The Struggle Podcast Special Edition - Eli Nash- Plant medicine, Addictions…

Okay, I am privileged here to sit with the great Ellie Nash. Um, let me ask you a question. Um, who is Ellie Nash? >> Who am I? Yeah, >> these are the uh these are the questions I sat with um you know YK Pinkis a book called kosher astrology. >> Okay, >> so I sat with him a few weeks ago and he predicted that the answer to that question will change between the year between May 2025 and 2027 that it'll be a period of great transformation >> right >> um in my uh in my life. >> I hear I hear what you're saying. I'll tell you um I watched your TED the TED talk um on YouTube and that was very powerful very powerful it was a couple of years ago right how many years ago >> it was 2019 pre-COVID >> wow wow >> and that is uh that is very powerful and is that your story um that created in search for more and the house of more So I was speaking before if I take myself back I had a very painful fear of public speaking for very very many years. >> You're doing very good. Even in my business, I started a business 2006, and in meetings I was comfortable, right? Three, four, five people. I was very comfortable in those settings speaking, sharing my ideas, communicating. But once it got to a size, I don't know what the number was if it was eight or 10, if it felt like a public speech. All eyes on me, that attention, I folded. I completely completely folded. >> Then I got to recovery. I started going to meetings. 2013 I started going to regular recovery meetings for sex addiction and there they say to speak but always felt like I was public speaking >> right >> so I started challenging myself there and eventually I realized that there's something much more here it's not just random I think until then I said okay this I'm comfortable with this I have a fear okay if I have a fear why should I do it I'll do something else that's interesting why should I do the thing that I have a fear >> but I realized no there's something much more I have to like poke this beard understand what's behind this fear Eventually once it unlocked for me and I was at the space where I was free to the choice was available. Do I talk? Do I not talk? Then I had an experience where I confronted the guy who sexually abused me. It was a long story. I have a a talk on YouTube. It's to me an interesting story and a lot of people >> that was later in which what year was that? >> So I was sexually abused as a child, >> right? >> And as I started getting into recovery especially recover no way before. ever before. >> Yeah. As I started um understanding the sex addiction, I started understanding the the effects of the abuse much more. I kind of already knew but I thought it affected some assertiveness and vulnerability. But then I saw how it affected things like trust with human beings. My addiction was very much affected by it. And a therapist had told me before I started going to recovery, a therapist had told me, "It'd be very good for you to confront the person who abused you." >> Yeah. And I didn't understand it then, but I was just following direction. Today I realized that he almost robbed me of a power. Did it help? It was transformative >> on a different level. And I'm not saying everyone should do it because there's a lot of risk attached to something like this. >> A lot of risk. It can go wrong. The person could >> Yeah. >> hurt you again. I'm not recommending it to to everyone. But in this case, it was >> a medicine of medicines. >> Wow. >> I sat down with a guy. It took years to get there. this organization JCW helped me out. I eventually had a meeting with him and it felt like the power dynamic switched until that time in my mind. I was still the eight-year-old, he was still the teenager. >> He had all the power. I had none. And in this thing, it shifted. The power dynamic completely shifted. And since then, my life has been different. >> And you forgave him. >> Yeah. >> Completely. >> I forgave him, forgave the world, forgave all of it. >> It's unbelievable. >> I'm good. Not that I don't see effects. I see effects. >> Yeah. >> Till this day, it >> was powerful. >> But what happened was is I tasted this. I tasted a slice of the universe that very few people get to taste. >> How many people do you hear this story about? They get to confront >> their abuser. They have a conversation, a healing, a reconciliation. >> And I was left with this incredible urge is not the right word, like a strong desire to share this with the world. >> So I began speaking a lot about child sex abuse. I did that for about 3 years >> and then I was done. I stopped speaking >> then with a TED talk then I became more passionate about actually helping others speak and said hey there's so much power in the voice >> and today I understand that is that our our like this area this range for that is our power we can't imagine a powerful person you see a powerful person the guy's muscles coming out of his >> right >> ears but if he can't speak he's not powerful right >> to be powerful we have to be able to speak our power comes through our mouth >> through articulating >> so as I understood that I became very passionate about shearing ing that helping other people speak and in my business and in others. Speak, speak up, share, gain, find your power, >> share your story. >> And at some point in one of these a company workshop where I was encouraging a lot of others, I saw how it jumpstarted things in people's career when they started to speak. I said, you know what? I'm going to get up and speak and I'm going to talk about my porn addiction. And the guy looked at me like I >> right >> fell off a >> right >> are you crazy? you the owner of the company gonna talk about a porn business. >> This is a disaster. >> I said, "Well, you're the guy who's coming. I'm bringing you here >> to encourage people to share their story. This story is too much for you." >> He said, "You're crazy to do it." So, I said, "You know what? I'm not going to do it here. I'm not I'm doing it on TED." >> Wow. >> Like, if you can tell me >> if you can tell me the guy who's hired to tell people to tell their stories that this story is not for public consumption, >> we have a much bigger problem. This needs to be >> Wow. So that's when I did the the TED talk. >> Then I didn't do anything after the TED talk. Once COVID hit a new something else popped up inside me where I said, you know something, addicts addicts have to have to question everything in the world. They have to put all their cards on the table and they say what works and what doesn't work. And I felt for co a lot of us had to do the same thing. What works? What doesn't work? And like everything's negotiable now, >> right? >> Do these relationships work? Does this business work? We we have to be willing to play all in, >> right? >> So I said this idea of addicts being anonymous, it's nice, it has some perks and it became not only is it a concept, it became the name of the thing, >> right? >> Alcoholics anonymous. I said, I don't think we should be anonymous anymore. >> So that's when I started doing webinars about addiction and bringing people on with addiction and said, I think addicts should be out of the shadows a little bit >> right now. in this uh you were doing a 12step program a lot >> eight years I was from 2013 through the beginning of covid I was three four times a week >> which one do you think is the hardest from all 12 >> which step is the hardest each one has its own right >> step one is step one is step one you know obviously that takes longest but for me like if someone asked me that question. Give