after Christmas 1990. so should I just still happen to stay sober another month or so um that will be my 33rd sober for Christmas but not bragging just saying I walk in and this gentleman meets me at the door and he says uh wow he says uh you really stink he says uh are you an alcoholic and I said uh no no I'm a crack addict I do uh all kinds of other drugs I do a PCP Academy and all these other things he says well um uh you're not an alcoholic I said no no I'm a drug addict I just drink when I can't get drugs and he says okay right right he says uh how many drinks did you have on the plane and I said well I had um uh I had 11 11. I had 11 drinks on the plane and he said well it's a good thing you're not an alcoholic I said why is that he said because an alcoholic would have had 12 drinks he says so you're one drink shy of alcoholism he says let's get to work on the crack and he and he took me into the place and uh he went through my luggage which was a a trash bag not from a kitchen but a bathroom trash bag like a small little sack and he said why don't you go in the other room and ask God to remove the obsession to drink and Drug from your life and I said who and he said God I said God now I've been Bar Mitzvah I've been to shul as a kid you know we went every every every Sabbath we we celebrated the holidays but you know what I never really had anything to do with God I never prayed really I I mean I may have prayed the Foxhole prayers when you when you were hoping you weren't going to get suspended from school or when a girl was going to break up with you or when you were going to get fired or or whatever I've never really connected and he said please go in the other room and hit your knees and ask for the obsession to be removed so I went in the other room and I did it I sat in a chair and I sitting up I hit my knees with my hands I was tapping my knees and I came out and the gentleman said to me um did you do it and I said yes I did and he says well then come on let's go get you checked in we'll put you in your room and uh and so that's what they did and I did that thing and he took me to the room and I woke up the next day and for some reason the spell had been broken um and you know this is true I mean a lot of people don't believe you but I'm a one and done guy I didn't have the desire to there were no fences there were no electric fences there were no barbed wire there were no locks on the doors that I was in Florida you know where you can go this way or that way and get whatever you need if you wait at the beach a bale of cocaine will eventually walk up at your feet in Florida so I had no desire and um the spell had been broken I stayed there for 42 days now incidentally there are no coincidences that gentleman who met me at the door at 10 15 at night the day after Christmas 1990 is my sponsor to this day he was The Clinical Director of this particular little mom-and-pop treatment center but he's my guy Mike he's still my guy um and so there I am 42 days I lived in a halfway house after being from Big Bad fantastic unbelievable New York and all of this ivy league education that I was exposed to I'm a guy bringing the carts off a lot at Home Depot and 104 degree heat in South Florida because I was told the way you eat an elephant is one bite at a time and um and so there I was I got myself a sponsored and then uh uh you know I was encouraged by my sponsor to meditate and he said to me uh why don't you go on the beach and go get honest with yourself and think about what you would attempt to do with your life if you couldn't fail I said who am I gonna who am I gonna talk to he goes well talk to God and once again this God thing came up and I was like okay I'll talk to God like and I I went along with it well anyhow I went to the beach and um I closed my eyes and I made an attempt to do the 11th step which in our fellowship of recovery is um to to to improve my conscious contact with my higher power asking only for his knowledge of his will for uh me and the power to carry that out and so through prayer and meditation and so I went and I I do little prayers and I meditated I sat quietly and I got a vision in my mind of a time when I was six when my grandfather took me in a place called grossingers which was the Catskill Mountains and he took me to see Don Rickles opening for Sammy Davis Jr in this gigantic showroom and I was six and I was under the table with a tablecloth over me and my grandfather moved the tablecloth to the side and I remember watching Rickles work in that room sweating bullets sweating Israeli bullet behind the table and I Saw 2 000 people in shambles and I remember at six thinking I don't know what this guy's talking about but I want to do that yeah and so when I went to my next group meeting I said to him I said I know what I want to do I want to be a comedian now this all happened under the auspices of God cut to New York I'm on my journey now I'm someone who prays and meditates every single day I'm someone who can't drink before I go on stage or smoke a joint in order to take away and in amudim circles they would call it spilkus spilkus is you know spookus is not butterflies in your stomach it's pterodactyls yeah I don't have that luxury and I'm in New York doing open mics and um I pray in the bathroom and then I go on fearlessly um with all of my Character defects sequestered and quarantined for the moment I'm going on stage to be a comedian and um I go up at this club on the upper west side called Stand Up New York and uh I come off stage after this one particularly decent set and a Gentleman grabs me by the elbow and he says um you're the reason I come here I said really and I said are you are you hitting on me or he goes no no no I was a comedian he says I live in the neighborhood I pop in I'm always glad to see you're going to be performing and I'm nobody at this point I'm still nobody but I'm even more nobody then so now he says come on let's go grab a slice so I said I can eat and he says yeah you look like you can eat and so now we go out of the place and we go to the corner and uh every corner had a pizza place a Korean market and a Starbucks I don't know what it's like now in New York but that's what it was and so we go to the corner it was uh Ray's Pizza original famous authentic genuine race so we go in and the guy says you want a beer and I said I learned this from my gurus in Florida from sobriety I said I don't drink and he says you don't drink why do you emphasize don't and I say it's because shouldn't means things go crazy when I do can't means I still want to don't means I don't and so I take you to just a snippet of neuro-linguistic programming not only do we have to change our friends and our places and our people we have to change our words because we hear ourselves and when we're full of it and when we're not speaking the right words we actually are wrongly programming the hard drive and so my guys knew this I don't know how they knew it but I learned don't I don't misrepresent myself I don't take things that don't belong to me anymore I don't embellish embroider or try to impress people I don't drink these are the things I don't do and he said to me wow you don't drink he says why don't you drink I said because I'm an alcoholic he says doesn't that mean you do drink I said no it means I used to drink now I don't he says so you're one of those AAA people you go to those meetings I said yes I'll go to AAA I'd ride around with a uh jumper cables and a gallon of gas in the car in case someone no I go to AAA I go to double a I go to the AAA meetings where I got Perry Street I go to Perry Street I go to the 79th Street Workshop like over a year ago over there he says wow he said that's amazing how'd you get sober and I told them the story I just told you Tom I said you know well I I you know I went to this place the guy told me to hit my knees I woke up the next day and never drank or drugged again he said to me and who did this for you I said God and I he says and you believe that and I said well yeah that's that's the story I've been going with for the last four and a half years he says to me well he says um do you suppose you would have prayed if that gentleman didn't invite you to when you arrived at that place and I said no I I would probably not have prayed had he not invited me to he says had you prayed a lot before you got to that but I said no I hadn't he said so let me ask you something do you suppose it might have been something about being invited to or directed to that could have been just as important as the prayer itself because had you not been ready to take the direction had you not been ready to take the invitation and do what you were told there would have been no prayer there would have been no transition there would have been no conscious contact there may have not have been any waking up the next day without that desire to do that and I thought to myself wow so you mean the taking of the direction was as important as the prayer itself he said maybe even more so and it kind of twisted my head and then we began to have our pizza and he gave me his card at the end and he told me if I ever want to come to the light show the laser light show at the planetarium um I was more than welcome to and um I put the card in my pocket I didn't think anything of it and then a couple months later I was on the road I think I was in Slidell Louisiana and I'm in some Hotel drinking a diet coke and eating a Snickers bar after a show and um I emptied out my pants and the card that fell out of these pants that I've been wearing and um it fell on the floor and I put it on the desk and then I laid down to watch some TV and I'm flipping around the channels and all of a sudden there's the guy he started on that Geo he's got a show he's talking about the universe and he's talking about you know it was Neil it was Neil deGrasse Tyson that's good I like him and he's not a god guy yeah oh my sober friends are God guys and so I learned one of the biggest pieces of spiritual aspiration inspiration from somebody that's not even a god guy that I need to be someone who is willing to take direction from people who know how to do this because otherwise I have no shot Tom on an ongoing basis at either staying clean or becoming the kind of person that doesn't resort to letting his addictions become the better part of him again it would be impossible to function as a rabbi or a communal leader without a modem I recognize my limitations and very often there are many challenges that are presented on our desk that we don't know where to go so we have to turn to the people who have the professional experience both in social work both in addiction both in whatever the challenge may be so I look at my role as a conduit to get people to the place where they can be healthy that's where a movement comes in there are so many different counselors therapists individuals who are willing to help you no matter what time of day or night it is across the spectrum that a mudum has helped me on so many different varied issues because they recognize they have one job their job is to help every Jew anywhere on the face of the Earth and so I know right now in your life you're engaged in a in a struggle and in a difficult time that you're working through right now and it's entirely on the side of family that's entirely on the side of love and and and and strength and courage what you're about and what you're doing and I know you're doing that and you couldn't do this if you were still battling yourself you know um right you're right and I I thank God every day that I am and five half years ago when I was taking the Xanax there it I had a feeling something in my head said it's gonna be this is it it's good it's over this is what's gonna happen it's gonna take you have to go back a day at a time get your sobriety back but this is it something changed in my brain because I I still holding out of that I'm very grateful you know you you talk about uh uh you know when I first got sober the first time I did not like the guy in the mirror at all so you're supposed to love yourself and I did not I hated myself but I I did a trick that a guy said do you have any pictures of yourself when you were four and I said I'll find what he said carry that and when you feel like that pull that out and you feel like maybe you're not worth it pull that picture out and look at yourself when you were four and and say that kid's worth it I'm going to be here for that kid that kid deserves to be protected that day he deserves and so that is was very helpful to me because that kid's also part of me obviously and so but I used it I still use it you know I'll see that picture I'll go that kid man nobody was looking out for him I'm gonna do that and then when you have your own children which you know in nine nine and a half years ago my son was born six and a half my daughter uh that is such a game changer because the moment they're both you always say oh I want to have unconditional love and you get buried like I have it but you both say you love each other conditionally but that's just not true there's conditions as there should be but the moment my son was born I looked at him and I just felt there is so much unconditional love both ways I mean he's going to love me whether I'm a terrible dad or a great dad so I'm going to be a great dad and now I can't complain that I've never been unconditionally loved I got four Ex-Wives and uh I I used to be able to say well I've never really been unconditionally loved but but I can't say that anymore because I I have I am and I have and uh you know as as you said the issues I'm dealing with or uh things that involve the kids which are the most you know I've really had to work on my remind myself be sober number one be because anytime you do a battle as it were you want to be your best and and the worst thing I could do is even because people are rooting against me and I'm sure that they're you've been in a position where they're that somebody they're just counting on me to is to screw up but I I'm here for my kids and I'm I'm strong and it's not always easy you know uh I'm not tempted to use I could get there it could something could come by head like I don't want to feel any of this um maybe I'll be sneaky maybe I'll do this thing but knock on wood it it has been different and you know I tell people they said you want a drink I say uh I have an allergy to alcohol I mean that's what I did a long time and people are like oh I get that you have an allergy and alcohol but we really do because physiologically at least for me you know I was bored with this you know I see it in my mother I see it I thought you were going to go to the old joke but you know when someone says would you like a drink and you say no I'm allergic every time I drink I break out in handcuffs yeah that's it that well that was yeah but uh but you know whatever it takes to you know and I don't know about you but at the end of my drinking my drugs I was isolating it was just me once I moved to LA excuse me in 88 to write that show our mayor Roseanne came up to me and we were we were buddies or we'd started dating or something and and she and I used to get together in the Midwest and to go do stand-up comedy on the road and get trashed the two of us but then when I moved to L.A whoever went down to the writers she said oh do you do this every day I thought you'll like party when you're with me on the road I go no I do it every day because that's bad I go is it wow and that then immediately I knew I've got to hide it from her I didn't go oh I got to get my stuff together I went okay I could never be honest with her again about this thing and uh and so you know I I'm uh well you know you know what's interesting about that you know that you're talking about shame and I can relate to that because shame is it was a was all that was my game my whole game was shame I didn't use with other people when I hear people talking about oh I drink with these people I party with those people I smoke with those bills I didn't party with anybody it wasn't a party when I used I didn't first of all I don't like to share alcohol or drugs with people okay I like to have everything that I've been able to acquire just for me there are no other squirrels in this tree this is my trade I'm alone I need to be alone because I'm ashamed of how gigantic my problem is and an interesting caveat and an interesting piece of business was