The Dark Reality Most Communities Ignore - Zvi Gluck

When you kill a person, they're dead. When you molest a person, you're killing them every single day. Throwing a kid out of Yeshiva without finding them an appropriate place is retzicha. I used to get beaten up every single day. 39 malkos. How many people go to the mikvah and they're using it as a hot tub? What about the family of the abuser? Yeah, what about the family of the abuser? You killed them, not the victim. You can't believe the victim cuz they're not frum anymore. What does that mean? And my philosophy is Yichud between men and men also. We have to also make sure people realize the rabbaim and the teachers are not the bulk of our problems in sexual abuse. We got to just get this out there. They get a very bad rap. What happens when it's a 6'2" guy and a 5'2" wife and the wife is beating up the husband and he doesn't hit back because he doesn't want to. Right. Don't minimize anybody else's pain and suffering. You don't know what it is. What are you saying to these people who say this is a topic that needs to be spoken on Shabbos, not on camera? Today, we sit down with a person who has become a lifeline um for thousands of families. His name is Zvi Gluck. Um is the CEO and co-founder of Amudim, Amudim the organization. Amudim's vision is to ensure that every individual uh facing a crisis has a place where to turn. Zvi is not afraid to stand up for what's right. He's not afraid to walk in situations where most people wouldn't want to go. Zvi is not afraid to say the truth, stand for the emes. This is raw. This is real and it's important. Zvi, welcome to the struggle. Thank you very much. I got to tell you, now I know if I need somebody to write my eulogy, I'm going to, you know, make sure you write it in advance. So, I got you. Um thank you for coming. We want to get into Amudim and what Amudim does and all the good stuff. First of all, you hear and you see so much pain that is going on and also disappointment some people that have your back, that stab you in the back and all What's the emotional cost? I mean, how do you deal with this? >> you a message that I just got today? Yep, sure. >> I did put my phone on silent. This came at 12:07 p.m. today. >> Today. Hi, I wanted to send you this text for a while. I want to thank you so much for helping with my brother. When I found him on the street that Tuesday morning many months ago, I did not know what to do. Then I thought to myself, I needed to contact you. From the moment I reached out to you, you connected me directly with your staff who helped me through the process. The care and devotion that they have is unbelievable. Every step of the way, they were there with me to get him into the first place that he was at from there to another place and so on. Now, Baruch Hashem, he's in a safe place. He's in a good place and with Hashem's help, we're hoping it's going to continue. Thank you for the amazing work that Amudim does for everyone. Have a great day. Okay. So, I wrote back. It's our pleasure and thank you for letting us know. We don't hear this often enough. Right? And the message back to that, that was the end, right? I've been meaning to send you this text from day one. I think about all that you and Amudim did for our family all the time and get very emotional thinking about it. And each time I speak to my brother, I'm reminded of it. You are truly an angel on earth. All of the Amudim staff are malachim. Hashem should continue to give you the strength and koach to continue doing the wonderful work that you do for everyone. Now, it happens to be that thank God we have more wins than losses. But hearing it is still extremely important because I'm still a human being. You asked me the emotional toll. >> [sighs] >> How do I say this the nicest way? I would never ask this person nor do I think she would. Maybe I would ask but agree to be a a spokesman for Amudim. We don't have an alumni association. Most people that we've helped, they want to forget we ever existed. We always say people donate to Hatzolah hoping they'll never need Hatzolah. They donate to Hatzolah Lifeline hoping they'll never need it. They're petrified to donate to Amudim for that reason. They don't even want to think about what could happen. >> Cuz they were such a dark place and they're running away All of a sudden we're there, we help them and they forget. So what ends up happening and I'm going to say we'll be very open. What's my struggle, right? What's my struggle? I'll tell you. And it is real by the way. Yeah. Is people call us up for help that we just can't do. Now, you have two choices in life. You can either string them along and make believe and fun fun play games or you can just be honest and open and say I'm sorry. For example, like Hi, I need $40,000 for my brother to go to rehab. Now, I can tell you right now without exaggeration, if we were to be able to say yes to every person that makes that call, we would have to raise over a hundred million dollars a year. I'm not exaggerating. We did the math. We I keep track. Every time somebody calls and we can't help, we keep track of it by the way cuz we want to know what we are I'm a big data freak. I could show you afterwards. I have everything in Power BI without names. I'll show you everything. Every everything we deal with is tracked. I'm a meshugana with that. >> [snorts] >> Um first of all for transparency purposes, I think every organization should really be to a level where you can show anybody anything at any time. But also for to help with prevention, right? Cuz we all ultimately prevention is our key. We're putting out fires. And then what happens? People say, "Oh, Amudim people I get called Oh, you never helped so-and-so. Why should I help you?" I always say there's the two types of people that are the most angry at us. One is the person that we helped, you know, we used to have a therapy subsidy fund. Unfortunately, the last 2 years it's been very tough. We were not able to continue doing it. We used to give >> There was There was a time that you used to pay for therapy. >> Karen Hazel and Naftali does it. There are There are There are some very good organizations that do it. Um again, this was one piece of what we did. We do case management. We help people. >> Right. Through case management, we were able to add this on. Unfortunately, times got tight and we had to cut that. But, we did it based on 6-month increments up to a year. This was not meant to be a a lifelong thing. It was meant to give people a kick start to be able to get therapy. That was the idea. So, one category of people that are very angry at us are people that we didn't continue. We gave them a year. We didn't continue. Now, I feel bad for them. I wish I could, but the whole idea behind this is to give people a kick start. That was the whole idea. >> the enemy. Well, we became the enemy and I can tell you that when people come to me and they talk about what people have said about me, I said, "Listen, I I can't I don't I feel bad for them. They need the help. I'm not going to answer it cuz what can I do? And the second type of people that are upset at us are people that really come to the First National Bank of Amudim and we tell them, "I'm sorry, we don't have a banking license." They really just want us to give them blank checks for what they need. Now, we spent over $150,000 on developing a system and creating a legal mechanism to be able to raise money for people for individual cases that is within the law and the legal guide of the IRS. Because on the face of it, if Ruvein comes and says, "I need to go to rehab." And Shimon says, "I'm giving you money just to pay for Ruvein's rehab." That in it of itself is not considered tax deductible. But we were able and we spent a lot of money. Why? Cuz we knew we can't do it, but at least let's give people this ability. So we opened this program. It's called Partner to Heal. And I can tell you over $13 million has has been raised through that. But the onus of raising that money is on the people. Now, we don't take a fee, we don't take a percentage, and keep in mind, $13 million means a $25 check, an $18 or this or that. My finance office has to deal with the invoices, paying the bills. Cuz again, we raise money, it can only go to pay for rehab, pay for therapy, pay for treatment. I I'm not raising money for somebody, you know, it has to go to what's within our mission. So we we've spent the money to do that. We've tried to come up with solutions, right? The solution is we can't do it. Let's find a tool that does it. We became registered as a nonprofit in Israel, in Canada, and in England. So that people We have a lot of cases in England, a lot of cases in Canada. Israel, we have a whole division there. So that's a separate where people are saying, "But how do we get money?" No problem. Donate to Amudim Canada. We'll then be able to use that money to pay for treatment. We try to do everything we can to help. But you can't make everybody happy. But the downside is the people that we do help, we don't blame them. I Emotionally, I can't blame anybody. But they're not going to be the ones standing out and saying, "My name is John Smith and this is what Amudim did for me." Now, there might be some, and if people hear this that that's the case, please let me know. Because it got to a point by me that I no longer ask people. Because each time I ask and they say no, even though I feel and I respect their decision, a little piece of me gets hurt. >> So, I stopped doing it. Of course. Cuz I don't want to be in that mindset. So, let me ask you um the stuff that you see not the average person sees and the stuff that you hear is not the average person hears. Um >> know if I agree with that. You think everyone sees >> They don't want to hear it. Right. >> I think they do hear it. Yeah. You heard somewhere in denial. >> You heard of somebody being molested before you heard of Amudim, right? >> 100%. And what what thought went through your mind? I always thought that this is this is uh you know that you have to stand up for this. I was never a big fan of putting stuff under the rug. But what No, but as a human, what And I'm not I'm I promise I'm not trying to question you. >> but it's just something has to be done. And what did you do before the struggle podcast, before you went for training? What did you do when you first heard about this? >> I just spoke to my family. Okay. I spoke to my kids and I spoke to whoever wanted to hear and I gave them my opinion. That's it. And I remember there were people um in Williamsburg and in communities who did stand up and they paid a dear price for it. >> Ah. Exactly. By the way, if I wouldn't be Rabbi Gluck, there's no chance in hell I would have been able to succeed. Your kids wouldn't be in school. Well, I My kids are in The types of schools my kids go to, I'm not worried. >> All right, but Yeshiva Mesivta of Eastern Parkway in Queens and MTA Yeshiva University's high school, I'm not worried. But I would have never had the chutzpah to go to first base. Yeah. At the end of the day, and the fact that I was involved in public service for 10 years prior to Amudim, Mhm. also was a big help because I could sit with the Satmar Rebbe, either of them, and have a discussion about a very serious matter. And at the end of the day, even if they're not happy with what I'm doing on this side, but other side, I'm using them as an example. I'm not saying them specifically, but my point is being my father's son opened up those doors. 