0:00 / 0:00
Tracing the Early Origins of Saying LeDovid during the months of Elul and Tishrei
276 views
AUDIO ONLY Presented by Rabbi Dr. Eliezer Brodt Beginning General introductions including Rishus seltzer story Intro about Tehilim daily and in Elul Autobiographical accounts of Saying L'dovid First source Shem Tov Koton Sefer Zechirah Drashot Shaar Hamelech Siddur R Shabtai Panim Yofos Siddur Baal HaTanyah R Efrayim Zalman Margolis Luach in Galicia 38;30 Mishna Berurah שירי הלויים Sefer HaMussar Possible Source from R Chaim HaKohen Talmid of R Chaim Vital Possible source from times of Maharsha Chemdas Yomim
Chapters
Comments(0)
Transcript
Auto-generated transcript. Not time-synced to the video.
hello this is misha shwade the following
presentation on tracing the early
origins of saying the david during the
months of el latishrei will be presented
in two parts here is part one and stay
tuned for part two due to technical
difficulties audio only will be
available and there won't be any video
[Music]
welcome back rabbi dr eliezer brought we
have another special episode we did one
on view the levy tish above time and it
got tremendous feedback and incredible
amount of attention at over six thousand
views
and
rabbi brought figured people like the
content
that is not directly related to parsha
or daf and let's see let's give it to
the people give it to the audience
and let's see the feedback on this one
so the topic today is tracing the early
origins of saying the david hashem
many of us have the minute to say this
twice a day shacharis some say by minha
some say by magriv some people if
they're fortunate enough to dive in by
as far minion miner and ashka's meaning
familiarity they say three times a day
are those we're going to see who don't
say it at all
and we are here to learn more about this
minigun rabbi
brought how are you today
barak hashem so
you're going to tell us
something i've heard from you you even
have plans one day to write a safer
about so that means that you've spent
quite a few hours
days months on the topic
so maybe tell us
a little bit about how you got into it a
general introduction of what this topic
entails
okay so number
a few introductions as you just said one
is like this
many i fell into this
derek agav
while working in a
on the topic of it started with
um
sleeping on rosh hashanah the sort
tracing the sources of sleeping on
shashana which
ended up getting into what many
different areas of rosh hashanah
then somehow got to yom kippur
and then somehow got even to ishana
rabba
somehow through this at one point
it already expanded backwards to l
and and while looking into certain
things i looked i started i started i
was testing out something
and now ladavid has already been
discussed by many people so i assumed
that
it was already
kardashian robin as the
without quoting the rest of the pisco
that's used for this so i said okay i
don't have anything really to say about
the david but then different things um
were said at the time a friend of mine
which we'll get to had a interesting
point and
bottom line is i decided to look into it
and then i fell into a tremendous
tremendous rabbit hole which i am still
in
that was number one
number two is that what sparked my
interest further was
that
in recent and then i and i actually
wrote about in a few different versions
of articles about it published in a few
different places
um
and different
each time expanding expanding and then
okay i and then i actually published in
a small booklet called the cutely ezer
a few articles of mine about 12 years
ago okay fine very good i figured
um that's it there's nothing more
there's plenty more to say about it
because i was only trying to do certain
things and that's it
in the past 12 years i've come across
many different sources many different
things and discussions that people still
talk about
and for some reason it's a very fun
topic of rabbanim
um to talk about um about this minute
where's where's it come from and then to
try to explain looking through the david
what it has to do with these special
days
and i heard many different speeches
about it and i read different articles
about it and i still and i see that it's
they're full of mistakes
i'm not going to bother to list out all
the people
what the mistakes are
um but but
in short there are a lot of mistakes out
there and i decided you know even though
it's been 12 years i'm going to revisit
the topic a little bit and with all my
editions so tonight today
tonight for me actually i'm going to
discuss some of the materials that i
have had discovered up till now now to
be clear this is not my discoveries some
of these discoveries are built on
discoveries of other people but it's the
combination of everything
putting together
and adding to it checking into different
things as i'll mention
the third and final introduction to this
topic is um
is that this is jet this is related to a
more general
subject of interest of mine which is the
nicest of
the understanding the siddha and
understanding the the cloud davening in
general and how the city that we have
developed when i was a bakr already i
asked a tremendous time
could he recommend to me a safer to
explain how davening develops all the
different parts of having how when were
they put there
and it's stuff like that and the gear
studies and that not only to
first understand when it came into the
sitter and then to understand what it is
why is it being said specifically here
so he told me there's no such there's no
such safer there have been attempts and
i've been uh hunting these works down
ever since and until today this question
i asked this person or something like 20
25 years ago and today there have been
many works articles on specific topics
but there is no one
uh book i'm actually people ask me all
the time about it now so what i did over
here with this topic some of what will
come clear this is a also a method how
it has to be done
for the rest of for all of davening so
to speak and
hashem i i actually did try for some
other
things also and other people are working
on different aspects about this so those
are three general general topic um
introductions of how i
got to this but uh
one more short introduction is what am i
trying to do with my presentation you
say i'm not coming here today to try to
learn up this capital and then to
explain
um
what the connection between this capital
and the different ukrainian how they
learn it up or some people use the
resharing on to him which they are
planning
to explain it and the connection i'm
trying to understand is how and when did
this come so when did this become so
widespread and what is now so far to
date our earliest source that we could
say says in black and white
um
to say it during the months of ellen
tishrei that's my goal
and i to just to illustrate it with one
short story of recent times and through
this i actually think people will be
able to relate more although it's a
little more comical but people will be
able to understand more what i'm going
to be getting to eventually there's his
follows
a few a few i think they're ready a few
months ago someone made a
speech a short very short speech less
than two minutes
and in and in the speech someone
recorded him and he said the he said in
the speech without getting to all the
things that he said but he spoke about
he want he likes to drink riches cold
seltzer okay fine
now at the time i actually probably
around that time i did come across i
don't follow twitter um sadly but i
somehow came across the song that was
turned from it i heard it and that was
it i did not know that it became a very
very big
um thing
fast forward two to three weeks ago the
