The Struggle Podcast EP11 Rabbi YY Jacobson- Community Awareness, Child Safety and Aguna Crisis

They have to live for the rest of their life with knowing that their father is a murderer. But because you feel bad for their wife and children, therefore you will going to allow this guy to go next week to another school and kill another 10 children. We're not going to win the fight running after these abusers and these pedophiles. The main credit goes to victims who had the courage of coming out of telling their stories. Correct. This is going to come out soon on WhatsApp. It's good. Why? Why is he not open with me? I'm the best father in the world. I'm Rabbi Y Jacobson. Everybody comes to talk to me. Why can't my kids come to talk to me in such pain to keep women or men in shackles for so many years? It's not enough the abuse they went through their whole marriage. Now they can't even get out of the marriage. It's so important. Every woman needs a support system. She can't do it on her own. As a community, we are not allowed to tolerate people who are abusing innocent people. Mikvah. Mikvah is it's very important. But what do you think about sending [Music] children? Okay, we have over here today an esteemed guest, special guest that came in today. An individual who needs no introduction, Rabbi Y Jacobson. Um you have a way with um raw messages and emis that you give people are you're known for giving special raw messages. You have dedicated your life to help people to help people out of their struggles to help people how to uh navigate life. You know what it says? The says that our job is to emulate the it says and what I noticed is that you dedicated your life to stand up for the your style when you stand up and you speak about certain topics with such a passion with such a fire. I remember a few years ago I was by Shiners and it was on a tishabuff. Uh you gave a shir 3:00 in the afternoon 2 hours 2 and 1/2 hours and you went into this uh you were talking about child protection. You were talking about um child molestation and you were standing there with a fire in your eyes for two hours in a row and you were talking like that used to give a sik and not know where he was and you were going at it with such empathy and with such an awareness with such an education. This is so close to your heart when it comes to this subject. So what I where I want to go with this is that I know there are people who are talking about when they talk about this subject there are people who are incarcerated. There are people who are convicted and incarcerated for for this reasons and there are people who are trying to defend them in a certain way. They're saying that the tora doesn't talk about the tora what is the rules in the tora when it comes to child molestation tora talks about aas about money but jail the system the jail system you can't find in the tora and it takes uh you know if this is cruel and unusual punishment my question to you is what does the tora say about this and about child molestation about mishk of Zuk. What is what is the what is the to stand of how to handle a situation like this? Well, first and foremost, I think we have to understand that when people are showing more empathy to the perpetrator than to the victim, okay? It means we have something very very sick about us. Of course, every good person should feel bad for the perpetrator's family. If somebody Khalil didn't molest children, but somebody came with a gun and went into a school and shot 10 children dead. 10 children died. 10 children are buried in cemeteries because of this person. And he's incarcerated, I don't know, given three life sentences. Should you feel bad for his wife and children? Of course you should. Of course you should. They have to live for the rest of their life with knowing that their father is a murderer. But because you feel bad for their wife and children, therefore you will gonna allow this guy to go next week to another school and kill another 10 children. You're gonna feel bad for him more than for the victims. Of course, his wife and children are the first victims. But that's his fault. It's not the victim's fault. It's his fault. This sick, sick, sick man, instead of going to get help, decided to dedicate his life to murder children. He's the one who destroyed his wife and children. Don't now blame the victims. A few years ago, a few years ago in Israel, it's a crazy story, right? One of the top therapists, one of the top therapists in the f world in Benabra was the one who was doing this crazy crazy story. You remember twisted and then he shot himself. He shot himself near his son's grave. Okay. And then somebody said to say bad things about him is linhara. It's gossip. It's gossip. And there was a girl who committed suicide because of that. Because her shame, not only the shame of being molested for so many years, but now the shame that she's guilty because she caused him to kill himself. He wouldn't have not killed himself if he wasn't embarrassed. Terrible things. Throw yourself in fire. Then then the story with right. This is what he call in in in the novi tells and in the voice first you murder these kids you emotionally murder them literally and now they're