The Struggle Podcast EP18- Yossi Gestetner Business Strategist and Commentator

Let's talk about the struggles of business. Nah, you don't know how Washington works. So if you don't know how else that works. So I got up, I introduced Trump like introduce myself and deduce Trump. I can be a difficult vendor. People call me, you know, strongminded, hard-headed. This guy is can be a tough cookie. The mala is if you want someone to you want someone to tell you how amazing you are, go home to mommy. People ask me, "No, you think you're always right. Why should I take the wrong the wrong side of a debate?" You know? Yeah. He goes in with this idea of I will hustle. I'll work all night. I will do this. I will turn the world over. I'll spend money. If people want to struggle less in business, stop trying to fix what's broken. Make better what works. What are you talking about? This is selfcentered, self-serving, egoomaniacal stuff because you want to be the rich guy. You want to be the guy doing this, sponsoring that, funding that. You have a healthy wife at home. You have kids at home. What skill have you done that you that to have a wife? Kids are running around happy or sitting at school. Was there a time that you told a person close the business? It's time to close completely. Okay. My guest today here is Yosi Gishtner. Yosi Gishtner is a business strategist. Correct. Very good. I didn't want to say I didn't want to tell you before the before the session. Yeah. Uh first of all, let me start out by saying uh hello to everyone who's tuning in and of course that uh I I greatly appreciate the opportunity. Um people may sometimes assume that someone who's in the line for a long time, you know, can take things for granted. It doesn't work this way. You always got to be active. You always got to be on the go. And if you're not on the go, the world passes by without you. Correct. Nobody cares. Nobody waits around for you. Right. And so I appreciate the you reaching out and I'm I'm very very impressed with the shop that you have set up here. I think most people on camera wouldn't wouldn't understand what I'm seeing. This is truly fascinating, truly amazing. Um I think you should actually give a tour for other podcasters how to set up a room. Like you walk in and it's ready. It's no like 15 minutes slapping mics one way the other, right? Um, and I didn't want to say before the meeting how the introduction should go because I wanted to test what is my brand in his eye. So you use the term business strategy. So that's good, right? So all right. So you also wear a few hats. Yeah. You have uh you're involved in a PR company. Yeah. Um you're involved in politics a little bit. uh you publish publish uh articles and so you wear a lot of hats and um you also have a nononsense approach. It's very interesting. There's uh you have a way I read your stuff in Yiddish and in English and I see that um there's no fluff. There's no fluff. You go straight to to the point in your articles and when you talk. Um and sometimes it's not so feel good. Sometimes it's not like like you're not massaging people's backs. What you're doing is you're telling the truth and it's a very interesting it's a very interesting concept and you're a straight shooter. So I want to pick your brain. I want to pick your brain for a bunch of things. We're going to talk about business. Let's talk about the struggles of business. The struggles of business. That's what we want to do. So welcome to the struggle. Yeah. So um I I gave my introduction. Um, I'm going to walk back a little bit. As they say, Mao Viking, what's your backstory? Because I think one of the most one of the most uh popular things for people when they see someone who is successful in a certain arena or they think they're successful is they want to hear what what is that person's story? Whether it's the personal story, what what's the story in business, correct? What are certain things that they may take from that and how can they apply it to their to their own life or their own business? I greatly appreciate the fact that you again the second thing that you picked up not just the business strategist is very nononsense and the difference between a business strategist and a coach and a consultant is very simple. a business strategist who who would be the typical client. Anyone who has a business, product, service, wholesale, retail, or even a thought of a business, a plan of a business on the way up, on the way down or move sideways and wants to have an analysis where things are with the product, with the pricing, your place on the market. That's marketing. Design agency that that that does logos, that's not marketing. That's uh that's production. That's that's a tool within marketing. But there's so many things in marketing that have nothing to do with production, right? The way your your sales people talk, the sales pitch, that's part of the marketing. Your pricing is marketing. How you provide your your product, is it online? Is it is it brick and mortar? That's part of marketing. So, you also help people who are way in the middle of business. Correct. But they feel like it's not going in the right direction. Correct. And even if it goes in the right direction, sometimes people want to have someone, you know, check some blind spots. Um, as a strategist, you come in for a meeting. It's like going to an expert in Boston, getting an opinion, and moving on. Most people who walk into my office are pop or or one-time things. They come in and they may come back in a couple of months to pick my brain ahead and then move on. Right? I don't. So, that's a strategist. Uh, a consultant would be someone who does a specific service for a specific period of time. Can be an HR consultant. You have a huge business. you want to cut your overhead by 10% and they would come in for a specific time to to restructure that. You can have an IT consultant who would come in and rewire everything. That's what that's that's a consultant and those things would generally be for an extended period of time with a specific scope. And then there's a coach. A coach works with your it has nothing to do with the business strategy whatsoever from A to B. It doesn't it doesn't it doesn't necessarily push you. Maybe it doesn't push you. Maybe it tells you why why why are you pushing yourself? Maybe you don't need it. So my point is that a consultant would be a byproduct of a strategist helping guide the company what to do. Um and a coach would be has you know your your kiten of not being able to get up on time or how to delegate or how to fire people, how to hire people. Yeah, that's what a coach deals with your init challenges that have nothing to do with the business. Um, this day and age, some people have, you know, they call it consultants who come in every Monday and pop off opinions. I I think it's a waste of money because if if your business is such that you need someone every week to continue carry it in a certain direction then something is wrong with your business structure or in in in your management team either there's a position missing or roles have not been properly delegated. Um, so a strategist like myself, the way I would I would work and I work is you come and you have a meeting. Most people take my opinions and move on. Sometimes let's say if someone goes through a big transition in the business, they would want me to hold their hands for a few months, right? You walk with them. Yeah. Walk with them, but only it's a few months. It's like the the you either take a meeting, the next setup is 6 weeks or 12 weeks. And then it's like but I also do some consultancy work in the arena of PR in publicity because there's so much there's so much of a business that's outwardlooking and that's where my the the my the expertise that I bam have over the last 20 years you know I filed my first tax return in 2005 it's 2025 now and every single tax return for 20 years or 21 whatever 25 hasn't been filed yet but for 20 years is in the same arena. It's messaging, writing, marketing, it's publicity. So, it's it's it's a huge blessing phenom that I was able I say I was able that he led me to continue to to hone in a certain brand and a certain professionalism, a certain line. And I always tell people, people ask me, uh, so what's the difference between you and uh, you know, what to call marketing agencies? I I use the term that I'm a dietician. I tell you what's good for you, what isn't good for you. these restaurants these these guys are like restaurants walking what do you want to order they cater they feed you run up the bill and have a nice day right it's not hila to bismerch what they do just the opposite I coordinate sometimes with with with people because that's but not everyone needs that service and that's that's not that's not something identify what you really need what who is you and who correct my let me ask you a funny question um how important is it for a person before he starts a business he comes to He wants to sit down and you know iron things out. He has an idea. It has a couple of dollars on the side and he wants to iron out how important is your personal mental health and important let's say schulas your relationship with the children your relationship with yourself before you even start the business because I know there are some people who have a lot of problems on the side and their head is all over the place here. They have issues with the children. There's a person who before he goes into a joint venture with somebody, I know that he sends him to a professional to evaluate the person if you can be laser focused on this business. So this is before we even talk business start business. Correct. How important is that? So, so this is this is probably one of the biggest struggles in today's business. in today's business is an it's not necessarily the personal challenges that a person has at home or with a spouse or with a kids or certain let's let's even call it mental uh you know I won't call them mental issues but uh uh difficulties struggles but one of the biggest uh uh problems of today's society is that everyone thinks they're able and capable to do everything and achieve everything and therefore they start running down a path they have no business running down and any moving business that you do, even setting up this place costs thousands and thousands of dollars. So I think going into a Yasik Tetner for a hour meeting to discuss what it is that you want to do, where you're going. Yeah, correct. Yes, you're going to spend the $800, $1,000, not a lot. It's it's peanuts compared to what you're about to embark on. So of course, you want to have someone pick your brain if someone like or someone else who does. I'm not aware many people in the community do the people consultants or have marketing agencies but if that person has checked off many boxes and has checked your blind spot and things make sense then go ahead and do it but if that person has raised certain issues and challenges or realities that you haven't thought about then maybe don't do it. There's no scenario where getting outside of your bubble and outside of your own if your own idea where it's going to cost you more because any moving business and you want to you walk you want to hire someone you want to you want to rent an office you want to renovate office furniture anything's going to thousands or tens and thousands of dollars and maybe only in a quart million dollars in you'll notice you know maybe this wasn't for me. What you're saying is is that