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Tisha B'Av: Sugya of Kamtza Bar Kamtza - The Misplaced Humility of Rav Zecharia Ben Avkulas
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Transcript
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we're going to be discussing today the
gemaran gittin
bays
if you should have the sheets
this is a famous sugi of kansa barcamsa
however there are many many many
questions on every line you can ask
questions but we're just going to be
reading the gemara a little bit quickly
until we get up to one niku the one line
that i want to focus on so you may have
a lot of questions the point is not
necessarily the whole story it's one
specific line in the gemara so let's get
the background from the two dots on the
bottom of mohammed bays
what does the plastic mean
fortunate is a person who's always
afraid
but um
but someone who hardens his heart will
fall on evil what's that supposed to
mean you're always supposed to be afraid
right who said have no fear
right
well well toys this explains what this
is referring to is that a person has to
be afraid of the repercussions of their
actions person sometimes says you know
big deal i do this out there do that of
era what could happen already person has
to always constantly think about what
the repercussions of their actions are
and the gemara says you know this is
referring to three
instances in jewish history number one
because of the episode of camps and back
hampshire jerusalem was destroyed
at times
because of a rooster and a hen
the torah malca the mountain of the king
was destroyed and i sack of the wrist
book because of the side of a carriage
khara beta beta was destroyed
there was a guy we'll call him beryl
his friend was kamsa obama barcamp so
his enemy was barkampson
all that sudah so he made a party maybe
even made us see him
um
he told his attendant
zilli kanta go invite kamsa invite mr
kamsa ozal
so they're at the party
barrels looking around the party at all
his friends and lo and behold
he sees that barakamsa was sitting
back hunter was sitting at the party
i'm late not this
i'm late
misty let's see
you are my enemy in other words that man
referring to you are the enemy of that
man referring to me you're my enemy
my boss taka what are you doing here
come get up pike get out
right get out in other words go fly a
kite
go jump in the lake
right skedaddle
i'm aller he said
since i came shopkin
let me be
and guess what i'll pay for my meal you
don't want me to be here i'll foot the
bill for my email
i'll pay for what i ate and what i drank
um he said no over my dead body he said
get out of here why no
um
i'll pay for half the party
i'll even pay for the ice cream
i'll pay for the schnapps every half the
party
he said get out of here knock save the
other he picked him up
booked me
he stood him up the apk he kicked him
out
he said don't let the door close behind
you
i'm relay amma he said i don't
understand rabbi so-and-so was at this
party and rabbis that and that was at
the party and the admiral was there and
nobody said boo
nobody said boo obviously they approved
of what happened to me
omari said
the rabbis with their vladimir they
didn't protest
so we see they obviously were pleased
with what happened by the way the
marshall says that the person who made
the party was very powerful they were
not able to speak up okay
be resume
he went and he ate cortza he ate winks
he ate winkies he ate wings what does
that mean he ate wings
where do we have that
where did that statement kevin here
danielle they tattled he ate wings he
said lost in heart because usually when
you speak washing hara you say it over a
good meal you make yourself comfortable
you sit down you lean back you sip some
tea
you eat some winks
and
why winks also the good bali washing
hara
they don't have to say anything they go
right they know how to motion and wink
at the guy without saying anything
they're already a big ballast
but
yeah yeah the news yeah oh
okay so
um
he went to the caesar and he said mardu
bach yehudai
the jews are rebelling against you my
latest caesar said me amar
who says
send them a carbon
they went and they uh sent
an igla tulsa okay a cop from the third
born
a half of the third bird how do you know
equilibrium absurd the third born cat is
the fattest is the most
the strong the juiciest meat
the first one you know the mother sister
is the lord there's another
the third developed is this softest meat
it's the softest meat
no you're saying that if it grew up
if it grew a third that's the softest
smell oh okay i hear it
says don't say that
like that right okay does it not to say
that upset okay but if
some say like that all right okay
so anyway
on the way they're bringing the animal
shadow mumma bar kamsa
but my professional opinion is that a
cadre can only be diagnosed through a
microscope through us uh and uh
it's not a minimum
it's not a membership
okay
that could be developed from dramatic
awesome the rajma says how do you cause
a cataract
a specialist would know how to incur
inflict a certain kind of wound which