when I was taught the phrase I don't tell God how big my problems are I tell my problems how big my God is and I was taught to understand that the thing that I pray to whoever you are and wherever you are and in this context in ahmadine they call him Hashem um I I tell my problems how how big my higher power is and then by comparison it shrinks it helps me to you know my contact my conscious contact the fact that I set aside time to pray and and meditate about gratitude gratitude gratitude um it has changed me they can change my liver they can change my kidneys they can change a lung perhaps maybe give me I have I have I have knees I have knee Replacements they can give me a new shoulder but my brain they can't change they can't swap out your brain they can give you a new part they still can't do anything about your brain the only thing I can do is do the inside Journey the I'm the only one that can give myself a transplant for my brain and and I've heard throughout your story it's so amazing because you you got sober and then you had a bunch of issues that you had to deal with repressed childhood trauma anxiety I know there was a time when you couldn't you couldn't keep you in a chair I mean you were like literally bouncing around like a ping pong ball it's amazing that you have matured and grown up and gotten to a place where you've been clean and sober so many times and for so long now um 99 of the time you've been aware that this needed to be addressed you've done this and it's a preponderance of the actions that you've taken and it doesn't matter whether we've done it continuously one time and done like I did or tripping and falling tripping and falling and tripping and falling and recommitting and recommitting and recommitting as you've done it doesn't make any difference there's still a stigma in the Jewish Community around a lot of these young people who when they get high or drunk and they have an alcohol or drug problem they're ostracized from the community and I do so no no they they they just there's certain sects of Judaism which um forgive and allow you back in but there are certain sects that turn away from you as broken you're broken we're done with you you're out I sponsor a guy who's you know one of those kids who's been turned out by his very religious family so I want to make a statement here in this forum to say that um addiction and I think you'll co-sign this with me addiction is a gift because if not for this gift that I've been given of my addiction I would not have worked as hard as I have to become a better person in any way shape or form my addiction is a gift because it's in triumph over it I've gotten closer to God I've become the kind of person that I'm proud to be and I'm still working on it um and so um it's a god-given gift just like my eye color my height the size of my feet um my out my alcoholism my drug addiction um are not something that I asked for there's something that was pre pre-loaded into my DNA and only something so coded into my DNA would require this much work to overcome and so consequently that's why once we're an alcoholic an alcoholic for life we know we have to pray and meditate and be spiritual up to our eyebrows immersed in a preponderance of spiritual actions so that we can become who we're supposed to be as opposed to who we became yeah well we're very lucky you know I think with the the first time someone said you got to hit your knees and pray to God just the idea of hit buddy I was like I'm gonna do it the easy way I'm just going to stand no no you've got to humble yourself I know you did you know you and I have a big egos we have to to do what we do for a living but we're we're humble we know who we are you I it is a gift too I feel that but but this gift that we have of being alcoholic so being you know the the great thing about doing something like this is we could you know there's a lot of people today with the drugs that kids take and people there they do it once they're dead you know and and I think when we look back and go bad we used to do a lot of stuff and why are we alive so it's it's extra scary it's extra great for parents it's extra scary for everyone and uh um you know you love you love your kids unconditionally there are ways to help them to support them uh um you know to not abandon them uh without destroying your life too and I think that that we both know ways to do that but it's also extra important right now to to think if kids can go to a party and take one pill and they're dead and and or so anybody can have that so people used to be uh uh you know I'm not judging what people uh uh do and normal people can have a couple drinks they do and old people when they have too many drinks once they go oh I feel terrible I have a hangover I'm not ever doing that again that's normal people people like you and I were like I need more that here's the problem I don't have enough of that is and we take risks you know you and I could be easily dead but we take risks and then we have to know that there's a lot of other people doing that same they're risk taking and and you know and it takes a lot to to convince a young person you are worth it life is worth it this is such a gift every day you know you say to yourself well maybe down the line you'll have a heart attack or you'll have some kind of cancer or something then you'll realize it no no because we're addicts we need to realize it every single day and I feel like that too I've had some health issues like you have and and but I every day is a gift I'm so grateful for every day yeah yeah and and you know as I've used my comedic career skills um and mess them with my sobriety yeah yeah you're very good at that you're very funny you're very let me just say something about you I have a there's a kids a special needs kids uh school here uh the Kate Air Center in Los Angeles and you were kind enough to uh do our fundraiser roast for the great Stan Winston and we raised four million dollars and these are you know these are kids that that really appreciate it and I really appreciate you those throws were crazy by the way I just thought as you remember well you want to hear you want to hear something funny from that evening I was sitting at the you we didn't know each other yet but they put me last because of my energy yeah and um so they sat me down at the end of the day I said you had a lot of Heavy Hitters that night you had Sarah Silverman you had David Gee you there were a whole bunch of name guys there and I was kind of like the guy on the end and I'm sitting down there and on my right is is Schwarzenegger yeah so I'm on the day yes and I'm one and a roasts are hard because you you write I mean Stan Winston everybody had the same Google search and everyone had the same information on Stan so I wrote a bunch of jokes for the roast and now I'm sitting there with a legal pad watching the roast from the end and the worst spot in a roast is last because the jokes are disappearing as the evening progresses everything you thought of is God oh he was a dentist oh he did this so he did that and then so now I'm sitting there and I I put my head in my hands and I gave up now I've already prayed I've already done my meditation because I've never been on stage without first doing my I I wear my body armor I call it I do six I do I do 6 000 gratitudes so anyway I'm sitting here and uh Arnold Schwarzenegger who I've never spoken to at this point he Taps me he goes he says what's wrong I said what's wrong I said they're doing all the jokes I wrote all the jokes that disappearing I can't do this I'm gonna bomb this is going to be horrible we're at the Beverly Hills Hotel it's packed everyone's getting big laughs and I am going to be the dud of the night and so he says to me nobody's made fun of me yet he says why don't you roast me forget about Stan they all have the stand jokes he says he says I'll give you some material come on you like cigars I said sure he says come on we sneak out we'll go out in the courtyard so we went out in the courtyard and Arnold gave me a bunch of things that no one else knows jokes and I sat and I wrote a bunch of new things about Arnold and I got up and I actually survived it um by doing Arnold instead of Stan and um that was that night and I'll never forget it as long as I live and then he gave me his card with a phone number written on it his personal phone number and he said here he says you should call me we should get together I find you to be very refreshing very entertaining what a great guy I said okay and I put it in my wallet well Tom maybe you can speak to this there's a two-week if you don't call the person within two weeks you're done you can't call them because he can't he won't remember who you are he won't so I kept the card I never called him maybe that was my problem in Hollywood but um I didn't have the uh I didn't have the guts you know I wasn't a climber I wasn't somebody that attached myself to people I've always been sober since I was out there um I came out there with my recovery and I've only been friends with people uh that I'm organically uh attached to um I've always felt like I never needed more if it didn't come from God then it wasn't for me and um and so consequently here I am uh in in uh I mean God's waiting room in Florida for one thing you're you're the anchor of the roast which means you're the best that you're absolutely they don't put we don't put guys that are not the best there were two Arnold loves comedy he loves comedians he considers himself a comedian you know he'd roasted him that I don't know if it's next year when he was governor and you get the jokes were just people are like oh my God why are you but he loves that he's such a good guy you know what the Jim Jefferies do you know Jim Jefferies Australian yeah yeah yeah great guy he got hired to do a private party at Brett ratner's house and uh Warren Beatty was there at Al Pacino all these people and he did he was nervous like am I supposed to make fun of these guys it could go bad anyway he gets up at the table and uh and makes it gets it going it goes pretty well and Warren Beatty comes up to him afterwards and said here's my card I want to work with you so Jim Jefferies the next week Cold War babies office and his assistant answered and she said who is this Jim Jefferies we bet it uh just a second and she and when he could hear her say it inward dating Jim Jefferies you met him at uh the Brett ratner's house and you can also hear him say I have no idea who that is hung up that you know for comedians it's always better if the story is you know if we're not the hero of every story and uh but but I get why you didn't want to call people I get that I also but Tom you know now I I've been given a much purer approach to with my comedy I use I listen my whole job on this planet I understand to be is to make people joyful and make them happy and take no credit for it because um had I been more successful on a national scale had I been more uh well known around the world who knows if I'd still be clean and sober the point is I've been given a task I've been given a job I've been given a mission I stay on task I stay on job I stay on Mission I show up wherever I'm invited to go whether it's a dollar or a thousand dollars um I do whatever I have to do to make people happy happy I sign every letter I sent to people every email looking forward to making you very happy I don't know where I did all the happy from but it must come from God because being mixed being picked on having a lot of the same childhood traumas as you did having been through a lot of the addiction problems that you've had same same story basically different month different year different state at the end of the day to have this much happy must mean that it's a gift from someplace gigantic well also also your idol story is perfect you know who knows what would happen if you call that the story of you and Arnold having those moments together and him helping you that's the whole run you know and uh yeah I would be I mean I talk to them all type but that's only because but but I'd be nervous like I've weird about calling him down like geez I don't want to call they'd all sudden he'll FaceTime me at 11 at night there's his face case I don't want to bug people the thing about you is you're so talented that's the number one thing am I good at what I do am I talented yeah I'll take that over any kind of success number one I'm good because we know people that aren't and and I'll tell you man it it careers Go in different ways sometimes you're uh get discovered you're 20 and sometimes you're 50 sometimes you're 60 but you go back go I'm respected I I love what I do I'm very good at it that's what that's what I think about you you're very good at you also share your sobriety um that's that this is where exactly the bet we all want to be if we all want more more and more and more but you're so talented you can't you you wouldn't trade that it's a talent you have it for more success you just won't do it you wouldn't be the same guy you wouldn't be able to help other people you wouldn't be able to share honestly to be honest so that's what we're here we're at this tiny planet in this big universe and sometimes we think oh I am the most important they they you know but we're not this is you know we're important we're important to loving people being loved being of service change of the world little by little by little put good ripples out there because we used to put bad ripples out there and that's how we were living our life and now and now we've turned it around well I'm just glad to be part of the natural order of the universe and ever since I you know like the zebras stay with the zebras and the whales stay with the whales and like the alcoholics and the drug addicts and apparently tonight the Jews we say you know you know I mean you and I would never walk up to each other on the street and say hello Jew how are you yeah you know but because of uh you know it's it's funny our Judaism is nowhere near as important to us as our sobriety because without our sobriety none of these other wonderful things it has to be number one and people like well you have kids it's like if you're on an airplane and there's a problem but the airplane Dives and the bass drops down you're supposed to put on yourself before you put it on your kid and that's how I look at it like this is the number one thing I have to do the thing about Judaism once you have kids you start going okay I gotta we're gonna do this like you get real sanctimoniously it's like I don't need to and then you see your little kids like oh no I need to we need to do all this stuff and it'll be good for them they maintaining an addiction you know I forget what you said you spent a day uh is is hard it takes your all your brain power oh yeah but you know the thing is if we could do that if we could buy drugs on a on a desert island which we can then anything else in our life you know it's all gravy where we learn to do that was in a room full of people that weren't there they weren't there to be entertained they were there to hear about my my gut level my real story my my who are you who are you and why should we sit here for 45 minutes and listen to you um and that's where I learned how to I I learned I learned that's why I learned not to lie I learned not to hide I didn't I didn't have to hide I didn't have to lie I didn't have to make anything up all I had to do was show up and and the unconditional love that was there for me brought out a different side of my ability to convey humor through my actual story okay so when you sit in a group like that and you tell the worst thing you did and somebody's nodding nobody's judging it everybody's like oh yeah I get that I get that's a great feeling to go I mean this is my place this is my safe place where I could really share all of my you know characters and then you don't carry that shame if you you know because we love Carriage shape anyway well thank you thank you so much Tom for this time that we got to spend together I I can feel us tailing off so we should probably just say um good night and and God bless and I look forward to seeing you in person um in the near future and I I'll be thinking about you you know and everything that you're doing and doing and going through currently uh you know the things that you have going on in your life I pray you know I'll I'll remember you in my thoughts on going and