The Struggle Podcast EP20 Part 1- Avi Fishoff Guiding Parents Though Tough Teen Years

that what I saw over there I cannot describe it any more than Kedra Knight >> went in and he looks at me and he says goes like that he says you're a fish you know I thought you have a ponytail had mental illness diagnosis kids who were thrown out of rehabs kids who were were stealing kids who were one kid was living in a in a truck in an empty truck he found in a Walmart I deal with violence I deal with kids who put a knife at their father's neck You don't know what to do. What should I do? I shouldn't do anything. >> Do nothing. >> Do nothing. He said, "This Shabas is the first time in five years all of our children were at the Shabas table." He said, "You know, ma, I used to feel like I'm living in a hotel and now I feel like I have a family. It's it's like trauma parenting. It's >> abusive parenting." >> What is the definition in short of a good parent? Okay, we have a one special guest here tonight. His name is synonymous with courage and compassion. He dedicated his life to help parents in the world of stigma, in the world of teens who are struggling with addictions, rebellious teens, teens who are disconnected. He is a lifeline to the parents. It is a great honor to welcome to the struggle podcast Avi Fishoff. >> Where's the applause? >> Yes. What an audience. >> Yeah. >> So, first of all, I want to say that u it's a pleasure to be here. >> Thank you. >> And it's a to be here and uh I was very impressed when you came to all the way to Brooklyn to sit in on a group in the crisis center and to see hands-on um you know what's going on because not many people get to see it from the inside. and uh I saw that I'm dealing with someone who's a sincere person who wants to help Cloud Israel and uh that's why I I felt that I had to say yes. >> Thank you. Thank you so much. And um I got to say something about that and then I'll come back to what I wanted to say. I am so grateful that you invited me to that uh it's called uh Twisted Parenting Crisis Center. We'll talk about it uh what that means later. But all I can say that what I saw over there I cannot describe it any more than Kedra night. The tears flowing. What was going on over there was a case of a Monday night one of a troubling teen who came back and what you did is you got appearance. Um and I think you can find this on YouTube on your channel. >> Yeah. Very courageous of him. He he came and his parents >> and his parents he came and what you wanted to display is two things that your mahalik of twisted parenting works >> and also how the courage that these parents have and you want to encourage all the other parents and also give to the teens to know that there is a way back >> teens and young adults >> teens and young adults it's unbelievable >> is really for everybody >> yeah and and and what's what's unbelievable what my takeaway what I saw over there is first of all and and we'll talk about the books you wrote that you're involved in but the Phyllis that I saw before and after is is is beyond me not only that the parents were sitting over there the the spirituality in that room is beyond words because there were parents over there >> who knew the tim who knew the names of this barak and they also knew names of other ones >> and everyone knows each other's names and you're sitting over there leading the meeting throwing out names. You know there was a rashiva once who was saying that he is what a good rasha he is and this and that and he was asking one of his mashikam do you know the name of the students to dam for them and what I experienced over there is I I I've never seen this in my life the way and you also told me that most of the times you don't even know these teens you don't never meet the kids >> you never meet the kids this is a kesh that I've never seen before you're dealing with parents of how to do certain things and that that's it. When you get to meet a kid is when he comes back already >> sometimes. >> Sometimes sometimes you don't even meet. >> There are many kids that are that are roaming around the world several hundred. >> Yeah. >> Whose parents sat with me for sometimes years >> and I held their hands and they have no idea >> what the turn was, what caused it that their parents all of a sudden >> understood them and and helped them >> to heal. And um many hundreds >> unbelievable >> and they'll never know >> and that's fine >> and and that is a tremendous and and and that's what twisted parenting is all about and it's Kishmo because there is the so-called normal parenting and then there is a Fish's twisted parenting. I I one thing was was I left with was very interesting story and I'm going to share it just to show what twisted parenting means. There was a lady over there that her daughter decided not to call her mommy. She didn't call her mommy. it was bothering her. You know, it's it's just a I'm your mommy. I'm not your uh don't call me by my name. And with time, the way you are um you know, you're guiding these parents is buy them gifts and just be quiet. Just swallow it. It's going to come around. It's going to change. At one point in time, she bought a gift to the daughter and she wrote from Tati and her name. She didn't mention her name, Mommy. That was the last time that this child called her by her name and called her mommy. So that was so touching. So it's it's it's unbelievable. So I have to thank you for that. For just it was worth everything in the world just to see that. >> Yeah. It's psychology. >> It's it's not a it's not a joke and it's not a a game and it's not an accident and it's not magic. It's psychology. >> It's very pushet and it comes from the Tyra. And a lot of people they hear like what you have to buy gifts. They don't understand. So they make things up like oh Abby says beam just whatever. I don't say anything. I have experience for a long time and I see what works and what does not work >> and we do things that work like I have the video of him when he came to the parents and he said the main thing is this works. >> Yes. You have something that works, something that is guided by principles of dash. Every family people don't know they think it's like heer. Somebody I don't want to say which which Reb someone brought me into him and I I went in and he looks at me and he says goes like that. Heavy you know I thought you have a ponytail and they think it's like the aby says everything's fine. No. No. Every family that comes to me, I think I'm the only one that requires this >> their highest level of dastra has to write a letter saying sending them to me and agreeing to pass in any shilus or even ashkaf and each parent signs aar they sign mamaar they're not going to implement any advice >> before checking with their even let's say buying a television for a kid in his room a kid who's depressed or whatever ever it is it's different for I have people from young Israel I have people who are call it or and then you have you have so I can't tell a family to put in a big TV into their room it's not really where you are you have to know so let's say in sat both sat rabbis sent to me they pick a dian the dian goes into the rabbi there's already set up a few dam that know me and that the Reb trusts and they write in the in the letter that this and this family came to me and they have this crisis and I went to the Reb and you'll see in the letters I I I give them out if anybody needs it's easy to get you know with from all the all the rabbis you know that they they sent they said that they should go to you and I will pass an iss of of the kahill >> and it works out very very very very well. >> Wow. >> I've never said anything. I've never gotten a no because I know from my