would engender a cataract right okay
so anyway so what's the big deal about
this because there's a thing our
guardian allowed to bring carbinous to
the base of mcdonagh yeah yes our
grandma had to bring carbonus in their
backyard yes what's the difference they
bring a carbon in their backyard
it can't be a machus or eva it can't be
missing a limb
but it could have a mum
but if they send it to the design
it can't have a mum
so he made a mum which normally if a guy
would bring the carbon in his backyard
it would be uh offerable and now this
mom is only something that we're we're
bothered by
because even though it is oscillating a
carbon that's about mum
but for the sake of peace peace
you gotta do it you gotta do
so they thought to bring the carbon
ah my lahu ribs
you know if people see what you're doing
in the basement
that you're being macro about mum
then people are going to think the wrong
khalakha and they're going to think you
could be mac of about them
so they said who knows that's the
covering that that is doing no one else
will know
well there was one client that inspected
it and there are all kinds of oh you
swore into secrecy
no situation
is
so they they did two things
two negative things
no one spoke up
and they didn't uh and they made them
and they made a move not they no well
come to me
the objection is that people are going
to say
malay moomin craven so they mixed the
idea
[Music]
also you know
brought the animal into the base amita
she brings it to the cayenne so what are
you going to do who's going to know
barcamps is going to tell everyone look
the kahamim offered about mum what do
you mean who's going to say that hamsa
is going to say they should
[Music]
why
not i'll try as i yes i thought not i
thought oh you can understand that's
what you thought
you can't even say
something so they could go out uh you
swirl and go with miss bayern no yes sir
[Music]
of the king but couldn't they roll right
the um what do you mean guys
you know why couldn't they override i'm
not sure what kind but they could offer
cabanas
yeah why
how
okay so they thought they they served as
harry and copeland said young rebellion
movement craven they got him his bath
so now they said you know what barcanta
is putting us in a very precarious
situation he's twisting our hand
to offer this karma let's just kill my
cancer
we'll just kill him because he's a write
date which is a halacha sover the
mcdelay
um they wanted to kill back outside of
lima because he's going to go and tell
i'm aloha
rebel
mumbai people are going to think that if
you put a mum in a carbon it's
just me
fine and they they listen to
rabzikaibrichos serves
raise two objections
objection number one is don't offer the
carbon because you're a rebellion
movement craven objection number two is
don't kill back hamsa because young ru
mata mumba kachimi haring
amarav
and the sanusa sheriff
and caused the temple to be burnt
vaguely
and exiled us from our land because this
brought on the onset of
myths
it wasn't
yeah give us that but it was this guy on
the kayak
no but he appears in the midrash i i
don't know if he appears elsewhere in
shots
but he does appear on the mattress on
the words in such a big level that they
would listen to him i mean yeah yeah he
was
the original
how do you know what he was if he's not
mentioned anywhere else weasel what i
mean what do you name any rebbe and
shasta's now
does anybody have the original the other
this is it yeah he's a tanner he's a top
you take two from this one no one
one second who took the other pile here
okay
the question is like this
we want to know what did we even of who
was right was
right
what does that mean good question what
is this why does it mean the humility of
the kaiba says
was too humble
what was the humility
that he tolerated by concept
so one second let's let's try to
understand this
first of all
who was correct the rep was absolutely
right or not no no no
the conclusion of the gemara is
criticizing him
saying his his uh misguided animals
caused the race to make this to be
destroyed
in other words the rabbano's initial
reaction of bringing the carbon
was correct
and then their other reaction of killing
backhand so it was correct
why was that correct let me talk why is
that correct why was it correct to bring
the carbon but it's an israeli rice
that's imaginable
no to be macro of the carbon
because of
because jewish lives are on the line you
should have done it it's worthwhile to
violate and esther division that was
what the held
so what did riv
you could be
uh
you could be right right exactly
to save a life
you could be
to save a life
and this is saving
israel or or many jews
what did the kaiban of kulas hold why
did rab zakhari bin of kulas
he said no but what was he worried about
your people will say ballet movement
craven
that people will misjudge and think that
you could bring a moon a carbon with a
man fine wonderful but jewish lives are
on the line
okay
he didn't hold up the fascists so now it
winds the winds up we can't bring any
club on it now again what did
you ask maybe to the understanding
no he helped me you have an answer to
