Rejuvenation: Exile as a Positive Experience?

[Music] by everybody in Harrow rejuvenation on the land of Israel Network it is the one beautiful day that we're gonna have apparently this week in Jerusalem the shows being pre-taped when beautiful sunny day amidst all the much appreciated rain and it's really my honor to be sitting with Rabbi Francis not tough and talking about his last book in the series and we're talking about why it's came in the middle redeeming relevance in the Book of Leviticus for those of you have been listening to me for a long time so you know that I've interviewed him before as the other books came out so first of all rabbi the top congratulations on Leviticus thank you very much appreciate it and as everybody as it or as most of my listeners you know Leviticus is the third book by geek rough for those of us who speak Hebrew so you did it out of order so can you tell us why that's right well anybody who knows the Bible and anybody who knows the first five books of the Bible know that Leviticus is the hard book so much so that a lot of people just avoid it in fact some my colleagues they do a wonderful job on Genesis they get to Exodus and they're pumped up and they're excited and then they get to Leviticus and they stop and they don't even get to the next books because there's they're stumped and stop so I had that same syndrome and when I finished Exodus I was slowing down and not sure what to do when I said you know there's more than one ways to skin a cat I'm gonna go on and I'll get back to it and that's what worked for me I continued on as as you know I continued on to the next books to numbers and to Deuteronomy and by that time I had more going for me in terms of understanding momentum and people writing yeah you have to tell something about Leviticus so it came as the end of the series but I think the strategy worked out well and I think there's something to be gained from that just in general in life when you come up to something that's a challenge there's there's other ways about going about it and you know go on to the next thing come back to it so you know what for me so one of the interesting things that I've heard of bellavita Kiss is that I mean it's got all these details and all this like it's like boring stuff and we've had all these stories and you know and families and intrigue and drama that's credible and then we get into all these little details so one of the things that I've heard that that I find it interesting is that the message is that Judaism doesn't have secrets okay the Bible I should say more correctly right it doesn't have secrets and so we're going to know it's not going to be I mean at the time that it's written worship of God a lot of it is like you have a few priests and they know and just trust me and give me your money or give me or whatever and then I'll make it all right with God I'm like the interlocutor with God and and what this is saying is even in the places that we're not going to be most of us not being Levites or priests not living even one of the time there's a temple even with the high priest is doing all by himself and the Holy of Holies just on one day a year yom kippur we're gonna know there's no who who stuff here what do you feel about that yeah it makes sense I think the axis between priests and Israelites is meant to be open but even more than not keeping it a secret unless the very basic element which you I think you're absolutely right about what I present my book is that the priestly orders really a model in other words wouldn't we tend to not be interested in this right and not understand it but the Torah and in the the middle book of the Torah in Jewish tradition is called taught Kohanim which means the the law of the of the priests right so the question is so if the law of the priests let the priests read it that way you don't have to get bored right but their handbooks so fine you take it you know you're in you got you got the five credits of AP priesthood and leave the rest of us alone right so my understanding after working on it is that really it's presenting a model for what the Jewish people is all about as you know in another book of the Torah in Exodus the Jews are referred to as nation of priests now sometimes that's mentioned often times and nicer monix and synagogues but very few people really think about what that means if we take that seriously as I think we should then we have to ask what is a priest what does he do what's what's the meaning of a priest because Jews are supposed to be priests you know there's supposed to be this class of people I mean I'm giving a very brief on one foot definition of what how I see the role of priests there's this class of people it's supposed to help other people their spirituality and again the question is well how do you do that many people have tried different things as you mentioned some ancient cults so it's you know take your money and and going to the temple do all sorts of hocus-pocus and and then you know the person is somehow affected maybe but the Jews or the Torah sees it differently and wants to expose that whole plan as a model for taking that one notch lower taking the idea of priesthood bring it down one notch lower inside K now Jews you understand now priests are what priests do do it yourselves and as you guys are priests for everybody else you see how your own priests operate pay attention to that because you're gonna you know it's like when you eat you have someone you tutors someone in in a practical art so what are you telling to say pay careful attention because you're gonna have to do this too and that's how I understand the Book of Leviticus it's not about the priests really it's about the rest of us and it's about that relationship that exists between the priests and the people which is translated into the Jews and the rest of humanity that's the way I see it so we shouldn't get so hung up on take the ashes and sprinkle this and sprinkle that and wear this this way and more on the general idea of what it means to bring God or spirituality and and hopefully spirituality into our day-to-day life so I think that's true with a caveat I think that part of the message is that details are important the specific details are less important than understanding that you're supposed to care about little details tedious details I think