The Truth About Hiring and Managing People | Feat. Chesky Weinberger

But the most common misconception that people have is that it'll figure itself out. Yeah, single-handedly. So, be meaning to say that there is a issue that's a slight issue or there issue with several employees. You know, there's a say time heals all pain, time will take care of it. And it doesn't. It It simply doesn't work that way. Human beings are complex creatures and we cannot pretend that if we don't have the conversations that need to be had as tough as they are, then it's just going to figure itself out. It won't. Very often it boils down to 5 minutes of discomfort to avoid 5 months of dysfunction. That's a line I use a lot because that's what it is. Just have that uncomfortable conversation. So often I speak with people that are already ready to leave the company and they finally have that conversation like, "Oh, sure. Yeah, I just didn't think of it." There's one thing I wish I can tell people is don't be afraid to have that conversation. Just do it respectfully. You're never going to find your future in the rearview mirror. So, your windshield is bigger than your rearview mirror. Look back enough to learn from your experiences, but ultimately look forward and move forward. >> Welcome to the Let's Talk Business Podcast, a project of the Ptex Group. Gain valuable actionable ideas from the world's top business leaders to help you take the next step in your business journey. And now, here is your host, Manny Hoffman. >> Coming to you from the Ptex headquarters in Brooklyn, New York. This is the podcast for no-nonsense advice to help you learn, grow, and lead. Today, I'm so excited to welcome our guest, Hesky Weinbrod. Hesky is the co-founder and COO of Top HR where he helps growing companies build stronger teams, improve hiring, and create the kind of structure that actually supports long-term growth. Known for his practical mindset and people-first approach, Hesky works closely with business owners to solve one of the hardest parts of running a company. What is that? Getting the people side right. In our conversation, we talk about why so many business owners wait too long to deal with people issues. How to know when it's time to hire, what strong hiring and interviewing should look like, and why better communication can often solve problems before they turn into real dysfunction. It's a fascinating topic and important for every business owner. So, let's get right to my conversation with Hesky Weinberger. Hesky, thank you so much for joining me on the Let's Talk Business podcast. >> Pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me. >> So, we've known each other for quite some time now. We've been collaborating on even multiple projects and businesses that I've been involved with. But, for some reason you weren't on the show, and I was speaking to a friend of mine, he said, you know, by the way, you should bring Hesky on the show. He says, "Hmm, I don't even know why he wasn't on the show yet." So, here you are. I'm excited for our conversation. It's a very important topic. So, let's dive in. Okay, so for our listeners, maybe some of some of some of our listeners heard about Topaz, heard about yourself. I'd like to get a little bit into the entrepreneur as well. So, give us a little bit of the backstory of Hesky. >> The backstory of Hesky, whoo, how much time do we have? >> We have time. >> The backstory of Hesky. So, I uh I grew up in Monsey. Great family, went through the system, started working pretty early, you know, for a Hasidic young man at least. And I learned the power of people, of mobilizing human resources, and and how to work with people, especially from a lot of different cultures. That was uh very eye-opening. Something as simple as how to communicate to people, even though we we're technically speaking the same language, we're not necessarily speaking the same language. And I was given the opportunity to go into management, to get into a management position at a large manufacturing company, and then ultimately again, got the opportunity to to get into more formal HR capacity. It started in employee relations where there was a union situation. Again, I had some very, very good people in upper management that believed in me, let me get into it. And yeah, that's how I got into formal human resources. >> Mhm. So, I want to I want to I want to go back a little bit and and then we'll we'll definitely speak about HR and and everything that you're involved today. Um It's usually it's it you you know, it's it's not the the most exciting part of any business to be involved with people. >> Mhm. >> You must have had an experience or two that taught you that if we're going to figure out people, everything else will will figure itself out as well. What is that that that drove you into this you know, to getting into this space? >> There were a couple of experiences. One that stands out as you're asking that question, I kind of I'm a I'm a visual person, so it sprung right into my head. When I was getting started and working in the warehouse in uh a rough part of New Jersey. Um and I you know, as I was kind of getting into management and I had to ask people in the warehouse to do things, to bring, so on and so forth. There was one guy, I'm just going to use his first name, Shawn, who caught me at a He knew the place well. He caught me in the area where there's no cameras and he flipped out a switchblade to my rib cage and he said, "One more time, you tell me to do something like that, this is going into it." It's something to that degree. Um and that was an eye-opening moment to me because I didn't think I was doing anything wrong. I know I wasn't doing anything wrong. I was doing my job and you know, just asking him to do whatever. So, I'm like, "This person is ready to go down that track, then I I really need to rethink how I'm communicating and people for safety and also if I want to you know, working with people. Um I I need to figure out how to do better. So, that was a real moment to, you know, at a lower level and and of course there were many since then. >> Mhm. And is there a early moment where you decided, okay, HR is something I could make a professional around? Like, you have seen people, let's say, will like like today it's very normal a person should be hired as director of HR. >> Mhm. >> Smaller companies in the past didn't have that. It was basically the person in charge of operations would also hire or the the owner of the company would be the person hiring people. Um at which point did you decide that we can make a business around actually offering HR solutions? >> It's a great question. There were a couple of moments that gave me the thought that this could be a good idea. And and again, the titles are interesting because, you know, director is is typically of a function in corporate America that has a certain meaning and and level of experience. The moment that I realized it was it wasn't a singular moment. There were many. So, again, I was responsible ultimately for managing the HR function for a great company for many years and people would reach out and ask for support and then my business partner, Mendy Eppenheim, had a similar experience where people would reach out. And that's how it's just how it works in our community. I'm sure you get a lot of people asking you marketing questions constantly. Not that they're necessarily ready to hire. Just this is what you do