this question
of course he held things in my hand yes
he helped us
yeah but i was talking before
yeah that's right
that
yeah
he wouldn't have said that his humility
was the cause he was saying
out now he made a mistake
and that mistake
[Laughter]
that caused him to have this bias in
making this mistake in allah and you
were explaining so again the granted is
i'm not there
there's certain things that are not up
to debate here
the what what's not affirmative
skyrockets was wrong but yeah concludes
his anivis is misguided i need his
cousin to make a mistake but i want to
know if
what was his position who cares if
people are going to say bali moom and
kraven but jewish lives
are you allowed to make a phone call if
somebody needs hat solo yeah
are you of course you're allowed to
desecrate hawaii to save life so what
was the question of course thinking
and you explained what it was first
important
when you do we put on the light or you
can make a phone call yeah this is a
one-time thing yeah but if you're gonna
do something which ladies is going to
keep making a virus because they're
going to think that you can do with the
moon carbonus that's maybe more severe
and that's why he uh even though it's
only a love
even though it's not yeah
okay so let's let's take let's analyze
this there's a a very famous yamcha
shilomah last time we called the
amsterdam there's a very famous
amsterdam what's going on above the
camera the commerce is like this
is
the roman government sent two officers
to the comments and they said
teach us their torah
yeah
teach us your time
so the the roman government sent two
messengers to the israel and they said
teach us your torah
so taisus asks how could the ham comply
right the next words are karu the shanu
vishileshu they taught them once they
taught them twice they taught them three
times tysos asks how were the ham
allowed to teach these roman officers
tara you're not allowed to teach a guy
tyra
of course this was uh
so twice this gives two answers number
one when the government says teach us
torah you teach them torah you don't
have to risk your life
not to violate the sin of teaching god
in taiwan yes it's a big idea to teach
tyra if you want to go around to
the world and teach uh
marcus or
to in colleges to us
it's awesome i say how could they do it
their lives are on the line they're not
required to give up their life fine
that's number one number two imami also
asks from gay rim taisus says these guys
they came to scott masqueraded as gay
room they said we're jewish fine
says the gemara
so they taught them ganshas
and the said you know
it's beautiful
but i have we have one correction they
said um
we investigated
and it's true
except for one halacha what's the
halacha
my rim because you guys say shar shall
you start
potter if the jews car crashes into a
garisha car your potter
right
that if a jewish car if you damage a guy
you're potter and
shar shall kanani
but a ghost animal going
so the game said we don't get it
the torah says um
right you can't have it both ways if you
if
are like you didn't
so then we should only pay we should be
higher you should be higher if you go
gorgonium and if are not like you
didn't so then they should be putter if
they damage us
when it says rayhu
it means daffodil so then you guy that
damages a jew should be potter and if
ray was laughed after so then a jew that
damages the clown you should be hayev
fine
that's the gemara the gemara says that
the learned taira and there was
one thing they weren't masculine to
says the yamcha soma
i don't understand
these
are giving shirt to the gayam
why'd they have to tell them this
why didn't they skip that subject why
did they say
okay the details of axes are beyond the
scope of today's lecture
or weren't they skipping entirely i mean
the gallium they didn't have art school
gamaras so they were subject to whatever
the
teaching them skip their topics
apparently
the game they pressed them they said
what's the
jew goes again
in order to save jewish lives
why when the said to the jews when
a god igor is a jew what's the halacha
are you allowed to lie to save your skin
of course
so why did they go why were the
such big sadiq that they
they should have made up a bubba mice so
when it came to this
did they do that when they wrote this
they changed no they didn't okay good
question we're going to get to that
awesome
no and the gemara magillo and tao mai
commissioned
yeah
so says they read so yamsha shomo asks
what were these
thinking
why do they have to say the whole truth
says the amsterdam you know what we
learn from here
look at number three
even in a place of danger you can't
distort the halacha
what do you have to give up your life
you have to give up your life
you're obligated to give up your life
for this what does it say this nine
years
ah it's not one of the three
there's nothing that could get under the
skin of the gallium more
they're allowed to change
where are they all out of change how
they change the lockers over the years
we've changed we've changed no we'll see
we're never allowed to change
so the answer