us an answer. Step six. >> Which one is that? For the >> step six is where >> go back to >> we're entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character. >> Right now, what I'm going to come back to it. I want to know why. But um what about um going to people that you hurt? Uh and you know, >> amends. >> Yeah. >> It flows naturally if you did willing to do this one. >> If you're willing to do step six, >> if you're willing to do step six, it not flows naturally. But I didn't find that as tough. Also step eight and nine which deals with the men's are very interesting. So and multiple times in the 12 steps they do this thing. So step eight reads made a list of all p persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all. >> Right? >> We didn't make any amends. Right? It's a step. >> You're you're willing. >> Well I'm willing. I made a list and I'm willing. >> So when I did that with my sponsor he said listen this is what we're doing. Making a list and you're saying whether you're willing. >> I'm not doing anything yet. We're just we're just willing. >> So now just put willing. Not willing yet. Never going to be willing. >> Correct. >> And put those three. And he says, "Okay, so you have one person you're willing to today go today." Now what happens? You go. There's a It's a good experience. Whatever it is, listen. It could be anything. Right. >> Right. That it's amends is not sorry. Let's be very clear. >> Right. You just uh working things out. >> No, amends is fixing the problem. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> you don't go to someone and say, "Sorry, I took 500 bucks from you." You say, "Here's the $500 back." Yeah. You're amending it, >> right? But sometimes there's there's not to. It's just you heard them, you know, as you know, an emotional hurt or whatever. >> But often times in an amend you're going to someone and at the end of it, you're saying this is what I did. This is how it affected you. How could I make it right? >> I can make it up to you. >> And the person can say any the person can say anything. Or what it's often said, I'll give you an example, right? Let's say you have someone who steals from you, okay? But the money is not that huge, but for whatever reason it hurt you, it insulted you, >> but it's not like the $1,000 they took is going to change your life. You don't necessarily need $1,000 back, but the betrayal, all of that was really very like affected you deeply >> and the person says, "I'm deeply sorry. I'm deeply sorry. I'm sorry." And you accept their apology, >> but a week later you heard that they stole from someone else. >> It would undo the whole apology, right? It would undo the whole policy. >> Let me give the reverse. The guy never comes to you. Never comes to you, just know he stole from you. >> But then you see him one day, maybe he's giving a speech in the shul about not stealing, >> right? >> And even if he never came to you, the fact that he's a living example, >> right, >> of treating other people's property with respect, it it'll feel good in your way. So one of the things that they advise is sometimes you can't make amends to someone directly to them but you make what's called a living amends that you say I changed my way of being like they say truest truva is what not doing the same thing again you're faced with the same >> circumstance so it's not always about an individual your sponsor will sometimes say okay you can't make amends to this person >> going to go to someone who you were in let's say you had an inappropriate relationship with them years ago now they're married with two kids you're going to call them on the phone like Yeah, >> don't make amends to them, but make an amends that you're not going to treat women in that way anymore. Make an amends that >> that's >> that is something specific. Make an amends that >> you're going to live differently as a human being. >> Now, after you did that, did you feel like that you're you're light now? >> You you like something went off your chest. You felt like, you know, this is what created what I see now. Right. You you give credit to the 12step. >> Everything >> everything >> everything 12 steps. >> It's very if I think of a pipe. >> Yeah. Right? And the pipe gets clogged. Like we're >> gets clogged with stuff. The 12 steps the process of clearing out our fears, our guilt, >> our shame, like really those things just clearing it out, clearing it out. So we're free to >> you're free to move on. You can you got your life back. So let's talk about your six because I'm very much interested in spirituality and I want to understand how what's your relationship with the bunch with God now. >> You know what level are you now? >> What level? >> Yeah. Step six. >> Step six. We're entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, if I if I went quickly through the steps, step one, two, and three are really you're not doing anything. You're just foundational beliefs. If you want to go if you want to walk through this pathway, walk on this path, then if I don't get you to believe certain things, you can't walk on this path, >> right? >> Okay. So, what are some of the things that you have to believe? One is that your way is not working. >> Yeah. >> Okay. If you believe your way is kind of working at 10%. If only the only reason is because something happened to me as a child and once I heal that then I'll be okay. You're not ready, right? >> This path is not for you. This path is people who know my way doesn't work. Okay, so that's belief number one. >> Belief number two, you could be better. >> You could be better. A lot of people they believe my way doesn't doesn't work, but they believe that they're not capable of change. >> So if you don't believe, then how you going to walk on this path, right? >> This is hard work. >> Yeah. >> Why you going to sit with someone to try to fix the problems that you did 10 years ago? >> Yeah. when you're opening yourself up in a way that you know they can recommend anything under the sun. If you don't believe you can get better. So you have to believe. And then the third it says made a decision to turn my will of my life over to the care of God as we understood God. Right? So you have to actually make a decision. I'm going to do something. >> Surrendering. >> But again we didn't do anything. >> Right? Just these three things. >> Decisions is important. >> It's a decision. We're making a decision and life is going to be different. That's it. I'm living in a different way. >> Living a different way. Now, step four and five is we really get into they call a searching and fearless moral inventory. Let's go through your life. Let's list I want to list all the people who you're upset at. >> What did they do to you? How did you get them back? Tell me all the fears. Go through your day. See what happens. A fear comes up. Write it down. What are you afraid of? You're afraid of people. You're afraid of speaking. Right? As I mentioned, all these fears. Start documenting your fears. Who are you? Who is this person? >> And if you're living with all of these fears, then this is who you are, >> right? So you make a list. Step number five is you speak to someone about this. So one is a list in your own room. That's one >> thing. Step five, it's one step. But step five, it says admitted to God, to another human being. No, God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs. >> So not only do we write it down on a piece of paper and the steps actually gives you lists to fill out. It lists your resentments. Who you angry at? What did they do? What did it affect? How did you get them back? Right? List