UN Journalist, Jewish Press, G. Jacobson, Knesset- R' Avraham Shmuel Levine #8- RC Dalfin

We're here with Rabbi Aram Shmul Lavine. This is the eighth part of an interview for the meaningful interviews program. And we'll talk now about your work at the UN and the Jewish press and we'll go from there. Please. When I started working in the uh as a story, this was right when I came out of the yeshiva, I was in shikas to rule matters. You were all completely immersed in TA, right? And uh then I noticed and it was mainly in when I was in the Buddha Shabbat that I noticed. I noticed the saying the pen is mightier than the sword. And I saw how uh how an article in a newspaper can change the influence it has on even Torah scholars. They would and they would be afraid that somebody would write against them or what they would or expose or expose them or whatever. Yeah. And I saw this the tremendous influence that a newspaper article has on on people. The pen is my resort. So I decided that I'll also become a pen and I took some private courses in journalism. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. And uh I mean because you you didn't go to high school, right? And and I and uh I started writing in in the Jewish press from time to time. I would bring stuff from as from my brother to the Jewish press, right? My class always wanted to speak and learning. He he liked to speak and learning. Oh. And he was very interesting in the Torah world, the Riddic world. and he liked me and he wanted I should write in Jewish press. So he said so at first I started writing STEM articles but then he said that he needs somebody he wasn't no I said to him maybe the UN there's stuff going on the UN when he get to Israel so he said so I went to the UN and I and I brought my credentials from the Jewish press and I got a pass and I was there and it just it works so easy just I mean because the Jewish press wasn't the world the Wall Street Journal Really? Yeah. Yeah. And uh I was I told him it was the largest paper in the Jewish community. So uh so I was there. What was your I what what was your job there? Oh, you know I was there and I saw what what all the soul spoke against Israel. Right. And I'll give you an example. So you were a correspondent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll give you an example. I'll give you an example. I was there when Began bombed the Iraqi reactor in 1981. Yeah. Okay. No, Saudi Arabia. The the guy is Israel's a cancer in the region and my you were you heard it all. And then another thing I want to tell you about this I think it's important you should know when I came here I was with my uh uh hat with jacket a beard. Yeah. And I came there and I was that's not the way everybody looked, you know. So I started feeling sort of inferior, right? And sort of like with my whole I didn't touch my beard because of that, right? But I felt uncomfortable, right? Being being about I was never, you know, it just strange to me. It was the first time coming up in this new environment. Yeah. And but then one time I saw the representative of Africa countries coming in the way they were dressed. Wow. I said to myself, if they can go like this comfortably, I can go like this and then from that they you felt comfortable. I felt very uncomfortable even more than them. Right. So when you heard this I want to tell you this. I'm not going to say names. And but I saw there also and this is this I think this strength to give you that when you feel uncomfortable and nevertheless remain firm by your convictions I think only gives you because I noticed there I'm going to mention a name who was called Ara he also came to sit in the press section and to to follow it he was They were without Yam. Wow. Everybody was going out of the Yamington. I didn't go with my hat all the time, but I went for the Yam Yam. And I saw that when he looked at me and he saw that I was with the Yamik. He was sort of like uneasy. Right. He got embarrassed and I I didn't want to hashem him. So I didn't even talk approach as as though I don't see him. Right. Right. But okay. So I was there. So I was there during the nuclear the bombing of the nuclear reaction 1981. Yes. That week I reported in the Jewish press. It was a big big a whole full page with quotes of what this guy said, what this guy said, what this guy said and it made a big impact in the paper. The front page was look on page so and so you see that chabas I was 770 and Jacobson the editor of the algamin walks over to me and he says I saw your report you probably got $300 for it right so I said I didn't pay me yet but then I said but think like this you should get at least $300 or $500 so I So, so no, you you were paid by by I I was so for No, you weren't on salary, right? At that time, I was paid by by each article. Right. Right. So, I I I didn't get paid yet, but then I started thinking myself started getting I started dreaming, I can make $500. I'm going to get three $500 for here. You know, I didn't think less than 300. And I was really, you know, was really excited. Excited. And then he come he pays me he sends me in the mail brother class pass a check of $25 you have no idea what that did to me. So that week I had a I had to I had to I wrote into the reb about something. Yeah. And I