The Struggle Podcast EP15 Rabbi DovBer Pinson- Kabbalah

cuz I want you to explain kabola and mysticism. Okay. To the dummies. All right. What is kabala? When did it start? How do we get involved in it? And how is it helping our life? I that's a very good question. I think you have to start you have to start from all of this. There's old place after the holocaust. A lot of people this will definitely identify with this. You know the younger generation have tinyness of the older generation that you never spoke to me about feelings. Feelings. They had feelings they would die. His therapist told him that he has a god wound. You know a person loves yapshik. That should be part of your tradition. You eat yapshakes. I never had yik in my life. I can't eat yik. I've never eat it. Every celebrity went in centers. They opened it up. Sparks flying. What is that? You know where your fire? Yeah. Okay. We have here today an esteemed guest. His name is Rabbi Dove Bear Pinson. Um, Rabbi Dove Bear Pinson. Um, has wrote a lot of books. What is it? 60 books. He wrote on on which subject was it? Is it Cabala or what is it? Yiddish. Kabala. Yiddish. Kabala. And self-improvement. Self-improvement. How to apply life through the lens of Kabala. Is that what it is? Yeah. Of the of the A lot of those books I mean some of them are more on different but a lot of them are like that as well. Let's start. Yeah. Where um because this words I'll tell you what it is the audience and the listeners who are listening to this uh podcast. Well, I know that you're a tremendous and you you're aim for so many so many and you write about kabah and you write about mysticism. You write about all these things. But what I want to do is for a change. I want to take this Rabbi Pinson. Yeah. And bring you down with the feet on the ground. Okay. I'm happy to do that. I want to bring you down because I want you to explain Kabola and mysticism. Okay. To the dummies. All right. for the dummies. We're the dummies. There you go. So, so here's what I want you to start. Yeah. I mean, we know we we start by this is where the Yiddish guy, this is everything starts, but you will have a better handle of where to to start. But my my question is what is Cabala? When did it start? How do we get involved in it? And how is it helping our life to look through the lens of Kabula to navigate our life? Okay, let's start from the the last part of the question which is I would say that for today in in a 21st century modern Jew. Yeah, you call them dummies. Let's just call them the average person today the the the the access point to so you have to understand that. In other words, the cabala is a type of spiritual revelation and it all started by the BMPto. Well, the start of all, right? But you're connecting Kabula with so I want to say like this. I'll say it like this. You know, I don't know if you're probably from this age, you remember there used to be floppy discs used to be. Today they don't work anymore, right? You have then they got, you know, other types of discs and every every day there's like new type of technology. The newest spiritual technology is revelation. Mhm. So if you really want to have access to to high Jewish spirituality which and the reason why it'll be practical because it'll change your life you'll able to live with equinimity and with peace and with harmony and with joy and with dus and feeling close to us and with all the things that a person is searching for because every person is essentially every person is is either people have a lack and they're waiting they're looking to fill it and they think that they're going to fill it with things and objects and it never be filled or a person is looking that if they have a certain sense of fulfillment moment they want. They're looking for something deeper. There's a hierarchy. I don't know if you're familiar, but there's like a hierarchy of needs. Like there's a physical people have a physical need, then people have emotional needs, they have mental needs, and have spiritual needs. So this could this is a space to to fill those needs. So what you're saying is that uh for logically for a person to live his life with meaning, with fulfillment, they should better good advice is to tap in Yes. to this type of uh and mysticism. Absolutely. you're talking about, you know, is, you know, is it's not it's not a subject. You know, people think there's like there's a subject like you're going to learn, I don't know, you're going to learn Jewish philosophy. You learn it as it's a topic. You know, some people are intellectual, some people are not intellectual. It interests certain people, doesn't interest other people. It's a topic. Kabala is notus is not a topic. It's it's a way of life. It's a way of life. Yeah. But what was before? How would life how did life look before? Because we know the baltov made a revolution. Correct. Came in and he said, "You know what? We're losing people left, right, and center. I'm going to come up with this hu new concept." And yet a lot of his knockdas against it. People were very against it because, you know, it was new and this and that. And we see now what it did. I mean, so many years later, but how did life look beforeas? How how did a person live? It's um you know it's very hard for us to to understand this because we live in a very different era. So we don't understand what it means it means to live in medieval times or live in like deep Eastern Europe in the 16 1700s. But the short answer for us if we were if we were you know transported into that reality extremely depressing depressing there's no there was no life there's no there's no there's practice in other words you're doing the mitzvah and you find meaning in that but people didn't have uh nistik they didn't have the neesh to experience anything more they were worried about their survival again going back to the hierarchy of needs if you're wor if you're you know if you don't have food to put on your table. You can't be worried about feeling, you know, love. It's like no place for that. There's no place after the Holocaust, a lot of people this will definitely identify with this. You know, a lot of people that came after the war and they have, you know, the younger generation have tiny or the older generation that you never spoke to me about feelings. Well, feelings they had feelings, they would die. Anyone that had feelings survive. Yeah. So, there was survival mode. In survival mode, you don't think about feelings, right? So the the 16 1700s in middle in middle of Ukraine and Russia, Poland, it was it was dark times. It was it was uh it was survival, right? Um the BMP is really a taste of the future because BMP came along and that's what I want to say. It's not a philosophy. It's it's a way of life gave is light. Light means a person feels a person feels open and expansive. And the BMP is not a philosophy in a way that it's it's cerebral and it's it's intellectual. It's it's supposed to affect you if you do this correctly. You're supposed to walk down the street a different way. You're supposed to be in this world physically in a different way. You're supposed to do business in a different way. You're supposed to be with your spouses in a different way. You're supposed to emotionally be your entire life has changed completely different if you're if you're into Yes. not but again not as information you know. I'll tell you an interesting story which is very important and very appropo you know the the mid was a very famous and he's a very famous person before he became a of the but um he was first of all he was sickly physically he was sickly and it seems like on the of the he has like he was a little down that was his personality also intellectuals are it's like it's it's usually consistent people that love thoughts are usually very detached from that and that's so the ma is a very cerebral very big intellectual and he heard about the balm so he came to bashem he wanted he wanted to experience you know he heard there's a new big teacher in the world and a big big gra so he comes to m and he was there for shabas he wasn't impressed okay heard he was a big person he didn't didn't impress but shabas he was already sitting ready to leave and he was sitting outside the bashm's home and uh the Toldst it was the tallest walks by and and sees he sees this younger man sitting there. He said, "What's what's going on?" He says, "I came here to get something. I didn't get it. I'm leaving." But he looked down. So the tallest walked into the Mashem's room and started like walking around. Didn't tell him directly, started saying, "Someone sitting there, that's a little depressed. How come you don't give him a little light?" She said, "Okay, bring him in." So he called him the mag. And the mag said that she said, "I'm leaving. It's nice meeting you, but I have nothing to do with you." So the BM said maybe ask me a question. So before you leave this ask me question. He says actually I do have a question. And he he showed him that he found a steer in the zoy like a contradiction took place in the zoy. He says maybe you'll have an answer to this. Sov went into like a trance went into like a deep state and he started talking and the mag describes this. He says when started talking he wasn't giving information anymore. He said when he said the word angel the room was filled with he said he felt he gave him a spiritual experience of what these things he said then he became which is to was experiential we're not looking for more information it's not another idea if you can't experience or whatever that level is if if you know and atilus is to say a very liked a very practical language if you If you d if you're davening or for that matter davening is like a holy thing but even if you're doing business or you're you're walking in the street and your mind is scattered and while you're trying to think one thing other things fall into your head that's not that's the opposite because it's clipped it means that the mind is not clear you know whatus is clarity full focus full focus when I can be fully present and what I'm doing right now and I'm having conversations with you and I'm not thinking about you look like someone else that's That's means absolute presence and clarity of mind. So where do you use by doning every moment right? Your entire life has to be with you say I'm living with means that I'm always I'm always present. I'm always wherever I'm with I want to be there fully. When you say present you mean with with the teachings of of Yeah. I mean present. Present means first of all I want to be present with the presence. Right. Right. I want and I want to be present with with with with you know how do I know how do I find their love you know it's it's a nice word you know where you find love where wherever you let him in wherever you are right right letting in that's already experience of it if I'm having a conversation with you right so in this is a funny this is the way would phrase it that yeah which means whenever there's love and there's focus this that's what they're going to arrest right so if I'm having a conversation with someone you know you walk into somebody's home just to give you an example of this let's say you walk into someone's home and this couple were fighting you don't know that they're fighting you walk into the room 20 minutes later and you walk in this doesn't feel right there's like a tension in the air it's not physical they're looking at each other you feel it right then you walk into the home it's a right why because they love each other you feel the over there you feel the everyone say you really feel the yeah you do you No, is a is a is something that's very tangible. The tangible feeling when you meet somebody and you feel the presence. It means a person is present and focused and loving and giving and not judgmental and and and how how does a person come to that level is also again by believing by so you have to so that's we started the conversation actually like this we have to change our