place that I went to um I know the rules. I know the rules. But the main thing is first of all you have to have a mahalak that works. If you want to have a good kosher restaurant, right? >> First your chef got to make a good dish, right? >> And then you have to make sure it's kosher. You have kosher but it's not good food. has to work and has to be and and we triple check everything to make sure because people say they have a Tyra problem with what I'm doing and they don't know they don't know the and they don't know the the >> and it's also very interesting the way you're like I'm I'm not doing anything. I mean if so you you're letting this thing go. You're you're like to the bunch talk to the bunch everything is going it's not your own advice or your own thing. You you you let yourself into just what what the swam right and you're very much connected to shulam right you give she and it's very interesting you're the founder also of home sweet home >> right >> what is home sweet home >> was a home a living home a home that people live in kids live in um that I opened up in 2003 that's really what what what made this whole thing work you know most people who are speaking about kids at risk, they have their own and it's very important. I'm one of the only few that I didn't go through this problem. But I adopted basically into my life so many kids and it wasn't a drop in center. It wasn't a place where they can leave. It wasn't open. >> It was an actual home. >> It was a home. >> And I moved kids in 365 days a year. >> And they couldn't live in the h in their home. kids who were homeless and kids who couldn't live at home and kids who were doing all kinds of bad stuff. Kids who were had mental illness diagnosis, kids who were thrown out of rehabs, kids who were were stealing, kids who were one kid was living in a in a truck in an empty truck he found in a Walmart. >> Kid from from this neighborhood that you're in >> and um really tough cases. >> How did you get involved? What what how did what >> we need a separate podcast for each thing. How did I get involved is a separate uh story. >> Home sweet home which was opened from 2003 till 2014 is another story. In 2009 I was running home sweet home. I mean I wasn't getting paid. I supported it and I I raised money from other people for it. I didn't take any salary and I was running it myself and I had a bunch of volunteers that were amazing to take the guys out at night. But I was the whole staff. >> It was the entire staff. And then in 2009, parents, which is another story how that happened. Parents started reaching out to me and I said, "I don't work with parents. I love these kids. Send me your kid. Boys, not girls, but boys." And parents started begging me one after another without knowing each other. It's a whole other podcast. Just unbelievable. >> That's when Twisted Parenting was created. >> Yeah. >> Amazing stuff. And after I had 30 or 40 parents coming to me like every week, another and I I would be like, "Wow, I sat with these people for five hours in a row, eight hours in a row." And I and they I realized that what to me was push, right? To them was big, >> right? Which was common sense to you. >> To me, it was so common sense that no, no, that's not going to help him. No, no, you want to stop him. Doing that is not gonna stop him. And and they would be like, "Yeah, you're right." And I and they would say like, "But I wanted this and that." I'd say, "Okay, did you ever try that before?" >> "Yes." "How many times?" "A hundred." I said, "That can't work for this kid. It can't work." And and I worked with them and I saw and they saw success. >> And I I saw that this is steamrolling. And I realized that instead of helping four, five, six kids a year living in Home Sweet Home, I could help 50, 60, 70 kids. >> If you were going to teach, >> I teach the parents how to make their home sweet. >> That's unbelievable. >> I teach them what I learned. >> Everybody's It's probably the biggest crisis in Clus, one of them. And everybody's missing the piece that that heals. So there's so many other organizations doing wonderful things that the parents who come to me don't need. My friend is uh the head of showroom in Flatbush. They have 20 showroom guys that are trained specialists in in domestic violence and most of it is parents fighting with their teenagers. >> Unbelievable. I asked him, "You ever got a call from a TP parent?" Nope. I never sent the I never felt that we needed to send the kid out of the house, even kids who everybody else said, "You got to throw them out because the advice that the family gets was escalating the situation, >> right? >> So imagine someone has 99.8 fever and then they have 103 fever. They go to the doctor, they have 101 fever. The doctor gives a medicine that causes 102 fever, causes 103 fever. They give you more of the same medicine, causes 105 fever, and they say, "Sorry, we can't help you." The advice that the parents were getting consistently >> sometimes from family members, >> no, even professionals, even rabbon, well-meaning people, but it escalated the situation much worse than if you would have just done nothing. >> And then they they have such a crazy situation, you got to throw them out. But what I do with the parents, I deescalate the situation, >> right? >> And that's why we have no homeless kids. All of our kids are living at home or welcome at home. There's a few percent that moved out already or whatever. But >> and when you don't have to feel homeless, you saved already in that person's life. >> You save suicideman and overdose. We don't have her. We never had a suicide. We never had a suicide from dealing with hundreds and hundreds of kids who were suicidal. Really suicidal. >> Kids who have severe eating disorders that get healed. Kids who who were stealing, who were selling drugs. We don't have any kids in jail. I was at at Nagoda convention and Arv came over to me in the hallway. We were all walking and he says, "Avi, who's your connection at the DA's office?" I said, "I'm sorry, I don't know anybody at these DA's office." What? >> That's impossible. >> He says, "What do you mean? Which policeman do you know? Which of the So I said, I'm sorry, I don't know." So Him stopped me and he says, "Everybody knows you have the biggest workload." >> Yeah. >> Which is true because most people have 35, 45, whatever. I have a much larger work work case load. What do what does that mean? You don't I deal with violence. I deal with kids who put a knife at their father's neck. I said, I never I never had a kid. I don't have any kid in the jail system. And if a kid has a problem, so they call a local lawyer. It happens very very rare when when your parents are your are your your best friends and you feel beloved. You feel it. Why would you take a knife out to your father, to your mother? The only reason that all this craziness happens is because the kids feel that these people hate me. These people are judging me. >> There's a certain distance between >> major distance. I ask people, what's your relationship with your kid? That's one in the intake calls that I have, >> right? >> And it's it's very low. So yeah, if you if your relationship with your mommy and your daddy is so low, you know, even puppies know that they have a mama dog and a papa dog to take care of them. And over here they lose that. And why do they lose that? Because these kids are doing crazy things. So it's very easy to lose. So we do the opposite. And I have so many parents like this family that you were talking about and they have they have four kids off the two with major eating disorders um and all the other stuff, drugs and the whole thing. And they're crying because they're saying we had peace in