um until we get to meet each other in person and go hey I remember we did that together that was fun thank you I'll never forget this and you know my problems are high class problems compared to the problems I used to have so so thank you for that thank you this is gonna this made me feel a lot better I hope other people uh they get a little bit of inspiration after they see us to maniacs and what we've done with our life and uh and so that's why we're here we're here on this planet to help other people well thank you to ahmadine for bringing us together um United We heal we unite to heal and um and and Tom and I um have had a wonderful time so thank you so much and thank you Tom thank you for supporting this wonderful organization thank you thank you thank you and and uh give more okay good night good night [Music] thank you [Music] [Laughter] thank you foreign [Music] lamb uh we are here in support of uh mudim amudum's United to heal campaign I moved it was an amazing organization they provide a resource for anyone struggling with abuse neglect addiction or any other crisis events uh and this evening uh we want to talk not at pan out a little bit talk not just about a crisis afflicting a single Community uh but a potential crisis that afflicts uh two amazing American communities and given the importance of our communities and our respective Deep Roots and culture that has the potential to affect the entire American society so this evening we're going to talk about Black Americans and Jewish Americans how do we heal and uh I'm uh the president of social shop Studios uh CEO of benay Zion uh and the host of the good faith effort podcast and I'm here with one of the people I trust the most uh in the world in general and in particular on matters of faith on matters of leadership in America and as someone who has not just talked the talk but walked the walk in so many different facets of life he is the pastor of Greater Zion church family and the wonderful beautiful city of Compton he's a gospel artist he's an amazing voice for faith in America he's my friend Pastor Michael Fisher Pastor I'm so excited that you're here with me hey what's going on Rabbi Rabbi and the pastor back baby yeah man yeah I'm excited to be a part of it thank you for including me um you know you are a dear brother and friend of mine now um and I think this conversation is warranted I think the conversation is important and so I'm glad to be able to land whatever I can to it so bring your greetings from Compton California over here in the states uh you know where I love it we have to we help to shape the narrative all around the world exactly and speaking of uh speaking of cities with global influence I'm coming at you from Jerusalem today so it's uh this is a great this is a great bridge from Compton to Jerusalem that's like that should be the name of an album a book a show of something um so absolutely so before we get into the immediate kind of um Contra tems the Brewing crisis or whatever it is potential opportunity maybe whatever it is before we get into the specific uh the specific events that we can talk about the current events I want to kind of set the stage by maybe you and I reflecting a little bit on what it means to be a person of faith in America and why that means that we actually have a lot at stake in what happens in this country right so in my case um you know I grew up in a rabbinic family a family that um in my grandfather's case helped Steward American Judaism at a really crucial Point Rabbi Norman lamb of blessed memory uh and you're a father the late Reverend Jerome Fisher built the first African-American church in Compton which is an amazing Legacy I mean what unique perspective did that give you on life and politics whether in your own Community or in America at large so if you kind of used to set the stage for this conversation um well I would probably say that you know faith is the fabric of morality right um so when you have people that have faith in a higher being then that means that that is a person or a group of people that are subjecting themselves to a level of accountability which is so important because if we are given to accountability and another Authority then that kind of helps to keep us on track and how it is we're to treat our neighbors how it is we are to love one another how it is we are to serve one another um and how it is we're supposed to check our hearts our motives and then when we are wrong how we navigate to get back on the right track um so our country um right is built on faith principles and oftentimes I feel like when we get too far off to the left or the right um it's important that those that are part of the faith community that we are the barometer for the culture and that's what I watched my father do in the city of Compton being that Compton is known in Los Angeles as the Hub City um which means everything passes through there we connect all the cities we connect the seaports to the mountains to the beaches to the valleys and so I've watched my father use faith and um the church to be the intersection for all things whether it was Crisis within our local community or whether it was an issue that we needed to address on a larger level and so I think it's that need here again and and it's very important that Faith leaders are the ones that take the lead on helping our country these communities and other communities find that Medium bridge to Healing is I love that by the way because by the way I didn't I mean people should know I did not send you anything in advance you're just an incredibly brilliant person I see here's the thing every time we talk together I always just end up feeling so inadequate by the end of the conversation so I'm super excited for this again here you go oh my God so so Pastor when I love when you talk about first of all the idea of accountability of kind of using an external standard that we can use to hold ourselves responsible and the idea that the things that we do in our own communities don't just matter for us we actually both have a responsibility but also an opportunity and a privilege to be able to um help other communities and to be able to think about the long-term future of the Collective experiment that we're undertaking uh here in America at large and so with that as a frame how do you approach both the specific you know instance of like a Kanye West um you know saying what he said or Kyrie uh you know at least asking the kind of questions that he asks I don't think that Kyrie and Kanye are doing the same thing they're you know both bad I think but subtly different like how do you approach that both as a leader in a particular community and all also as kind of someone who's thinking about the larger context of the relationships between your community and my community the Jewish community and the larger American public like how do you what's your your entry ramp onto that conversation there's a scripture and for whatever reason it just slipped my mind exactly where it is but you I'll throw you the ball to Friday tell us where it is um of course it says God tells Israel right come and let it I said this before let us reason together that's where I believe the entry ramp is is that coming into this trying to see it from all sides and trying to figure out okay well where can we meet in the middle um according to the Christian faith one of the things that Jesus teaches us in the writings are blessed are the peacemakers right um blessed are those that try to find a resolve um I love some of the rabbinic um like uh philosophies where everyone gathers around and you all don't necessarily come to an agreement on all the scriptures and all the written texts but you do agree to find a way to live in the tension to live in the tension right until you can kind of come to a solid agreement and I think that that is our responsibility as religious leaders you know we are we are Advocates of the communities we come from and when we see that a community is hurting another community that we also care so dearly about and we've seen work together hand in hand in so many ways um we have to find a very wise way to walk that walk uh where you kind of say well I want to hear your perspective so that you'll give me entryway to share with you another perspective you know um and also talk to the other communities and saying hey this is how this is where maybe that came from and maybe there may be a part there where we can show them Grace um so that this doesn't just tear to pieces and pull out from up under us um all that our ancestors built for the two communities to work together so I think that that's that's you know that's that's my my goal um is to try to figure out how can we meet in the middle um so we can get an understanding obviously there's a misunderstanding right and all people don't know how to express themselves when they're when they're trying to convey a misunderstanding um so that's where I think our wisdom rabbis pastors uh we have to we have to try to help the communities um you know interpret no not interpreted but conveying what they're trying to convey in a way that doesn't tear apart the alliances it works so hard to bring together I love that I actually I almost want to use that as like an opportunity to kind of like go one after the other because I want to answer this question too but I have had so many opportunities over the last you know week or two to reflect on the state of the discourse over the content you know the current moment of anti-Semitism a whole context of racism and anti-Semitism I've had a lot of opportunities to reflect on the state of that conversation I keep thinking I don't feel that people in my community are are always articulating the the perspective on this the right way and and I kind of have this sense of like man if I could just get on the phone with somebody or if I could get on a zoom or if I could get in person with somebody in the media or with somebody in the black community here's what I would say right to help clarify things or put a new perspective on it so you must have I mean I want to assume but like you must have this thing where like hey if I could just sit and explain something to you it would actually help your understanding of the matter because you might not you might not know it because you're not an Insider to my community right so I have a version of that I'm curious if you do also like what's something that that you would want to help an outsider understand about Insiders um so from us you know especially when we start dealing with um The Narrative of you know I think I already said something like you know how can I be anti-semitic um when I know where I come from um for us I think why it's hard for everyone in the black community to see it from our fellow Jewish brothers and sisters point of view is because you're dealing with a people who their identity has been completely erased from every single significant cultural narrative in the world right um and that that's not a that's not a hypothetical statement that's a fact right whether you know you look around the world you don't see black people at the helm of most significant advancements uh um you know we're raised from The Narrative of being pharaohs in Egypt we're raised from The Narrative of what we've done with this country in America we're raised from The Narrative of even the Advent of the indigenous people all the way in Australia right and it's always replaced with a very white um perspective you know and so we know that for a lot of reasons and sometimes the things that are said are just said from the fact of you're dealing with people that just feel like they're always being erased from stories they are never been they're never included in any narrative at all and then when they are um it's always as if you know it's downplayed like the things that we added to the culture or to that Society um you know the society would have been fine with or without it and it's not not true you know we've added as a people so much to every culture every narrative every time frame you know in the advancement of people around the world really basically it's like black people are saying we just want our credit that's really what's being kind of said and so that would be a piece of Insider information I would love to pass to the world you know imagine how hurtful it is that when you look on the major screen even back in the day and you see you know the story of um the great Egyptian gods and goddesses and the Pharaohs you see and Elizabeth Taylor right exactly why do we have Elizabeth Taylor you know representing Egypt you just can't seem to make that right and so there was a time when we was so oppressed we couldn't speak our minds about it um now you have a generation that is saying to themselves and that's where this whole woke thing is and I see uh sometimes our fellow Americans demonizing that term well it came from this standpoint of there's an Awakening happening because now we can Google we can read we can research things that hundreds of years ago our ancestors were not allowed to do and so the more knowledge we gain there's this Awakening of a sense of who we are and where we are placed in society and in in comparison to actually the contributions we've made and it doesn't match up the math is not mapping right so a lot of times that's where uh this is coming from it's really just a hard culture of people that just are trying to say hey we've been there too and we're tired of being erased it's so powerful and I actually it's such a good transition to what I would want to share in turn um with your community because I think in many ways the insights parallel each other and show that there's actually potential for for partnership and friendship that can grow out of this if we play it right and that is first of all it's a very wise friend of mine actually did a whole thread about this on Twitter Ellie Fisher so I want to give him a shout um he made a really important point which is that when folks in my community talk about like the Black Hebrew Israelite narrative right the idea that the idea that um black people going back to Africa have Jewish roots or were Jewish part of a lost tribe Etc there are two different claims that you can make one of them I think is one of them I think is pernicious and I want to explain why and from an Insider perspective something that people outside might not appreciate but the other version of the claim I think is actually not only tolerable it's actually can lead to very wonderful things and I I want to explain that as well the the pernicious version of it and and here I want to explain a little bit why you know in the in the Jewish Community just sets off such alarm bells that seem in commensurate to the gravity of the claim it seems like you guys are getting so worked up over nothing the pernicious version of the claim is we are the real Jews meaning you contemporary Jews are not real Jews like we're the original Jews you're not Jews right and that strikes alarm Bells because of something called replacement theology which I I'm sure you're familiar with but a lot of the listeners both Jewish and non-jewish won't be familiar with which is an idea that goes all the way back to the second century like the early decades uh of the Common Era so like you know the 100s which is as um as Christianity grows into uh into a phenomenon that has its own self-identity as opposed to you know just being an offshoot of you know or a version of Judy or like a take on Judaism as it grows into its own phenomenon you have writers like Justin Martyr like irenaeus eventually like uh to tertullian Augustine Jerome some of the great Lions of the you know among the church fathers who put forth the idea that the people of Israel are actually rejected by God he's cast them aside they have no more role in history and all of the promises of the Bible that refer to the people of Israel are actually have actually been stripped from them and now they refer to the only true Israel which is the church now again I'm not here to judge anybody's theology like if that's your theology that's your theology and it has its own internal coherence I'm not here to judge it obviously but that idea uh has had really dire consequences for actual Jewish people like we've meaning the roots of so many grams riots persecutions centuries upon centuries of history that most people don't know which is just you know like you have Augustine