Be the One They Turn To - Dr. Pelcovitz on Parenting

hi and welcome my name is reab Yakov Glasser I have the great privilege of serving as the managing director for communal engagement for the Orthodox Union and I am joined by Dr David pelovitz who holds the gendin and Joseph Strauss chair in Psychology and Jewish Education at The azeli Graduate School of Jewish Education and administration more importantly Dr pelovitz is known throughout our community as an expert in all areas of mental health and is the source of so much guidance and kiz and strength in so many different contexts of Jewish life where we turn to him for his wisdom and for his uh approach in how to navigate the most complex situations that we have we are right now sitting together in the context of our J alif program which is the OU parenting program and we have had many different Gatherings over the course of the past couple of weeks related to kuk um in terms of the war in Israel and We Gather today specifically to focus on areas of mental health and in terms of mental health spe more specifically uh regarding how to relate to our children within the framework of this most extraordinary challenge uh that we are all experiencing this coming chabas we're going to read the paraa of Noah and we know that Noah while he experienced enormous amounts of Destruction that were going on outside within the world uh one of Noah's primary responsibilities within that Tava was to care for his family as they were experiencing everything around them kazal tell us that the taba was constructed with a soar there was a window a portal through which Noah could definitely relate to the challenges and destruction that were going on in the outside world and still it was his responsibility to somehow manage both the emotional and spiritual and physical needs of his family and of all the animals that were with him in this table uh we ourselves I think Dr pelovitz could describe ourselves on some level as also within AA when we are within our homes uh there is so much going on in the world around us uh there was so much going on before within the world around us and uh certainly as this reality touches families in so many different ways some of those joining us today have family in Israel some of us joining us today may even be in Israel uh some of some joining us today uh may have families serving on the front lines in the IDF some has have children learning in Yeshiva and Seminary uh all of us this is so personal all of us are connected to what is going on in such profound and significant ways and so what we have gathered this evening to discuss is how we ourselves can strengthen our approach to making sure that in the Tava of our homes we don't close that soar we we recognize what's going on we connect to what with what what's going on in the outside world with our brothers and sisters in Israel and around the world and at the same time we're able to do what we need to do to care for ourselves and to care for our families so it is a great honor and a great privilege uh to be speaking with you Dr bovitz and I'd like really to begin by asking for your assessment um somewhat of a you know State of the Union of the Jewish people's emotional state you know I'm sure you've been interfacing with organization and leaders and individuals and your own family and yourself in terms of navigating the challenges related to this reality if you could just speak to maybe for just a few minutes to give us words to describe where we are and what we're feeling and what we're going through emotionally um as parents and as uh members of the Jewish people yeah thank you um it's interesting usually when we've done um these kind of programs in the past before the of of the war um we have sort of like an easy give and take and a joking around and I I always look forward to any kind of program I could do with you not so much today um it's just so um you know so so unspeakably difficult to try to know where to go you know um there's a um there's a kinds of challenges that we're facing are um challenges that by definition none of us none of us faced before we ask me for a state of the union what I would say is um you know as I see it um I'm going to say what's all almost become trite um resilience is not only the norm but I've been spending my days since those horrible events inspired say with tears but with inspiration and um I um you know I'm just amazed at how um the the whole Community um has rallied around being there for the being there for each other being there for for for for you know in in any way possible um this is brought out the best in us as far as I could see and I hope I'm not saying like a pan I'm not saying there weren't tremendous challenges I'm not saying that I don't Doom scroll which I do plenty of and shouldn't um but um um I've been mostly I've been amazed at the the strength and the um you know the the the Aus is just um so inspiring wherever I go that's what I've been seeing and hearing that's amazing um I guess so Dr pelovitz you mentioned the notion of resilience and uh certainly many of us uh feel within ourselves and have seen within our children and within those around us extraordinary resilience I'm wondering if you know for those maybe who are struggling Beyond where their resilience can carry them to uh before we get into the children and how we should relate to them and how we should share what's going on and help them process it uh just to start with ourselves you know how can an individual sort of check in with themselves uh to make sure that they are in a healthy space uh with such an extraordinarily challenging emotional reality and again let me emphasize the the overarching kind of them here which is there's no one right way to do it and even within ourselves it's going to shift from time to time you know um I know I certainly haven't been sleeping um the way I usually do I know that I haven't been um processing anywhere close to what I'm hopefully used to and um I think that um in terms of uh self-care we have to cut ourselves a break we have to realize that we're going through Horrors um that are unprecedented in our lives you know many of us I think almost my definition there's a connection to the hars of the Holocaust either directly in our family or in our extended families or whatever and um you know this has been triggering um Primal Kinds of Kinds of fears at least of Me Okay um and yet um I find myself um more more inspired