and you know, shoo. >> Too many. >> Yeah, right? And we try to help as much as possible. >> Sure. >> At some point I realized, look, this is this is our people. This is how we do it, right? We get in and ask questions later and I'm I'm seeing that there's a real need and they don't have who to turn to because at that point I was fairly young and early in my career and there were people with serious businesses and a lot of employees coming to me and sharing feedback how much the guidance helped them and ultimately it clicked at the beginning of COVID because that's when the rules were crazy, who's considered an essential business and who isn't considered essential. There were a couple other events that led up to it to the real aha moment to give this a go, but COVID is really what did it where okay, you know, this is there's a real need. People need help navigating it and yeah. Rest is history as they say. >> Yeah, there's there's um a piece that I always share with uh businesses. Obviously, it's a it's a very common uh thing out there, which is the four P's: people, process, product, and obviously profit. And I always say that for most businesses, it's goes in this order, which means is if you have the the the right people, they'll figure out the right process, and they'll figure out the the the product, and ultimately with the help of the schmuck, you're going to have the profit. Now, if you have the wrong people, you could have the most innovative product. Like you some people have this amazing ideas and really could really change the revolutionize the world. >> Mhm. >> But the wrong people are executing it, and you're not getting to the results. And then you could have people phenomenal people, the product is the least concern. It's pens, you know, it's a common product that's been around for for generations. But just have good people that have built good relationships, buy good, build sell goods, and then all of a sudden they they have a multi-million dollar business. So, I believe that people is the center focus. I think I've mentioned it many times on the show, and I think we had a we had him on the show really early on um Brian Scudamore from 1-800-Got-Junk, and he he said a line that stuck with me, which he said that most people most people in the past used to say, "I'm in the service business. I'm the product business. I'm in the you know, in this business and that business." That's how they you define like what you do. Today, we're all in the people business. Uh regardless of what you do and how the execution of transaction happens, we're all in the people business. That's why ask any leader, any business owner, so much of their effort is going into the people. Hiring, firing, accountability, KPIs, and everything around the people. So, it's definitely a very important aspect of the success of the business. So, having said that, I want to ask you the right you know, the the the next question, which is when you get hired for a company, like what is the like what is the biggest misconception you see business owners do around people? >> Wow. That's a great lead-up and a great question. The lead-up is very true. Those four P's is you slice it like that, you covered every every area of it, and it does in fact start with the people. To answer your question directly, the most common misconception that people have is that it'll figure itself out. Yeah, single-handedly. That that's what it has to be. Meaning to say that there is a issue that's a slight issue, or there are issues with several employees, and just let it be, and it'll time, you know, there's a saying time heals all pain, time will take care of it. And it doesn't. It It simply doesn't work that way. Human beings are complex creatures, and we cannot pretend that if we don't have the conversations that need to be had, as tough as they are, then it's just going to figure itself out. It won't. It's It's very often it boils down to 5 minutes of discomfort to avoid 5 months of dysfunction. That's a line I use a lot, because that's what it is. Just have that uncomfortable conversation. >> Wow. Yeah, the analogy I use for those type of things is is like a parking ticket. If you ignore the parking ticket, it doesn't go away. It actually adds interest. >> True. >> So, it's there. If it's there, it's there. It just doesn't heal on its own. But obviously you're you're mentioning if you have a bad hire, or or I wouldn't even say bad hire, I would say maybe even not a misalignment of a hire. Like it's just sitting in the wrong seat. Um let let's start a little bit earlier in the process is I've seen a lot of business owners, let's say they start off the first hire, the second hire, the third hire, that that are even confused in in the process itself. Like like let's walk through a a a healthy company. When are they seeing, okay, we're need of a hire and what should the process be? Obviously, we don't have to go every go through every single detail, but what are the fundamentals of you say non-negotiable. These are the things that you must have prior to hiring. It's like this, you know that you have the right you're equipped to make the right decisions at least. >> Yeah. I'm going to start with tying it into the the P's and I'm going to focus more on the practical element. The technicals is boring. Practically, to answer that question in one word, I would say the most essential thing to have before making a hire is clarity. Clarity on what problem you're trying to solve by hiring this person and what does success look like. Um and and I even want to go one step back on the communication piece. The same goes for positive, right? It's not just when you have a bad hire. Communicating positive and and positive reinforcement is is important. But to to this point, knowing clearly what you want this What does success look like? A lot of people many many of us move very quickly and in our brain it makes sense and in theory it makes sense and then we put the word out and we start interviewing. Something as simple as having a job description is invaluable for somebody looking to hire not accomplish anything, but know what they're hoping to delegate and what to refer back to when they find themselves in the second, third, fourth, or fifth day or week or whatever it is. Like, what what What are we doing here? That's really really important. Be clear with why you need to hire, what problem you're looking to solve, what problem you want this person to solve, and then be clear with what your arrangement is going to be and have it documented. Here's my HR hat coming out a little bit. Uh if you have a conversation around what vacation is going to look like, what compensation is going to look like, put it together in a document so you can refer back to it. Clarity. Clarity is is is essential. >> I I This You've mentioned this and obviously it's it's it sounds like you know, it's obviously the the the ABCs of hiring, but it's it's it's mind-boggling how many small business owners don't take the the minimum effort to put together their thought process of what the job description would look like, what the job will entail. I I think I think that that at minimum, if somebody if you hire someone and and that person gives you basically a 3/4 of their day, you know, we know we have 24 hours a day, eight of it is taken before we start. Actually, I'm sorry, half of it is taken before we start. So, we stay with that 6 to 8 hours and all of that where