mentioned that you know what he that I don't feel that right you feel like you would not respect it. Yeah. He says felt humiliated. Yeah. He says yamsh yamsh a second time said yamsh continue. Yeah. And then and then I uh so I I came to Israel and then at a certain point they needed a an editor here in Israel. Which paper? Jewish press. Oh yeah. Yeah. So then I got a call from class that he wants me and then he gave me much more. Much more. Much more. A salary. Salary. A gazuna salary. Beautiful. Beautiful. You deserve it. Yeah. So, so tell me you had a strong relationship with the Gishon Jacobson. You could say yes. Yeah. Yeah. Remember I remember in 1975 G made a a headline with Satler. No, that was Baz. He made a headline with Dr. Rafo minister. Oh. Oh. Oh yeah. forget his first name. Yeah, I forgot his first name. Dr. Afo. Yeah. Yeah. He was in America at that time. This is during the the mihood issue that the Reb was demanding Mdaw should come out of the the government all the time. The Reb pounded all the always to come out of the government and he was there for a certain I think race to raise funs for the for and was there too and he overheard him saying was speaking to somebody else. They say we we wage war to say we against which matter in which matters matters and we'll wage war against the the big he splashed it splashed front page and immediately the rabb wanted to know where Right. And they didn't speak up. Yeah. And they wanted to and they demanded from the guru to come out against the condemnation something like that. But before doing that they have to know exactly you know for a dying possible his argument his position they had to call. So they called they heard his position and they called Jacob. So not the same time told Gish to hear his position. So I remember Gashin came and we sat down and I took notes at that time. He said what he said and he said what he said. I don't remember what happened with me. Was he was he an intelligent superb writer editor uh Gman what? Gish was a was a journalist by excellence. What do you mean? Yeah. Oh yeah. Gish Jacobson. Wow. Mashu as they say here. Really? He was really is the real the real the real McCoy. The real stuff. You mean top level? Yes. He he could match himself with any correspondent. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. He knew how to get scoops. He knew exactly where to, you know, where to pull the pull the plug or press the plug. Right. Right. To dig in. Yeah. He knew exactly what to answer this. And he was he was good. He was good. It was the Reb's man. Yeah. But I don't know if people know it, but a lot of stuff that that the Reb Reb used to speak about the things he got from Gian's reports. Actually, I'll tell you something. There was one time the Reb the Reb was and he mentioned something. He he uh he he was speaking about and he and I knew that this was a report that he got from me in the United Nations. That was one time United Nations and all that made a special event in the United Nations and the guest speaker was the Egyptian ambassador to the UN and the Egyptian Egypt. This was the camp David of course during that time when the reb was said is the Davis and here Orthodox organization invites an Egyptian an Egyptian representative and I was invited there too and I was sitting there with all the modern Orthodox rabbis. I was sitting at a certain table and when this guy walked in this ambassador everybody stood up and I couldn't do that. I just couldn't do that. Egypt is now is now going to cause such a calamity for Israel and this is you're getting up for him. The people the the four or five rabb that were sitting with me saw that I didn't get up. They didn't get up either. Wow. Or else they would have gotten up to right. So we were the only king there. So I wrote this in to the Reb afterwards. And then the FB said So he's saying he based on your report. So I'm saying that you know GB had much more reports than I did right and I know I'm sure the mention had a very close rapport with the Reb very close rapport with the Reb and and the Reb would speak to him things that he wouldn't speak with with others and was a very very special person. I love him very much. Yeah. Yeah. H um since you mentioned the cape Camp David Accords um that's that was with Egypt. Yes. Yeah. So it's 30 40 years later and there's been peace with Egypt. That's peace. That's peace. Have we had any wars with Egypt? Okay. Wait. Wait. What? What? Did you hear what Don't you read the papers? How they're mobilizing themselves there against who are they? They're mobilizing. you know what's going on over there with the tunnels that they're doing and and and all this I don't the Rafa crossing right is over the Rafa crossing yeah around there and other areas and Ml the Reb said right away after the the camp David was signed said the ink of the camp David is not even dry and already they let in terrorists at that time there was terrorist attacks they did that so this all said I'm not going to go into that right right Okay. Um, so you were a correspondent for the Jewish press while you were working for the Audis Rabon. Yes. Uh-huh. And you were able to do both things together? Yes. Okay. Did you uh I'm sure you you asked the Reb, but did anything when you wrote to