summer ramaphae chemish we're not i
don't live in i live in ramaphe chemist
and i have a son
about nine years old he's in camp and
and all of a sudden he's starting to
drink seltzer he we drink salsa he
started to drink salsa he never drinks
ulcers no idea why
then he said something about
vicious cold celtic or something
no idea what's going on until we figured
out during the color after listening to
the color war songs and the whole and
video of what went on the camp and
basically that song that was made in
months in i think is muncie maybe
was it spread to that in camp it was the
song that they played the whole day that
these little kids who don't even know
what what what what's even talking about
we're talking about drinking vicious
cold shelter and it was this song
playing non-stop for a good few hours
every day it was related somehow in
color war and this kid that's why he
wanted to drink cold salts now but now
this poor guy who said this gave that
speech for a minute and a half he had no
idea that anyone was ever gonna he knew
that he was being recorded but he had no
idea that it's eventually gonna make it
to
the subject of articles twitters songs
um it's ported i believe in the
senator's speech um
already he never thought such a thing
some this what happens is is that
someone says something and now the
question is how it gets all over today
we understand because we have the
internet and now this between the
internet is nothing there's whatsapp
groups and twitters and
so it could spread in seconds but but
way back not 30 years ago even something
spread it took time for it to spread and
if you go further back it took even more
time to spread so when we're so i'm my
attempt to today that i would like to do
is
if i could pinpoint the error who as far
as we know he's the person that did it
but then who's just because i find it in
some whacked out safer or or if he's not
a whack that's it could be a very
cautious at that time but maybe no one
else heard of it so how do i know how it
gets
accepted to start becoming so widespread
that today it's like the first speech as
soon as lb comes everyone talks about
yes and olden days um people used to
faint when they heard the cry of
um but they heard retrends benjing of el
the famous all the different sources of
that and then the next thing is uh we
start saying la david and some people no
the god didn't say lord david i'm a
granic all of a sudden and the other
people are like okay we have to settle
dove it and we say lord of it and then
and then somehow it gets in there so
these are my um
short introductions sorry for being so
long but let's get going okay so before
you get going
as you've done so well with
all the topics you've discussed has
really gone through the history
um
from source until today you know whether
how something was learned or how was
wrong learned right how kachin was
learned throughout the generation so i
think this is really what you're
attempting to do with la david where'd
it start and had it spread and and where
are we today with it um a couple of
things
um
i put this out that we're doing this
recording we got
um at this point i put it on a few
minutes ago
one person
sent me the recording from dr schneider
lyman is that something that you're
aware of
yes bar hashem i i'm well aware of it i
cited it right into my article i expand
on what he says
and we'll get to the mirror
and
and he enjoyed what and he enjoyed and
he definitely enjoyed what i
added to the conversation of what he did
i took it much much further than him um
but what he said with the sword actually
one of the sources that he quoted was
excellent source to springboard me into
my rabbit hole further and i think i've
mentioned publicly that
um dr lyman was one of
my
sources to get introduced to you um how
we started originally so that is one
thing somebody else asked if
he heard that there may be
some source
that is from a
sub she and i'm probably not pronouncing
it properly you could correct me
um
safer and that's where people got it
from
it's a baby i understand if you're
living in lakewood
sabathians you didn't hear um nahi
weinstein's whole series of uh i don't
even know how many lectures he has on
decisions
i'm all out sir
how many did you how many does he have
got to be 12 to 15. many
yeah so special series in his chatter in
his farm china thing so so yes so we
will emit hashem we'll get to it a
little bit in the course of uh this
discussion yes
okay fine so as we begin the david is
the topic here take it away
okay so first i'm going to begin with a
general introduction and then we're
going to and a little bit
leading into the david and then we're
going to get to tracing exactly first
like this
we know safe at the hilum plays a very
important role in our in general for us
jews but specifically for davening
avraham berliner and his onsider shows i
think says that something some number of
over 50 complete capital somehow make it
into telum and hundreds more absurdum
are partially found all over davening um
ezra malamud has a whole article
retraces all diff where he collects all
different things showing on a crazy
amount how
if you're going through all different
it's between smart them also every all
types of you didn't a crazy amount that
tell them ends up in in our sitter at
one point or another throughout the year
okay there's also a age-old minig which
goes very very far back
that people say to that people used to
say tell them daily they still do people
do it some people finish it weekly
monthly that's a whole whole discussion
the origins of that but when you move
into l
specifically starting yellow so the the
safer mata frying which we'll get to
soon
he talks about that there's a minute to
finish it a few times
and some some
speaking of sabatians some people try to
link it that this minig really is a
sinic but it's not it's for sure not
already way before zabatians let's say
in the in sfas the times that ariza in
the letter that was printed we have that
they would that the attacker would say
to help there was a minute to to say
all of to hillary over l
and so it's not it's
it predates it
and there's others there's many other
sources for this but in general in the
yum nuram especially once you get to
rosh hashanah and kippur shannon rabbit
to him is mamash
said people had a meaning specifically
to just say it over rosh hashanah over
yom kippur staying up the whole night
young kipper hashana rabba
and taylor basically plays a very
important point important part of
claudia's role is davening and
specifically in these days of ello and
the yom nero
i traced it the the minhagum of rosh
hashanah and kippur would tell him i
traced in in a very big article about it
but this today we're focusing on ello
with ladam
so some try to point out that ludovic is
not only said
during l and tishrei it's also said in
other times the year now one has to be
very careful in general is just because
something says in an article does not
mean that it says it there could be
mistakes
and what i'm saying also there could be
mistakes so one always has to check up
everything um big there's a famous pisca
is
and when one checks up things inside a
lot of times the story appears to be
much different than what i said
so some of these true some of these
times that they find that is said is a
mistake but there are clearly in some
lists
predating um um
the 1700s even earlier than the 1700s we
find that people would say ludovic
amongst other capital film daily
specifically already in th this is
already um in the 70 this is already in
the mid 1700s a beautiful say for
kafunaki that was printed
from morocco that quotes from manuscript