our home. I could show you the text that that they sent me after being by me not even a month. They said this Shabas is the first time in five years all of our children were at the Shabas table. >> That is nuts. >> Calm and happy. This one has is sick. She has an eating disorder. But you know there was a time they locked the girl out of the house. They were instructed, "If you're going to have an eating disorder, if you're not going to eat, >> not here, >> right? I'm not going to give you money to binge and I'm not." And they cut the kid off and she was homeless. It's literally like going to someone with cancer and saying, "If you're not going to stop having cancer, not in this house." And I'm like, "This is a sickness." Plus, in addition for the calm and the peace, calming down the kid, even if it's not a solution to the maha, this is how we take care of sick people. >> Yeah. >> I don't get angry at them. These kids, today I was on the phone with someone from Argentina before coming to me. They would hit their child physically hit their child out of frustration. Hit him. The mother would come in the morning or the father at morning 12 o'clock, one o'clock, pull the blanket out. And now they're only by me maybe two months. They sent me now I could show you a picture afterwards. I wish I could show everybody a picture of him at the table and his head's like on the table. And she says, "We never looked at him as sick. Now that everybody is rallying around him and taking care of him, we see how sick he's push sick." Like you're beating up someone who's sick. So most of the spiral gets pushed down by parents being told you have to have rules and consequences and boundaries and not in your house and d it and makes the kid much worse. >> Yeah. >> Push it. Why? Because it's usually trauma and it makes you feel like worthless and like nothing. And then when you express yourself in a bad way and then they pull away their love and their affection, their attention, it adds years of pain to them. It adds years. I have no homeless kids. We lost and I always say it because it's just it's not a perfect world, but we lost a handful of kids to accidental overdose. >> Yeah. >> Some of my I I would love to say they were the worst. They didn't listen. The best >> the best parents. And on their own, each one did something very unique. With the first one, they did a a they published um a documentary about twisted parenting out of >> their Mhm. >> I didn't ask him to do it. I didn't know about it. It was a surprise. They said we didn't have the ending that we wanted, but we had the journey. >> We had six years of love. Of love. Just like a cancer patient. They may not make it, but they had love. The night before she passed away because it was a bad batch of heroin that killed 10 people and she was one of them. >> The night before she was snuggling in bed with her mother with her father. She was very sick. >> She wasn't making a choice. stupid choice to to to do what she did. She was wonderful girl, wonderful, precious. Mashallah, precious parents, amazing people. And then the second one also they each did things because the second the second and the third one they did um they did by me. They came to speak to the parents and they did videos. But besides for that, it's not even 1% who's dealing with hardcore drug abuse and and um eating disorders and suicidal ideiation and all of these things. >> That's even close to a 99% success rate. Now, it's not so rosy because we do have some parents that drop out because it is hard. It's difficult. >> Now, those parents who drop out is is is they can't take the this this >> I don't know. I have about a 20% dropout rate. >> Well, whoever's coming to me already tried everything else. >> Okay, >> there are some that are saying like, you know, because the world is changing, they're like, why would I try everything else and end up by you? Let me just do this. >> Mittens, >> right? >> But most people, they already tried things. They have to come to a kind of like they have to hit rock bottom sometimes, especially if the parents are very controlling. Mhm. >> You know, I had I had a family from Muny that was such a aid of people. They never fought with their kid. They came to me to find out what to do, but they never fought with their kid. >> Right. >> Their kid was was much easier situation. Kid wasn't from okay. In order to get into me, I only work with kids who are not from. >> Mhm. >> If they have other things, then then I deal with that also. But even if it's not from, I'll I'll I'll uh I'll try to help the parents. But they never fought with their kid. And they said like, "What are you going to teach us? We love our kid. We we take care of him. We're not fighting. We're not They didn't know the secrets." And Mish within a short time he told his parents, he told his mother, he said, "You know, ma, I used to feel like I'm living in a hotel and now I feel like I have a family." >> Everybody was nice to him. Good morning, Mr. Goldberg. >> But there was no but there was no >> but they didn't understand him. There was no warmth. Yeah. was not that I understand you and you're suffering and I'm with you and I and and I got your back and I understand you and I'm sitting by the bedside while you have IV inside you and you're sick and I'm here for you and I understand so many parents are not trained to understand their kid the kid feels like nobody understands me >> right >> now what's interesting is that in physical illness is the best >> best out there >> we are made match made in heaven >> people and physical illness. >> We will get you the best doctor. >> There's no such thing as a mother saying, "Oh, I didn't realize that I can't make you this and you're allergic or I I didn't realize that you have Crohn's disease by accident. I didn't realize." No, no, no, no, no. Physical illness. We will read everything. We'll become professional. >> Everything >> has involved also. But the parents would never make a mistake. Would never make a mistake. They would learn about the disease comes over here a new disease called emotional pain and parents are sitting with the patient and they don't understand the patient. So they think all of a sudden it's teenagehood or he's lazy, she's a late bloomer, she's a late they have all these kind of words and they start pushing and pushing and threatening and and and then it pushes the kid makes the kid worse and then they start getting worse and angry and often and all of these things. It can't help. It can't help. And when it comes to emotional pain and trauma, Clerel is behind because we didn't know about this when we were kids, right? But when I was a kid, nobody asked me, "How does this make you feel?" >> Of course not. >> There was no We weren't entitled to emotions, >> right? >> We weren't entitled to have emotional pain. >> Yeah. >> And I don't know what changed, why, I don't know how, what, where. I could just tell you there's a a tremendous amount of people in real suffering and pain. All ages. All ages suffering. And you'll say, "Voose v." Our grandparents would say, You have food. You're husband. Right. You have food on the table. You have a family. Some of them are married even. You're happy. >> What? >> What? What? Depression. Get out of here. Like they couldn't understand. Anxiety. >> Right. They were not they were not >> I'm also I'm also everybody says I'm also get down sometimes. They don't understand because it's not anybody's fault. It didn't exist. >> Right. >> Certainly not like now. But people are learning. People who are intelligent are learning about trauma and abuse and learning about symptoms. >> It's a tremendous gift. What you're doing with twisted parenting is a matine. Unbelievable. What