you're the best invest the first best investment out there before you even touch anything. Correct. Ideas are absolutely ideas. Absolutely. So so so often times when when again some people who understand the value that brings so you charge only $800. It's like come on. You know you have a lot of a lot of knowledge in in what moves doesn't move people in our community and beyond. so little but I say who wa so much it isn't because it you know it's not something where you need to come back the whole time right you go to the ex the the the the guy in Boston when you speak about the the multiple hats if you think about it all the hats are in the same category it's the category of shaping public opinion understanding public opinion whether it is a business strategist with the outwardlooking challenge of the so if someone comes in and talks to me and I and I identify in the discussion that the challenge of his business is is is is operations. I would send them I I try not to send but I would recommend go to someone who has more knowledge in in day-to-day operations. That's that's a that's a specific know. If someone has an issue with with um the way employees work, you know, you have 8 n 10 12 15 employees. There seems to be some redundancy or a confusion who is reliable and responsible for what. then you would want to go to someone I wouldn't uh sometimes coaches can be good in that because they they they understand everyone's missing again you need to have an understanding of business administration I bam have a degree in business administration with a focus on marketing I'm Toro so um but in terms of the the all the hats it comes down to the same of shaping public public opinion whether it is a strategist with a focus on marketing whether it is as a commentator on current events in Yiddish or in English and even in my advocacy for many years for this community under the OJack brand again what was the function that we did articles press releases videos research studies and you learned how people respond to to certain words to certain things and how you let's say you have to move people to the to the ballots and correct know because that is really moving people's minds like exactly so whether it's in business whether it's whether it's policy whether it's politics it's all about shaping and framing public opinion whether it was as a volunteer as a commentator or a business strategist. It's all in the same arena. And so the so the first thing if anyone has any thoughts people ask to run a business of course go into a business strategist and and you know see talk it out and people always ask me this question when they're in in such meetings is um do you think it's a good business idea and I always answer more or less along these lines which is most business ideas are good generally good people are creative it's fascinating the question is if you have the temperament the money and the ability to pull it off, the resilience. Correct. It isn't about if the idea is good or not. It's can you do it, right? If you are married with a few children and you have already a budget in the six-digit numbers, right? And you don't and and it's going to it's you don't have the time to build this business. So, you don't have the money to cover your bills and also put in the money in this business. What are you doing? Still a good idea, but it's just it's not for you. You can't do it. You can't do it. And you're very blunt like that. straight up what they and what happens if you did you ever find that you told the person the truth and they did not like what you had to say. So I've had situations where people literally the the the the life drained from their face in meetings. They were so convinced and so serious about it. They they up andated. No. And especially people already like a half a year into the business. They plunged already tens of thousands of hundreds of thousands of dollars. And especially if it involved their spouse or a of they were so certain, so convinced, you know, people ask me, you know, you think you're always right. Why should I take the wrong the wrong side of a debate, you know? Yeah. Okay. That's just me trolling. But but it's difficult when people when when when the bill comes due. Yeah. the I I have seen I've seen faces faces change color. Wow. And I don't think people get angry with me, but they are taken a back because again, if you go into a restaurant, the guy behind the the waiter is not going to come and say, you know, um how much how much money do you spend on food this month? You were yesterday at the other restaurant. Why why you here today? But I think you may lose some weight. I'm going to give you some. That's not the job of the wait. It is not a job at the restaurant. When someone goes to the dietitian, you start talking. What holds them accountable? I don't want to use the term holds accountable because you're an adult. You got to hold yourself accountable. I don't take accountability for whatever anyone does in the business, right? I I give my opinion. I would say take it uh you know, take it or leave it. Yeah. And that's actually the the mala, the upside of being a strategist where you pick your brain and move on. Because if a person can't stand my bluntness and my directness and it takes offense to it, move on. Have a nice day. Now there are however, as I said, I do consultancy in the arena of of the publicity, the outward part, the outward looking part of the the the line of work. It's not just a specialist in B. It's a specialist that has a room that can provide some services. I can be a difficult vendor. People people call me, you know, strong minded, hard-headed, whatever you want to call all type of shyamus nuam that this guy is can be a tough cookie. The mala is after I argue with my clients, I always tell them that as long the check clears, as long you zel in the money, I genuinely do not care if your business blows up in your face. I have nothing to lose and I have nothing to gain because if it succeeds, you're not you're not giving me a percent. You're going to take credit and if anything is wrong, you're a going to blame me. I I I really don't care. You're disconnected from the I genu I'm genuinely mis disconnected from the that person's uh I want to say that emotions it's not just I often tell people I if you want someone to you want someone to tell you how amazing you are go home to mommy right as Trump says there's places there's places for it you're not going to get it here you're not going to get it here this isend this is raw And and why is it raw? Not just because I like to shock the system as sometimes my writing is. I like I get a kick out of it. It's because I don't understand. You have money either from a father or uncle you're richer or you earned well and you're not going to throw it to the wind. You're going to put in so much time in your business in your project at the expense of your life. Right. At the expense of your life, of course. So why do you want someone to massage you for it? Why don't you want to have truth? It doesn't it doesn't maybe I'm wrong. It's not necessarily the truth. I don't say it's the truth. It's a perspective from someone outside your bubble and someone who's not sitting here trying to impress you, right? Which is very valuable. I had recently I had recently quite a fascinating development. and someone reached out to me saying that he has a certain question about uh partners because I talk business strategy and new business ideas. Often it involves partners, right? Either people want to partner up to build a business or they're fighting in the middle. I try not to get involved just I I don't call myself a mediator per se. I I tried to say if if if you think you want to work together and it's something wrong at the business and this person feels you got to put more hours or more money come and let's talk about it and those those meetings take longer than than just hour. It's usually hour 30 hour 40 and then people are you know free to do what they want. So someone reached out to me saying that he has a a certain challenge in a partnership if I am the right place to go. So, I responded with my with my default email. I have a note that I respond by. It's a default text. I sent it in. So, if that person by reading the text that I wrote and it has a couple of links to articles, whatever, if that person thinks that I'm worth his $800 to $900, $1,200 come in. If not, isn't it? I have more time for a podcast. You know what I mean? It it's it's I'm I'm not busy every day in a whole day. And even sometimes I do I'm more productive. Sometimes uh sometimes I'm not. So the person says if we can can I have a phone call to discuss it. So I said no. Yeah. But maybe after 5 minutes I'll know if you're the right person. I said I don't I can't do that. Why am I not doing that? It's for two reasons. Number one, nine out of 10 people who are not sure if I'm for them ultimately don't end up coming in. So I'm not going to waste my time on the one out of 10 or even the two out of 10. It's a waste of my time, waste of my energy. And most people who do want to come in, they they understand Yosi provides a service and there's a cost of doing business and this is peanuts compared to business. Let me go. I don't need to sell. What are we doing now? We're going to do now a show for our meeting. Like what are we doing here? Right. You're not you're not you're not making multi-month commitment now, right? And the other reason why I didn't want to. So that's that's the the one reason. And the other reason why I didn't want to talk to him was he met me at a wedding and he said, "Yo, you know, you you push me away. I didn't even know it's him." Whatever. I didn't I'm very bad with So, um, which is funny because sometimes I MC events and you lose the No, I I joke around. I look at a paper names. Um, so he asked me, "Oh, you know, you pushed me." I said, "Why did I push you away?" So, because if you spoke with me five minutes, would have come. I said, "You would have come and then what?" So I told him the same thing. And the other thing is if you have a challenge with the partner and I talk to you before the meeting, I lose the potential objectivity or even the other person's sense of me of my of me being objective. It's like at the Toyota you don't want to Yeah. But again, correct like I don't want to take any sides. I want to hear the complete correct correct entire story. Why am I saying this is on the question is that's the truth. It's not a matter of what it doesn't it's it it doesn't mean when two people would come in that the truth is with this guy or that guy. I want to have a clean board perspective, right? I don't want to talk with one partner over and before the other right because I I genuinely don't know. You want to you want to have a clear mind to really look at it from all sides. Exactly. So but again on the question so on the point is you know the truth I don't know what the truth is right in terms of you know what I mean but in terms I don't know about the truth I have perspect I give you perspective perspective from a different angle correct you're getting a perspective from someone who again going back and then you can come to a balance because you're like so much into this he says you know what maybe look at it in a different way you could come in the middle if you find that this is for you exactly 100% now let me ask you another question as far as um you know for a person before he opens up a business, you know, as a strategist. He comes to you and he