we're going to be spending our time and that person, hopefully with the right intention, is giving it to your business. And I think it's it's a moral obligation to be clear of how we're going to measure success. Like, how does success look in this job? Because so many times it becomes so messy, it becomes a personal attack or I am good for the job, I'm not good for the job. It could be so factual driven. You know, you could stay friends for the rest of your life and it's just a factual thing, you know, we hired you for this job, this is the outcome we were expecting. Unfortunately, the outcome is not there for whatever reason and then it's just a fact it's just a factual conversation and it could take 5 minutes. When it soon as it becomes emotional, it has to take 5 hours. >> Yeah, very very true. >> Mhm. Got it. Now, in terms of of of let's talk about the job description for a second. I know that a lot of people, and especially today with tools out there like to help you create it and becomes so complex. All of a sudden it's a three-page document of all kinds of you know, fluffy stuff that will be part of your your job description. What do you recommend as as minimum just to get there just that there's a document available for the job description? >> Sure. So, you touched on tools, so I'm going to tie the answer into tools in in terms of creating it. I'm going to address it to business owner at any level, but especially we're talking about those those smaller ones. How do you know when you're ready to hire? Is when you're doing work that you could be making more money by not doing and a simple way to get started to create a job description is jot down the tasks that you're doing that you feel like you want to delegate or you're able to delegate that doesn't require you. As you go through your work for a couple days to a week, keep a tab open and as you're working, check in and just start jotting down tasks. That's a simple way to get started. Then you can pop that into any uh chat GPT or whatever it is to create it into a job description with and tell chat GPT or whatever your preferred, you know, tool is is don't don't use fluff. Like keep it results-driven and outcome-focused. A good job description and the same is true for a resume. I'll throw that out there. Should not be more than a page or two most, you know, most time and it and it should be focused on outcomes. It should be very very outcome-driven. Both again, the job description side and people on the resume side, it's it's about what was the outcome, not tasks. Some tasks, but also what's What do you hope is going to happen because of this? That's really what a good job description looks like. >> Mhm. Um let's talk a little bit about the the interviewing process. You know, you go out there and you you find a bunch of candidates you interview. Especially we're talking to people maybe they have less of a structured HR department. Again, I I will dive in a little bit more in the structured HR and and when you get to that level in a minute, but what I've seen is you know, there's the hard skills, there's soft skills, there's the culture fit. What type of emphasis do you feel a business owner needs to do in the interviewing process to make sure that the candidate is is a candidate that might, you know, might make it to the finish line and ultimately bring value to the company. >> Wow, what a good question, Manny. That's that's a powerful one and and the way you phrased it, you mentioned what do I feel and what I've seen and soft and hard skills, how they all kind of comes together. >> Sure. >> I'll take a step back to answer you mentioned earlier a line you heard from one of your early guests that we're all in the people business and I want to emphasize really how important that interview really is cuz I agree with that wholeheartedly. We are all in the people especially those that are in either ABA, you know, health care, whatever it is, they are literally in the people business, but everybody is. So, the interview process is a critical juncture and Simon Sinek says, you know, hiring hiring an employee is like adopting a child. They can bring you endless joy and and it fill fill in the blank. So, the interview process is a great time and a great opportunity to be smart about it. Um what I I want to answer your question directly and I'll elaborate on it. You know, you know, there's an old saying, you can train skills, you can't train attitude. There's a lot of truth to that. It really depends what the technical skills are, but I would say cultural fit is very important. Again, another another point you made earlier was spend a lot of time at work and and with the people that you're working with. So, if they have the most elite technical capabilities for the role, however, they just don't mesh with the team, it's not going to be a pleasant environment and the results are simply not going to be there. So, I would put a decent emphasis on soft skills. At the same time, I wouldn't over emphasize it it because in the end of the day, it's it's work. It's a job. So, they have to fit the culture. There has to be some chemistry over there, but not, you know, it's not all that. You don't have to completely feel it. Trust your gut. You don't have to like feel so much that this is, you know, really somebody that I want unless it's a very senior position, you know, then I then maybe I would put a little bit more of an emphasis on it. So, generally speaking, soft skills is almost more important than hard skills to a degree, but not that they're closely related. I'll put a little bit more of an emphasis on soft skills just because when we understand each other, we speak the same language, we're able to accomplish more. And and having a structured interview is is something that doesn't take a lot for an employer to do and it's you never get a second chance to make a first impression. So, it's important to be prepared and I've early on in my HR career, I was interviewing a candidate and she told me, "Wow, you know, you did a really good interview. Thank you." And I'm like, "That's a I mean, yeah, I appreciate it, but thanks." She's like, "You'd be surprised how many interviews I've been on where I just sit down and it's like a awkward silence and nobody knows where to start. So, present yourself. You're going to run an interview, have a couple questions, have a job description ideally ready, something to refer back to. So, it should be structured and and a great tip that I I want to share is to lead with open-ended questions. Have people share because people can rehearse for an interview, especially with the technology available today and if it's a remote interview, they could be reading off another screen. When you when you open a question with tell me about as opposed to what, you're likely you're creating a platform for them to speak freely and that's where you really get to know the person. >> Mhm. Um I'll just add a little bit on that is on the open-ended questions is we we you know, we have this model which is obviously I I think Patrick Lencioni has which is the humble, hungry, and smart. Like the you know, what he wants to see in a great candidate and I go I go through the exercises, but but in in in our interviewing process, you could achieve that people always ask me, "How do you know in one interview like the humble the humble, hungry, and smart?" Is if you lead with open-ended questions, you could ask certain questions based