not let it talk now you want to murder them a second time. So generally of course it's horrible for their families. Of course of course and every normal person's heart goes out goes out for these people for their families. Of course, it's not their kids, not the kids guilty that his father is is. But when we starting to show more empathy to the perpetrator than the victims, that should make us extremely extremely curious like what's wrong with us? What's wrong with us? Like should you feel bad for his family, a father? Should you help his wife and children in every possible way? Of course, should you judge them? Never. Should you judge them and say, "Oh, his father." That's that that's ridiculous. Yeah. Because that's the argument. It's the family. It's everything around them. Empathy for empathy for the family is is is critical. It's the basp especially for this family. For this family, we should have more empathy. We should have more empathy. We should have a special sensitivity because I'll tell you if their father was was molesting children. I don't know what happened in his own house. I don't know what happened in his own house. They may have been the first victims. And even if he didn't do anything to his children, the fact that he was so disconnected and disassociated, what type of father or husband did she have? So, they were almanus and yimon before before was caught. So our our hearts should go out but we should never confuse with the fact that when you have a roy a roy in a community and anybody who denies the fact that this is emotional murder simply is not aware of the fact I spoke about the cemetery with 10 kids our cemeteries have kids yes that took their lives or overdosed and many of them it's a it's part part or a major part of it is how they were raped and molested the shame that these people live with the internal emotional struggle the way It affects their marriages when they get married and their spouses, their spouses, their kids and the shame, the guilt, the anxiety that they carry. If people don't know, I'm glad if you don't know about this para, God bless you. You should never ever know about it. But anybody who knows anything about this knows how painful it is. So our first and foremost responsibility is as you said by the way just in parenthesis it's not negated to our to our discussion but it's interesting that paras I think the med says Russia it's a very interesting medish we're talking about the I think before we go into anything there's a den of very famous den If somebody harms his friend any way you have to pay any form of harm. Nzek is the damage itself. Tar is the pain. Ripu is medical expenses. What we call today therapy expenses. Chevvis is disability. They have to stay home. Bas is shame. I want to know when somebody molested a child and we ask how much is I'd be surprised if it's less than $45 million. So at the basic level, every one of these alpaid owes millions and millions and millions of dollars to their victim. That's on the basic level. That's before we're getting into anything. And this doesn't have to do with molestation or any other form of harm. But to say that molestation is not a form of that's ludicrous. That's ludicrous. It's it's it's it's it's so devastating. It's so crushing. It's so horrific. That's one thing. Another thing is this is interesting. It doesn't apply to all cases, but the gives usually when the speaks about a sin, it doesn't give us comparisons to other sins. says don't cook goat don't do there's one exception and the exception is when somebody rapes a woman a woman who's betro the woman who's married and uh so it says if it's in the city and she could scream so then she should have sinned but if it's basically by force so the says you know he has to be put to death and Just like if you get up and you murder somebody, this is exactly what happened. Yeah. Now it's talking about a married woman. That's true. But it's so interesting could just say it's for it's it's it's permissible. It's forbidden that the one case where the wants to give you context. I want you to understand that there's an element of here and this in it's a big thing. I want to know why suddenly is not a safer of this is like that of like that of that you have in midrashim this is the one example he's saying by the way you should know that this is murder and I think part of it is because a few thousand years later God knew that there'll come a generation it's not a big deal get over it but we see in one of those cases it's considered literally and in fact the Gmorra learns from this that Gileas and have a deep connection now I know that this is talking about a particular a particular case of of a violation. But my point is this is what did he do? He forced somebody into a relationship and the says so we have to understand any way you spin it but even without this when you look at the results and you see what happens to people to say that the doesn't take this seriously when there's so many about I think is simply intellectually and Jewishly so so dishonest so dishonest and not only that there's a And brings it and it's in all the it comes from the kazal and that is when we speak about all the death penalties clearly