lens that's that's really we have to change lenses it's it's bringing in the in your life. Yeah. Yeah, but how do you do that? You can't look what you're saying changing the lens is because I'll tell you it's a very funny thing. I speak to some people and this guy mentioned to me that uh he went to his therapist. He's having problems and he's talking to his therapist and uh his therapist told him that he has a god wound. That's what that's the the phrase that he used. That means that the god that you were represented to all these years was uh was not in the the nicest light. He's like the the boogeyman, you know. Yeah. So she he was trying to say that uh he told him that you're dealing with your god wound and you need to change that lens. Yeah. I mean you know the there's a famous story with the badich once told once a and he says the god of the zuc don't believe in this. You don't believe I don't we don't believe in the same thing. That's a different god. Yeah. We both don't believe in that god. What do you say to a uh person who says like this? They don't like what they were told. You know, how they the that was catered to them. Um they're looking for something. They're mvakish and they go around and they uh someone tells them there's a different god. There's not a god that you were told there's a beautiful god that loves you. And of course, you know, it's not just love. Yeah. It's not love by the mushroom is not a van. This is a whole relationship. But by the way, if you really have loved someone, you really expect something from them. Of course, it's a it's a Yeah, it's like a regular relationship that you have. And how does he how does he know that this is, you know, if he is undoing whatever he was told, how does he know that this is the right? He's like, he's like, I don't believe in anything. I I that's a very good question. I think you have to start, you have to start from alabes. Ah what is olive base? So the olive base again if you want to talk about the olive and right. So you want to get to the olive first you have to get the olive base of believing in the bunch. So that's you start from I would say that you start I would say pick up pick up of read it like you never like with with no with no not don't listen to anybody read it on your own and that will show you a love it it'll open you up to something that's that's that's beyond and uh and you'll start from there. But you have you have to take you have to take the text. That's why I'm saying that's why the screen because we interpret the world through a certain lens and that's that's no matter what we have everyone has a lens. But you said something very important. We look at the world and the way we look at it not the facts. Is that what it is? Yeah. Or well fact is a big word but but I'm saying there's a certain we want to put on the most clean transparent holy loving lens possible. You you want to do it as a positive person. If if you were taught till now negativity, you want to at least try the positivity and see if it works for you. not just say I I'm throwing out the baby with a bad I don't I don't I I I honestly believe in him and deep in my heart that anyone that's exposed properly to I know there's religious trauma with also I hear this from a lot of that they can't open certain because it was rammed down their throat as if it's like and this is what it means but let me ask you a question does that you're talking about the we'll get into a minute does it look like the cassidas that we know today. You mean in practice? Yeah. I mean what you see, you know, cahillas and communities and organizations and and I I feel that could turn it's a very complicated question you're asking because on a simple level I won't say of course it's different and that so this this is this is a big question because it's the world of ideas and then ideas become movements. Correct. So this is like a big psychological question that a lot of theorists have dealt with like what happens when pure ideas are lived. Wow. So when pure ideas are lived it becomes a community. Community becomes already doctrine. Doctrine becomes dogma. Wow. So that's that's the inevitability. That's almost like the dark side of because they look at it as uh listen in order to hold this community together there's got to be rules and regulations. Correct. And I'm not I can't ruin this business. So, so you're telling me very nice things, but I still have a school and I still have a I get it. I get it. And people fall out from this because they they don't relate. I agree. So, I I agree on one level that's like a very that's like the projection, the inevitable negative projection of any movement major major movement starts off as a pure idea, but then it has to be lived. Once it lived, it becomes constitutionalized. It becomes dogma and becomes doctrine. That's unfortunate. And that's why even you'll see there's always revolutions within the evolving of like there's and then there's a revolution there's a revolution the things are constantly evolving that's that's one level on the other hand there is there is something which is important which is the idea of that there's the collective of the collective has kadusha has everyone who was at hari is what you're saying not individuals individuals Not so much. I talk about the collective the the the sib mees mea there's idea like the sour of kalisurel is holy I don't want to get into specifics of different types of communities but there's beauty in all these things as well. kidding that even though the there is maybe it doesn't shine with the beauty of maybe it's too judgmental and maybe maybe everybody has their own has their own thing but as as of there's a lot of beauty and love and and connections and stuck there's a lot of beautiful things that happen because of this right so even though the ideals become constitutionalized and dogma and etc there's still there's still something tremendous beauty. Yeah. Tremendous amount of beauty and and and even if people don't feel comfortable and they feel like they have to leave because it's too strong, they they still going to feel certain type of connection to this and they should always and a person you know like the ultimate journey is to leave and be in the same place at the same time. You go from your from your place but recognize that you're coming from that place. So and and that's that there's beauty to be held in in that idea. M but um what's interesting is I think as we're talking this conversation which is kind of a fascinating phenomenon in in in the in the world Jewish world in general which is the first time in Jewish history from the from the time of the where you have multiple Jewish communities and kilas coming together living in the same proximity in the same area. M this hasn't happened ever. Mhm. So this has two there's two sides to this. What happens? One is that when you have different killers in different communities, let's say in let's say in Ashkanazi communities will be more simplified. So you have let's say Hungarian Jews and Russian Jews coming to live in the same the same block in the same area. It's a recipe for two things. Either for disaster because very simply um Yiddish is practiced a little different. Every place has their own way of practicing Yiddish, right? and their own. Everyone has their own and but when you live down the block especially if you're a for person and the other guy does more than you. So what do you do? You take on his hummus. The other person takes on the other hummus. And what you get is this because no one wants to be the make right. But because this guy is I never did. I come from Russia. That was not a in Russia. But now this guy comes from Hungary. This is so Hungarian takes to Russians. Russia takes the Hungarian. And then it becomes and becomes very very on unlight. And you know the was very mak not not against anyways. So that's like the the the negative side. The other side like the positive side of this uh you know kibut golius right is that um people are open now for the first time to new ideas because they're forced to see that the way they were raised maybe and the certain you know community they came from and there's again there's beauty in there and there's holiness and everything but there's other ideas that actually maybe express things a little bit differently and that gives people an opportunity And this is why it's such a it gives them an opportunity to to be. Yeah. And they can actually see that there's other people doing things differently and maybe I should learn from that, learn from here, learn this form, that's for like open the person to be that which is actually a big um big that we're living in this generation. What about and all these that's that's why there's always this tension that's there's always a tension between you know I would say giving up something generation. So, so I this this is a very good question. You're actually actually this is a very important question. I think a lot of from Jews especially from are dealing with this issue is I personally think you'd have to give your up your messiah ever. Your messiah is your messiah. Messiah is not your lens. Your messiah is your way of practice. You know a person loves yik that should be part of your tradition to eat yik. I never had yik in my life. I can't eat yik. I would never eat it. But some people some people this is part of your messiah celebrate it. This is who you come from if it's not working for you intellectually and emotionally and physically and there's something wrong. So then open up your mind to other ideas because because the idea is you don't want to become depressed or you don't want to feel that you're not productive. You don't want to feel that you're not growing. Sure. What's the whole point of what the point of correct if it doesn't make you shine? Yeah. Exactly. Do this is to make you shine and find it wherever you're going to find. Doesn't mean you have to leave your m but don't forget to if you're whatever do your thing do it well but open your mind to feel some wherever you going to find the find. Excellent. Now back to kabala. So the superto and what is we know invas like a phys like a real I want to understand where when who who who came together with this and and who who you know in we don't understand Gilgamas this you're asking a lot of big questions I I could you want this could be like a history course if you want okay we want to understand a little bit on you know a little a tip of the iceberg at least to know we hear this thing you see I'll tell you where I hear Yeah. Um if something's going is going through a very hard time and you know and sometimes we see this um a child comes into this world and two years later we hear in something happened to the child. Yeah. So one of the ways how we were taught uh a ye to think is you know what this child had a mission over here for two years to come down and the child came and you were the to be the father of this child and the day came you did your the child did his it just gives you peace. He gives you you can go through the the the the worst of the worst living with this concept of of of this is not the first time we are here re you know but we don't we're not without feet on the ground this is these are people we're talking to people who are like I this is you know the concept of this is my child this is me and this is I love this child and I you know of course we don't want to these children are not machines and these children are not here to serve But if you someone comes to you and tells you you know this was this was this could be this was a gilgal this you don't know what happened in previous life we what does that mean? M okay so you're asking really two questions to break it down one is the history of K cabala correct a little bit and one is this idea of this um of reincarnation so let's let's say like this that kabala is basically in a very simplified version is the um the spiritual theology theology is like the the the philosophy if you wish of that