on the response, you'll see if this person's humble. You see how they if they speak about only I I I I and and the company will fall apart because I left now and then everything will fall you know, versus we as a team, we worked on that, but I oversaw the team and I like So, obviously you want that confidence, but you want to see the the language. The same is you know, I like people always ask me like I I interviewed a candidate and right away he wants to know the growth plan. I like what's the growth potential? And and I and I say it's a good thing. You want a growth minded person, you know, unless it's a it's a very technical assembly line type of thing. You want them to just pick and pack and you don't want them to ask questions. There's room for that as well. There's you know, different positions for that, but if you're looking to hire someone in leadership, yeah, you know, of course they should want to ask that question. >> Yeah, and and subject matter experts can do very well for themselves. I want to put that out for the people that feel like they're not made for leadership. Yeah, they they can do well as a subject matter experts as well. >> Yeah, this just reminds me like like like we have a template where like when we interview like a day before the interview like there's an email that goes out to the candidate which actually it specifies like let's we want you to ask as many questions that we can ask from you. Like the candidate as well. Like like they're they're they're coming they also want to they should like some people feel them so desperate for the job that whatever it's going to you know, whatever it's going to take I'm going to just be there and answer the questions, but guess what? You should also have preferences for yourself what you want because again, you're going to be spending six to eight hours a day or whatever it is and it sometimes it's the peak of your life in terms of an environment you want to be. You want to make sure it's the right fit for you. You know, the worst thing is you could you could do for your family for yourself is come home every every every day exhausted that I don't want to work in that company. >> Right. Very true. Very true. I think the cadence and and where in the interview where those questions are asked is important as well and the tone in which they're asked. However, an interview should be an extremely transparent process on on both sides. There's no use in in presenting this big rosy picture when you know, it's a I'm not saying the extreme in in either direction. However, a candidate should be very comfortable to ask questions as should the prospective employer. There has to be transparency to set the tone for a real long-lasting relationship. >> Got it. Before we dive into this week's episode, I wanted to share an opportunity that many business owners are already taking advantage of. If you're feeling stuck or unsure about your next move in your business, there's still time to turn things around. That's where a clarity session comes in. This is a focused one-time strategy session with me personally where we'll break down your biggest challenges, identify opportunities, and map out your best next steps for your business. You'll walk away with a clear action plan to move forward with confidence. Now, I want to make this clear from the get-go. This is not an ongoing consulting offer. You know your business best. This session is simply about giving you the clarity and direction you need to take action and make the rest of the year a success. Many entrepreneurs have already gained incredible value from those sessions. So, don't miss out. Reach out to me now by emailing [email protected]. I look forward speaking to you and seeing how I can bring more clarity to your business. >> Now, let's talk a little bit about something we've seen very many times where the need of an employee is growing. >> Mhm. >> And obviously they want to make more money. They want to know they're of a fair value. Like, what are they bringing to the table? You have been sitting in in in HR with the company to with your company in larger companies. And that's always understanding, that's always the you know, we're talking about a great employee. >> Mhm. >> But they're just at a certain threshold, a certain you know, certain timing where they didn't get any raises and stuff like that. What is a conversation that our listeners could understand? Like, what go what goes on the mind of a business owner? What you go into the mind of a an employee? What are the places where a good conversation could happen to make sure that they understand the the fair exchange of value? >> It's a great question again. I'm going to start with the employees perspective because you started with somebody the story you're painting is where somebody's needs are growing. So I want to start there and then I'll go to the employer's mindset. I I can appreciate somebody that needs are growing and I want to be very sensitive when I say this that that does not justify them going to ask for a raise. I I have a lot of sympathy for people in in that situation. However, they want to be rewarded for the value that they bring. And again, I want to be sensitive to people that have struggles you know, building a family or starting one. Why should they be compensated less if they're adding equal or greater value than the next person because they have their needs or their family needs are greater. I think that it's an exchange of value. It's a is fundamentally what it should be built on, which ties into the next part. What goes through the mind of the employer is what it should be ideally is it's an exchange of value and there's a fair market value for everything. What we saw during COVID was a ridiculous spike in what the market value was and it threw the whole market off and then now we're seeing you know, the whiplash and and play out in a very very real way. So the the single word answer is it's a value-based transaction and there's a fair market value from most any role and then there's an organization specific additional value. Meaning to say when somebody has context for this organization, this product or service, it's more. I'll use you know, a a CFO as an example. Or a director of operations. Yeah, ask ask five people what a director of operations is and you're going to get five different answers. It's a very and same thing for a CFO even though there's a a definition it's it's just changes. So for the employee, if their needs are increasing, their mindset should be how do I add more value to make a business argument to ask for more money. That's the healthiest way they should approach it. And that's the smartest way to do it. Because if you have a conversation like that with an employer, you're probably going to be happy with the outcome. Um employers take it into consideration to some degree, some more than they should and some more than others. However, the smart and healthy organizations are looking at the value this person brings and also I encourage them to look at the cost of replacement sometimes, right? It depends on the situation. I think employers undermine how much the turnover in employment. There are just the time that you lose a productivity in the position that has a dollar value. The cost if you're going to use a recruiter or even if not, cost of time, training, lost productivity, all that it's a pretty significant amount. It's in the double digits of percentage is