100% But, my point is is that when I was 15 years old, 15, my best friend's mother died. Um I remember like it was yesterday. I came in for Shiva to be menachem avel. I was in Yeshiva out of town. And I remember the eighth day of Shiva was the hardest day. The al men had to go back to work. So, my best friend is my age. We were 15. He had one older sibling and what, four younger siblings? During the Shiva, people are there. They're coming. There's food. What happens after Shiva? Right? What happens? And I'll never forget. I told my father, "I'm not going back to Yeshiva." Mind you, I went to 14 high schools. So, the fact that I was in a Yeshiva that I was still in and I said, "I'm not going back cuz I'm staying to help them." was like a But, my father said, "Okay." My parents both, my mother was very supportive. And after a few days of me staying in the house and literally homework, cleaning, just to help, just to do something. I was 15. I didn't I decided we have to do something. And we opened up an organization that my father, Zalman Anstock, and Douglas Jablon were the two board members of the organization. And we called it the National Cancer Bereavement Foundation. Mind you, the word cancer wasn't allowed to be used yet. RCCS wasn't already open where you're allowed to say cancer. But, in my mind, I was always the guy that wants to break that mold from when I was a a little kid. And the organization was very simple. There was no money involved. All we did was Big Brother Big Sister program. Again, if I would have known then what I know now, I would have been more careful probably. I'm hoping that nobody got hurt under my watch. But, what did I know? I was 15. I had a Skytel two-way pager. For people that don't know, Google it. >> Yeah. And that was how we did it. We had big brothers, big sisters, and my Maimonides Hospital gave us free rooms for therapy and their therapists. It was through Dr. Bieberfeld. And we did support groups. No- Nobody knew what support groups were. Like I I didn't even know, but something had to be done. I was 15. Within a year, another organization reached out to me and said, "We hear you're doing this. We're very involved in that space." I said, "No problem. I'm giving it over to you. Take it." It wasn't about This wasn't the I needed to do this. This was It needed to be done. Now, there are people that will do that, there people that won't. I believe everybody has the koach to do it. That's my belief. Yes, the heavy price. I mean, look at a guy like Nachum Rosenberg, right? At the end of the day, he got up there when nobody would. At the same time, they needed him to be an expert on mikvahs, right? So, they would fly him all over the world to talk about that. But he comes to abuse, "Oh, he's a meshuggener, he's a this, he's a that." Now, I got to tell you, Nachum and I, we don't always get along. We don't see eye to eye. I I I'm very much in the sense that my focus is more on the victims, helping them, getting them the proper help. I'm not I'm very anti-abuse. Don't get me wrong. I'll do whatever it takes to stop it, but our focus isn't the abuser. Our focus is the victim. Very often, by dealing with the victim, you're dealing with the abuser and you have to take a stand, which I have no problem doing, but that's not our focus. But I will always say that Nachum Rosenberg in the Chassidishe Welt was the pioneer in standing up for this. Rabbi Ronnie Greenwald in the Litvishe world was I mean, Ronnie, I spent the last many years of his life I spent in camp with him. My wife's the nurse head nurse in Camp Sternberg. And my wife and him and I used to always get into fights. My wife used to come and stop her ready. The only difference between you is 40 years. But I want to tell you, talk about Ronnie Greenwald, I got to tell you the most amazing story. He calls me up one day and he never called me Tzvi, it was always Glock. My wife he always called Meyerfeld, I was always Glock. Glock, I'm having a family call you, but this is what I want you to do when they call you. And me being pre-Amudim days, right? I knew everything. I was the cowboy. I made every mistake in the book. But we all do. That's how we learn. I said, "Rabbi G, listen to me carefully. You're telling me you're calling me? I'm going to do it my way. Otherwise, you take care of the problem." And he hung up. And I thought it was over. 3 minutes later the phone rings. This family's calling me. So right away then I said, "Wow, this is a person who's real. His purpose and his mission is to do the right thing." I will tell you the end of the story even though he was already older and retiring, I will tell you he was right by the way in what he said, the way I should have done it. He was 100% right. I learned the hard way. Thank God there was no long damage, but he was right. So you look at a guy like Ronnie Greenwald, a pioneer, right? But there's pioneers in every area. You ever hear the name Gary Torgow from Detroit? Simple guy, went to law school, graduated, got into real estate. The guy the entire Detroit community is where it is because of him. You would think that he's the most He calls me up, "Tzvi, can you help so-and-so with something?" Yeah, sure. A minute later that guy's calling me. You know how many people call me up and say, "Tzvi, so-and-so needs help, but you'll go through me, so I'm dealing with the family." I don't care. I'm there to help the person. You take the credit, you take the cash, but I look at people like Rabbi Greenwald, like Nochum Lavdol between the living and the dead, like Gary Torgow in Detroit, a guy like Laser Schiner. These are people that Laser Schoiner saw a problem with something. A lot of people don't agree with what he's doing. I'm not going to say whether I do or don't agree with it. That's irrelevant. Right. But he saw a problem. He got in. He's going to do something about it. Whether it's people in Oman not having food, whether it's Lakewood, you see, it doesn't matter. Right. The point is everybody has it within them to do it. There are prices to pay. Yeah. But everybody can do it. >> Ronnie Ronnie was something else. I knew Ronnie very well. And one time there was a bucha that was thrown out of a yeshiva. And me not knowing anything, I was younger at that time, and I went over to Ronnie in shul and I told him, "Ronnie, you got to do something. You got this bucha is out of yeshiva that because the whole shul every morning we saw this bucha coming in, and he was like he didn't do anything with his day." So I told Ronnie, "You got to do something." He says, "I have to do something. You have to do something." And he told me, "You go down to that yeshiva, take four guys, knock on the door, go tell the yeshiva that that you want him back." He said he taught me that thing, but Ronnie was something else. Ronnie got up and said the I remember he had a famous talk about child molestation. He was talking about the same >> about that at the Agudah convention before it was popular. Now, you did have a guy Rabbi Rabbi Akiva Horowitz, we can't leave him out, very very also from the pioneers. So he was already talking about it, but Ronnie Greenwald was like that much greater where he all the Russia yeshivas knew him between his State Department work, his government work, his spy work, his spy trading work. And he read that letter. Yeah. And I want you to know I still watch. There's a few videos I watch when I need a little hisic. I watched a Mendy Klein video where he's famously broke down crying when he said, "When you kill a person, they're dead. When you molest a person, you're killing them every single day." Ronnie's video, there's a few of these that I watch, but I will tell you that but these are the people these shakes you to the core. >> These are By the way, just not Rabbi Meiers Latowicz. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Simple idea. Let's make it easy for How many people are learning Torah, davening, knowing what they're saying because of ArtScroll? Right. So, these are Now, if you look at everybody how they grew up and my father who's accomplished so much in his life, not just in the area, but so many other things. The autopsy laws, helping with making it legal, getting it founded, being from the right. All these things. It's It's one of those things that we in our community, we have it in us because at the end of the day that's our survival technique. Remember, every other minority group has disappeared off the face of the earth. There's no Romans, there's no Persians, there's no Assyrians, right? The Greeks are gone, right? But the Jews always stayed. Why? Because at the end of the day that as is that we have that but Yeah. everybody has it. Everybody could have it. Everybody wants the other person to do it, but I'm here to say, you know, you spoke about getting thrown out of Yeshiva. So, Yeah. I I I made a very very public statement recently where I said that and I didn't say it in my name. I quoted big them that I said have said that throwing a kid out of Yeshiva without finding them an appropriate place is right. >> 100%. I said it. So, first of all, I got attacked from people on the Yeshiva side, on the side. You have no idea. But instead of me taking it as a fight, I quoted the to them. I sent them the video of the story. Somebody just sent it to me. This one I didn't know at the time of the Rebbe when he said to somebody the line goes he said like what do you mean? It's It's your child, right? Yeah. Or when the when they wanted to throw some but I think it was they wanted to throw someone out of Yeshiva and the Rebbe asked the head of Yeshiva what's his name? And he says, you know, Klein. No, no, no. What's his name? What's his name? What's his mother's name? What name do you say to him for? You mean to tell me that you want to throw somebody out of Yeshiva you never even said to him for this person. Yeah. Like this is not a Savig luck line. Right. But What's going on today? It's a business. It's a business. That's why they look at it this way like I don't owe you anything and I select the boys. But you know what? The Yeshiva is not a business. It can't be. It cannot be a business. It is it's an arise. It's a 100% arise. Now, don't get me wrong. There are times that somebody has to be removed from a Yeshiva. But you know what? There are plenty of Yeshivas out there today. Hasidic, Litvish, Modern Orthodox, all across the spectrum that are meant for people that not every Yeshiva is meant for everybody. So first of all, let's not forget the parents also when they're sending the kids to Yeshiva and I'll be back again, right? >> Right. I had kids. I was prepared to send them to different places based on each one's needs. You got to be real. I don't need my kid to go to Yeshiva because that's where they're going to get the best of them. Right. I need him to go where they're going to grow. So the parents have to also take a certain responsibility. But at the end of the day once a Yeshiva has a student, that's your arise. You have a responsibility to place him someplace. You can't leave him on the street. >> How can you sleep at night? It makes no sense. >> the common denominator if you go through an hour place, right? Which was the first drop-in center that I started volunteering for back in 1998 99. This is what Sani right? Yeah. Well, this is what Sani but this is in the we were there Schnookers running around. I'm saying you know when I met Sani like it wasn't what it is today. But at the end of the day, the common denominator is everybody there was thrown out of Yeshiva. Yeah. Now, at the end of the day, there's also the flip side, right? Where you know, there was a time when a kid was thrown out and they were embarrassed for having been thrown out. So they want to try to get back into some place, right? This is what I tell people. I have a big belief there's unconditional love and unconditional freedom. I don't believe it's the same thing. I believe in unconditional love. And I practice what I preach. But you're allowed to have rules. You're allowed to have limits what people could do or can't do. That's my philosophy. But what has become now is we've created in our society this like split where one camp says, "We're going to be hard on everybody and get them to do it." And the other one says, "Let them do whatever they want and they're going to come back." But the middle part is where we got lost. And that's where I believe my philosophy is bringing them back. Kids are on the street. They need structure. They need something. Of course. What ends up happening? We've created this generation of where parents have no respect for the system, even if they're sending kids to the Yeshiva. There's no respect for the system. The system lost the respect on their own. Right. They didn't earn the respect. >> earn it. >> the parents get very upset at certain things and so there's it's a communication problem between the system and the parents. It's It's Here's what it is. It's very simple. Where do kids spend most of their waking hours? In in Yeshiva. >> Right. They get home. Let's even assume in today's day and age usually both parents need to be working. It's just a reality, right? I mean, I know what tuition costs, what food costs, right? I think somebody was saying I think there was something to be poor in New York and to be required to get Shabbos you have to be making under $250,000 a year. Now, $250,000 is a lot of money. Yeah. When your mortgage is taking 80,000 of it or your rent, your kids' tuition is taking 70, 80,000, what are you doing? You got to buy food. Yeah. Anyway, the point is that the parents are overwhelmed. Now, you're sending them with homework, with this, with that. I'm a big I'm very against homework, by the way. I think it's the worst thing we ever come came up with. The worst thing. All it does is makes fights in the house. Parents get angry at kids. Kids get angry. They then decide if I didn't do homework, my grades anyway going to be low. I don't have to work harder in school. Just drop homework. I don't believe in homework. I don't think homework changed anybody's life for the good. I want somebody to tell me wrong. I don't believe in 8 hours, 9 hours day in Yeshiva, either, by the way. But, that I don't think is a fight I don't think I'm going to win. I don't think it's human for a 10-year-old kid to be You know, have a few hours every day, let loose. Again, maybe today they'll say internet, you can't, this, too much free time. But, there's got to be like a balance. But, our system, I will tell you, look at Torah Mesorah, they're trying very hard, and they're definitely definitely making a big impact. Rabbaim are not what they were. That we can agree, right? Rabbaim these days, teachers these days are far better than when we were in in Cheder. I mean, I was in Kitz Dedale. Kitz Dedale, I I I I don't want to talk about what, you know, talk about my trauma. Talk about what I went through in Spinka Cheder, which I'm not