but today we are zaika that was printed
in recent years
he says that the
morocco by him they used to say it daily
by around before meyer if they would say
look nothing to do with l nothing to do
with tishrei it doesn't say why they had
other capital they also would say but
it seems also there is
it says that there was a meaning that
people would say it all year round okay
but ashkenazi jews they became accepted
to start saying it when
in
elo and to shray twice a day and we're
not going to get into if it's chakras
minha or chakras mairev and what's
behind that and how that happened we'll
just touch on it later on okay just now
if you fast forward
um one way to when you're tracking
trying to track down um different types
of things if it's accepted or not very
good sources autobiographical accounts
of people so in a very interesting
autobiography from bernard drachmann he
talks about he was on a train
and this just my friend shimon steinmetz
he pointed this out to me many years ago
and basically he was on a train they
were davening and
this brachman said he pointed out to
them that you forgot to say the 27th
peric of tehillim don't you know it's
the month of ello which we say this tell
him he said morning and evening and this
person said
it's really true and then he says to his
his neighbor he says it's a shame in the
disgrace that a dich
had to remind us
that we have to say this
okay anyway we see that in this is
taking place after the 1870s on a train
and he was traveling he was he was
visiting he was visiting europe and he
was traveling from different places in
galicia okay
in a safer um a fascinating safer uh yes
who was a talmud of
relative of the native very closer to
many good i live including berlin
so it seems that in his russians when he
used to give in when he talked about his
russians of el he's his wife set over
that he would talk about the capital
of the david and he would go through it
very slowly explaining it to his siber
always okay so here we see a more lit
fish source
also from that period of time that i was
accepted to say okay fine so these are
just um very
um some just to throw out there okay now
let's get to
um to the to the to the bottom line what
is the story of the david and could we
um pinpoint what it so
um basically
it seems
and this is i'm building off the
conclusions of of various different
people
ready for 100 years they've been
claiming it but as time goes on we're
able to say with more certainty that
this
date and this source is the source
because
first of all more swarm are available
today than ever before manuscripts are
being printed so we a lot of times could
establish different
information over time with more and more
about it
and basically that is in 1706 a safer is
printed it's called chainter of cotton
from rabinyamanbanishakayan
and inside this mahabhara
it's a
the safer he um
he has a rickos and says and i will
quote his lotion i will not quote his
whole russian because uh it's uh it's
long it's over it's a page and a half
but basically in this
safer we shall also discuss
what is the nature of the safer and what
is the significance of the safer and
what we know about
the author which is also interesting to
relating to this kind of to this
conversation it says like the sight
goddess
and as you if you look up this whole
piece you'll see he's referring to this
even if there's a tremendous xavier on
the person
it's a tremendous thing
and um that if you say this capital it
now note his timing is from
until after simcha
okay then he says
explaining why that is
and this is way above my pay grade this
deals within kabbalah
um
where he shows that the with the with
the
different aspects that he how he what he
sees in this capital not so much what he
sees in the capital in the havana of the
of the actual words but different words
represent different things in kabbalah
as i said way above my page
and it's over a page about it and i
leave that for the mukubalam to explain
the the um what's going on over here
then he says another aspect he says also
there's also an aspect to say it's on
chaining the hamishi of elo when you're
already fasting
especially on um on cersei made chuva
after she
so there's a so that's a second aspect
of this saying this capital okay fine
now just because a guy writes this
guy i'm not saying a guy we're talking
about uh it turns out very very hush of
a person
in 1706 and the safer like how does this
get anywhere how does this get to the
vicious cult seltzer that i mentioned in
the beginning
so
a few years later he publishes another
saver called amtas binyamin and this
safer also hey mentions at schoola and
this safer he actually even adds some
another schooler relating to saying the
david that if one says it at a um with
it is let's say you're in your house and
you have a safer tire in your house and
you have a cloth
with this capitol mismatch of um of this
mismar ludov
unbelievable also the what's going to be
opened up for you for your philos the
hula hulu he talks about this
now then it so
he and and but he also brings in to say
in this safer i'm talking about there is
talking more i think it's about um
um helping out a school of
foreign today but it is
i always love hearing from you you talk
about segulas
knowing your background school has
really got you going so thank you for
sharing with the audience
escula yes yes definitely correct
correct
now now
basically i'm talking about so there he
talks about it more but say they're fun
but still
how does this help us getting out get it
out there so so first is that although
today
the safer is not really well known okay
yes there's hebrew books designs
can find it easily
but
after he printed in 1706 through the
1700s it was printed eight or nine times
so in in practical words to explain that
means it was a pretty very popular work
very they're considered like sort of a
best seller
now
why was it a bestseller because this is
a school of safer there's a lot of
schools in here to
do and if you do them you'll get
whatever whatever happens it's not only
a school saver there's other aspects of
the safer and i'm not going to get into
all old barracudas all the different
aspects of the safer but that it has a
lot of schools
but this schoola it's not a stomach
schooler you know you give 19 shekel at
the time three o'clock at three o'clock
in the evening and your eyes are closed
then who knows what's going to happen
here it's saying a capital hillem um so
it's a whole different type of a thing
okay
okay fine so it gets so we now
established that it's a popular safer
and still but this is not explaining how
it's getting into the sidder now
research has shown you cannot find it in
any sedum before the 1700s that's a
significant thing to prove that to
helping with this date fine
lamai says but this safer only becomes
very popular from the 1740s and onwards
i don't know what happened in those 30
years um why it wasn't as popular but
another safer comes along and that is
called the safe as a hero this saver is
printed in 1709 he quotes mamish this
piece from shame to cotton um and he
uses the shame to cut them for other
stuff and this is a
a massive safer of schools and it became
also a best-selling safer somewhere from
the 1730s
once you hit the 1800s the save is
printed numerous numerous times
it's a famous safer that people love to
quote for different schools that we do
um
about 10 15 years ago someone went and
tried to figure out most of the macaires
of this after but one early source was
the shame to cut so now here we already
have they're expanding it's not only the
shame to cut and that's the early source
it's the safest hero which was also a