who was the good guy like Jerome thought that we should just kill all the Jews because they deserve it Augustine comes along and says you don't have to kill them it's enough for them to just be downtrodden for the rest of History if we keep them downtrodden they'll be witnesses to the triumph of of Ecclesia of the church right so this idea is at such dire consequences for the Jewish community and it's metastasized at really critical points in Jewish history and world history like during the Holocaust and during some of the massacres in the Middle Ages in and has resulted in just Untold Jewish deaths so anytime someone talks about about being the real version of us and where the fake version we start to think I think understandably replacement Theology and then we get really afraid and that leads me to one other point that I want to make on that which is people like I just had a baby five months ago super excited um friends of mine who are thank you friends of mine who aren't Jewish like make fun of us because we got this kid to pass for it like the first second that we could like an international passport and we did that for all of our kids and everybody I know in the Jewish Community certainly in like the traditional like in the Orthodox Jewish Community we all get our kids passports like that International passports why it's not because we're a neurotic Woody Allen types it's because we've all had it beaten into us and and not literally but ingrained into our psyche by our parents by our grandparents by our teachers that we all have to be prepared to run like if things get bad here we need to be able to run the Jews of Nazi Germany made the mistake of not running and we've been thrown out of every country we've been chased at every place we have to actually be prepared to go to the airport like I know I have friends I don't have to personally do this but I definitely have friends who actually have a suitcase packed under their bed at all times just in case we need a run in the middle of the night and I don't think people process like the fear in our community but what so that's like the pernicious version of the of the claim you know that that someone else is replacing us and no amount of empathy will get us past that fear however and this is what what my friend Ellie Fisher pointed out the idea of saying of of looking for jewishness in your background in the background of the black community in particular actually is a really powerful or can be a really powerful thing first of all for all the reasons that you said which is it's it's actually meaning you should expect something like this for a community that's had so much torn away from it forcibly erased from it it's something to be expected but also it's it has led to actual positive things like just to use a really prominent example that everyone in my community will know Amari stodemeyer amazing NBA player Nick Legend within the context of everything since the 90s right but but we love him our son and Amare actually who believes in this narrative um he actually ended up converting to Judy's no we're not a proselytizing religion we're not going out and trying to make converts but Amari embraced Judaism Orthodox Judaism and has become like universally beloved within our community like we love Amari and he's he's studying and he's actually becoming quite learned it's an amazing thing to see and it all came from this like deep curiosity of trying to find faith and jewishness in your past in a way that actually is really wonderful and so I guess what I'd say is you know if I could sum it up would I would I wish people outside our community understood was the thing that makes us afraid is the replacement narrative because we know what that leads to and we're we're so afraid of it that we're literally ready to run and at the same time and this transition I think will transition to the next question when I ask you I wish you know I wish there was more pause in the conversation on the part of my community and I think you're starting to see it among some of the right people to say hey here's why someone would be attracted to a black Israelite narrative not a replacement version but uh hey here's what's in our past version like trying to recover Origins here's why someone would be attracted to it and here's why it actually is a positive thing and something that we should wanna Embrace like curiosity and and a sense of History like something we should want to embrace but that gets me to the next question that I would love for us both to tackle also which is what's something that you would want to say to your community as like hey and I want to do this to my community also like what's something that you would want to say to your community like hey here's something that we could actually do different than what we're doing now that would help things before I jump to that I would just say that you know that concept of the replacement theology is the exact same fear of the black community um I like that can you unpack that that's great yeah well if what I just said before you know you talked is that you all are are afraid of being replaced we've already been replaced you know I mean when they came and took us from our continent and from our land and they brought us over here they erased us they they read us from our native language our native native tongue um our names they ripped children from families it was barbaric it was it was an atrocity um and then they replaced all of it with you know their their version of what Jesus looked like and again what the Pharaohs look like you know so for us we've already been replaced you're like in a post replacement world oh man so and the reason why that's important to say is because I think that the Jewish Community I think can take solace than the fact that I don't think everyone now I can't speak for everyone just like you can't speak for everyone um I think though from the people that I talk with and from some of the folks that think like I do it's not about replacing the astronomy Jews it's not about replacing you know saying oh we are the only ones and not me first of all I I don't know I don't know if I'm Jewish or not so let me just say that for the people that are watching you know so when I say we I'm just talking on behalf of of of my fellow uh African-American brothers and sisters but we are not trying to replace um I think it's more or less I think which they're trying to get the narrative to say and and it's it's it's it's the um the Jews that we the Contemporary Jews that we see and there are tribes that are um of dark skin that are also you know possibly linked to to uh the same Birthright privilege and when all the Jews had to scatter and leave everyone didn't go up north everyone didn't flee to to the regions of of Poland and Russian that there are some that you know fled towards you know Ethiopia or they fled to West Africa or they fled to the southern regions of Africa and it could be possible that some of them also now have come home and it's and I think I think that's what they're they're looking for it's not a replacement now there are some and let me say this let me speak against this there are some that are operating in the replacement Theology and anyone with good sense does not stand with that there are some that want to downplay the horrific events of the Holocaust and anyone that thinks that what happened during the Holocaust was not horrific or that in some strange way the Jewish people would create that only for it to kill and destroy their own people their own Community is delusional and and crazy so I I just I just wanted to say that you know um what happened in the Holocaust horrible uh is it should be forever damned and shamed um so let me say that but there's there is a group unfortunately that is spreading those messages and I want to say this majority of the black community does not stand with that period now next page but there is a sense of wanting to reclaim like I said at the beginning our place in the Jewish narrative as well where we look at the origins being the land of you know the Mesopotamian land and you know the Northern Africa and Egypt and we're present you know Iraq is and you know the Middle East and all of that you know we know that for a fact that when we deal with maybe the descendants of Noah you know or Abraham yeah it could be a possibility that they were of a darker Hue if you will and I think that what the black community is saying is that is it possible to just get an and in there that yes you know we are the original Jews and I'm pretty sure we have some brothers and sisters that are also a part of that Birthright that their skin color is a little darker than ours that's a whole different conversation um and I think that that conversation unfortunately is being overshadowed by the squeaky wheel you know that is pushing this more dangerous narrative that you guys unfortunately are hearing in the mainstream is not just trying to answer a question right now what does the client say they want right now I'm with them understands that whoever's calling them is dealing with something and is dealing with having to make very very difficult decisions and the mudum is always there and available to articulate what the right decision is to walk you through the right decision to make you feel that you're comfortable to make you feel that you're safe I believe that Claud Israel who wants to continue to exist forever and ever is has to deal with certain issues they're facing and that's going to restore life and Sanity into cloudy soul and I think it's the year and wants to be there past present and future to be able to be there to save those lives and give people that life of not only life or death but that life to walk around as actually a living human therefore I would recommend to anybody who wants to feel fulfilled who wants to feel that they're part of something bigger they want to feel that they're part of the Rebellion that they're helping to rebound's children I would say to get connected time with them contribute if that's if that's your connection if that's what you could give if that's what Hashem gave you to be able to do this is a worthy course to be part of you want to be part of something that's Godly foreign to speak to to my community um I think that it would be wise that we would allow those that are um not divisive to be the voice voices that are heard on our behalf I think that's very important um I think I can say very straightforward that all conversations about the Holocaust should be off the table period that was a horrific event that happened and we out of all people who lost so many of our ancestors in the transatlantic slave trade uh you know we should know you know how that feels for someone to downplay how horrible slavery was because we hear it even to this day you know when we hear just second generation people who their Grandma were slave owners telling us that we should be grateful because the slave owners took good care of us while they were oh and that's like a legit that's like a narrative that's out there I know so I'm saying that there therefore no one from the black community if we know how hurtful that is when we hear it about what happened with us with slavery knowing from the black community should ever stand by anyone that is downplaying um the Holocaust narrative and so I think that those are just two things that we could work on not allowing people that are divisive to be our our voices and never standing with anyone that is going to downplay one of the most horrific events that happen in our in our human history alongside with what happened to our own people during slave trade and then lastly I think more meaningful conversations like this where we come in ready to live in attention and be humble enough to walk away from the conversation and chew on the thoughts that were brought up in the conversation you know and to wrestle with it and into eventually we can find a common ground I love that and and in turn I think what I would want to say I've been like dying for a venue to say this what I would want to say to Mike what I would want to say to my community is I hate I really really hates a strong word I I really find a lot lacking in the way that that organizations like the ADL have dealt with this particular matter particularly Kyrie Kanye may be a separate issue and I want to get to that in a second but I think the role of the ADL is playing in Kyrie and particularly the way in which they kind of have been like anointed as like the Jewish popes who get to represent the whole community and dealing with this with this matter is maybe not intentionally awful but it's awful and I want to articulate why they you know listen there are a lot of different opinions about the ADL within the Jewish Community because you know that mostly have to do with politics I'm not here to adjudicate that um the ADL if you just assume that its role is to combat anti-Semitism and let's just assume for the sake of argument that that's all that they're doing which may not always be the case but that's what they're doing so that's great it's important to fight anti-Semitism you know the Holocaust is within living memory they're they're there are still something like 115 maybe more they're actually I think 190 000 Holocaust survivors still alive just in the state of Israel um so the worst event in the history of anti-Semitism since like the destruction of the second temple is within living memory so it's important to fight anti-semitism the problem becomes when that's the only voice that any mainstream American hears and in particular when the people who are Prosecuting that fight are themselves just not more not less but just expert just experts in anti-Semitism like it's not like the people Prosecuting the fight against anti-Semitism or the great sages of the Jewish tradition or are our you know our greatest rabbis and Scholars and intellectuals and people who've spent their lives dedicated to the study of our tradition and are representing all of that along with the fight against anti-Semitism it's mostly people whose only job it is and whose only qualification is fighting anti-Semitism now again I'm glad those people exist but when when that's the only voice that most mainstream Americans hear what it seems like and you know you could be forgiven for thinking that jewishness has no content at all but the fight against anti-semitism and that makes us look like a deeply intellectually spiritually morally impoverished Community because it makes it seem like we don't stand for anything other than fighting Prejudice and in fact if you asked many you know many Jews who are in one way or another not super connected to their Church like what does Judaism mean to you often the answer you'll hear is it means the fight against Injustice like okay great like Injustice is bad like I'm also anti-cancer great thanks for the brave stance but Judaism is about and jewishness is so it's such a rich tradition it's one of the richest intellectual Traditions to emerge from the ancient world we are the stewards of of an incredible 3 000 year history of wisdom and values and ethics to reduce the whole thing to just don't hate us is a catastrophe it's a catastrophe and it's a product of and this is the first time in the history of the Jewish people that we've ever presented ourselves this way to most people now this is also a great time to be a Jew because you're much less likely to be killed for being Jewish today in 2022 which is great I'm super grateful to every person and particularly to God who made that happen however this is also and this is you know not not all good things have to go together there can be bad things that go along with good things one of the bad things about this time in history is that it's the first time in history really since you know maybe if you include the enlightenment a little the Jewish enlightenments a little bit but it's the first time in history where you can identify as a Jew but literally do nothing else to invest in your jewishness and that is considered not only a an acceptable way of living in some cases that's lionized as a way of life and the tragedy that that introduces is that therefore if all you're if all you do is identify as a Jew and you invest nothing else in your peoplehood and your tradition and your intellectual content and substantive values then the only way that anyone outside your community can