embarrassed to talk about. I mean, maybe I shouldn't say because of this, but it's not Lashon Hara. It's a fact of life. It's going to show people but there's no Rabbaim even in those Yeshivas like what we had, right? There was no I used to get beaten up every single day. 39 Malkos. I mean, you're talking like Oh, you have no idea. And and some guy literally had the chutzpah to tell me I called him up for a donation, and he has the chutzpah to tell me if you can go to so-and-so's kever and tell him that you moichel him for everything cuz I know you still harbor anger, then I'll give a donation. You're going to tell me first of all, even therapeutically, that's not the way to do it. Number one. But, you're going to force on me to forgive somebody that I have no interest in forgiving. I don't want to forgive that person. I don't care that he's dead. I don't want to forgive that person for what he did. Not just for me. I Baruch Hashem ended up okay. Yeah. I'm married, kids, I'm doing other kids that were in my matzevah that that same person are miserable today. Dead, overdosed, married to God, you know, the whole nine yards. I should be I should forgive I don't have to forgive. There's no obligation to forgive. >> Right. There's an obligation to make peace with what happened. That's for me. That's on me. He had an obligation to apologize to me, to ask for forgiveness. Right. Which by the way, a different menahel of a different yeshiva I was in did do. 25 years later. And I forgave him b'lev shalom. Mhm. That's the closure. I needed that closure, it worked. But this is what you tell I have to do this. I don't have to do anything. But the fact that it's a business is is to me that one of the biggest avlos that we have. Yeah. Now the chinuch system and you see we see a lot of kids are falling out. We see a lot of drugs, we see alcohol, we see addictions, we see >> Gambling? Uh-huh. Gambling. Gambling, it's unbelievable. >> You should know, ever since I made that public statement, which by the way I was shocked how many people were living in denial. Even I was shocked because everybody has something. The amount of calls I got from parents. >> Now, you're talking about the online gambling, how easy it is >> Online gambling with the phones, gambling, they get on I I mean You can gamble on the weather today. You can gamble on anything. I can gamble on >> Politics. on how many cars are going to cross the George Washington Bridge. And people are addicted to this. >> See, we've been dealing with gambling addiction for years. Right. And I want to tell you we have people calling a lot, rabbaim that would be gambling also. Their gamble was scratch off lottery tickets. Again, it's still gambling. Call it what you want. Cuz they need to hit that big win in order to So, gambling is nothing new in our community. What's happened now is it's younger ages. I'm talking like 14-year-olds. And it is rampant. And And they have this other thing in case gambling is not enough, let's teach you how to gamble. So, we're going to create fantasy leagues. What's the fantasy league? Again, I only actual product that I finally just got done studying, where I pick, let's say this player from this team and this player from that team and this player. And if they would be on one team, this team is going to win. So, I create a fantasy league, so it doesn't even exist. And then you're betting on it. So, now you're gambling on something that they're Even the professional sports, it was in the news that the professional sports it also were like corrupted with this One second. I mean, the famous 1919 World Series. Come on. I mean, this was a back then. But at the end of the day, I'm not excusing gambling at all. Right. But if somebody says I I'm a fan of this team, I believe they're going to win, I'm willing to bet it, I don't agree with it, but but you're doing it like not even real. Like you you're gambling on something that there's no reality to. But let me ask you something. We know that gambling and we know all these addictions that you're dealing with, people are running away from something. It's not the gambling, it's not the alcohol, it's not They don't like the bottle. It's these kids you're talking about 14-year-olds, from 14 all the way up to 70, 80 years old. What are they running away from? Why is it What is missing in our community that a person doesn't feel content and you don't feel fulfilled and somebody is not giving something? Now, we're not here blaming. It's not the parents, not the school. But let's let's identify where the problem is. >> You are hitting the nail on the head. Now, I want you to know that just today I decided to run an algorithm in on Amudam's data, 21,000 clients since we started of crossover. That means people that we have that had this type of abuse that also had this type of addiction. I mommish ran my Excel spreadsheet had 136 million rows. Do you understand what that means? That means a person that came to us because they were abused. And then it turns out they also have this behavioral issue. I also have So, this person has 10 other issues, each of those are going to And you're talking about 21,000 variations, right? We we did it. So, first of all, I'm going to tell you what I believe what's missing is humanity. Pure chaos. Right? Most of it is not far-fetched craziness, right? It's treat people nice, be a mensch, right? Now, the being a mensch part This is my belief. I think that we took away from our systems, everybody feels that there something is owed to them, right? I know not nobody owes me anything, okay? I owe. Nobody owes me. Everybody feels, you know, we say I mean not literally all of a sudden that's that we take it. But let's go back to the basics, right? We talk about bullying, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, people want to do anti-bullying programs, very important. What is an anti-bullying program? First of all, if I taught you math for 1 week a year, every year, would you learn math? But I think I can come into your school and teach you bullying for 2 days and now you're going to be a But even more than that, what is What do most of these bullying programs do? They bully the bully. They're painting Now, the bully is usually struggling with his or her own issues. Why are they bullying? That's That's it is. >> Let's I'm using this as an example, but to go back to what you asked. So, why are they bullying, right? What People say to me, "Well, what's the goal of what you do?" I said, "The goal is to find out the why." Not the how, not the when, the why. Cuz if you fix the why, everything else will go. Parents, I grew up, again, two parents working. It was a tough situation, but when we were home, you're going to say pre-cell phones? Could be. Guess what? I know, for years I We had dinner one night a week during the week with my phones off. Mahashmad Laharg, doesn't matter, my phones are off. I have Me, personally, I'm a board game guy. I will sit with my kids almost every single night and play board games with them. That's my That's my love language with my kids. How we get to communicate, we get to talk, we get to play games. Spend time. One of the things I don't do anymore, personally, again, I'm using my things not to be just to show I don't walk into my house on the phone. If I'm on the phone, I do not cross the door to my house. I hang up the phone. How many times people come into a house? "Oh, Tati. Wait, I'm on" What do you mean, wait? This is why you're doing that job that you're telling him to wait for, for him. You know, I give the best example, right? We were in Eretz Yisrael, many, many years ago, and this family was yelling at these kids, "Get on the bus, we're going to be late, we're going to miss the trip, we're going to this, we're going to that." And my wife walked over to the mother and said, "I promise you, your children are never going to forget this trip to Israel. Whether they remember it as a time they had fun or how the mother yelled at them every morning is up to you, but they will never forget this trip." And to me, humanity, right? You're You're on vacation, your kids want to wake up late, that's part of life. Yelling at them cuz you're on vacation is not going to help. Not talking to them Now, am I blaming the parents? No, I'm not blaming the parents. It's a societal problem, but if kids are being raised in a home where the parents are warm, welcoming, spending time with them, a lot of the other things don't become an issue. What am I running away from? My friends do for me what my parents don't. My outside influences do it. The internet is my escape. You know, one of the things we had child is law halacha. If somebody is is suicidal, can they watch internet? Can they watch movies? Can they listen to TV? You know, so we happen to have a full-time psych now and I'm with him to help with these things, but the answer is yes. In most of these cases, people want to ask ask Why did it get to that? Why is the TV what they're running to? Why? Because what they have there is not doing it for them. Now, some people might say, "Oh, we can't live our life built around them." No. No, no one's asking you to live your life be a mensch. The same way at work, right? You expect your co-workers to talk to you respectfully, do the same thing at home. To your spouse, to your kids, to your neighbors, lead by example. So, you're asking what are we running from? We're running from life. We're empty. I I'm going to say it to you straight. Let's use the Hasidic world for an example, a perfect example, right? I'm a Hasid of one rebbe. Right. He dies. His two sons want to take over. All of a sudden now, I'm told if you go to this one, you can't come to me. If you go to me, you can't be mishadach with him. What message am I teaching the kids? What message? Oh, the Beis Hamikdash got destroyed because of sinas chinam. But if you go to the other rebbe, Well, one second. How is that different? So, we're teaching the values that we're teaching don't exist. Now, you want to know why the next generation is losing their belief in everything. Because what's there to believe in? Now, I'm using that as an example cuz that's a relatable example. But that applies in any circle. So, we're we're giving mixed messages and we're doing this across the board. You know the famous expression, "Do as I say, not as I do." >> Yeah. What's that mean? You're saying something very profound. What you're saying that everything stems from childhood. We know that that 20 years we we are growing up and we we we need another 40 50 years to rewire your brain for the first 20 years. How crucial this parenting is. And you probably see this by my child molestation. That the vulnerable children, the children who are don't have relationships with their parents are the ones who get abused way more often than the ones who have a close tight-knit uh family. This it's it's about awareness. It's not about blaming parents. But the root cause is parenting. People should understand that's what you're saying. You're saying >> is It starts I I And by the way, as far as the abuse statistics, Yeah, give me the statistics. I don't know the statistics. What I do know is the families that have close relationships, a kid will get molested if they do only once. Meaning >> Right. being able to tell a parent. Now, there are people that got abused that were part of great families and were scared to say something and that happens. But the difference what we're seeing is the parent that calls us up and says, "My kid just came home and said A, B, C, and D." That's That's where you see that it works. Now, Some kids would would be afraid even to tell the parent. They're ashamed that the distance is so big. Abuse by itself is a mind of its own. It's a whole world of its own. I will tell you, people yell at me. They said, "Why are you so busy promoting all these different programs in schools?" You know, I've busy I've been promoting this Tar Chinu program, pushing for people to do it. I would have funded most of it. We'd like to get other people to fund it. It's a social emotional curriculum meant for the from for the Hamisha schools. Okay, it's a beautiful thing, okay? I said, "Because that's what's going to slow down and stop Amudim from needing to exist. The same way I walked away from the National Cancer Bereavement Foundation, I'm more than happy to walk away from Amudim if it's not necessary. I don't want to walk away because there's no money. I don't want it to close because of lack of funds. But, prevention. But, prevention doesn't have to be we're coming in and scaring you in in ninth grade, if you use drugs, you're going to be dead. How about I teach you in fifth grade how to voice your opinion, how to have a healthy discussion, communication, so that you don't feel the peer pressure to do what the bully might or might not ask you to do, and then the bully feels comfortable to go and ask help because of what they were going through. Because when we're doing the bullying segment in school, we're not painting a picture that the bully is bad. We're painting a picture that the bully needs help. We're be empathetic. Now, you're going to say, "It's not our mesorah." That By the way, that's the best answer I have from people. "Our