very popular safer so we have two
sugusvaram that are very popular in
eastern europe
in these years and that's the first
early sources that have this to say this
but
it has help
there's a safer called charamella which
is a excellent drush safer from a rav
first printed in the 1760s
from remartre um i think he was the
avesden of i can't even pronounce this
i'm not going to bother to break my
teeth but the safer is a beautiful safer
i've gone through a lot of a lot of the
safer full of interesting things
and this safer is also very popular and
from 1766 until 1797 it's printed six
times okay so it's printed six times but
what does he say he also says the same
nakuda that love it is a special thing
but he but he adds
he says like this
um
i'm going to talk about hamilton
so he's already telling you that in 1766
and he's really probably referring to
earlier it's only printed in 1766
that take a vacations
parishes
and then he gives his own explanation
um what's behind the what's behind the
connection between this capital and l
and the omniram but here but the point
is now we have another safer that's also
a very popular drush safer
in those years now what's fascinating is
in the 1700s when it's from 1766 to 1797
it's printed six times for those that
don't understand the history of printing
in those days that means it was also a
very popular work in general printers
didn't print books that couldn't sell
it's printed six times that's beyond
popular but
after the 1797 is pretty much not
printed
until you know whatever 30 years ago and
i think there's a nice edition i might
have once seen about it anyway okay
but it's still not found in any sudurum
so now how do so so at this point yes
it's probably a nice school that was
that people heard of and this already we
now have three khashoggi sources that
are saying
comes along
somewhere in the 1790s the khida brings
it down
also
which also was popular in certain
circles
but that but he does
i do not believe that that time was
popular in the eastern europe circles so
much but that's a different that's a
different discussion now in 1794 one of
the early sudhuri what's called the
siddur the hasidis
so to speak which is based on the uh
siddharisa which is its own long
conversation from it's called siddhirab
shapsi he quotes this thing from weir i
don't know if he quotes the i don't
remember if he quotes the exact that
he's quoting from the shindikatan but
it's clear he's quoting the shame to cut
so now we have in a safer that be at
least in those years especially in the
situation world that's also a very
important safer that has this meaning
brought down now
moving back also in those years
and again i promised that eventually i
promised i believe already before that i
will get back to him in a special
episode but the hafla
in his panami office
i'm learning it one day and i see but
then i see that other people plenty
other people quote this says
so he's talking about his time and he
dies in 1805 although the safer is
printed from manuscript that represents
alma gold is bought it's printed only in
the 1820s
but we see that that flow dies in 1805
is talking about a minig that that
people were doing in his time and then
he goes on da fla has to a whole to
stickler to explain what's the
connection how he sees the connection
between this capital and
and the the kufa that we're saying
he does bring down
because of the uk the umayya that are
found in this it says
hashem's name is mentioned yugioh um 13
times in this capital now that is found
in the shame of cotton and many other
sources and kabbalah this is out of
sight for a whole its own story but as i
said nothing to do with me
about way above my page now
but if we're going
we're going further over here
is that the balatanya
what was not sure
maybe they didn't know
when exactly the first siddhar um of the
balatani was printed but that's some but
in recent years they actually printed a
facsimile of what they believe is the
first edition of the siddhar of the
balatanya which is in 180 which is 1803.
the reason why they can't say for
certain is because it doesn't have the
cover
of the original cover on it but it was
printed a facsimile edition this relates
to what's going on in the the the the
library being still in russia but anyway
they printed the facsimile edition a few
years ago and in here we find that he
brings down the meaning of saying la
david this is an early siddhara maybe
one of the earliest sudarm after
abshabzi
that has this minute of saying la david
um in ill but in the siddhara of the
baltania he does not bring the whole
reasoning behind it okay fine
i'm not
going into all different aspects of it
but we're
once you start once you get to the 1800s
um checking randomly in a few different
sedum i have come across a few different
sedum that has it okay
recently i was looking in the first
edition
of the siddhara of the nesivas where the
natives prince of
which hashem is going to be a
episode
um maybe in the next week or two all
about the nesivas
and he
in the siddhar which i don't know if
that means that he endorses the minik
but in the siddha that he printed in his
that was printed in his lifetime that
has his
it also says that they would say ludovic
okay
but all this is fine and very nice but
it's still not giving us an exp um how
it's becoming so um weird because sort
of after
as you get a little later in the 1800s
then it's found in most many many so
durham and as you get later and later
it's found everywhere what happens does
anything else happen to this to make it
um get after
so i believe and this is not necessarily
uh such a revolutionary kiddish at all
but the reason how this happens is up
till now
it's pretty much not in halachic
literature it's pretty much a few sedum
have it and these kabbalah sigulusvaram
have it and we have this this amazing
darshan in this dress shape or sharamela
has it but it's not it's not found in
halal
in this period of time
now the the truth is
interestingly enough there are not that
many halaqaram in the period of time
that we're talking about that really
should have it but the few that may be
on our chain that would have it don't
have it such as i would say i'll point
to the adam doesn't mention anything
about it
okay
but when you open up the mata ephraim
all of a sudden the mata frank talks
about it a bunch of times
mata friend says the following and this
is we'll start discussing it a little
more in depth right now is
then he talks about other aspects um
what about a day with music and he says
what about
um
then he talks about
which goes first all these are the type
of questions that i'm not dealing with
today
um but there are discussions about that
you mentioned the material
is reframed margolis
and i know that it's someone who
i don't like using the word about the
dylan but someone who you
have a
hero worship towards spent many many
months day years
um and we know
anyone who learns aloha during these
times opens the mate frame wanna tell us
very quickly how that becomes safer why
did he write
specifically on these topics anything
you want to add right now
yeah
okay so
so basically the story goes like this
anyone
and every i'm just even my r even my rav
he just began on past shabbos he was
talking about hulkhouse of el he goes
and right away he quotes a few different
mata frames
anyone who learns mishna brewer and
knows the mission brewer brings the mata
fry and cassette
so
over here
so first
and the
now this
this
figure of the frame is almost
what do i mean to say
he is very very wealthy he's an asking
of the city
um i once heard a schmooze
it wasn't a common thing such a bala bus
it was a refrain zamagos what do i mean