what it what a a company's losing in that time. So, take that into consideration when you're negotiating and also be creative. I'll tell that to both the employee and the employer, be creative. And it's not just always about the dollar directly. There could be benefits, there could be you know, just incentive. Yeah, other ways to go about it. Yeah. >> Yeah, I'll just add to this. I think you've made a great point is um you know, in sometimes you have a good great employee and this is for you know, to you know, to give some tips for the employees out there listening is you could have a great employee that made a huge impact, but at one point things are settled and they're just doing the day-to-day. Keeping a tab of of the accomplishments and when you're having these conversations coming in prepared >> Mhm. >> I I think is is a huge it's huge value of piece that sometimes go unnoticed because you know, you're here for 3 years in the company you've you've imple- implemented major systems and change. Now it's the norm. This is how we operate. This is the system we use. So the your contribution to the as we said before, the fair exchange of value, your contribution as a whole has an impact in the long run. And I think I think I think that's that's sometimes an a deciding factor if it's presented properly for a business owner to decide, okay, is it worth, you know, to go through the whole hassle of know, having to rehire someone or this person is worth it. And if I'm incentivizing him, keeping him motivated, what could be the difference? So that's a that's a great point. I I want to shift the conversation a little bit to actually try to when is the when is the time when a company matures where real HR has to play a play a role. So when I'm to obviously for our listeners, real HR, just from my perspective, means is there a direct person for HR? Is there handbooks? Is there systems, processes, PTOs? Like give us just the the glimpse of that, making sure that our listeners understand at which point the company is mature enough that they need to take this seriously. >> Sure. Tying back into what we were talking about earlier, man. You you mentioned everybody's in the people business. So even small businesses, there is already an element of an HR function. What you're asking is is when it should be formalized. And it's there's no one-size-fits-all rule because it depends on the personality of the people in leadership. Some people have greater people skills and they're able to, you know, move it along a little bit longer than others. Best practice, you know, from from a HR training perspective is once you have one employee or more, there should be some thought put into it. For the most part, that's not applicable to most most people in our business community. I think before you do your first hire, the basic you should have is, like I said earlier, a written agreement just to refer back to and and what that looks like. Most laws apply to employers the five or 10 plus, there are some nuances where the one where five or 10 plus they should start doing some basic due diligence and research just to have a little bit of a framework. There are laws that apply to them in terms of paid sick leave, paid family leave, that type of thing. 15 employees plus, again, it really depends on on industries and on personalities. I would say when somebody's at 15 and growing, you know, pretty aggressively, it might be worth having a conversation with an HR professional, but definitely beyond 20 25, again, it very very relevant entry to the type of employees. If it's more professional employees, it could be a little bit more than that. If it's very labor intensive, it could be less than that because there's a safety element. But yeah, I would say probably somewhere around 5 10 is a good day to start thinking about it, but if somebody has really strong people skills and good research skills, they might be able to stretch it a little bit longer. Uh again, when when they should have a structured PTO, legally most states five plus employees, but you can you can do that. You can figure that out on your own. You don't need to do that professionally at that point yet. Once you have more and you find yourself a lot of times recreating the wheel when somebody asks for a day off for a vacation for a holiday, for any anything like that, you like, "Well, what did we do last time? What did we do this?" That's probably time you're spending more time than you feel like you should be. That's probably the right time to really get serious about documenting everything in a real way and and that should be the basis of an answer. Employees shouldn't have to ask when they can take a vacation and what that looks like. You don't want them to have to think, "What you know, what how's he going to react or how's she going to react if I ask for a vacation?" It's it's not going to They should know what they're signing up for and and what they get and just simply put in the days. >> Mhm. What about the the the legal requirements for a an official company handbook. >> So, I want to be careful how I answer this, and I'm going to give a little disclaimer. Nothing over here is individual legal advice. I'm not a lawyer, I'm an HR professional. That being said, there are a bunch of policies that need to be communicated to an employee. The most efficient way to do that is through an employee handbook. Having an employee handbook is not necessarily the only way to do that. It could be done through labor posters, multiple emails, communications, policies hung on the wall, that type of thing. So, yeah, to to have one again, practically speaking, at the point where somebody has five or more employees, definitely 10, they are going to get questions. 10 human beings, you can expect a question at least once a month about a day off. It could be accomplished in an expanded offer letter like a mini handbook with the appropriate digital labor posters communicated. So, being an employer in the United States and many other countries, I'll focus on the American listeners, comes with a with a lot of requirements, and it's better that you know about it before you're educated on it. So, >> That's a good line. >> Yeah. Yeah. And it's really not that difficult. It just sounds complex. It's not that difficult when you break it down, it's it's not that difficult to comply. >> So, so there's this notion out there that the sooner as we become very official, we have an HR department, and we have this and that, it it it actually takes away from the culture of the company. Like till now, it's friendly, it's it's it's a as a family. We have like these policies, these all as soon as there's official policies, takes away from the culture of the company. Do you believe in that? >> I would make the argument that it's the exact opposite, because a lot of these quote-unquote family environments, I see how you're smiling. You know exactly where I'm going with this. It's a surface-level family environment. Once you start digging a little bit deeper, there are a lot of challenges and we're working with a company right now that grew very nicely and they made it very clear when they hired us, we want to maintain that friendly energy and I'm all about it. So, having official policies is just being fair and clear with expectations, with what happens when somebody needs to take a leave of absence, somebody's going to go on a maternity leave, somebody loses a family member so that there's