it out very clearly. And then at the end you should have, oh wow, I keep coming up against the same thing. Someone messes with my money, I lose my mind. Okay, so maybe you have greed. Maybe you're suffering with greed, right? Or maybe there's something else, right? If there are certain things that keep hitting you. I'm upset at this guy for embarrassing me, this guy for embarrassing me, this girl for embarrass. >> Okay, what's going on? Like you said with the codependent >> Yeah. >> in our discussion, you're upset at this person you dated, >> they abuse you. the next person narcissistic abuse of third at some point in time turn around and look inward >> and say what am I doing? >> So step four is writing that out. Step five is speaking. >> Okay. So now that we have all of this stuff we have the beautiful foundation >> are done. >> We know the list. We know our problems. So now anything that we're keeping around we get some sort of benefit. Like you said with the um narcissistic uh with the codependent you're getting some validation right and these short hits of validation. you're getting drama. There's all sorts of, you know, you get lost in a whole world, someone else's world. It's a beautiful space to be. There are benefits. >> Step six is we're entirely ready to have God remove this defects of character is God, I am ready to take all those benefits that I'm getting, give it back, and find a different way of living. I think to me that is the >> the hardest. I'll give you an example to make it real. I was interviewing a guy once and we're talking about plant medicines and anxiety and all sorts of things. And if you ask the average person, you want to live with anxiety that no, of course not. No one wants to. >> This guy told me he does want to. He said like this, I don't believe I would be successful if not for my anxiety. I don't believe I'll make money if I'm not paranoid. >> Right? >> Basically, >> this is his drive. >> This is it. So he says, "My drive comes from this." So now in that moment that guy realizes anxiety. He sees the problem with his anxiety. He sees how it's robbing from him. But it's giving him something. >> Right. >> At the end of the day, he looks at his paycheck and he believes his paycheck. >> Anxiety made it happen. >> Exactly. So now you ask him, are you willing to give up your anxiety and everything that's attached to it? And I can't guarantee you that your paycheck is not attached to it. >> I can't guarantee it. There are many people who are fighting for their paycheck because of the anxiety. So, are you ready to let go of the anxiety knowing that it may take your paycheck with you but believing but believing that there's Hashem and Hashem wants good for us, right? Because remember when we said step three, we said made a decision to turn our will in our lives over to the care of God as we understood God. So, we say Hashem cares about us, right? >> Hashem wants and if this money either the money is not so good, >> right? I don't need the anxiety. I don't need the money. Or God will find another way to get you the money >> without the anxiety. So step number six is a decision. Like you kept saying about the >> say is making a decision. He's making a decision. Make a decision. It's it's an actual decision. You're faced. You see everything in front of you. >> You see your problems. You see the benefits you're getting from your problems. >> Are you willing to let it go? >> Right. So that that's that's amazing. That's amazing stuff. And you feel that uh the 12step program is what saved your life >> from anxiety? Yeah, >> anxiety specifically. I was still left with a lot of anxiety through 12 steps. I was sober and plant medicine's helped me with >> You're very much into this um the psychedelics, this type of things. >> I'm very much into I' I've benefited a lot. >> Yeah. >> From it >> because it's a whole big debate if this is uh in or out. You know, it's a I mean, not in your world, right? >> I mean, I hear it. I I hear the perspectives perspective from other people, but you've seen tremendous uh >> for myself in my life >> for yourself or for other people. I mean, you're involved with miracles groups. I've seen straight miracles. Straight >> miracles. Now, what does it do? Uh some people are saying that um you find more God. You know what I mean? You is that what you that was your experience also? Did you get closer to Hashem with the psychedelics? >> Yes. Yes. I would say >> yeah. >> Yes. So I'll share I'll share where I was before. So through the 12 steps what I learned which was amazing to find you know Abraham toki someone asked him why you sending people the 12 steps we have this of everything. What do you do? >> He was a big proponent of the 12 steps >> right you know what he answered >> what he said >> he said it's not about the 12 steps. He said, "If there's a room of people who read, you find me a room of people who read Muser like their life depends on it, I'll send them there." >> Right? >> He said, "The 12 steps out, a room of people who read this book, Alcoholics Anonymous, like their life depends on it." And it's true. I read I I read this like my life depended on it. Not because of me, because I went to a room of people. I didn't feel like I had many outs at that point. There were things I saw in my life >> that I knew I'm never going to have the life I want if I if I don't kick this addiction, >> if you don't chase. So, that's it. pain was stronger. There was a certain pain that you wanted to get rid of that made you take 12step program. >> And when I walked in there, I saw, you know what attracted me? People laughing. I go to these meetings. What do you think these people are doing? >> Yeah. >> You'd think you're going to walk in there and everyone's, you think a room full of sex addicts, they can be talking about this, laughing like, what's what what the hell is going on here? Right. >> These people, they're happy, they're friendly, they're excited. And then I started asking them questions about their life. A lot of their lives were in shambles. A lot of their life were in disarray. A lot of their lives were now getting better. All sorts of things. But I saw happy people. I saw connected people. >> And a lot of what I saw were people who it was just a different relationship with God. It wasn't the religion. It wasn't the superstition. It wasn't >> any of that. God cares about me. God loves me. I trust him. They spoke to him. And that's what they that's what they taught us. They taught us a personal relationship with a higher power. Mhm. >> What plant medicine changed is that when I stopped recovery around COVID for practical reasons, it just meetings meeting stopped just very difficult. >> So this affected a lot of people this this the co people needed used to this was a lifeline for these people. >> I used to live in South Beach. I was living in Hollywood. I started going to meetings so often in South Beach that I bought a house two blocks away from >> South Beach >> from the meetings. And to me, this was where I was going to live. This is my place. It's like my sh I'm there. >> It's your life. It's >> And then co came and the place shut down. >> Meeting a few of us were meeting on park benches and Lincoln Road, you know, social distancing and it in some ways I was like, "Wow, this thing that they told me was so rock solid. Suddenly a virus comes and we're all running like we need this like our life depends on it. What are we running from?" So in any case at a little before that I had had a couple plant medicine experiences. So I went further into that world and what it cleared up for me was