says, you know what, I have this idea and and and and and how important is it for him to have a deep understanding really a deep understanding about because what happens is that he goes in with this idea of I will hustle, I'll work all night, I will do this, I will turn the world over, I'll spend money. But when he comes in he says listen with with sit down and understand that you have to make understand that you're building a vessel that a bunch should give you and should give you things will fall into place if it's meant to be you you start your business with a complete different idea you the sales is different everything is different it's like what's meant to be is meant to be it's my not saying is important so this is this is the the the the one thing that I prepared in my head for this for this uh podcast was this part of the struggle. In this society, in this day and age, everyone walks around with the assumption that they can achieve everything. Everything is for them. They can do it. It's very narcissistic, but that's how people are. And the is a big is that they wrap their around this. Wow. Not only explain it, elaborate. Correct. Not only you you asked the question of you know where does a min play a role things are so bad that people wrap their around it that if gave gave me this idea or put me on this path then it must mean so and so was how do you know just because you like to do something maybe that maybe that's something that you should do for charity what does it have to do with business and if you like something in business a certain line who says you need to do it as natural entrepreneur maybe do it as an executive for someone else. Correct. And at age 23, you don't have the experience or the knowledge uh that someone at age 30 35 has to do it. So people wrapped it. I I I think I want to do this and I it's a message from him. What what do you mean? What do you mean? How do you know? How do you you want you want you want to hear something about a message? It was in the the first Trump administration. I was in the house of a certain You actually met Trump once? Yeah, of course. 2016 I create I put together an event. How did that go? Did you feel anything? I we we'll talk about that but I want to let's focus because this is crucially I think the biggest struggle the biggest struggle in the hunting business everyone walking around people who are 5.5 are struggling to behave as if they're six foot tall and if they don't if they can behave like they're six to six six six feet they they they become angry and you know one day they wake up with the you know conquer the world and then in the next day or the next week they're oh down to zero again you're not conquering the world. You're not down to zero. You're 5.5. And that means is as you someone who's 5.5, 5.6, you should put less items on the upper cabinets. And you should also have a step stool to if you need to reach it. Don't walk around. You're going to be you're not six, you're not 5'11. It's nothing wrong with you. That's what you and this is a and this leads people into Michigan struggles. They wake up with a hump up. What are you pumping? What what what are you doing? Settle down. Easy. Easy. Settle down. Um so, so you know, people get all worked up and and for things that's that's completely outside, outside their reach and they and they think what I mean if I felt it in the college maybe sent you this way that you should learn that you can't do it or you should see the other everywhere. Who says that you got to chase it? So, at the beginning of the the first Trump administration, 2017, I wrote an email to someone very close in the Trump Orbit and and I was doing that as I was sitting in in the in the in the room of a of a of a of a of a a big roof by Cli's rule. Someone who has a big following. He's involved a lot of an activism. We were sitting there. We were we walk through the language of the email and I wrote the email and I saved it in the email in the drive not so then and he said you know let's take 10 15 minutes to think about it. Let's let's review it before you send it out. Then I went back to drafts. It wasn't there. So I asked him uh what do you think uh you know what's this what's the sim that this email uh you know that we don't have the email sim is next time make sure you save it it's very simple very simple was and since then anytime I need to write a memo I write it in a document and then I put it into an email I was saving it in a when was the why why are you building people think it's it's not a it's arrogance everything you know what does this mean it's a mut it's actually It's the height of it's what I'm saying and people are saying just the opposite I know what do you mean there's a concept if you want something you're going to get it again this is all there is a balance but if someone comes to you and he says I want to open up a business I full of anxiety he's nervous I don't know I I I I I talk with the person numbers I talk the person you know what things are or not someone walked into my office a couple of months back ready to buy off a business for a million dollars. And I walked through with him the numbers. I told him, I showed him 300,000 would be paying a premium. Wow. And he was like, "Whoa." He said, "Yeah, wow." And he had already, he's a son of a wealthy person. He had already 500,000. He had half the money ready to do it. I don't know if he bought the business or not. I don't know. I have no idea. So, and so I'm I'm not a therapist, meaning I I don't I don't officially do coaching and I'm not the either. I'm not telling you how you know when you walk in when you want to do business you got to do in the here and now and it's not and it's not there it's not the other side it's here the here and now what do you have in front of you right and so many people in this day and age because they see clips on YouTube and other social media and they read Forbes magazine the wealthy is that this young guy created that creat you know how many billionaires the world the the world has a few a few thousand what are you talking about it's like it's it's It's it's not it's it's not for it's monetary success or career success on what people view as success is not in the books for most people. Mhm. Oh, you're so pessimistic. Yeah. You're taking down people to the reality. I don't think I'm p I don't think I'm pessimistic. I think if if someone if someone has in a minute and a sense of reality that then it can no not only that the person gets to live life correct gets to live they gets to live life they're not busy giving up life and what's life life is now correct life is I I drove to Washington two weeks ago m two weeks ago I drove to Washington the from Rockland County to Washington the road is 4 hours and 20 minutes and then you need to stop right for gas and then the way back. So I parked 1:45 the afternoon. There was a meeting at the Justice Department. The meeting wasn't right away. It was 2:45 started later, whatever. And then 4:45 I I left and I drove back. That's basically being 10 hours on the road and photos of the meeting went out. It was story. So people in SH asked me and said 10 hours on the road like why didn't you go crazy? Said why would I go crazy? No, first they asked me like so with whom did you go with myself? Well, you didn't have anyone that got why 10 hours and said why not? If going to Washington is a hassle for you, you don't want to be there, right? And if you view life as always the next step, the next moment, then of course the driving is a hassle. But to me, I was in the car. I took care of some phone calls. I listened to some music. I stopped when I wanted. some of the way I closed the music and I looked around. You can be with yourself. I was genuine, as I saying. It wasn't Sometimes you have a conversation with a smart person, you talk to yourself. Yeah, exactly. Of course. What's wrong with that? But but I I was looking around. I was observing uh I was observing the the roads certain certain drivers certain drivers, they're rushing and I was thinking, you're content with who you are. I'm not saying I'm not fulfilled with your mission. You know that I'm doing what I'm doing. I'm I don't I don't want to talk about myself, although that's what we're doing here. I don't want to say I'm always content or fulfilled. That's not the point. I'm saying it's a it's a crucial achievement and it's a mid blessing if people start appreciating that life is the now. You're not driving now to Washington. I got to be in Washington. The driving itself is the life itself. Correct. the coffee in the morning or the kipka after the dvening you're not keeping them up because I got to rush to work and I got to be on right the kipka is in itself this is part of the life it's not the next thing so one way how a person can get there independent of whatever else why Jacobson whatever gives them inspiration is to understand that achieving certain heights of perceived success is not in the books for most people. And if it is in the books, it's going to happen anyway. I have done zero in my life. Nothing. There's nothing that I did this way or that way that got you where that created that for 20 years I'm in the same line. There's literally nothing. So this is you're not self-made is what you're saying. Literally notesh gave me a certain mindset, certain life experience. certain tools and gave me opportunities to use it to use it. Okay. So, what about theatlas? Oh, we got to do. So, when the struggle podcast reaches out, don't say no. Opportunity presents itself. It's workable. It's not it's not at the expense of something else. Make it happen. The way the way the way I I I look at people is that we are the when it comes to how we are how we operate we are like the puppies that get dogwalked by by our humans. Sure we have the to walk on the grass walk on the curb but we can someone who runs we can only go out when the our human takes us out. We can only go as far as we want. And when the humans said sit, we're going to sit one way or the other. That to me is much more ama and and much more gishmak to live. If it's everything it's a real ama it's it's a real you surrender, you let go and you let go. Correct. And another thing which is a struggle again especially for entrepreneurs and it's this this day and age is very popular is always you know why do I feel this or why do they feel that? You feel it. What's the point? You feel it because created the person to be happy, sad, animated, agitated, calmer, right? Maybe you feel this way because the the heat in the house is too high. You got to make it cooler. Yeah. Maybe you ate too much sugar. And even if you feel it, it's why why does every feeling need to be perfect? And again, I'm I'm far from the from the calst guy. I'm not necessarily a calm person. I get agitated quite quickly. It doesn't mean I don't have a responsibility to do certain things. Yeah. Right. You're a work in progress. It's a work in progress until you die. Yeah. Absolutely. Why you know why is it back to money and back to to struggles? Because a lot of struggles that people have in business is not the struggle of business itself. It's is the expectation of what they can or cannot. And also image is is is involved in it. You know, because we have to live up to the job. Correct. There's a certain money that we have to spend. And we were going to talk about it later. I ask people often this question. What have you have done today or yesterday to breathe? You have done you have a go-to you have a a can do