that's a message in other words sometimes there's an over message like an inchoate for example Ecclesiastes one of the hardest books I mean if you ever spent much time with Ecclesiastes and the feeling I got from reading is this is going around in circles this is extremely frustrating then I realized that's the point that's exactly what he's trying to communicate not just by words but by general feeling in other words you're supposed to that's exactly what the author is trying to do he's supposed to make you feel like it's not going anywhere the training is an integral part of where you're going like I mean I have a gun license for example and anybody and other people who ever have will say to you unless you're going to train all the times that it's second nature when you have to use it don't take it out so is this what Judaism is training us to certain behaviors so that it's right there what seems tedious is really part of changing us who we are so it becomes an integral part of us yeah I would say training and the details was when you learn how to shoot a gun I actually I took sigh I don't I in my duty as home guard so I also learned how to shoot a gun but I haven't you know God protect us if I ever had to actually do it but in any case you know those details learning every step of the way is important you know why because there's something real going on if you shoot the wrong way or you know that the gun explodes you're in trouble and I think real life is that way also so that the metaphor you bring is actually a really good metaphor so I think one is the training that yeah you have to do this over and over again and know what you're doing but the point that I want to make is not only is the training important but the details every step you know when you're operating anything all the more so human life which is so much more complicated than a piece of machinery the details are important we know that from the rest of Judaism but I think Leviticus brings it to a focus and I was saying that yeah where the details seem to almost not matter this almost confounds us by presenting details and we say you know what differences this animal or that animal if the blood goes on before after and the answer is that you may not understand every little piece but each piece matters and if you want to be a priest if you want to be a priest the nation nations then you have to take care of details you have to be a refined person refinement expertise comes with being a master of something and same way as the actual priests as a master of his right the Jew is supposed to be a master of spirituality and he comes that partly by knowing details of what to do how to live his life so it seems to me that we've lost some of that if you know also I do believe and I'd love to hear what you think that there were elements that we don't understand anymore that there were certain hidden messages hidden meanings both to to a lot of the things that had to do with the temple or I was just in sheilo with a group this week and we were discussing the Mishkan the tabernacle of course the weekly portions that were in right now or a lot of discussions about the tabernacle that there is much more now someone would say like oh you know she's getting into all this weird stuff and powers but that the stones of the of the breastplate each stone wasn't just a stone it had deeper meanings connected to nature connected to God that the animals that all those things that we now say are all just like rituals there's so many things in Judaism we don't understand even like getting to Kush roots like not eating certain foods may not just be because they'll give you digestive problems or you know meat and milk together don't go down well there's something bigger here on a level that we don't understand even with all the science that we know so is it possible the Leviticus is a book of a lot of these things that we're learning it but we're really learning it as best as we can superficially because some of this knowledge of the ancient world was lost whether it was because the physical buildings were lost that you know or the center that the temple the first the tabernacle and later on the temples or because when we left our land we lost it like we are we are thousands of years after when all of this has written something did get lost like and just I'll ask you're not throwing a lot of questions you at once can we get it back that's interesting question whether we can get it back well let me let me backtrack first the beginning of the question the there's no but there's no question that no matter how good a tradition is it's never gonna be foolproof and it's never gonna be such so accurate that you're gonna remember and keep every detail of information part of that it's interesting is because we assume a lot of things there's a lot of things we don't tell each other because we assume them to be correct we assume them to be knowledge you know I'm just thinking about the dial phone I know if you're old enough to remember dial phones but you know we know what it is but we don't think of explaining how a dial phone works to our children because it's obvious right everybody knows that but you know there's a cute phone I said cute picture I saw the other day of someone holding up the receiver of a dial phone up to take a picture with because that's what a phone does right it takes pictures so you know that there's the in if and this is one thing from just you know a short period of time we're living obviously over hundreds and thousands of years there's all sorts of information gonna be lost all the more so when something's not practiced so this sacrificial Rite is hasn't been practice for 2,000 years basically so obviously there are going to be things that are gonna fall away and be less understood can we get it back well experience will help some but come back I don't you know it it's funny because we have in history all sorts of things that are referred to as Renaissance 'iz or what's a Renaissance Renaissance is bringing back something that used to be is it the same it's never the same but one can go back to earlier periods and bring back some of what was held before just one thing I wanted to point out that I think that the the most critical thing that we've lost is not so much knowledge but feeling I think the sense of what it is and why