I want what is the definition in short of a good parent? >> That's that's the question. That's an excellent question. So there's so many there are so many different parts of this um first the first thing the head of the the is so he says one of the fundamental principles of is to know do not damage. Mhm. >> says, "Therefore, there are many times where the answer where the response of the parent to a problem to mis misbehavior is alasa is do nothing just to make sure that you're not going to damage nephesh >> most of us when we grew up nobody thought about nepheshed. Get out of here, call me names, smack, go home, get a smack, go to your room." And it was pretty much okay. Yeah. >> Did it do damage? Yes. Are some people damaged? Yes. But nobody died because of it. >> Probably in our generation. >> It's a different world. >> Yeah. But you know who says it's a different world? >> People think, oh, the therapists and the young people know the zakum. Mhm. >> All the zakum anybody over 90 all of the >> they saw that this >> they are the said nobody's arguing and you know Pik >> you ever see a picture of him with a big smile I never saw I never saw the most serious and he said in our dar there is no small, >> right? The gar says, "You're right." Which is the stronger arm should pull in. And sometimes you push away. >> He says, "Not anymore." >> I didn't say that. You didn't say that. Therapist didn't say and I I have it from from two from two McCyus. It was written by Talmudish and also his grandson who came to my my crisis center. I have it on video. He told it to him. He told us to he says, "But but what if what if the kid does something really whatever really crazy wrong? What should you do of thought and he said maybe one time in 70 years you should do small and then go right back to what does that mean? If you don't have you don't criticize, you don't punish. Everybody's just do whatever they want." >> Yeah. >> No. The way to be kids, you can hold them to to motivate them with but it has to be different you know like we don't have patch anymore you need hugs >> so said who's been holding my hand since the first minute when I decided to open home sweet home >> I called him to be my zim and leads him. And he said, I have a video. He said there is nothing that a patch could do that a hug cannot do. >> Yeah. >> 100 year old at that time it was 95 year old talking about hugs. Yes. The Zakanim understood our children better than the the middle of the road people 50 60 70 80 the old Zakanim all said no do you know that according to authentic Tyra authentic you're not allowed to pressure a child I was like what look at he didn't make this up this comes from the Kazan This is Tyra. He's an old man upon a bishop in Abra and he says to be to pressure is the >> every things that are you squeezing and pressure they have a reverse effect said I know people he said >> that can't din because when they were young they weren't emotionally prepared prepared ready to dav and their father forced them to davin. When you force someone to do something, it creates >> turn them away. >> Yeah. They get disgusted from it, >> right? >> They get disgusted. Kyvski writes that and he says many times it's because the parents are sadikim >> and ding to them. The imam is able to plug in and they can't stand. They're not always crazy people, bad, angry. You know, sometimes sometimes I once sat next to a guy had to move away. >> I couldn't take it. He was destroying his children. No. No. No. I was going crazy. I was like, "These kids, there's no chance for them. I was I wanted to just kidnap them." >> Yeah. >> Because he's going to kill them. >> Yeah. >> But even if it's cuz you're a Malik and you're like, "How could you not come on look inside? You're talking to Hashem." All the speeches, >> right? >> They look around. They know the he anisle. is cool wasn't interested in davining. So some people tried to like you know >> and in G I don't know if you were ever there it's very hard to to not davin you hardly have any space and it's very you know it's always a big crowd not like now but it was big then also and he said no no no dinging you have to come to on your own >> you have to feel it and you have to want it >> yeah what is it they don't even need anything they don't as soon as you need something you'll dav said give him time he'll d you want him to d said the he told the father you want your son to d you dav >> if you grow up next to a father. >> Yeah. >> That doesn't talk during daming, that doesn't smoo, he's not in the kdes club and he's going like this and he's connecting and he's really talking to God. Talking to God and he feels better afterwards. He says, you know, I was so nervous. I'm going to go dam comes back. I feel calm. It was my meditation. We have to go to meditate and and do do stuff to connect to a higher power to calm down our anxiety. Dav, >> you can do it. Yeah. Talk to the bunch. Talk to the bunch. If you can do that, right, your kid's going to die. It just unless you ruin it. >> It just penetrates the kids. They they see it. >> Now, what would you say is showing them the right way to live >> teach by example >> and not getting upset that they can't do it now >> and her I I'm very lucky and I don't want to talk about myself as everyone do this but I never got angry at my kids. >> They spoke about about like they said >> never got angry cuz >> I I don't think I'm better than them. Like a lot of times parents are so shocked when the kids are doing something wrong. I'm like, "You never did anything wrong, >> right?" >> I had I had one of my kids was walking walked into the pool with with his friend. I was in the pool with my friend. So these are our sons. >> Yeah. >> And his son had like long hair. It was in the summer. And he was wearing like a bracelet, but not a real bracelet, a high lifeline or a tala, one of these things. >> And he was he's a cool kid. And a father next to me, he says, "He's driving. I want to kill this kid. Take a haircut. What's he doing with the whatever?" And I knew this guy growing up. And I said to him, "Your hair was four times as long as you forgot what you look like. You have amnesia. Everybody all of a sudden doesn't remember that you didn't want to dav and that you came late and you weren't interested and you spaced out and all everybody. So anxiety on the kids. Chill. >> Right. >> Chill. The worst thing is >> Yeah. And what about the parents who say that um they don't want to be so friendly with the kids because they they they want I'm not your friend. You have there's a certain balance that >> we grew up we grew up parents would say it doesn't say anywhere you have to like your father. It says >> I would tell them to look at the the >> and I don't think we need to be from or better than the children they write about what it was like growing up in the house of he says he never ever made them have any pressure he never ever made them scared >> there was no mira >> there was no mira there >> there was no mira all these mothers or fathers screaming yelling You're you're you're wasting your breath. >> Okay? You're using your might, >> your strength. >> You don't raise kids like that. Didn't sit at the head of the table. Theim let his kids sit in his chair. >> It goes on and on to talk about he was raised. He says he talked to us like a friend. >> Wow. That's next level. >> It's common sense. I I don't know. You know, I think we got we think that it's gayish, you know, we think like the father is like it doesn't work anyway. Nobody's falling for that anymore. Those days are gone, >> right? >> And if we try to raise our kids the way we grew up, we'll have broken children for whatever reason. It doesn't work. But it's not authentic