The struggle Podcast EP5 Rabbi Manis Fridman - Relationships

Dating has to be the most selfish thing you ever do. How long does it take to fall in love? Existing in this world is frustrating, embarrassing, and maybe even depressing. If you think marriage is going to make you into a mensch, if you think marriage is going to make you happy, it's a disaster. If you think marriage is going to help you achieve your goals, don't use marriage for your benefit. I love everything about my wife. I said, "That's very interesting, cuz your wife wants a divorce." Now, after a cheating situation, is there place for forgiveness? Okay. Uh we have here a special guest who needs no introduction. This is Rabbi Manis Friedman. Yes. He's a famous mashpia. He is a a shliach and a world influencer. Of course, what we want to do is we want to discuss life. We want to discuss relationships, marriage. But what I want to do before I even start is I want to go to the foundation. To the foundation, to the bottom of the bottom, how we before we get into this whole to this whole conversation. I have a ton of questions. You wrote a book once. Um it's called I didn't ask to come to this world. Right? I didn't ask to come to this world. My question to you is a person is born into this world, finally came into this world. What is his purpose? How should a person look at the world as soon as he comes into the world? In one word. His first reaction is, "What a mess." Well, first of all, if we're looking for a purpose, it means something is wrong. Why do you need a purpose? Because it doesn't feel good enough. Well, it's not good enough. Right. Obviously, it's not good enough. Right. Existing in this world is frustrating, embarrassing, and maybe even depressing. There's something about the human being. If I don't have a purpose, not only am I bored, I can't stand it. To exist without a purpose is is intolerable. It drives people to suicide. Why? So, when you ask, "What is the purpose of life?" you're already assuming that there is a creator who knows what he's doing. Because what purpose do you mean? Why do you think there's a purpose? And if there is a purpose, where is it coming from? I can't make up a purpose. I can't build a car and then think, "What is its purpose?" Right. The purpose comes before Right. The purpose comes from the creator. Before the creation. Right. So, either there is a creator and he has a purpose Correct. or there is no purpose. You can't just decide one day, "My purpose is to be a doctor." So, what you're saying is when a person is born into this world and he starts to have a little bit dots and a little bit cycles, he starts to look around and he starts to see what this world is all about. He can't just exist. There is a purpose and there's a reason. You came down there, decided that I'm going to take a highly I'm going to take a piece of myself and I'm going to send down this neshama, this gift to the world to a set of parents, and now the job begins. I have a job. So, instinctively, we feel that there's a purpose, but we don't know what it is. And we are searching for it. Yeah. So, where does one start? Oh. It started at Moshe Rabbeinu, Avraham Avinu, Adam, how far back you want to go? Right. So, so so so the the purpose is the shvutam, right? Iladovka boy. That's the whole purpose on of of of the creation of being here, to connect and to understand that the shvutam wants a human being to fight his own desires and and be cling to Hashem. Is that the word? Yes, that's correct. The purpose Yeah, it can be very confusing. What is my purpose in life? My purpose? I don't have a purpose. The human itself doesn't have a purpose. What is the purpose for which I was created? Not my purpose. Correct. So, the question is What is What is the purpose? What is the purpose? That is the question. And that's a big That's a big point. That's an important It's very important because this is the foundation before we even start talking about growing up, before we start about dating, before marriage. We we when we all the conversation that is happening about marriage is already in the middle. Yeah. The first you have to know before you start going up, before you start having relationships with other people, you have to understand what are you doing here. What is your job? Before you make other people miserable. Yeah. You have to first understand misery. You understand what are you doing over here. Yeah. So, that that idea, that clarity of understanding that the shvutam wants something from you, and if you understand it, if you search for it, and if you understand it, you will live in Gan Eden. Is that what it is? In this world. More than Gan Eden. What is it Gan Eden? In Gan Eden, you can't fulfill the purpose. It's a different level. It's the sachar. Right. It's It's already the You're retired. So, that's why we are shutfim with Hakadosh Baruchu b'maaseh Bereishis. How are we shutfim? How are we partners with God in creation? Well, because he has a purpose, and the only way that purpose can be fulfilled is if we Through us. do what we And that's why Avodas Hashem means do something for him. Right. I asked all of the big talmidei chachamim, "How are you Avodas Hashem if all you're doing is making your life better?" Right. You're busy focusing on yourself. You want to become a mushlam, you want to become perfect. Even learning and even doing mitzvahs and if you're doing it for yourself, Yeah. then you're you're missing the whole purpose. How is that How is that Avodas Hashem? It's amazing stuff. Now, So, one one kolel man was arguing with me. He says, "It can't be that the Aibershter is missing something. He needs something from me. That can't be. If he needs something from me, I'm not going to serve him." Right. I said, "But if he doesn't need, then you can't serve him." What kind of relationship is that? If he doesn't need anything, what are you going to do for him? Right. So, either way, you're Now, this person came down to this world, and this person gets a grip of what is going on. And he tries, he works hard, he's a bochur, he's a bar mitzvah, or a girl who's bas mitzvah, and she's going and learning about Torah and mitzvahs, and she comes to a certain age, and they start talking about shidduch. Ready for dating, she's 18 years old, 19 years old, start talking about the subject. You are very big proponent of it has to go through a shatchan. Why is that? The shatchan is such a brilliant idea. It's so humane. Because without it, dating can be so cruel and so damaging. Like a shatchan is a friend also. It could be a mutual friend, anybody who who would bring in you know, who would introduce you to the other person versus finding somebody on the internet or hanging out. But besides introducing, the shatchan runs interference, keeps them safe from each other until they get married. The communication is better if there's a third party is what you're saying. So, it's a practical thing is what you're saying. That's why shatchan They're very considerate. Right. For example, you you you meet a few times and you decide not for me. How do you tell her? Correct. I mean, you know, some people have their way with words and some people are stuck. can kill you with words. Yeah, right. So, if you're going to say no, because you're not going to say it over the phone. Right. You're going to get together again, and you're going to say, "It's been nice knowing you, but no." Yeah. She's a little shocked because she thought it was going pretty good. Of course. She's going to ask you why. And you're going to tell her why and she will be traumatized for the rest of her life. Yeah, because that person didn't want to because whatever you're going to say you can't win. It's going to be horrible. Right. With a shadchan you don't communicate with each other about the future. You don't exchange phone numbers. You don't develop a relationship because you're total strangers. Right. If you're planning to go out a second time, you call the shadchan and say that the meeting went nicely. I want to meet again. The shadchan calls the other party. You also want to meet again, then you get together. If you don't want to, you say to the shadchan I'm not interested. The shadchan calls up and says he's he's nothing. And she'll say why? The shadchan will say how am I supposed to know? So you what you're saying is it's just watching on the other person's feelings or it's also it's more comfortable. It's more of a smooth a smooth way of how to get into this. Now as far as I've heard from men more than women. I don't know why. They