him about being a correspondent, did he respond? Do you remember anything? No, I didn't write. Uh-huh. Uhhuh. No. Okay. So then, uh, let's move from there. The next thing you did um uh was you came to this road, right? Yeah. And you told me how you got to the right but I think uh you were very involved with the this and also that you I know that you had connections or with the politicians and the tell me a little bit about that because we we don't know much about that. You had an official title or Well, main job was when I was in McNess for six years with as an assistant to the minister and to you vote. Yeah. And we together and like I said before, began in the government. Yeah. And and when when agreed to the demands of Yuval, he yuval was ready to come into the government but no portfolio for him. Everything was taken up. So since he was the head scientist in Israel, the the main scientist is the chief scientist in Israel, he uh he was also nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize, but somebody had somebody interfered and sabotaged it and I know he was was very very insulted. Yeah. And Well, an interesting an interesting thing here is when we when after the elections when they got five they they they started out with two two members but then when I was there they came up with five and he became a minister. Okay. No, first of all it's not a he asked me out. So there was no portfolio for him. Yeah. So they since he was uh chief scientist they decided to establish a new ministry the science ministry of Israel and they took certain a branch that had to do with science in the energy ministry they took that out and then the education ministry took that out whatever to science and they made a new mas uh mama Mad Sar Mis Ahad Hamada the office of of science science yes and he was a science minister when he became science minister now when I was in the it's not like today my my I didn't want that people should know that I'm not I didn't want people because I knew the reb was against getting involved of politics lab politics and although I was not involved in polit as a lab and I was there just an employee not as a as an employee right so but nevertheless nevertheless I didn't want people knew I mean there other people knew but I didn't have a name like that it's like in I wasn't the lab it was Elbert who was the lab elbert Yeah. In other words, if they would come to me, not so they would come to you to speak against labav because they knew I was not a lab, right? They thought I was not. Right. Okay. Okay. So, the same thing here. I didn't want I didn't want you didn't want to be known as a cuz not in politics. Okay. So, I was I was uh with him and we became he became a minister. The next day following that day, the secretary of the party of the you know No, no, no. The secretary of the party in the called me said to me, "Listen, Rabbi Wolf is was looking for you." Rabbi Wolf. Yeah. And I thought it was Burka Wolf. Yeah. Burka. Yeah. I didn't Burka. He was also in the Yeah. was always a nickn. So he was he was the kabat spokesman. So he was always there for Israel. Yeah. We always he just you know wink each other. Yeah. So he uh he was there and and and then he wants to speak to me and I was very angry that he he went to them. He couldn't come to me. Why does why should this person think you know he always came to me why why why shouldab go to to them? Right? So I called him up. He said, "What do you want?" She said, "What do you mean, what do I want?" He said, she said that you wanted me. She said, "Not me. I didn't call you. Maybe my father involve the he was like the ambassador of everything that the Reb wanted in Israel went through him." Right? So I called him up and I said, "Did you call me?" He said, "Yes." So he said, "What?" He says, "Rebad wants the Reb secretary." Yeah. Rabbi Khadak called me and he says, "The Reb wants that you should make an appointment between Professor Yal Nean and Professor." Yeah. So uh you know like this immediately I made it was the elu and I made that appointment and they sat for 45 minutes and they spoke you know and uh he I think the rabbi wanted he should get the Nobel Prize. or on on Bronover could be I'm not sure but uh so they had a 45minut meeting meeting yeah and then following after after keeper of keeper during during Kesset recess Ivan Neman would be a guest chair in the University of Austin in Texas he would go there okay to lecture or whatever and he was there. So he says to Browner, he says to Brown at the end of the meeting, he says to him, you know, I'm going to be in in Austin and so and so and a Shan Rab I'm flying back to Israel and I'm going through New York. I have a flight. I have to stop there. I'll be there for three, four hours, three hours. I would like to utilize this hour too with why don't we do reb I never met can you facilitate it so I so so wrote in the rebs I would love to meet with I would want very much to meet with him especially since his views on security are identical with mine. But this is after already this is after 78 didn't take only right. You finished having private audiences. So said but do I would love to I would I would love to have meet him privately. Yeah. Yeah. But since since but since but due to reasons that are not the