Tyra. It's it's like trauma parenting. It's >> abusive parenting. It's not, you know, that to treat a child with the same laws of respect and human dignity as an adult pas wouldn't wake up a kid who was sleeping in a place and he they wanted in the room. They wouldn't he wouldn't let them wake him up. >> You don't wake up somebody. >> Then as Shalom says, you're not allowed to tell a kid. And again, when I'm quoting all of these things, think about who they were. They were born before the Holocaust. >> Yeah. >> Okay. They were born before the Holocaust. They know better what Hashem expects from parents and what a Tyra parent should be. And Shalam says you're not allowed to tell a kid say go out of the room. >> Right? >> What you know how many times we were told go out of the room or somebody was like get out of the room, >> right? >> Leave the room. >> You don't talk to a child. >> Disrespectful. >> Disrespecting a ch disrespect a child. Where is this from? who was born before the war and he survived the war and rebuilt. He was considered the of the generation is his name is is is my own. >> Wow. >> And he was considered by all of the previous generation as the master especially. He wrote a beautiful safer short and it's I highly recommend it. It's just a few chapters >> beautiful. It's in English also. It's so good. It gives you your mind of what you're doing here with this kid. >> Right? >> What are you meant to do? You're meant to threaten the kid. So he says you're not going to say leave the room. You have to say could go to the other room. >> I I I saw some place that is it goes under the children. >> All of there's no reason. >> I was just talking to a parent. I said, "You know what's interesting? If anybody would treat an adult this way, a RV would treat an adult this way, he would leave. >> Yeah. Wouldn't last a minute. >> And somehow we think that because they're kids, that's what they need. No, no, no, no. Kids are little people. They have a nephesh. >> They have an emotion. And if they'd sit around, I see sometimes parents talking to kids and the kid the kid. Yeah. Imagine you being petrified. And here they're growing. They're maturing. It It's like a young tree that gets a little bend. It's going to go all the way crooked. >> It's not going to help for the for the future. >> Do not damage. You don't know what to do. What should I do? I shouldn't do anything. >> Do nothing. >> Do nothing. A guy gets hit by a car and he's lying in the street. You want to go pick him up? What does everybody say? No, no, no, no, no. You might damage him. He might become paralyzed. I should just stand here. Yeah, you should. I had a parent said I should do nothing. I said, 'Well, if your two choices are to do something that could damage your child or to do nothing, which one do you want to choose? Like, who says you have to react? You also, what I tell parents is when you're stuck, you're allowed to say, you know, I don't know right now how how to respond to this. I just know that I love you >> and we will get through this. >> Now, the next day, two days later, a week later, you want to you can you call it he'll be mabulate more. They will respect the fact that you you relax. Anything you do in that mode, first of all, anything you overdo is for sure not good. We're all going to make mistakes when we're how do you say that in English? >> Angry. >> Yeah, but it's different. >> Yeah. >> Of Americans. Just get angry. Angry, man. headache. >> When your blood pressure is high and you you right now want to murder this kid, you want to you're going to make a mistake. You're allowed to say all punishments in this house will be will be given out, distributed 3 days after the crime. And guess what? They will respect it more. You could also give choices. For one kid, going up early to bed is galic. >> Yeah, >> I go up a half an hour early. I like reading. to another kid. >> It's It's devastating. >> Yeah. >> It's not fair. You're allowed to say, "What do you think you should get for this?" You know, it's not so terrible, but what punishment did you would you want me to take away Nash? One kid will say, "Take away my Nash." Another kid will say like, "No, no, no." Cuz he gives Nash to a friend to be friend with him, to play with him. You don't know what's going on in his world, right? >> What do you care? Which punishment it is? Give choices. >> Treat him like a mench. You treat the kid like a mench. I'm talking about 5 years old, six years old, seven. they feel like you want them to feel my parents care about me >> right >> and they're being mechan >> right >> then you could decide listen we do this should we do that you know what I really love you I want you to I feel bad you know say so how about you'll help me whatever or how about you'll I don't know you come up with a way >> you know you know what the nikud is the way that we treat our children is the way Hashem treats us >> it's very Scary. It's very scary. It's brought down in this that says Hashem is our shadow. Just like here you see a shadow >> from the light. I control the shadow. >> We control Hashem. >> Wow. >> If we have kindness, Hashem gives us kindness. >> Yeah. This is in the entire life. in the entire life and especially the way that parents >> treat their children >> treat their children is the way Hashem treats his children which is you. Two people could do the same thing and one has and the other one has what it says in the writing your own destiny. You're writing your own everybody's worried kids going to take advantage of me. How would you like it? If Hashem's gonna be good to you now, you're gonna take advantage of him yet? No. No. You want to be treated a certain way? Raise your kid. You know, I don't think that anybody realizes that kids who are brought up, not with a schmata, not like, you know, I'm ashmata to you and I have to bow to you and not with spoiling, which we could talk about, but a kid who's brought up with kindness. Nobody ever lost that kid. >> No. >> I'm not talking about a car accident or a trauma accident. I'm talking about that if they're alive and everything is fine, they're going to be wonderful people. They're going to love you. I always say, remember parents, if all goes according to plan one day, they're going to be speaking at your funeral and you're going to be stuck there. You need to listen to it. So, give them a good speech. right now. You mentioned before um difficult parents, you know, who are, you know, there's all kinds of, you know, who are walking out of your crisis center as well. They get frustrated and tired. Now, there's there's a lot of talk about parents who choose their children. you know they they they choose between one and the other and that builds animosity between the kids sibling rivalry and and the jealousy and envy. Now what is your take on how apparent in prevention you're sitting at the Shabas table how important is that for children not to feel one more or less than the other? I mean there are certain things that everybody agrees is is horrible. That's one of them. Every every child is a is a is a nephesh. It's going to be an adult one day. >> Yeah. >> And we can't do anything that's obvious that it's it's horrible. Even though one kid could just be left and behaves well and listens well. It's just the pleasure. You know, some kids just behave. You know, they come home, they do their homework, they take their bath, they come to you say, "Um, bring over your thing from school." They bring it and they say it and they're cute and the other kids just struggle. >> Yeah. >> And and it's the struggle is for the parents not to, you know, not to pick and choose. The kids like >> realize that kid >> Yeah. >> needs more. >> Correct. Usually it usually it