it's meaningful to give a sacrifice I think that's where we're completely lost in the first chapter I try to reconnect to what's the essence of sacrifice and and again not to focus on the details so much of their focus on some of the details but primarily on on the idea of sacrifice is man's attempt to give something to God which is really a very difficult and profound concept in others the giving is very connected to persons relationship with another person and if we want to have a close relationship with God we model it on the best relationship we know about which is between humans some things transfer easily and other things don't one of them is giving sacrifice is an attempt to take that aspect of the inter human relationship and transfer it to the relationship relationship between man and God so the relationship though could be based this is a big thing for me as my as my listeners know on fear or on love I mean you could give something to somebody because you love them and that's why you want to show your love or you can give it because they have some kind of power over you which definitely fits in where we're dealing with God and it's like I kind of it's more of a placating kind of thing like I and in a lot of religions you do see that we're you know or even like I've been to Thailand in other places where you still see people putting the Buddhist putting food down next to you know the statue now is that out of love I want to give something they think the statues actually eating it or if it's just like I want to make sure that I'm okay and so I'm gonna do that so how does Leviticus or how does or Judaism deal with that aspect of our relationship with God right so the sort of buying off God is what we don't want to have and certainly what we try with the Torah in Judaism tries to distance us from the idea of you know God can be bribed that I've given a fat enough cow that I'm okay for the day so that not on the other hand the Torah and Judaism in general I think it's very realistic and it's understanding of human personality and it says yes there are there's an ideal relationship with God which is based almost exclusively on love but there's also other aspects too even a good relationship I heard someone say that was a cute idea I don't remember who but that you know fearing a spouse ultimately comes from from love meaning you're afraid of their reaction because you care about their reaction and you know the same thing applies to God that there's a fear aspect which is in order and appropriate and can even be part of a healthy ideal relationship so in the Torah in the Book of Leviticus you have different types of sacrifices that appropriately relate to different situations different states of minds if for example you have the Corbin toda which is saying thank you God you have sacrifices that are needed for their free will offerings that are a result of just wanting to give pure and simple out of love but then you have sin offerings and there's an idea again a relationship I you know I made a mistake I want to fix things up therefore I'm gonna do something not as a bribe but as an expression of the importance the relationship has in my life I think that's how we have to look at and I think the way that it's presented in in in Leviticus I mean I it's clear to me that this is not because God needs it Hashem doesn't need the sacrifice whatever we're doing is change us you know and that's and that's the whole point of this that in some way we need to be where we need to be and these kinds of actions ultimately change us to be the best that we can be sure hundred percent right I mean in general and that's the one of the questions it's raised god this neither house you know temple he doesn't he sacrifices but the bottom line is doesn't need anything on some level yeah that makes some a very difficult body the character personality too for us to connect to him that's why he creates all these avenues even the Torah itself you know is a difficult construction meaning that for God to speak in any language no matter how perfect we want to say Hebrew is and some people you know go to extreme levels about that it's limiting language human speech is necessarily limiting God limits himself in the same way as the Jewish mystics speak about seem film which means God contracts himself in order to release some of the perfection that he always constantly contains and makes space for something less than perfection to create the world when he writes the toll when he speaks out the Torah on some level by using words he is also being involved and seems some contracting himself to language which again the language of Torah as beautiful has so many possibilities we spoken about that before and the idea of seventy approaches in the Torah and and they're all correct in spite of that they're you know Khan's book about the Dingaan Z the the essence of something essence can't be fully comprehended in language and that's the bottom line that you know that we're dealing with God making room for mankind in all sorts of different ways well in the very beginning of creation he speaks the world into existence which is like maybe the ultimate in not the essence of it it's just like the physical part I guess the essence was already there maybe and these goes you know to the more mystical discussions so look I know that and some of my christian listeners and whom I've met and guided and one of the things that they said to me when the conversation gets very honest and open is Judaism is just so legalistic it's just all about do this and do that and not so much the essence and I believe there's a bit of truth in to anything that somebody says I don't think I hold all the truth I don't think Judaism holds all the truth and I think sometimes it may be because we didn't have the sacrifices or didn't have the temple that we got focused on the Torah and not on the essence meaning the Torah was given to us to learn in order to get closer to God and some people got they didn't get to the end they've started they focused they stopped at the means and so Torah study became study for this for the purpose of studying Torah and what happened to where we were supposed to go and using it as a vessel to get close to God like what would you say to that right and I think I think the observation is 100 percent correct that Judaism when