it wasn't such a common thing it wasn't
a bala bus that abs which we have today
barak hashem we have hash of a
balabathan giving shirum all over the
world we have hash of albatram writing
khashoggi's farm all over the world in
hebrew in english
that's
refined zamagos in a dar that was one
that was a tremendous incredible dar was
considered by everyone and what i mean
everyone i mean hasidim
lit facts
and even svardhan till today as one of
the godaily hadar of the kufa now i'm
not saying this islam okay
you know whatever i mean to say his
chuvas his swarm in his lifetime he's
been consulted he's on crazy
um
he has a crazy kesha with the different
of the ones that are older than him and
the ones that are his age
let's say going the people younger than
him or his age mamish we have the sam
cypher rebecca vager
the
legendary
which
everyone knows he has his fights with
him so to speak but they're not fights
they're they're tremendous
in learning with
with
not um any um even though people do like
to paint it to be some vicious galatians
verse litvax it's it's mama shamaratus
to say such a thing but it's not for now
and ripped like has a tremendous um
catcher with the refinements almost he's
he
he actually gets them the job
embroidered pretty much and then they
don't from beforehand such as the huda
is a young bucker in his teens he's
already corresponding with the udon big
gayer vanchales he has to do with the
shagasari a very close relationship with
richard berlin river fall hamburger and
many others so he's not just about the
boss he's balbasta put out many swarm
and and in all different areas as i my
term is he we're in his different swarm
he wears different hats
so in some swarm he's a paisake some
sorry as a makhadesh farm he's he's he's
a he's a crying chuvas he also
anyway he knew a lot and another thing
was very famous is that he had a massive
farm library he was expert in sperm
manuscripts he owned
and this plays out a lot of his things
now in 1834 after he dies he dies in
1828 tragically suddenly
um out of the blue marshmallow quicker
describes this and basically he puts out
this
massive monograph on tishrei called mata
freyam it doesn't deal with all aspects
of sukkah but it does deal with some
aspects of
el and rosh hashanah kipper is
incredible
now and it became accepted by everyone
what i mean everyone i mean
i believe have a say they're the alar
hasidim they
during these these periods of time
you'll see a lot of hasidim have it in
their taliz echo
and as i said
none other than the then the um
mishna brewer quotes and crusader and
that's the plastic of today of recent
years of the the lichfisher world
now basically
i'm not going to get into my records the
style of the safer of of this of the
safer and what's it coming from but
basically everything that has to do with
halacha that could possibly do he writes
out very clearly it's beautifully
written
a little poetic even
and he basically touches on everything
that could come up possibly in these
days and le david plays primarily he
talks about it about six times
throughout
the
safer so this afer becomes from 1834 and
onwards the safer of yom naran
and i would say this helped this is the
first stage this is the first um so to
speak place that has halachic discussion
of when to say it and he's now we're
moving away from the kabbalistic aspect
or the school aspect we say it now
there's going to be different questions
what do you do what um when do you say
it what about rich haider there's
marking all the different childhoods
that people love talk about out of you
and bring up survive from here and there
and this lure jose this way this this
way it's all starts from
zama goes in this safer so i would say
but but interesting is
he says
i was wondering what's going on what is
um could we trace it earlier in galicia
besides this forum so interestingly
enough
we know today
we have something that's called the lua
herzeg uh we have luke kashinsky in
america we have
hankin
and
it turns out that lucha is
much earlier it has not been traced
exactly how far back it is but in 1815
the famous masculine who shockingly was
very from but he was a vicious masculine
and at the same time he he had a vicious
hatred to hasidim even
over there in 1815 we see them saying
that to say the david now it's
interesting he wasn't pro kabbalah but
this minute was there uh because it's a
minigame and whatever and also
he had no reason not to put it in there
because at this time already it wasn't a
casitas
i bet it wouldn't have been in there but
hey these are those are side discussions
fast forward once we know that it gets
into the into the material this is
basically accepted it starts you find it
in all different
sudden the kit
has it gets the shock source is the
master of raim
and then you can find it in all
different places now just to say one
could about the mission brewer which i
don't have an answer to is that the
mission brew i keep on saying he has the
mata frame and he used the mata fine but
when you look in
mishna brewer
and
there is an answer to it we won't get
into right now but he says
he brings down we say um
okay he brings the whole quote how is he
safe say first source acronym
doesn't say it's mata frying so you'll
say maybe mission brew doesn't matter
fine literally the next piece he says
about the minig which people say to him
assign the whole to hillary over elo
where's the source mata frame so he has
the mata friend what's going on here
quotes
mata right so this obviously you have to
be bucky i don't know offhand but there
are people that have managed to be medic
and called thanks for tagging with shibu
and they can explain what what it is
okay anyway bottom line is
as part we could say
that
this is sort of what happened this is
the seder shantaef cocktail safe zahira
sharamelech
a few other
few other stops on the way but it gets
the mata frame once it gets to the mata
frame that's it it's it's everywhere by
that time already and then it's inside
okay
so this is part one
of
what the presentation is it seems like
you did a very
fear analysis
of proving that la david is not just
kabbalistic i just have to throw in
there i don't know why you keep on
saying that you're someone who's down
into kabbalah i know you gave your
address where you live you're scared
that people are going to be lining up at
your door to come to you for breakfast
but either way
um now it's already halachic and it's
there so we say it
um
i'm assuming you didn't just decide to
do this podcast because you found the
source um to say it
i'm sure there's other possibilities out
there that you want to maybe debunk
other
myths about david do you want to speak
about
oh so so before okay but now so
betharius
and this was another
um
piece of a puzzle that added me to get
into this to go down this rabbit hole of
david was the following
up till now i'm saying and as i said
it's not me that discovered the shame of
cotton there were people that suggested
the shame to have cotton over the years
one such person was verbs
but earlier even i have a list of
different people that realize that it is
the shantikatan but today to say very
very certainly 1706 is nothing earlier
what happens a friend of mine um dan
rabinowitz daniel rubino with daniel
daniel dan rabinowitz he's the founder
of what some people might know this farm
blog
and many years ago he wrote a small
piece about a safer
and this safer he he wanted to say could
show mamish
give us more of a period of time when
that it doesn't come from earlier than a
certain time because this safe would
have brought them what is he referring
to so
in
a few years ago
we're going back to um 2003.