attitude for your breathing. You got a 5:00 in the morning for your breathing. As long you don't sit on a sofa and eat jelly beans for 3 days, your breathing is going to be okay until says otherwise. Correct? It's that simple, right? You can't you can't breathe in gas and if you're going to go and breathe in gas because the mishagas went into your head because that's what the human wanted you to you got to do it basically. My question to you is this and to everyone, not to you, but I ask people all the time, why do you assume that when it comes to a dollar revenue or or or or money in your pocket, why do you assume that that's this is completely in your why is it here where you're so all worked up all in control? I'm not even talking about I'm not even saying now about being grateful. I haven't even touched about that. I haven't touched that. But why are you all worked up about If I do this and for the dollar and for the business, what happens? You don't do it for the breathing. Why? Have you ever seen the the the the the galaxy? How big how big the galaxy is and how small the world is in it and how small you are in it? Yeah. So you think what that everything is figured out except for your stupid dollar because you live in the United States in 2025 for your not business for your ego success a lot of money and I can cut a check and I can give an opinion about this course and about and that politician can come to my house. It's it's a self-s serving ego. has nothing with avoid has nothing with why why is the dollar why is the dollar more important to you as an achievement or of a having than the fact that you're breathing healthy on your own correct it's it's again the dollar if you think gives you you think you're bal you're not I'm talking to you talking to you if you think about because oh I did this I did that he walks into shul and uh he He doesn't talk by dinging and they shall have more money for the money. What have you done? What have you done to breathe? What have you done that your ears are working and your eyes are operating yet? You can watch me rant at you. You haven't done anything for it. So why are you out there doing this that for a dollar? And we're not talking we're not talking someone to have basic pusa. We're not talking situations where someone doesn't have literally to put food on the table and and new shoes for the kids. We're not talking about that of is real. If someone doesn't have pan, if someone can't can't provide, you feel dead inside. It's it's but we are not talking about that. We're talking about the arrogance and building the business and doom did this and achieving that. This is where you're so obsessed with with with your with your with with what are you talking about? This is selfcentered, selfserving, ego maniacal stuff because you want to be the rich guy. You want to be the guy doing this, sponsoring that, funding that. That's what it has. Wow. And many people watching this clip are sitting are sitting in an office, right? You have a small screen screen on your computer watching this. You have a healthy wife at home. You have kids at home. What skill have you done that you that to have a wife or to have everything to have and your kids are running around happy or sitting in school you have done zero for that zero but the dollar what do you mean so and and and and so so to tell me that it's a lack of a people are wrapping the I'm not judging I'm not judging I'm saying it's a push of the shoot you're missing out of life in front of you and you're wrapping your amina around it correct that's what it is unbelievable stuff unbelievable stuff and that's why I can't be coach because I'm going to be too rough on people. Yeah. So, let's talk a little bit about the background, then we'll get to 2017, the meeting with Trump. I was born in the mid 80s, one of the youngest and a quite a large family, single digit, but to the, you know, almost to the double digit. Um, I think every family has their own struggles, their own doesn't matter how things look from the outside or how it's structured. Correct. It can sometimes be a situation of uh extreme poverty which can create certain struggles that not being poor does not have. A line someone said recently a wealthy person told me recently he he he was up and down and sideways. He said yi having money isn't so good as how bad it is with it. Yeah. Okay. So when when when put things in perspective when you say you know some people put life before the money some people put money before the life but it's real it's it's not all just 2025 it's it's his info so but again it's it's so that can impact and then also if parents divorce can be can leave can can be challenging for for the children even if they don't divorce and they fight around there can be a lot of challenges and we had challenges and we had uh you know, our host of challenges like just like everyone else has and of everyone and give everyone what they need. Um, my father has a very has a very good pen and he's also a very good ortor. He speaks very well. Um, and I think that goes back a couple of generations of people from the father's side very well. Uh, people know me as someone who knows numbers, statistics, numbers. remember these things this and you have a handle on like on community like what's how many people the growth and the growth in the nobody works on those numbers in the community correct so so that that that comes from vim the from my mother's side and she was she was also very opinionated so let's say as a strategist if someone comes to you and says I want to open up a retail store in one of these kari communities lakewood uh Brooklyn you would know how many children quadrupling in this by the way so by the Unbelievable. Correct. Correct. So if you want to ask me in terms of retail, what what's the best retail business in our community is is is services for kids, services for children. Hands down. I know. I know. 60 60% of the cases population is under the age of 18. You're talking about shoes, shoes, clothing, doctor offices, uh um outings for kids, medical centers, the carriages are uh lining up around the block. Correct. Correct. So the most the most that's that's the that's the best that's the best thing. um shopping for women. There's a lot of things out there in the in the in the algaman belt where people are not necessarily they don't necessarily need it here. They don't of course people can take the children to palisades mall or whatever but it's like you call a friend, you call a family, it's like you want to go local, you don't want to be busy driving down. So that's that's a good service. So So go back to the numbers your mother that comes from so the mother side. Yeah. So jointly and both of them were opinionated. always had opinions on stuff and perspective and um I guess it spilled over to to me too and uh at age 15 I started writing letters to newspapers. Wow. With opinions about about current events and mostly it was published sometimes in Yiddish and sometimes in English. Did they Did they note that this is from a 15year-old? I don't I don't think you don't even know. No, but you just sent a letter. Yeah, I just sent a letter and it made sense and it was edited. I didn't send it right away. I slept on it. Um, most of those letters back then was was still written, but I also used to write with space. Extra space, extra line, jump line. Did you feel good when you saw it in the paper Friday? Right. Of course. Of course. Yeah. So, and then it not only did I write in Yiddish and English, I even got my my my name into secular papers, the Rockland Journal News. M so I I certainly I certainly was on a path early on to to use a pen and and and to present the message right um this was but again but I think that part of how a person wants to be led is also it's also baked in you do it in a humble way you you're taking the with you on the journey saying listen I'm going to try I'm going to do the talent is yours not mine this is the way you look I'm not so I'm not so I'm not so animated or worked up about the dollar that many people are. Maybe because I came from poverty and it never spoke to me. I see people are 75 years old and never had money or we had money and they both his father had never had a kashir. He never made it sound like we're missing something major or what other kids have because a lot of problems is that the children compare each other. They go but back then but back then in the late 80s early 90s there wasn't so much comparison. It was this was everyone and then a few people were oh they have money now it's everyone has everything everyone has money I mean everyone has the dagger of of money it was a different those 20 years things 20 30 years many things changed but it was never it wasn't like oh wow we are look at this guys it's like it was never a big Mhm. It was never it was it was nothing major. So back then back then in in 2000 2001 2002 when I was 16 17 Havat was in it second or third year one one of uh one of their early members was my one of my brother-in-laws son-in-law to to us and he had and he had a friend who was more active in a little bit in the logistics of Kavar. So they were saying, "Hey, you know, maybe we should write a press release or write an article." So I remember back then writing an article for the Blick 2002, I think it was. And I wrote a I wrote an article to to report on. Then get this, a brother of one of the people said, "You know, this this this kid understands because I presented the article very all-encompassing and a good pen." He said, "You know what? This kid has a good pen." Yeah, there's there's there things are coming up. Maybe he can help us on some campaigns. Again, it was pocket money. Yeah. Um maybe maybe he can do stuff. So, I started doing work for campaigns in 2003 already. I wasn't even 20. Okay. Was age 18, but small stuff. And what materialized in those years or what came came to be seen is as I have an understanding how to take a point, digest it and spit it out in a way where it fits into a tweet. It fits into a sound bite. Again, it was before Twitter, but people always tell me my standalone tweets, you know, you land a punch or multiple punches. It packs up a couple of punches in one tweet. It's a certain message a certain message sharpness which is crucially crucially important. Um so that's so I started out writing some literature for campaigns and after the campaign season was over it spilled into nonprofits um to write brochure or campaign mailers and then I started being involved in in the wording for ads and then I got involved in the creation of ads in the art of ads and then back then in the late O's the blogs were very popular so you needed to be busy with these online gifs. Yeah. So became involved in that. So it started moving. It it went from being an opinionated guy who writes letters to papers and then wrote something for and a brother from someone who was involved gave me some political work which took me to nonprofit work which took me to from literature to to to the wording of ads to the creation of ads to overseeing more and more and more and more. And what what happened throughout the years is in order to have a good ad, you need to understand the strategy of the business. You need to understand because when someone opens the the the ad, the headline of the ad needs to be good, right? The wording, the core message needs to be good. But the core message can only be as good as the business understands who is my client, what am I providing, where I'm providing it. And