it moved out of a living country and a living people and and went into the ghetto and was reduced to Anna's very urban type of life divorced from nature divorced from various types of work the force from governing itself so it definitely became may ceated and if that put its mark on contemporary Judaism so that we ended up over focusing on the details the the ideal is that the details are means to an end but the point of this Book of Leviticus in the Torah more generally is that you really want to perfect the ends then you need to do the details right so essentially you know one-foot Judaism is saying yes the the the the most important thing is the bigger ideas but the best way to get to the big ideas is to figure out all the details if you do one without the other well you've got one without the other you're doing something good but you're not perfecting what you know you're not being the best you can and again I think the idea that we're trying to understand in Leviticus is that yeah not everybody has to do everything there's specialization and priests have to do certain things that Israelites don't and the same division is do I understand the difference between Jews and Gentiles that the Jew is supposed to be that conduit for the rest of mankind that is able to transmit the message based on the very specific acts and ritual that he does which is supposed to lead to the bigger ideas so you know ideally I hope that were somehow moving back towards that certainly I think conversations like this which I have with more than just you move us in the right direction and I think also that the challenge when it's positive and constructive between Jews and Christians and Jews and Muslims you know it's it's not that critique is is not leveled only from Christians from others as well as like what's with the details I think it's positive because I think it challenges us you know for some Jews they they don't know what to do with that criticism either get you know very defensive or say oh you're right so I'm just gonna leave the details because you're right near those are so helpful but I think the you know what when Jews who are very involved in knowledgeable and you know there are many more and Jews like that these days are engaged in conversations with others of this type I think it's productive conversation and say well you know we're both trying to do similar things let's see how that works together and and you know I have this critique about what you're doing you have this critique about what I'm doing and let's talk about it you know it sometimes there's nothing there's we can't get anywhere but many times we can I think it's a good example so you and I are having this conversation at your home in Jerusalem and against all odds although the prophets would say it differently we're back now we're back to an Israel we're back as a people closing fast on the majority at least they're an absolute more than 50% of the Jewish people are who people who identify as Jewish now living in in our you know we're back as the indigenous people back into our homeland not somewhere else how do you see that as affecting Judaism now like what can we I know you're also and I want to tell this to my students you're also a very devoted to rabbi Nathan Lopez cordosa someone who I was honored to have on the show and whose ideas about maybe certain changes that we should be making now now that we're back home again are very very important to me so like where do you see that so that's a big question first of all right there's and I don't agree about everything on this table kudos that he doesn't be with himself about everything and he's open enough to be kids who say that was just part of his greatness right so I think coming back to Israel clearly creates a tremendous opportunity to live a fully Jewish life and create a bigger Judaism a more ambitious Judaism that's the opportunity the idea of Israel as a light for the nations interestingly as an aside you know sometimes we are in Israel say that we're being judged unfairly because we're judged by a double standard you know whenever X ination you know has refugees or has issues so they get away with it when Israel you know smallest thing happens and we're Oliver you know the media people don't never seen it true in their life read in their front page that you know the Jews injured the nose of someone and so well I agree that it can really go too far by the by the same token I welcome that double standard because I think that's exactly what we understand our identity to be to be a light unto the nations if you're gonna be a light you have to be better than everybody else and I think on some level it's a backhanded compliment this double standard expect more from the Jews again there it's a complicated topic and some of it comes from anti-semitism and so on and so forth but there's there's some truth to be taken from that so we have a new new opportunity living back in Israel like you said the majority the Jews absolutely are we making use of it I think time will tell certainly some interesting things have happened rough cook who Rabbi Abraham Isaac cook who actually lives before the creation of the state but was really a mystic visionary who saw what Judaism should be one of the Jews come back to Israel and some of the was very messianic so he had a vision which has you know caught the fancy of so many Jews here in Israel and yet we fall so far short of his great ideas that he had and it's it's sort of a paradox that here is there was this visionary who had these tremendous ideas that that really spoke exactly to what you're talking about to being that light light to the nations of impacting of creating something new and exciting and and you know bringing the rivers back to to Israel and and the end the stream of spirituality that that comes out of Zion and so on so forth so it's a bit of a paradox that here was this great visionary speaking about that before the State of Israel he died in 1933 and there's never been someone like that since and there's a lot of smaller voices with some interesting ideas you mentioned record ozone there and there are many others some in in in the diasporas well rabbi sacks of England also an interesting thinker but yet no one has you know since this rebek no one has taken off his his vision I think is that this he was going to be