I had a lot of religious um I don't like baggage around religion. >> So to me there was a God that I connected with through the 12 steps and that was separate and apart >> from the >> from the Jewish God. And really through plant medicines I was able to see that they're not it's not separate. It's one and the same. They're talking about the same thing and >> like so a lot of that has come has come forward. And also >> 12 steps is beautiful but it doesn't give you experiences like that. like there were experiences I had which on medicines >> at the same point in time I don't think that I would have had the benefits from plant medicines had I not had >> all I had the language I had the the a model for working on oneself >> a lot of work went in way before you do the plant medicine >> yeah I'm very grateful that I that I had that going into it so suddenly I have an experience and it's like okay so there's this awareness so there's a there's a problem I see that I'm getting a benefit from oh I've done this I've done a step six before this I'm going to have to make right to this is this process >> there were things that >> helped a lot and you know one of the first people I introduced to plant medicines I told him I'll I'll bring you but promise me you get a therapist like promise I haven't been as adamant about those things today but I hope people do I hope people who are entering this world understand it's it needs a lot of support and structure around it >> it's not a recreation ational thing, right? Is that what you're saying? >> It's not recreational. The one component of the work is done there, >> right? >> But there's the whole other parts of the work >> that are done. >> Is it addictive? I mean, I've I've I heard from people that they started once, now they're doing every week. Like, is is that is that a thing or supposedly it's not an addictive? >> So, here's the challenge with it is that a lot of things ended up under the umbrella of the same thing. So when people say psychedelics and we don't know what they're talking about, are they talking about ketamine? Are they talking about MDMA? Are they talking about Iwasa? Are they talking about mushrooms? They're talking about peyote. >> So what I found with the more natural ones, Iwasa, peyote, mushrooms, >> that done in intentional settings, I haven't like the experiences are so variable. Where am I going to go? What's going to happen? How long am I going to be there? Even if you have a clock on the time and you say, "I know it enters my stomach. It takes 45 minutes to hit. It takes five hours >> to to process through and then I won't feel it anymore." But the experience can make it feel like 5 years. >> Wow. >> I know one guy he told me he took Iwasa. He got pulled into his wife's experience of being married to him for 10 years. >> Wow. >> For 10 years he saw himself through his wife's eyes. >> He wanted to kill himself. It didn't feel like 5 hours, 6 hours. So when someone has that experience like is that addictive >> or he wants to go back there like uh what do you like when you say what how many times a year is this recommended? What I found typically is at first people become almost like people who get into it become almost obsessed at first because it's just like wow what is this thing you know I couldn't get enough at the uh like what is this what what's that taking thing and it shows me stuff that I couldn't have wor like arrived at myself for years and can become almost obsessive or addictive and then >> it loosens over time where today >> the thought of doing it is what I say today is like please hashem like I want to work it out in this like here. I want to work it out here, >> right? >> I don't want to work it out in plant medicine. It's very very very it's a rough place. >> That's very powerful what you're saying right now. You're saying that you would want to make your own your own inner work. >> I'm not saying because I want it to be my own inner work. I'm saying that things in plant medicine it's a very confronting way to deal with stuff, >> right? >> It's on its time table. If you want to take a 10-minute break, like we took a break between us, there's nowhere to go. What break? you took the medicine to it and that's it. >> I think that when it wears off, it wears off. You're in, you're in. So today I say I hope I can work it out outside of medicine >> and if for whatever reason I'm unable to then >> there is some place to go. >> Then I'll go there. >> I know a lot of people talk about it. They say people are going every weekend and this what's the guy's name? What's the guy's number? I want to talk to him. I don't know too many people who've gotten sucked into that for very very long periods of time. >> Mhm. >> I've seen people who are very who I was worried about. Well, that's the exception. Some people go in, they get into it from like a work perspective. So they start helping out, they start service. So someone who goes into work, you know, it's like if I told you you talk about narcissism too much, okay, it's your job >> at this point. It's >> so obviously it's a little bit different. >> But people doing it for themselves, >> I I think it's too hard. I don't know and I don't have an example of someone and all the many people I know who've done it who, let's say, has been going and saying every weekend for 5 years they're going to. I've seen guys who for 3 months can't get enough and either people next to them or people or themselves in medicine will say like stop playing this is not the place to play. >> Don't play >> don't play here. >> It's interesting stuff. So the podcast um in search for more was developed also after co >> my first episode was like two weeks after the lockdowns >> and and uh what made you do this? I mean again you you have a journey that you shared and it turned your inside out that you want to do something more you you when you say in search for more is you searching for more all the time that's that's that's in your DNA >> you know what I what I found when I was thinking of the name so first when we started we're just doing online webinars during co >> right and you were talking about >> first addiction I was interviewing different people >> right >> let's do one on addiction let's talk about process of recovery, put it out there almost a message. I called it let go and let God. My first my first thing let go and let God. And I spoke about that that here we brought a panel together. I was doing with panels more >> of people who were experts in addiction or had experience or spoke about it >> and said I think I think addicts have a message to share with the world. We've been asked to let go and let God when we came into recovery, right? >> And now every single human being >> everyone needs the 12step program. Doesn't matter if he's an addict or not. by co I feel like everyone did I mean if we you know there different co has different associations for us many of us think about the silly lockdowns or the masks or some stuff that maybe we didn't buy into but March of 2020 this was very very very real >> yeah for sure >> we were home we were scared we didn't go anywhere >> terrible >> even in Miami >> Miami didn't open up for 6 months >> a lot of people knew people sick a lot of people knew people who died we didn't know what was happen to our jobs to our money very very scary and people were freaking out. >> Yeah. >> And I said, "Hey, like these addicts like we're here. We should be speaking. We're they said anonymous, be in the corner, be hidden. We should be speaking. We've gone through this. We can help everyone. Let's get out there and let's