hesitate starting the whole process. They don't want to meet anybody. They don't want to go out on any dates because they're going to have to say no. And and they're they're too delicate. They're too sensitive. To say no to somebody. Mhm. So they say yes. Right. When they mean no. Right. Now they've gone out seven times and she thinks they're already married and then he has to say no. Yeah. She says like what? Also at what point do you propose? Right. The man has to say He wants to move forward. Let's get married. Yeah. He says let's get married and she says what? Are you kidding? That's so devastating. Right. That should not happen. So if you have a shadchan, you communicate this with the shadchan and say You don't propose until the shadchan says says you you can do it. The answer will be yes. Now as far as dating goes, we know everyone knows this and in a way it's a good thing because everyone is on their best behavior while they date. Now it there is a positive to it because you see that that person knows how to behave. That's number one. Second of all second of all is that um that person that person who is on their best behavior is not telling the truth. And they're both who are they bluffing? That's the question. If you're not open and honest but everyone automatically you're on your best behavior. But if you're not open and honest, you know, it's uh it could be a case of you know you're getting engaged with Rachel and you're coming home with Leah. So how does a person deal with that part that um you look like a sheep and you're really a wolf. Yes, exactly. So how does how does it what's your advice on dating? How should how open should a person be? Should they spill the beans completely? Be themselves? Or be nice because everyone tell told them you got to be nice. You're meeting a new person and No, we were just saying how important the shadchan is. But on the other hand, not everything a shadchan says Yeah. is telling the truth. Right. There's some things that that they recommend and they advise people and say this is not good. I mean they want to see you get married. Right. It's their job. They have they have an agenda. Yeah. Dating has to be the most selfish thing you ever do. It's a time to be selfish now. Absolutely. Because it's your time. It's your it's yours. What why are you meeting? To make sure that you're interested. That you're attracted. So what are you playing games? You're meeting a total stranger. Correct. Why is it important to you to make a good impression? Some people you know okay, again if the answer is self-esteem, it's self-esteem. But some people feel that uh they want to get engaged. They're afraid that everybody's turning them down. Um they want to make a good impression. It's like a job interview. Oh, they're getting a little desperate. Yeah. That's not good. That's not good. So that's what I'm saying. So So step number one is first to know who you are. Know that you're meeting a total stranger and the chances of marrying him or her are very slim. So dress up, put on a lot of makeup, put on a lot of jewelry, put on a lot of What are you doing? What are you doing? You're going to trick her into marrying you? You get you're asking for trouble. Of course you have to go like a mensch. Yeah. There's a balance. Yeah, don't overdo it. You're meeting a stranger. You're going to take a look. Yeah, yeah, nished. It has to be like window shopping. Genuine though. But neutral. I'm not going to impress you. I'm going to but you impress me. Right. So that I know I want to marry you. So you have to be completely selfish. That's the whole purpose. Once you get engaged, then you got to switch to selflessness. That's a whole different uh But people are so much nicer when they're dating than after they're married. Correct. So It's a horrible. Yeah. This is this is you know and and and everybody thinks that way. I have to make a good impression and I want to get this you know This is this is this is wrong. People have it absolutely the opposite the way it's supposed to be. Now So you have shadchanim who say next day try to be a little more funny. Try to be a little more light. You're you're too heavy. You're too Try be a little more serious. What what is What are who are you tricking here? Who are you Right. And it's it's it's it's unbelievable this thing. You know, it says lo toyiv luhum liyosiv l'vadei. Now I want to understand what that means. Even this is for singles. And also for even people who have second marriages on on a person would say this and I had a very hard time. A very bad relationship in the past and I finally got out of it. Or this single person was living a pretty according to him a pretty decent life. Nobody's bothering me. I'm financially okay. Explain why lo toyiv luhum liyosiv l'vadei. It's a very good question because the Torah says lo toyiv. And yet what do you hear from people all the time? It's a mess. Leave me alone. Just leave me alone, I'll be happy. Correct. So what's what's the story? It's good to be alone. I'm good to be alone. Correct. What's good about being alone? It's like someone who would have everything in the world on an island. Money, cars, houses. And there's nobody And independence which is very very good. But there's nothing there. But good sky. There's no good It's it's a perfect existence but it's not a life. When you say good sky, good sky is giving. Yeah. Because if if they you know If there's only you being good to yourself is not a good mitzvah. It's not a big thing. Despite popular opinion that you have to love yourself and validate yourself. It's a horrible. Why? It's narcissism. Yeah. And now we're wondering where is all this narcissism coming coming from. Correct. Why? You keep telling people love yourself, put yourself first, take care of yourself, yourself. It's it's not even natural. Right. Naturally we thrive on others. On giving. Clearly. Now what is the reason when it comes to dating and this is everybody young, old. Why do they want similar to them? Which means if I like business I would like a business person a partner who is a business person. If I like certain whatever you like, you want to see your partner. Is something wrong with that because you were saying that if you're looking for a clone of yourself the dynamic the giving and the the We'll talk about it in a minute but we'll talk about it in a couple but the nature of us as human beings we are looking for people what we like similar to us. And why is that bad? It's only bad if you're marrying those things that you like about the person. Correct. So what you're saying is something very important. It is okay to want something similar like you. You may have wants and needs and look for in a to in a mate. But don't marry the physical things. You may be a partner with that person. But understand there is something more than that which is relationship, giving, taking. Is that that's that's what you're saying? I mean officially the Gemara says why do you have to meet before you get married. Because when you do meet and you don't like what she looks like, you won't be my kind of a sister. Right. It's an amazing statement. Right. Because you have to the Torah tells you to love the person. So what loving loving physically, what does the Torah mean by love? You're not going to love the person because you don't like the looks. That's clearly in the Torah. Yeah. So the purpose of dating is make sure that there aren't things which are not important that are going to prevent you from connecting to the person who is important. So what do you have to have in the Syrian? Find somebody with whom you can connect one-on-one because all the the the the around the the the the details don't disturb you. They don't prevent you from connecting. But if you're marrying those things then it's not even really a marriage. Right. You you you you It's a roommate. You're going towards the things and if that thing is disappeared then the thing is out of the window. And if they don't disappear, you stay married to those things. Right. And the person you're married to feels alone in the world because no one is really connected to him or her. Just to the things. And then it's it's love at again. You haven't achieved the purpose of marriage that you should never feel that you're alone. So what should a person look for? So let's say if a person likes art or a person likes certain things. What should he look for in the person and what does he have to know in his background? That question you cannot ask when you're going out on a date. What you should look for that