the ad needs to be in the relevant paper in the relevant platform. It does not everything not everything works. I think today they're doing these clean ads like sometimes one or two words and the entire message. Yeah. Sometimes but but yeah but that's also that also became a little bit of people like overdo it. It's before you put something crooked. I don't know who is talking. I don't know what you want. So, in order to produce a a good ad, you need to have a core message. You need to have the wording. And to have the wording, you need to have the message. The message, you need to have the strategy. So, I found myself, again, I'm taking many years and condensing it in a into a small podcast, short podcast. But I found myself being in a situation is before we do anything, tell me what's going on with your business. Correct. Again, my buson to who's your client? How are you serving? What do customers want? And at the same time I was also developing my understanding of Dasa Cool by being a commentator. I went got involved in Kavasa. I got involved in the blot and and other places. And I early on I was always available for people to give me feedback. I still have an email where people can email me. Feedback that gets you. It's where you put a finger on what people's reaction is. Must be the feedback, right? Not necessarily because because um a lot of time the feedback can be one way and four weeks later after you have repeated your point multiple times people change their opinion. Most people's feedback is based off of what they're comfortable to accept. It doesn't mean that's real. But you can sometimes like if everyone is happy with what you said or everyone is angry then the the the pool of feedback is too small. Can't be everyone is happy. Can't be everyone is angry. Especially if you do something for a while you have the experience, you have the knowledge, right? You're not an idiot, right? just makes no sense. Yeah. Um so, so throughout the years I got involved with more businesses and also on the earlier earlier in the process you you can't call me Yosi creator at the many people created what are we doing here? Hon what do you want? What are you doing? So it comes back to a strategy. Correct. It's always now if it's a business that has that says you know what we don't have an in-house uh CMO and we have this budget. Can you run it for us if you can tolerate me? Maybe. You know, so so and throughout the years um one of the type of clients that kept on coming back again and again were the political clients. Mhm. So I developed Did you give them also strategy? You're focusing on strategy. You're not so much politics. You're more into this is the crowd that you need. What are you selling to this crowd? So that that came that came over time. Meaning as the as the as the years went by and and I was involved in more and more campaigns and more and more companies, people started to give me more and more responsibilities rather than hey write something as I used to do early on used to be which direction are we going? What are we selling? And throughout the years I had I used to take on very crit very um difficult campaigns. For example um Ken Thompson I ran for Brooklyn district attorney against Joe. You do Brooklyn also? Of course. Because is is there firms in Brooklyn who do the local because there's the local election today and there's Rackland. Yeah. But you do I used to I used to do a lot of campaigns in not just Brooklyn and I used to impact Monroe in in Long Island and Five Towns whatever. Queens. Yeah, of course. Ken Thompson for example, he ran as district attorney against Joe Hines in 2013. That was a very very difficult project to pull off. So that's where I for example I was involved in they both died already you know. Yeah I think so but that's where I got involved a lot in the strategy too of how are we pushing votes in this community or how will we be keeping people who would vote for Joe to stay home because we knew every 10 people who go out and vote from the Hisha community is going to be seven out of 10 for Joe Hines. He was the incumbent and whatever. Then Rookie Fry ran for judge in Brooklyn. this fri for a woman to win a judgeship in the place was unheard of right and I I co-managed I ran the campaign yeah I co-managed I used a humble co-manage because someone else was involved manager no problem so what happened was over time people like okay this guy takes on the impossible he has an understanding of what drives people what you know what motivates what keeps so and also at the same time I I I got involved that that's when I got more and more involved in community activism where I I use the experience and the knowledge and the knowhow in the publicity world for on a communal basis. Correct. On the through the OJact. So what happened was when OJAC in in 2019 2021 wanted to be involved in policy rather than just numbers and statistics. That's when I took a step back from political campaigns because if I'm going to advocate for a policy to elected officials, how am I complaining strategist in November fighting with them? It just doesn't makes no makes no sense. So, we did that for a while. So, that's when I took a step back from from political. And also, political is very seasonal. It's boom and bust. It's not uh it's not a uh But isn't it coming around every few? You have to start working on a campaign a couple of years like Yeah, correct. Not working five minutes before. Correct. When you go into campaign, you tell them that my fee is $20,000. Okay, we'll call you in 2 months. Like, this guy's going to work for he's going to charge us per month $20,000 or 25. Let's take him for let's let's bring him in for the kill. Let's bring him in for the end and he's going to go all out, right? What I'm saying? So, yeah, there's the the main focusing on business right now is what you're saying. I'm not I'm not focusing. I I do whatever whatever comes my way in this arena. Right. So if someone has if someone has if someone has a public affairs challenge they're in the nursing home business or the real estate business they have a public affairs challenge involving involving uh the media or neighbors in a certain neighborhood I can try to guide them in a certain direction. I want to get around to what happened in 2016 the meeting with Trump. Oh okay. So he announced 10 years ago, this week, mid June 2015, the New York primary was I think May June 2016, the presidential primary. Back at the time, Trump was presented as hating Jews, this or that, whatever. I knew someone from a previous campaign going back to 2010. I had an ongoing relationship. I knew someone in the campaign. He had a very senior role. Reached out. I told him, "Hey, I have I have a good idea. We should bring Jewish community media to meet Trump to have a press conference with him. A a question and answer. Let him, you know, let him let him let him stake his case." Like, why why do we need to be filtered by this organization, this brand, that guy on TV saying this? Let him talk directly. It's New York. New York has the largest concentration of Jews and certainly visibly Jewish people than any place in the United States. Let them talk directly to them. Creative and gutsy. Yeah. They said, "You know what? Let's I'm going to call you back." So they said, "Yes, we can do it." So I said, "I have one requirement. None of this gets leaked before the event." So number one, the other requirement is that I quarterback this. Anyone who reaches out to you, you send them to me. I either run the show or I go home. I don't need 15 people in the pot. I know how to do things because that's again the path the path that I've been led on. Let me do my work. And I remember reaching out to writers and you know journalists from across Yiddish papers, online papers. The online platforms weren't so strong but they were you know coming of age at the time. And um I told them all this is totally off the record. Don't talk to this guy or that guy. People needed to give me their name and some I'm not sure if I needed the last four of the social. I don't think so. But the the legal name I needed to collect and the affiliation of the paper to make sure that's being checked because at that point I think uh whether it's own security or secret service, I don't know. And no one like no one no one spoke anything about it. Then before it and then we went to Trump Tower went on what 16th floor I don't even remember went to a big conference room before the meeting I remember meeting also Cory Luansky who he was then the cap manager I I got to know him at the time I didn't know him before that uh Trump came in came into the room and then once he was in the room that's when the the rule was that once you're in the room you can start posting that story went off like crazy like Trump meeting Everyone blew it out. Everyone blasted it out there because they had their own platforms and they had the newspaper. Everyone was, you know, and and the joke is from the first phone call until after the event was not even 48 hours. I got it done that quick. That's why I said, "Don't get on my way. Please let me do my job." Right. You were the only one who spoke from Yeah. So I got up, I introduced Trump, like introduced myself, introduced Trump. Um, I remember bringing to the meeting the art of the deal. I wanted his autograph. I forgot to I forgot to take it, but I I had the book over there at the meeting. My wife brought it along. Then he went around the table. People asked him questions and then he left the room and then it was uh, you know, then it was what it was recent. How long was that meeting? I think an hour. An hour. Was he gave you an hour? I think so. Yeah. And um, what's your impression? What's your impression seeing him the first time? First time as I'm not the last. I haven't seen him in person since the impression. He is a he's a physical presence. He's very tall. Yeah, he's very tall and he moves and he moves with with with a certain power. Again, he's now close to 80, but yeah, but he's still he's still Yeah, he's still kicking. There's no question about it. Um so that's that that was that event. Recently we organized a meeting in Washington and again Sunday night there was no zak of the meeting but Wednesday afternoon it was a great success. So I asked someone I want them that person from the administration to be in the meeting. No I'm not sure y is I'm not sure ask nah you don't know how Washington works. So if you don't know how y works get it done. Yeah. Am I humble? Not necessarily, but I'm just I'm I'm comfortable in the capabilities and the opportunity the capabilities that Akora gave me and the opportunities that come my way. You know what you bring to the table. This is those and again going back to the struggle if if people want to struggle less in business. Stop trying to fix what's broken. Make better what works. If you have a certain talent, uh a certain understanding to something, your heart schles you in a certain direction, maybe go in that direction. But going that direction doesn't mean you're going to be the entrepreneur of this big business. Maybe it can be in in a in a in in charity. Maybe it can be as an employee. But I do think people need to people shouldn't go into a line. That's another like people want to go into lines where they can make more money. It's because just because they're looking at this guy's making money or this you don't know who is your passion is not there right is that it's initially passionate interest because it's it's got you don't