works that way. >> Needs more love, needs more patience. And for sure, every kid is required to feel that they're the favorite. If somebody grows up knowing he's not, you're damaging his life. It's very hard. It's challenging. I I really My hat goes off to pe people, you know, who have struggling kids or difficult kids. It's very hard to be a parent today in our generation. Being a parent requires so much more time, money, and effort than our parents. I I was driving the RV of my shul when I grew up in Bar Park. >> Grew up in Forest Hills. He was the roof. I asked him 50 years ago, 60 years ago, he's a Tom of a Baron Cutler. He's very I said, "My father, all the other people there, how many times did they come talking to the roof about his my children and I don't know what to do and this and that and he's going to therapy and I'm taking him here and they're costing me this and that." He was laughing. >> It's never >> even people had bad trouble. It was today there are parents that spend time, money, effort on kids running from to therapists and running to occupational therapists and running to and trying to help their kid and getting tutors and and spending money the amount especially in crisis. Like I was just telling parents this week, I said, "You spend more time, money, and effort on your kid than raising 20 kids, >> right, >> once a kid is in crisis." And and even regular kids, it's so much more work. >> Yeah. >> It's so much more work. And because the kids today have feelings and this is very hard. >> This is a a whole new level of parenting. >> Feelings. Oh my gosh. Now you have to worry how you say it. And if he says it goes like that, you're worried and it and it's real. >> And the sadikim always said the older sadikim zakanim always said yes. Beware of children's feelings. Don't take it for granted. How did they know >> 40 50 years ago how delicate >> and weak our emotional system will be in our daughter to give this instruction? It's unbelievable. >> How would you um explain to a parent who did a did their job 250%. They really >> That's a lot of percent. >> That's a lot of percent and they did it the best to their abilities and it did not turn out the way they wanted. >> Happens all the time. That happens all the time. Why would they feel like failures? Why do they blame themselves? Why is it a report card of your work? >> It's a very painful thing. Most parents come to me are the most wonderful people in the world. >> Correct. >> I don't know why the the very dysfunctional people don't come to me. Maybe they don't they're so dysfunctional. They don't know how to reach out to me or they don't know how to dial a number. I don't know why. What you're saying is you're seeing >> and and many of them have, you know, eight amazing kids and one problem. >> So if they were horrible people, they wouldn't have one problem, >> right? >> Um and even the ones who have multiples, >> they they're they're so good. >> So Rafelman, who was Zatal, who was a Tadic of the last generation, he had a T named Rabin Eisenberger. Pepin is a very I can't call him a friend because he's a godle. He really is. Yeah. >> He's tremendous godless in him. >> He came to my group several times. >> We're very close. I'm very fortunate to be so close to him. He's he's in my opinion I hardly ever I don't want to say anything bad about anybody else but he he he's such a a a wise person. But besides for that, he he's a leader. It takes a he's a leader. He's a man. And he came and one of the it's on video. People can look it up on on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, social media. A lot of stuff on there. Thousands thousands of clips. And he said that that Rifleman said that no parent should feel that they're getting a bad behavior in the kid is because of their bad parenting. >> We have no idea why Hashem does this and he should never feel guilty. The biggest sadikim had kids who went off to D. Oh, >> right. The gar talks about an how about Kuresh had a son who was in the cave with him. The gar says had a son who did the worst sins. Not going to get into it. The worst. How is that even possible? By the way, how did how did Rebi Rebias Rebi went to find him >> and he brought him back to Yiddishite? >> How did he do it? So we would think he tells him, "Do you know who your father was? Do you know who your grandfather was? You sh you shy, you low life, you he he shy the moon sh." No, no, no, no, no. As soon as he met him, he gave him You're a Rebi. Rashi says in order that he should realize what I could be >> and I should decide to be good. >> He brought him up. >> He brought him up. It's a smika program. Either you go four years to learn or you go after for four years and you do who knows what and what do you mean rebas? He's he's did the worst things. You fix the problem. It's a self-esteem issue. I don't know what happened to him but the and this is not twisted parenting an hour dur this is he called him right away rebi the way was called rebi >> why because of his level of kadusha that was so high that they called him the word rebi more than any other tana and that's what he called this this shagg whatever you want to call that's what he called him >> he didn't ask what He that's not He said you could have my title. You could have my title of rebby. >> It's unbelievable. >> So were you saying failure has no place over here? >> No. Unless if the parents made mistakes that are abusive. And I always say I hope you did because it's the easiest way to fix the problem is if the person who hurt the child is here and I can help you to fix the past. >> We mended the problem. >> Yeah, that's the best thing. But I it's very very rare. It's almost always something that happens to the child that the parents do not know about, don't know how to deal, don't understand it, don't see it. And then yes, when the spiral starts, most parents are going to make mistakes, right? >> That could even be abusive. But that's the sp the spiral already started and that's easy to fix also. But once the spiral starts and you see that at that point, it could be a slow spiral or it can be a fast one all the way down. And the number one thing that causes the explosion of the spiral to make it a million times worse is the way the parents deal with it. Out of love. Out of love. They love this kid so much. Please don't drive down the street the wrong way. Please don't go down this dropping out of school, sleeping all day, smoking weed. It's terrible. They love the kid. Maybe it's mixed in some personal emotions. Okay, we're human. But they really do mean the kid and they try to stop it and lock the door and close the door and I'm not going to give you money and fight and argue out of love. We have to be very, very, very strong and aidal and humble and to hold ourselves and to realize right now this car is sailing through stop signs and red lights. It's very dangerous. But every time we hit the brake, it spins like black ice. >> Yeah. >> If you're driving a van with your family, somebody out there and you hit black ice, if you touch that brake, it's going to be a lot worse than if you just hit something. As bad as it is, you they start you start spinning, you can kill 50 people. Once a kid is spinning feels and the s they sense not love because they don't understand that like my father doesn't like me. >> Yeah. >> My mother doesn't like me. It's a death sentence. >> Yeah. >> A friend of mine who was a struggling soul full of tattoos to show it. He went through such pain. Nobody should ever go through such pain. He was suffering so much. She would wake up in the middle of the night sweat from nightmares. He lived in an apartment and next door sometimes they would come knocking. Are you okay? From the