start speaking." >> Then eventually it became after I started speaking more and more. It became in search of more. >> And I actually slowed down on the podcast last >> on this on the in search for more. >> Yeah. I was releasing one once a week. >> I do that now. I did it for five years. >> Wow. >> And in the last month, I think I released one. And right now, I'm going to if the conversation's interesting, I'll put it out there. But I'm not doing the >> You're not You're not like every week. >> Not anymore. >> It was too hard. Was it, you know, it is not easy, you know, to run after guest and book them and make sure that uh everything. So, >> I don't want to say it was too hard. I did it for years. >> Yeah. It's been patterns that I've gone through where I >> I feel like I have something to share and then I want to share it and then I don't. >> Right. >> Right. So I I speak so I can get the energy out. And then I heard >> I once said this and I thought I was saying like kind of as a joke tongue and cheek was something I saw if express doesn't express here it wants to express you know in a different way. And I heard of breast obsesses. Exactly. >> Wow. >> Like if there's something we want to speak or write or express if we don't it makes it harder form. >> Yeah. Interesting stuff. Now um and then the s the house of Moore happened. >> Yes. >> Now what is your vision for the house of Moore? >> The house of war is essentially a community center. That's what it is. >> Okay. >> So it's a community center. Um my vision is beyond what it is and I don't quite know what it is. I don't I can't I can't say I have a full picture because I see it forming under my own eyes in ways that I didn't fully anticipate. >> It was very clear to me. some of it on plant medicine. I had that house. I bought it as a financial investment and on plant medicine kept use this like use this for service. Use this for >> not for business. Just do give back something. Do do something for for the community. >> Yes. Make a spiritual investment. I didn't know what to do. It felt like a big burden. How am I going to keep the house busy? Like >> fine. So I'll put the house. But that's one element. >> Has to run it. Yeah. And they has to keep this of course. And um eventually I did and we started just doing different events and then we did a um uh we adama we did mayor K and I >> right >> we did a men's retreat and once I used it in that way I said this is what the house is for like it's clear this is what the house is for so we just said you know what >> we're going to use the house for adama let's say once every 3 months and others are welcome to use it as well >> and slowly it's been forming then when I moved here to this community which is a few blocks from the house of Moore there were No obvious Jews here. >> No, this is gorgeous over here in this neighborhood, >> right? It's a place >> farms. >> Yeah, it's a place like ranches outside Miami. There was space. >> Miami was getting filled up during co and I said it doesn't make any sense. Let's find a >> Yeah, let's find let's just go breed someplace. >> Let's find another place. But also, I was in a different space religiously then. >> And slowly a friend moved out here. when he moved out he said you know we need a shul I said listen the house of more is there you want to make a shul I'll give you the space >> so we made a shul together and slowly like things are forming and obviously that changed the whole dynamic having a shul there now a community and in a few years I'm sure this will be a full-fledged Jewish community >> yeah it looks like it looks like it's going in that direction so so what you're saying is that um besides business and besides what you're doing and everything you need that you need that giving back. You have that in you that uh like you said the house of more. You want to give back. You you this fulfills you somehow. >> Yes. I should say about the house of more that I think every community needs one. A house that's dedicated for healing work and for these kind of groups. It's it's popping up all over within the Jewish community. There's >> great demand for it. >> Is a space dedicated in every single Jewish community. I think it belongs. Whether it'll be under the house of more or inspired by this or just will happen. That's what I see as a vision for myself. Um yes, the reason why I named it in search of more is because I found that I have I have interest in a lot of different domains. So when I got into business, I saw a lot of my friends were just doubling down in business, doubling down, doubling down and I was like, okay, it's nice. I like it. >> It's a beautiful thing, but >> what about all these other areas of life and whether I got into personal development or different aspects of it? So I have this >> curious, >> right? like a curious part to my personality and I see how that kind of keeps evolving. So I called the title what felt true to me was in search of more. In search of more like someone once told me I took it as a compliment. He said that I'm one of the least complacent people he's met. And the way I understood it was not >> many people are not complacent in one area of life. Like they said let's say fitness and they become obsessed with fitness. Let's say money they become obsessed with money. And for whatever reason, I've had interest in >> a lot of things >> in multiple areas, whether it's I I I run a business and then I'll leave at six o'clock and I'll be at a DA running a retreat. I don't know too many people who do this, but >> Right. >> I like doing both, >> right? >> And which one do I like more? I like both. I wouldn't only want to do business. Someone would only want to do retreats, >> right? >> I like both. >> It's it's a beautiful thing what you're doing. I mean, it's uh to help people. I mean it it gives you a certain but does it does it have to do about finding God like you know you were saying that there was a time that you were not in the space where you are right now >> you see God in your business do you see God in your life I mean you're very much connected now like spiritually >> so when you use the word spiritually I want >> like you talk to Hashem where you incorporate very much in the business your in the house and everything has to do with uh >> with spiritual uality. >> My my com my company name I put in it was J EG for my partner for myself and G God. >> Wow. >> But that was early on 20 years ago. So um but then was probably more superstitious than anything. >> Right. >> No, today I feel a close relationship >> very much connected. >> I to me a very much a part of my life. I make decisions I trust. I you know. >> Right. Right. >> Really since plant medicine like those aspects opened it to a different level. I already had a lot like a personal relationship, but I still had a lot of anxiety for some reason and I couldn't get rid of it. And plant medicines, I felt like it dealt with >> things that were not of this world. >> I feel like that was helping me is uh a lot of his botheredness, you know, talking to Hashem. Yeah. This comes also from >> Yeah. >> But uh this talking to Hashem every day >> and uh there's a system how they do it. There's a three-part system how you talk to. You're going to love this one. um you find the secluded place, you know, uh I have one in my place and uh you just there's a three-step process is the way he describes it. First, you get into gratitude right off the bat. Before, let's put everything to the side. Gratitude. You have a set of eyes, your ears, you you can talk, you can smell, uh you can drive, you have gas in the car. you get into