someone in a brock put out a safer on
saying sheer show young
so ready then and this has been a
meaning especially in today is you don't
just put out a safer on the topic
alumnus to say for you try to find if
there's a
jakarta safer that's going to be
relating to your topic so somehow he
came across that there's a safer printed
in lublin
in
tough
lamid zion
now it's not clear if it's printed in
taflama zion it could be tough zion till
um tough members
now taflam and zion
is hebrew so how do we get that
translated into um english you'll have
to give me a minute or two and i'll tell
you the exact date while i'm talking
but
this is in
the sev in the 1670s
1677 it is and
basically what's the safer so this is a
person who survives tax attack which is
in the 1640s he's a nephew of a great
goggle at the period of time and we're
not going to get into the whole history
of the safer but it's called shire halo
view now watch your living
it's a safer which talks about the
capital one should say daily
yearly on shabbos to a certain capital
and weekday there were different
capitals that people would say besides
the young and everything like that
and
besides for all this when he talks about
his stuff so
first i'll give an example so we know so
he begins the safer we know uh paragala
if we talk about he talks about the the
sheer show y'all that we say fine very
good but then he shows what about myriff
so he says there was a minute to say
where does he get it from he brings you
down a source from it at the period of
time and then he shows a face that's a
hat so
he's has the following capital tell them
that we're saying
they would say before bark shaman he
brings down they would say mismark
which is
now what's interesting is he says when
he what do you say
we say daily and ashkenaz we say miss
moshe anyway obviously that's its own
rabbit hole to go down of miss marshier
when this happened when they get put in
the siddhar
and interestingly enough shockingly this
mismarshier is not in the siddhar in at
least all sudurum way way on it's also
more later than one would imagine okay
fine let's say after elena he says they
say people are saying mismar pavel
anyway this is a whole save for about
it's not a big safer it's a safe now
interestingly enough there's only one
copy of this safer survived it's during
this period in this rough period of time
going on
after that still and it survived in the
openheim it's in the oppenheim library
which is his own schmooze and somehow he
got a copy hebrew university does have a
copy of it and he got a copy and he put
it out with notes now what's significant
about it not only does it so that this
person goes ahead and he gives you
barricos what which kapitlahor said is
what he used to to get this he had
manuscripts he had all this farm at the
time this is after the result and he
quotes from the margaret obey series if
he had a manuscript democracy he quotes
many ar results he had siddhar rizal and
manuscript this is way before receiver
of shops that recorded in 1794. he has
other stuff for the result he has the
slaw he has the zayar he has a safer
kavanaugh kindly tower manuscript and he
has many other things
he has a rich library which is its own
discussion
what you see over here is but let's see
let's get to ello there's no mention of
saying this this would have this is this
safer's kill of encyclopedia on saying
to hillam which kapit look and he was
busy tracking it down from all the
sources that would have said it so let's
say someone's going to tell you there's
really a manuscript of diariza
he would have known about it
so the fact that till today we have
incredible discoveries with the siddhar
arizal and our resource discoveries has
been the past 50 years and even more
recently
that we can map it out thanks to the
incredible work of of of
avivi and everything else
and and we haven't found it there so you
can't come and say oh it's not reason
but we don't have it we we now have
thanks to the work of the habit shalom
from rubyakavello's macon and everything
with him and the manuscripts it's not
there anywhere and this is a person from
the so so now we could show you that
we're already breaking down the dates
because if it is safer 1670s and it
doesn't have
this um the dominant that's the theme of
the safer he would have tracked it down
he would have heard about it
so it's a cl this was the raya from this
good friend of mine dan rabinowitz that
it's it has to be it's going to be it's
going to be from the 1670s to the 1706
1707 from the shemitah
so now what's left is is a very short
period window of years that one has to
find the siddha or sedum that have it
and we have yet to find it now it could
be that it's before the shantikata why
we'll get to it but but this was
um why i'm saying with much more
certainty than has been said this this
raya the safer was very rare it was only
printed in as they said in 2003 okay
fine let's let's move on but we're are
there other possibilities you mentioned
so number one
there's a safer called safe our mustard
which is printed in 1671. you open it up
and it has the oven in there great now
besides there's a whole mystery behind
this siddhar but shemosh nazi has proven
that the editions where this helicopter
talks below david is taken from the safe
as a hero which we mentioned is printed
much later so it's not in the original
editions in the 17 to 1671 of it so we
knocked off that you don't have arrived
from there okay fine but as i said
already people like to tie this to that
result
so is there a way to tie this to that
result so it turns out there is and for
a long time this is how it was tied to
that result okay so another possibility
that's been suggested
and this is a very important suggestion
if it will turn out to be true is
we know that everyone knows that rizal
had one in the talmud of khan vital it
was a great talmud of his and he was
responsible for transcribing that
results thairu
recording it and whatever happened with
it now kai mccain was a talmud movie by
rokhan vital
wreath we have swarm of kaimaka in many
different farm and even recent years we
have a siddha of
but it turns out that in 1741 a yidra
babadi
put out a siddhar calling it shahir
rakhman
shah ratson and he says in the shower
and i quote
that this is taken from where from the
look
is and everything like that
so
if we could find in this siddhar 1741
that it and it's linking it now from
okay mclean to the arizona that will be
amazing and we open up this sydney
in the back of the sidder where it talks
about el and has against
the same piece of the shanks of cotton
could be found here so the 1706 it could
be is that now what happened you could
say very simple rabbenish
he got he stole the manuscript of
rokayama kain's materials that's really
from the arizal and that's what's going
on over here and that's how it's in the
back
but turns out
that we know that this siddhar is not
such a reliable sibling first of all the
siddhar the one the one of the
publishers involved with the siddhar
just took a lot of material from a safer
champion which we'll discuss shortly
but more than that is already a great
makuba from that time
who wrote a state from saita that was
recently printed from manuscript
moroccan mukubal writes that he cannot
rely on anything in this siddha
it's nothing to do with
it's not reliable so we already have
that this
loses out
it's
to say that in 1740 we have now getting
it back to that result
