OU LIVE - ep 009 - Zvi Gluck, Dr. Shana Frydman

my name is rabbi david Pardo welcome to the program we have a different program for you tonight we've brought together two important key communal figures to talk about one broad issue and that's that's abuse in various manifestations the most all of us you know we're practicing staying home and for many of us it's a mixed blessing I know having my kids running all over the house and it looks like trash and this one's in school that's cool it's uh you know there's positives negatives but I mostly go to sleep at night with a smile on my face it is impossible to ignore the fact that it is not so simple to be cooped up at home for a lot of people for very different reasons and it's important that we have this conversation that were aware of what's going on in our community and I am excited in a you know called the gross kind of way to talk to people who really understand what's going on what we need to know what we can do to to be better to be better neighbors and to be better or spouses and be better parents and better children the whole life so I'd like to introduce that further ado my next guest is V Gluck you there hi how are you good morning morning afternoon good evening speak luck is the CEO of a moody m-- is a neighbor downstairs 11 Broadway and you're working not just from home you're working overtime this is a it's a very tentative time for everyone Adam Levine I take it yeah that's an understatement and we were neighbors and hopefully we'll be neighbors again soon when we get back to work mr. Schine after the storm yep but in the meantime how how has has Kovac 19 affected the work first up of people who don't know what what is the work that within the scope of a new team and then how has it been affected Cobin 19 so I'm Adam was found this just a little bit over six years ago with many shawl many clientele of a shawl and myself together what my she will send originally to be stigmatized sexual abuse and addiction within the community and it quickly grew from there to a comprehensive clinical case management organization in which by all of our staff are all clinicians they're all mental health professionals and they help families that are going through issues of addiction abuse or severe mental illness not just by providing the care for the person themselves that's in the a sorrow but for everybody else around them excuse me what we have found is that when we help the entire family as a unit or we build a better support structure it creates a much longer sobriety for those that are struggling with addiction it creates better healing for those that were victims of abuse and it helps in general if the other components of I'm going to miss me too a lot of awareness events programming's we put out a lot of PSA videos to again D stigmatize these issues and over the last six years we've grown to where we not only have the office in eleven Broadway but we have offices in Cleveland and Miami and Florence and Muncie and in Yerushalayim in Israel and our basic main work is the comprehensive case management however we also get involved in crisis intervention matters and then placements and it's really taking a 30,000 foot view so it's not just about getting let's use the addiction component just to make it simple it's not just about getting the person who's struggling with addiction into the proper detox or we have a program but also making sure that their spouse their parent their siblings their children their loved ones are all getting the proper care as well which will help the entire unit be able to heal properly on the same on the sexual abuse side which is a little more complex because the bulk of our clients are people that were abused at home by close family members are close friends who they are now in quarantine with well let's go get to that in a second but yes that is a major issue of how that's been affecting us with the co fit 19 man unfortunately but what happens is is that here it's more complicated because parents have to choose sides over if it's an older brother that abused the younger sibling you know they're choosing sides over who they do want to believe don't want to believe so they're it's not just about the clinical care but it's also about getting the family to understand what's really going on so they can be here for their loved one who was abused who needs the most help so I imagine this this work is difficult always but I imagine now let's say kids are spending a lot more time with their parents and parents are coming to realize habits that their children have you know Michelle or you know people are just in closer quarters and are finding out things how's that how is that impacting the the drug abuse side so we've had a lot more clients over the last week to week and a half that have actually been struggling with remaining sober and we're working overtime to try to provide as much support and resources as we can but unfortunately we do have quite a few that we've needed to replace back in two facilities detoxes and rehabs because they they have fallen off the wagon as a result of the stress anxiety and everything else that's going on and also at a time that not many facilities are accepting new patients and trying to deal with the finances especially when there's so many other expenses right now it's just and I hate to use the word but like the perfect storm you know it's hard as it is it's hard to raise funds now we have somebody before Pesach when the whole world is trying to raise money for Kym capisco so importantly that all of a sudden now needs to go back into treatment and it also takes a toll on the family so it's been extremely complex and we're doing the best we could with whatever resources we have to try to keep people sober setting up a AMA sa meetings online you know through Xoom al-anon meetings uh sonam meetings you know online through zoom trying to create