you have to learn when you're 12? Mhm. How's that? You're going to get married at 15 the Marshall. Right. Right. In other words, that's what you grow up with. You develop your values and your But once you're once you're dating you you're pretty much this is you this is you. Right. And don't don't try to make-believe. So if any silly little thing bothers you about the other person, don't marry him. Clear. Clear-cut. I it's petty, it's silly. So you're petty and you're silly. Now what are you going to do? Right. Well, we tell ourselves we tell ourselves all the time they'll grow it out. I'll deal with it. It's very dangerous. I was talking to a guy. He says, I'm I'm met this woman and it's it's the best of the best but I don't know there's something that's keeping me from I said before you became from did you prefer blondes or or or dark brunette? He said, what's the difference? So I'm just curious. He said, forget what it whatever. Dark. Yeah. I said, is she dark or blonde? She's blonde. I said, that's why you don't want to marry her. He says, that's yet so hard. But that's you. I said, so you're going to marry her without you yet so hard. You're going to leave your yet so hard in your mother's basement? Right. Right. So what you're saying is be true to yourself. You are already you already have your values. What you should Okay, so blame the issue that they didn't give you good values. Yeah. But now marry who you are the way you are for the person that you're meeting and and no no no no spin no make-believe, no fantasies. Yeah. You're very famous for saying if you married for love you're not you're not ready to be married. Yeah. So explain it for the people who are dating. That don't marry for don't marry for the love but marry for what? Can you imagine particularly in in the in the from community a man and a woman meet four five times and the guy says it she's good, she's nice, I like her but but I don't feel like I love her. Right. What in the world would you love her for? Where would love come from? You met five times. They may call love looks. They may call love that this is going to be the image that I'm going to walk down the street. They love themselves is what I'm describing. Right? I don't love her. I don't love the way I'm going to look when I'm going to walk down the street with her. They call this love. Why are you expecting love from five meetings? Okay, so we'll meet 10 times. And for that you love her? Where where does love even come from? It doesn't make sense. What you're saying is love comes it's Hollywood movies. I'm in guns and What what what you're saying is love comes a year later, six months later? If you live together, you marry each other, you make You have children together. You now have in common something you you love you have something to love. Otherwise, what what are you loving? A fantasy. So what's the expectation of love? How long does it take to fall in love? Okay, so what's the definition of love? Not not only for marriage. It love The love. What is the definition of love? The average child in America is trained and taught to say I love my mommy. I love Mickey Mouse. I don't know the the Yeah yeah the more modern Mickey Mouse. Yeah. And and and I love ice cream. What does love mean? It means nothing. The word has lost all its meaning. Do And by the way, they love mommy, ice cream and Mickey Mouse but not necessarily in that order. Right. But let me ask you something. When you say you love in the same category mommy, ice cream and Mickey Mouse ice cream we know that that that person loves themselves. They don't love the ice cream. They love themselves. But by mommy is a child would love their mommy because it the mommy serves the kid like ice cream. They feel safe next to the mom but they didn't comprehend real love yet. Correct? That's what you're saying. The mommy gives me ice cream. Right. So that's love. But what it it's not but what is real love? No. You don't love ice cream. You love yourself. You enjoy ice cream. Okay. So ice cream can be very pleasurable. That's not love. It's not love but love it it's it's a complete word does not it doesn't come together even. So what is love? Connect. Love means a desire for more closeness. Who's benefiting from this love desire of more closeness? The person that's both people are let's say if two people love each other they're both benefiting from. So love is essentially selfish. I can love you and you might not even know it. Correct. So what are you getting from it? Nothing. It's what I love. It's what I'm feeling. It's what I'm experiencing. So the way I understand it what you're saying is when a person is married for 28 years the word love doesn't even come in there. Because that's not the purpose of the whole marriage. If there is love in the if there is love great. But really it is a person to say I live with this person for 28 years and I'm in love. It's not the purpose of marriage. The purpose of marriage is you know, to become one to populate the world all the myths that a person has to do about So with with our feet on the ground. Yeah. So here's here's the real catch. The purpose of marriage is to become one. The whole you the boss of a hood. Right. Does love help you become one or does love prevent you from becoming one? Love prevents you from becoming one. It prevents you. How is that? If I marry someone for their money that's going to help me become one with them? Clearly not. Cuz I won't get past the money. Right. Having your money doesn't get me closer to you. Correct. Because I'm quite content with the money without you. Same thing with love. If I want love and I'm getting love then I'm then I'm home. But I don't need I don't need any more. I am satisfied with the love. So I don't need to move further beyond the love to you. Right. Couple find that they love each other. They get married because they want the love. A week into the marriage, the wife expresses an opinion. The husband is thinking or maybe even says, "Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. I married you for love, not for your opinion. So, keep your opinion to yourself, and let's just continue loving each other." So, no. But, this There again, that's not love. So, so the bonus love them created love. So, it should be it should be we should become one. The correct description of love is when something or someone is important in your life, you should love. If that person made such a impact in your life that you cannot hold back and only love. That's the level in we need to get. Pretty much. If you're married to somebody, you share children with somebody, and you're giving and whatever you're you're doing your job right, love is going to just blossom out of it. You're going to want more. Right. That's love. I want more. More closeness. More of you. Right. So, people want to prove how important love is, they say, "Look how important love is. The biggest mitzvah in the Torah is after all love is so important." And that you're reading it wrong. It doesn't prove that love is important. It proves that a Jew is important. And because a Jew is important, you should love. You should get closer to what is important. Beautiful. Now, let's say this person was born into this world, became an adult, went on a date, and is finally going on a date, and is finally engaged. Went on a date like you said with the right uh state of mind, and that person is engaged. I know that you're one of your Maybe you're still doing it still Are you still teaching chasanim? Like you give chasan classes and stuff like that? Now, this is a huge topic because I don't know what kind I mean, the average person, what on what foundations these chasan lessons are built today because people are going in with this what we were spoke about before. They go in to serve themselves. They go in for image. They go in because they have like a vision board of how their life is supposed to be, what they saw in the movies, or whatever. And they decide that this is what it is, and I'm going to follow this till the end. So, the foundation is not where it's supposed to be because first of all, you got to just guide first of all where where you standing, what are you doing, where you going. My question to you is if you can walk us through on a smaller version, the foundation that you give for a chasan that he should know before he goes to his chasan. Just as you need to be selfish when you're dating, you need to be selfless when you're married. If you think marriage is going to make you into a mensch, it's a disaster. If you think marriage is going to