screams >> tried to kill himself seven times. >> And one time he told me, "Avi, my parents don't like me. If my parents don't like me, that means I'm not likable." A few days later, he rammed his car into a wall >> at very very high speed >> and he was the most normal normal Gishmack. Whoever knows him knows him. Sadic of a kid. He was already 35 years old, 34 years old. So much pain. And he tells me afterwards, he was in the hospital for six months and uh I went to visit him, of course, and he says like, "What an idiot." Like, who tries to kill yourself run ramming 150 mph into a wall or whatever it was, and I forgot to take off my seatelt. So, he broke his collarbone, he broke his his his ribs, he broke his his knee, his his hip, and he was in the hospital for six months. in so much pain and the nakuda was my own parents don't like me I could explain the difference difference between like and love >> what is the difference from like and love >> so I made this up >> okay >> if you like it great if not >> sorry I made this up I don't know if it's true the way it works in the world is how do you love somebody how do you develop feelings of real love towards somebody first you like them because if you don't like them It's over, >> right? >> Then you spend time with them. You like them more. So there's like like a lot of like more like a lot a lot a lot of like a lot at the end of the road of a lot. A lot a lot a lot of like is love. >> Fine. >> And there's no way to get to love without like except for one way. Hashem made it in the Bria. When you have a child, the kid's born, you don't know him and you'll die for him, >> right? >> You love the child. that skips over the whole like process >> and you would die for this kid who wakes you up in the middle of the night and is crying and is annoying and is you're changing the diaper. You so love this kid. >> There's a love. >> There's a love there. >> There's a love and that love stays forever. In fact, that a lot of the mistakes and the the hate hate is frustrated love that the parents say, "I hate you. I wish you died." No, no, no. It's because if it was your neighbor's kid, you wouldn't care so much. Yeah. >> So they love their kid and that stays the same way that Hashem's love to us. >> It's all connected. >> Our love for our kids. That's what unconditional love is. People say, "Oh, the way to treat your child." I don't believe in that. >> I don't believe in unconditional love. Unconditional love is a fact that even if your kid is a murderer, you will. >> It's in your heart. >> Yeah. You can't stop that love. You will cry when they execute him. Even if he deserves it. Even if you call him into the police because you know where he is. Because you have to and you have to save because he goes mother's love is a mother's love >> when they do the electric thing and a chair and everybody applauds you'll also applaud and you'll cry and you'll be in pain. Why? Because the love is there and never goes away. Mother and a father. >> Yeah. >> Fine. A child who's growing up never experienced the free connection to love without like. So they only know that love is the end of like. So they don't believe that you love me if you don't like me. And therefore they feel like a a tremendous emptiness inside of their heart. They feel a lot of pain that my own parents don't love me. You could say I love you but if you don't like me means you don't love me because in their world there's no way even if they can't express it. Love is the end of like. >> So what you're saying is that they only know like. >> Right. >> And because they only know like they'll say my parents don't like me. >> Right. And if they don't like me, >> they don't love me. >> They can't love me. And a lot of them say, "And what do I care if my parents love me if they don't like who I am?" >> Yeah. >> Like this boy said, "And so many." What's the difference? How many people would cry at my levia? They don't like me that I'm alive. >> I'm here now. They don't like who I am. They're not happy with the child that Hashem gave them. And even though these kids are the most wonderful, precious nishamus, anybody dealing with kids, we realize that you look past the outer layers just like we want Hashem to look past our layers. Even though maybe it's not physical that you see it, but we have layers, layers, layers, layers. And inside we're gold. That's why a person it's like the it's like a person is in the outside gold and the inside it's it's like can get filed but further inside is gold again and we want I came up with a ver and someone told me it's not written in but an told me that said it once in a rash so has to it was once dinging and I was It's It's terrifying. You know what I'm thinking? Oh my gosh. >> Right. >> You're revealing the depths. Oh boy. This is terrible. And then I said, you know what? >> Yeah. But keep dig digging cuz under that schmutz is I want to be good. >> Under that schmutz is beautiful. So you know the outer layer, right? And then you know the inner layer o but you know the underlying the deep deep underlying you know and then I said everyone's going I said bring it on >> please but you got to get past the schmutz part and go inside and you know what you have >> purity >> where he says we say from from the depths we call outem. He says doesn't mean just a bad place you're in a bad mat or sin from deep inside of you >> even if someone is in a mat that he's not he's not going to sh and he's not ding but you should know me deep inside he's calling out to Hashem he's saying please rescue me nobody wants to be down there >> right >> so yeah you're drilling But you have to get past the but then you'll see beautiful things that I really want to be good. >> Yeah. What would you what message would you want to give to parents to know what is going on in their teen the rebellious teen's mind. There's normal teen rebellion which you know somebody somebody once sent me this this picture and it said that a guy goes into a library and he goes over to the desk he said I'm I'm looking for a book on raising teenagers and they point they said it's in the horror section. So there's regular, you have to understand teenagers, they're finding themselves, you know, the father walks with his hat down and he's able and the kid all of a sudden has hair and his hats up and he's got this. They're not little clones of us like we think that we're going to have 12 kids like a dozen donuts. Six are going to be exactly like Tati. Six are going to be exactly like mommy. No, no, no, no, no. You're going to get one who's a little too smart and one's a little bit too this and one's not enough this. And you're going to get all different kinds of people. You're going to get all different kinds of experiences. Each one is going through a system that okay, we're not going to get into because it has a lot of mile but it's difficult for some people and they're going to emerge differently. You're not going to have six and also and also rich and also and no one's going to have a stutter and one's going to have ADD and one's going to have OD and one's going to have MP3 and JFK and all going to have different stamp stamp on them. You have to realize how to raise them through this year that by forcing them to be the way the final product is going to be damages the final product. Yeah. During smears they're not going to sing. I always, you know, I look at that the picture of the Shabas table in all the books. I don't know who snapped that picture, but I never found a Shabas table that looks like it. >> You know who has it the hardest? Bal Chuva >> because this comes to Yeah. And all of a sudden they're like, "What the heck is going on over here?" I I looked at all these beautiful pictures