based on that but whenever there's a situation that best and sees there's a crisis in a community and a person needs to be put to death they have permission to kill the person or give any punishment even if the ta doesn't specify that punishment for example let's say somebody murders people but there's no witnesses there's no aim so how do we know we know today you could know with DNA maybe this video cameras. We don't have that gave. So the official death, you know, to get a death penalty in is almost impossible. Yeah. There's a Sanhedrin that said, right, if he was in Sanhedrin, nobody would ever nobody would ever nobody nobody would ever be murdered. Nobody would ever be murdered. And they said for Sanhedin Paskins, that one person really once in 70 years they're called kablon and terrorists. A death penalty in terra is very very difficult to get. You have to have two witnesses. They have to watch it. They have to warn you before. Not enough. They have to tell you what's going to happen. It's not enough. Within 3 seconds, within 3 seconds of them finishing the warning, you have to repeat back to them what they said, right? And say, "I'm still doing it." And to do that, you got to be a mish. So to get a death penalty in either you're and you deserve it or and then you're not going to get it cuz off the hook, you understand? So so so it's understand that when speaks nonetheless the is that when you have a son and today we don't have a son. When you have a son, we don't give death penalties, but I just want to bring out the point. And they see there's a man who's a danger for society. I have no ads. It's you right I can't kill him. The isdon has an is to do whatever they need to protect the community. So although we don't have that bez we don't have that and we're live in a civil societies and of course everything should be done according to the law but it brings out a point that when you're our responsible rabbi leader teacher principal parent our first rec consideration is the safety of our children the safety of our most vulnerable the safety of people who cannot protect themselves. These are little little kids. This is what this is what parents are made for. This is what this is our goal. This is the responsibility. A society that is not first and foremost dedicated to protecting their children is a society that cannot survive. It doesn't have a justification to survive. This is everything. This is like everything. So I am shocked. I mean it's much better today. But I am shocked when you come sometimes to leaders in communities or people of influence and you talk to them about it and they're more interested in protecting this perpetrator silencing them and making sure nobody is making waves. I I I simply I I just don't get it. I don't get it. I mean is this why we're a people 4,000 years we had so much ms to hold up our faith our messiah our amuna for what? That we could protect child abusers. pedophiles and women abusers and pedophiles and sick people. Really, that's what we're about. And are we afraid that if we expose these people, our infrastructures will fall apart? Is our Yiddish kite so weak that if we expose crazy criminals, sick criminals, we're going to fall apart? Really? Right. This is the god they were pushing under the rug and they used to charge aas like money come to us and made it a basin or whatever. They didn't want to go to authorities. It it was it was as a matter of fact the victims suffered away there was that's what I want to talk about is the awareness part which I think is getting a little bit better now but 20 years ago there was a guy there was a guy in Williamsburg who was an advocate for um for child molestation this guy is still paying a price there's he there's a pl he cannot walk into a shul because he is in because he came out and he was fighting for this cause and he was fighting for these kids. Now, all what he was saying, that brings me to what you said. Now, what he was saying 20 years ago that he says, "We're not going to win the fight running after these these abusers and these pedophiles. What we have to do is to educate and bring awareness to the children. The children need to first of all the parents and then the parents to talk to their children in the schools. It has to be in the curriculum which means that you can let all the kids loose and not be worried that in shul or in mikvas or whatever there's because the kid is educated the kid knows. So for years they did not talk about the subject. This was pushed under the rug and the raunam and dasurum that you were talking about they were like let us handle it but you didn't handle it. It was bad. It we went from bad to worse. So in your opinion as far as the awareness goes, let's talk about first what do the parents need to know and how are they supposed to discuss this with this has to be broken into pieces and it has to be the norm. It's time that this thing is taking a shift and and I've seen schools and places where they do want to start give awareness. Now this is 20 years later after this guy was at Carbon for uh for I don't know how many years. Hashem, there's much more awareness now and credit is due to a few courageous individuals. Correct. Who did not