mesorah is with the with the hunt." Right? Our mesorah is not even 150 years. So, let's stop using the word mesorah, okay? Because our mesorah was kids went to school a few hours a day, were home helping on the farm and in the fields and doing stuff. And so, let's not come up with mesorah. Now we have a new mesorah. Our mesorah is to raise healthy children so they can do the same. That is our mesorah. We work our whole lives for our kids. We we we do. But, we missed the boat. We missed the boat. And And another thing, the parents also have to be healthy in order to have healthy children. So, it's it's it's a it's it's just one into the other. Let me ask you another question. Why do you see leaders in communities at a bonum and uh being so in denial when you you want to bring them something. I know there's this issue in in in in talking about the mikvahs you mentioned it one They're talking about mikvahs children 13-year-olds going into the mikvahs together with adults. We live in a crazy world. We know this. We can't read other people's minds. Why would you do something like it? Now, is there a solution? Is there different hours or whatever? Bucher and Yeshiva separate. There's probably there You could People are creative. You can come up with something. Talk to us a little bit. What What do you think about >> a step further, right? Let me go a step further. When a Rebbe goes to the mikvah, no one's allowed to be there, right? The Rebbe goes privately. Right. Or even if he goes to a real mikvah, he's traveling and >> Yeah. But when a chossid says, "I want to go alone," they all of a sudden start quoting, "No, the halacha says if you're embarrassed in a base in a base hamedrash." Well, stop. Wait. First of all, we don't know what we're talking about. Different generations. But it's okay for the goose, it's okay for the gander. My honest opinion is nobody I'm sorry to say this. You should go to mikvah with another person. Period. End of story. That is my honest answer. Just make separate cubicles. You're spending $10 million on a mikvah? So build 50 mikvahs there. Instead of putting in the fanciest toilet for a men's mikvah, A public mikvah. >> Right. Women's mikvahs I understand, but it's also separate. Oh, not as many women go to mikvah. Okay, maybe the men shouldn't go then. At the end of the day, if you can't do something in a healthy way. Now, but let's also be realistic, right? How many people go to the mikvah and they're using it as a hot tub? Let's Let's be honest. Sitting around, you know the famous the famous joke, right? With George Bush, right? When he was president, he was told, "If you want to know what's really going on in the Jewish world, go to the Hasidic Shul mikvah on a Friday afternoon." So, he gets undercover, and he makes sure that he's Gamaliel. He does the whole nine yards. And he goes into the mikvah, and nobody's talking. He says to a guy, "Why is everyone so quiet?" He goes, "Oh, we heard that President Bush is coming to the mikvah today." Mikvah-nice. At the end of the day, mikvah-nice is a thing. Why Why is that a thing? So, let's even assume people say to me, "Tzvi, you're crazy. People aren't going to go separate." Okay. In and out. In and out. Leave your towel there. It's not a question of being embarrassed. It's a question of being modest, right? We talk about a woman, you could see that this the hairline and ba ba ba ba ba, but men could go Like, seriously. Come on. Again, so I think first of all, the culture has to change. People should go by themselves. That's number one. But, until we get to that point, there is absolutely no reason in the world First of all, kids should only go by themselves. Have a parent and a there with you looking the other way, so you're already teaching your kid not to be embarrassed of their body, but that it's private. Right? There's a healthy way to teach it, right? How do you teach a kid you have to understand that this is your ervah, and this is your tznius. And then, I'm going to take you with 30 guys into the mikvah while they're schmoozing and talking. Mixed messages. By the way, this goes back to the mixed messages. Right now, as far as denial, I don't know if it's denial anymore. I don't know if it's denial. It's denial about the fact, meaning if you ask any godol in the world today, rav, rebbe, rosh yeshiva, mekabel, is sexual abuse a thing? They're all going to say yes. No. >> They're all going to say yes. >> won't. Yeah. But, if you say to them, "Do you hear what Yankel did?" No, Yankel would never do it. Why? Byanam. So, at the end of the day, it's worse than denial. At least when they were in denial, they were they were they were in denial. They were they didn't know. They weren't Now, there's no excuse. You know it exists, but it can't be him. This one's lying. This one's this >> fighting you by protecting the people. >> I ever had in this industry, unfortunately, was when a victim went to a rov on their own. They want to go to the police because of A, B, C, and D. >> Right. Okay. So, the rov right away said, "No, the This is the victim called me after they went to the rov. I went back to the rov with the victim and with and with the parents. And the rov said, "Listen, we can't believe aid echad. All of a sudden, by the way, everybody becomes the biggest talmid chacham and bakki be shas poskim and ta We can't aid echad and in the manas. But, if you find another person, then of course, they have to go cuz that's going to be with two people. Okay. By the way, mind you, sexual abuse always occurs in private. So, even then you could say to aid them If you want to start playing that game, but let's let's go past it. A year and probably 20 victims later, probably, we get another victim of the same abuse. Now, this one wasn't coming for the police. They're coming for help on the abuse side. But, we went back to the rov. We said, "By the way, you made a psak. When there's two people, the I said, "First of all, will you give it to us in writing?" No. I said, "So, this family is going to go to the police because you made the psak. And then, they're going to come down on them, and then you're going to be the one to be the first one fighting them. No, Hashem, v'shalom. I said it, I'm going to back it. Okay. But then he adds to it, but only one victim can go to the police, not both. Why? Because one victim's enough to get a guy into trouble. Two is going to make it worse and that's more than what halachically would be acceptable. I don't know the halacha or any makla to me. There's no timeline until somebody dies. It could be 60, 70 years, but that's a separate discussion. Again, what do I know? I I'm not so smart. So then I tell the rov, I said, but you don't understand. If one person goes to the police, then the community is going to say this person's lying. There's only one victim. If two people go at the very least, the same way you didn't let them go. Not Mekanism Nishtin. Now this family was to me mistake and they followed the guide. And yes, this was the rov who went to them and said, you have to stop with the police, you have to stop with the case because cuz that was the story. And that's the story in every big case and it's what I hear every single time. How can you believe it if it's only one? First of all, most of these cases that we know about, I myself personally know of multiple victims of abusers that people only know of one. You know why I know of multiple? Cuz they're coming to us for the therapeutic help. You know why you don't know? You know why you don't know? Because they're petrified that what happened to the other victim and their family losing jobs, parnossa, this, kids being thrown out of school. Because the terror doesn't stop. So now, is that living in denial or is that being part of the problem? And that's the difference here. Now, I will tell you, this is a story that bothers me to no end. I only heard about this recently, but when I put the facts together, I was in tears, literally. Ruvain gets caught doing something inappropriate. The wife finds out. The wife wants a divorce. Now, the parents, this, that, a rav gets involved. I'm going to get him the help he needs. I'm going to fix this. We'll fix shalom bayis. Everything is going to be great. Okay. Ruvain has zero consequences for his actions. Psychologically, that just means it's going to continue. Clinically, practically, statistically, call it what you want. Okay. Eight years later, Ruvain gets arrested in the major operation of prostitution of underage kids. Okay. They find them in a whatever it is. It's a sting. Now, this is also three kids later, right? A business later. Number one, who's to blame for the fact that Ruvain is now going to be in jail for 15 years, and he has a wife that's a lay bediga amuna, and four kids at this point that are lay bediga amuna? Who's Who is the person to blame? Obviously, Ruvain is to blame cuz Ruvain did it, right? But what about the rav? Yeah. This rav, when he took upon himself the achrayis of saying, "I'm going to help you, Abie. You don't go to the police. Don't go" First of all, roif cases, when they go to the police, people unfortunately never end up in jail anyway. So, it's not a question of jail. And those that do end up in jail, if they take a plea, they usually get a very short sentence. Again, I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm stating the facts. The facts are that the DA's office doesn't want to put a victim on the stand, and therefore, they will give a sweetheart deal to a But they don't want to take a deal. They're denying it. >> One second. The denying it is the arrogance part. That's That's below me. >> No, the the perpetrator is Yeah, but they're not really denying it. Meaning, I had cases where perpetrators who ended up in jail for many, many years, I myself presented offers to them of apologize to the victim and go to this inpatient treatment, and the victim won't testify in court cuz they're scared to testify. Instead of them accepting it, oh, they're scared to testify. We're going to And guess what? You play with You play big boy games, you got to deal with big boy consequences. But, at the end of the day, the rov that covered up the original story, he's the one that's achrayas for this family. >> 100%. >> Now, if this guy would have been caught when it was only one person, or when it was one image, or one something, jail might have never happened, but getting the help very likely could have. Now, there's multiple more victims, but everybody always says, "What about the family?" What about the the family of the abuser? Yeah, what about the family of the abuser? You [snorts] killed them, not the victim. You You who helped cover up. You who fired this person from working in your community cuz you knew what he was doing, and then another community brought that person in, and the person continued it. You Leshama and Amriechas on you. Now, you're both getting together and signing letters helping this person. You know who I'm talking to. You. You are the ones guilty for every victim. The abuser is guilty. The abuser also it's not an excuse, but the abuser is sick. Right. It's not an excuse. >> Right. What's your excuse? Right. You're not sick. Well, obviously you are, but you're not the one with this sickness. You covered up years of trauma to protect your insular community. Every victim since then, the blood is on your hands. >> In a way, he's worse than the abuser. >> 100%. >> than the abuser. I think so. And And let me ask you this, and you know this because you speak to these victims sometimes. How does a victim feel if was abused and does not get validated, has a community and a roof and a and and is this It's It's Can you describe it? I mean, double punishment double abuse. >> How about I say First of all, you know we call that revictimization or secondary trauma. But let me tell you something else. You know what most victims want? Most >> An apology. >> That's it. They're not looking for blood. They're looking for validation. They're looking for them to be vindicated. They're looking for the empathy, compassion so they can move on. These are good people. They have nothing from that that this guy is in prison. >> And by the way, when you do studies, they did a study by the way on survivors of sexual abuse that put their abusers in jail. It's a phenomenal study. 