a a sense of being fair across the board and not why did you let that person was that family office? That Wait, why that person was able to take a vacation for two? Why can't I go? Right? So, it just about being clear with how we operate. Again, you can color outside of the lines a little bit, but there needs to be lines to color out of. Otherwise, it's it's just a free-for-all and ultimately it drives a negative sentiment. So, yeah, being ridiculous that there's a you know, with corporate No, with clout. Let's be Let's just bring clarity to how we operate as an organization, how we treat our employees and and it reminds me now of a project we worked on together for a client where they wanted specific language that it should be very much in line with their vision of an organization and friendly and that's perfectly fine. You can accomplish both. It does not need to be very rigid. It needs to be communicated clearly. >> Yeah, and it's also there's this there's a document and then there's your behavior. Yeah. So, you're still behaving and and communicating and and and and you know, where the culture is being like I also feel that that the word culture in general, obviously it's also um it's it's the foundation of people. There's a misconception out there where people think culture means, you know ping pong tables and babysitting service, you know, a good culture means that a culture of excellence, which means the systems, processes, the clear communication, there's it's it's just a a thriving culture, but everything is in place. Like people don't like to work for companies that are all over the place and I don't know today what I'm going to have to do tomorrow and so on and so forth. People want to work they know I'm contributing, I know what my job description is, I know what I need to how I fit in with the bigger picture. >> This episode of the Let's Talk Business podcast is sponsored by Flow Digital and Pipedrive. Sales is the lifeblood of every business. No sales means no revenue and no business. So if you are a business owner or in sales, you already know how important it is to have a proper CRM. A good CRM helps you manage your sales process and keeps leads from falling through the cracks and make sure you have the proper reporting so you could analyze what's happening every single day. If the CRM is too complicated or not set set up properly, the team just won't use it. When that happens leads get lost, follow-up get missed and ultimately deals stall. That's where Pipedrive comes in. Pipedrive is an easy-to-use CRM designed to make tracking and sales process simple. You can see your pipeline at a glance, move deals forward and make sure you never miss a follow-up and with built-in AI, get insights to help you close more deals. But that's not all. Easy-to-use doesn't always mean efficient. That's where Flow Digital steps in. I'm personally a Flow Digital client that helped me set up the Pipedrive at Pitex. Speaking from personal experience, I could attest they're the best in the business at setting up CRMs and automating the sales workflow. As one of the top Pipedrive experts, Flow Digital builds automation and AI-powered workflows that handle the busy work. Pipedrive becomes one of your most powerful tools for your sales people. As a listener to the show, you can sign up for a free Pipedrive trial at flow.digital/ltb where you'll get a 45-day trial of Pipedrive plus you'll be able to get a 45-minute consultation to get your CRM set up the right way. Once again, that's flow.digital/ltb. So, you get the best of both worlds. You get the easiest CRM out there, which is Pipedrive, and you get flow.digital to help you set it up. Remember, your business and your sales team will always thank you for setting the right system so they could focus on closing more sales. >> Obviously, there's two types of companies that probably reach out to you. They're companies that reach out to you, they're starting out, and they're they're building this big foundation. They want to make sure that's built out properly. Then there are companies that are maybe it might be a mess and and and they feel, "Okay, we need to bring in a HR professional to to figure out what their next steps are." What are usually the places when you come into a company? Obviously, every story is different, but where is like like you know, like a consultant comes in the company, there's always like this immediate fixes because they'll they know that the low-hanging fruits, as we call that, that are definitely places where there's always room for improvement immediately. What are the places where you like you would say you find immediately most of the companies are lacking? Ah. It's a It's a tough question to answer because companies and and tying back to the culture piece are so different. They're so different based on the leadership, how long they've been around. Where the the low-hanging fruits in most organizations is this might sound cliché is facilitating conversations, meetings, which is a business discipline more than a people discipline, but because again, we're all in the people business. Just facilitating communication. So, it starts by listening and then making sure the right people are speaking to the right people on a consistent basis. That typically lowers the temperature if it's that type of company. So, there are instances where people reach out where where they're, you know, facing a labor investigation or something to that effect. They don't have a choice at that point really. It's just who's going to be the one. Those that are reaching out proactively, the we come in often time. I'm going to use the example you gave of if it's a mess, then it's very easy to make an impact just bring a little bit of organization and and flow. But you'll be surprised, man. You'll be surprised how many organizations with a significant amount of employees, there is no standing meetings just Yeah, so facilitating those in a healthy way and making sure that so often times you start those meetings it becomes very heated very quickly. So being a part of that training them on having that that's probably the lowest hanging fruit more often than not. And then the other one is is just clarity and and people operating skills. In other words, a handbook, right? How do we treat different situations that arise in a in a human being's life? Those are the lowest hanging fruits. >> And and and in terms of going back to the culture conversation. So now we spoke spoke more like more of the practical part and the legal aspects of things. In terms of improvement in culture, let's say with you know, our people are not satisfied. There's all of they're all over the place. It's it's definitely harder in existing culture to try to change the culture. I've been involved in companies and what are the steps they you would take with a company in terms of trying to move the culture to the right place where it needs to be? >> Yeah, absolutely that probably one of the that's a million dollar question, right? And and the way to start with that is is what is a company culture? And the answer to that is the company culture is everything that's unspoken. That's what speaks volumes between employees and and personnel. So the The culture typically gets, you know, comes from the top down very often, not always, but very often it comes from the top down and understanding the mindset of the founder owner leadership is going to let us know what we have to