peer-to-peer support so we're doing as much as we can to help keep people sober and barber shop for the most part it's working and we have his Nancy has done a video series from the living room already three videos that have been put out on the Mouton Khurana website plus we did a live event with him on Monday we're doing one with David Koch what's on Thursday so we're trying the best we can with what resources we have to help who's the target for your webinars is that your clients is that the families or is that just any auditors everybody we want people to understand that understand that these things are diseases they're illnesses and that everybody should be aware and be able to help those that need it so it's targeted for anybody who wants to watch it the other thing that we have to remember is especially in times like this as a general rule stigma is an issue in our community yeah especially now with so much else going on the stigma becomes even more difficult because now family members are either know somebody that passed away or know somebody that lost their job or know somebody that has other issues and now all of a sudden to be hit with oh my gosh now I got to deal with my loved one with addiction now usually we're able to do a lot of events you know that we do all throughout the year we do literally close to a hundred a year where we do awareness events and where we and narcan kits and we do a lot of work you know to help before there is a problem all of that is out right now because we can't do those events and get you know the communities to be more aware of it so a lot of the harm reduction techniques that we've used are pretty much non-existent right now we are getting calls from families saying can you please send us narcan kits because we have a loved one that we're scared right over though so we're doing the best we can to accommodate but it's just become very very difficult you use the word at these figma and believe what's the difference between stigma and shame and how does that play into your work so it really it can be one of the scenes the difference you know is that the stigma is on a more broader level shame is the individual level of the family so the family themselves might not want to reach out for help because they're worried about Shane I used the word stigma usually linked with a mother s worry the word should I say issue is those that are scared that because of potential shadow command because of potential other matters they will therefore be scared on the stigma and not allow their loved ones to get the help that they need and that's a big shame how do we how do we get the help of the families so the first thing we do that other than me coughing the first thing that we do is we do more events like this where mainstream organizations such as the Oh you and others will step up to the plate then let's break this topic out and keep talking about it so that we remove the stigma from within the community you know many years ago people were scared to talk about quote-unquote kids at risk that topic became less taboo people didn't want to talk about cancer that became less taboo you go back forty years ago people want to talk about having a child that was born with a developmental disability that became lost a boost and that was the time for us to do the same thing and get our community leaders and community organizations to talk about this topic to allow this topic to be frontline which by the way we're getting there and we're certainly a lot further ahead than we were five years ago so I want to just preface that you know I don't want to make the sound like you know this is not happening we just need to do it more and the more we can get it out there like I have this global dream of having a Shabbos were every wrong thing every shoe in every community will talk about the effects of sexual abuse and addiction on a family in the community as a whole you know an initiative like that Dena Travis Chavez Dena okay well I got an email guys know that please please put me in touch with them because when I gave a speech recently to about 70 called the rabbi's I said listen would you guys even be willing to speak about this topic from your pulpit I fell off the moon right we have to keep you know breaking those barriers and then I sexual abuse but also that we're auditioning around yeah sexual abuse addiction and mental illness in general you know those are three main areas that I'm with them deals with and three main areas that need to be stigmatized but as far as what I'm with with the corona component we also in addition to all those that were struggling with addiction we have a lot of abuse victims that are either at home with their abusers or we've been able to remove someone from the home or the mere anxiety of possibly being at home with them especially over Pesach and you know usually we're able to work things out you know especially when it's an older brother type of abusive situation where we can you know find the place for the older brother or keep them in yeshiva and Israel for Pesach or find some other options this year almost all of our options are out so finding crop replacements and sadly sadly sadly a lot of families that we're dealing with are choosing to have the abuser spend Pesach with them leaving us to figure something out to do with the victim which is really painful you know it's it's a component of secondary trauma to the victim of abuse it's definitely clinically considered a real victim ization of the abuse victim who not only was abused but now is being abused again because they have nowhere to go and it's becoming extremely complex but where again we're doing the best we can borrow Hashem for the most part has been able to find solutions but there are still a little bit more than a handful that we're trying to figure things out and it's just really really difficult what is one piece of advice you'd give to families