means when there was which is what we should do the law and then there's the the deeper reason for the law and that's a messiah that's that's and and what we experienced for the most part was actually the spirituality we didn't you know the physicality the the vas was given over time later later in other words it was it was articulated much over over time but the original is the spirituality so so the the spirituality to the say in a very simple language the spirit this the Jewish spirituality of Torah is kabala now the word kabalib was not used to be honest this is new this is relatively Cabal is like a 800 year old word. It's in 1200s. It's who are the major giants who got together and okay so so okay good question. So um the f for the first you first of all the the uh it was the times of right so the gimmor says that there was that means there was double the amount of which is a million point.2 right and the the says it was actually for every man prophet there was a prophetus which was a woman. Wow. So there's two and a half million prophets in a short period of time of 500 years. If you do the math, there were not that many Jews in the world at that time. There was there was no 200 there was no there was maybe 10 million people in the entire world. So you're talking about a very short period of time which is that and there were how system of prophecy there was banana which means if you went into the times of B of English and you went into yeshiva what were you learning? You were learning prophecy that was yeshiva. There's no gimmarishna. There was certain oral traditions messiah but what you were sitting and learning was how to receive prophecy. Mhm. So, so the the the main theology, the main philosophy of Yiddish was always a spiritual philosophy. Ba sheni came along. That's when there's emergence of of that's when you have the zugas, then you have kazal, then you have gimmor. And that continued for a long period of time. And at that period of time, a lot of the mystical spiritual traditions of Yiddish went into like to private like Ms. The Messiah became more privatized, which means only scholars and people that are very involved. But am like we said before it's a hierarchy of needs. Most people didn't need this type of they needed just to know what to do how to do it. If they had problems they asked their off they asked to go. That was the whole that was the whole conversation. Most people were simplified. The the beginning of the emergence which we call cabala is happens during the time of sagor. He's the a of cabala. Who's sagar? This is eyes of the blind. He's from Provence which is the south of of France and he's a son of the rivet the famous rivet of on he was the first person to speak after almost a thousand years 2,000 years to speak cabalistic ideas spiritual ideas like reincarnation etc things like this openly and he went to Gona which is in in Spain and there he had three primary Israel Aaria and the Ramban who's famous So the Ramban is the first one to to write openly. He was the first one to teach is and then the first one to actually write was the Ramban. So the Ramban if you look in the Ramban the Raan always says but he doesn't give the Zar was not yet published then they didn't know yet about the so which is an earlier text 1100s and there was uh there was other than that there was traditions ms but nothing was printed in the year 1290. I'm just giving you a little history. Yeah, that's when uh that that's when um Leon published start publishing the and and it was a tribute to Mhm. So he's saying that this is an older tradition older Messiah which was given over from teacher to student was never written down or was written down there was little edits but it was never written down as a full book and Leon started and of started putting out this the that's when the Zar started becoming very popular in the 1300s the 1400s and then the real explosion of these ideas this is just a very broad history is the 1500s in the 1500s is after the expulsion of Spain So Jews of 1492 were exposed in Spain. A lot of the great of Spain ended up in the Ottoman Empire if you're familiar Jewish history and the Ottoman Emperor controlled a large swat of land including so a lot of them ended up in Swas like very famous migrushard like uh there are so he's averos and the bio and the mid that's why they all ended up became the center that became the center right so that's when Cabala really became main I want to call mainstream right and then of course Larzo lived right after that also yeah also in was a little younger he took over and he became the main and then all cabala follows the was entire kalia from every angle um on this bandwagon this is a very a very good question it's a very good question so the answer is 90% 90% what about the 10% there were 10% so Who are these people? You want to know the names? Um there were there were there are 10% of people that um that uh there was a very big divide in the 12300s there was a famous controversy very famous controversy in Jewish history which is the called the Rambam controversy. is kind of controversy. What's the controversy? The Ram was the first one to explain the toy logically, right? He gave out this cipher mo, right? But this the same time. So right before Rama lived was a little before like 50 years before Raan, right? So when the Ram published the cypher, the safer was accepted universally right away, but he started this was a little more controversial. And then when he put there became a whole bunch of Jewish great I mean great people who became very rationalistic and the became a divide between the rationalists and the mystics between the and the right this was a huge divide. The Ramban was a sort of like a hybrid between the two. The Ramban actually was a philosopher also Makabul and he was the one that brought Kabala much more stronger. He push he pushed the the tide towards Kabala and then all the Raman the Rajb and then eventually and all these Raman they pushed Kabal and became it became mainstream. There was always a 10% of uh of opposition opposition to Kabal. Yes, there was because the Rambam was controversial to begin with. No, he always there were people who were like the Rambam was um Baitto. Yes, he was controversial. Um, not because of his his his writings in that was not so much the issue. Some people did have a little issue with that, but that that was the main issue. The main issue was safe for Raada and and the inab is is so but I just want to say history proved that this is a very important thing. This is important to understand and actually related to something I said before there's something that's called the collective unconscious of right the collective unconscious of Kalisol is prophetic. How do we know if a text is part of the canoniz part of the messiah? I let's say I said I write something right. Is it is it a nice idea? It makes you feel good or how do I know? How does I don't know? How do we know? How do we know if the safer is good or not? And the answer is time. Kalisol accepts something over a long period of time that become that that's only proof because Kalisol has a has a has a good nose. Exactly. So today the Rambam is exactly every there's no one there's no one so that alone is what you're saying is that is the proof in the pudding. Yeah exactly. So you want to say the bisman was there was a big yes there was a big controversy but history proved that the Rambam was kadesh and he was kadesh amazing amazing so kabala is is one giving over to the other that's the actual tie means received. Yeah. received. So it means one is giving to the other. So again originally it was very private and it was it was a private it was only for special because they even say that the zoya you shouldn't look into it before age. What does that have to do that's another that's another controversy that had to do with chapets. So that because because in there were periods of time he used it used. uh it's not only they use it the whole reason why chakatu became very popular is because there were there were parts of Italy there parts of certain parts of in their persecution they didn't allow for to be printed for certain parts of history so if there's nothing if there's no gimmar what you learn so they start people started learning the zor only they only learn they sat in bor um especially in Italy in certain pockets of Italy zor became very popular the the the students of shapiti shapiti himself was a schizophrenic madman but he was brilliant is very charismatic but his students use pieces of the zoyer which the zoyer is a very elastic text it's very metaphorical and if you don't have feet on the ground you can translate in many different ways there were even laval Christians that became Christian they use to put isn't I think this cabala centers in California became very popular in Hollywood no it's like very yeah not that not that it slowed down a little bit yeah but it used to be at one point in time every celebrity went in couple centers they opened up Why was that? Because they were searching for something. Uh very simple answer. Uh it's it's it's more than actually. I actually think for I actually know I know I know this very well. I know I know them. I know discover. It's non-Jews wanting to know what Jews are doing. Has nothing to do with Kabala. Uh they just wanted to get a they wanted to figure out what's going on in the inside. Yeah. I think how they're thinking. Yeah. I think Jews Jews are fascinating to the world, right? Jews are are are the most successful minority in history. It was a great insight. It's like a class you can't walk in if you're a non-Jew. You can't walk into the Shaw. They'll throw out. But imagine makes it center says you can walk in now and study what Jews are studying. You know in Korea they're studying Yumra. Yeah. Because people are fascinating how it doesn't make any sense. I mean people don't understand it's really it's Hashem. I mean this is a little more than just just this intellect. But people are looking at these people and saying how do you how do you survive for thousands of years? You're you're you're tiny little amount amount of people and you're making the most noise in the world. Right. How do you do this? What's the secret secret sauce? What's the secret sauce? So people are thinking maybe it's Kabad, maybe it's Kamar. Maybe this was a fad. It was a popular fad. Unfortunately, uh but that the fad unfortunately went disappeared a little bit. But I still think that um the world Yeah. is waiting for Jews to to speak up and to say to say what we believe in. I think the world needs us. The world needs. In one word, if you could if you could describe um how does kabala help a person if you um implement kabala in your life, you're living with this atilus, right? And you live, we'll talk about gilum in a second. How does that um how does a person benefit from that? So, you know, every single experience, I'll say it a little different. Every single experience that we have, there's multiple layers how you can experience it. Kabalais is the is the deepest way I can experience every single experience in life. Wow. This is this is physical and and spiritual everything everything it enhances your life everything if it's the truth it has to be it has to seep into and has to permeate every single aspect of your life. So give me an example of a person who is going through uh an episode and he applies Kabala to his life. You're saying, but I'm saying that that idea. Give me a specific thing. Let's say a person is um let's say a person is uh hiking. Yeah. Okay. It's a physical act you're doing. Um physically you're moving. So that that's that's you know you're physically active. And uh and then you can start thinking about this like what what is what am I actually doing now? Like what's what's the process that's that's happening? What I'm doing in your body? In my body. My body is this one organism. Yeah, it's a machine that it's a m and everything is working in in parts are going in directions