work with when we're trying to fix a broken culture. So, a broken company culture is let's say there are people from a variety of backgrounds, ethnicities, genders, and they feel and it doesn't necessarily need to be that way. They feel like they're being treated differently. That's going to create a toxic company culture where treatment is not being or policy, even unwritten policy, is not being applied fairly. So, walking into such an organization and understanding what's the leaders' mindset. More often than not, they're good people. They simply don't have the headspace to focus on it. They have to take care of financials for whatever reason it is and they just don't have the time for it and they're happy to have somebody to partner with and will ask the right questions to understand, again, ideally first the basics and then the a budget to work on on really fixing it. So, what that would look like is initially a conversation with leadership team and then speaking with it with people. Uh we have probably a dozen team members as we're speaking right now at a variety of accounts, clients that they're speaking with on site, listening to the leadership or individual people moving this along. So, if I had to, again, I like to kind of start with one word, it's it's facilitating healthy communication about objectives, challenges, and then potential solutions, ultimately executing those solutions. >> Mhm. Um in terms of let's talk about the overall market. You know, obviously a lot has changed. You mentioned earlier in the conversation about COVID and how things were at that point. We're seeing a lot has changed in general about how people like the people's behavior about a a position in general. >> Mhm. >> And then now with the increase of AI and and tools like that, jobs either get eliminated, jobs get combined, or business owners are expecting employees to utilize tools in order to be more efficient. What are you seeing in market that that it's worth sharing for our listeners? >> Sure. So, what we're seeing in the market is that first, people are very lonely. People are very lonely, and those that have a support system outside of work or network community outside of work are a little bit less impacted, but not necessarily. So, the more technology evolves, and again, this is what Topaz HR is betting on is that the more technology evolves, people are still going to want to talk to people. And and deal with people. So, what we're seeing is, and this is not unique to any industry, is yes, technology is evolving, yes, people can be more efficient, then yes, people can be more effective. However, at work, we're spending a lot of time there together. People want to be treated humanly, and people have a lot of a lower barometer for nonsense that they did in the past. So, our parents and grandparents were happy to have a job in a factory, right? And that's that's what work was, and you didn't pick your head up much or say anything. Today's day, and the people entering the workforce now are a lot smarter, have a lot more information at their fingertips, and they're not about that nonsense. So, I My first thing I would say is don't even try. Don't even try doing it any other way than smartly and treating people with dignity and respect. And practically, what that looks like is being clear with expectations. Don't be shy to say what your expectations are. Communicate it respectfully. As it relates to technology, yes, there are some positions that are being eliminated. Yes, there are going to be more. Um I saw a great line. There are two types of companies in the future. Those that adapted to the new technology, and those that were in business. Right? So, everybody should look at it. Just communicate. Say, "Hey, you know, I don't know." I see this a lot. "How can you be more effective? How can we be more efficient? You know, is does a week or two sound fair to research and and see what we can introduce as an organization? That's a great, you know, conversation to have. Create a little internal challenge by department heads who can come up with the greatest way to be more efficient or effective leveraging technology. You know, those those are some some small useful tips, but ultimately you hear me say this all the time, just talk to people like people and treat them like people. You'll you'll get really far. >> What are the core services that Topaz offers for companies? >> The core services Topaz offers for companies is very extensive. All relates around people. In a nutshell, it's from hire to fire and everything in between. Cradle to grave, another great way to say it. We we help organizations define the talent they need and be be clear. Find the talent, create a nice onboarding process, not just the technical paperwork, but make sure that the expectations are clear. Person shows up their first day, they know what it is. To fully managing HR departments for many organizations. So, it's you know, being on call reactively for a smaller organization setting them up. Yeah, the core services are making sure you and your people are on the same wavelength. And and that that plays out in a lot of different ways. >> Got it. Hey listeners, are you struggling to create beautiful looking proposals? Is it a hassle every time you need to prepare a quote or proposal for your clients? Is collecting signatures still a manual process? Well, it's time to upgrade to PandaDoc. At PTech, we use PandaDoc for all our proposals, employee documentation, and so much more. It saves us time, keeps everything organized, and our documents look incredibly professional. With customizable templates, real-time collaboration, and e-signatures, PandaDoc turns creating documents into quick and easy steps. Plus, it integrates with so many other tools, streamlining your workflow, and and productivity. Try PandaDoc today by visiting ptex.co/pandadoc and start your free trial. Trust me, it's going to be a game-changer for your business. That's ptex.co/pandadoc. Any any final thoughts about, you know, business owners listening to this, employees listening to this, and how they can improve on the HR processes or any final thoughts? >> Yeah, final thoughts on how employees and employers can improve. Understand that if you're an employee, it's an exchange of your time for money and value, and as an employer, the employee is here to do the same. So, let's not pretend we're here to sing Kumbaya. Let's Let's be real, and and let's be real about what we're what we're here to accomplish in in the workplace. And let's have the difficult conversations. Not right away if somebody's in a heated, you know, space, but let's not pretend that things will resolve themselves without communication. How to improve specifically the HR processes if you're an employee and you're thinking about going to ask for a raise or something is bothering you, find a respectful way to raise the issue. If you're an employer, communicate the cadence of when somebody can expect a raise. So often, I speak with people that are already ready to leave the company, and they finally have that conversation. It's like, "Oh, sure. Yeah, I just didn't think of it." So, if you're an employer, communicate. Once a year, we'll sit down. You may or may not get Once a quarter, ideally, to talk about performance. And if you have four quarters of that, you can expect this. Just, you know, I Yeah, final thought that if there's one thing I wish I can tell people is don't be afraid to have