ever interact with your jewishness the only way you're jewishness can be activated so to speak is if somebody hates you because that's the only time since the only thing you do is I'm I identify as a Jew there's no way to interact with it at all you can't ask any questions about it you can't engage with it you can't ask about traditions and values and practice and worldview the only thing you can do to activate it is to hate it and so the only time that many many Jews are ever speaking jewishly is fighting anti-Semitism so the the sad Calamity that this is introduced is that many many Outsiders and I think particularly it's particularly true for a community like your community which as you said earlier has a really robust culture and is so invested in identity especially in this generation and like recovering identity and exploring identity and Excavating identity it can seem weird to interact with a community that seems like the only thing it wants is for you to not hate it like we don't have anything to offer back and and like what that produces for my community and I think this is bad is if if our only tool like fighting anti-Semitism has to be a tool in our toolkit we won't survive otherwise but if that's the only tool in our toolkit then the only thing that we know how to do is punish people for being anti-semitic now sometimes people do need to be punished for being anti-semitic this is that we're recording this on the evening of Crystal knocked right so Germany on the eve of the Holocaust could have used some International punishment and it didn't get it and it was a disaster however when I look at a like a Kyrie Irving and we talk about that question of like as you put it the yes and right There's an opportunity here like Kyrie did not at least I personally think Kyrie did not speak about this in a in a unifying way I think he spoke about it more in a divisive way to speak to your points earlier but that said if you ask me what do the Jewish people actually stand for it's not fighting anti-Semitism that's something we have to do as a tactic what do we actually stand for we're teachers we've always done that like we're people who study we're people who love to teach we love to learn we love to interact we love to engage with others in learning we never learn by ourselves we always study in pairs and in groups and this was an opportunity for this could still be an opportunity for us to to see the yes and uh moment here like like it worked for an Amari sodomier or like it works for someone you know who's coming from a very different side of this what works for someone like you right who's so who's so curious and who and who's so broad-minded and expert in these matters this is an opportunity for us to say okay let's do some learning together right like let's do some study together we'll both learn things from that experience but like instead of saying hey Kyrie okay your punishment is you have to give a jillion dollars to the ADL for their next benefit and you have to visit a holocaust museum which again people should know about the Holocaust for sure but as the great com you know the Jewish community and Modi said like sending people to a holocaust museum as a punishment for anti-Semitism just giving people ideas right so like and again it's like it's not that's not a substantive response that's like I just don't hate us response the response could have been and I know for many people in in the traditional Orthodox community both privately expressed in WhatsApp groups publicly expressed on Twitter and Instagram and you know the kind of thing that we talk about around the Shabbos table when we get together in private is man like if someone had asked me what should Kyrie do it would be like oh my God come to my house for Shabbos like we'll study together the whole time like you won't want to leave like you'll be so excited to come here and we'll and we'll learn from you you'll learn from us and it'll be amazing right or like can't you know like come over to our study house and see how rich it is and you and you'll teach us something and we'll teach you something and we'll all grow from The Experience again would that have worked with Kyrie the individual I don't know I can't look into a person's heart only God can do that I think I think it would I think it definitely would have you know you you think the things that you said are are really meaty if you will and I'll tell you why you know there was a story my father said that there was a little boy um that he went to school with and everybody would pick on him by like flicking the back of his head um every morning one day um in his first he had finally my dad had finally kind of started hanging around the cool kids and they all flicked the boy and eventually my dad trying to prove that he was just as cool because he was glad to finally be a part flicked the back of the boy's head the boy turns around and looked at him and began to cry and my father said he looked at him like well what everybody has done this to you and he turned around and said but we used to be friends I never thought she would and the reason why I'm saying that story is because in the Jewish community in the black community when you talk about how the Jewish Community especially those that are of influence take such a hard stance against anti-Semitism the thing in the black community is we're also we also take stanzas against injustices but it's for everyone we don't just get loud when it's happening to us we've stood with the Jews when they blew up the synagogues we've stood you know with in the lgbtq community when they begin to have hate crimes against the trans Community even if some people were conflicted with you know what they felt about the trans Community we really believe that it Injustice to anyone is an injustice to everyone and I think that when you do say things like you know for the first time ever um it's a great time to be of the Jewish Community because you can be year to do and not be easily killed in comparison to it's 100 years later and black people are still being hung from trees and we're still being murdered in the streets and people are still like um a written house are now Superstars because of what they what they do um we're sitting here looking at our friends who we at one time were equally hated if you will outwardly we're looking at one of our friends seemed to kind of come into a space of influence and then they're turning around and they're using the same tactics that they know that our oppressors used against us um our thing with how Kyrie is being treated um is that we are always a fair people and those on the outside would not know that unless they are really raised in the black community the black community is taught to be a fair people which means we can take the discipline as long as you promise the discipline everyone the same um so you know we would like to see that when they begin to speak again and the slavery that happened to our people when people were publicly openly saying things that were anti-black um that it should have been the same open remarks the same the test right that was shared um with the anti-semitic moments we would love to see our Jewish brothers and sisters with the same energy to test and come against the anti-black moments that happen because we all were in this same fight at one time and most of the people in our community are looking at the demands that are placed on Kyrie and they're saying well that seems to be a tactic you know it's like you know he's publicly being like you know we're going to teach y'all a lesson like this is what happens if you do anything that's anti-semitic um but a lot of us are actually saying okay but where's that same energy with everything else that happens to us and if we saw that same energy that was going to protect our blackness trust and believe we have the people and we saw that they were being anti-semitic we would stand with that and say well you have nobody was saying that now you should have never did that because we are fair people and a lot of people from the outside don't know our principles they don't know how we're taught them we're raised and I think that that element I mean it's very strong of you to say some of the things that you said uh Rabbi so I'm praying for you um but it's very true that um if the only time we see the Jewish Community is when they are defending um you know against anti-Semitism um then yeah it does minimize um really how powerful how great how wise well-rounded and culture that Community really is so I I think it would be helpful if the voices that came forth from the Jewish Community would be the voices of let's sit down and talk because that's what they did with Nick Cannon if you remember when when the Canon at his moment instead of immediately saying you know they started running the list of all the things he needed to do rabbis from around the city of Los Angeles immediately reached out to him and said let's sit down let's talk and let's find a a reason let's learn from each other and that was a way better outcome um than what we're seeing how things are being handled with with Kyrie so so if I can and I know we're like run out of time but if I can as usual I know right this is like always our problem I want to offer one pushback and then one like and I think like hopefully a constructive type of solution like here's what we could do my pushback would be in the Jewish Community we often feel like it's sort of like a heads you win heads I win tails you lose scenario where if we say nothing then anti-Semitism goes unchecked because it's not unsexy to say bad things about you know to say bad things about Jews right like we're not we're not one of those groups that it's like that it's like uncool to say bad things about us it may be like you know it may be sanctioned but you know the kind of stuff you know you could print a whole you know Front Page New York Times story about how our you know Orthodox religious schools are bad when literally every school that you compare it to is as bad or Worse um you could accuse us of being like vectors of disease during covid which was not true like all that kind of stuff and so we kind of I think the feeling is look if we say nothing this will just keep going unchecked because no one's standing up for us but us and if we do say something then it confirms The Conspiracy Theory Theory like see like the Jews are are being so powerful and trying to shut us down so we often feel caught in a bind and I think when we see particularly a Kanye for example like a Kanye is not questioning Right akairi is coming from a place of question and I think the mistake was conflating those two things but and I think because they came so quick one after the other no one paused to think but like when we see a Kanye speaking up and saying just like truly demented things about the Jewish people and we feel like we're the only ones um pushing and yelling and screaming and we had to claw to get anyone to say anything back to him we kind of felt like man if we don't if we don't say anything No One's Gonna have our back right so we have to and that gets you into the tribalism zone of because then it becomes a vicious cycle right because then then the other community will feel like well if they're going to look out for themselves we have to look out for ourselves and then it just gets worse and worse and worse so I that would be my pushback but I think it also leads to a constructive solution which is the biggest problem like when I hear what you're saying and I and I hear what I'm saying this is the kind of conversation that happens when the only time that two communities talk is when we've insulted each other right exactly that's the biggest problem so we're Nev like even if you go back to like the classic example of like Jews Like Jewish people and black people working together is like the Civil Rights era which was great don't get me wrong it was awesome but even then that wasn't a positive project that was like the negative project also important of securing rights right or fighting against Prejudice but when was the last time arguably never in the history of this country that our two communities have actually worked on something positive together like a positive Prodigy that didn't have to do with people hating us the opportunities are so broad where the where the the two most faithful communities that are also minority communities uh in this country we are two communities that have known a history of Oppression but also have a really strong intellectual tradition nevertheless um or or even in spite of the darkness we are two communities that have contributed a tremendous amount to culture whether it's Arts entertainment literature film TV go down the line like there's and and we both look to to the Bible and specifically the Hebrew Bible as a North star not just spiritually but in terms of political philosophy and in terms of historical narrative so there is such fertile ground for us to work on productive projects together and creative projects together that would to use a metaphor from a teacher of mine when he was advising like you know young guys about to go into the Revenant like how do you deal with like balancing family responsibilities versus the needs of your congregation and he always used to say you got to put money in the bank like when it's time for a crisis and you have to make that decision family congregation it's already too late what you have to do is before the crisis spend as much time as you can with your kids whenever you can spend as much time with your spouse whenever you can do those fun family things because that way when the crisis comes if if you could choose your family great but if you have to choose the congregation you already have that money in the bank so they know that there's a love and and closeness there I think that's what our communities need like we just we can complain about each other all we want at the end of the day we need money in each other's bank right we need to put money in the bank and the only way to get that money in the bank like we definitely can do a better job of standing up for each other and we definitely can do a better job of taking responsibility for our own actions for sure but those are all and those are like threshold things but they're also negative projects right like it's insufficient what we also need to do is just work together on things that don't have anything to do with hatred and Prejudice and bigotry so that we know when a crisis strikes we have all of these deep roots in each other's souls and creative psyche like does that does that make sense that does that resonate yeah yeah it goes back to how it opened up when I said I think our job as religious leaders such as yourself and and myself is to Foster those necessary conversations to come together and reason together you know that's how we open is a perfect way to end it right and to sit down and get to know one another's perspective and hopefully walk and not coming to the room ready to to disprove the other party to come into the room open to say well they may have a point that I've never seen and walk away from that saying oh I could see how they got to that conclusion oh I could see how it is that they were offended by that oh I can see how it can look like you know we're you know uh leaving them out there hanging if you will for example when it's when I hear you say you know no one is standing up for the Jewish Community the the problem oftentimes is is that in the black community um and we know this also to be a fact in um in America is our voice is oftentimes suppressed it is really suppressed so unfortunately when things are happening against the Jewish Community you have leaders that are crying out against it but they don't get any air time they they don't they don't cover us and the reason why is because there is so much more to gain by having the two communities pitted against each other you know taking our eyes off of the greater the greater picture um so no one covers the leaders when they say that's horrible you know what happens in the synagogues when they were blown up or you know the uh the I never know how to pronounce the the the the Nazi symbol that they draw on this one you know yeah yeah you know what I mean we cry we speak out against that but you all will never know it because our voice oftentimes is not magnified in those moments and but but when we have