within my ability meaning because of his health I can't do it and they gave him a okay so going back to uh to what we speak about brotherhood no you you said that uh Rabbi Khadakov asked you asked. No, no, that was before before that before I came into this this Oh, another thing I I I'd like to mention about her to become a president of Israel. It starts off with suggestions, proposals from Kavikess or from ministers and then you know even though it's sold off beforehand but nevertheless it's officially that's so I asked one of the of why should propose brotherhood become president of Israel after all he's prominent scientist and he presents Soviet jewelry and refusing I mean he his big name he's a big name in Israel and why don't you and they proposed now at the end he didn't become but the mere fact that he was a candidate and they were speaking about it that raised his stature so much what year was this 1983 huh so so but what about the the you're involved with that aren't you involved with that organization. Yeah. Okay. So that was well started started with Uval. I mean why why didn't I agree to join with you because they were very strong like the Reb said his security issues identical security is identical. My views are identical to yours. Yeah. Yeah. So I was very very very involved in that. Now what happened afterwards? Six years later, I when I stopped working in the I started working for the Jewish press, I became the Jewish press correspondent here in Israel. It was here for I think big time almost 20 years I think. 20 years almost. Yeah. So that was a full-time job. Yeah. Full-time job. 15 years. 15 20 years. Yeah. From when to when I don't remember. Look, I finished in 1998. When did you finish with Uval? I'll tell you in a second. 66 I start I became in 1998 199 1998 1999 that's when I started becoming a uh for the Jewish press. Yes. And I in 204 I think 204 you finished. Yeah. Okay. So from time to time I do yeah submit articles. Right. Okay. So, we're talking about audits. Okay. So, I and then after after 204 after 204. Oh. Oh, also actually before that when I was in Oh, I started in 1998 and uh but beforehand Rabbi Galis in Tel Aviv Tel Aviv started founded an organization. This is after This is during the Rabin Rabin tenure when he was ready to give up the Golan. So that was in the 80s, wasn't it? Huh? It was in the 80s. No, in the late 80s early 90s. Yes. So he and he had a to do Karitzki. Yeah. And he started an organization called the Pikur Nevish Committee that the because giving up land is nefish. Yes. Risk of life. What he did was he took he brought up based on the Shabas chapter 329 in the code of Jewish law. You're not allowed to give up land. Because it'll be because it will right because it it'll endanger it'll endanger it will cause if you give them like a foot they'll take a a finger they can take a hand and it'll at the end it'll lead to them overpowering Israel right and he based that his on that and he sent it out to all the to sign And hundreds of rabbis signed it. They did sign. They did sign it. Ad from time to time the new rabbis that signed and you had big that signed. You had and you had the literatur was he made a zil zilic they called him in. Oh yeah. I think Oh, yeah. The osmidu. You just passed away. Yeah. Yeah. And and you had the lawyer of the side the one was really involved was very much for the one who passed away. Yeah. Rabbi Freriedman. Yeah. Passed away. The one his youngest son took over. He appointed him that his Yeah. He was very close to the I think. No, the one the one that took over and now I was a grandson. Oh, grand. You're talking about the zed. Okay. The zed. I'm talking about the Oh, okay. And the province of him. So they So yeah, go ahead. So he needed to expose it and to this seven days also in English and he asked me to do it. Uhhuh. That's how you came into the picture. So and since it's a Indian Yeah. So I got very much involved with Mhm. And what we do is that we there are some our goal is to public because said in he was talking about after years of speaking about and condemning the Israeli government and criticizing them for not doing what you're supposed to. The Reb said expressed himself one time. He said, "We did so much and it doesn't help. So there's nothing else left but to be to publicize since Right. A ruling makes it makes a change in the world." Yeah. changes facts in the in the world, right? So I guess this is the only thing that's left is to be publicizes and this what gave Rabbi Galitzki the push to do this to do this and what we do is that we from time to time we meet with all ambassadors from various countries all over the world. We met with the English ambassador. We went with almost every United States ambassador and with the French ambassador and for the European European Union ambassador and we gave him over this dal with willing and asking them to persuade their country their respect their country not to pressure Israel on giving back land but to encourage them to hold on the land. So are are you the individual that does the like you're the liaison? You you you talk to them directly to the ambassadors. I do but you it's a group. Uh-huh. But no, you're not lobbying. You're not a lobbyist in the Knesset. No. No. Right. No. Right. One.