and even though I'm not really conscious of my feet is walking everything's everything is my brain sends messages and there's a nerve system that's everything is interconnected and then I realized that that it's not only interconnectivity between me and my and my body but actually things that I'm stepping on there on on an atomic level. We're actually all interconnected. If I push down on this stone, it's going to have an effect that pushes the next stone and have have a butterfly effect throughout the entire world and it'll change the the weather in China. And I recognize that the whole ecosystem, if I can actually start living this way, my walk just physically taking a hike, it's not just taking a hike up to I'm going up the mountain, it's I'm actually I'm participating in the great unfolding of life right now. What I'm now that I'm walking. So you're connecting to Hashem is what you're saying. What's by his abundance by thinking about by my connecting to this I recognize the Hashem that's expressed in the entire gra of the world. Yeah. Within everything right so I'm connecting with Hashem with with with the right within everything and that gives me life and then and then I'm tired also. And you also are uh a lot of gratitude comes with that. Yes. Of course everything there's a lot of uh this a lot of components. It change it changes your hike. It changes that's what I say it's it's it's a way of being in this world. Yeah. You ever this there's just a different way of being where a person is grateful lives with plenty lives with abundance lives with with self-confidence lives with with connectivity lives you know so many so so much of life is we we we have mechanical interactions. You know mechanical interactions is mechanical actions is is an I and a thou. It's like I and it. I I need some something from you, you need something from me. So I'm just interacting with you. But when you recognize that there is this is a this is a big beautiful tapestry that created and is the the the the the vibrancy that exists within everything. So when I'm just having a connection relationship interaction with you I'm actually having interaction with with I'm always having an interaction with it's a tremendous awareness. That's what it is. It's a 24-hour uh whatever you do and extreme awareness of their little you move your fingers every single every when a person interacts with somebody right if I interact with you in a very mechanical way then I'm just looking to get something from you you're looking to get something right and then by the way this translates also how we look at the world then we walk the world and we think the world is very cold and mechanical the world is a war it's against war it's exactly and there's no real connection the more we live with Right. The more I recognize that this is the this is like Hashem's glove. Right. Right. And this is like the the way Hashem is expressing himself in in this through this. So if I'm having interaction with you, where am I walking in the street? I'm really talking to Hashem. Right. So the world becomes alive. And if the world becomes alive, then I have not impersonal cold interaction and different interactions, but everything becomes alive and the world starts responding that way. Right? Because if you inter if you act in the world that it's alive, to to you know I was speaking to someone got two days ago he's he's a very like important uh in in in a certain world not not yet a from Jew but a very important Jew in in in other ways um so he said that asked what's your secret thing like what's in this room he says I believe in magic I and I said so what's magic to you he says magic to me means that Hashem is every everything and everywhere I said that's that's That's 36. That's Kabal. You got it. That's the point. The moment you read you you know I I was once by a doctor. It's a it's a funny story but I'll tell you it's cute. I told it to him. So I remind the story. I was by once by a doctor. He has a he's a he's a multa he has a huge uh office with many many doctors. So he was sitting talking to him. So I asked him you know you have a big practice. How do you choose your doctors? Like what's the what's the criteria that you check the medical records? How do you how do you choose who work in your office? He said, 'I check all that the background to make sure they're good doctors. But the I asked him only one question. I said, ' Do you believe in magic? And if the if the if the if the person says, I believe in magic, I hire him. If he says, what what are you talking about? I'm I'm a scientist. I do say, you know, my doctor. The moment we leave a magic, magic, what's magic? Magic means that the world is not mechanical, right? There's a there's an aliveness. The the the the is is is is pulsating throughout creation every moment. Nothing is important more than the naked eye can see is what you're saying. Not this this this is just these are really this is this is teaming with life right and the more I recognize team with life there's nothing nothing is nothing stops me everything's possible miracles is always is always a possible I never I never give up I never say it's impossible right everything and that's the way and and it's not only just a mindset but that's the way world starts responding to you right you why why why why you gifted why do you have all these brahas in your life because you believe in braha you become the braha you actually uh you you you you attract this energy. Correct. Yeah. And if not, you shut the opposite. No, you attract the opposite. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So that you're saying what is you want to live this world, you want to go through life that is mechanical and cold and indifferent and and and natural and it's and it's and it's not working. Yeah. And it's sad and it's depressing and it's that's why people they shut their feelings off. We spoke about it before. Correct. They shut their feelings off because they they don't they look at life like they project. They look at life the way they see it from their own view. Correct. Not from a but you got you got to be humble enough to let in some other ideas also in your life. They have what they really need to get them out of this this funk out of this this clipper really. They really need a they need like a a friend or they need to buy they need to get somebody that can actually look at them correctly. Correct. You you're talking about love now. Yeah. Because you just people are missing this part of of someone being guessing. Being seen that's what Yeah. You know I I tell you this there was a guy that we had a in bar park for years learning like deep deep ideas and there's one real big makish and after years he comes to he was crying to me he says you know I don't feel anything I don't I learn all this from him I I know everything and I know all I feel garner nothing and he's a serious person and he says the whole day I learned I said take a hike just take a hike get out of this form just take a hike get get into nature right just open yourself up feelings Start feeling. Start feeling world. Start feeling. You'll start feeling you. Start feeling. You want you want to feel first of feeling feeling your child, feeling the tree, feeling the the nature. Then you open yourself up. You have to this. You have to open this up. It's not about information. It's about opening of of of consciousness, opening of your of your soul. What would you tell for to a person who is like he's he's okay. He's he's he wants to be a a good Jew. He wants good and he knows everything and he learns and he does everything but it doesn't feel shabas like you just said I don't feel it comes Friday if to him it's like a social thing we get together quality time and it's a family and he understand he doesn't touch his phone I got it but he wants to feel he wants to connect of course you see if you believe you know that you this is what connects you to it's it's you're a witness that created the world otherwise is you're just like everybody else. You belong to this tribe. You vote for the if you have shabas. I voted for the but he doesn't feel it. He wants to according to your teachings and your what would you say to a person say how do you start feeling that it's a good it's a good question. I actually wrote a few on chabas because of this one's called the mystery of shabas one's called raza the shabas because people want people but I actually I'm working on another book and that's very important you know there was a there was a very smart kamatki so when he came to America he once said that the oil here it's not a problem to keep in shabas they don't keep shabas in America 1930s 40s said they don't keep shabas of shabas what'sabas is you know we we need to transition into spaces just like just Like in in space and in and consciousness, the same thing in time. We need transitions. You can't go from one place to another place. It's like when you listen to something, you listen to crazy music and all of a sudden you get into some sad stuff. It doesn't work. Doesn't work. Exactly. You have to you have to ease into it. Exactly. You need you need techniques of transition. If I want you want to feel the oil of Shabas melody, you need to start Wednesday. Yeah. That's right. That's that's the best. That's a little too much. Yeah. So the reason said you have to start Wednesday, you have a mash on Wednesday and on Thursday there are people you can hear from big they would say they were waiting all week for shouts. Correct. Correct. Correct. But most people can't do it. I'm just saying like this this tech there's practical things very practical things. Lamar for example don't open up an email that's going to talk to you about business a few hours before Shabas. Don't open up the mail that you're going to get a bill. It's going to ruin your shot. You're going to you're going to end the shabas with with with so what you're saying yeah you have to be consciously aware yes of yourself and of your surroundings and of the yont and whatever is coming right now correct before a wedding you will not exactly you will not answer emails before you marry off your daughter and then you're going to show up to your wife to your child and you're going to feel you feel I feel alive why because you were preparing for a month and you bought your suit and you bought your thing and you got ready you need to you need to transition and you have to do also So like phys you know we're very visceral people we're physical people there's an idea to go to the mikvah of shabas besides all the but I'm telling you it's also gashm especially a hot mikvah puts you in that vibe is what you're saying because we're full attention person's full attention what releases tension heat it's very simple writes this in a high you want to bring on a thousand levels writes writes us that it's all what is it saying it's saying during the week you're full of tension and you're running and you're jumping You need to release the tension. Go into a hot mikvah. Just it releases everything. Sit there for a few minutes. Let go of everything. And then also like meditate like do this as a kavana when you put your head under the water just let go of all your your your digest and let go of all your worries and transition and transition you know when you take off your big I mean change because that's why last week I think the para was about the kahan. It had a lot. It had a huge impact. Of course, a police officer walks around with a uniform. He feels like a police officer. Feels like a police officer. There's a reason for it. Exactly. When you take off the reason I was very mocked, but not to wear the big the and big the shabas. Why? This represents a certain type of way I'm being in this world. Take it off. But not only rip off your shirt. Okay, that's fine. Think about what am I doing? I'm unbuttoning my lavush and my garments, the way I'm the inter interface that I have throughout the week. And I'm letting go. I'm changing it. Now I'm going to