and give up jewish lives
not to be a kuiper yes we gave up the
whole nation no not the whole nation we
mean the whole nation we're talking
about cops i'm not talking we're not
talking about cancer
one second one second
part of idolatry right the rambam learns
right if some
if a person is a person
allowed to uh is a person
allowed to save his life by saying i
don't believe the tar's men are
shamayim no
well which one of the big three is it
it's included in kfira that's creeper
it's kira so in other words
this is a very big
changing a minor myth on the torah
is under the is under the umbrella of
fira right maybe that that's what you're
trying to say before
it's fira
so therefore they had to answer the
truth
our pms
because for them to say that the
is a guy that damages a jew is
or a jew that damages a guy right
for them to say a guy that damages his
path or a jew that damages a guy
if that would be a distortion of the
that is kephirah
okay so obviously if you teach that to
it to a year
and you change it
but if you teach it to a guy who cares
between you and me
that they came as they they came maybe
so they would not let me ask you a
question
when they were writing to say the torah
can i get an answer for my question yeah
so what
the answer is you can't misrepresent the
tyrant anyway give it to a guy even to a
guy
that's not
it is clear why why do we have a
question are you allowed to say
are you allowed to say you're a
christian to save your life just but
even though you know you're not
they did the muranos did no it's
they were wrong they were wrong they
were wrong they weren't allowed
now we understand why they did it even
we
what if you bow down to the buddha and
you say oh god that was one thing if i
say to you
you can't say it
is distorting
misrepresenting the torah in any way
is clear
and you have to give up your life
they changed the torah
so it gives two very interesting answers
on the second coming either
they had viral
hashem gave them license to do it
he says
and also
they didn't distort
any halachas
all they did is they changed the
language
they changed the language flow instead
of voracious bar like him i like him
barbara voracious so it wasn't that they
didn't do that yeah they did they did no
no they didn't change that they changed
the wording in order not to offend tamai
but this is the principle yamcha soma
you can't actively misrepresent allah
obviously you know mr nathan is jumping
on me that's why i want to apply it to
uh
anything
that
what was his position
that of course jewish life is on the
line and it's not right
a carbon the carbon has a moment so
let's be marker of the carbon for sean
on the other hand what's the difference
how do you know there's a hylic between
that isn't that what the amsterdam was
saying you're allowed to put cloud
you're still in jeopardy
not to misrepresent the aleppo but there
were no other tanonian that how hell
different opinions would say actually
apparently it was a very difficult
question nobody listen to him right from
from malcolm
the beginning of the morning says
he goes into whatever
yeah even to save claudius
okay okay that's very good but that's um
it could be a different channel
no he's uh signing ourselves above the
camera that um someone who has to go to
the in marcus
if when the right seth runs away to the
arie miklot
let's say he's like the general of
kaiser like venezuela is he allowed to
leave to save claudia swell
no no
there there's a different reason by the
way
you want to say the reason is because
he's misrepresenting why is he
misrepresenting
doesn't make a difference oh you think
there's no difference okay but but by
calm but by them saying that the kimbora
braces they also
misrepresented the torah how are they
allowed to no it was a different type in
the process no
it's not a different type in the
beginning it's not a different type god
created in the beginning instead of in
the beginning god created you but it
means something else no it means
it means it means that god wasn't in the
beginning no that's what they would have
thought so we touched it god created in
the beginning god created it
but it's still not exactly the same we
still can't say that
i've been of course held is like the
amsterdam that they're misrepresenting
why
because the amsterdam is talking about a
case for the
go ahead
and give a shear
that a guy that damages the jew is
higher even though it's not
but the comment by being macro of the
carbon the base of mikdash
they're not actively promoting uh a
wrong halacha they're not saying wrong
it's just people are gonna think from
their actions and they could come out
and say give a that we're doing
this only for sure however i want to
point out
that with moisha feinstein in a chuva in
an unrelated issue
extends the yamcha slo-mo
then not only are you you're not allowed
not only do you have to give up your
life not to actively misrepresent the
torah you're you have to give up your
life not to do an action from which
people may derive right
what's the case
you ready for this is the married man
allowed to wear a wedding ring