make you happy, it's a disaster. If you think marriage is going to help you achieve your goals, don't use marriage for your benefit, for your vision, for your for for what you think life is all about. It is You need a 360° turn of understanding what marriage is all about. Yeah, so people ask, "And how do I know when I'm ready to get married?" Yeah. So, the way to know is take a look in the mirror in the morning. You see your face in the mirror, and you're fascinated. Don't get married. You like what you see. Yeah. Don't get married. But, if you look in the mirror in the morning, and you think, "No more. The same face again?" Okay, now it's time to get married. You're ready for a new face. But, if you're still fascinated with yourself, don't inflict that on any innocent innocent innocent human being. Undeserving So, so if you're a narcissist, Yeah. keep looking in the mirror. Yeah. Don't bother anybody. Right. So, what you're saying is that if someone doesn't have the concept that your life is going to change in a way completely, which means you're going to start living with another person, giving to another person, understanding another person, and everything yourself to the side. It is zero to do about you, that person is not ready to get married. Yeah. So, this is the foundations what you say you're saying to a chasan before he goes to the to to the chuppah. So, he has to know that this is not a it's not a it's not a It's not a self-help project. It's not a hospital, and it's not a self-help project, and it's not about what your vision is, what your goal is. It's about you building something that you never heard of before. And that is very important. You can say it in simple language. When you get married, you're starting your life. Real life. Your life is much bigger than just you. I mean, life is huge. Right. You're going now from being just yourself to having a life. You got to be humbled by that. Right. It can't be about you. Now, where does mashpia and mekabel come in? So, the Tanya talks about it a lot because the language on the street you'll hear is 50/50. 100/100. You can say "You take out the garbage, I'll do the dishes. Yesterday, I did it. What did you do today?" It's a concept of 50/50. Now, as far as who is the captain of the ship, mashpia and mekabel, how do you explain this to a to a chasan who supposedly is the captain of the ship? 99.9% of all map problems in marriage is because the husband is not the mashpia. They are two mekabelim. They're both mekabel. Or they're both mashpi'im, and then it's even more violent. It's even worse. Yeah. If they're both mashpi'im, there will be constant conflict. If they're both mekabel, nothing will ever happen. Now, what is a healthy mashpia? A mashpia doesn't hunger. A mekabel hungers. Like a student who pushes needs to know, and there's no one to teach. What's the result? He's hungry. You're needy. Yeah. But, if there is no needy student, you have a teacher running around saying, "I need to teach." No. If there's no mekabel, there's no mashpia. So, being a mekabel behind the scenes or under the surface creates the mashpia. Makes him become a better a better mashpia. A mashpia must Otherwise, he's not Right. And the same is true with a talmid and a rav. Right. A student asks a good question, all of a sudden the teacher can help us. Yeah. If the student is not interested, the teacher can't even think of anything to say. So, what you're saying is that the wife plays a tremendous role in this mekabel and mashpia business Yeah. because without her being a true mekabel, he cannot be a mashpia. Yeah. And for him to be a mashpia, that puts him at a very healthy, fulfilling place. So, it turns out that a mashpia is someone who finds the mekabel's need irresistible. A good mashpia. Yeah. And he also like a rav, like you said, he's he's he's chaleshing to give. He has something to give. It's pouring out of his cup to give to the mekabel. But, only what is desired or needed from the mekabel. Yeah. If the mashpia is some big talmid chacham, and he likes to hear himself talk, he's not a mashpia. The mashpia is motivated by the talmid's need. So, if he sees that he's talking to the talmid, and and the talmid is not interested, not responding, you're not being mashpia. So, most of the time if someone plays his card right right, then he is a mashpia, most of the time the wife would be a good mekabel. What What happens if she's not mekabel? Then there's a crisis in the marriage. Every marriage problem, aside from real serious illness which is not even a marriage problem. Right. Right. It's always this mashpia and mekabel. Why would the woman not want to be mekabel if the husband does it right? She doesn't know whether he's doing it right. She's lost respect for him. She She doesn't feel it. If you lose respect, it's finished. How does a person earn respect? By having a life worth living. A man proposes to a woman, "Marry me." Right. What is he saying? He's saying, "I have a very important, meaningful life to live, but I need someone to do it with. Will you live my life with me?" Will you come with me on this journey? On this journey. But what if he has no journey and he has no life? He just wants a little company. And he says, "Marry me." And she says, "Where are we going?" "We'll see." There's no respect. So that's what's missing. That's what's missing in the mashpia. That he did not earn his respect. What if a woman wants to attract her husband? Attract? Yeah. She She She She wants to gain his respect. What is she supposed to do? Well, actually, she needs to respect him more than she needs to be respected. She's not looking for his respect. She's looking to respect him. That should be her goal. That's her need. What is her need? Her need is to devote herself to him. But if there's nothing to respect. So it's it's a balance. It's It's a It's It's It's It takes two to dance. That's exactly what mashpia and mekabel means. Means and that's what oneness means. Yes. When you come together as a busser echad, there's So when you look at a marriage, is there sometimes to say that you blame him or her or it's a It takes two to tango? For all practical purposes, it's usually him. Because we're talking about the captain of the ship. So you would take You proposed and you brought her into your life and then it didn't work. Now, so who's Right. So most of the time you would say that he the king in the house has to take responsibility if there's a rift or something's going on. That's what mashpia means. Mashpia means everything is going to be my responsibility. That's how That's how the rav That's how That's how everybody takes it. They I am fully responsible Right. and this thing needs to run a certain way and if it runs efficiently, I'm getting the credit. So yeah, right. And if it's And but the husband can never say and yet you hear it all the time. Mhm. A husband can never say, "I do what I'm supposed to do. If something is wrong, it's her problem." Correct. That means you're missing a huge point. is your responsibility. That's a husband. Wow. She doesn't know how to It's your responsibility. Don't Don't walk out of You step out of the relationship when you say, "I did my part." Right. Partik and gandeck? Right. What if the woman slacks a little bit here and there? I don't know what it means slacks, but I mean I don't know who makes the rules. But what happens if there is you know, she's not stepping up to the game? Whose responsibility is that? He. He manage a He should find a way how to how Not in a controlling way, of course, but a way how to put this back on the tracks. Now, what if a person listens to this and he decides, "You know what? I don't think that I'm this great giver." And he wants to become a giver. He wants to start to to become a good person. How does someone become a giver all of a sudden? Well, he is a good person. He's a very good person. He's so good, she can't stand him. Because he's not a mashpia. Right. I actually had this This couple was sitting there. The wife was saying, "Since we're married, he hasn't done a single thing. I have to do everything. He does nothing." He looks at me like I can't believe this. And he says to her, "Tell me one thing you asked for that I didn't do for you." She says, "No, you never do anything." He says, "Tell me one thing." She just You know, you never Since we're married Then she says, "You know what? We've been through so much counseling and so much kasha nisht. It's I've had it. I've had it. Let's just get divorced." He says, "If you want a divorce, I'll give you a