100 people that their abusers all got It was 100 people that the abusers got between I think 10 and 15 years. Okay? And they asked people 1 year later, "How do you feel that the abuser went to jail?" More than half [clears throat] were like, "It didn't do anything for me." Half were like, "Yeah, we feel good." By 5 years after the person was in jail, less than 10% felt good that the person went to jail. Why? Because at the end of the day, going to jail in these cases are almost always a trial, right? The cases where the person That's why I said 10 to 15 years because when they did the study with people who went to jail for 2 to 3 years, most victims were happy. What's the difference? They took a plea. A plea means acknowledgement. I did it. Right. That is telling the world I did it. Now, "Ah, but he only took a plea, so he shouldn't get a longer sentence." You know what? We all know the truth. But the victim knows the truth. The victim knows that he or she was abused and knows that this person owned up to it. The fact that you're going to tell the rest of the world differently, that's To walk around like a fool. The victim walks around telling their story, he or she telling a story. First of all, they can't tell the story. They take the courage to tell the story. They go to people and they don't get that validation, that acknowledgement is is is beyond words. >> Now now let's now let's add gas to the fire, as they say, right? Now the victim went went out of their comfort zone, did it. Right. Destroyed their whole life in the process. Their families, the shame, the this, all of that, right? And now people are coming out and going after the victim again. Yeah. What about other victims? Of course you What about people who are never going to share their story? >> Never. Keep this world of secrecy. What about the fact that the guy that committed the abuse comes out of jail and is getting the mizrach vant? What kind of spoon are they >> What you always get I think you're freed from jail. Support, money, um the dancing with them in the synagogue. >> to tell you what I told somebody was, if you want to support abusers, I can't stop you, but at least match dollar for dollar for a victim's therapy. I You feel that you're doing a mitzvah? Again, it's But at least there's Nobody's ever taken me up on that offer. But the point is victims are people. Now, you know why they're not validated? Which we're getting better than we were. Let me listen. Our generation and younger are already but there's still the shame. But at the end of the day the victims are usually younger. The abusers are usually older. The abusers are shiny dimension, this, or that, the whole nine yards. And and the best is always What about the What about What about the abusers' family? What about the abusers' family? I feel horrible for the family. I want you to know they are also victims. Exactly. But I can't place their victimization over the victim of the crime. I can't. I can't do it. So then you have the from ox who tell me, "What do you mean? But here there's 10 carbonas. This is only one." I said, "Yeah." But this person made his carbonas knowingly to his family. He's the ovlah. What's her fault? What's his fault? And this is where people don't want to take a step back and say, "Wait. Is what I'm doing affecting not just this, but the next generation?" You know, it's it's it's very interesting. People always come to me, "You can't believe the victim cuz they're not from anymore." What does that mean? No, no. Why should they be from? This is what made him not from. >> Well, sometimes they they they they go off the they go off the they >> there's no off the We don't know who's there or his wife. Stop it. It's ridiculous. By the way, Rabbi Ronald Greenwald had the best line. His business card said, "Ronald Greenwald ODD, off the derech." >> [laughter] >> But that was his joke. But yeah. But the idea is you abuse a child like that, then you don't give the child validation. Right. And the child becomes angry on their boynishlum, becomes angry on everybody. So, it doesn't know what to do with themselves. >> was asked to speak >> they they go outside. And now you what happens is they turn the tables. Look at this kid. Can't believe this kid. Who who created this kid? I was asked to speak about this topic specifically, okay? And I said it as follows. It's not true that every kid that went off the derech was abused. That's not true. Maybe 20 years ago, 30 years ago, 40 years ago, today already there's 100 excuses. >> Okay. You know the part that shocks me? Why didn't every single person that was abused go off the derech according to them. Why? We're using the same Torah to hurt them. Maseira, pikuach nefesh, are cool with the family, tzedakah, hatzolas nefashos, right? The Torah that's supposed to protect them, that says lo sisa dam re'acha, right? Lifnei ivar. By the way, lifnei ivar applies when you cover up when you protect an abuser and then he does it again, it's lifnei ivar also. But again, what do I know? They know more than me. But at the end of the day, if I'm telling you the Torah is real, Masei Emes, right? Kibbutz Torah M'Sinai, shul is again, right? Go through that. But what does the Torah teach me? The Torah teaches me that I was abused, I got to shut my mouth. So the Torah can't be real. I'm shocked that every single victim and survivor of sexual abuse even still believes anything. I'm shocked. And the work they do, they work on themselves and they It's unbelievable. We can't We don't give them enough credit. >> We don't. What about the people who are saying, because it is so important, the awareness. It's the awareness that's important, because if you will teach the kids you can't run after the pedophiles. You can only bring an awareness, get into schools and talk to the children, talk to them about their body, talk to them about all these things. Why What What are you saying to these people who say this is a topic that needs to be spoken on Shabbos, not on camera, and quiet, and let's keep it by ourselves. Let's handle it on our own. >> So here's what I say to them, right? When a kid goes to kindergarten Yeah. and they're crossing the street with the mora, right? How does that process go? They have to hold hands, in some places the mora has a stop sign, but they're all told this is for your life. They're actually kids are told at 5, 6, 7 years old, if you run into the street you can die. They might not know what die means, but they're certainly scared of it, right? When a kid starts learning how to swim, right? We put them in the pool, right? We work with them, start by using the board, start this, but we teach them. Did anybody ever say to themselves, wait 1 second, stop. We can't teach them how to swim cuz they might jump in on purpose and kill themselves. We can't teach them how to cross the street because they're going to run into the street. No, cuz that's part of education. All of a sudden, it comes to something that can destroy their entire life. All of a sudden, if we bring it up, it's going to make more people What? More people Michigan, now. The reason why is because people want to skirt their responsibility. At the end of the day, is it the parents' responsibility? It is. It is. It is important. >> But how much can parents already do? Meaning, I can give you the book, right? Uncle Willie tickles. You can get the Jewish books, you know, they have you can get the Yankee Harwitz made the book and and and Mugain Mugain New Mugain New York, all these different I don't even know all the names of these organizations. But now that you go kid goes to school, right? Most kids pick up their habits from 30 other kids in the class. >> Right. So now, the 30 kids in the class are sitting in the class together. Those that parents did speak about something will make a joke about it. Other ones will laugh about it. So again, we're going back to the mixed messaging. Now, let me remind you of the most important mixed messaging, right? I was in school. I had a science book. The section in the science book that was blacked out is the only section I wanted to learn. Right. When you teach me Humish and you say this Rashi we don't learn, I will know that Rashi better than any other Rashi. >> Right. What are we thinking? What are we thinking? You know, I I've said this a hundred times. I'll say it a hundred and one. What is the holiest day of the year? Yom Kippur. What is considered to be the most auspicious holiest time of Yom Kippur? Before Neilah. Neilah, right? That's That's what coming in to it. >> Yeah. At the finish line, right? >> Yeah. What is the holiest book that we have in Judaism? The Torah. Right. What is the last thing we learn from the Torah before Neilah? Exactly this. The Shishah Sedarim Mishkan >> Shouldn't we be learning about Teshuvah? About Avodah? Right? Isn't that No. You mean for God it's okay that we're going to discuss these topics the holiest day right before the holiest time in the holiest place? This is what we're discussing. This is That's a message. This is what's important. >> is not good enough for the school. >> No. And it's not good enough for the rabbonim. But the Torah could do it, we can't. >> Right. I'll never forget there was a section in one of the book topics that they were doing on on jealousy, right? It's a part of their curriculum. And a rebbe went crazy. Oh my God. You're using Yosef as an example of the Shivtei Kah. How can you paint such a picture of the Shivtei Kah? And he ran to Rav Breuer and Rav David cuz they're the haskamah on the program. Yeah. And I remember like it was yesterday. It was a Motzei Shabbos at a Torah Mesorah convention. And he goes to Rav Lese. He says, "Look. Look what they're teaching." And the Rosh Yeshiva turned to him and goes, "You mean the Gemara about Basra is is wrong? Rashi is wrong? This is why it's there. You're going to change the Torah to fit your narrative?" But that's what we do. We change the Torah to fit our narrative. We tell a victim of abuse, "Because of this Torah that's supposed to protect you, right? You are now going to continue to be abused. But now believe in it, right?" >> Yeah. We tell the person who's going through the hardest time in their life, a parent died young, whatever, any sort of traumatic episode, right? It's okay, it was meant to be. There's nothing worse to tell a child in pain or anyone in pain, it was meant to be. That line needs to be removed from our vocabulary. True or not doesn't matter. Right. The messaging is not there. It was meant to be. It's for the greater good. What's the greater good? Reuben got molested, it's for the greater good? What are you doing? What are you mixing in? This one watched his father die in a car crash, it's for the What are you doing? Oh, it's because we're living in such a baby society that we can't do it. What? Stupidity? This is what we're doing. Mixed messaging. >> Right. That's it. That's what it comes down to. >> And then this And then we see it And we see the results. Yeah. This is the results that we see. Now, also what's very important in the awareness when um uh about these abusers, these are mind manipulators. And this type of abuse is is is such a different type of abuse because it's a silent abuse. This is not screaming. This is not yelling. This is something that with this innocent face, they stay calm and the victim becomes the idiot now. Starts like a fool explaining themselves. It is abuse the next level. >> Blaming themselves for the abuse. Blaming themselves for the abuse. Blaming themselves. And that's what the abusers do. That's what they instill in them. Right. So, that's why awareness and education is so important because And people have to know this and people have to understand that this is not something that you they were waiting for witnesses. You know what else is important? There's no fingerprints. >> of yichud are also important. >> Yeah. And my philosophy is yichud between men and men also. Wow. But we have a rule. Nobody's ever Certain people, right? This is the answer right here. What what should I do? She she enticed me. She enticed you? Why were you in a situation where she was able to entice you? Because I was counseling her. Okay, so then don't counsel girls. If you know you have that type of Right. Because of this because Ronnie Greenwald never once sat alone with the girl. I can attest to that. >> He had a girl's school. He had a girl's He had a girl's school when he when he used to hang out by by by by by BCA brother Wallach used to run a girl's school. He had a girl's school. When he you know, when I moved in he started by the way he was our first director of our advisory board. He was our first one. He was the chair of the advisory board. I used to see him in camp. He had this outside section outside on a porch. >> Yeah. Okay? Not closed in. And that was where he would sit with the girl. And he was 75 years old. But he's doing it from when he was 30. No matter what. And I he once said to me he goes, "Svi, the way to avoid trouble, follow Yichud Halachas. That's it. You'll be fine." And you know what? People make fun of me. I don't drive girls to and from camp. I go up every week my wife I don't do it. They ask me all the time. I don't do it. No. Why? Because you don't cuz I have to practice what I preach. I don't do these things. If every rebbe and teacher, by the way, we have to also say something. We have to also make sure people realize the rabbaim and the teachers are not the bulk of our problems in sexual abuse. We got to just get this out there. They get a very bad rap. 93% of the cases we deal with are molested either within the family or very close family friends. >> Very important. So it's very important for people to know that because the public they they I mean I was once sitting at an at a dinner of a certain yeshiva and someone goes, "Oh, I wonder how many pedophiles are in this room?" And I'm like, "Why would you say that?" He goes, "Look at all the rabbaim." I said, "You mean all the families?" Right. In other words, like what are you saying? We we painted this picture of it. But but there's a real big secret that the people don't know that it happens