this, you can go nuts because your brain, your is telling your feet when to stop. There's ambulance, police, everything is there for you. You're looking around and you're like, "Oh my god, I can't believe it." Like, I don't I'm not owed anything. And everything is made for me so perfectly. And you thank God for your kids and you thank God for the business. You thank God whatever you got up in the morning. You like what you see in the mirror. It doesn't matter. The gratitude is like when you get into it really and move my fingers. That's one. So that puts you into a uh an idea of first you're like you you whatever is happening that day is like the gratitude is beyond beyond >> it doesn't mix well with fear with judgment with >> no no right. So you're like, well, if I'm if I if I don't if I'm not owed anything and this is all gifts and you're tremendously you first get into a good mood. But just throw anything out, whatever you whatever you see, whatever you are. I had a good sandwich today. I have a store that can buy coffee. Everything and everything is made for you. There's people standing behind the counter and they're working and they got up in the morning and the system and the banks and the money. You you can go nuts when you want to get into gratitude like that. And the second step is acha some sort of a chuva which means like not depressing not upset but me just try to be better than yesterday. Maybe I had a slip up here and there but at least you know not going to say I'm the best I'm not I want to become better. It's very simple. It's just I hope you know to become let me make this day better than yesterday. And whatever you did if you really know that you did something like we're not supposed to whatever you did. So, you regret it. It's okay. You talk to the you talk to Hashem. And the third one is the real thing that you start asking for stuff. But you don't ask for a second home. You don't ask for money and you don't ask for a yah. You don't ask for those things. What you ask for is a help me believe in you. Help me understand that whatever is going on in my life is good for me. Make your will make my will should be your will. That's it. Because when you have that, you already have everything. So it didn't so it didn't go the way you wanted today, >> right? >> It must have been. This is the way it's supposed to be. Let me be count. This is three step process every day. >> This could take 45 minutes because you take a walk and then come back. It's like for 45 minutes and then you talk in your own language and you talk about your own problems. So let's see if you have certain gratitudes that's for you personally has nothing to do with a different person wouldn't have gratitude for this you say it and the same is is is is with the cha and the same is the same is my desire your desire we want see what happens is that you build this relationship with the like with serious relationship it's not a joke we meet every day we have a business meeting every day so before you even go to work before you even do anything before you explode you get this out of the and you make sales over there. That's where the business is. You talk and you say, "Let me not become angry. Let me not have anxiety. Let me not be upset. I want to be aligned with you. We are we are we understand each other. You put that away and then then you start your day." And it's unbelievable. Unbelievable. This is without >> How long have you been doing it? >> For years. >> Yeah. And I love it. And when I don't do it because I have to run or whatever, I feel I'm missing something >> right. >> It's not it doesn't do it. So that means every time before I do my podcast, I also ask that everyone should learn make it work for me. Make the right words come out. Make it you understand. I don't move without without Hashem. Just don't move. Don't move. And if I go and I come and I came back and I drove and I flew and I and everything worked out. I'm like it's not like what's normal? You jump on a plane, you come down, you No, no, no. Nothing is normal. Nothing is normal. I don't take anything for granted. So I sit and I live with this like my life with dependent on it. And you know what? That builds my self-esteem. As far as we're talking about codependency, I don't need anybody. Like I love people, but I'm never lonely. Not lonely. I have the my best friend. I have the with me and I have gratitude and I'm happy what I have and I surrender and if it doesn't if it's not supposed to go, it's not supposed to go. I I since I incorporated this in my life, I don't have anxiety anymore. I'm the happiest person. Not because my bank is full. At this point in time, with this mentality in my head, with this process, I have um I am probably the happiest time in my life since I ever remember myself because whenever something is happening that I don't like, I always end up bringing it back. And you say, I can't control the world anyway. I don't like it. I get nervous in the beginning if I don't if I see that. But I grab myself and I'm like go back straight to that thing and I felt that this is helping me a lot. >> Beautiful. >> Yeah. So I'm connected to uh you know got fence there. >> Yes. >> I'm a big fan you know big big fan >> and I learned a lot from him his style you know of uh you know this is a train you want to come on it or not you know what I mean? He's moving but his this is his way and he's seen tremendous success from it you know he's also he's a big proponent of talking you know have this he doesn't start his day without talking to to Hashem >> and uh yeah and I took this on and it works it works it's not it's not keeping score it's not checking the bank if it works you see if someone I had this guy with a meeting today someone was saying I talked to Hashem I beg Hashem I cry to Hashem doesn't answer. So I'm like, you're crying, you're talking, you don't even know what you're doing. You don't have a relationship. It's not like you're begging for the wrong things. You know, Monday you want something, Tuesday, you want something else, and Wednesday you're asking where is it doesn't work like that. It's not what you're asking. You your mind is telling you that this is good for you, that's good for you, whatever. to ask for for perception a little bit from we say it in the most important without you got so you ask give me part of you in my download perception from you in me let me just make decisions doesn't matter the results it doesn't matter I don't keep a card and like I don't even know I don't have the date when I started it and I am happy I don't have the date because I don't I want to keep a I don't want to have date. I I'm talking to Hashem for for that long and I I want to see results. Let me check in at the bank. I'm not checking anything. I am done. When I'm finished talking, >> I forget about it. I get out of the way. You know, you you don't stay there and you're like, I spoke to you today. I spoke to you yesterday. I spoke. That's not a relationship. You have a relationship. You're grateful and things go. That's that's the way I I never took plant medicine and uh you know it's not my it's not my thing. I try to to grind through the thing on my own like you said. That's what I like so much. I tried to do it on my own. >> Oh, I wasn't saying to grind through my own. >> No, no, no. I'm just saying that >> what I'm say right. What I was saying is I'll I'll do plant medicines and I'll do plant medicines cuz >> Yeah. This is what you need and then you feel >> No. So, every once in a while I feel like it gives me a good X-ray. >> Like I can think um uh >> right >> one of my most powerful