so now we're not now we're not we're not
actually that's not the shyla
the shiloh is bombering
there are some
at a wedding are you allowed to have a
dual ring ceremony
what's the dual-ring ceremony the
husband gives the wife the ring and he
says harey on the caduceus look at that
and then the wife gives the husband the
ring and says
dashas
says
it's an israel
and not only that you have to be moist
or nephesh not to do
it why
says it maisha
give the ring afterwards first of all
he doesn't discuss that he doesn't give
a ring an answer
one second one second
says the motion is also to do this
number one
since this is something that do
at their weddings they have a dual ring
ceremony
why do they let me go
why do gaiam do it
because it's there she does that they do
it so therefore for us to mimic that
would be
um
right um
even if they're not doing it
even if they're doing it because they
have a certain
to do
even if it's not a violation of hugo
assembly you still shouldn't do it at
the wedding why
because it says it much this is
analogous to the gemaran shabbos and not
be a dollar that it used to be when they
went to the mikvah they went to making
these slimy rivers
and afterwards what you got to do
take a shower so everybody sees you go
into the slimy river
and then you clean yourself off with
your you know ivory soap and people say
it's not the slimy river it's the soap
it's the it's the shower
so people started only taking showers
so as a gazera that people shouldn't
think the shower is an attire
it's the same thing with the dual ring
ceremony
if people are going to see the woman
giving the husband the ring they're
going to think that's theater that's the
second that's the last thing being done
that's right the woman gives a ring then
you break the glass so people are going
to think that's another important part
of marriage and then they're going to
come to think that's the only important
part of marriage so the same way that
said you can't take a shower after a
mikvah
they would also probably say a woman
can't give the husband the ring aye the
comment didn't say that and we can't
make up new gazeros says
it's the exact same gezera oh it's not
eden
it's actually another thing
there's a bigger problem with it
and that is the
that if people are going to go to a
wedding and they're going to see the
woman give the man a ring
and people are going to think that
that's part of the conduction
so you're misrepresenting the dinum of
the torah
you have to be moist or nephesh not to
misrepresent the dino tower i the color
is not giving a drusha i want everyone
to know that i'm also part of the
marriage ceremony it's only people who
are unlearned who are deriving it from
their that's all part of the israeli
amsterdam that not only you now that i
actively misrepresent the tara says
look in number four
who is
love it's a loud and then he says
to change
what problem would have emerged if
would have darshan that if you damage
you have to pay them
is that violating the torah to pay them
money anyway even though your father no
so why couldn't
him for the sake of shalom say even
though you're a technical partner give
them the money anyway but the tourist
says they're not tired
they're changing the law fine you can
give it it's not it's not a kill what's
the cocoa says the cocoa is
you're changing the truth you're
changing you're misrepresenting the
halal even though you're not so he says
he says
in other words
says don't darshan that
is wrong just give them the money
the answer is if you're going to give
them the money from that action people
are going to derive
your evolution so then we could apply
very simply that what is the event
if you're going to be macro of the
carbon and based on
even though you're not announcing that
is bali movement craven people are going
to think bali movement craven and you're
misrepresenting
and that's
so i think we've done a good job in uh
defending
us
well obviously rebecca doesn't agree so
why was the kaibab kulas wrong
is focusing on what was his majesty it's
not modesty
it's his maybe his lack like you asked
before maybe it's his lack of knowledge
of the
but as far as we're concerned right now
you know he got it right
maybe there's a printer error yeah
where
jack
was switched so if you change the noon
to the vote it's a bonus
[Music]
that
[Laughter]
is very interesting
we find
that this is this is a very big hitters
first of all that a person has to be
moister and finished not to misrepresent
in other words if somebody would tell
you go give a shirt
that you don't have to wash negovassa in
the morning
absolutely different that's true
so what would right otherwise he's going
to kill a hundred jews would you be
allowed to give the share
no you can't mess with representative
we find a very interesting tube in the
night of you there
what's the tuva
it's not on the sheet unfortunately
there was a woman
there was a city being captured by
and they were going to murder all the
jews in the city and there's a very
beautiful woman there and she went and
she seduced the head of the of the
garish army she was masana with him and