one of you know a forerunner of many people that are gonna be speaking like this and and having this type of vision and it's true that again people speak his ideas means his his works are everywhere and he's obviously one of the most famous rabbis and the influences and all sorts of rabbis and religious Jews and not religious Jews in Israel be that as it may somehow it never really took off and it's not clear that it is taking off you know again there are different streams there rise and fall and and you know there was a book that I reviewed recently by another rabbi who made some waves who was interesting that he was really sort of a someone really took ruth Cook's model and went with it further than anybody that I know this rough cigar was probably a near neighbor of yours and so there was a there was a different way of thinking a new way of thinking it's not clear to me that that's going anywhere fast either so as I said you know we live within history it's hard to know what's gonna be fifty years from now it's hard to know it's gonna be hundreds from now it's clear that we have a tremendous opportunity and it's clear that there's something going on exactly what it is and how to what extent will fulfill the potential that being back is is affording us it's hard to know well I think it's also important that for people to realize that the Torah is not just for religious people or people call themselves religious right or into more of the details shall we say it's one of the things that we see here in Israel and there's a whole peoplehood aspect here and you have now people getting interested in the text one of the nicest things that I'll ever hear when I'm guiding is after a day of guiding with people who wouldn't call themselves religious when they'll say well I'm gonna go look at the Tanakh now because well you're showing me today makes me understand that there's messages in this town off that I never thought related to me and ideas here that are exciting way beyond pulling it out pulling a scroll out on Saturday and reading it and that kind of thing just really doesn't do it for me I'd rather be somewhere else but it's interesting that you mentioned a few minutes ago that the nature aspect of it because one of the things that I see and again I'm privileged to be able to go around the country is what an agrarian people we are not just our calendar and how it's all around the cycle of holidays but for example Isaiah is famous you know I shall beat my Spears into plowshares you think about that it's not I shall beat my Spears into a bench and sit there and just watch I want to work it's a plowshare now pleasure is only gonna do it's supposed to do if somebody's using it right and it's a beautiful vision of peace isn't just hanging out peace means being able to work and no one bothers me which isn't you know I don't think I don't know if people listen to that and read that and understand or even I mean I was up on Mount cruising a mount for a high yesterday with a group school of girls and one of the things that wasn't sure about by the way you're listening to some Sunday so that's what I'm saying this is pre-taped okay I was I would never gosh I but but one of the things that I was talking some of that is the parable of your tongue you know this like crazy story from the book of Judges at right after get on if you guys don't know it go look it up and the parable is also all about nature right asking the olive tree if it'll take over the fig tree if it'll take over or the vine and then say okay well you guys are stuck with a thorn bush but all of this the image that is being drawn here is not just a nature image but it's the nature of the land of Israel and you actually cannot understand forget the message behind the parable you can't understand the broad strokes the picture that they're painting if you don't understand Israel and here we're back now and I stood up there and I thought well for the gazillion time Rashi and the great commentators of the Bible didn't really get to see this they didn't get to understand right absolutely I think there's that and there's the the connections nature which which people in the cold Eastern Europe villages and sums I you know in fact some Jews in in Germany and in Eastern Europe did work the land but bias land oh yeah by and large we were disconnected from any land which is and two steps removed and specifically from this land which you know I go out and and and walk in the forest and and orchards and wherever in Israel and there's a specific connection you're right every land has you know its own images as you mentioned that they're brought out in the Bible but these images are relating something very real that is beyond ideas and beyond words you know I mentioned before you can never get the essence of a thing but if you don't see it and feel it and smell it you don't even get to its external shell as I said you're two steps removed so certainly this allows the possibility of coming closer to what the Jewish tradition is all about and as you said one of the nice things about the return to the Land of Israel is that everybody living in Israel and all the Jews living in Israel have this connection with the land of hiking going and and you know it's it's different than the Boy Scouts in the United States or a Sierra Club it's part of the culture that has an effect and people are more connected even if they're not totally connected here in Israel again all that being said we're living at the beginning of this renewal and it's hard to know words going you know I see two steps forward and one step back and so it's the opposite and it's hard to know you know yeah I'm nonprofit and one hopes that one is living in the trajectory that's moving way up you know if you have if you own stocks and on the market yeah sometimes it goes up and sometimes goes down but you hope that the you know ideally it should soar that's and we live in situation when this positive bull market if you want and we're hoping that's just gonna soar but but it's hard to know I guess the the main things to do our part you know that's what I'm trying to do in my writing and my teaching and so on and so forth and I know it's what you're doing awesome what you do do you think that your what you do would be different if you weren't here in Israel could you even do this if you weren't