conversations like this you leave saying like oh no it's not just us crying out no they're with us no they too disagree with some of the things that are being said and so I think it is by the way is important as we move forward from this that all leaders who whoever's watching this from my community from your community that we continue to advocate for the conversations again not to disprove one another but to be open-minded and see where one another is coming from and then we can walk away with a better understanding of both cultures and we can live in that middle ground amen Pastor man see you always you always get rocking right at the end that was amazing I love it it is it is it is so beautiful to speak to you it is it is such a highlight of any week that I'm in when I get to when I get to hang out with you so really looking forward to this with you man thank you yeah I love it this is I'm looking forward to this being the first of many such conversations yeah yes no absolutely man you know we uh I think we're showing it right I think we're showing it and it can be done I tell people all the time and this is where I'll be done I tell people all the time that when you look at the Great Pyramids as Majestic as they are and they are Majestic they're really just little grains of sand compressed upon one another and so we oftentimes Overlook things that are little and small such as these conversations but we can be that grain of sand and if we all do it it can press together we can make very very beautiful pyramids that can change the world so everyone that's out there have those conversations over lunch have a conversation at work have the conversation amongst your friends and um [Laughter] there it is there it is hey man listen last last word is please uh We've we've been able to do all this in support of an amazing cause ahmudim unite to heal resources for anyone struggling with abuse with neglect with addiction uh with any crisis event I moved them is here for you support uh support the unite to heal campaign and support I moved him we love you guys yeah we love you [Music] I would say that a mudim is vital to the mental health of the entire Jewish Community I know it sounds like a really like a grand statement but the fact is that you know I get phone calls all the time you know people need all different types of help that are not necessarily what we deal with and you know the answer could almost always just be call a modem and they're going to help you amudim is like The Missing Link the key to a lot of the gaps in the services that are being offered in the Jewish Community there are a lot of amazing organizations out there doing a lot of amazing work and they're all kind of all over the place I moved him kind of centralizes all them and is a tremendous resource that gives people that are struggling with almost anything access to a resource and they will point in the right direction to be able to really support you to get to the kind of help that you need and if you want to be somebody who's involved with that and if that's something that's important to you then this is a place where you should be supporting thank you [Music] thank you [Music] thank you hello welcome everybody thank you so much to our three rabbis who we respect so much for being here today Rabbi Simon Jacobson Rabbi Manis Friedman and Rabbi Chase Taub thank you to amodim for bringing us here today to do this panel and thank you to my podcast partner Eda Schottenstein for doing this together with me we have three rabbis here today um and we may have three opinions but you can have two opinions and the third element is the is the part that's Infinity that's the part that understands that both can be right and so we'll see who who the infinity is here today but what we want to bring to the table is infinity that everyone here who is sitting here and listening to the podcast can tap into Infinity into our Essence and really come to a place of hearing different perspectives and also understanding that all perspectives can be truth welcome and we'd actually like to address the first question to Rabbi Chase tab we had you on our podcast to discuss parenting our first question we really wanted to ask you about is um trauma because first of all amudim is has a is a lot about uh dealing with trauma and um essentially once we address our own traumas we are better suited to raise healthy families and live healthier lives and Ian and I feel that we are lucky to live in a time when it has become more mainstream to become vulnerable and address traumas but then at the same time there is a conflicting notion of stop talking about traumas already because we get stuck in our own traumas and we want to know how do we address trauma in a way that doesn't involve blaming and alienating our loved ones and destroying families but yet being able to address it in a healthy way we where we can grow as human beings before I start I just want to make a disclaimer that the trauma is a clinical term and when I'm speaking I'm speaking as a rabbi those are my only qualification is I'm a rabbi I I want to be careful that no one misunderstands that I'm trying to overstep my boundaries and make any statements that have clinical uh implications because that's I'm not a mental health professional I don't have that training and so I just want to be very careful everyone understands um staying in my Lane so maybe I won't even use the word trauma I'll just I'll use a I'll use a maybe a longer term which is stuff happens to people that affects them a lot of times this happens during childhood a lot of times it happens either with family or around family and I guess what you're asked I think what you're asking is um how much did our parents really ruin our lives right that's basically okay and and and the reality is nobody emerges from childhood unscathed we all get a little bit damaged that's the reality some more some less but your question was more about like what to do with that reality in a way I'm going to rephrase your question because in a way that honors the fact that people have been hurt as children and at the same time that doesn't turn that into a life script where oh because of this now I'm I I'm incapable of of living the life I would have lived had that thing never happened to me yeah basically did I get the question yes you did thank God okay so I said I'm answering as a rabbi and this is a very Rabbi answer and that is the only way to really to my thinking to really properly process this truth and honor this truth but yet to move on from it is through faith in God is to look at your life as written by the Divine author nothing happened to you that wasn't under his domain and his loving wisdom and and care and even though a lot of it can even be horrific and from our perspective we can't process it and we're not justifying it and we're not excusing it then all of the standard disclaimers but for the person himself or herself I think it's very very important to realize your parents didn't mess you up whatever life you had whatever childhood you had whatever experiences you had that was your journey some of it was hurtful some of it caused some breakage which you have to heal from but ultimately my life is not some imagined ideal life that could have happened should have happened if such and such would have never occurred that's that's not reality your life your perfect Story You're Perfectly Imperfect story is whatever happened with all the the good the bad the ugly and everything else so I really believe that the healthy way to start to process this stuff is for each person to sort of embrace the godliness of their own personal story to use the real technical Hasidic term uh that Hashem is specifically engineering and orchestrated the details of our lives and when you can start to see the the Divine authorship I think you can honor the reality of what happened but also become become strengthened by it rather than defined by it yeah that that speaks to me that speaks to me yes does it speak to you Rita it does embracing a reality and we also wanted um Rabbi Friedman to elaborate because we've got many messages after the episode about this particular thing that you had shared was that in a nutshell if someone is going to the down the hopper and they feel unsure then they should probably call it off because call of thing uh going calling off the engagement because usually that kind of scenario leads to a difficult or a um a lot of trying times in the relationship so my thought was first of all it was refreshing to hear that for somebody who should really call off the engagement but at the same time there are many people who will go out and date and they're always going to be on Shore no matter who they marry and there are also some people that you'll hear them say that they went down to the hopper and Shore and then they they became very happy they have a very happy relationship so how does one know how was how does one how does one use that motivation and dedication in the right way to know that they're marrying the right person if perhaps they are unsure well first of all there's unsure and there's unsure are you unsure about marriage or are you unsure about your spouse if you're unsure about marriage you'll get over it you'll settle down and you'll be fine but if there's something about your spouse that you're unsure of this is going to be trouble well I guess the question is what is it that you're unsure about maybe that's what it is but sometimes you can be unsure about something and you evolve and you don't really know yourself what you want but this is the process I mean it could happen right the process of getting married the process of dating is eliminating all problems and obstacles it's a process of elimination it's not falling in love it's not becoming impressed it's removing or discovering that you have no obstacles there's nothing going to get between you because everything's good but I just can I pause right there in life there are many obstacles after you're married yes but when you're getting married you should see no obstacles anyone who walks under the thinking well I'll have to handle or I have to tolerate not a good idea and don't wait until you're until you're under the hook that's the point of going out the point of dating is to make sure that there's nothing about the other person that disturbs me and what about if the person doesn't see oh I'll have to handle this or but it's more like I don't feel that spark that I want to feel that that's negotiable could be you're too nervous to feel the spark you're not close enough you're still a little awkward with each other in other words it's not what you do have that is important it's what you don't you don't you're not uncomfortable with each other's presence you're not uncomfortable with each other's thinking you're not uncomfortable with each other's looks there's nothing making me uncomfortable does this need to be like an ongoing thing meaning there's this whole notion of don't make a permanent decision based on a temporary emotion so let's say one day you know someone's feeling like this is the right this is my Bashar and then on another day they are having doubts but then they kind they're kind of wishy-washy um does the same rule apply once you're married before before yeah once you're married yeah there should be no doubts before none not even when you haven't had coffee yet and you're not having a good day and you're okay do you um Rabbi tab a rabbi we'll start with Rabbi Jacobson do you um do you feel the same way not necessarily um because what happens if it's a trivial thing you know uh he went on the first date and you liked everything about or the second date but the way when she smiles there's a certain twitch and then when you walk into the group you suddenly remember that twitch I'm not sure if Rabbi Friedman would say okay call her off would you absolutely that's what I knew it I knew it so finally we've disagree it may be a little too late but that shouldn't have happened see yeah you had said on the podcast if you don't like a freckle don't you said if you don't like the other person's freckles don't marry me [Laughter] person says there's something that bothers me about him but it's so trivial I'm embarrassed well don't be embarrassed you're trivial trivial things bother you because you're trivial yeah but that person can grow out of they can maybe or it'll bother you more once you're married and stuck look at this I don't know if this is the place to debate the issue I'm sure there's a lot more to be said because the fact is that the river for example was very opposed to people breaking engagements even though hola quickly and technically it's not as bad as divorce but this so we have to discuss why you know why is that did the rapper ever write why my understanding I don't remember if I saw exact reason was because in a way it's like you've given your word so it's not a complication to stay engaged but if you start breaking your words it's a very uh disturbs the whole element of trust and stuff like that and of course the rabbit didn't want to have also a situation where where people just okay you know what we were engaged and tomorrow we're not um but I think it comes down to Case by case I don't think you can um I mean I I I know Robbie Freeman quite well I don't think he's stating a blanket statement everything you have to know what you're discussing are you stating a blanket statement what I'm saying is don't let it get to that I'm not saying when to break off an engagement or a marriage avoid that if you know what you're looking for you know what you who you are it won't come to that why did you get engaged if this bothers you by the way you said if you know who you are and often I mean you even shared it on a podcast that you've said it's a healthy thing to get married young like you highly recommend that now when you're really young you don't necessarily Know Who You Are actually you don't really know who you are you truth is you only really know get to know who you are once you're married and you're sharing a life with somebody so how are you meant to know maybe that's not young enough that's why because you're too old yeah yeah exactly you know yourself at the time of course you're gonna grow you're gonna mature but you gotta know where you're standing now the question I would pose is what do you do with all the people who don't know and sometimes their priorities are off even in the dating process let's not even talk about going to the Hub in the dating process what they think is important is not really that important and other things are so very often the things that are bothering them shouldn't even bother them but they are bothering them right so what if the conflict is you know Rabbi Friedman you had mentioned it doesn't have to be good for you it just has to be you um in a in when we had spoken about this and so how do you balance let's say a person does know this person is for them but their parents are against it and the parents are saying No this person is not for you um is that considered a grounds for breaking it off because that's an obstacle like the parent not being okay with it that's a whole nother subject but yeah is that an option she said someone's walking to the hub and they remind themselves that their mother right do not like the cow he's not coming to the wedding she's at the wedding but she's not so happy well they want to marry this person but the parent is very you have to choose you're marrying your mother or your uh bride right right right right right well here the dead cleave to your wife instruction was parents should not get in the way of a couple that who already decided to get married you can give advice during the process but if they decided they want to marry each other stay out of the way well this was actually one of our questions in the today's generation children have have more free reign we we you know we have a different approach today we were here to fulfill our children's needs I mean that's one of the approaches and that um we sh we've got to be more understanding of the of them it's their story not ours Rabbi halfordshire that like this is not our story this is their story at the same time don't you think sometimes we need some Vora to be you know we have to have the hasid but sometimes we need some discipline to be and and to share with our children this might not be right for you what