know which line you don't know if you're going to make money how many struggles you're going to have until you're going to earn big money and how long the money is going to last. So, how are you going to if you went into a line because of the money and then you're 12 months in and you're bleeding money, you're not going to continue in the line. If you're in this line for money and not only aren't you earning money, you're losing money, then you're going to leave this line because it doesn't give you That's what I'm saying. It's like it's it's uh it's you don't work a day in your life if you love what you're doing. Correct. So, if you're going into something just for the money, you don't like this product. You don't like to sell or you don't like Correct. But but here's but there's the caveat to that because I think a lot of people certainly the first five years of work let's say from age 20 to 25 while they shouldn't go into a line based on money I don't think they have a real understanding whether it is that they like or don't like they read this was my question I was going to ask you how does someone find that talent which means how do how can youident identify what he likes because he is like you as a strategist I'm asking coming into you and he says listen I No, I like cooking. I like food. The other person says, "No, I like sales." Or else someone likes I like the back office. I don't like to sit in front of account. How does someone find and focus on what he is good at? Would you as a strategist? Well, again, let's go back. I do business strategy and I don't necessarily coach people. I think I would be too tough, too rough on people and I would break more people than than help. Again, if you want to talk to me because height uh and and I have my own challenges. I I let myself be coached by others. It's interesting. But um liking what you do has nothing to do with business. You're going to say, "What do you mean, Yosi? You just said that you shouldn't chase money." Now, chasing money is one door that you should close. But I think in the first few years, you don't know what you like. You don't know what you're pulled to. You don't know in which setting you're good at. You don't know if you're good to work alone or to work with others. You don't know if you're good in sales or in that. You have no idea. And preferably no one should should even work to open a business before they've worked 5 years for other people. Not if you started working at age 30 when you have five kids at home. I'm saying let's say you're 19, 20, 21, work a few years for other people in this role and that role. And liking food, fine. You if you have money, go eat at a restaurant or or host a few friends for a barbecue. What does liking food have anything to do with running a business? Has literally nothing has nothing to do with running a business. I like to hear myself, but I am not I don't do a podcast, right? It's it's a world. It's a responsibility. It's it's about physique. What is liking what you have? You need to be in the arena. Be in the ring, right? Be in the ring because you need to you need to get some training on what it means holding down a job, getting criticized by by by a superior, right? smoothing over difficulty, having responsibilities, falling on your shoulder. It's not about money. It's a this or that. But and what happens is that over time you start you start seeing if if if you can filter out the chase of money, right? If you can filter out the mash of the can do, can do approach, if you let the process around you work, you will fall into that place. Except if part of your struggle of devel is not to have that blessing. Yeah. And if that's the case, you can't fight the system anyway. What do you think about these new expos that you see today, every cahila? First of all, the kahillas are like narrowing it down to them only like one of the other which is super. I just want to hear your opinion about it. And then there is some you know not affiliated ones there organic for yeah for real estate for this for that. So the question is uh what's your opinion? I mean this took off lately way more and is it break my question is if it's narrowing it down to the kaha narrowing down between higher people or not letting them go out or is it just it's it's or is just an awesome thing that was never been before and it's great for business. What is your opinion about the expo as a as a as a as as a product business show as a product is a good thing but there's a big part of it that's oversold it's overhyped. For example, there are a lot of businesses who who spend too much money on sponsoring some of these events without even getting the the something good in return. They'll spend six 10 $15,000 be sponsor for what to have your name a few times in a paper. some marketing they call it just walk through the walkthrough isn't walkthrough isn't enough because because first of all there's there there are ways where you can spread out the money more throughout the year and get more exposure and get more exposure at events nobody walks around he's sponsored that sponsored nobody cares everyone's so into hopping the next piece of the next piece of chew to the next kgle sushi then have time for who sponsored so it's money it's generally it's not bad to sponsor the pricing and the return is not a good structure um then there's also So if you're a company that you don't have a brand throughout the year, you don't spend money on your brand throughout the year, what's this one time, one day event brand going to do to you needs to be part of a part of a big picture. It's like so so that's that's another thing. Um you know sometimes I think I think spending a certain amount of money on a booth is a little bit crazy. Have a booth, have a presence. You should do it a couple of times a year. Uh you need to be out there. Is expo part of your strategy when you put together a plan for a person how to go in? No, it's different. It's it's if an ongoing client wants to come in and talk about their marketing and they tell them and they ask me, I give them it depends which was recently a client who who already agreed to sponsor a certain event and I walked them over the ledge. Tell them what are you doing? Just makes no sense. He said all right you see I I knew I should have called you and I I should have called you a week earlier whatever but was able to to get out of it. if it wasn't a contract or something. But it doesn't mean you shouldn't sponsor. It depends what it is that you do. How there's another thing. I think it's actually a good thing when companies close the business, so to speak, for one 1:00 or 2:00 at lunchtime. 1:00 and send your staff to these send the staff to the these events. Not because they're going to bring back sales. It's because it's a nice Yeah. It's just a nice gesture. It's a It's a nice give them a day off. As I wrote in a in an interview recently, I had an interview with the moment. I think I saw it. You were saying that's what I said. Yeah. Let them let them go. Not because you're going to be this big millionaire. Who cares? Let them let them go. Let them enjoy. It's a Gishmak. It's company. They get to meet people. And now if if something turns into a sale, if if a relationship gets built, so should companies participate in expose? Depends the company, depends the industry, depends where, depends how much money you're going to spend. spend on it. The the amount of energy and sometimes money that goes into a booth for the expo. If you do that and you invest it in other places of marketing and whether the time and the money, you'll get much more in return. It doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. How much energy you're going to expend on it. M now the the the thing of the to do it you know they say but all of them want nona members to to show up because if it's only no it it doesn't it doesn't have the trust so needs needs PR now all right if if it's in the RCC and I live in the neighborhood and I do go visit one one kil I went and the other I wasn't I didn't go it was two killers made made one I'll tell you I Like I said, the news it's critical and I didn't I didn't end up going and I got a lot of like what do you mean? you living in the neighborhood, so why why don't you go? And and it is my my coach told me that one of the things that I need to work on is say more yes than no, but it's sometimes difficult because it's whether it's commitments, whether it's going to events, you need to be in the mood of greeting people, smiling to people. Not that it's a pain in the neck, but I'm human. It's not I'm not disrespecting the fact that people think I'm something that I'm not. if if if it makes you sleep better at night cuz it's right it doesn't take anything of me most of the time but when people want to come in they want to greet they want to talk and they want to ask me like ask me politics or business or I'm not always I'm not always in that position and you know what as a human that's also fine why do I feel uh this way today because you went to bed late last night that's why and you didn't plan you didn't plan your week a little bit more better was the plan really so you got to be you got to be human on that part too you were mentioning before that you have a degree in business. This administration with a marketing concentration. Yeah. Now these expose they show and they're very proud of it. These cahillas and these places that they show that these young people they came out from yeshivas zero education. Um hopefully all these businesses there are very successful. Uh what's your opinion as far as do you need this degree? Do you need business school? Do you need an education? So two things. First of all, first of all, to claim that someone comes out of yeshiva and doesn't have an education is a false structure. It's a false premise because uh if someone has gone through a system or worked with a system where they need to get up and they need to behave and they need to show up and the I was about to use the term. What do you mean? They they were educated. They were educated in terms of of how to behave structure and and also and also knowledge. It's knowledge. It's not about oh it's critical thinking or not. It's not about that. It's you're using your brain. You're using your brain. You're not in the field every day from 8 years old and and looking at the moon and looking at the moon. So you have you have you have know you have education. The other thing about degree am I a fan of degrees per se? No. I think some of these some of these things are overrated but I am a fan of knowledge. Everyone is going to agree that knowledge is good. Right. Right. Knowledge is power. Knowledge is power. Now how do people get knowledge? They can get it through the book or they can get it you mean through action. The pavement. the pavement, the you know the rubber meets the road. Correct. The rubber meets the mo the road. The value of having some book knowledge is that some of the mistakes that you would do you will not do because you have the knowledge. Again, if you get stuck and you're chasing your knowledge a dream age 30 being 5.5 thinking the can do attitude is going to make you 511 I can't help you. But of course knowledge is good. If it were up to me, I think I think I would greatly encourage people who are 19, 20, 21 who they have basically gone through the yeshiva system. People at that age ready start, you know, get married and either on co half a day or they work. If they can get 60 credits in a structure