in the meantime everyone escaped
and they asked another did she do the
right thing or did she do the wrong
thing
problem
so soon placement said she did the right
thing to save the city and call yourself
sounds like that's the people and it
sounds like esther that's what esther
did exactly what esther did
they said the major said she never had
relations with him
but uh he punched us she did right okay
but gemara said she did so says that
she did the wrong thing
why
because whenever it's your horizon
doesn't matter how many jews you're
saving
right
hi
if the woman is proactive and she goes
out of her way she's not going alone
so what about esther says
to save the entire classroom
it's different oh so
why he couldn't say that
every single jew is in danger huh yeah
of course how every jew is in danger
every jew in the whole world the jews
and uh who didn't come back the jews and
bubble were in danger yeah
all right no digitally no you don't know
what the council would have done so now
we're learning a rule
that in an
you have to give your life doesn't
matter how many jews are going to be
destroyed unless it's all of khali
israel
it was really awesome so one second one
second and how about in the times of the
yama yes
esther was saving all prizes how about
in the time zone there were jews in
europe that wasn't part of his kingdom
no they weren't no they said no there
were no he wrote all the words
how about the times of the answer
why does the yam show say you
have to be mice and efforts not to
misrepresent
i they were putting many jews in in uh
in danger
the answer is
many jews but uh many jews you have to
give up your life even if it means same
engine how about counsel
so to say that the entire claudius was
in jeopardy
you can't say that we don't find that
the romans rule the kippah
but we do find a different shuva you
ready for this
the um
in the times of the khida there was a
city in aarhus israel a city in arizona
was saved and they asked if they're
allowed to say hello
and said no oh why because you could
only say how else
if all of cloudy soil was safe
not if it's only a minority class or a
small segment or
so that they asked so this asset
satellite
forget makusha
that when the base has mktosh is in
jeopardy
it's considered the life of all claudius
when the base hashes and window it's a
matter of the baseline mcdosh
about cancer
and you're under roman rule
and the romans were out against the same
gosh you're jeopardizing the basal
mitosis which is
to take on your shoulders this sock
that even though in 99.9 percent of the
cases you're never allowed to
misrepresent aloha what is the one
limited case you're allowed to
misrepresent
now you have to make a big decision
is the base hamiktash halachically
consider like you gotta step up to the
plate have groice of places and take on
your shoulders
this awesome responsibility to say this
is a hierarcha this is a different
circumstance under these circumstances
you have to mystery represent
me
who am i to say such a thing
who am i you think i'm so great to be
able to take upon myself this great
responsibility to say this calls for
hirasha that this is different than the
german baba kama in baba kama they were
not allowed to misrepresent the
harassment so in this case in this case
i'm going to say that i'm the god of
adar and say this is different
who am i i don't feel worthy for the
tasks
the humility of
us he should have taken about himself
the responsibility to say this is not
like the young shalom
who is meek
and uh feels he's not worthy for the
occasion and doesn't want to take
that he wasn't carrying on because he
refused to go to parliament he kept on
saying me
kara should do it he's the god of door
yeah yeah look who creates
god tells you to do something you
he doesn't say this whole thing he
doesn't bring in the amsterdam that says
he just says this calls for
look
look over here in the middle of the
piece behind you this is
under these circumstances
it would have been permitted to destroy
the kingdom argument
they would have done the right thing
he's running after khalifa
for ula
he didn't muster the gods he didn't have
what we call the guy with the kadusa he
didn't have the necessary gumption
you know what are they going to write
about me and you know the jewish this
and the jewish that and this paper and
that paper and all the editorials
they're going to say i've been the wrong
wimpy
limpy he's better than anybody you ever
know
right
he was afraid they would suspect him
by russia he didn't have the gumption to
say this
case
before it wasn't russia it wasn't time
for us right it was the wrong time
he felt he's not counted among the
and because of this concern that he
raised and maybe the other
did not have sufficient power to
overrule him
is a very important lesson
you know people say oh it's only a small
little haraha for the sake of peace you
know even among other jews yeah for the
sake of peace we'll overlook
when it comes to misrepresenting
you have to be moist or nephesh not to
misrepresent an iota
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