you're doing whether it's marriage or whether it's something else and how do we go about that parents should offer their opinion children should seriously consider their parents opinion before they come to the decision once they've made the decision they want to marry each other you can't you can't toy with that dangerous in general Rabbi tab giving what do you feel about parents giving opinions to children in general yeah in general ah in general I could make it even more General than parenting I could make it I could make it about life okay yeah in general and say it's probably not going to be effective to give unsolicited advice ever so here's the trick if you have an opinion that you think might be useful for somebody to hear the whole trick is to get them interested in coming to you and asking for your for your opinion so to me it's not so much about well how should you give your opinion to your child or to anyone for that matter it could be to your husband could be a husband it could be a friend your neighbor it's about how do I establish a rapport context within which this person is going to seek out and actually be interested in what I have to say so most of the work of getting our children to actually hear our advice and consider our advice is about building the relationship if your child feels bonded to you if they trust you if they respect you if you spend time with them it's almost automatic meaning I don't like to use the word effortless because then people feel guilty and they feel like if they judge themselves and it should be completely uh without any deliberate effort but almost effortless I'll say almost it's just natural it's a natural thing when when a parent is bonded to a child the child is bonded to a parent it's a natural thing parent is more experienced the parent has been given a job by God to parent the child it's a natural thing the parent is sharing wisdom the child is listening to it but if you have to chase someone down and say by the way I'm the parent you're the child here's a few things I want to tell you you already lost like imagine somebody well you don't have to imagine like people stand up in the subway and start preaching how many people are moved by that you have to attract your audience that's why like every Chabad house what do you do come over have some have a meal have some chicken soup I say look at you we'll sing a song and then when everyone's calm and they decide they're safe and they like you oh here's the Divine title 30 seconds you know get in get out but I've said this many times and I'll say it again it's not my original quote I think it's Teddy Roosevelt actually but people don't care what you know until they know that you care yeah it's a whatever it's an old quote but the point is it's true it's honest it's unavoidable you cannot escape this so to answer your question again parents giving advice to Children yeah great but that means if your child is 100 certain that you are caring you are safe you are trustworthy then it's going to naturally happen that you're going to be able to give them guidance and input sometimes when you say natural sometimes it can be tough and you can have a really good relationship with your child because of outside influences like children yeah but that's what you're competing with I I don't want to scare anyone but when I talk about parents bonding with children I don't want to say it in a scary way because we should do it just because it's the right thing not because we're we're afraid of what could happen if we don't but fine let me say it since you brought it up if you're not the person that your child comes to to share news with to process events of their life with to talk about their day with to just check in about reality if you're not that person so there's there's only two other possibilities one is they don't have anyone in their life like that which means they're terribly alone which is a disaster or it means they found someone or think they found someone who fills that role and you don't get to pick who that person is or what values that person has the healthiest thing is that a parent should be that person or at least let me let me rephrase that the parents should be the first person in their child's life who plays that role and then as your child grows and has a healthy model for what a trustworthy person is they God willing they'll find other people to find a best friend they'll find God willing their spouse will they'll have that level of trust in their spouse um but it it's really it's about the relationship if there's a connection then advice and guidance is is natural it's it's it's easy and if there is no connection then you can have all the great speeches in the world and you can be right but it's another way of saying last night you and I went to the oh hell and when we came in the rebel was talking about when you have a relationship with someone he was actually talking about our leadership roles and as well yeah the video the gem video when you come into the oh there's a gem video it was actually when we came out when we came out of the aisle the rebel was talking about leaders and that the first thing to do is to be kind and have compassion when you're sharing and after that you can give rebuke the translation was rebuke there you go so first comes like you're saying the bonding and the connection and the caring and then you can do it you're saying if they come to you to ask for it is that what you're saying there's something about marriage that's a little bit different every parent knows that they have a vested personal interest in how their children are gonna what their children are gonna be I want you to be a certain kind of person so I want you to marry a certain kind of person but you're not that kind of person so on the parents part it's a little selfish it's what I want so they have to be careful are they giving advice or are they manipulating right so it becomes very like you can't tell a person what they love what they're comfortable with they either are or they're not so there's got to be a little bit of Independence or distance where you got to let the kid be who he or she is and not try to make them into your image so all the great advice but in marriage parents and children I think they're looking for different things so parents have to be a little uh cautious on that one problem arises when a parent thinks it's that manipulation and they think it's advice right I think it's the best thing for my child and my child doesn't know and the parent convinces themselves that they're absolutely they don't even realize that they're imposing and then when how do you distinguish when you do see your child doing something that you would disagree with but the child may have to learn on their own we're not talking about a five-year-old talking about an adult and that's why a concept of a ravana sometimes plays a role that a parent cannot play because a parent is too close for comfort those throat since we're on the topic just trying in another uh qualification I mean the Reba says there has to be I'm sure as I live it's not good if there isn't but when there is you got to respect them uh an attraction uh drawn once that attraction is there you can't argue with it you can't say it's a good idea not a good idea it's not an idea well you said there's a difference between attraction and infatuation yeah maybe you can Define for us because you have your book creating a life that matters maybe you can share with us the difference and what love is or what love is not what love is and what what it's good for what it's not good for yeah I think a more important word than love which is overused and and lost all meaning by now vulnerability right somebody mentioned we already talked about vulnerability the purpose for marriage which I think everybody should know before they get married the purpose of marriage is to not be alone right that's what it says God says I'm going to create you a helpmate because it's not good to be alone what's not good about it what's wrong with being alone if you're if you're self-sufficient why not be alone it's much easier I joke about this but Torah says it's not good to be alone every human being in the world says leave me alone so is it good or is it not good vulnerability means I am not enough it doesn't mean I can be hurt that's the weakness of vulnerability the beauty of vulnerability is I am not enough I am self-sufficient I can do well by myself I don't need any help but I am not enough that is the ultimate vulnerability and that's what it means it's not good to be alone because being alone is not enough no matter how perfect you are I mean God himself doesn't want to be alone no matter how perfect he is because goodness begins when there is someone else so being perfect self-sufficient all all my all my mighty all-powerful that's functional there's nothing good about it where's goodness goodness begins when there's somebody else and that's because we were not created for ourselves if we don't teach our children this maybe they shouldn't even try to get married because if you don't understand this when you talk about Bittle or humility or selflessness this is what we're talking about it's not about you nothing you have love you're capable of loving what does pop psychology say love yourself wrong love you don't have love for yourself just like you don't have the power of speech and communication to talk to yourself it's not for you whatever you have is not for you we have to teach children this at a very young age and by example because then you have uh you know codependency which can often result in you know behaviors that can undermine a person's growth so how do you it's interesting because there is this whole notion of Independence you know like togetherness but also being a part and balancing the two um and then having self-love I guess it may be a different kind of self-love more like a humility so how do you how do you balance self-love is a given the question is what's it for why do I have self-love to give it away not to keep it just like these people who are worth 200 billion dollars what are they supposed to do with that keep it it's ridiculous it's so obviously not for you even though it is yours legally according to Tyler it's yours but who says it's for you you have information well it's for you of course not so this whole idea that it's not good to be alone means it's not good to live for you it's not a life it's just an existence life begins when there's someone else and that's how you define love that's how you define marriage right so that is the ultimate vulnerability now it would be nice if the person you're married to is a little lovable it wouldn't hurt it wouldn't happen yeah it makes it a little smoother a little more but the main thing is you can't be alone because you're not enough for yourself if you feel like you're enough don't marry anybody don't impose yourself on somebody else you can live with another person when you feel and know that you're not enough then there's room for another person then there's respect for the other person love can be very uh what is the word controlling consuming you swallow up the other person don't let them breathe because you love them so much love can be toxic vulnerability is never toxic so you're saying in a relationship vulnerability is the focus more than love yes and the immediate byproduct of vulnerability is respect the other person is significant to you not just lovable it's a message that would be good for everyone to hear today you know we were recently in Dubai we were brought out to um sing and speak for there were 100 widows brought out from Israel and we did an event there and the topic that we spoke about were women throughout throughout our history and how we're inspired by them and Eda and I noticed with each woman that we shared about which were our matriarchs and rabbits and Hannah and some others that they went through very trying times and sometimes it was a whole lifetime how can we take the past Generations their cabal assault that they had and I know because we I did 30 letters 30 days with Rabbi Shay's Tab and one of the letters the rubber shared that we all have the past Generations within us today but how we can know that but how do we really apply it practically in today's world I think that people often associate Cabela's all with subservience you know the way things were in this in the 50s and 60s where you know women today feel like oh we we don't want to be that person we want to express ourselves and and yeah have our voices heard look it's a pretty simple equation people are highly motivated do tremendously impressive things they're able to dedicate themselves to a Cause so then the answer is we need to provide more motivation which is by the way I I assume the the the purpose of something like this why are we doing this podcast form or having a discussion about ideas that are important to people in in their day-to-day lives why are we discussing this because they're trying to explain things to people in a format that is digestible in a format that that they'll appreciate where they can think about some things a little bit more deeply and we're trying to change the way they they they see their lives how they see relationships parenting marriage whatever it is and once that clicks and they say oh I never appreciated that before I never recognized that oh that's a new that's a new idea for me then that there's your motivation and then they can do selfless things then they can put themselves aside for a greater cause because they understand that there is a greater cause but running into a room and saying everybody there's a greater cause everybody you know jump on the floor what what you you can't just bark things at me that I that I don't understand I now going back to what I was saying before about trust about a relationship there are some people who have earned the right if they walk in the room and they say to me jump up jump down jump out the window I'll do it because they don't have to explain to me what the greater cause is if he says there's a cause he's got me he he can explain later if and when he he chooses to okay but that's because of the relationship that's the context so there's the trust there already but I think uh by and large today actually I should say so basically I think there's two jobs that we need to do one is to win people's trust God forbid never to break their trust and that's why compassion is so important today um so easy it's so easy to cause somebody ideological problems by emotionally disappointing them think about that and and people don't like to hear that because they they feel it's patronizing it's like calling into question the validity of their ideological quandaries but we're all human and the reality is if someone had just felt a little bit more safe and a little bit more seen it probably wouldn't have come to their uh their their quandary they probably would have worked things out or tabled it for a while until they until they could work it out so one thing is which is huge is to make people feel secure that I'll just speak about rabbis because because I am one like people have to feel rabbit is a safe person emotionally emotionally safe you want to talk about parenting children have to feel a parent is a safe person I said this uh in in a talk somewhere and then uh people I heard I decided because I repeated I heard somebody say it and and then I bet I got so much feedback about it I said I heard a father say when my kid grows up and gets in trouble I don't want her to say oh my God my my dad's gonna kill me I want her to say oh my God I gotta call my dad everyone's like yeah that's it that's it okay so whether you're a parent you're a rabbi you're you're a teacher you're a community leader everyone's a community leader in some capacity win people's trust show them that you're safe show them that you're reliable and God forbid don't expose them shame them call them out I mean that's just so counterproductive to any type of education okay that's one thing and then the other thing is that once there is that buy-in I'll call it buy-in so then you have enough you have an opportunity you have a platform someone's giving you a platform so explain to them what there is to be excited about and if you explain to them what there is to be excited about they'll do incredible things they'll be very dedicated I think I just want