but we have but that's if someone was
alive then he wouldn't know this this
piece of manuscript that i'm quoting to
tell you that the siddhar is not
reliable from
is only printed by mayor benio in more
recent years
so not necessarily is someone going to
know so it's not so it's not fear if we
find that and we take a do fine
different safari including rebecca for
careful way back and say for sure it's
villa he traces
where is it coming from
from
problem is like this
today we know as i said
my when i'm
giving this
presentation today it's based on what we
know today so today we know
we have requirements in there it
survived we have many manuscripts of it
and none of the manuscripts there's this
whole long piece that's in the shaint of
qatar which is now also found in the
siddhis
up here
so
and there's a whole tumble about the
siddhar to figure out what it is
published from manuscript the first
volume
and
there based on what the the editor at
the time he researched different
manuscripts to figure out what he holds
is authentic blah blah blah and he gets
to it and he and he and he concludes
um
so in the manuscripts that he looked at
does not have this whole piece but
strangely enough and i cannot explain
this
in the siddhar that's printed only a few
years ago less than 20 years ago
it does say it does seem to be that they
that there was a minig in and it's
brought into some city of
now it's not in the city
that they would say david um they would
say le david after davening
so
but it's not but it's not that but the
point over here is it's not el it's not
rosh hashanah or
and it's not at all the whole reasoning
behind it which is the kawalistic reason
that i said this right chain the cut and
talks about maricos
now he he says this as a lawyer he says
but it doesn't appear in any of the
manuscripts i don't know why he put it
in because he's saying that this siddhar
is based on what he calls authentic
manuscripts so it means is in some
somewhere somehow it got put in to
sailor david it doesn't say that it's
the same african-american fishery so
it's it's just even after everything's
said and done this
uh edition of the sitter makes it a
mystery because not everyone reads the
fine print that reads the introduction
sees what's going on and we know from
the actual sitter it's not there
okay
so that but what's significant is that
there's no it's not the shame of captain
is the source and it's not
from darius okay now again as i said
earlier part of the way we're able to
say this with certainty is because we
know so much more about that reason we
have so much more material manuscripts
and manuscripts have been discovered
printed published it's not in any okay
fine
now we move on and we have another
possible early source and from this
source people have um
quoted
that we have a another great early
source and that is
that it appears to be
the the big shul in austria
it says as follows it seems there was a
plaque
and it had different interesting and
haggis and one of them says
if we could figure out when this plaque
is from
rashalam ali israel
the now
someone sent this plaque with all the
other hanhagus that it said there to
that deres
and it seems he was told that it's from
takanus and hanhagus from the time of
the martial
eventually he sends this in it's printed
with with the the darius wrote harass on
all these takanas
and it seems that the belief was that
this goes back to the marsha these
attacking martial okay but history
checking into this so first of all in
general it's its own very big subject
someone wrote a whole doctorate about it
all these insults are tracing far back a
lot of different things where there are
signs up in schools we find today a lot
of times you have made in the rabbana
and all different things so certain
berkshire may some schools have it up so
it seems already for a few hundred years
that was put up
by um for
easy we could think of easy reasons for
it but
this particular thing it's not it seems
it's not that far back from the marshall
historian of the city from much later on
who knew
that austria a person from austria
writes all about it says it's not it's
not coming back because if it was this
we would have a source from the because
the martial is there the schloss there
the
martial is even there even further so it
would be great we have a luak
on the wall recording of it that that's
gonna that's giving us all different
hugging so the answer is it's not as
early back at some point in time they
decided to print the different takanas
of the kahila so it's very possible and
they did not know already when this
person wrote his safer
um he printed it in um
the late um in the late after 1900
already but he was he had a lot of
archive material of the city and
everything they didn't know when it was
but they definitely knew it wasn't that
far back so we cannot say that it's from
the martial and why am i now with what i
began earlier saying the whole story
with the staff for shirya lavium that's
printed in the 1670s if it was in the
martial
it would have made it in here because
this is ashkenazi safer the same region
traveling and everything so it would
have been known he would have definitely
quoted it he would have quoted and said
he it's a good chance he would have said
by the way the marshal he would have
known about david and as he said he
doesn't know anything about this above
it so it's funny that they went out of
their way in austria and they're talking
about our shot to say we don't say the
other no i'm saying with governor any
where you talk okay
now you mentioned earlier in the
introduction that someone wrote wrote
into you is it a sinig or whatever
so this gets to um one of our
this will be one of the last parts of
today's presentation that is as follows
this is a safer and safer is called
khandus yamam
and the safer kansas yum is printed it's
printed a few years after
the um
i think it's 17
uh one minute it's in tough sadik alef
so that will take it
to
the later 1700s a few you know to about
20 years after
the shantiv got them
and what happens is this
saferhamdusyamim
also has the meaning of saying the david
so let's so what happens is like this so
let before
we go look and see what it actually says
in the
so let's just give a drop of background
what's going on over here and what would
that be if it's from the feminism okay
so number one is
it's a big question is is the safe
alhamdulillah to say it in prosthetic
terms good for the jews or bad for the
jews if a meaning is found there doesn't
mean we shouldn't do it or shouldn't do
it
so this has been a discussion that has
is endless endless endless literature
articles subject
now one of the coolest is we don't know
who wrote
but what happened it's already rebecca
them then accused them of being
something affiliated with whatever with
with shopsite suite
once that happens once that gets mixed
into the equation
for fallen if your mini is there and
once someone tells you oh it's really
going to be there
bad bad luck for the juke bad it's bad
for the jews and that meaning today
might get a problem
the problem is like this we know now
much more about the um
now even though recently it seems a
friend of mine might have discovered
figured out once and for all who the who
this author is that's a different
schmooze
but let's not go there
la maisa in this period of time in the
1700s
and this is after the shame to cotton
what do we know about do people care