divorce." And she looks at me. She says, "You see?" What did she mean he never does anything? He does He doesn't care. If I don't ask, he'll never do it. Right. So what's the So ask. Right. Then he's not the mashpia. She's the mashpia. Right. She says, "Let's get divorced." He says, "Okay." Right. Who's the mashpia? They're They're switching roles. That's what And she hates herself for being the mashpia. Of course, because there She's not in her role. That's right. And a mashpia is also not in his zone if he is the mekabel. And sometimes you see this that the women are the breadwinners in the house. Yeah. Doesn't help too much for them. So what happens very often, he stops being the mashpia because it's easier. Yeah. But I mean I'm the man. So he becomes the tough guy by refusing. No. You can't make me do that. Now Now they're just so miserable that it's So if we want to put it in primitive language, yeah? The man says, "I want you to take care of the children and raise them. It's a full-time job and it takes menuchas hanefesh. Correct. If you're not present, if you're if you're distracted, if you're worried, if you're anxious, you're not going to be a good mother. Right. But I want my children to have the best mother. So here's the deal. I take full responsibility for everything. You don't have to worry about a thing. Just take care of the kids. Do your job. That's why the man is the provider, the protector, the the whatever, because if she has to worry about paying bills, she can't be a mother. Right. So that's where the mashpia comes in. He knows to know that it's his responsibility that she have peace of mind. And And most of the time if the mashpia does his job, then things fall into place. Even Even if things that you know, things that he wants to see. But if you let her be and if you let her blossom, then things will will fall into place. But it is so And today It wasn't always that way. It is so common now. Men are too passive Mhm. thinking that that's being respectful to the wife. Being a gentleman. Uh Uh What do you think? What What do you want to do? Oh, you're in charge of the checkbook now? Fine. What you're saying is that the mashpia should take charge. Should take responsibility. Responsibility. So he discovers that she is much better at handling money than him. Right. It's his responsibility to give her the job. But not the responsibility. Right. So now she's taking care of the checkbook because she's good at it. But anytime she wants to stop, she has the right to stop because it's not her responsibility. She's pinch-hitting. Right. Talking about the checkbook, um financials. Financials in a house is a very big big issue. Should a mashpia Should the husband share all his financial dealings with the wife since they're one and you just want to share everything? Should you not share because a lot of times I know personally that I spoke to some people and stuff like that. They shared a little bit too much and let's say the husband has problems in the business. And he comes home Shabbos comes home before Shabbos and he says, "I don't have money for the supermarket. The the bank called me for the house. They're taking away the car. I don't have they'll send home the kids for tuition. And she starts panicking. Now all of he ruined the Shabbos. He just brought the whole thing down. Completely. So there's a concept of a person says, "Listen, you walk in the door, you come in with a smile. It's all good." A bunch of them is going to out. In the meantime, his kishkes are turning over because he's having a hard time on the outside. Should he share or should he not share? He should tell the facts and share his optimism. But hiding is not is like not talking about it is not an option. Why why Why should he hide it? You know, if you think about it, for most of our history, the man came home without money. It's nothing new. Nothing It was always like they Nobody ever had enough money. Correct. Did the wives lose respect for their husbands? Never. No. Not really. Not if the person is a genuine person and uh and has some quality to him, yeah. Not money, quality. Quality. Correct. So they suffer together like a good couple. But today it's like you can't make a living, you shlemazel, you Yeah, they belittle they you know, they they look at the neighbors and if the neighbor has a nicer car or a nicer house, then lose respect. They lose respect. So if the wife is not looking quite as good as she did 10 years ago, Mhm. it's all over. Materialistic. they married the wrong thing. Or they married only for the thing. Yes. Now says to me, "I love everything about my wife." It's a big claim. Yeah. But let's say, "Okay, I love everything about my wife." I said, "That's very interesting cuz your wife wants a divorce. Something's wrong here." "Do you love her?" He says, "I told you, I love everything about her." "No not about her. Do you love her?" He says, "What does that mean?" He doesn't know what that means. You take away all the things, you're left with nothing. You're left with nothing. In other words, there is no person behind these things. Right. It's just that they they they have it all mixed up. So the question I'm going to ask you is for men and women, what's the man's and the woman's obligation later in marriage not to let themselves go. Not to get comfortable with each other because one of your things I think you wrote is that couples are always strangers. You always stay strangers. It's not like children that you can't, you know, with a child is your child. You always have to work on this. There's constant work. So as far as letting themselves go physically and what is a What advice do you have for the man and for the woman of how to keep the marriage going years down the road? We have a childish or teenage cons- conception. If you really love me, then what's the difference how I look? Correct. Like take it the way I am. Yeah. Yeah. Comfort zone. If you really love me, why why why do I have to dress up? Exactly. Why do I have to be Exactly. polite? Why do I have to be considerate? Right. You're going to love me no matter what, right? That's one way or you have nowhere to go. You're stuck with me. Right. You have kids, you have this, there's a million reasons. But what should a person know? That's why the yeshivas can do whatever they want. You don't like it? Where Where you going to Where you going to go? And the the kosher product. Where Where you going to eat? Yeah. We got you. So it's obviously not true that no matter how you behave, your husband is going to love you. What kind of silly concept is that? It's very if you're not if you're not a mensch with your own spouse, the result is much much worse than if you're not a mensch with a stranger. Correct. The ugliness when when when it when it goes bad between a husband and wife, it's such a common thing. He is such a nice guy. He goes to shul, everybody loves him. He's the life of the party. He's the nicest guy. He'll do anyone a favor. He's to his wife, he is momish a rasha muresh. How does this happen? Because if you have to live with somebody who is not being a mensch, it creates such disgust. It creates such contempt. It's It's almost dangerous. Right. So if you want to not be a mensch, do it in public. But don't bring it home. Right. Not in the You know, the the famous father says to his daughter, "You can't go out dressed like that." "You can't go out dressed like that?" Turn it around. "You want to dress like that, you can go into the streets. In the house, you dress like a mensch." Right. Why is the house become less important? And here's another thing, and it's shocking that frum Yidden have no idea. Between husband and wife, you still have to be tzniut? That's More than with a stranger. You don't dress tzniut with a stranger. He'll think you're Yeah. So who cares? But if your husband loses respect for you, if you lose respect for him, the tzalus are indescribable. Right. I was going to ask you uh from before when we were talking about the chassan lessons about um taharas hamishpacha. Can you explain how important what a vital role this plays um in a marriage and why is it uh the practical part and the halacha part? So the first thing is the the the the the negative connotation that when a woman needs to go to the mikvah, she is tamei. Oh, she's tamei. Right. That's so not Jewish. Right. But what's the words they use when they teach this? Is it not tahor? Is it Is it They whatever They use the word tamei? The the She There's something wrong with her. Stay away from her. Right. And if you And if you get near