buckle down, who did not duck, correct? Who continue to talk about it. The main credit goes to victims who had the courage of coming out of telling their stories, sharing their stories in public. And God knows how much shame they endured, how much pressure and internal guilt and shame because some of them haven't spoken for decades. By the way, there are people who don't talk about this for decades. And not only that, there are people who don't even remember that it happened. Our brain has a mechanism. It knows how to suppress information to the subconscious traumas if it's too painful. Yeah. Yeah. I I know this. I know these situations clearly. People who went through crazy stuff and they simply don't have any recollection of it. Not because it didn't happen, but because their system decided at a very young age it never happened. Yeah. Especially if it happens from somebody very close to you, right? Which usually that's the case which is so twisted, right? It's so twisted cuz these are as a kid the family used to be the one that protect your your older brother, your father, your Zeta, your uncle. A lot of stuff is coming from inside your your somebody in yeshiva who's close a first cousin who ate chabas in the house. A babysitter who was so close to the family. So this little child says, "One second, my father is my greatest protector. He's my hero. My brother loves me. So that means one of two things. Either maybe I'm making up the story. It never really happened. Or maybe it's actually for my benefit. Or maybe I really deserve it." Because to come to the alternative and say my brother or my father or my my cousin or my Zeta are sick sick people, sick sick sick people. Child doesn't know how to do that. Child doesn't know how to say I'm good. I'm innocent. How have I? But children don't know how to do that. And in order not to give up the safety of saying I have a father, I have a mother. I have a brother. I have a I have I have good family. So rather the brain says you know what nothing happened. We have to understand how deep it is. The first thing is parents must be educated about all of the aspects age appropriate. They have to be able to communicate to their children what safety looks like, what personal respect is. So that brings us the to the relationship that you have to build. There's so much education. We must have conversations with our children in a very very young age. But there's also another very important message and that is in many of our communities nobody many people don't feel the freedom to be able to talk about issues and that includes even bakim who are struggling. Yeah, every pedophile tried to do it the first time. Before he did it the first time, he was struggling. Maybe it happened to him, maybe it didn't happen to him. Whatever the situation is, cuz not everyone who is a pedophile, it happened to him. But sometimes Yeah. Yeah. Imagine if we would be able to create a culture where at a very young age, everybody was encouraged to talk. You can talk about your struggles. It's not a shame. We all struggle. There's a reason that dedicate so many to very very disgusting relationships and we decide to read it on. Yeah. Was once it was 1978 he started to cry as he said this. He said what's the every Jew is everybody's an angel then it's almost 24 hours you didn't eat you didn't drink and you have no better topic than to say don't go to a don't go to your mother and don't go to your sister and don't go to Mishken The first half of that you read in the morning is all about it's and then right away kamisa edits edits the worst of the worst of the worst the lowliest forms of relationship what we call incest and and beast disgusting relationships what's he gave a he said gavald gald in yiddish and this is what you're talking about. And then he said something that will remain with me that remains with me for my entire life. And he said that the name of the par is you know inus we always explain that the name captures the essence of something. The gamorra says in mayor mayor was very into names. It says you know that the name of something inesh represents the channels of energy through which hashem creates it. So the name of a parish the said is very profound. It's a parish about what's means and he said that's the message. You could be in the heights of yamip. There's always one question be tomorrow. What's going to be tomorrow? What's going to be in a month? What's going to be in a year? Now you're a malik. You're in a kit vice. You have you you're the best of the you tak the holiest of the holiest. But if you want yam kipper to be a real yam kipper, you have to get up and say, you know what, people are capable of everything. People are capable of engaging in anything if they do not work on themselves. And it's not because we're horrible. It's because we're humans. That is the purpose we came into this world. Imagine every baker at a young age knows this. There's no shame. But what happens is sometimes in our cultures we are so embarrassed to bring up issues. So everybody is living in secrecy and then some people they get married and their marriages are disastrous. The women are sometimes saden. The men are doing all types of things. Of course