that works for their for their ashka, I'm not saying run around everywhere. If they can get 60 credits in business administration, general business administration, it would help a lot of young people to be um to be successful or to increase the chance of success. There's the start of increasing the chance of success. There's no such a thing that not having knowledge puts you in the same track as having less. Doesn't mean you're going to have more money. Not necessarily. But if you're anyway going to have the same money and working less, why not why not do it? knowledge helps. Right? Now, let me ask you a question. If someone comes into you and he's in the middle of the business and he's it's it's uh you know, it's going down or whatever the case is, he's in a panic and he tells you it's the economy. How do you respond to that? A business needs to make plans for the economy going down. So, so you believe that because some people are like, "We're not accepting economy. We'll do whatever we can do." No, I do think No, I do think I do think that a struggling economy, a struggle struggle podcast. I do think a struggling economy has a real life impact on businesses. So, and that's why it's so important to have a realistic view of the economy, which is another part of why I write a lot. You're right about it. Correct. Because if people live in a lot of land about the economy, um they're going to have certain they not only will they have certain expectations in in the business if they don't reach it, they get frustrated. They may even put in money into the business that the business should not be doing now. Not I'm not I'm not giving personal financial financial advice, but now is not the time to expand. now is to fortify your coffers to make sure that when the traffic slows down because the economy is weak or certain vendors shle around with the pay that you have enough money to keep the lights open, right? And sometimes you may need to fire some people. Yeah. Because this is like firing is sometimes even more than hire is more is more important than hiring because if that person brings you down brings the business down then you got to know who to fire. Okay. a specific person bringing the business down. That happens even in a good economy. But um I think businesses can potentially it cuts both ways. Sometimes businesses hire too many people too quick and they throw around money that if it's done a little bit more, right? They have more money and sometimes even firing shouldn't have certainly shouldn't happen from one day to the next. You need to have a real assessment of you know when to fire and how to fire. It needs to be done. It needs to be done with you're not if your business has empty so it doesn't matter if it's Jewish not Jewish single mar it doesn't matter but someone gets fired from a job it it leaves an impact on them I was going to ask you about it because there's bosses who run the business like a tyrant and they also there are sometimes managers who these I'm talking about employees adults married are going home sick crying crying. They have a budget. They can't leave the job. The wife is there. There's rent. There's tuition. So, okay. So, that's the employee suffer through a job. So, that's the employer part. But let's first talk on employer job. Let's first unemploy over to the employee. So, what's the typical compensation that people get these days? I'm not talking someone who has 20 years experience. I'm not talking one year experience. What's what's the wages out there? I don't have the specific numbers, but let's say someone has 1,500, 1800 to 2,000 a week, right? to rate of 75, 85, 100,000 a year or even more. If you're a company and you think you need to fire a person now rather than a two weeks from now, it's going to cost you $4,000 more, okay? And your company can't buy this cost. Do yourself a favor, close the business. You should not on a human level as nothing with has nothing because you as a business you have no obligation to your business is a business charity come to me come to me for a check it's something else. No but even as a business if your business if you're so wound up on the last few thousand dollars that you got to hire the fire the person now rather than later or you got to fire the person without giving that person uh some send off money. Mhm. I again, maybe it's a harsh word, close the business. You're not in business. You're drowning. You're struggling. You're flailing all over the place. You're trying to blame people who shouldn't be blamed. It's your right. It's your money. But the point is when you fire someone, you got to do it. You need to give that person time to be fired. Now, if someone is a I'm going to use a harsh term, someone is a caner on the business, then even then if you got to send the person home, you can still send off with a with a few extra dollars. There's a way how to do it. Correct. And and if you think that it's the it's not worth it from the business, if you're such a successful businessman, I'm sure you give master, right? Take take off some of that money from your master math. Was there a time that you told a person, "Close the business. It's time to close completely." I never tell people to open a business. I never tell people to close a business. I never tell people to hire or to fire. I discuss, I debate, I give them perspectives. I give them some pointers on the map and go out there and do your own thing because you find that you haven't relationship that people have with their business for them to even though it's clearing, they have such a hard time because you haven't you haven't you haven't you haven't hired me to be your COO, right? You haven't COO. um you haven't uh given me a partnership in your business all these years to collect some of the benefits. I'm not going to take your up or down or sideways in the business on my shoulders for a stupid for a stupid $800, right? I'm not doing that. I'm giving you perspective. I'm giving you potential knowledge. We're looking at at different a different uh different corners. Now if someone comes back from a job where they cry again it depends what's happening at home in terms of the money finishes a pusher to walk off a job but to be abused at a job or to or to not feel because a lot of times feeling today everyone feels this I feel that you don't like that word no not because feelings don't matter it's because somehow your feelings it becomes my responsibility my obligation I think I feel this way. It took away a little bit of structure like a little bit of type. I don't even understand what you're saying. Mhm. But there's certain No, that's my truth. No, there's objective truth. Now, now is not the sun is out now. You know that, right? I don't see a z of the sun in this room. It's my truth that the sun the sun went under today. Sorry y truth is la land and I don't need to cater to your truth. I don't need to laugh in your face saying this guy's nuts in the head, right? Or this guy is crazy, this guy has delusions. I don't need to be disrespectful, be gentle, be kind, be be have have compassion for people, but I don't need to feed your mass, right? You cannot d my now. It's not even the plug. So, so I don't want to use the term someone feels in business, you can do whatever you want. But if there's real real abuse, people people need to cut it. I need to call it because the damage of hanging on to the business another day, another week is very difficult. But I would also suggest people I would suggest to people that before I'm not talking the first few years, first few years the best training is live training. This job, that job, this do some deliveries, drive a truck, it doesn't matter. Get to get to know the reality of business. But when they're settled in and they they they already in the line, they're working already 10 15 years and they want to change a job, they should go and talk with a business with a coach. I don't want a business coach. Go talk with a coach. It's going to cost some people going to cost a few hundred dollars. And some people don't have those dollars. So go to a friend. Go to a father. Go to uncle. Go to your roof and shield and tell them you're struggling in business. I want to make a change. I want to talk I want to talk with a coach about it. I do not have the $250 $400. Please give me this money. Go be a man. Get it and get it and get a little bit the Now, who should be the coach? If it's a La La Land coach, I I don't think you're going to be taking responsibility. I'm not taking responsibility, but it needs to be a coach that can say, you know what, I actually think that what's going on in the business is, you know, yeah, you should move on from this job or you shouldn't move on. Because if someone has a paycheck 75, 85, 901, 110, 120 and you have a responsibility at home, again, they shouldn't take abuse. But sometimes people may view an abusive environment in business not abusive. It's the pressures of business. I'm not I'm not saying I'm not saying there are not businessmen who are who are not, right? This absolutely happens. And if something is not my truth, it's clearcut, then of course you should you should take action to move on. And there's another thing that someone you know told me I don't know what is is. I know what works for me or doesn't work for me. Right? So it doesn't matter what you think someone isn't right. You can can you afford it? Can you now be out of a job for 6 8 12 weeks or you can't? So if you can't you need to you need to go outside of your bubble. You need to talk with someone say this is what I want to do. This is what you know what are my options g give me some thoughts and you know what sometimes the option is to be out of a job for a few weeks. and to suffer than to continue suffering at the job. But when but when you make such a decision when you have a few kids at home and you don't have extra money put away to live, go talk with a coach. Have a have a a single session with a coach and maybe follow up a week or two later because sometimes you can feel certain way and you need to have a follow-up but shouldn't be more. Not every Monday. There's not every Monday's here. You're going to the specialist in Boston maybe for a follow-up in two weeks. That's it. It works or it doesn't work and you need to make the decision. Look in the mirror and make the decision. Wow, Yosi, you give yourself off like a person who uh has self-esteem with self-confidence with us. And my final question for you is who is your role model. Interesting. Nobody don't have a role model. No, I don't. Why? Not because I have a whole but because I do think that having a role model is again trying to fit your future into a reality or a fantasy in a box that's just not there. I read a lot of books from a lot of biographies from business people, especially in in the Wall Street world. I'm fascinated by Wall Street stocks. Stocks, commodities, options. You write about it. You don't you're not vocal about it. Not a lot because people because people hear what they want to hear from you then they make mistakes in the tens of thousands of dollars and they blame you if something goes wrong even they didn't follow you and they don't send you a check when they have a good trade. So who were the big names the books? Um Peter Schwarzman, uh Ray Dalio, uh you had Simmons, someone Simmons. There was a biography about him. There's a fascinating book called um Kolkand from the Child and David Ko, the two brothers. That's not a that's that's I think authorized biography. So