go into the mik. I'm going to become I'm going to get birthed. I'm going to let go. Transition. Let process of transition move you to get to a place of dua and then you'll get to shabas. You'll feel it. Wow. It's amazing because it seems like what you're saying is from the beginning you're talking about kabala and all these teachings is that um it's examining your life on a tremendous level. You can't just live life just like comfort zone. It's 20. You could but you're not going to get the results. You're not alive. So this what I'm taking out from it so far is that you have to live consciously every minute of the day in every uh yont and every shabas and every occasion you have to be tuned in 200%. Yeah. If you want to live, if you want to live life, if you want to be full of joy and positivity and hope and you want to you want to have a wife and family, you have to be tuned in. You you have to be tuned into life. Yeah. Or else or else you live mechanical and then your life becomes pathetic and sad. You know, they do that and then then you're not you're not successful in anything. You're not successful emotionally. You don't have good. You're not love. They don't feel love. You're not You can't be the best husband like that. You can't be the best father like that, right? You can't drop the life. What about um in in Kabala and and and teachings of Tanya? Yeah. The power of the when do you use the lev and when do you use the moy? It's a complicated thing because people since you're a you're a person who lives with awareness and feelings and emotions and like you just shabas you just said start Wednesday get into it. This is left. This is all left right but then you have to put your brain to it also the brain comes in when it has to balance it there's there's there's alter actually addresses this in a question mostly famous that it's natural that the mind controls the heart but there's it is natural or it's avoided no natural in other words so let me explain this al actually writes that there are two two mas of the left there's two two different levels of the lev there's two levs Mhm. Which means there's the superficial emotions that a person has and you're in control of that. Which means if I want to let's say I'm having I don't want to say superficial but created emotions. Let's say with a spouse, right? So a spouse is someone you never met, right? Let's say in the beginning of a marriage and you relate to this person. It's not innate. It's not like you're conditioned to this love, right? It's something you have to work on. So love means you have to think about what the person why why you love this person and the gratitude you have to this person. what kind of amazing spouse they are that will bring the love. So the love that type of love that type of emotion is produced by the mind but then there's a there's a love that you have for a child love for a child you never thought about when your child was born this is deeper love. So when you're talking about avoid spiritual practice and there's you want to you want to break open the the the like calls it the inner love that that's natural like a child has for a parent. This is the inner the inner love that that that a parent has for child. This is like that that love which is natural and then you want also to function on an external level also that in in your even your outer expressions of love would also be affected that you should have that and that that's what you use in so there is always you're always so form which what do you use so so this is this is the interesting thing so I mean the is a mitzvah to love but how could it be mitzah to love you can't tell someone to love someone right it's a feeling can't be can't be there can't be a mitzah It's so the the the mag writes that the mitzvah is bonus, right? So, but these this is how it works. It's it's kind of like a flip. The bonus arouses the the the superficial love. The superficial love lets you to drop into the true love. Mh. So sometimes when we're not feeling something because let's go talk about the transitions. Let's say you're not really feeling it. So then think about it. Say, "Okay, but this is the right time. now is PES and I want to really get into this and so you're you're I'm not feeling it yet, right? But it's going to open up the more external love and that's going to crack you open to like so it's it's a it's a one link into each other. Exactly. It's linked. Now on the topic of his bunniness, I know that uh I think Tanya and there's a lot of isbaness going on like use them use your mind and examine and be aware and stuff like that. But then you also have pieces on meditation which is uh his brother does right. So explain his badness versus his bunniness because I'll tell you what it is. Yeah, I'm very much into his badness. I'm like a simple guy. I just want to connect. Yeah, I love it. So, but but his abundance is huge also because uh going into the stuff that I don't even understand. It's interesting. I actually just wrote a book on his bundus. Wow. Yeah. I forgot what it's called, but I don't remember. But the I wrote it's in English on the but the idea is let's go back to the original conversed in is interested in light spreading light in dus in aa that a person should be expansive and open and transcendent and and alive that's like that's the objective um when you say the vas the veus is yearning no the veus is not yearning you that's kisufam kufim is kufim is yearning the Vegas is actually feeling connected connected to the also says so that's what what is that called in English there's no real word for it it's cleaving but it's a wrong word cleaving okay it means I'm I'm I'm attached I'm one right so when you say you mean hashem or with people with the world it's the depth of people is hashem the depth of the world is you see hashem in everything that's the word yeah there's no there's no such there's no duality I got Yeah. Um you know when you dab sometimes for two minutes and you feel like that's what is it I'm connected I'm connected to everything to everything to every the whole world of every every everything before time after time from the beginning of time end of time this is like something that's transcendent is bonus which is very cerebral and intellectual which is to be misbonent on a topic to go through deeply to think about it to to to penetrate it to meditate on it. This is the d of the really right his bondness but ultimately this is where it's like this is why they they both end up in the same source his bonus and his brother all end up in the same place because ultimately Dr. Eba wants the implosion of intellect because we're intellectual people most people you say you're not intellectual but every person is a certain intellectual certain areas Dr. ones that the whole the wholeness of the human being the fullness of who you are should be everything whichever way you can bring it out right so in other words if I say a person says I'm only through my love but when I think my thoughts I have negative thoughts and I have doubts and I have uncertainties deep down I'm connected right says is not good enough because then your mind is not connected and then the problem is that then your your superficial emotions says I want to make you one with hashem them always all times. You're an intellectual. Most people are the difference between a human and an animal is is is the rational brain. So that's like the basic basic definition, right? Animals have some type of emotions and feel like they don't. So the human being is an intellectual. So I'm going to take you and I say I want you to get to that same place. So what I want is you to also experience in your but is a steer right because means that by definition intellect means logic. Logic and logic means I'm thinking about something. If I'm thinking about something, I'm not that thing. Right. If I'm thinking about this table, I'm not the table, right? I can't You can't be one with the table. Exactly. That's not logic. Logic means a detachment. I'm thinking about it. I'm not it. Yeah. You're you're actually one step higher. Exactly. High or lower, it doesn't matter. Right. But I'm away from that. Exactly. Means I'm one with it. Right. So says, I want you to miss Bundas so much, so deep that eventually there's going to be a collapse of your and you become one. Wow. So it they're both going to the place of one, right? So if you take all they have different and and all different, but they're all getting to the same place. They all want you to experience [Music] translated full aliveness with everything in the creator and creation at all times. Now is not only when it comes to a like you have to be like aware of for everything, right? yourself whenever you when you whenever you're fighting whatever decisions you have to make. Yeah. Don't let your uh but but you were saying that the this is the nature. Is it the nature? Because I know a lot of people suffer from the opposite. No, the nature is you could the nature is you could but most people the comfort zone. Yeah. Yeah. Most people most people are reactive. Reactive. Yeah. Most people are not proactive in life. And that's basically the difference between a person that's alive versus not. When you're reactive, then your emotions and your way of living is dependent on another person. because I'm reactive to that other person. If I'm reactive to the weather, right? If I wake up in the morning and it's raining and I feel bad because I feel it's gonna be a not a good day, I'm reacting to the weather. So, who chose the day? The weather. If I walk on the street and someone tell me, "By the way, you look like a schlamas." And I think that's true. I'm reactive. Proactive means I am choosing how I'm going to live, right? There's nothing external about this. It's a self-choice. That's right. I have to proactively say, "I don't care what's going on in this world. actually I'm going to choose going you know when a person wakes up in the morning and says what they're really doing is a proactive state they're saying I am grateful for giving me for you giving me my soul which means I am a thankful being right right now forget what's going to happen throughout the day that's who I am what's going to be is going to be later but I'm I'm proactively choosing to give gratitude to be thankful yeah now back to the gilgillum that we spoke about before how do you explain in a very short version What's what's we're coming down again and very little numas are new what is this is not there's no short version of this I try to give you the cliff notes of this topic it's a very reason I wrote a whole book called Charlie Gulum on this topic right right and how are we supposed to look at it we're supposed to be in tuned in that too this should be part of our lives every day no not really not really a lot it gives us a little bit liberty it gives us a little liberation of uh you know I'll tell you how it works And then we'll we'll get into why you need it in a very very quick you know I don't know if I can do this quick but as short as I can do there's basically something that's called adamad so kadmin is the primordial source of namas everyman okay what is it what is it okay that's primordial yeah so when it speaks about the creation story right so it says and then all humans come from this being so the the it's already a medish actually but This is talks about great at length that all the shamas are rooted in Adam. Okay. Then there's we talk about this the form of the human being. The form of the human being is has 613 parts. There's there's the so the form of the body is there's 613 parts. Okay. That's the form in the body there's parts that connect the head, the feet, legs, right? The different parts of the body, right? Okay, every nishama very in a very short nama is rooted in one of these tayak points. M so let's say there's an comes from the right hand of Adam and the shama comes from the left foot of Adam and comes from the right brain of the the hemisphere the brain of Adam this comes