you touch you'll become contaminated or whatever. Right. It's terrible. Mhm. When a woman is a niddah, she is not being mekabel, she's giving out, not taking in. When she is not taking in, how dare you try to be mashpia? So that's the concept to why to stay away from Out of respect for her. Not because she's tamei. Right. She can't be mekabel. Why you you force-feeding her? Right. We We made a film about this whole subject. Mhm. And the the filmmaker interviewed a lot of people. Interviewed a Chinese doctor. He from Chinese medicine Yeah. He said that in Chinese medicine, husband and wife are not intimate when she is having a period because you can't eat the yin and yang at the same Ah, yes. So it's push it a physical reality that you can't be poilet Right. And and mekabel at the same time. So you push it have respect for a woman. She's going through a change. Avdei Chareidi. Right. It's not look down at her and So if the man can't respect that, it's not that he's not frum. It's just not a mensch. Just not a mensch. What are you doing? Right. But what what about as far as you know, as far as hookers and touching and uh It makes so much sense. I just let her be. Yeah. And she said, "I'm letting her be. I'm just going to You're not just going to You don't understand human nature. Why are you making it hard on yourself? It's just simple derech eretz. Yeah, but if you don't keep the halachos you're teasing yourself. You know you're going to fail. Don't make it hard on you. The halachos make it so much easier. And there's also a concept of uh coming together like newly weds, um you know, separating for a while and then refreshing this this uh Look, the worst thing that can happen is if a if a woman loses respect for her husband and if the husband takes his wife for granted. They're they're they're different people. This is a mashpia, this is a mekabel. Their problems are different problems. A woman can take insults. A man cannot. A man can live without appreciation. A woman cannot. Why can't a man take insults? I can't, but some people can. They close up. They're emasculated. Very easily. I mean, it's very like a guy's a comedian and he gets up to perform and nobody laughs. He's dead. It's a vegehakig. Vegehakig. He'll never tell another joke. He won't risk it again. Right. He's emasculated. Right. He He has been crippled as a mashpia. Right. He'll become a mekabel. Because that's that's the nature of a mashpia. It all depends on how what you're giving is is received. If it's not received so the worst thing that a wife can say to her husband is not "You're stupid." Which is pretty bad. The worst thing she can say is "Never mind. I'll do it myself." Yeah. You have dafnisht. Yeah. That's it. He's If the If the mekabel dafnisht the mashpia, he's no longer mashpia. He's He's finished. He's no longer relevant. Yeah. But a woman doesn't need compliments. She's not a mashpia. But if she doesn't get appreciation she's horrified. Not Not destroyed. Upset. Yeah. Yashar. When she loses the respect. But But her upset is not "You hurt me." Right. No. "You're not right." Mhm. "I do this for you and you don't say thank you." Yashar. Yeah. So a woman is hurt more by the lack of yashar. A man is hurt personally. Right. Or iger kenisht. Right. Okay. Kenisht. And the reason is because he is a mashpia. Yeah. And he gets shut off. He gets He gets taken away from his position. We hear the word tolerant the word tolerant a lot. You got to be tolerant. You got to have resilient and this and that. Tolerant in a marriage I mean, you can hear people say "I'm tolerating." Tolerating because I have kids. I'm tolerating because of finances. I'm tolerating this, tolerating that. How destructive is tolerant in a marriage? The beginning of the end. The beginning of the end. Same as compromise. Compromise that is that harsh? Is the same you would put it on the same level? Yeah, it's poison. You have to compromise. Marriage is a compromise. You cannot live a compromise. You can compromise for a half hour. Not for the rest of your life. Right. So if you think marriage is a compromise then don't get married. You want to live your life to the fullest is what you're saying. Some people even say marriage is a sacrifice. You got to sacrifice. You got to sacrifice. What are you sacrificing? You wanted to go on a vacation. Your wife said no. So you say if you're not ready to go, we won't go. So she is now happy. And you feel like you sacrificed. You didn't sacrifice. You made your wife happy and that's what you're there for. It's not a sacrifice. What's the sacrifice? So how does a person know when he is a rug or when he's standing up for himself, you know, in a healthy way? If they're living his life then the details are not so important. You said, I say, she said, whatever. We're going in my direction. I'm the captain. Then you know you're on the right track. Why is it so painful when a wife says to the husband "Slow down." driving. "Slow down." Not good advice? He doesn't like it. It's It's devastating. Why is that? "You don't like how I lead." If you don't like how I lead You're criticizing my my my job, my position. You're not trusting my Right. If you don't trust me, like Are you Are you Are you in my life? You're not in my life. The worst thing that a chasan can do Mhm. And this happens all the time. You come home from the chasana. And he says to his kallah "What should we do now?" That's it. He gave over the the reins. She hates him. She eked it. Yeah. What What did you used to do? "What should we do now? What did I marry you for?" Right. That's it. She'll never forgive him. He killed it from the beginning. So what you're saying is that a chasan and a husband should know his position. Know your role. You brought her into your life. And your job And you get them all You don't know what life is. Right. What you do to me? And this is with decisions in life in general the wife would want to would is expecting that you should lead. Yes. Right. Now expectations, this is another thing. High expectations will get you nowhere or will get you deep in the ground. What can a man expect from the wife and what can What is allowed for the wife to expect from her husband? You can expect everything. You can't demand. But if you have expectations who knows where these expectations come from? The danger is if you have an expectation and it's not happening, you're going to start demanding. Now it's going south. going in the bad direction. Yeah. But the expectation should be because you're one and there is love and there's a mashpia and a mekabel, you may you you can have an expectation and you can express it as well. It's like being optimistic. Having a civilized conversation. I expect that by next week we're going to have a better life. We're going to have more money. We're going to have a bigger house. Why not? Now when you hear a couple that there was cheating going on or infidelity, whatever how do you view this? Do you are are blaming both because obviously someone lost each other in the middle over there? Or are you blame Is it just lost, you know, a sex addiction maybe? Or myim ginevim yum toke, they have a decent marriage but you know men especially and women also What is your reaction when you hear So let let let's let's take an opportunity here to say something important. Looking on on on the internet, pornography Correct. Tamei geifen. Yeah. What's so terrible? Because I want to I want to cut in for you in a second because I remember years ago and this is this is I wanted to talk about years ago, I don't know how many years, but you gave a lecture on this internet. I was mesmerized. I was sitting there and watching this thing. It was you know it was the time that they were fighting the internet very much and you were saying these are the words I'm giving you I just a word and you were saying this garbage with this porn or whatever is going on on the internet is not going to scare us. Because this was going on for years. Wait, it goes back all the way to Mizraim. So, I'm not getting so nervous. Used to be on the newsstands. Now it's on the internet. Your opinion I think was that the education and the awareness is important. Oh, you you were like saying like some sort of bring it on. We can handle it. That was your idea and I was going to ask you again. Now we're going to let you continue about the internet, what you what what you want to say about the internet. What is the harm? What's the harm? That's what every man says. I So I took a look, no? What What So what's Well, and if the wife finds out, she can't