they're wearing the all holy garments and they have kids and they raise beautiful families. In many ways they're beautiful people but they have the secret life. How many yungalai do I know? And I don't know much more. A lot of therapists tell me they can't even believe it. Sometimes therapist who some he says, "I don't know what's going on." He's telling me what one after another. So many secret lives and they're really tortured. They don't know what to do. They're just running from one distraction to another distraction to another distraction. Now, thank God I should say this. I mean, I don't know. You know, these are not pedophiles. These are people who are adults running like Yeah. They're running from one adult to another adult to another adult to another. They're not with children. But the fact is they have nobody to talk to and they and and they don't even know that Yiddishkite actually is like a um an experience of life that's meant to be authentic and truthful and blissful and a relationship with God is not about torture and kill. So what are you missing then Muna in the what's the foundation is missing in the education system? I mean one I think what I think is what I think is I think we we we we know how to quote him but we don't know how to experience him. That's the what the B the BMP the BMP came to the world exactly for this. I I can't say only for this but a big part was for this. The BMP came to a world 300 years ago. Was born in 1698. He passed away 1760. So you're dealing roughly 300 years ago. And he comes to a Jewish people that has been saturated with close to two millennia of crazy crazy gullous trauma on every level. Yeah. Physical persecution, spiritual persecution, poverty, suffering, agony, abuse of every level. Not only that in his day you had two you had takat which was 1648 1649 bugdenetski from Ukraine led the kazaks and they slaughtered much of Polish and Ukrainian jury hundreds of thousands of Jews and if anybody saw videos of October 7th that was a fraction of a fraction of a fraction what they did to these communities that was on a physical level and then you had a few years later Shabitzvi who decided he was Messiah And he literally duped right an entire nation in Europe including Rabonim and then Eden and Russia not everybody but many. And when he converted to Islam I mean when he converted to Islam like your Msiah converted to Islam it was it was like the God the Messiah you imagine converting to Islam. I mean the the breakdown the maj as they call it the sam from the fulk was was the bash came into this scene and what the bashv needed to do was heal heal a people a broken nation broken but how not through preaching not through throwing dollars at people not even through putting up beautiful buildings cuz he never put up a beautiful building The bash did it because he started to give people the experience of gula consciousness. What does it mean to live with Hashem's oneness summatically? Not to preach Judaism, not to do Judaism, to experience in your body, in your heart, what he called divine oneness. What would that look to my body? What would it feel like inside of me if I if I can experience if I could have an ego death and experience myself in the womb of infinite oneness, the source of all bliss. That's where all healing comes from. That's the essence of what Judaism. It's what Davening is. It's what learning is. It's what a mitzvah is. This is an education that's not about you have to do or you don't have to do. You're going to be punished or you're not going to be punished. It's all an education about meeting yourself, getting to know your life force and energy. The Bashant was the one who taught God is not above you. He's in you. In fact, he is you. The Bashant once said, "Gut is alts. Alts is gut." What did he mean? What he meant was the moment you're not experiencing Hashem as you, as the reality of you, it's it's it's a relationship with some idol. It's like some god up there like a vending machine, you know? You throw in a a quarter and he sends you out a tuna. You throw in a dolly, he sends you out some sushi. You don't throw in and he punishes you. But that conception just created more alienation and more trauma. So I think from really from bottom up it's it's it's it's a very internal avoid there's a letter from the bal to his brother-in-law. Yeah. It's an amazing letter. It's printed in Benf and today int. It's a letter and he writes it that Zion which is 1746 he had alias it's an amazing letter to his brother-in-law by the way the other day I met somebody who was an I never met an before so I was I was happy about that I was very nice so he writes to him that he had a sonash it's a long story but one line over there he says he went into the chamber of Msiah and he asked him when are you going to come so Mashiach said anybody knows the name that comes from that letter when your wellsp springs will be yours they'll be disseminated everywhere to the furthest furthest places so doesn't only mean to the furthest places you know where wherever there's a kabat where kabat goes to the that too but first means in my own when we could take the wellsp springsings of the bos and bring Bring it into our own. Bring