who are not struggling with this at all and then and may not even be aware of you know their neighbors struggling with that but you know it's happening and how can we be better citizens and better neighbors so again I mean awareness is always the key to everything so somebody you know the old expression see something say something if somebody sees something that seems odd or seems awkward they should reach out to a mental health professional and try to get an assessment that what they saw is that potential is a potential problem the other thing I'll say like from dr. Zimmerman's perspective he said something very interesting because we do these group meetings every day with her staff he said he's actually less worried about those that were abused and he's more worried about those that were never abused yet that now this might be an opportunity for new occurrences to occur there we try to tell parents to please keep an extra eye open on your children on your siblings and your you know in-laws cousins uncles just keep an extra eye not that we're accusing anybody of anything but just to be really safe about that and and then if you do see something reach out for help I do want to mention that I'm with them in conjunction with many organizations and I know that the shoreland task force is joining you as well and they're also partner with us so we've launched a support line that is manned every day of the week including Java Singh up to 8 a.m. till 11 p.m. that people can call up they can call anonymous or they can actually give their information if they do need services and with a number number is either 887 a modem or the easier number to remember is area code seven one eight nine seven two 3,000 and this support line is manned by licensed mental health professionals only it is only clinicians and they're just to provide support on any of these matters that anybody has or any other matters general anxiety anything people are just concerned with and if there's an emergent situation and they call we have protocols how to deal with that as well we want people to know that they're not alone eight eight eight seven eluding eight eight eight seven or seven one eight nine seven to three thousand people I thank you for taking very precious time out of your schedule and thank you for what you're doing for for the club excellent thank you so much for having me thank you for doing your part and helping to bring these really sensitive matters to the forefront so that we can help those who need cut arrest a man for these invasive same to your customers amass take care you're on oh you live my name is Robert David part of today we are doing a special showcase on abuse within the community and the specific impact of kovat nineteen on well the covert nineteen lifestyle and how it's impacting issues that were already there and maybe worsening like speed-walk said awareness is the key my next guest is dr. Shawna Friedman Sean task force Sean either it's fried Minh right hi how are you near me it's vibin thank you so much for having me today I thank you thank you so much for being here you know I got an email one of the rabbinic listservs you know please share the following information it was about it was about a hotline not not this one not seven one eight nine seventy two three thousand but and I posted it and in the 16 years I've been on Facebook because that was one of the one of the early schools that got it in the 16 years I've been on Facebook I've never had a status shared more often more time yes it had more likes you know births and graduations and whatnot but never more shares so it was about it was about domestic abuse and people being stuck at home with their abusers and and for people to be aware so it's resonating I want to piggyback on what Steve is sherry and Steen are very close colleagues and we're working with them on the hotline jointly is that I think the idea that the thoughts that what's happening now for all of us is very isolating and when the dynamics and central dynamics of the domestic violence is really isolation and how fearful they are so I think this idea of bringing the awareness to everybody is so powerful because we're all looking to find ways to stay healthy in this very stressful time I mean we all experience that so when I saw that you got those likes and we've been doing that too outside the last 10 days Shaun task force our social media is just so active and I think that it resonates with people right the idea the just the thought about being stuck in the house with someone who's abusive and really having very little much more restricted access to help it's just so frightening so I appreciate you bringing this out there because really awareness is the key how do we make sure people know that they are not alone and there's there's help out there so yes thank you and I yeah it's very very frightening yeah absolutely meaning most of the time it's terrible anyway and at least you can go to work or or or the spouse goes to work or you like there's an out there's an outlet and now there's none so and yeah yeah I was taking hotline calls and I'm taking them where our hotline which is we're working in conjunction mood and we also have our own hotline and I'll you know is that I've been taking calls with with our our staff and right before we all went in shelter-in-place around a week and a half ago I guess I'm losing track of time but I got a call from a young woman and she said she said there's never been a physical and scent but there's a lot of emotional and verbal abuse in the home it was right after Purim there is a very assaultive behavior um when he was drunk and she I said well what made you call now she cuz I'm so fearful of going into the house and me in place right now I go to work she had a career she gets you know she has validation there she's treated with respect there she has an identity there and right there's an outlet