handle it. And he says, So I did this, did? So I took a look, so what? Yeah. Yeah. So they have to make it into a an addiction. Oh, it's an addiction. Oh, now here's what real problem, and men have to know this. Watching pornography makes you the makabe. Correct. You're being passive and you're letting the computer or the pornography s- stimulate you or whatever. Right. You're going to become impotent. It's a fact. You don't become more sexual, you become incapable. So when women get upset that the man is watching pornography, it's because I'm losing you. Right. I'm losing you as as a mashpia. Yes. In front of my eyes, you're turning into a makabe. And that brings down the marriage. Clearly. It brings down the man. Yeah. So it's not the avera the tuma the And avera when you know we're kind of used to sins. This is by no means what you say. We're used to averas. When I Oh, this avera. Okay, so an avera, you know? But this is killing you. You're mamish becoming a woman. Yeah. And the worst part of it is that I heard also from people that I spoke to, plenty of them, is that he or she he is going and watching whatever he's supposed to watch and then whatever he wants to watch and then he comes home and he expects you know, participation in the house. He expects her to become the mashpia. Yeah. But he is and she she she's like, where do you where do you take this from? Yeah. This is another one that is um How do you deal with that? How does a wife deal with that? So a man, if he wants to be happily married, should not admit to his wife all his weaknesses. Right. This There's a whole big concept of if you if you should spill the beans, everything that you went through in your life, even as a bocher and stuff like that. Why is it important to share everything? You have to be considerate. Honesty is not always the best thing. If it hurts the other person, if what say you're a tzaddik on somebody else's expense, Right. You're going to tell the truth. And if it hurts, too bad. Right. During the two weeks that you're not allowed, don't keep telling your wife, "It's so hard for me. It's so It is hard. You don't have to complain to her about it. Be the leader. Be the It's hard for her, too. What you're saying is you're giving yourself away in a very cheap way. You're mevasel yourself. Right. And then she's supposed to respect you? Right. Now after a cheating situation, is there place for forgiveness? Absolutely. A woman can completely 250% forget what happened? Let's say if it was a relationship and say to herself, "Listen, he had a bad moment. I'm willing to not ever go back there and think about this again and start from fresh." Yeah. To dig and and uh it's doable? It's uh it's it's doable. Men have a much harder time forgiving. But I think that in in principle, avera is a terrible thing. But respecting avera is even worse. You have too much delichas for avera. Yeah. Oh, this avera. The the world is over. It's just an avera. Don't worship averas. Because if we did, we're all finished. Right. It's all a That's what it is. We fall, we get up, we fall. The Ribono shel Olam created before he created the world. Yeah. So if you help yourself, when is okay a divorce? It's never okay. Never. There is no way under the sun that a person would say that divorce is the right thing to do right now. No, the the language is a little There are circumstances in which divorce has to happen. What kind of circumstances? Severe cases. When it has to happen, there's no brera. Right. So it's not a good thing. Right. It's the last resort. Yeah. When it's not necessary, then it is absolutely When it's necessary, it's never It's never an option. Other metanish, other memus. What must happen that a divorce should happen? If it's destroying you. If it's destroying you as a person. If it's pikuach nefesh. Right. And then you don't ask. There was a woman in Minnesota who she had the marriage was like a lechter, you know? Yeah. Every month, every 2 months she would come and say, "I can't. I can't. I can't. I can't. Is it all right if I divorce him? Should I divorce him?" I said, "No." Month after month, yeah. She says, "Why do you keep saying no?" I said, "Cuz you keep asking." When you'll come and tell me that you've had it, it's done. It's done. But you're asking. No. Right. I had a funny story with her. Yeah. One time she came and she said it was the middle of the winter, it's Minnesota. She says, "My husband woke up. He took the car. He left. I don't know where he went. He didn't tell me. The car has bald tires. It's not good for the driving on the snow. He's on the highway someplace. I don't know what's going to be." And she's angry at him. I said, "Why are you angry? Maybe he'll get into a car accident. He'll die." She says, "Chas v'shalom." I said, "You're not You're not divorcing him." You're not ready yet. No way. Now we have uh everyone, I think, couples and have arguments and disagreements and stuff like that. And it's okay, I guess, it's part of communication. But when does it step When does a person know when it steps over the line and it becomes abuse? You know, people would say this is abuse. He says, "I just said something." W- How do you know How do you have a balance of just an argument? I have a difference of opinion. And when can she say or he, "It's abuse"? The word abuse is a little abused. It's been thrown around a lot. If a man comes home from from work at the end of the day Mhm. and walks past his wife and goes to do something, it's abuse. It's abuse. Ignoring, neglecting, that's abuse. Has to mamish become dangerous to life and limb? Right. That's abuse. Right. My father, aleha shalom, he never called my mother. You You heard this? Yeah, by her name, right? We never knew her name because he never used her name. Because when he wanted to talk to her, he went to where she was. Tremendous respect. He never had to call her. Right. And now when I'm in a house with and I hear the husband calling the wife. Wow. How do you talk to your wife like that? Right. The tone of voice. Yeah. Where are you? This is how you talk to her. Right. And what what happens That's abuse. Yeah. What happens when you see it on the other way around? You see the wife yelling on the other Same thing. That means she lost respect. I completely Lost respect. Watch what happens when the phone rings. Yeah. She answers the phone. So nicely. Yeah. A completely different person. Like a dibbuk. Right. What if a couple with the time they grew apart in religion? Different values. Later. Is there a reason for divorce? No. Never. How should she or he go about it if uh they have a difference in belief? If she used to respect him because he was a year shamayam and not a daily and now he's not? Right. She has to find something else to respect. She has to accept the fact that he's not on her level and continue with the family. But but she can't be without respect. So she'll have to find something else to respect in him. He's honest. Right. He's helpful. He knows what he wants. Oh, he wants the wrong thing but Right. He knows what he wants. That you can find in the kid that they have in everybody. And that should be her job. But it should be not just something good. Something he is better at than her. Mhm. That she should really respect. Because if it's not better than her, she's not respecting him. She's approving of him. And that is the exact opposite of respect. Right. Person My husband's a mensch. He's a real mensch. All right. And what are you? A bigger mensch. That's not respect. Right. What's the biggest struggles that young people face today? There are so much Yeah, a few hours. So this is this is the challenge of today. Can you recognize that it's not about you? Give all the Right. Otherwise, you're a narcissist. Yeah. He says other other. Yeah. Because you can be completely enmeshed in yourself. All you see is yourself. And this is just the opposite and that's why, you know, in narcissism there's there's no relationship that works out. It's impossible. These people leave cemeteries behind them. This is with the parents and with the children and with the any relationship in business. What message do you have for a person who lives in fear? Lives in fear? He's afraid that the marriage is not going to work out. He's afraid that the children He he feels that the world is lined up against him and but he wants to move forward. What do you have to say to the to this person? If it's a serious condition you need therapy. You need lap you lap But what what he's saying is that it should be Is it a Is it a a minute thing? Is it Is