you know than I've been in a very long time you know um so I I just I just feel that um the first thing we have to do is to be kind to ourselves to realize that um any reaction that we have during this uh during this tragedy is going to fall under the rubric of normal reaction to an abnormal event um you know I haven't been finding anybody who I speak to who has disappointed me in any way sure some people have been extremely anxious and others are um you know maybe even a little bit annoying and their demandingness then all I have to do is ask them one question you know not only how are you doing remember mayor cotch used to say used to walk through the streets of Manhattan and how am I doing how am I doing we have to ask ourselves how am I doing we also have to um do it we have to show the the same kind of compassion that that we show to our community and that we show to um you know the people people around us we have to show that to to ourselves as well so true I I I'm wondering when many of us take in various developments that we'll read on the news or that are shared by friends over WhatsApp or different things that are going on uh so often we're reacting to the developments ourselves emotionally you know on one hand we are trying to be our children through this experience we're trying to convey from a values perspective through this experience the notion of that we're we feel the pain of those who are in Israel and when things happen it really strikes us the fear itself um is often Something That We're experiencing terms of the unknown of what's coming next from an emotional perspective from a psychological perspective what would you say is the Bal balance in the approach of parents on one hand modeling the authenticity and sincerity of their own reactions and at the same time uh not conveying them to their kids to a point that will be unhealthy for them or frighten them and and this question might be different for different age groups uh obviously what what is developmentally appropriate for younger kids for you know more you know middle school kids for teenagers what would you say how how do we strike that balance because we're all so impacted by this all ourselves um so um yeah just to speak um briefly about that um number one um my understanding of the research on trauma is that um it's often ages that we not necessarily tuned into that may need the most Care turns out that in um the DSM research you know the psychiatric diagnostic research um the finding was that in horrible times like this um preschoolers are are in many ways the most at risk they're likely to blame themselves they're likely to misunderstand they're very concrete very often and it doesn't mean that you have to treat them in an in an overly um you know gentle kind of way but it means that um two guidelines number one is you can't mess up as long as you listen and hear um you can't you can't you just can't mess up sure you may say things that are really stupid I do that all the time um and sure you may say things that um you look back on and say to yourself did I really say that kids aren't that fragile you know you know as long as you're coming from a place place of love and you're speaking from a place of compassion and from your soul it's going to be it's going to be okay you know um you know and then you could check in with them um they will often misunderstand what you say at the beginning all they know is they look at you and they see things aren't normal they see that this is a unusually difficult kind of time um and they all are um I think picking up on our anxiety and to me the best way of dealing with that is um ask them how they feel um and just check in with their um che check check in with not the how am I doing how how are you doing ask them what is their understanding of what's going on and to be understood first understand understand them hear them out you know what is it um we often talk about you know the Hebrew word ashre you know for the highest level of happiness is emically tied to the word isure to validate so just be there and listen to them and um being present which is hard it's very hard but you know when you sit down to talk to them you stop your doom scrolling you shut off your phone and you just you know try to empty yourself um out of your current concerns and just listen you know um this is um this was the shabis of my bar mitzah I remember my father who was a rabbi for 65 years in in the white show and and faraka away he um you know that really awkward speech the rabbis give he looked at me and he said my onlya is that I give the world one good listener so I picked up on the importance of really being present you know and and and just being able to focus it's an art and it's so much harder to do nowadays but um you know nothing quite as powerful as shutting our phones off you know as um you know just giving Focus I found that um that's kind of what I've been seeing like an improvement in that kind of connectedness I think you've had Dr buthol speak to this group I think so yeah yeah I don't know if he shared with you um you know some of the research on um firefighters he found that um during times of Crisis like this the people who do best um are all often not what you'd expect it's the firefighters because they take care of each other it's that power of that makes a little difference in the world wow uh one of the aspects of this that have been has been somewhat unique in terms of navigating it with our children is really the degree of atrocities that have taken place and the public nature of the way in which they were shared with the world and continue to be shared with the world um our children are in school our children many of them are online um they are going to encounter this from Friends they're going to encounter this from the news they're going to encounter this from different places uh what what guidance can you give us in terms of how to either help them process what's happening when it's so extreme um should we be sharing things with them that they don't know yet so that they hear it from us as opposed to hearing it from friends in school and we can make sure that they can discern fact from fiction um you know H how do we help them how do we help them with with what is such a just challenging aspect of this yeah yeah just ask you can't go wrong by asking um and they're going to be hearing a lot of um first of all a lot of inaccurate stuff there are a lot of um I'm