I I read a lot of these books just to see to see to see the the the the you know some of the struggles that people go through in business again the struggle um the the the challenges that they have the the things to take into considerations. One of the books that I don't like is the books that give you tips. Motivation that doesn't see I feel that motivation is good at the spot. You know these big motivational correct conferences. Correct. Yeah. It's good. What when you walk out of there, what do you do? Yeah. Listen, when you're tired and you got to drive another three, three hours, you want to someone to motivate you, whether a Red Bull or someone on the phone, I don't know. But uh you're not suddenly going to like the road if you don't like the road. Um so I think the mishas of having a role model looking up don't look up to anyone except for your right and uh and but to take inspiration for a day or a week or to have a knowledge to have a context uh of how to do things. I think it's good for people to be read up. I think it's good for people to live outside the outside the bubble. Now it doesn't mean that I didn't have people who helped me along the way. Right? My uh one of my aunts, she doesn't live anymore, was a teacher and she gave me a lot of English books when I was 15, 16, 17 that I improved my writing. One of my sisters helped me a lot with the writing, right? And then I took a high school diploma after Yeshiva and then and then I the degree came later. So I'm not saying you shouldn't have knowledge. I'm not saying you shouldn't look around. And I'm not saying uh but it's funny because on the one hand in the one hand I I tell people you know don't have all this big grandiose ideas you know be humble and then the other hand you ask me who's your role model? No one comes from the same place. You have your own story right? You have your own path. You're unique. You're unique. It doesn't it doesn't matter. Siblings from the same household are not the same. No, the same experience. They're not the same. They have different talents. They they had different relationships with their parents, different places in the in the in the pack, different experiences in school. Yeah. It's not it's not even the same, right? And uh that's that. Another thing that I think that people I wouldn't say they should do but I think it's it's a big big but it's it's fascinating to do is to work on maser maser but maser but people again although I like a lot maser is of the money that you have money coming into money that money gross profit gross profit doesn't because if you have a 20% tax rate that's not my money I didn't earn the money right it's the rest of the money right it's the rest of the money mass. It's not about businesses that don't have constantly. It's not a payroll that you can take. It's a it's throughout the year money. So how do So how do people So how do how should people count their master? It's not it's not money in the business. It's money that they take the payroll you on their payroll. You were saying I have no idea. If you have if you have two cars, one for the family and one for the business, um the business car you can argue is a business expense. You need to move around for business. And if you and if not you being a business, you would generally have only one car. So that car is not your personal it's not your personal expense of mass. But the first car it is if you go out for a dinner to an expensive restaurant. It has nothing with tax. It has with your own honesty and integrity of how you again if you don't want to give ma don't give m don't explain to me why you shouldn't give I don't care. Okay. Nine I'm saying if how do you work with it the same thing same thing let's say you go out for a dinner at night an expensive dinner I would I would argue and you you take along a friend I would argue let's say you spend four I don't know what people define as expensive let's say $400. Yeah. I would say from the 200 that you spent is yours. Add $20 to your master math. Wow. Because you spent now money that is actually it's your money. It's not for the business. Wow. Now if you went to Washington for business and you rented a car that's you need it. You need it for the You're saying luxury. You're saying when what you bring home, it's what you bring home. But it doesn't matter. It doesn't mean it doesn't mean to go into your personal account. Even if it's something that's legit, it's a legit business expense for tax purposes because the system lets lets you do it. But you know by you again you want to fool someone I don't care right but if you want to do it then there's also other people say oh you can give from so again if you want to go with you have you have to be your kids the sons right certainly want so that's a cost that you have that's not a cost to give it's not sudoka Now if you if you want to take this limit for your daughter and deduct it for but then you drive around in a luxury vehicle you haven't fooled the system you fooled yourself you idiot if why do you want to give mas because you believe in the blessings around m so you want to cut the system like there's you want to cut corners there but that's how I talk to people not that I berate people that destroy it I'm saying what are you doing You want to prove me something? I generally the deepest part of my heart couldn't care less if you give master or not. I couldn't care less. But if you want to know how to do it, that's the way how to be honest with yourself, right? Be honest with yourself. If you filled up gas on your car for $50 from from the business and maybe it's legit business expense, but it's it's al to your master sheet $5 your own master. Wow. That's tremendous tremendous advice. There's no two ways about it. I think I think it's crucially important and it's also important not because we need um any confirmation from different religions but giving off of self giving and growing is what fulfills a person is very difficult difficult to give and grow in yeshiva in the older age older age but when I was in the older age yes I used to hand out the supper the dinner but I used to get at time. $40 a week. It was only for dinner, like 10, 15 minutes a day to hand out the supper and whatever. $40 and I gave master off of that $40, $4 a week. That's when I started. It's an assign. It's more than an assignment. You see the money you worked so hard for, but you seen you you what you're saying is that your and everything that's going on in your life that you're grateful for, you feel I don't I don't know. You don't put it together. No, I don't do it. No, I don't I don't I don't put this is what I'm saying. I I um you know, you know, no, it's not a skill. I think I think because this is clearcut. It's clearcut and it's also it also works. What's the biggest struggle in the gel? Money, money, money, money, money. When you take away from your money, neop especially when everyone it's a ne it breaks you a little bit. Especially when everyone has all not everyone many people have the spin well you can do this you can do that you don't have and because it's all around the money it's your grain is what you say exactly exactly because everyone is so obsessed with money and I don't dislike money I don't I don't I have I haven't said once oh you think you're going to be happy with money I'm not sure it's so good with money but certainly bad without it okay let's be real about it I'm not I'm not dissing the the the possibility of of I'm not you know right but when when when there's such a when the need rule is so and their need is high right and um it's far of you can z to someone $300 two hours before this man and the person has an anu you made someone happy and because t because it's money and money and money yeah I love it because you show a different side of you, you know, the in paper and in writing and in business, you have this different approach, but on the inside, you're like so humble. Not the the the word is that you're like talking when you talk about firing, you have to watch on another person, give for another person inside of you that is I appre I appreciate the that feedback and I can be very um as you said that you start out, I can be very rough with people. It's not about it's two different things. Being real and being raw with what's real doesn't mean to be mazal in the mench doesn't mean throwing people to the side. It's two it's it's two it's two different stuff. So I want to give you a yeah to give you it should give you confidence. You should continue doing what you're doing and making this world a better place. Fine. I appreciate I appreciate the fact that I've I've given this you gave me this opportunity when you reached out first to me. I I I heard on the voice note the voice was like I said this guy has a broadcaster voice. You have a good you have a good voice. Um and one of the struggles is to run a podcast continuously is a is a is a big struggle. It's not easy. I don't know how often how often you try to have a every week I drop one. Every every week that's good. you know, not to overdo it, like not too much cuz then you get choked and also not too not too far out, but something along that, you know, something that's workable, manageable and uh you know, you you got to you got to make sure that you that you you get something out of the the Zach itself even without a secondary meaning meaning if you have a talking to people the passion is there is the doors fine. Correct. That's the approach. That's the mish approach because that's what we were saying before. If you don't like something, if you don't enjoy it, then you're just doing it for meaning you need to you need to do it for the for the I would say something else. Don't do it for the secondary outcome. Correct. Don't do it for the secondary outcome. It's like as I wrote in the moment column before P like sometimes people buy something expensive and they have it on the table and they're sitting there Friday night of night and new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new no new where's the gishmak where's the nothing's happening right cuz he went and bought something for a secondary not because let's say uh let's say that certain pieces of silver the younger generation doesn't like you need to be I think like 45 or above to appreciate silver silver it was in in in in you know maybe in Hungary Maybe it's coming from No, it's it's not I think some No, I think what changed is that we are in a disposable society. Everything's disposable. Everything comes Everything goes. But if you buy if you like the silver on the table because you think it's nice. So if you buy it, I'm going to do this and then and then what? If you're doing something for a secondary thing, if you're doing this because you want to have sponsors and earn some money, you you you can go bust very quick. But it doesn't mean you shouldn't try to get sponsors. Shouldn't do this. But The initial needs to be you know what it's a little bit the chase of getting someone in it's but when it's in and I get feedback from people and I write comments and people I have a newer people need inspiration people need motivation for maybe a rebel motivation for however much it lasts that's something and if you if you'll continue working with that not overextending yourself too much like oh you got to do and not being too hard on yourself if if a if a podcast came up a few days later you know take take life as it as it gives it to you, I think you'll uh you'll succeed. Thank you. I really appreciate it.