inside. It's very disgusting but >> let's not forget when it's abuses within the family, not only is the victim embarrassed and feeling ashamed, the victims for sure don't want to testify. So, That's even more powerful. Turn around. Apologize. You know, apologize. Own it. Get help. Do what you got to do. But this is what it is. It's mixed messaging. But let me ask you another question. I know that you guys are also addressing domestic abuse. So, as an organization, we deal with primarily abuse and addiction and I don't like to use the word severe mental [clears throat] health issues cuz everyone is severe, but more like hospitalization, suicidality, eating disorders. We're not like people are calling for anxiety whatever, they should call Relief. And I'm not saying this in a bad way. There are amazing organizations. We do case management. total organization. Right. We're doing case management though. We get into the kishkes of it. So, we deal with domestic violence. >> You you find that in marriages um that that you know, couples or people are violent. Do you see a lot of those cases like uh So, we're actually part of a a committee now with UJA. They put together a bunch of organizations um Project Shalom and we're all from different parts of the Jewish spectrum but all involved. And so, domestic violence is a very very serious issue. But I also want to say something that people don't know. Or they won't agree. What happens when it's a 6-ft-2 guy and a 5-ft-2 wife and the wife is beating up the husband and he doesn't hit back because he doesn't want to. Who could he tell? I'm using that as an meaning I'm saying not to put the me at your me. Who can a wife? Be embarrassed first of all. What happens when a wife tells her family? Oh, we told you you shouldn't marry the bum. First of all, guys, the first thing you tell somebody that comes to you for help is what's going to stick in their head. Right. Whether it's a victim of abuse, whether it's a victim of domestic violence, whether it's anything. Right? The guy goes, "I was abused." Oh, how could it be such a holy No, shut your You know, I heard this joke on on on on Instagram and I'm I have to start using it myself, but I think this is the best message we can give people. Somebody says, "When I got married, my father gave me the best advice." What was the best advice he gave you? The advice he gave me was, "When your wife says or does something stupid, don't say the first thing that comes to mind and don't say the second. Say the third." And he says, "For many years I didn't have that problem. And then I'm doing a road trip with my wife," he says, "and my wife we get to the first stop and she opens up the ice box and everything is melted." "And my wife says, 'I can't believe this ice box it melted.' And I said to my wife, 'What do you mean? Did you put ice in it?' 'No, duh. It's an ice box. You don't need ice.' The first thing that came to my mind, he says, was, 'Wow, you're an idiot.' The second thing that came to my mind was, "Shh. How did you not know that? The third thing was, 'You know what, honey? Yeah, this company is crazy. We should send them a letter.'" If we were to practice the concept of watching what we say, right? Shmiras Halashon, which is not only about lashon hara. People make this thing Yes, lashon hara is bad, but it's Shmiras Halashon is not only lashon hara. It's also being sensible, common sense. A woman says, "I was just hit by my husband." The answer is, "Oh, I'm sorry to hear that." Now, I can always tell people, you can validate the feelings without the action. That means even if you don't believe something happened, >> But this is the the way she feels. >> Validate the feeling. Just be a mensch. Most of the things that we end up dealing with, the stuff that the most success comes when we get to something right away and the person felt comfortable and the first person they said something to listen to them, heard what they had to say, didn't change the topic and rush them out. The cases where the people are pushed down right after they disclose what happened, th- those are the most difficult to deal with. Well, how do you deal with a with a case like that? If let's say you find out that uh husband is hitting his wife or the wife. I mean, you send them for help and what do you >> Listen, so you so so you try to send them for help. You You also have to remember there's different ways of of dealing with things, right? So obviously, if somebody's over 18 and they're not going to make a report to the police, it's actually illegal for you to make a report about them. People People always have tiny s- Why don't more people go to the police? You can't force people to do something. That's not our place. But it's not just First of all, if the husband's hitting the wife, that means he has an anger issue. Don't don't make it about the wife. How could you do this to her? He has to go help himself. >> something is really bothering you. How about we get you help? You don't want to live like this. Y- Are you happy? Nobody's ever happy when they calm down, right? >> Right. But if you make it about the wife or the kid or whatever it is, all of a sudden now you're shifting the focus in a way that makes sense to them. And that just continues building up the problems there till the point that it's not able to be resolved. Mhm. And you know, I think Rabbi Shais Taub said this um um one of his podcasts. I just saw something about it. He learned from his father. His father did couples counseling. And the couples would always come in. The first thing they'd want to do is bash each other terribly. He would always stop them and say, "What's the purpose of coming here? Is it for reconciliation or for divorce?" If they say reconciliation, you go, "Good. Stop. So, this is not the way to reconcile." "No, but they have to know." They don't have to know. Relax. If it's for divorce, okay, so you'll get divorced. Out. Meaning, lower the temperature. Right. >> But, find a common ground with anybody. By the way, this is on anybody that's struggling on anything, right? If the person is struggling from addiction, and the biggest problem is your abuser to the family, they're never going to get help. Right. No, you're my son. You're my brother. You're my sister. I love you. Something is wrong. Whatever the point is, anything. But, I I I had a case now my I want you to know if this didn't just happen to me and I I Sometimes you asked, "How do you deal with something?" I can tell you something now. I don't know how to deal with it. I don't know. [clears throat] I get a call from a parent about their child. The question starts off with, "What do I do if there's going to be a family simcha and the abuser is going to be there?" Yeah. "What do I do with my child who was the victim?" Child's been in therapy for 7 years. Nothing helps. Nothing this. Nothing They're They're giving a whole speech. In the conversation, I'm asking her a few pointed questions. Said, "Let me ask you a question." She keeps saying, "My child is sick. She doesn't want to get better." "What do you mean she doesn't want to get better? Stop. Stop. Stop." "In the last 7 years that you knew about this, was there ever any family function that occurred that because the abuser was at, she couldn't go?" She said, "Of course." I said, "So, you did nothing for 7 years? You never No, but we told her we believe her. It's the rest of the family and I'm like, "No, it doesn't matter. She's not not wanting to get help. You're not allowing her to get help. I'm not saying you're doing it consciously. As a parent, you're doing everything right. You got them therapy and you're working and you're trying and you're supporting your child. But how could your child heal if every time they turn around the abuser is validated over the victim? Every time. There's no There's no healing process here. What's the healing process? So, you're telling her you believe her, but there's no chance to heal. Well, there's going to be a simcha and the uh khaseneh coming up and and my parents are coming in and my parents I I have to I said, "You don't go to any simcha that your daughter won't go to." Start with that. >> That's what it is. Start with that. You're talking about support, the real support, the validation. If she can't go and this is a fact that this was happening and you validate it, you don't go. >> You don't go. How can I do this to them? It's her fault. She doesn't want to get get better. But that But this is the reality. The reality is that things like this happen and to me it's like and I even said to this person, I said, "I don't know if you're going to listen to me or not, but I'm begging you to listen to me. I don't know your name. I don't have your phone number. I can't get back to you. You called me anonymously. You gave me a story, a conversation. We have a discussion, but I'm crying for this girl. Crying for this girl. Crying. This has nothing to do Police, not police. Yes, investigate. Yes, this girl How is she ever going to heal? What you're saying is that by them going to the to the event um this girl doesn't feel validated. She feels >> But she said it's okay if we go. I said, "It doesn't matter." She's saying it, but that's not what she's thinking. It's not what she's feeling. Wow. You want to hear that it's okay. So, go. Yeah. Wow. So, that's that's the awareness. That's the education that we really um need. What would you want that any survivor that's listening to this should hear? So, my message to survivors and I I I I I speak about this really is while I I speak very harshly. I say what's on my mind. I speak about the worst side of the coin. But, the fact is we are light-years ahead of where we were. We are. We have light-years to go, but we are light-years ahead. >> Right. We're not backing down. As a community, we are resilient. We are showing it. Stay strong. We believe you. We care about you. We want to make sure that you can not live, not survive, thrive. We want to see you as a productive member of society, which you could do. The abuse does not define you. It does not You know, people say to me, "Will I ever get cured from the abuse?" I hear this all the time. I say, "Listen, I I can't take away what happened. I can't magically make it disappear. If a person has a major surgery, they lose a limb, right? They're learning to live without the limb. Will their life be the same? No. But, will they be able to figure it out? Yes. The point is if somebody is looking for like the healing miracle and this is it doesn't happen. It's it's a it's a real part of life, but that doesn't have to define you. It shouldn't define you. And you're better than that. You're bigger than that. You're stronger than that. And you know what? The fact that any survivors is even willing to listen to this already shows that they're strong. They want to hear things. >> Right. They might not be ready yet to do what has to be done, but that doesn't take away from their strength. Wow, it's amazing. How do you stay strong when you're being criticized and blamed? Because this is not an organization that you're going to get an applause. This is not an organization that you're going to get uh you know, you have a lot of pressure. Pressure from big people, small people, families. You made yourself a set of sunnah that people will think that you're the worst of the worst. How do you stay strong in a time that you know the MS is with you? So, first of all, I'm going to break it up into two categories, okay? I'm in therapy every week and I see my psychiatrist once a month. >> Well, that is brave. I am I am proud of it. I go to it. As a matter of fact, I'm having oral surgery tomorrow. I had to reschedule my therapy. I didn't finalize the oral therapy the oral surgery till I could was able to reschedule my therapy. When I travel, I do it on Zoom. That's number one. I am in therapy. I am proud of being in therapy. I'm not embarrassed about being in therapy. >> the stigma. That's it. People go to therapy. It helps. >> Love it. >> Now, family support, a good wife, supportive wife, kids that understand and respect it and value it. You know, when my kids were younger, so it used to be very important whenever I went on hot solo call on Shabbos, so my kids were trained at a young age to take out a tehilim and to say the line pikauch nefesh dochashabbos. Why? Cuz when I was a kid and my father was going on hot solo calls on Shabbos, people used to say, "Oh, your father's mechallel Shabbos." Now, I knew it wasn't true, but it kids So, again, you train your kids. I have a good support system. But, there's also something the other side of it, which is like this. Do you believe in God? Yes, absolutely. >> Okay. You believe that there's a may've esrim a din v'cheshbon on everything that happened here. Absolutely. So, then how do you not do the right thing? It It It doesn't make sense to me. In other words, if I know that I have to answer for this, then I'm going to have to answer for it. Very powerful stuff with the right >> Now ask me the question, "What about the rabbonim that don't answer it? What about them?" What I'm hearing you say is that you have the rabbonim on your side. It's the only one. >> in the rabbonim. You have emunah. A simple blind faith, and