it to say I believe in the bunch of them and the bunch of them loves me and I love the bunch of them and I'm doing At least I'm trying to do the right thing. Why would the bunch of them disappoint me? We we have an awesome relationship. I would just leave out the word love. Who says loves you? Because if I walk on the street and I see love and I see the love of the one in everything. I see love and if I breathe and if I see I see through my eyes. Again, we're using the word very uh broadly. He is responsible. He takes care. He's the boss. He loves you. How do you know? Because he lets you live? Because I count my blessings. Yes. Could have been worse. I would have done that. But what is the doing? He's maintaining you because he needs you. What's in there? Nothing. Love needs to be earned. There's no automatic love. But there is devotion, commitment. He is very reliable. You have a second. So you don't say wake up in the morning because I know you love me. I don't know you love me. And maybe by the end of the day he won't love me. But you promised me you'll give me back the You give me back my soul. So there are things more important than love. And it turns out push it psychologically human beings need to be needed more than they need to be loved. Yeah. I had a friend who was in jail. He was incarcerated for a couple of years and I was asking him, "What's the hardest part of being in jail?" You know, he didn't talk about the humiliation. He didn't talk about He was saying that I'm not needed. Bills are being paid. Food is being My wife has food and everything. Not being a person. That's what the hardest part. That's what he said. I had a story where this little boy tried to kill himself. With his friend. So they uh They're holding him in the hospital for observation. But that hospital is like a prison. Yeah. It's a dangerous place. They're deciding whether he should go to the electric chair or to therapy. This is like a dangerous uh So it's a prison. Nobody can go up there. Double locked doors with bars on the windows and the nurses carry tasers and handcuffs and So the mother of this boy asked me to go visit him. She's not allowed. And it's for 48 hours. So I go up there. And I try to talk to this boy and he's not interested. Doesn't even look up at me. Right. I'm trying to start a conversation. He says get lost. Finally, he says Why don't you go home? The chaplain has already been here. The hospital chaplain visits everybody. I said What did the chaplain say? He says something stupid. I said, "What did he say that was stupid? I'm really curious." He said I shouldn't kill myself because God loves me. I said, "That's stupid?" He says, "Yeah." I said, "I agree." I can't imagine God loves you. You're an obnoxious brat. He looks up. He says, "Yeah?" The kid was fearless. Yeah. But now he wanted to listen. Huh? But now that made him Yeah, he's like, "Well, yeah, so yeah, well." I said, "Look, he created you. Obviously, he needs you. There's something that you can do for him that nobody else can do. So unfortunately, he's stuck with you. I don't know if he likes you. He says, "What if I don't want to do what he created me for?" I said, "That's called freedom. That's called freedom of choice. You have a choice. Some Take a position. He won't. You don't want. Say yes, no. Say something." Anyway, I got home. And I realized I was making a joke about the whole thing. He is so right. What the chaplain said is stupid. Worse. The kid tries to kill himself. He's making a very loud statement to the world. I'm not necessary. Who says I have to live? I lived already 14 years. It's enough. Yeah. Let's try something else. Cuz I'm not necessary. The chaplain comes and says, "Don't kill yourself. God loves you." He's literally saying, "You're right. You're nobody loves you. You're not necessary. But don't kill yourself because God loves you." And he's thinking I'm a pet? Who do you love that you don't need? Right. A goldfish? Right. A human being can't be a pet. So he he was missing the awareness that he was born into this world because he has a mission. Yes. He has a shliachus. Yes. He has to do something. So, the chaplain comes along and says, "Okay, fine. I love I love you." So, this is so stupid. It didn't resonate with him. Human beings need to be needed more than we need to be loved. Yeah. Victor Frankl Yeah, with the Man's Search for Meaning book. Yeah. So, he said in the concentration camp, if you felt needed, you survived. Okay. Everybody loves you. Uh too bad. It's not going to help you survive. Not over there. But if you feel needed, you feel like you have a mission and you have to accomplish something that clearly that does it. I want to ask you a few personal questions for the people who want to know about they hear so much of your wisdom, of your Torah, and of your philosophies, but they want to hear a little bit of your personal life. What was your biggest struggles that you remember that you overcame? I I don't I don't think I ever struggled to overcome. I'm too lazy. I was by nature very very shy. Very self-conscious and timid and I couldn't speak in front of my own family. Wow. But in the Yeshiva, they told us everyone has to go to a shul and and and and give over a sicha of the Rebbe. And and it just built your self-esteem. "Not me." Wow. He said, "No exceptions." I had no choice. I could have shvitzed. I was nervous. I was every and I went. Wow. And it was good. I I didn't struggle. At least not for more than one day. Yeah. But imagine what this brought out after so many years. Yeah, yeah. It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable stuff. I think the Rebbe's project This was the Rebbe's project. Yeah. He's so smart. Genius. Genius. That's why I always say the created leaders. He had such He was so secure with himself. And he he just let everybody go on their own. It's it's to marvel at. It was another thing that helped a lot. I really admire those who speak It was like a genius suffering from a trauma. And I went to to one guy who was giving a lecture. He was standing by a by a bimah or something. No, by a a shtender. Yeah. And they asked and came to the time for the questions. Somebody was asking him a question and he fell asleep. Standing He fell asleep. I said, "Wait a minute. If it's that easy then I got to be able to do it. What is your biggest joy? Biggest joy when a person says "Wow, I never thought of that." Yeah. That's That's being a mashpia. Yeah. That's That's giving of yourself. Teaching and being a rav in a town that and it really puts you in a position. You just said this the last But but that that energy that that Yeah. That you you just a life Yeah, you see the person like come alive. Yeah. It's like it's like person was without oxygen turning blue. Right. And all of a sudden it's like, "Ooh, I'm breathing." Yeah. And what is your definition of a ilchi Ilchig means beloved. Let me be honest. Final question. Who is your role model? Oh, I had I had Baruch Hashem. Such a blessing. I had a Rosh Yeshiva in Montreal. Wow. I can't thank him enough. I had Rabbi Yisrael Kahn Yeah. at 770. I had an older bochur who poshut started me off. I had a lot a lot of really quality people. Wow. And you give them credit for what what you what you you for your accomplishments today for the way you spread the word. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. So, and they made such an impact the Rabbi Yisrael Kahn and uh And of course the Rebbe. Yeah. The tremendous impact. Wow. I got to tell you Rabbi Manis Friedman you're a gift to the world. Wow. Your wisdom and your chachma and I want to thank you for that that you're sharing this. You could have held all this stuff by yourself. What good would it do? So, what do you do is By yourself is a disease. Is a disease, yeah. It's narcissism. Right. Like again, going back to Today we have to convince young children nothing that you have is for you. Right. Nothing. Right. It's yours but it's not for you. If you have information and knowledge, what makes it for you? Right. You're capable of loving. So, you're going to love yourself? Right, exactly. That's That's sick. Otherwise, you give it to others. Absolutely. You are a true mashpia. You're a shliach and you are a mensch and the bonch l'sholom should help you that you should be able to share for many many years to share and have a youman v'shunam and continue inspiring the world. Amen. And we should have good news. Endless good news in Eretz Yisrael and the world in general. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. It was a pleasure.