it into the furthest parts of ourselves, the lowest parts of ourselves. Bring that all in. Realize that God didn't make a mistake when he created you. What do they say? God created. So there's a famous line. God created me and God don't create no junk. Yeah. All your parts, even your mishuga parts, even your difficult parts, even your challenging parts. Gut is also would you say that what you just explained having the in your life that is the secret to build self-esteem not only is that the secret to build self-esteem I think that's the only real self-esteem that's what I'm saying I think it's the only authentic self-esteem Because there's no other way in the world. Yeah, you can read books and you can all the gurus everybody's going to tell you about self-esteem. But the question is how do we how does someone build self-esteem? But it must be that this is so powerful. It comes from from knowing who you are, knowing what your mission in life is. That that is the secret sauce. Yeah. Somebody put it to me once. knowing experientially and somatically and energetically your life energy and source. The moment you experience your life, energy and source, it's checkmate. That is self-esteem. That is self. There's nothing that's more powerful than that. And and by the way, it's not words. I can give a hundred lectures. You have to have self-esteem. You have to have self-esteem. Motivation. Yeah. This is just motivation. The real expression is healthanites. You know they did the leeches to take out the blood. Don't call me bankers, right? I could lecture to people I have self. You need self-esteem. And it's good. It's good to have a psychic. But the real challenge of self-esteem is very internal. It's not words. to put it in language says we know inash the way the flavor and the taste went in that's how it goes out the lack of self-esteem didn't go in through a shear it went in through experience it's not going to go out through a shear it's going to go out through experience it's only when I can energetically feel that I am really really okay like to really and it's it's not it's not so simple I could say I'm okay I'm fine people like me. My wife likes me. God likes me. It's all good. But do you like you? Yeah. In a very very deep place to really be able to let go of all shame and to be absorbed. There's an expression in that loves using to be swept in to be drawn in the womb in the womb of the meal to be able to really really energetically almost feel God speaking from inside and saying my kind you're okay you're good so that means if a person good wow that means if a person is looking if a person wants to build his self-esteem and he wants to get to that place is the awareness the tool just to know I mean where what is his first step a guy says you know what I like what you're saying I want to build my self-esteem where does he start excellent question I think awareness is the prerequisite is the hagda but it's not the safer okay awareness is the hagdama because it's like when you're going to a new place it's good to have a map but the map is not the experience there's an expression in English, the map is not the territory. If I'm going to Hawaii or I'm going to Italy or I'm going to Thailand, it's good to have a map. You're in Hong Kong, you're in China, you're in Russia, you want to know Ven, yeah, we get into a car, we put on Google Maps, but nobody's going to say, "Oh, I'm not going this year on vacation. I have a map. On my map, I'll travel to California." Fine. It's much cheaper, right? It's cheaper. You can go first class ticket. Yeah. But that's not the experience. The map is not the territory. Awareness, education, information is a map and it's a good map and we need a map. Very good. The experience of it. Oh, this is something else. So the map can help us avoid traffic, avoid pitfalls, avoid mistakes, realize where we are, where we need to go. The experience of it, I have to work through my own stuff. It always begins with curiosity of what's happening inside of me. In other words, if every time I come into a bar mitzvah, I'm experiencing crazy social anxiety. If every time they ask me to say something at the Shabas table, it's so overwhelming. If when I come home, my heart falls apart. I'm not happy. If Shabas is such a pressure on me, if I don't like myself, if if if I'm so awkward meeting people, I'm not free. I'm uninhibited. I have this anxiety that sits in me. The more awareness, the more curiosity to these things, this opens up to say, "Oh, wow." You know, the more I just cover it up and I move on and on and on and on with emotionally numb. I'll never become aware of anything. So, this is the beginning of growth to ask questions, to be curious. The first question in the Tyra is Hashem asks Adam, the first question, where are you? That's the first question. Where are you standing? Once we ate from the eightas, we cannot avoid that question. Before we ate from the sadas, we don't need that question. Where are you? It's a stupid question. What do you mean? Where I am? Why you asking me where I am? I don't even I'm part of Hashem. After we ate from the Sadas, where am I? Who am I? Why? Why am I anxious? Why am I not anxious? You think they like