about the safer or not so amazing you'll
find everywhere
uh you could find a long list of people
swarding a daily menu
they're using the safer even the village
camp the vulnerable sun had the safer it
seems the film the garden seems new to
safer and other
dialum affiliated with the vulnerable
quote stuff from the safer so the lit
facts plenty of early hasidim were into
this safer also
what happened what triggered
not for now but bottom line is let's say
we'll go in the let's just give two
sources one is
in in
in a library a listing of a library of
the scholen velajan in the 17 i think
seven in 1700 in the later later part of
the 1700s
young was on the shelf
velazquez
similarly just this week a friend of
mine butler sent me a write-up about
the library of yeshiva
where's the mystery this mysterious
library what happened with it did the
nazis really destroy it or not it's been
discussion for years some wrote up all
about it and they started collecting
um this farm that have appeared somehow
somewhere or another that from the
library of khashoggi has a stamp inside
it appears sometimes on auctions and
collections so i'm looking through the
list and all of a sudden i see him
sitting on the shelf
okay anyway we could give many many many
many sources not the point point is that
if it's there
um fast forward forget about those
sources it might be a problem so now
i'll i'll just um say one story with
this
about 12 13 years ago is by the great
gain
person but also a great mukbal
and a litfak at the same time of shreya
the blitzky
and someone asked him
what is the story with the khandesyam
could you look at it could you use it or
not so sribitsky was sitting in his room
with that's filling on kia do you work
film the whole day he says go look
what's on my desk we go into the room we
see on the desk is an ancient copy of
hindusyam this was an el he goes how i
does not a yantif that i don't go into
without learning to say for him
this is where i heard my own my own ears
saw it and heard it from rashoi
dablitsky in his swarm he uses the khan
this year
um okay anyway bottom line is so if it's
in the comments
is it good for the jews or baptists as
they say
so it seems that that once it gets there
for some people it's over the minute
could have no has no hope and that's
sort of what happened certainly
in later years
they stopped saying it
now i come across a letter this is
quoted in the literature
um a letter is printed in the 1930s
a person writing and he says as follows
talking about la david we say like this
we don't say la david
why not
the khaladvar mehlu
and then he talks about a different
feeler that we say that the master frame
handles and others they didn't realize
it's coming from the canvas
says what about amir david
that i knew that
would not say it did
and he has a the raptured sir didn't say
it why not because of this
is from
then he says i was in 1927 by some
others in poland uh nicola from the ida
kadesh and he said
that the reason why that he wouldn't say
it is because of the safer hindus it's
in that safer okay he says also
do say it
and i've seen myself many different
caesars do say it so the answer is they
didn't know this letter says they didn't
know that the macaroon of this is from
the says they said once again
it's a problem okay
vivaldi is it but the problem is and and
now if we fast forward in recent years
even
the people have written in in in this
forum
don't say it as we know sans didn't say
it so we can't say it
okay great
but let's understand this for a second
is it really independence
the answer is
let's open up
we open up the candice young
and if you recall in the beginning i
quoted a whole long russian
from the shamet of cotton about the
minigame and the reasoning behind the
meeting
and he says when to say it and all
different things and now i'm going to
read you a line and you tell me if this
is what it says
now
nothing personal this is not at all the
minig that's found in the shame of
cotton this is not the minig that we're
talking about the whole time
because yes he had this minute to say it
and the reasoning is taco this
kabbalistic reason the eponymous brings
them it's also found the shame the
cotton but now first of all is the
shaint of cotton sprinter before
recent literature has shown that young
used the shame of cotton and many other
such swarms he was a malarked some
people would use a more grubber term of
a plagiarizer maybe it's not a group of
turn that's his own conversation but the
point is that if you open
and look inside it's not the minig at
all of ours that is which the shame to
cut and says to say from when from l
till simcha's torah
and
two times in the day when to say this is
not what transgender says you can look
so the answer so it's very interesting
that you see them at least late because
what what's also interesting is like
this the part of the office doesn't who
will discuss his hasidic origin or not
but we'll go for this episode that is he
has no problem with it
and as i said the cedar of shab scene
1794 also the siddhar one of these
they have no problem with it so they
pack a dome nodes come this yamaha
later on we know conjunct it's
they didn't have problems and it turns
out these later people they never saw
the kanjim it be once it gets a bad name
and it's
it's not only minute can see them they
won't certain
especially they won't say okay but it's
obviously a very big arrhythmias in the
world what's the story with with um
there was a back and forth about it in
the v in various articles in the best
kaivits a bunch of years back with
interesting stuff about aquaponics
the bottom line is that it's not
chemistry but it's uh but it's but shyla
is like this okay but we know i i what i
do not doubt is this makar and that sans
hasidim and other kasim i've heard from
different people and i'm sure people
have come across it don't say it
so first of all is interesting um and i
come across this recently and people it
seems to be a very known thing
shop sites people
without getting into as i refer you to
for example the chatter the nakhi's farm
chatter all the different lectures on it
all different things that he did but one
of the things was safer film did play
prominent
in what we now have from anogus
um that were published and saying
different things especially is
aleph
listen to this was when was it said by
sabatians three times a day even in some
sources says the night to be yehuda in
achuva
okay
i'm reading and he says that that that
you have in your city that they say
after the share show you ms
supposed to say
nemo
the person who wrote him also mentioned
that this minute was going on then so
there is something interestingly enough
you say there is some what i'm trying to
do over here is there were
right to be suspicious of capital hillam
being added in suddenly at the end of
dominique and it had connection to
chapstick's fee
such as
a capital zion i've yet to discover and
i don't think there is i did look that
it has a significant thing in the uh
shops movement or and further on
looking at it even from kabbalah from it
doesn't seem to be that it should have
any any anything about it and
we now have a lot of material of of of
the
of what to hill the capital film that
they were into and it doesn't come up on
the list so i
bottom line is it i would not have i
don't i cannot link it to
the sebatian customs and i also cannot
link it to the kamziyam because once i
open up the comments it doesn't say what
it does