that conversation. Just do it respectfully. >> It's It's so It's a such an important point, and I sit with people all the time where, let's say, let's go speak first about employees having issues with the with their employers and I said, "When did you discuss this with your employees?" He says, "No, no, like I don't know what to say." He says, "Guess what? You're you're going around with this bothering you for who knows how long and thinking about leaving whatever it is and maybe if it's communicated you find out there's another side to it or maybe there's you know the you know like you said employees are employers are so much so so so many times so busy maybe they they they they failed to to pay attention to this so whatever it is. And vice versa as well and I've seen like I can't I can't count how many times I I have people that stayed in companies or kept employees that almost on the verge of leaving just because it was the lack of that conversation. So I just want to reiterate the importance of first thing and this is I guess what? This is with you know, you could have an issue with the family member, you could have an issue with a friend, a partner, you know, don't underestimate the power of a healthy conversation. >> That's it. That's it. >> Yeah, the one thing I would say is most people say, "Oh, I already had a conversation." It's because you didn't have it as a planned conversation. You just by the way like in the hallway next to the the water cooler you mentioned this and you didn't get the right answer. I always suggest when something is really bothering you, it's a scheduled conversation. Let's go out for a few minutes. Let's have a conversation. I'll I'll I'll I'll even share something an experience that I had at my company. I I had a project manager that somehow I I was seeing him burning out. He was a phenomenal project manager a couple of years ago and I am seeing him burning out and I said, "You know what? Let's take a long walk. I want to have a conversation with you." And I still remember the time. You know what he told me? I love the company but I'm on the verge of leaving. I said, "Why?" He says, "Because I outgrew my position. I think I could offer way more." I said, "What if I could give that opportunity in our company?" And he said, "By all means. I love the people. I love the company. I love the industry. I love everything. He ended up being our our our director of operations for a long time. Then he became our integrator. And then even he left our company, we still used him on on the as advisory on a bunch of of different opportunities. And that came just because walking around the block. So that's the power. And if I wouldn't have caught that that at that moment, you know, a few days later I would find out, "Okay, I'm sorry. This is my two weeks notice." And and and the lesson for for, you know, I had and then I think people listening to this should be that don't wait for that. Just just pick, you know, have a routine random, you know, list of people how you speak to them once a month, once a quarter, once a whatever depending on which employee, which just you know, how things just tell me what's going on in your life. Let's how can we improve? And and that and the one thing I will just add to this we're already talking this topic is as an employer, it's your moral duty duty as well to ask for feedback on how you are how you are treating them. Like in in in guess what? If they give you feedback that we need to have a better dialogue, improve as well because most of the time the feedback you can get from that employee, even then that employee ends up leaving, you'll have the same feedback for the next employee. Yeah, so that's that's So how how could people find out more about Topaz or or if they want to follow you you personally? >> Sure. So first you summed it up really well and I'm happy you had that personal experience to really drive the point home. I'm very very happy that that was the the emphasis of the takeaway because that's really powerful in terms of changing it. And And for those who want to learn more about Topaz, topazhr.com. Myself personally on LinkedIn, Hesky Winiger. That's it. >> Great. For the links resources mentioned in this episode, check out the show notes at www.petexgroup.com/podcast where we'll link to Hesky and to Topaz. Let's close with the four rapid-fire questions. So you ready? >> Hit me. >> Number one, a book that changed your life. Extreme ownership. Great book. Number two, a piece of advice you got that you'll never forget. >> You're never going to find your future in the rearview mirror. So, your windshield is bigger than your rearview mirror. Look back enough to learn from your experiences, but ultimately look forward and move forward. >> Powerful. I think today, by the time of we're recording this, I posted on LinkedIn that your dream should always be bigger than your memories. >> Mhm. What's that? Yeah. >> Number three, anything you wish you could go back and do differently. >> No. >> Love it. And final question, what's still on your bucket list to achieve? >> Mhm. I have a long bucket list. Which one do I share? >> Whatever you want you want we should hold our listeners to hold >> Ooh, what do you want me to hold me accountable for? Um, yeah, I don't know. It was visiting countries, opening multiple on global. We checked that one off this year, thankfully. Um, so that's at least from a business perspective. On a personal perspective, I would have to think about that one. That's all I got. I'm I'm going to keep it honest. Yeah, we'll keep it real. >> Hesky, thank you so much for joining us. I know your time is valuable. That is why in the name of our listeners, we'll forever be grateful for sharing us some of your time with us today. >> Thank you, Manny. Appreciate it. >> Likewise. My pleasure. Thanks. That's my conversation with Hesky Wineberg. My takeaway from this one. Number one, don't ignore people issues. They don't go away on their own. If something feels off, deal with it early before it turns into a bigger problem. Number two, go into hiring with clarity. Know exactly what problems you're solving and what success looks like before you bring someone in. Number three, culture comes from how you run your company day-to-day. Clear expectations, fair treatments, and consistency matters way more than perks. Number four, raises should be about value. What is the person actually contributing to the business and how does that translate into the business? And number five, most issues come down to communication. Better, more direct conversations will solve a lot of the problems before they even start. I want to ask you for a favor. If you enjoyed this episode or any episode of the Let's Talk Business podcast, please share it with your friends, family, and business associates. More importantly, subscribe. Once you subscribe, you'll make sure you never miss an episode. Thank you. And that's a wrap for today's episode of the Let's Talk Business podcast. I hope you enjoyed the practical no-nonsense advice that our guest shared. If you found value in listening, I would be so grateful if you could share the episode with your friends. And if you could give the show a five-star rating on Apple podcast or whatever platform you listen. Subscribe to the show and get notified every time we publish a new episode. The Let's Talk Business podcast is a P times Group original production. Until next time, make it a great day.