Amazed at how frequently there are um there's just bad information out there um and um you know just this last couple of days you know where there was uh you know such um you know such Sheck um and based on based on on lies um what I would what I would suggest which is nothing surprising about this is um just keep asking ask them how are you doing what have you heard uh let's go over what you've heard you unpack it with them um and you just you just um you know ask questions based on their lead and it's going to change not only from day to day but from hour to hour you know um and um who knows what they're saying to each other on the bus going home from school who knows what they're hearing and misunderstanding um I think that um the um the the what's in our control is to check in with them maybe even multiple times uh certainly multiple times every couple of days and to let them know that um there's nothing that is going on that you can't do your best best to try to be there for them to try to help them you know as try does that Mak sense I think it's it's just so important to let them know there's no one right way to grieve there's no one right way to uh you know to handle this and just listen and they're GNA overhear you you could say know you may overhear certain things that are hard to understand you know um I I um can guarantee you that um the miscon exceptions are are all over the place here and um the role we play is all important we also need to manage the meaning making part of things you know um because that's something this is a time that we could share with them the essence of what is the essence of um what we need to uh impart to them and maybe before all of this um we haven't been so good at importing because we're so busy but that has to be front and center now what we do with them now um we very much are um are doing it in a way that is uh clearly um clear clearly something that they're they're going to remember okay um and on the meaning making part you know um um I think there's a uh a concept of um the medish to hillan that says you know how do we deal with times like this we have to keep telling us about how every nission okay can be turned into a banner held high and to remember G the medish toim that says what I say countless of times every day since it's all started Lo if I never fell down I never would have gotten up I never sat in the darkness I never would have appreciated the light and it's going to be different different ages so we talked already a little bit about preschool um adolesence is a time that is particularly difficult and challenging you know um but yet this is um an amazing time for somebody to be and for somebody to be in a position where you're literally um facing the reality of never again the reality of literally being there to save the Jewish people um wow I envy theira I really do wow so layering it also to make sure that they're not just processing all of the horrors but also seeing you know the the balance in terms of what's happening in the Jewish people all the akas and all the uh everything else that's happening I think one of the things that we're struggling with even as adults is how much of all of this to watch and how much of all this to look at I think on one hand we all feel like we have to remain as connected as possible and we have to be affected and impacted by what's going on and we can't bury our head in the sand and and not look at at what's happening to our people and and internalize its magnitude for all the reasons that you know are important in terms of connecting to the reality of of the Jewish people right now and on the other hand we also like we discussed earlier we also need to make sure that we're taking care of ourselves and that doesn't become the defining you know and and constant reality for us that uh we're also making sure uh to take care of ourselves as you said earlier uh what would would you say is the proper level of guidance on this issue for our children and again in different ages to the extent that we're in control of it how much of this how much of the war how much of the different elements uh that are being broadcast how much of this should we allow our children access to should we be filtering things differently now than we were before before we were worried more about technology as an addicting Focus maybe we were worried more about pornography and these kinds of things um violence the imagery of violence is that something we should be concerned about affecting our children um even when it's being shared in a context that obviously is not God forbid entertaining in any way but but has more to do with with our connection to the Jewish people uh what how should we be relating to filtering and guiding the access of our children to the information that's uh that's coming along yeah um all of the guidance I've been getting from my colleagues and from some research we've done on this going back to 911 in Oklahoma City says that um if our kids see horrific images totally unfiltered it could lead to a full-blown post-traumatic um post-traumatic stress reaction um there was um research on going back to Oklahoma City and the bombing of the Federal Building there and what I found was very clearly that uh there's um you know kids watching this stuff without um without filters can develop fullblown kinds of um kinds of really damaging reactions you know um I've seen kids who come from families where there's very little in the way of supervision on these things who have developed fullblown um you know post-traumatic stress sort of reactions to seeing be Isis beheadings uh to seeing just unspeakable kinds of things there's no reason for us to um have them see that we could be no we could be there with our hearts and our soul and all of our compassion with without necessarily exposing them to any of this the real way to develop empathy is to show empathy and is to show balance and is to ask them over and over again um you know what's it been like for you to see this and you just have to remember that we're here to protect you and that we have a uh you know for very little kids we have a very strong you know we're strong people and we really believe deeply in the idea of um never again the idea of uh just um fighting let them let them hear that let them know that kids who are wired in a way that they're anxious which is about one out of six kids maybe one out of five kids are gonna have a harder time you know