experiences, two of my most powerful experiences I can think of, but I'll bring one specific. A family member asked me um to be there with them. So, they're doing it. Do I mind? So, I flew out there, >> right? >> I went my family member and I was saying like, "Okay, what medicine are they doing? It's lighter medicines than I've done. It's not going to be I'm here for them. I'm here for them. >> I got rad over the coals. >> Raed over the coals. I was like for 12 15 hours I'm doing everything I could to throw up. It was the most humbling night of my life. I I saw things like wouldn't believe like just things whatever it just >> Yeah. >> It was showing me like problems in my personality. I didn't expect to see like rad over the coals for 12 to 15 hours. >> And even the next day I couldn't like the next day I couldn't function. And for weeks I was like wow like how did I miss that? I was like hiding in plain sight like these aspects of my >> personality that are not helpful that are hurting people next to me and like anyway um I don't know if I'll continue this forever but there's a certain x-ray that it gives. It's like okay we think we're okay we think everything is good and every once in a while we just need check let's get let's get an independent let's get a third a third party analysis so you know it's just like a person doesn't free doesn't free themselves >> right >> you know so >> there is there is that what I was saying from a different perspective is that some people say like oh plant medicine is a shortcut and it's easy and maybe there are maybe there are listen MDMA is a very addictive substance that a lot of people party with ketamine is a very addictive substance LSD is a very addictive substance. So, I haven't worked a ton with those medicines as medicines. >> Yeah. >> And I imagine being that they're actually used as drugs that they have that >> potential to to be misused. >> But for the ones the more natural ones, Iasas, like I said, peyote, the these mushrooms, especially at high doses, these are not easy experiences. So, it's not a shortcut. I would much rather work out in a therapy session. That's what I'm saying. I would much rather it would be >> it's it's a lot of work is what you're saying. It takes a toll on you, you know. >> It's confronting. >> Yeah. >> It's confronting. >> Yeah. >> You know, it's like I don't know. Like I grew up kabad so people talk like, "Oh, just go to the Reb." I Who wants to go? Who wants to go? What a scary thing. You can sit in front of the guy. If you consider me your reb can send you to Zimbabwe. Yeah. >> Say, "You're not here. You're there." And if you take him seriously as your rabbi, are you rushing to go? >> Right. >> Yeah. >> Running. It's like, "Oh, I have a question about business." You know, when I was younger, I used to think that, "Oh, you have a question about business. You can go to the Reb." Like that's where they spoke. Should I buy this building? Should I not buy this building? I have this problem. Can you help me? >> No. You may walk in front of the guy and he'll tell your whole life you're living wrong. And if he's going to be a Reb, if you're going to have that relationship, >> then it's a very scary thing to go. So I don't know. I I've never gone to I've never had that. >> Not as an adult, right? I've never had that. But the closest religious experience that I know of, the way it was described, the way I hear people talk about it that I can compare to plant medicine is >> wow. >> That's the only way I >> Wow. >> Like my own experiences of it. You're going in, you're getting naked, and you may find out things. >> Now, some people don't have a relationship with it where they're going to change anything. So, they'll go in and they'll >> right there just they go in, they go out. But what you're saying is if there's a real connection and a real belief then it's it's a similar to that. >> Some people have called me they say I saw certain things on plant medicines. Should I believe it? >> So my question is why'd you do it? Cuz these are not easy experiences. Right? >> So that's a question you should have asked >> before you did it. >> Before you did it, you know, >> my accountant gave me advice. Should I give it? That's the question you should have asked before you made made him your accountant, >> right? right? >> Does he have good quality advice for me? Yes or no? Like why are you asking the question after the fact? So, it's kind of the same. >> It's it's kind of the same thing. I took the approach if it has a message then it wants me to uh >> to to pay attention. So are you saying um from your point of view that whatever you went through and you were vocal, you were very vocal about it, you know, your abuse or whatever it was. Um that can you say thank you? Not the word thank you. It's very but did it make you who you are today? When you look back and you're saying to yourself, after all, this is Ellie Nesh became Ellie Nash where you are today and you're a work in progress. We always want to become better, but from the journey that you have. >> So, so first of all, I'd say I have certain things that are kicking my butt right now. Right. >> Right. So, in business and in marriage and >> right >> kids etc. So, >> to say it about things like right now I'm in some of those questions for sure. As far as the past, I'll tell you one of my first plant medicine experiences which eliminated a massive amount of anxiety. >> No, very massive amount. >> And you know it says by ma that the Jews saw the sounds and they heard >> Yeah. >> Right. They heard the sights. Something like this. Saw the sounds and heard the sights. Never understood what this meant on plant medicine. I understood what it meant. >> Wow. >> Okay. I'll tell you what I think what I think it meant. >> What did you see? >> So what what do we say when we say seeing something, right? We say see. We believe what we see, >> right? >> So I see this. >> You believe >> Mike, I see you. I believe you. I believe this. >> Okay. What happens on plant medicine often times? Many people go to the space that that realm feels so real. >> The spirituality and like the >> whatever we're experiencing there and this world feels distant, foreign. Maybe it's real, maybe it's a dream. >> One of the scariest places myself and I know many others have been to in plant medicine is that the whole world that we're experiencing is not real. It's all like created in our mind. It's a figment of our imagination. It's a dream. It's an illusion. >> Okay. So, what does that mean? But that doesn't feel like an illusion. When we're there, whatever we feel like, whatever experience having feels real, >> right? But you also know that there is a world which is like an illusion. >> It this Okay. So >> by matra, right? What my understanding of it is based on this >> is that by matar the Jews had an experience where God spirituality those realms which is things they normally heard about suddenly they saw this is real >> and then the physical world which they normally saw they were hearing about the physical world maybe it's real maybe it's a dream I don't know >> so you're saying it was like a a psychedelic experience over there >> I believe so yeah that was my that's that's my understanding of what that means I saw the sites and that >> that and in many ways this is true. Like one of the things people say are we human are we spiritual beings have a human having a human experience or a human being having a spiritual experience like what's the main thing and what's the secondary okay so I'm laying the groundwork >> for regardless of whether it's true or not an