here in Israel I could but I wouldn't have part of the reason I'm doing it is the way my career evolved and it would have clearly evolved in a different way and in the United States was very involved in educational administration and I was good at it and there's there's no reason why you know I would have thought to do a lot of writing I wouldn't have had the time or speaking outside to whatever response to beliefs I had directly or indirectly within it within a community so I wouldn't have you know I I it's interesting because on some level I am positively influenced by my living here in Israel in terms the connections the land being a part of this renewal and all these lovely things that we feel that's on the one hand on the other hand I see that people that are coming from experience and diaspora bring a certain wealth of tolerance and knowledge and there's there's all sorts of things that they bring which aren't necessarily here with people that are born here grew up here from a young age so you know I can mention this in one of our talks that exile is is definitely part of the Jewish experience that in as much of as being Israel's part of the experience we spent more time outside than inside and that's not by accident so I think that you know just like sadness or challenge makes us into better people exile and not being our home also has its role and as it can be painful it can be difficult we can be disconnected but all of that is part of creating a more rich and meaningful experience so I feel doubly blessed and that I experienced exile and it was in my case it was a pleasant exile you know the United States and even my tent in Western Europe was was you know pleasant was you know people for the most part and almost everybody I met like Jews or like me at least and you know almost never I mean a couple cases here and there but almost never encountered anti-semitism so you know it's hard for me to say I've suffered and exiled but be that as it may you know there are issues and there are hardships and you're running against the current and and all that and in spite the difficulties I'm thankful that I experienced that because for me personally it made me better so like any challenge and difficulty I don't wish it on my children but on the other hand that's what makes the Torah so rich makes Jewish experience so rich is not just looking for flowers and candy and and and living at home and lit and taking it easy but welcoming the difficulties that God throws our way with the understanding that it makes us people that are fit to be priests that you know you when you when you join the Marines you know the elite corps in the army so you have to work really hard you know it's it's not just well I'm gonna take it easy and I think I'd rather be in the Marines than in the army and that's what Jewish life is about so yes it's great being Israel and yes it's enhanced Who I am and what I'm writing and what I'm teaching but that's not to say that my experience outside of Israel hasn't also done that in very different ways well just as the people like we don't even get the Torah at Sinai until we've been eggs for hundreds of years and in a very difficult situation so it's clear that you know because Abraham could have stayed a promise' Jacob then you have your kids here in the twelve tribes and then I don't know somewhere near Tel Aviv we get the Torah and it's all good there's a there's a huge message here that it we're coming in from the Exile and bringing this in with us into the land and so I think this you know just sits on all of what we're doing here but your books your series in particular are called redeeming relevance which is I love alliteration so that's great but that it's not just this book out there that like the things that the messages which is why I enjoy them so much because just gets more relevant for me all the time that there's messages here that the Torah giving us that are not for another time in place that were just kind of because of tradition and whatever we're kinda used to it just bringing here but that what's at what the Torah gave us is for today as well as it was for three thousand years ago but I think it's the way from the very first book I pointed out that's the way Jews have studied her all the time not just rabbis giving this you know sermons which are relevant but disconnected to our text and not learning our texts and disconnected away one of the most beautiful things about the Jewish tradition is you have you know really erudite rabbis like Rashi mentioned or enough mana DS run bond or relational full version and up to her own time who could have written their commentaries in such a way that it's disconnected and no one would read him but that wasn't the point the point wasn't study for its own sake the point was what this this supposed to mean to me now and to my congregation that's the way Jews have always read the Torah and I think that's the eternality of the Torah is to look at it and say well okay so here the stories and here the patterns here are all these wonderful things what if anything does it have to say to me and you know one of the quips that I got when I started the series or in the middle of series is how you gonna make Leviticus relevant right so and the truth is it wasn't that hard it really wasn't once you start working on it and once you move beyond your prejudices it's there I look for it I mean I just came from visiting a friend who lost her husband and he and her two sons are priests they're cloning so she was telling me for example and this is one of the what's left over I suppose from the priesthood still for today that going to their father's funeral for her sons was the first time and they're well into their twenties was the first time in their lives had ever been to a cemetery like they had no idea what was going on because one of the prohibitions is for priests even until today to go into a cemetery yeah it's interesting I heard uh you know a cute idea um Hasidic idea and I apologize I don't remember who said it that the priests well the first part is not a Hasidic idea the first idea is that in order to give the Priestly Blessing it has to come from joy person instead of joy or at least not of sadness so priests are kept away from things that make one sad that's the reason some people most people in the Ashkenazi world don't