you know you're doing the right thing. The rabbonim is on your side. I have to I have to make a decision. What is going to be asked of me? And how am I going to answer it? That's the And And now, you want to tell me I used to be upset when people that I respected and looked up to didn't do the right thing. I used to be upset. Until I understood "Aila mafli raisi." They're not really who we think they are. They're wearing Purim costumes all year. Once I learned that, it doesn't affect me anymore. I feel bad for them. I feel bad for the people that follow them. But if somebody truly believes that there's going to be a din v'cheshbon, how do you not do the right thing? I mean, the guy tells me, "What do you mean but the fact" I said, "Again, but this is temporary, right? If it's temporary, I want eternity." I don't want to live my life of saying "But this person, but that person." That's a person. I have to make sure that my family is taken care of. I have to make sure that they respect what I do. I have to make sure that I'm not hurting them in what I do cuz that's an achrayis on me. But I don't I don't Again, so I don't mind if people tell me they don't believe cuz at least then it gives the answer. Cuz you can't tell me you believe and you're doing an obvious wrong thing. It's not possible. It doesn't make sense. It it it It's So you don't believe, so don't believe. Okay, at least we have a reason. Now I got to work on your humanity if it's not going to be religion. Wow. It's unbelievable. Now, after what you're saying, um you're so connected to the Rebbe Nachman and and the stuff that you see, how do how do you daven? What do What's going through your head when you daven? When you you you hear so many stories. So first of all, we forget what davening is. Let's Let's take it a step back, okay? Spirituality is the number one thing, even for not people that aren't religious, by the way. You could be spiritual. I mean, we we teach this even in AA and NA or the 12 steps, right? Spirituality is key. What is davening to most people? To most people, it's taking a book and it's saying things you don't know what you're saying. You're skipping half the words. You're looking at your clock and saying when can I leave, right? Rebbe Nachman taught us his way to this in a very different way. Now, what's more important to me, personally? Is it my personal relationship? Is it my personal spirituality or is it my being in a shul where everybody could see me and go, "Look, he's in shul davening." Now, I'm not knocking people that go to shul. I want to make that very clear. And I'm not saying I don't go. I I want to make that very clear. But my prayer is not my davening Shacharis, Mincha, Maariv. That's not my spiritual connection. It's not. Shuckle all you want, dance, do everything. It's beautiful. Cry, laugh, this That doesn't do it for me. For me, I need my private time. I need to be able to have a conversation with myself. I need to be able to be by myself. I need to be able to think. I need to be able to be in my car, in my Tesla, put it in auto drive, turn off my phone, and spend an hour or 5 minutes. It doesn't matter. Just Connect. processing, connecting, doing what works for me. So, when you ask, "How do you daven?" I have no problem davening. I have no problem at all. If I'm in the mood of having an open conversation, I start talking. If I'm not in the mood, I don't. Going three times a day to shul, which yes, is important and it there's a lot of things about it cabalistically and halachically and everything, but that's not my connection. And if you look around the shul, it's not most people's connection. It's a burden on most people. Yeah. And that's how you don't get numb, and that's how you can sleep at night. I don't know if I sleep at night for a variety of reasons. My wife will be the first to tell you I don't fall asleep ever. I crash asleep. Right. I am up every few hours. I'm I'm saying it. I do take sleeping pills when I need to sleep, which end up being worse for me cuz you get one good night's sleep and it messes you up for the next 4 days cuz you can't. Um My pain comes, and I'm I'm saying this from the story like this mother that called me. When somebody needs help and I can't get them help, that's that is where my emotions get taken. Mhm. When people do things to hurt another person. I don't have those same Okay, so we don't have money, we do have money, we're raising money, we're not raising money, people will give, they won't give, they're stopping to give. All of these things happen. People talk about me, don't talk about me, talk about me, don't talk about me. I do whatever you want. I I I can't live my life for what everybody else thinks of me. I can't. But when somebody reaches out for help and you can't help them, either because you don't have the money to help them, you don't have the system to help them, the people around them aren't letting them get the help. That is my emotional shot, you know, my emotional switch. Mhm. Wow. That is That is That just shows who you are. That just shows you You were chosen for this for this position. You told me that the podcast is called the struggle and I have to I have to share what the struggles are. I have struggles like everybody else. Question for you. Go for it. Who is your role model? So, I have a few. Okay. I've mentioned them all tonight, but I have a few. >> Yeah. My father first and foremost, which I have two things he could never have. Mhm. I could say I'm Rabbi Gluck's son and I had the best teacher in the world. Wow. Share with us a little bit. I know he is now a roof official Rabbi in Galicia. And and and share with us a little bit because I remember him from years that he was a askan. He was a real askan. That word That word didn't exist yet. When he was running around and I remember that he was involved with the state police. He was, I think, the pioneer of this Mincha area. Was he the one who started this thing, the most popular thing? He was all over years ago. >> just that he started the thing, it's the way in which it came about. My father taught me teaches me still baruch Hashem. But he taught me some very very I don't even know the right word to say cuz it's not even lessons, it's foundation. And the main foundation that I say, the main planting was when there's a problem, make sure that it's a solution, not a problem. That means people say to me, "What's the problem?" There's no problem. There's a solution. We may not know it yet. And the Mincha area is one of those like beautiful classic stories where my father gets a phone call from the major up in in troop T I think it was called then the throughway and he says Rabbi we're going to start having problems with people on the road. We're going to start writing summonses. People might actually even get arrested because these guys, you know, they pull over on the side and the kids are running around and it's dangerous and it's putting people's lives at risk. Some people would get up and say guys, you can't do this. Find a shul get off the highway. But my father knows what's real, you know, he knows what people will or won't do. Which I will tell you a great story that led into this story, but my father knows. So instead of taking that route, he goes let's find a solution. And he came up with this idea for the mincha area and you should know the first few years it was actually called the mincha area. The throughway sign said mincha area until the NCLU the New York Civil Liberties Union sued my father for separation church and state. And that's when they changed the word to meeting area and then they moved it from it used to be the side of the road. Then when Sloatsburg opened up, they moved it to Sloatsburg but not to the Sloatsburg side to the right of it. So you would go into the Sloatsburg area, make a right and go onto the grass. Like that was the area. And then it became, you know, what it became which is I mean, you know, how many ameni yeshmei rabas, but the story goes back to the Satmar rebbe itself. Yeah, I was going to ask you. He was close. He was helping out in the early years of the area. >> close with all the gedolim of the last generation. Chassidish, Litvish, Sefardish, it didn't matter. And and that's also something that we growing up in a house where we were open to everything keeping our values intact but open to everything. So yes, my father created the shtetl of Kiryas Joel. He created the shtetl of Skver. Again He was involved in the mincha >> Skver was first by the way. Skver got earlier, but then Square said, "Well, but the story goes that my father gets a call from one of the heads of customs, and he says, "Listen, Rabbi, I know that what I'm going to tell you now is going to be a problem, but the guys are coming in with their phylacteries, and they're flying in from Belgium, and they got diamonds in the phylacteries. Now, we know that if we come out and say something, they're going to say we're anti-Semites, we're this, we're that, but it doesn't matter. These people are literally smuggling in smuggling in millions of dollars in their phylacteries, and we're going to start opening them up." So, my father went right away to the Satmar Rebbe. He says, "Listen, it's Hasidim. The Rebbe has kashrut. What what can you do something? Tell these people." He says, "I am poor." I'll say it in English, but it sounds better. >> yeah. He says, "If I tell people that they have to eat meat for breakfast, they're going to eat the biggest steaks. And if I tell them they have to dance three times in a circle, they're going to do it six. When it comes to telling people how to make money and how to do their business, they're not listening to me. I'm sorry, I can't help you. There's nothing I can do." That was the lotion used. "There's nothing I can do." Okay. A week later, my father gets a call back from the head of customs. He goes, "Rabbi, I don't know what you did, but it stopped on a dime." So, my father runs right back, and he goes to the Rebbe, and he says, "I I need to know. What what did the Rebbe do?" Rebbe goes, "I told you. There's nothing I can do. I did nothing." My father says, "Satmar Rebbe, please. I mean, you know." He says, "No, no, no. It's mine. It's I did nothing." We know that by us, minag is stronger than halakha. Minag Israel kaddish. The halakha is you can't steal money, smuggle in government, but the minag is that you go to the Rebbe for a brakha before you get on a plane. So, anybody who came to me and said they're going to Belgium, I just didn't give a brocha to. I did nothing. That's the type of thinking that was like everybody could see a problem and most people, and rightfully so, there are times I wish I was some of those people, I'm not going to argue, but most people are going to like, "Okay, it's someone else's problem. It's not for me. I did my part. I did my he- But my father instilled in me and still instills in me the importance of looking past that, looking for the solution, looking for an answer. Wow. And is he is he some some Arab issue descent? Is he coming from >> actually has a very interesting background. He himself was born in Germany in 1936. Came to America in '38. The family became very close with Rabbi Schabik. He was still young in the Bronx. And that's where the Heimische and the Tias came from. Now, the Gluck family in Germany was the only family in Hamburg that was allowed to Daven in the Yekkishe Shuls and in the Ostjuden Shul. Now, in Germany it was a big thing. If you weren't part of them, >> You couldn't get into the other one. >> happened to be that from my father's the family, there was enough intermarriage between the Alexanders and the Germans, even though they came by World War One time. And my great-great-grandfather was the Bal Sham from Michelstadt. So, because the Glucks were from that family, you know, they were allowed to be both. So, they were raised Listen, if you ever see my father, even today he's can I now almost 90 years old. He goes out three-piece suit, his pocket watch, his tie, like, you know, [clears throat] >> was 20. But that's that's the Yekkishe side, you know, a Wort zu Wort, honesty, integrity. That's that's the Yekki side. But the Heimische side is, you know, you go to the Rebbe, you go for broches, you do the thing, you take the good We take the good out of everything, which by us is a little confusing cuz we eat in the Sukish meaning at service. We were at Svilna Chalamoud. Daveners of Chashkenaz wait 6 hours. >> [laughter] >> I mean like, you know. Yeah. So Baruch Hashem. So very good. Excellent. So you had a nice good role model. Mendy Klein Mhm. taught me the power of emotion. Uh I can tell you what was taught. Taught me the power of emotion. Feeling another person. Feeling. Really feeling. Now, tell us about him. Like how did you get this calling? This This story is what you're now. >> is probably one of the most fascinating stories in the world. I'm very close with Moishe Wolfson. And every family simcha that they had, I always went to. And at this point, I was working for Laser Shiner and Fitzwilliam Shiner. They were my employers. I'm not sure what I did for them. I know what I did for Klal Yisrael, but I was like, you know, just running around with my car and helping people