that's what they do for living is what they're all about okay but you know we just have to uh you know recognize that and that's okay and um you know give them give them words for it but you have to really be on top of it I I have a um a daughter who um is now a you know very respected clinical psychologist at the Cornell um and um after 911 we we um I was doing some pilot studies with some of the teams we were working with on the mental health followup up and one of them was asking is your kid and we'll Expos to horrific images that are being shown on TV or on CNN or whatever and um IID answer no no absolutely not we're on top we're on top of her we're on top of all of them and then I give her this um questionnaire to fill out it turns out that she was getting up at 23 in the morning okay this future psychologist and this kid who we thought we had a handle on and was watching nonstop and ways that were very inappropriate now maybe some good came from it but um you know she's become an expert in that area writing a bed and things like that but we just have to remember that here I was supposed toly this big shot and I totally blew it it was going on you know right in our own basement so um yeah thank you uh I want to turn our attention towards a very sensitive Point um there are many parents um uh who have children in ER Isel uh of different ages and different stages uh so there is the general anxiety and concern that people have with the well-being of their family who are in Israel all in different spaces relative to the War uh but I want to zero in on a specific population and that is the parents of kids who are learning in yiba and Seminary Gap year programs uh who really only arrived in Israel a short time ago let's remember it's not like they've been in these institutions for months and months um they were there for a couple of weeks and then had Yanti and then came back to this reality so the relationships there are not the same you know and many parents are struggling with many aspects of this reality uh there is the anxiety of the parents themselves and there is the extremely challenging question of whether or not to bring the children home and I don't want to get into the specific evaluation you know or any sort of like uh protocol you know this is when you bring home this is when you don't bring home because there are many different factors and guidances coming from many different spaces and there's the ribonic Vantage Point there's the psychological Vantage Point there's the parents the child uh but maybe if you could help share with parents number one how we from afar can provide support to our kids who are in this situation in a healthy way not a smothering way um and number two how we can monitor and identify whether or not there's some aspect of what they're going through that should be a point of concern that should then uh Elevate this question to a different place in terms of the calculus of what we should actually be doing uh because I think that you know many of us are communicating with them whether it's over FaceTime or Whatsapp or phone calls or texts uh how much is too much how much is not enough what should we be looking for to provide some guidance for this very unique part of the parental experience in this uh whole reality so the the the first thought I have in response to that question by the way it's the most common question I've been asked since uh you know since this all started um the the the um first thing to think about is um what do they want to do if they're saying that they W to stay and if they're staying if they're saying that they need to stay because after all it's what we rais them to do um I think that um you certainly shouldn't start to think seriously about bringing them home until you check check first of all with the people who really know them you know with their teachers with their friends well maybe not with their friends but certainly with their teachers and and and here how are they doing relative to um their their peers um you know um if they you know I I I I get worried about us making that kind of DEC decision when you're dealing with um you know young adults this age they're worried about us making the decision for them it's going to shape them for the rest of their lives um I certainly understand when parents do this I have no right again I have tons of uh tons of family there you know of all types um and um you know and it is it is anxiety provoking but um you know you need to just pick up the phone and call and check with the people who know and then if you really feel that you need to have them home and who's who might have judge that and there's so so many things that go into this are you descended from you know from people who were um who were Holocaust Survivors are you um are you a very anxious person yourself you know there there's just all those different iterations but again I can't beg you strongly enough to be understood first understand ask them listen to them listen to what they're thinking um because um this is going to be one of the most um one of the most um growth inducing components of their life with that being said um I could certainly understand those who just will not you know you know you know can't can't can't live with this um and who's to judge that so the most important thing again is just keep asking asking the people who know um ask um and most importantly ask them you know does that make sense to you at all or yeah absolutely are there in in I guess part of the challenge is with the distance you know um are there particular questions other then how are you doing how are you feeling that you feel would help a parent keep an eye on where their kid is emotionally uh through the process because I imagine it could also change you could have a kid that's um displaying enormous resilience on Monday and then on Tuesday falls apart a little bit and you're like whoa maybe there's a problem here and then on Wednesday has it together again you know there's some volatility I think that that takes place emotionally in terms of managing all of this so are there like kind of fundamental warning signs that you're dealing with not a kid who's struggling with it which everyone is but you know you have to be more on top of it um and maybe looking at this decision with a more critical eye towards the mental health uh considerations and so that you know we don't get into a situation where because this expectation of the children