from the right hand of Adam let's say for example comes down to person number one let's call him what does it mean he has a right hand he only has an that's only yeah what kind of personality is that ah so this personality means he has everything he has he has intelligence that comes from the moy he has a heart comes from the left he can walk comes from the hand but he's connected to the right hand which means predominantly his nature is proclivities and his his his inclinations are he's a very giving person. He's naturally a giving person. He's he's likes to give. He's this makes the choice which one second you're asking question. We'll get to that. We'll get to that. Okay. Then comes down and he comes down to the person number one naturally is born into an environment that will be conducive will be to allow for this to be given which means he'll probably be born into a wealthier family. They have more means and he's or not but he'll be a he'll be a person of his of his way of his is that he has to articulate that's his but he also has to work on the flip side of that which is that he struggles with boundaries and discipline because he's a he wants to give and he doesn't his kids are running all over the place he doesn't want to tell him anything his tick is the flip side of the positive the positive work against his grain for no so It's two for the positive. He has to work to articulate it. whatever he and he also has a job to work against his great that's that's the negative side of that positive virtue correct that's a stickle he does it let's say he does his work perfectly amazing he did he was he lives his life perfectly this when he comes back to after may returns back into the hand this spark returns back into the hand of Adam that's where that's where gets lodged back into its space so there's like this big turus theas pixelates it into a bunch of little puzzles. He took the right piece, put it into the sha goes back at the right hand and we're recreating the body of Adam. Wow. Now this right person was is beautiful and was did his job. The problem is that in this is just this is a metaphor in every there's more than 630 people. Right. Right. Eden, right? Right. So it means in every within the within the it's it's a multiple system. So let's imagine this guy did the of the of the of this right hand of Adam this will break itself to two now the part that was this person this individual person stays there stays in wow that's why you can say kadesh for this person and the person doesn't come back and it's not doesn't reincarnate it's not ever what comes back is the parts of self that were never articulated they come back at the person number two this guy works on the this guy has to work more discipline he has to work on you understand each life another part and then the souls go back and return back into. So you would call it as a punishment. No, it's not a punishment at all. Not a punishment. Not a punishment at all. No, because someone says if you're not one that's not a punishment that's the average incarnation. So you ask what's my what do I know my is very simply do see what makes you alive in this world. What gives you that's your and see because of this I also suffer from the opposite side of that. The struggle is on the other side. That's why I take them to work on those things to per to articulate the best perfection of who I am positively and to overcome those negative things. It's a busy life. Yeah, that's life. Yeah, that's my life. And it doesn't mean you're going to get 100%. Hopefully, you get, you know, good percentage. Again, you're you have to examine your your evaluate yourself from both sides. Correct. So, when you see personalities on the street, Yes. you see that this person is this type of personality and he has this to work on this. Yeah. And every person has to do to make sure they understand what my purpose is. How am I articulating and how do I make this my life? You know, you're you're you're you're podcasting obviously like talking to people and you made it your life. That's a perfect articulation of your talents of what you're good at and what you want to do in this world. Make it your existence. That's the positive. Probably something negative. Exactly. So that's the positive. That's nothing to do with That's nothing to do with with punishment. It's not a punishment. Now when we talk about punishments, it's a different thing. It's a different type of guild though. If this came down into this world that was and didn't do anything not positive and not on the negative, he didn't he didn't he didn't perfect his life. He lived his life mediocre. Didn't really do really have to be doing. He didn't articulate himself. Never worked out that he Yeah, that's sure. Right. Can also do that. So then he comes back to 120. He can't put it back. He can't deposit him back into it. He can't be put back the puzzle. Then that entire inama with the person's memory which is very unusual. What do you mean with the memory? I'll explain you. Would enter into another form of life. So it can either enter into vegetation or into an animal or to a stone. It can enter into another form but not a human being. Also possible into another human being but that's unusual. It's very unusual. Uhhuh. So that means a person who is alive now can't say that I don't remember my previous life. It's not human. You're saying you go into the reason why you don't remember your previous life because your previous life is linganaden your right and the reason why animals sometimes express it's very hard to say this but like let's it's possible that animals express some type of human characteristics there has a whole thing about this whether it's true or not but what kind of animals I mean anything any in other words a person a person's soul could be trapped this is one of the reasons why we eat fish sadikim eat fish because of gilgul gulim this is sadikim that are perfect. They did their perfect thing. They can't yet be published in Ghana in the in the Kadwan. They can't go to vienn because they didn't do anything really wrong. So they come there for a short period of time. They hang out with a fish. The the fish has their own consciousness. They don't become the fish doesn't start talking and so you know it's like there's another but the soul is attached to that fish and then the soul reaches the tick and then goes back in. But that's the that's the general two two forms and then you ask a question. Fascinating. It's fascinating. I mean it's a huge huge topic. There's the the second question you ask is who chooses and that's kind of an interesting question because of this when the writes that um it's the only place that's that's written that the nama chooses and everywhere else places that hashem chooses and it's not a stair why is not a stair because if this did in this world then now needs to come down to do in this world right so who chooses it chooses it or or or the with the shaman knows that in order for me to be in this world the correct way I need to be in this person I need to go into that family and that those own challenges in this family with their own drama that they have I need to be dka there I'm going to reach my tick so nama chooses when a person says I have issues with my parents and my siblings and things like that you should know that before 120 before he came into this world he made the choice you said for my tickl to reach this in this world I need to mean every person knew what he is going to go through in this world well not the details right not the details else. You don't know how it's going to live out, but I know this is going to be my body. This is going to be the the context, right? The context of my life I chose. I know exactly what's going to be here. That's going to be the best way for I for me to reach my tikum is to be in this situation, this time period, in this family, in this this you know, this community in this this situation. Yeah. Now let me ask you uh the Persian that you can explain about it's a famous [Music] where is that tie into this whole not more of you know how should a person look at it you know a person the everybody understands pretty good it's not so complicated but what's with the vero which means that this he really wants to do the right and he works on himself and he does and you know we understand I know you talk about it a lot I saw one of your things talking about time and space that man and uh this doesn't exist we can't watch when is this going to happen he's ding and ding and ding knew when is this so doesn't operate in in in time and space but what does a person need to do when he's supposedly doing the right thing and he doesn't see he doesn't he doesn't have nakas he doesn't have panusa and he's like it's like it's it's it's a tadic you know you made a sad classic with the gammor I mean that is bad he's not getting he's in bad shape he's in bad shape there's no arguing you know asked the shila this is one of the questions asked and was not answered so why why yeah why do good people suffer right but um and I'm not going to pretend to answer the question but I would I would say like this I know the dives into this like right but I I it's complicated but I I would say likeisha the story of that he doesn't know what ra is exactly so if you're at that level then this question is not a question exactly and I would say even more that once you get to the point ofisha then you actually start getting you start you start living no then you start getting actually physical then you start actually getting good things in other words starts to kick in is what you're saying exactly the reason why the reason why sometimes forget about the sadic I'm not going to but the reason why sometimes because we don't achieve what we were trying to achieve. We're not getting there is because we're chasing it, right? The chasing it itself is what's pushing it away. Yeah, we're forcing chasing. Yeah, we're forcing things. Sometimes you just have to drop into it. And to drop into it, you have to stop chasing it. So, I have to work on myself and I have to I have to obviously I have to make I have to work on everything. But the the chasing of it, you know, I'll give you like this there's the funny way of thinking about this. Everything has soas, right? Everything has sparks. What does that mean? And I this is also one of my major questions. Sparks flying, what is that? It goes back to the same thing reincarnation which means that everything everything that happens in the physical world is representative of a spiritual reality that's happening which means nothing is coincidence. Everything is which mean so what does it mean? It means that if I am meeting you or if I'm walking down the street there's some type of spiritual elevation that has to happen. That's nitis. Nitus means there's light, there's redemption, there's hope in every possible encounter. Everything has. And why am I encountering these things that other person? Because that's the connected to me. That's the connected to you. Why do you have this amount of money? This person has this amount. Why? This is your family. This is my family. Because everyone has their sparks, which means that they have things that are connected to them. And there's there's a possibility to release this positivity in this this encounter, this holiness in this encounter, this kaducer. That's that's that's the the so in in theory then if if let's say let's say it's a it's a watch let's say a person wants a watch it's like more like 19th century people don't want watches anymore but let's say that's yeah the person wants a watch there's noises I feel a strong draw to that that that watch because there's something has to be elevated in the process of me holding this watch or a car or a house whatever it doesn't really matter now if it if if if we resonate together there's the sparks are resonating which is My consciousness resonates with the consciousness of this watch, so to speak, right? So, there's a resonance, right? And so, there's