and doing what I did and they were, you know, the bread and butter to pay the bills. But at some point towards the end of 2013, middle of 2014, Laser sat me down one day and he goes, "Enough is enough. You need to take what you're doing to a greater level." And I said, "Absolutely not." Cuz I know what that means. That means opening an organization. That means raising money. That means dealing with I said, "I just like doing what I do." And he he wouldn't take no for an answer. He goes, "But it what you're doing is not fair. You have koachus. We see it. That's why we've been supporting you all these years, but you got to take it to the next level." Okay, so he planted the seed in my head. I was very much against it. No interest. Moishe was making the bris. It was the first name after his father, Reb Zev Wolfson, the legendary bal tzedaka that I mean, you know, changed the way we gifted up in the world. And this was the first child to be named Zev. And after the bris, Moishe goes, "Come to my house. Let's uh you know, schmooze a bit." So, I go to his house. I'm sitting in his house. And all of a sudden, some guy shows up, rings the bell, comes in. He's wearing a cowboy hat. I don't know him. He doesn't know me. And he sits down and for the next hour we're schmoozing together. Literally just schmoozing, having conversations, me, him, Moishe, about every topic under the sun. At some point, my phone rings. I walk out and it was my BlackBerry. And I'm having a fight with somebody on the phone about money, bail. Bail was already paid. "How could you do this? You made a deal. I'm not going to let him get on the plane." And I start yelling and screaming. And I I remember yelling at the top of my voice. I said, "I don't understand. So, I'm rich guy that doesn't even know him, put down a half a million dollars cash bail on the condition that when the guy comes back to America from Israel, he was being extradited, he was guaranteed bail was pre-posted, he doesn't have to go to jail." He might have to go to jail for the case. That's a separate discussion. But we're talking this was the deal. "And if you're not going to do this," I start threatening him. It gets fiery. Anyway, he says, "We'll get back to you." I end up making another phone call. I tell them, "Do not let him get on the plane. Keep him in the airport." Fine, blah blah blah, circles. Within about 10 minutes, I got a call back. "Okay, we're going to honor the commitment and bail will be considered posted. He's going to land. We won't even meet him at the airport. He can come on his own to the court the next day and fine." I go back inside and Mendy goes, "What was that?" And I said, "Ah, I don't like to discuss whatever it is." He goes, "No, don't give me any names. Just what is it?" So, Moishe starts smiling. I said, "Yeah, Moishe and I have been involved in this together for many years. It was a Yid that left to Israel before an indictment, so it wasn't like he ran away and it was based on an assault that was involving a correction officer's son and he was in Shomrim in Crown Heights and everybody knew that if he ends up getting arrested and it's corrections and even if he's in for one day, like this is one of those few cases cuz I happen to hate the word pidyon shvuyim because we use it for everything. People don't know the halacha of pidyon shvuyim. Everything is pidyon shvuyim. Everything is not pidyon shvuyim. But this was one of those few cases where the halacha, this guy would have been killed in jail for the fact that he was Jewish. Like even though in New York City people don't and the DA had agreed and some rich guy put down a half a million dollars bail. I don't even know who and now they were just going to pull the permission right before the guy's getting on the flight. And he looks at me and he goes, "Some rich guy." He looks at Moishe. He goes, "I've been called a lot of things in my life. Never heard that one." And I like turn into a ghost. Like, "You put down that money?" And all of a sudden Moishe's like, "Wait. You guys don't know each other?" He says, "No. Who are you?" "Mendy Klein." "I've never even heard the name. Who are you?" "Zvi Gluck." "You're Zvi Gluck?" "I was expecting somebody much older." I looked at him. I said, "I'm sorry to disappoint." And he says, "No, no, no. I'm trying to get you for 2 years to meet with me. You're ignoring me." And Moishe's like, "What? You never" "Yeah, check your emails." I take out my Blackberry and I start looking. Mendy Klein. Good. Nothing comes up. Look up Robert Klein. Okay, so I go. I look in the emails. Robert Klein. I have an email from a Karen O'Rourke at ROK Enterprises stating, "Hi Mr. Gluck. My boss, Robert, would like to meet with you. Please email me back so we can make arrangements. I'm supposed to think that means something. I'm seeing an address in Cleveland. Like I kept ignoring it. So that was how I met him. And from there there was literally a series of Siachuk Des Maya stories one after another until one day he calls me up and he goes we're going to do something. And I yelled at him and I hung up on him. I said no we're not. All these rich people, you guys are all the same. I could be dealing with these problems and you're all saying you're going to do and you don't do. And I hung up the phone on him. Moshe Wolfson calls me. He goes, "Tzvi, are you crazy? He means it." I'm like, "Yeah, let him put his money where his mouth is. I don't need his advice." He says, "Tzvi, when he said he has an idea, the idea was to fund you so you can put something together. Please make up with him." So I call him back and from there the rest is history and and he he did tell me something that he said as long as I'm alive you'll never have to worry about raising money. And not because he covered everything, but lema'aseh because of him he was able to He used to get so emotionally invested we probably raised over $2 million just from emails I sent them saying I need 20,000, 30,000 for this case, that case and he would send it out to like a thousand people and say how much money he's giving they should give. So he lived it and uh he just I mean I will say his family is amazing. His his his wife Ita is amazing. His kids, they're all great. But that that powerful force of Mendy Klein being here He was just a special heart. >> Just a special heart. He was touch it up his whole bucha when he was younger. He's got all these stories. But But this was his brainchild that he had a he had a soft spot nobody had a soft spot for mental illness. He had a soft spot for for addictions. He had He had a his soft spot was primarily for I mean from our perspective was sexual abuse. >> Sexual abuse. >> But not stomp sexual abuse. >> Right. We initially started Amudim, our original plan was for de-stigmatization. We never I shouldn't say we. I never imagined it would be what it is. Looking back now at the original incorporation papers that Mendy put together with the lawyers, everything we're doing now is already in there, which means he had a foresight back in 2014 to see this on a much different scale that none of us ever imagined. But his vision was de-stigmatization. That was how it started. We're going to get the community to stop brushing it under the rug. >> Wow. That is amazing stuff. It's an amazing person. And um he was way older than you at that time, right? >> He was way I mean his kids are older than me. I'm saying you know, he was uh he was already in retirement. Wow. So so that's where you you took that calling and you decided this is your shlichus. Again, first of all, he did put his money where his mouth was. And people always say to me like, "How did Amudim get so big so quick?" I'm like, "It's very simple. We worked hard. We were invited to be keynotes at Agudah conventions, at Torah Mesorah conventions. In the Lakewood, we had an event with over 1,300 people. Oh, but that only happened cuz a guy with a lot of money was behind us making sure it happened. Right. I said, "That's all you need to make any organization successful." But I'll tell you by the time he passed away, Amudim was already a recognized name. And that if not for him from doing what he did, we would never not be where we are now or even have it grown to it. But he he to him it was a life's mission and it was him and Moishe and Moishe's house that sat with me and said, "This is what you're doing." Wow. Like I wasn't looking for it. I wasn't planning on it. I mean, yes, the when he mentioned it and with Laser Shiners, you know, words echoing saying, "You got to take it to the next." And the truth is, I will tell it to you. You say the struggle, right? I'll tell you the struggle. If I would know if I would have known then what I know now, I could promise you I would never have agreed to do it. >> Wow. Which is why I'm thrilled I didn't know. Right. >> Because at the end of the day, I'm loving the fact that we're able to do this with all the pain and everything. But if you would have told me 11 years ago, these are the battles you're going to have, this is what it's going to be, this is you know, you're going to have communities coming after you, you're going to have donors pulling out on you, threatening you, using money as tools, you're going to have people that you helped stabbing you, you're going to have people that you can't help being angry that you can't cuz you can't if I would have known all the negative pieces emotionally, I would have never agreed. Ronnie Greenwald taught me the power of caring, but caring through teaching. It's a very interesting thing. The last case he ever gave me was an impossible case. I had to get a child of a biracial non-married couple into a from base Yaakov when she was much darker than the rest of the class. Yeah. That was the last thing he gave me and I was like, are you Baruch Hashem, I could say now the kid's in high school doing amazing, but the point is that was the last thing he gave me. He didn't tell me, "Tzvi, this is what has to be done." He taught me that. Reb Meir Zlotowitz, zichrono livracha, taught me a tremendous power of kindness. He was a kind person. Mhm. Just kind. And I mentioned Gary Torgow taught me the power of humility. And Laser Schiner taught me the power of tzadakah. Giving. Giving. These are the people that are my role models. Psh. I have many people I look up to for many things, but my father is the number one, but these people taught me to lahavdil between the living and the dead. I should have been more careful how I I that, but that's it. But your accomplishments show that you're a good talmud. You're learning. You know, the joke people say to me is, "Oh, you know, you're giving your father nachas, you know, oh, it's about time." I said, "Listen, I'm trying to make up for the 15 years of gehenim I put him through." >> Nachas. I was not an easy child. >> Mhm. I was Rabbi Gluck's son. Mhm. I got away with everything. Wow. But But this is this is your journey. This is where you ended up in this avenue, but >> I was planning on being rich in finance. I was going to be the guy giving money. Mensch tracht und Gott lacht. You know what? Like I started in the beginning, it is a very lonely place. I'm not going to say it's not. Yeah. It's messages like the one I got. You want to know the chizuk? It's from messages like this. That's the chizuk. Okay? Being someplace and somebody coming over that doesn't even know me, never even spoke to me. Your staff did. The joke I say in the office, you know the number one job working at Amudim is? To make me look good. How do you make me look good? By helping people that need help. Wow. That's the key. Also, let me ask you a question. Yeah. How do you define an emergency? Quickly. A bleeding. Right. An ambulance, fire, right? >> You know, I tell the Amudim family how we define an emergency? Mhm. Whatever that person is calling us for. It is absolutely >> That is the emergency. To that person. Now, we might have to prioritize which emergency and how we're going to deal with what. But the empathy that we give that person that called is the emergency. Whether the person called because they have a stubbed toe, or whether the person called because somebody's on the moon, I don't care. The emergency is what that person's calling for. And if there's one message that I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I Don't minimize anybody else's pain and suffering. You don't know what it is. And you shouldn't know what it is, and I don't wish anything upon what I deal with or what I see on anybody on anybody. But if you hear something from somebody, validate them. Validate the feelings if you don't want to validate the story. Validate them. Don't judge. Don't judge. You know what? We don't want to We don't want people to judge us. Why do we judge others, right? Absolutely. Sweet, I want to give you a broche. You should have courage to withstand all the hardships and all the blame that people want to throw on you. May you continue to be a voice for those who cannot talk. For those who cannot speak and and and fight for those who cannot fight. I want to thank you for being there and for standing up for the MS. Thank you so much for coming. >> And >> Thank you. Thank you so much. It was a pleasure. Same here. Thank you. Thank you.