but there's also like an act right quite literally you like she doesn't have to be inside all day and here we are I don't know what they were up to but we're all inside right we're really and what does that feel like with someone you still can't see in corona with oh sorry I mean it's right what does it mean to be inside what does it mean to be inside with someone and how do you remain safe and typically us in the domestic violence world you know and I've been talking to people on the national level right like some of the things that we do to help people stay safe or not as available right we can't leave as easily our shelters though they're considered essential services people don't want to go into shelter in the middle of a pandemic right like that's just the thought of that is like whoa like could I get sick like what am i choosing you know so other interventions might be more strange so we have to think very creatively with people what what are the interventions in your toolbox right so what we do a lot is safety planning right so people call our hotline and we do something we call the safety discussion or planning how do you stay as safe as possible in this situation and that does not mean escape plan though sometimes it does include that but it will be really like how do you stay as safe as possible so physically how do you say is safe what rooms are the safest they might gonna be safe the safest near home so typically we talk about kitchens are not safe I think it's kind of graphic if you think about it but like kitchens have a lot of weapons I mean it's hard it's hard to think about that it's hard to think about that you so it's really like how do we stay safe as possible in this situation how do we stay in rooms that are safe as possible how do we how do we stay have bathrooms what room is really the safest and then we also think about like where can you who can you call how do you still take connected because so much of the central dynamic of domestic violence really is around isolation and here we are all being isolated so what is the central dynamic that we could how can we stay connected so who in your life can you tell and what can they do to make you feel affirmed and is there a code word if it gets really bad so you know you're not able to say to your friend really good word sorry with like I'm sound like a friend like who's a girl like let's say you could stay in touch with a friend but it's too hard to call a hotline rightly it's just too hard to call hotline yes oh maybe even tell a friend you know I say to you I'm really hot in here that means you need to call the police right so you still say connect it to someone and then if it really gets bad you could say that so we think about ways how can you say how can you stay connected how can you make sure you get access what you need to stay as safe as possible the other piece that we need to talk about is really also emotional safety because right now we may not be able to do everything we need to leave a situation but how can stay is emotionally safe and this is true for all of us how do we stay as emotionally as safe as possible right now we're where you can feel grounded so how do you take time in your day right to say okay this isn't my fault I am NOT alone in this and what can I do to stay in that way so sometimes I'll tell you some callers it really comes down to taking three extra minutes in the shower sounds silly but it's their own space right and they might be able to just be alone there may be having a cup of tea tea we're still gonna go for walks you know unlike some of our friends in Israel who are even more restrictions um we're still hundred meter radius 100 meter radius it's not very big right I know that we we go for walks regularly right how do we stay as emotionally safe as possible and so we're working with people who are calling thinking about the same things both things how do we stay as physically safe as possible right how do you say it's physically safe as possible in which we could just think about how do we you know keep things as calm as possible and the hard part about this is that though the abuser is always responsible for the behavior we will often talk about can you can you anticipate when something might escalate so you could avoid you know physical harm and then is there a way to stay as emotionally safe as possible but the real message is is that we need to get through this we need to save safe as possible and there are resources so there's the Moodle hotline there's our hotline which is 1 888 and of course I'm linking right now I have it right now this is what it was like in 8 8 8 8 3 23 23 23 23 so Before we jump to answers I want to and I want to end on resources but something that that's occurred to me is a lot of people god forbid in abusive relationships don't realize their abusive relationships I think people years of therapy to even admit that that themselves only when reading mouse as an adult like that the book I thought was about the Holocaust when I was little and I realized when I was older is about the Holocaust and about an abusive relationship with a parent you know it's not obvious but now people are how is how is this impacting that meaning oh well even waking up to the idea that they that they need help I I dare say there are people watching the show who are thinking about their neighbors and now they're slowly kind of like circling back to wait alright when he talks to me right so there are differences between I think you know maybe we should go back to that a bit is let's define what we're talking about domestic violence intimate partner violence is not about a fight right I think that we're talking about a continuum relationships we have healthy or healthy enough relationships and we move into high conflict relationships and then we move into a domestic violence domestic violence is really about a dynamic of power and control and