to say the Kinesis was recently the Deb is a primary example of that took a generation of people who this is this is this is current these are people from today and a lot of these children are young people Millennials okay but when there's the trust and there's a clear articulation of the greater purpose you can get people to do amazing things and and you look at the kinase and there's your proof and there's so many crises going on everywhere with Mental Health crisis we have uh you know marriage crisis with a divorce rate going up and parents and children are not getting along there's a lot of division and um you know this whole this is this quote don't be so busy mopping the floor that you don't think to turn off the faucet so if we're now assuming we're busy mopping floors everywhere and the water just keeps running what is the equivalent like what is and I'd love to hear from each of you what is the equivalent of that faucet just running what it what do we need to address or resolved that can help with all the surface stuff that were dealing with I mean there's so many crises going on everywhere with Mental Health crisis we have a you know marriage crisis with the divorce rate going up and parents and children are not getting along there's a lot of division and um you know this whole this is this quote don't be so busy mopping the floor that you don't think to turn off the faucet so if we're now assuming we're busy mopping floors everywhere and the water just keeps running what is the equivalent like what is and I'd love to hear from each of you what is the equivalent of that faucet just running what it what do we need to um address or resolved that can help with all the surface stuff that were dealing with it's I don't know if I really would say this any other time but in context I'll say breach of trust is the faucet turning off the faucet means restoring Trust I would add too well with uh rabbit Hub and what Robbie Friedman said earlier um just to take it to the next level not being alone or the the converse of that is being attached being connected to the right things so a lot of talk today about attachment disorder you know we all not only Thrive our very essence is about attachment in Hebrew same Gematria so love and being united with something is one nine months in our mother's womb we spent completely attached completely vulnerable on one hand but totally nurtured submerged loved protected sheltered in every possible way in a healthy home when the child is born so even though the umbilical cord has been cut but the attachment continues a child is cradled nursed loved again protected and all and we don't even know even scientifically what that achieves we only know when we don't have it when you say a child ripped away God forbid from a parent very young that child will never be the same adopt the children or something God forbid traumatic happens in pregnancy you know once upon they thought that children were deafblind and mute and nothing affected them but now we know it's exact opposite so healthy attachments will create healthy attachments so as you grow older you've been given the security you've been validated You've Been Loved so you have other self-respect and I'm talking about the best case scenario confidence so now when the time comes to leave the nest you have the confidence to spread your wings and build your own nest and you won't bring all your phobia and neurosis and phobias and fears and insecurities and inhibitions into the in your relationships again I'm talking the best case scenario take away healthy attachment that doesn't mean the person doesn't need attachment it just means that they don't know where to find it so they're going to find it elsewhere they'll find it sometimes in neutral places but very often in destructive places what do you think an addiction is an addiction end of the day is an unhealthy attachment you know someone that is uh mediocre we'll have mediocre addictions someone was passionate it's gonna have passionate addictions because just desperately looking to fill a void you thought you're thirsty you're hungry there's no healthy water to drink you're going to drink toxic water whatever will come your way and and to the point where you become so attached you can't detach so healthy love healthy relationships healthy marriage is of course not just the antidote that is the expression of healthy attachments ultimately it all comes down to attachment with God because you're not attached to anything that's man-made or Mortal you're attached to something greater than you are a creator that's really the essence of Torah you just got to see this an interface between the human and the divine total Transcendence that's the healthiest attachment and that's why indeed yes God is always used because even in uh of steps or elsewhere because you can't do it on your own but it goes much deeper than that when you look at this because it is the ultimate relationship um so I go back to what umitab said before I do agree that we have previous generations had things we don't have but also we have things they don't have I would just add one more thing into the equation they also had oppression they had what is called they were downtrodden they were Afflicted poverty discriminated against we have freedom we have Prosperity relatively speaking that or usually creates apathy so it's like the opposite of Kabbalah cell and then you become consumed so when someone worships their uh substances or they're addicted to something the antithesis of that is worshiping God Kabbalah said an attachment to the right thing not to the wrong thing so that's how I would phrase the faucet and the map and and I and I totally concur that about giving people the motivation well prior to that the trust to want to embrace it because the end of the day the lack of healthy attachments also creates distrust so there's no way they're going to get attached to something that's beautiful there's no trust there and and that's why very often I mean it's a very radical statement to make but some people have to lose God before they find God meaning they have to lose their wrong God the false god and they have to lose their false even religion and the ritual and the cultural almost addiction to religion to find the true religion or we don't like to use the word religion to find the true connection to to God I mean I know I'm saying a mouthful is a lot here but that's how I would frame it and our and our comforts are both a blessing and can be a great challenge Comforts create apathy Comfort zones no motivation so no motivation you're not going to really have kabulous whatever serves your needs at that moment and you have all the alternatives and you know every channel every convenience distractions and people are you know we're being inundated our attention and our senses are over stimulated so the only alternative to that is to create a very passionate commitment every given kind I use before bittel kabulousness they're really synonymous to something that is healthy and not just healthy will allow you to be the best you can be right someone how I would frame it that requires discomfort and what you're really saying getting to the faucet that is leaking or running is that we don't know why we're here the problem is not that we have problems the problem is when I solve my problems I still don't know what I'm doing here it's at the bottomless pit I solve a problem and nothing gets better because I don't know why I'm here why did I have the problem why do I have to solve problems why now in the olden days only the great philosophers asked this question and they got famous for it what is the purpose of life today everybody is haunted by this question it's in the back of everybody's mind the successful and the non-successful the traumatized and the nun why for what if we can't answer that question we're not stopping the leak so how do we answer the question well Victor Frankel had said that in order to do the how we need to have the why the big why long before Victor Frankl yeah the Bible said right when Franco says it by the way he quotes nature interestingly enough okay well they say Nietzsche said God is dead and God said you have to laugh and there are those who believe that when Nietzsche said God is dead he wasn't celebrating he was warning society that without God you're in trouble so he was actually and he was also revealing that that God that he was exposed to was never alive in the first place was uh stillborn so the question of why am I here if you don't answer that question you haven't gotten to first base so answer for answer it for us Rabbi Friedman I I must say the question of a wise person is half the answer the question is is the answer Journey to the answer if you don't ask it you're definitely not but I don't want to but it's so good to hear children asking it by the way Rabbi Taub said in his 30 letters 30 days the answer is always in the question the problem defined is half solved what do you say problem the problem the problem defined as time so did I say that no I think a problem defined as half cells once we could Define what the problem or once we can actually articulate the question well and understand that the acidic expression awareness of the problem is half the Cure right right exactly yeah so yeah why are we here oh you're going to tell us it's first of all it is the best proof that there's a God why are we even asking that question why are we tortured by it if I don't know why I'm here I can't live why do you care who says there's a reason there's no reason just enjoy can't we need a reason because there is one see that's we're not all crazy the fact that we're looking for a purpose means that there is a purpose nobody is homesick if you never had a home that's just pathology we have a purpose and we need to know what it is so where do you look after kovid you know you're not going to look into politics you know you're not going to look into science you know you're not going to look into medicine what's left where are you going to look for that answer by definition purpose means there was a purpose for you to be born you can't have a purpose after you're born you can't make up a purpose for a car after you build a car the purpose has to precede the fact So when you say what is my purpose I don't have a purpose I am the purpose but whose purpose obviously the Creator make that story in the gamut about the sage who saw a guy on the road that was very ugly and he said to him you're so ugly and he said don't complain to me complain to my maker and he wasn't so ugly after that because he recognized that there's a creator I don't make myself ugly I was made that way well by the same token I didn't make myself smart I was created that way so purpose by definition means a Creator who created you with a purpose otherwise there is no purpose so you want to know the purpose who you can ask you go for it well we need to yeah I mean where what direction do we go with this question meaning you're sending them to God you caught on yeah that's what I'm hinting at now you wanted us to ask you what is up but another another way of saying it is the leak is my neediness I need it's never gonna end if you we need a purpose so that's a need ah all my needs are are the faucet running and I fixed one of them I satisfy one need another one pops up it's endless it's frustrating and it's wrong that's why it's killing us we're not needy but we are needed well then the question is needed by whom so in the last years the rabbit kept emphasizing and repeating over and over and over our new Lane of racy I don't exist for me I exist to serve doesn't isn't that what purpose means I exist for a purpose which means not just to be me but to fulfill a purpose whose purpose the one who created me I was created with a purpose that's why I feel it I sense it I need it so I have only one need one not for food not for water not for wealth not for security all of that comes after the fact now that I exist I need all those things but why do I exist the answer is to serve him that makes me almost indestructible if I'm here to serve him what's going to bother me what's going to threaten me what's going to offend me almost nothing I'm here to serve so if I have a trauma how do I serve with this trauma if I have a gift how do I serve with this gift alluded to the well you kind of said that in the beginning in the first answer by taking on the approach that well it is the approach that Hashem gave this to us for a reason is that what you were saying he gave he gave the trauma to us we were meant to have it so Robin Freeman just said the reason right because usually when we say God gave it to you for a reason Oh you mean to teach me a lesson not to punish you or to punish you but to prepare me to cleanse you right right no for his purpose it serves his purpose you can serve him better with this trauma or maybe fixing this trauma is your service or you'll be able to help others because you know what this experience is always for someone else if I'm if I'm living for someone else you can't scare me you can't threaten me you can't depress me that is the ultimate answer question is how do we get there so that's what we're talking about you have to explain you have to reveal you have to you can't demand it's actually a freeing thought to think of um it's not about me I'm not here for myself I'm here for a higher purpose kind of yeah you can let go of so this little story which is so amazing I think it it answers all the questions went to Yeshiva in France from America he comes he arrives there goes into the office and reminiscent is sitting there reminiscent was like No No Nonsense you know he didn't give an inch he didn't know who whatever this one was and he said to him I need to call my mother son said whoa whoa darf what does that mean the boy thought maybe he didn't understand me I need to call my mother but the business said again so he said my mother needs me to call her which phone can I use instead of Nissan said ah stop lying when you said you need to call your mother you're lying it's not true a teenage boy on an adventure in France doesn't need to call his mother I mean we discussed this on our podcast I kind of felt like I was hoping the boy actually missed his mother I was hoping that the boy actually did want me to speak to his mother and he missed her no you miss her but he knew that she was waiting for a phone call and that was his motivation says to him your mother has a need and you claim it as yours it's not honest and it's not true so if you need to call your mother you're a big boy go find a telephone why should anybody help you but if it's your mother and you're doing what your mother needs everybody will help you because now you're doing something special something Noble the same is true with everything in life I need parnosa you need parnassa who created a world where businesses who arranged this whole thing that for a human being to have what to eat he has to go to school get a job pay bills kind of ridiculous notion is this you created that this is your need it's not stop lying don't make yourself the needy one when you're not this is God's creation and every detail is God's Creator so the person should say I need to make a paranasa to serve God God needs me to make paranosa and I don't know why you gotta figure it out God needs me to eat in order to live why it's embarrassing humiliating I gotta stop whatever I'm doing as important as it is because I gotta eat who did this to me most of the time I don't want it I don't want the need I like eating I don't like the need to eat so it's my need it's like saying yeah your need what are you God you need to call your mother you're not your mother don't take your mother's need which is serious something you should respect and turn it into your need yeah it's interesting because if you think about you know business gurus and people who um are like business coaches and advisors people will come to them and they'll say well it's not about you it's about your customer think about your customer that's what marketing is all about you want to build a successful business it's not about you you have to be able to just fill their need and go through the discomfort and all of these things that are so much easier to to do for some reason because we're in a career driven Society so how do we just get into this mindset of it's kind of the same thing we want to