give the priestly blessings outside of Israel except on holidays and here in Israel everybody gives it we're happier it's interesting you know just uh a detail which is the embodiment of something bigger of something that speaks to our returns the land but the the idea that I heard is that when you confront death even if you can understand it philosophically it's still hard to connect to God it's hard to be happy and it creates all sorts of stumbling blocks between the person and God and one's state of happiness which comes from a healthy connection with God therefore the priests are a toll it's not your job and as everybody has as I mentioned before special thieves you have folks you have to focus on and let you know this type of mourning situation and and connect interaction with the dead let someone else do it and and you know I think this is the idea of specialization didn't come around just with the Industrial Revolution it's something that is innate to the human condition as were communities we we live not as individuals everybody has a mountain and doing everything for himself or herself we're here to share in our religious experience and work together and priests are not to be involved with that role except very special circumstances such as you know a father or in this case the son should mourn for the father even if their priest has that override so to speak interestingly enough as I'm sure you know but not maybe all of your listeners is that the high priests would not do that even if it was you know his father or his son he would not you know go and follow and go to the cemetery there's a cute mission that speaks around about how he would follow the funeral procession for a distance right because there was some connection but it had to be very limited and in his case he really had to be connected to God almost to the exclusivity of you know concern with with his own family see that also like with Moses with Moshe Rabbeinu where he has also like major restrictions that's right and and we see that he has issues in terms of his family life the the there's an illusion in the Bible that his sons at least one of them didn't turn out so well and and and so on and so forth but they even without that we see this is very and I wrote about that in another book there's very little connection between Moses and his wife and his children because that wasn't his job and as I explained why it was important for him to get married and have children but he wasn't you know he was a monastic father and a monastic husband he really had to turn away from that and said well maybe I and if you figured out God told them but essentially you know it's not my role someone else is gonna have to do this and take care of my children and the truth is you know nobody can be perfect at everything and that takes its cost and a person might say well that's tragic how could God allow Moses not to take care of his children but the bottom line is you know as human beings in a zero-sum world we can't be perfect at everything and we always you know a person who's real has to make hard choices you're always cutting corners somewhere and for some people it's gonna be in one place and for other people it's going to be another place and again that's part of the Jewish tradition that I see one of the more esoteric stories I don't know if esoteric is the word also that I was when I guide is pestle mija especially when you're up new sheilo and there's this kind of alternate altar that's pretty much across the street or right in the same area and and the Rashi I believe saying that actually the priest that is brought up to be with mija is the grandson of Moshe that it's written Menasha but the noon is very small as so not to embarrass him but this is how far his grandson falls you know Jacob's grandsons are frying and Menashe the room other Menasha right who come out of Egypt with us and really join the Jewish people we bless our children and their names our sons and their names let's say on Friday night for those of us who do that in here you know Moses as grandson is like basically and you know an idol worshiper and and how absolutely tragic that is but I think that would resonate with a lot of people listening is those priorities a lot of a lot of leaders that we know a lot of big leaders are not great family men they're not great fathers or husbands even because they are focused on on their community and or really the extreme because the Torah tells you to try and have children at least that's the biggest like Jeremiah who was so caught up with his people as the Prophet and so concerned rightly so as it turns out that we're going to get exiled and the first temple would be destroyed that he himself doesn't build a family right in you know it's true in the in the secular world as well a lot of the major philosophers never got married for obvious reasons you only have a certain amount of hours in the day and and years and and days in the year if you want to become really great at something it's hard to do other things most people aren't that great and need to focus on living a balanced life which involves a little bit of this and a little bit of that but there are some people that need to choose that for themselves in some some people are guided by God into that role I was thinking of the lubavitcher rebbe who didn't got married but didn't have children well that that saved him a trance amount of time means it's it's a terrible way to look at it but on a real level you may not have been a little bother to read but you're saying had he had children even though it was a personal person listen he would have been a great person but as great I don't know I don't know and certainly not as available to his to his followers it's a you know it occurs can sometimes be a blessing and and it's a question of how to frame and how to understand it and you know that's one of the difficulties of life when we're talking about death as well as is that we're limited in how we frame things we don't understand why certain things happens as sometimes we were able to reframe things and see the blessing in the curves by the times we're not we're just we just see the curse that's all we see and I think that's a matter of faith to understand that yeah in the same way that there are times when we do see it that famous story about excuse me about