experience someone has in plant medicine feels not like as real as this conversation feels more real than this conversation okay so it may be wrong I'm saying I'm not >> but for the person who has it feels >> more real than this conversation like I'm more sure of the experience I'm about to tell Then this conversation happened that's in my mind. >> So I had an experience where I'm a soul pre-birth. Okay? I'm a soul pre-birth. >> And in there I'm excitedly speaking to other souls about this journey we're going to go on. >> And it was clear there wasn't time in this place. I say you'll be my mother. You'll be my father. You'll be the person who abuses me. >> You saw these things. >> This is what we're saying. This is the experience I was. I wasn't a person. I wasn't a person with a name. I was a soul. >> It was before you came into the world. >> Yes. I was a soul. on the spirits and on the soul. I'm excitedly telling others >> your life, >> my life and what we're going to do and we're going to do this and you'll be the person who abuses me and you'll be the girl who grace my heart and you'll be the guy who I'll lose money to and you'll be the my sibling and you'll be whatever. I don't remember all of it but I just remember everything was with excitement. That's all I remember. Everything was with excitement. >> Fine. So, I had this experience and what I was left with afterwards was everything I'm experiencing I chose and I forgot. I chose this before, right? I chose this before. I was excited about it. It was a challenge I was going through. I was thrilled to say, "You're going to be the guy who abuses me and I'll go through that challenge, >> that experience." >> Fast forward a few months. I'm doing a podcast with um Y Jacobson. >> Mhm. >> And I don't know where he says. I didn't know about this teaching before. He says, I still remember it says that every soul before it enters the world is shown it challenges. choose and do not choose. >> So what I'll say is this is with this new perspective that this experience gave me there are certain experiences like the abuse and others which I've reconciled with 100%. There are others that I have not but I believe that it's possible to >> and I believe that my work is that I won't have any of these doubts or wise around different experiences in my life and anywhere there are >> is work for me to do. >> Yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing stuff what you're saying. It's amazing stuff what you're doing. Um you're one person. You see, you never underestimate uh what a person can do. So what I what I can tell you is uh thank you. Um, you know what you're doing is you took an experience that you had in life and you you used your dber, you used your mouth, you spoke about it very brave and it probably made a tremendous impact on people who suffer the same and um you showed that you know what something is even if something is happening and you go through in your life a very hard thing you embrace it. You could have taken another route and you took the route of uh coming out and talking about it and bringing awareness. You're referring to the abuse >> to the abuse and then what you did later you know and then this uh this house of more that you're doing strictly coming from a place of you know what >> I just want to help people I just want people to come together because even I met a person today who's broke into pieces coming in over there and he says this place is like his uh he comes over there he sits over there spills everything out tries to get uh you know comfort for it and everybody's validating him. I don't know if there's a price for that. This is the most, you know, gorgeous thing, the most the most beautiful thing that one person can do for another person. If the bunch of them uh benched you that you can you can afford, you know, you can you took a house and you said, you know what, I can make business out of it. You decided, I want this to be a spiritual uh thing for other people. What else are we living for? That's called living. That's life. That's that that's what we uh consuming money and consuming things and fun and everything. It's all nice and dandy, but this is something that is you you make a difference in other people's lives. >> So, may >> I should say that I did also take the path of uh numbing the pain and escaping at one point in time. >> I did. I definitely did. >> So, so because life is painful and that's what we discussed there is a but but you got out of it somehow. You had some kind of I don't know how to call it whether blessed you. >> He found me and dragged me out. >> He dragged you out and and you're doing not you are do you have a >> I should say even >> this is your >> in terms of 100% like I feel when I go to the Reb when I speak to him when I learn his stuff >> I feel I feel proud. >> Yeah. >> The look not the look anything else. No, no, it's your is what you're doing is this is this is coming from a higher place. There's no two ways about it. And you're a voice. You're a voice for people who now we were talking about narcissism and codependency. A person who was an abuser, you know, um he chose he made a he made a choice to to do something evil. So of course you can tell every abuser a child molester who is incarcerated that uh he can change you know we we would love for him to change but he chose neb to make a you know to wreck havoc on the world >> right so just to explain where I was coming from there cuz in our conversation push back is that a child abuser first of all who are we talking about we're talking about a child abuser an adult abusing a child >> correct >> right so I give you in my case. I was abused by a teenager, >> right? >> And there's two parts to that. As far as my experience as a kid, no difference if I was abused by a 15-year-old or a 50-y old, >> right? How old were you? I mean, >> I was eight, right? >> So, for you, it doesn't make, you know, >> no difference. No difference, >> right? You tell someone who shot in Israel, it was an 11-year-old who pulled the trigger on the rocket. No difference. But as far as the 15year-old is concerned, >> it could be he's a different person >> 10, 15, 20 years later. If he was 50, then probably he did it before, I'll do it after. >> Right? So that's one. If you're talking in general about adult abusing a child, >> number two, that's very clear. Someone calls you and says, >> "Joe, this guy's a child abuser." How do you know? Because he abused a child. Correct. Okay. Joe, this guy's a narcissist. How do you know? It's vague. And that was where >> Right. No, no, no. I understand. And I like it because we got we got some clarity. But I'm just saying there is the created this world with a choice. Gave you a choice. I always say Hitler made a choice to be evil. His genius could have built instead of destroying the world, he could have built the world with the same genius. But he chose this way. >> Right. >> Right. So the person took a choice. So you have something to be proud of because you took something and you're trying to make this world a better place. So I want to thank you and on behalf of everybody who is crying in your house or sharing in your house. Uh you're doing God's work and should bless you >> that you should be able to continue >> and have clarity and have lots of money to to feed this thing >> and uh lots of success >> on everything in your life. >> Thank you. appreciate you coming out to the house, coming out to the podcast, bringing me on your podcast and everything is beautiful. It's a It is a honor for me to meet you. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. [Music]