how does that feel is there fear and I'll tell you that that is a real distinction now it is not up to that person to diagnose their relationship and it may not be the time to figure out like is this a domestic violence relationship or is this a high conflict relationship well you want to focus on right now is make sure people are as safe as possible right and then there you know hopefully will be also had time to manage that so right now you know know what I'm talking about if you're afraid of for a friend or for a neighbor we could talk about that it's interesting how we manage that right now but in this situation is to to really just focus on like what is in the moment it is it's unless there is and you know everybody could choose to do what they want this point but unless there's a really weak threat for physical incidences right now it may not be the time to make rash fad life decisions right it there's just a lot of stress but to recognize what's going on call called either the hotlines recognize that you can get get some feedback from people and let's figure out what we want to how you want to go forward please people keep on calling us like what can I do I'm really afraid for my friend what can I do what kind you so bright that guy's very tricky right it's really tricky and the truth is is that in general that's tricky right we don't we even let's like let's get out of the covert situation in general you can't tell a friend when is the right time to leave a relationship or even tell your friend I think your husband's abusive or your wife's abusive like that generally does not work you can't say things to the extent of like I'm concerned for your safety or that was really uncomfortable are you doing okay you know really kind of I statements reflective statements but what someone who's a victim needs is connection and by making sure you're not judgmental you can remain connected right yeah that that is what they need they cannot be feel isolated because part of the dynamic of abuse is isolation isolation from resources so you are a resource to your friend right you know mood any initial task force but you are a resource and if they feel that they can't come to you because you're judgmental or you kind of you you know we've had people who are will say to them you have you know that this either you leave him and we're not gonna be friends you know family will say that like we think he's bad for you you have to leave him well then when she chooses not to leave because typically you know it takes a very long time to figure skaters off yeah right then that person now knows you're not a safe resource so the job of a friend is to remain a non-judgmental resource that person to say okay how can I be helpful to you and really take a step back and you recognize it's their life and they have to decide now it's really hard right we don't run on each other's homes I got yes the other day at a death we were I was doing some education - in a different community they're like well I'm really afraid to my sister and I can't get in touch with her I just can't touch with her right he she doesn't have access to a phone right now and I was like you know it's really tough I don't have all the answers this is a very unusual situation but what idea I came up with is write a letter right the mail is still coming now is that a perfect answer absolutely not but a letter at least says to them I'm still thinking of you I'm not forgetting you so how do we find ways to connect to people to make sure that they're not forgotten right and they still feel that they're able to reach out when and if they're ready right so that's a lot of what we're trying to do is just making sure that people know that when and if they're when they're ready and that they were where they all will fit and we can all do that for each other circle back to the resources for it so okay so there's our hotline which is one eight eight eight three 23 23 23 23 and then I'll tell you I mean this is always hard to say but 911 one is still a resource and that's an essential service and it's still available to people and if people are in fear and they're going to be they need police intervention I would encourage them if it's what they need right now is to still call 9-1-1 i mu dem is a great resource and they have longer hours and they're available on Shabbos on Sunday I'm wearing double Sunday mornings also if you do call our hotline and there is nobody available it will you can connect the national hotline and they'll be able to assist you so there are resources out there we know and nationally we know this right now is that some of the calls to domestic violence hotlines are decreased right now because we imagine it's very very challenging to call when you're actually trapped in the house with your abuser rather that that call happens when you go for write that call to parents when you're the office or he's the office or you know there's some quiet time often not on a phone in the house where they can be traced so just you know we anticipated mian thought when we're all out of shelter in place but even in the meantime we're available to be assisted to assist Shana thank you thank you for taking out some time thank you for what you're doing yes and if anybody has any questions please feel free to call us we're here for you thank you we'll make sure to put that number up on the on the post have a hot customer some math well this has been a heavy episode but I think a necessary episode there are things happening all around us obviously there's a lot of sickness and and we have to be focused on our physical health but we need to be paying attention as well to emotional health and social health and these issues are issues all year long and endemic or no but it behooves us as we get closer to faceoff to focus on our our freedom in every regard this is this has been oh you live hope to see you tomorrow night at 9 p.m.