an attraction. That's why I'm attracted. So, why am I attracted to it and it's not attracted to me? That could be a question, right? Why do I have to chase it? Why does it chase me? Like, if if it's if it's resonance and it's too So, uh, the way the way it's explained, and it's kind of like a cutesy way, but it's it's actually there's depth to it is that there's a certain pattern that you set. If I receive things in my life, the objects in my life, people in my life, plo in my life, whatever I'm receiving, and I do it to release taka sparks, which means I use my money to give stock and I use my money to live big and I live on money to to to I don't know to do whatever I'm doing, but something bigger, larger, more, deeper, and that's the way I'm living my life. So the sparks of order are very attractive to me because I'm I'm the right guy. I'm the person that's doing these things. But if I'm a person that that the moment I get something, I write it. I, you know, I I keep it for myself and I I have a new car. No, no one's going to drive it. The moment I do that, the sparks are are are suspicious of me. They're saying, "I don't want I don't want this guy. This is not the person that I want to be attracted to. He's attracted to, but I'm running away." So, he keeps So, again, so the more you live from a place of wholeness, right, and a place of fulfillment and a place of abundance, the more you actually attract things because the more attractive you become. I want to give you an example of this is also in relationships. I don't know if it's on the but people that are desperate to get married are very unattractive, right? No one wants to get married to someone that's desperate to get married. A person says, "I'm actually I'm not desperate. I'm actually fine. I'm exc I'm beautiful. I have a great life." Oh, that's very attractive to me. Right? It's the same thing with the sparks. You want to attract things in your life. Feel complete. Thank Hashem for everything you are. Be very grateful. Be very wholesome. Feel that you your life is amazing. So what you're saying, that's where the is going to be diminished. Yes. You're not going to focus your lens is not going to be focused on the ra so much if you're going to whenisha said that he doesn't have ra then he receives whatever he needs right then they they get then they fed him you know yeah that that's that was the concept now I know you talk a lot about tremendous topic a person has can be it can be is there while you choose how is how is uh uh how do you connect that in everyday life? Um and of course there is such a thing as cha after you you're asking very big questions you know this is like this is like one of the major questions in describing yeah yeah so simplify so a person who understand who wants to understand what does it mean there's there a bunch first okay let me say something about because it's very important so famous classically says the person has free choice The way the Torah phrases the Torah says right which means I I'm giving you good and life but you know death and choose life. So then there's no choice. Why is tell me means there's no choice. You just told me don't tell me what to choose. Tell me why you tell me advice could be but it doesn't sound like an advice sound like do yeah then they don't have choice and the answer the deep the deepest answer is and listen to this is that we can only choose life we have no other choice there is no other choice the other choice is not to choose in other words I choose to be proactive or I don't choose and I'm reactive my reactive is not a choice. My reactive means I'm not choosing. If I show up to life and there is reactive, right? I have no You didn't choose. You just threw in the towel. Exactly. So someone screams at you, you get angry, was your No, you're just reactive. There's no you don't become angry. If I can choose to choose life, I'm always choosing. The choice of life is the only choice I really have. The opposite of choice is not choice in negative. The opposite of choice is no choice. I just give in the towel. I throw in towel. So how do you describe? So, so now you have the question of what is so is always now the question is we'll talk about this in a second but what how does really jive with how does it come together with with it's a beautiful concept what you just said there is there's no choice in choice right there's no by not choosing you're right by not choosing you're you're throwing in a towel you're not choosing that and that negativity always comes from the the absence of choice correct right I'm choosing to be angry I'm choosing to be what you didn't you didn't choose to be angry you were angry because someone made you angry Yeah, you reacted. I'm choosing to hate. Hate is not a reaction. Hate is a reaction. It's not it's not an emotion. I'm choosing despite the fact that you did something bad to me. I'm going to be good. That's so now the question is which is a very profound question. I don't know how long you have, but I'm going to try to explain this in in in the shortest possible possible way. Is that there's a famous question of the Rambam asked the question of right free choice and um and Hashem's knowing. And really that's a pretty simple answer. the Ram not for the Ram because Rama has a different idea what you for the simple answer would be is that that um that Hashem knows what you're going to do like the riots says like a star laser or some fortune teller or Hashem knows after you did it already because it's beyond time this is a ways to understand it again the ram you do is different doesn't answer that question the real question becomes which is of the because before before the revealing of terror of there was which is general the content context of life is chosen but how you choose it like wants you to get there let's say that's the that's a general that's general how you going to get there take a plane take a car that's that's your choice came along and said no no no means that how you going to choose it if you go by car by plane that's also which means I have no free choice there's zero free choice there's zeros everything is So a this is important balv didn't just reveal another idea revealed this truth and it became the truth. So it was a revealing of a new gillus which means before the m there was no on a very high level reveal everything it wasn't there or nobody saw it there no it wasn't there it wasn't there that's what I think it wasn't there that's why the rama would say this pro didn't understand it was it was a higher the reason why it was a higher revealing it was a new truth because as we're getting closer to Msiah which is the ultimate everything we're revealed as that everything will reveal as divinity So there's more but it's only so the more we get to recognize that there's more is being revealed right so is part of mashia the is part of revelation that's one wow now I'm going to say also an opposite thought a paradoxical opposite thought as time progresses from the beginning of time the of the writes and others write it as time progresses from the beginning of time more is more is available not less Because in the beginning of time, this is why in the toy there's less according to according to the many things in the beginning of time there's less. Why? Because there's the echo from the creator in creation. So once in the beginning of time when the creator's light is still echoing through the beginning of the creation, man doesn't have independence and and existence is not an independent thing. So there's no it's less as the the voice of creation becomes dim because we're getting further away from creation. further away the more starts arising the more the more the more sense of independence starts arising right and that's why fascinatingly if you look at history all the movements I don't want to get into a big schematic thing of history but the ancient all ancient civilizations and the indo-uropeans all the ancient civilizations they functioned as clal as as as a collective there's no individuality it's only in in the last few thousand years that there was an emergence of individuality it's partially because of the but the inversions of interity. If you come to the modern era which is like the last from the enlightenment period forward all the great revolutions that happened in the world were all about liberty, freedom, individuality, democracy, representative this is all about why did it come to this world now? Why in the in the first thousand years was you're saying because we are further away. Exactly. So the more further away the more the more is more individual. Right. So here you have two phenomenas that are paradoxical happening at the same time. There's more being revealed and there's more being revealed. Which one is it? And the answer is simultaneously both. Mhm. And the reason why it can only be revealed now is because now we have we're equipped to understand paradox. If you lived in scientifically speaking like a very simple scientific in a in Newton like an older universe before the 1900s before the before the 20th century from the beginning 1900s before quantum mechanics I'm not going to get into because that's but be it used to be an absolute understanding of the universe time was real space was real and there's it's immovable and there's no improbabilities everything's predicted everything is solid if you're a scientist lived in the 1800s you could say I can predict led to the end of time came the 1900s and this whole thing was upended Einstein Eisen a lot a lot of scientists came along and they upended this entire structure which is time is not absolute and space is not absolute and quantum mechanics means that this is both things are both a wave and a particle simultaneously and this roinger cap and there's many different scientific revolutions that happen that allowed for the emergence of modern man modern man not the modern man thinks in paradox because they know that this the binary system of opposites don't work anymore because things actually collide and become one this is his goal This is part of the this is part of the revelation on a super high level becomes revealed in science because it's all part of the same system. It has to be it has to articulate in the world of science. But in the world of how does it show up both simultaneously being revealed at the same time? That's crazy. How does it answer the question? It doesn't because logic cannot answer that question because it's paradox. But they're both simultaneously true and we have to live that way. Mhm. That's the short answer. That's the short answer. That's the short answer. Now what does it mean to live this way? Because live this way means and it's important. Living this way means in practical life because we're binary we have separation. Abdullah this is the way our das works. We just have to make Abdullah to make the sense out of this. So we'll say like this there's past and present. Everything I'm doing right now I have agency free choice. I could choose choose life. I can make a choice. Everything that I chose already in past tense is absolutely it was meant to be meant to be. It was destiny. It was exactly what wanted this to happen and that's why it happened. So let's say Hitler Wait a second. I wanted to go to the question of chuva. Okay, go ahead. So the highest level of chuva once said the highest mad chuva is to reach a level of chuva that you don't have to do chuva anymore. What is that? Elaborate on that that what does that mean? I take full responsibility things for what I've done because I own it because I created it and then I recognize that everything I've done was exactly the way it should have been done. Exactly. But the only way I can do that is I first have to own it. I can't say everything I've done I slapped you. Exactly. I slapped you. I did. But to the level to understand that even this the was standing right there in that wanted to fall to fall. That was the to fall. Wow. You know there's a from which which is