and Shabbat and it's beautiful Shabas Gavaldig and these kids are jumping and running. Nobody's sitting there and singing. Now if you have it >> great, >> great. It's Ganeden. >> Yeah, >> it's Ghana. I have the most wonderful kids. My kids didn't like singing. Now they sing. Now they're married. And I sit there and I'm like thinking, "Oh, now they're going to watch this. Oh my gosh." >> I'm thinking I got the last laugh because now I make them I don't start as mirrors. Let them start. But when they were kids, they weren't interested, >> right? >> I don't know why. I love to sing when I was a kid. Always. They didn't. You can't think that this is, oh my gosh, this is the final product and you've got to this and you've got to this and you've got to this and you've got to this. Doesn't work like that. I'll tell you a very big yoid. I I quote everybody, you know. So, it's so beautiful. Like someone someone said like you open up raising royalty over here and you see a story from you see a story from the sarb from Ripshak from I don't I take anything that that's entire all of our beautiful. >> So it's very interesting what is parenting. So it's brought down from zats says that a parent has two jobs two one tap is give him a home and take care of him and one of don't do this punish make sure he acts like a bench in other words one is the and the love and I love you and you're so great and you're the best and one is to be and to tell them no you can't do that and you got to do this and if you're not you're going to get punished there's Right. >> Yeah. So he says that was from Briam until the Gumar's times. In the Gumar's times there was someone named Bishu Bengamla. Bengaml created a system where you send your kid to a school to a school. That Rebi is your he's doing your that you need to do 30 40 50 hours a week whatever it is. He says now you gave away that tap and now the tap of is their job on your behalf. They teach them alphase. They teach them how to behave. They teach them what to do. And there he says now the parents he wrote this maybe 4550 years ago. >> Now parents are left with tap tapad one job. >> Which one? alam aava to shower your kids with love make for them whatever they want take care of them look what he writes I quoted in here I quote the Hebrew words a lot so people could get the the richness of the Hebrew words and you can look it up >> and and then say what he's telling me now he's not saying you know there's no bedtime and there's no be normal but you don't have to be kids you have to you have to make sure and this is what I feel the job of a parent is to deliver to school the happiest child. So their mind is open to learn. >> Wow. >> That's your whole job. >> Now what I take out from this is that you're saying that these teenage kids, the the struggling kids are have no problem with Yiddish. It is always heartbreak. Is that correct? Because there are people who will say that he just wants to fry lab. He wants to uh >> I haven't found anybody that actually works with kids that says that. The people who work with kids know that that's not true. The people who are just looking outside their window, they call them uh what's it called? Armchair philosophers. >> You save a hundred kids and you'll see that they have no problem with you this kind. But it's like I said this is the only field in the world that you have some experts and 99.9% not experts and they will argue with the experts. >> Right? I've never found anybody and if you're out there please contact me who has saved let's say 10 kids who has spent a thousand hours in this and that feels differently. I was uh I once went to speak to a RV with a huge sadic Malik glance glance who's running our place which is a drop and center in Flatbush for >> for I don't know 25 years >> behind the scenes right >> he's unbelievable I could tell you a story later will blow your mind >> about him but it's not just for him it's to understand how to how to get through the wall and and it's it's such a beautiful story. But anyway, I was going with with my dear friend. We stopped off in Mansi to speak to a ruff and I was very young. You know, he was he's I look at everybody as older and more mature than me. He certainly is. And he was in it only maybe two three years more than me, but I just felt like he was in the he's in this more than me. So, I really just sat very quiet. And the RV said something about the rashim. And he jumped up. He was slamming the desk. He's the sweetest guy in the world. He says, "I'm looking for this rush already for 10 years. >> You can't find them. >> I can't find him. I keep on finding Eden." I always say, "We're not dealing with a healthy asov. We're dealing with a sickov." >> Wow. >> Somebody sent me. It's a little bit GVA, so I'm just going to say it because I think it's real. He said that the Dr. Sarno showed that not every physical problem is really a physical problem. >> His ideas about back pain is in the mind. >> Emotions. >> Emotions. Absolutely. >> And he said that me, but it's really everybody who's doing this. We proved that not every Yiddishai problem is a Yiddish guy problem. >> Correct. >> It's emotional. People get hurt in the name of Hashem for all different types of reasons that maybe would be a different podcast which I don't know if we need to discuss >> right >> without pain. I've never met somebody who abandoned the way that they grew up in for something better. Nobody thinks that, you know, I'm so smart that I'm going to drop out of school and smoke weed and or become an I. No, you have a few geniuses. It's usually the geniuses that are very philosophical and they become atheists and they talk about anti and they're proving whatever. I could tell you that in TP we have at least at least 50 who were officially not just off but atheists >> who are today none of them are atheists and many of them are >> here's the kadesh they never got any answers to their questions. >> Correct. Only more questions. They come they come to you with questions. Why was there a holocaust? Where was God in the holocaust? And they become from they still have the same I have also these questions. >> It's never about that. That's why I tell parents never send your kid to talk about Yiddishai to anybody. The guy can get up and in and speak to a thousand go and can make them bal talk about God and prove there's a god and you can't prove to y 15 years old from Williamsburg. You're missing the boat over here, >> right? >> You're missing the boat. the the people using words to be me of our kids not the ones who didn't grow up from the ones who grew up from who are in pain are using the least successful method to make them from if you just care about that happens to be that we don't have to pick Yiddish like a therapist once said put Yiddish on the back burner let's deal with the with with the health so I was teasing him I said who are you to decide to put God on a back burner he goes well they they're not capable now, but they should at least be a mench. >> I said, "Oh, guess what? >> The same reason that they can't function in Yiddishite, they can't function in gaishkite. That's why they're sleeping all day because they're in the middle of having a breakdown, right? >> It happens to be that we don't have to put anything in front of anybody because the derek of healing somebody emotionally, mentally, and spiritually is exactly the same medicine. It's connection. It's understanding, a deep understanding supplying you so you feel as taken care of as your brothers. Yes, for this kid you're lucky. All you have to do is buy a gar and for this kid, but if you're allowed to be tired to buy it, you buy it and then they feel taken care of. >> Right >> now, right? Watch what happens. [Music]