rebbi akiva when he has you know he's walking on the way traveling and he has a rooster a donkey and I have a candle because it's good to have a candle whatever so he wants to lodge in a town they don't let him see us to lodge in the forest and you know the the in the meantime his donkey gets eaten and and his rooster gets eaten and even his light and it blows away so it's like miserable right but in the end there's brigands that comes to town destroyed the town and they were destroyed him as well had they known he was around by noise the camel out of a donkey by noise of the rooster by light so Rubik Eve actually had a very tragic and difficult life so what why does the Talmud tell us that story it's like everything is like a sugar-coated it's not the point the point of the Talmud do I understand it that's of that story of relating that story is to tell us here's an example we can see the blessing and the curse just realize that's always the case and that's what we cos receive exactly says I always say it's for the good you know in this particular case I actually saw it most of the time I didn't and that's you know especially people living in difficult times difficult situations we all have difficult situations that being said again we're in a blessed time whereas Jews living in Israel and even for all mankind certainly economically it's a tremendous blessing in the world in terms of what we have to eat of what we had available to us of all sorts of opportunities that are available to us mentioned communication between Jews and Christians I know the type of communication that's going on is such a different more positive level than you know we've lived together as twin religions for you know 2,000 years and you know most of the time wasn't so so nice but we're living in a time that there's tremendous blessing so you know sometimes when I feel challenged or I see other people being challenged I think of how babyish we are in comparison to the challenges that Jews certainly but mankind more generally faced throughout almost all of history compared to we're facing now you know we here in Israel are concerned and rightly so better security but when you you know think about the numbers and you think about the situation of you know how much safer Jews are in general and in Israel in particular today than we've almost ever been then it I think it's an important perspective to appreciate and as they and people some Jews somehow trusted God throughout all these terrible difficulties that they had for us to bring questions now seems you know a little bit weak it's all a matter of faith of even if we don't understand and a lot of things we don't understand or as Esther Waxman said many years ago when her son Knox Ron was was killed she said and people said but you prayed and there was a whole thing at the Kotel and thousands of people came and she said well you still have to ask but sometimes Hashem says no and it doesn't mean that you don't try and connect there's a bigger picture that we don't see that he does and and that's what we have to go with so rabbi friends persona tov thank you so much if people want to get the book of course to add to the collection of the rest of your books they already have or if they want to I know that you sometimes go out on speaking engagements and they can have you in person how do they get in contact so you know I like people speaking to be in person but easiest to get my gmail account going on a limb putting out on the radio but it's Francis not to have fr ANC is na ta F at Google like everybody else that I'm sorry at gmail not like everybody else yeah at gmail.com and I welcome any correspondence of any type certainly Amazon is gonna be a place to buy books that may not be available on Amazon right away though the other four volumes are you can google my name and you'll find what's available it's available from the publishers who again are neighbors of yours or in public nations which is actually based in Jerusalem but the the director lives not far from Eve any case I welcome everybody to continue the conversation with me it's the last book but the conversation continues where do you go from here now that you finished the five big ones no I knew you were gonna ask that question I want to keep interviewing years.i you can't drop it here for sure so I am as we speak working on another book which is something totally different than this series it's about the Jewish political tradition and what can offer to the world in terms of breaking the impasse between the more traditional folk and the more liberal universalistic progressive whatever label so I think there's a real impasse I think that what's been dubbed the culture wars is something deeper and more lasting than anything we've experienced for the last 150 200 years I think that society is coming to a difficult situation and it requires no answers I hope that I'll I mean I have some answers that I don't know if they're right answers but I have some suggestions based on Jewish tradition and I hope you will listen well you know if you want to interview me about those answers you have to at least to share some of these ideas we're gonna get a preview of that we'll come back before the book is published okay thank you so much rabbi at a tough I really appreciate you taking the time and I'm sure my listeners do this okay everybody you know you can write to me Eve at the land of yours Oh calm website new website is finally up so Eve Harrow ENCOM and you'll see where I'm gonna be next month actually just in a couple of weeks and all my goings on and of course catch up on some of the old shows so take care everybody once again thank you for listening thanks his tablet bent bent and to everybody at the land of this one network take care of you and goodbye for now for Rosh Chodesh Aadhaar bet this coming new moon we are doing the Land of Israel Network sabaton at the Dead Sea called the Israel inspired retreats where there's going to be Torah study and connection and meditation and prayer and we're going to be able to connect and to talk about everything that's going on in Israel today on spiritual levels it's going to be a really special weekend you can find out about it on the Land of Israel dot travel that's the Land of Israel dot to travel you can see all the details there we'd love to have you join us [Music]