I don't know why people don't know this but it's a most people think that they fall because they have right flips it on its head. What does he say? He says you have so you should fall that created the so you should have you should fall and then get up. That's correct. And that brings you closer otherwise there's no gain. Correct. There's what in other words the whole structure the structure was not oh I fell because of no creat you should fall you should fall and get up and get up again exactly the whole is how you get up in life not you fall you fall everyone falls the tic is the one of those will come how do you get up in life do you get up you own it and then you can get up and say that's and and I can live so the way to look at the holocaust is that Hitler was clearly he had a choice and he could have built the entire thing instead He destroyed it. Right. But after it was done, that was the roots in two things. He wasn't reacting. It was actually right back. Right. Yeah. He had hate because he had hate because reaction reaction reaction. And that's all very low-level conscious people that that react. Okay. But in retrospect, it's very dangerous to say it's dangerous theology, right? Because when a person goes through pain, right? They don't. The worst thing you can tell them is the roots. Never tell anyone. They don't want to hear it. No is for your own problems. When you go to the person's list, don't tell us. Never say that. You're you're an idiot. I'm sorry to say that. I don't care if you're the biggest here. You're not smart. You don't say it. You don't say that, right? But that's the truth. And but the only way to say that is after the fact, of course. In other words, if if I think we're still in the post trauma traumatic era of we're not we're not done yet. We're not done yet. And 50 years from now, Absolutely will be already and the generation will be passed. We can say the for sure we can see this and we can actually see what what what emerge what the light the has a whole he talks about like he talks about the that in order for a higher light to emerge the lower thing has to be destroyed right you can't you can't create something if you still you're trying to comp that's like in life like try if I'm I'm trying to grow and I'm trying to grow from the place that I am and I'm not getting letting go of things so then you're just shleing along the things the way to do is you have to do a radical Right? And you have to uncut yourself from that thing that's holding you down. Then you can create something new. So the the is actually the the the root of the of Msiah. The is is is what gives light. But birth of Mashiach light brings you closer. Every break every break brings to higher place. Brings it to a higher place. Correct. Now talking about Mashiach. Yeah. What is Mashiach? How is this? How are we going to is is the world going to be at the same level that it is right now and Mashiach is just going to who is Msiah? How is M how is he going to change our lives? Are we going to just be someplace else? Okay, first of all, let's let's let's start off like the Rambam writes famously that we don't know exactly what's real, what's exactly. So that's the Ramb that's his premise. So how are we supposed to think about it? So you have to think about mashiach writes means mashia means that every person has a redemption consciousness a consciousness that is not broken that is not coming from a place of lack that is not looking for a future that is present right now right here in full that's the that's the what's the t of mashia that's the mashia the mashia means the the the the the the the the oiler, right? Yeah. I mean, that's simply that's what it means. What is the taj of the mashia? No, literally it means anointed one. It means anoint someone that's anointed with oil. But it means it means this idea of the mashiach and why a person right is sometimes maybe when when your child is getting married or when you're ding or maybe poor sometimes there's a person that can think about their life there was sometimes in their life that for a few moments you felt like the world is perfect. Yeah. That everything in your life is exactly the way it has to be. You know exactly why you married this person and these are your children and this is everything makes sense to you. Everything everything is sense but not sense like in a logical thing. Everything makes exactly everything makes sense. That's the matri is when that we're talking about is when the world will reach a consciousness everybody collectively collectively will be in that state is in charge. Perfect. Exactly. This is the I get it. It makes sense. And it's exactly the way it should be. How it's going to live out in the printer. Exactly. We don't know. We'll figure that out. And this is and and and they say not to use Mashiach because you want to get out of your right. Is that is that is that fair to say? Because some people say, "Oh, Mashiachim, you know." No. Usually that type of mashia you're talking about, it's just to get you out of the Yeah. It's also a binary system. You see, Mashiah is not binary. It's not it's not an answer to a question because if you answer if it's an answer to a question then there's going to be another question tomorrow right you have to get out of this out of the binary out of a question and an answer right mashia is you know there's five daggers in the soul there's five five levels in the soul so is in the binary system because it's opposites so you'll have one another one another the fifth level is not in the binary it's not it's it's it's an odd number that represents something that's beyond Cuz every time I'm looking for a gula, even a gula patus, right, that's only a gula that's going to answer a question that I have, that's not real gula, right? It's a gula. You want it to be for eternity. You want eternity. Exactly. You want to live in that place. You want to say I have and then because Okay. And then what happens if you don't have or if come okay nothing. No, we want to be in a place that there's no we we don't we're not equipped to actually think this way in a real way because we think that tension brings growth, right? And it does, right? Like we say in our lives, what forces us to to get out of our comfort zone is is tension. Like a question forces an answer. If I'm if I'm comfortable, I don't have questions. I'll never I'll never look for question. I'll never never have the deeper answer in my life. But the question is the burning desire for me to create a question. So tension creates. But what happens if there's another there's a flip side of another way of living which this time without desire which is mashia. I don't know what that means. I can get a glimpse of that maybe when I'm doubting or some type of moment that I have that. But there's another way. There's another paradigm, another way of being which is not about opposites. It's just about I have no desire for anything. I'm here. I don't need anything to go to be to do. Now how does a person live his life with the like what are the key steps if a person wants to live this uh find his own Msiah in himself? This is this is part of the paradox. Mhm. You're there already. If I search for it, I'm never going to find it because then I'm not it. Right. So, live in the present moment. Just drop into it. Just accept. Surrender. Surrender in the present moment. That you are. The moment you're just going to say, I don't want it. That's the ilis. That's the gulatis. That's the secret. Yeah. Because if I'm looking for it, it'll never come. We're chasing it. Exactly. We're chasing it. We're running away. So the the real thing is to open ourselves up and I and I say to make this more practical like what the gulus is take experience that you have already in your life that are let's say you you enjoy nunim or or davening or learning take or being with your f take things that have a trace of this gula thing and try to do it a little bit deeper to letting go of mamish being there and you're going to you're experiencing this is beautiful because it is in you the gilutius is here that you don't have to run There's no there's no it's not in a safe deposit box. It's right here. Right. It has to. Yeah. Right. You know the once said that three things he learned when he got older and one of the things that he learned he says I got I learned when I got older is that whenever I do something wrong whatever on that level was I do chuva I forget about it the rest of my life because when I was younger I thought I have to do but he says I do something I move on. Forget about it. That's the whole point. Forget about them. Move on. Move on. Take responsibility. Don't look back. Take responsibility. Own it. And then say it's this is what I have to be. That's what I have to do. And now I'm doing work. I had somebody once asked me a a question. How do I know what my is? Like you you you have your mission in life and this is your talking and you're giving and you have this you're doing tremendous things. People find their you can see it. But what's a good it for somebody who says you know what I want to find my own I have a 9 to5 I go to work every day I don't feel it very it's an excellent question I think it goes back to a little what we spoke about before which is part of your is part of your so a person has to do is a person at least once a week on Thursday night go through your week write down you'll be surprised because but don't don't think I'm going to write down all my write down the things throughout the week or by day what are the highlights when did I feel most alive. I felt alive. I felt highest. I felt aliest. Where were you pulled to? Yeah. Where were you pulled? Where did the highest? Where did you feel it? Do this for three, four weeks. I promise you it's going to come to you. It's going to come to you. You're going to see these are the things that I'm doing. I never thought this. I never knew I'm good with people. I should really be being a therapist. I never thought I'm good with all of a sudden. That's what gave me is not making money or doing this or maybe making money doing deals. But whatever the case is, pursue it. Pursue it and don't think what other people have to say. Correct. And just that's your that's your that's your particular mitzvah you have to do. That's that's your Now we have a final question for you and this is a personal one. Yes. Since you're like accomplished who am I to say what kind of uh accomplishments you have and what kind is your role model? My lab. How in which way did he make a an impact that we see what we see now? I hope my life is a reflection of the Rebaldic. The Reb the Reb was um I mean was the Reb but but but my what my understanding is the Reb was a person that had the highest level of Kadusha but the highest level integration in the world. You know, he was able to be on the highest level of of where he was, but to be grounded with his feet on the ground and and not to make to live with with aas to really to live with the idea of of in the world to see the unity of of everything. He saw the world from a different lens not from a different question. I always say this the way he created leaders and you're part of it and I said it to all the who I speak to. what he created you don't see in the world because he created something a person like you who should sit and learn and publish your things and and and online and whatever you do and just share this with the world with such confidence and with such uh a true role model but the rebels should be a role model to all of amazing amazing stuff I want to really thank you for coming in and giving me this uh time out of your busy today. My pleasure. And uh and I want to thank you. I want to thank you whoever is going to listen to this. We are sharing your wisdom with the world. You this is giving. This is a gift that you give to the world and you don't hold it by yourself. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you very much. It was a pleasure. My pleasure. Thank you.