that they uh display this sense of Courage you know in in remaining there and being there and being a part of it that that does not somehow eclipse what could be warning signs for kids who are who are struggling with it to a point that it could be a point of concern so a a couple of thoughts on um you know um how do you differentiate between um anxiety and anxiety disorder when is AC cross the line into a disorder and you know something that um you really need to uh to be on top of um and you have to you have to just you know rely what is it Fred Rogers uh used to say on um on on his show you know look at the helpers they they really know what to do and the helpers here are are the um their their teachers their friends um you know um and um it's a sensitive thing you know it's it's a really sensitive thing um you know um when did things cross the line of the disorder if the symptoms are are persistent pervasive and interfere with functioning so when it crosses the line into that they're so anxious that they just can't really you know control themselves now um you know then of course you have to you have to take that seriously and you have to find um who in Israel you know um really um has a reputation for being on top of these kind of things and really knowing what's happening you know um and um I I find that again you just keep keep the you know the key question is you know are these symptoms interfering with functioning if they are then I would take a very seriously you know it could be that they have to come home it could be that um you know and there's a certain fear in in um in in in coming home you know it's a certain fear and um and embarrassment it's just so difficult um you know you'd be shocked at how many calls I got even today from um you know um very respected um very respected professionals who just you know you know felt that um felt that that pull in two different directions so again I I I know I'm being redundant don't do it alone don't do it alone check in and remember the guidelines of pervasive persist and persistent and interfering with functioning and if they have to come home that's fine that's fine you know many people who come home go go on and um are able to return with pride and without shame and without embarrassment everybody has the right to do that amazing thank you thank you so much um maybe as we move towards our our closing you know there is there is so much unity and there is so much connection between people right now and people reaching out to other people uh I was wondering if you could speak a little bit to like the mental health dimension of how the sense of connectedness with other people and not isolating yourself uh constantly just immersed in the news and the stories but connecting with people all the different venues we have right now and context within which people are coming together whether it's tilila whether it's volunteering whether it's just just people coming together on the street you know because they want to give each other uh how does that relate not only to the like fundamental principles of akos as a value but also to our own mental health yeah um are you are you in other words where where's where's the core of the question here is this is is the is the coming together something that that also is is healthy other than its uh like religious value and its you know Jewish people people Hood value is it something that people should be spending time on also because it's it's it's good for them it'll help them yeah yeah absolutely it's um it's definitely good for them I spoke to um to a group at the um RCA yesterday um most of the leadership um was meeting with the president so when your leadership was meeting with the with the president um you know that was that was very common kind of question and concern um but what most people were saying is um that their doing has never been more meaningful you know that this has brought them to a different level of spirituality and connection and um you know um there's nothing like an asur to bring out our connection to God um and um but it's going to go back and forth you know uh there's gonna be anger you know I don't know how many people have experienced direct loss in this but I could tell you that um the people I've been working with who did experience direct loss you know have been um very tearful and they've been crying and they've been extremely um um you know not themselves but what dominates is is is the resilience you know that is very much what dominates I just one more thing um there's a um it's important to realize about tears because it's a time of Tears you know um you know um and I I don't I don't um this is one of the things that you know was discussed um in a number of the groups I've met with and that's that did we talk about tears today at all not yet okay so just just briefly if um you have allergies and on a day like today um with course of your allergies you shed tears you take those tears put them under the microscope and it'll be salt and water salt is the salt and water but let's say you cry emotional tears because of everything that's going on and who hasn't um you then put those tears the emotional tears under the mic scope what you see is it's filled those tears are filled with a shedding stress hormones we're literally healing ourselves a has Spa YULA Rabbi cus a few times in the telet right um you know so there's nothing quite as therapeutic the key is how to do it with our kids in a way that doesn't um it doesn't freak them out but it's fine for them to see us sad it's it's fine for them to see us crying and that was just one other point I wanted to uh touch on thank you thank you so much Dr pelovitz for your your Insight and your guidance and uh your constant support for our community and for so many our leaders our followers really everyone and uh I do look forward to Future conversations where we can bring back our uh our Dynamic and our our our sense of uh of levity and and back and forth uh for now we remain uh focused focused in our role as parents focused in our role as Jews and part of Amel in doing what we have to do uh each one making their contribution Isen Lio uh towards this uh incredible moment in the history of our people so thank you so much Dr pelovitz you're a treasure thank you you too and uh yeah looking forward to being able to laugh together again thank you and thank you everyone for joining us wishing everyone a safe and meaningful night