me? You think they don't like me? You think it was a good podcast? It was a good sh. You think I'll get a standing ovation? You think they'll hire me again? You think I'm a good guy? You think I'm a loser? You think I'm a winner? Yeah. All these questions are postadas questions. But once I live in a postadas world, I have to work it through. So, Hashem says, somebody once asked him, Hashem didn't know where he is. So, Rashi says the famous answer, but he said it's a question Hashem asks every person every day. When I can ask myself that question, I can also begin to search what's going on. We also all need support systems. We need people with whom we can be honest. We need people with whom we can be vulnerable. There is no growth without vulnerability. You know from the he said such a beautiful he says you know in the we have so many relationships. We have brothers and sisters. We have brothers. We have parents and children. We have grandparents and grandchildren. Of course you have Adam and Kava and Cayenne and He and Asov and Yakov and Ysef and his brothers. all these all theish of so we have these we have of course teachers and students we have Hashem and the people but he says what about friends where do we have an experience of friendship insh and he says one place one place the speaks about friendship and it's not even really necessary to the story found a friend the says he found a friend His name was and they were friends. It says one more place. It says that Isra and Mosha are called Rayu but he was a father in love. The only friends that's not biological is Yehuda. So said why? Why here? And he says what happens in that friendship. Yehuda goes to Tamar. Right. Tar wants two goats. Yehuda says I'll send you. She says but I want a mashkin. So I want your seal. I want your belt. I want your stick. And then when Yehuda goes home, he sends the two goats. He sends his friend friend goes is searching for she's not here, right? So Yehuda says, "You know what? Let her keep my pen. This is going to come out soon on WhatsApp. It's good." So he says, "What's a friend?" A friend is somebody with whom you can share things that are embarrassing, right? Yehuda could share with his friend. However we explain, I'm not getting into the obviously Yehuda was but we're talking about relative to his level. A friend is somebody with who you could be vulnerable with. A friend who you're open with, a friend in whose presence you could think out loud. We all need that in our lives and usually more than one. Yeah. But it's very seldom. You can't you you know a friend is not somebody with whom I could sit by the kdish and eat jalapeno herring. I mean sit and eat jalapo herring. As long as you don't give it to me it's fine. So what you're saying is that we spoke about the bentov about the awareness that a person has to find themsself. The parents we're talking about the parents what we spoke about before that they are building their self-esteem. The parents are building their self-esteem. So they now can talk to their children about the subject about um personal safety right and then the children if the parents have self-esteem they can give self-esteem and then they teach the children about this subject and then the schools are getting involved that's what we thought when par when parents don't have self-esteem they can't give it to their children they don't have it what happens is our children become actually tools for our own self-esteem and it's a disaster of I'm basically waiting for my sons and daughters to give me nakas so I can have self-esteem like nakas machines. And when you're waiting for your children to give you self-esteem, you're not there for your children. They're there for you. And it's not supposed to be that way. Parents are supposed to be there for their children. Children are not supposed to be there for their parents. I mean, we hope our children will be there for us in in in a unique way and their own way. and is a big mitzvah. But as I'm raising my children, I'm not looking for my children to be able to say, "Rabbi, why were you such a good guy?" Right? Don't go to your children for compliments. And my child being a wonderful bker or a wonderful is not the basis of your self-esteem. It's not your credit either. It's not your credit. The is of the And it's not your God's children. Hashem has given you aus to polish these diamonds and show up to the best of our ability. But I have to tell you that this is a big avoid. It's a deep aid to be able to let go and not feel that we own them are supposed to control our children. And it's hard because when they're children, when they're babies, we're raising them. We take care of them. We pay their bills. We have a lot of ms for them. So it's really really hard as they get older to let go. But that is what avoid hashem means. Avoid hashem actually means when you can actually let go surrender to hashem and say I just want to be here with my children for my children with love with an open heart with curiosity as an evid hashem. And that means that I have to be there for each child. Tune in to who they are and where they are right now. Not where I want them to be. So I should be able to feel good and come home and say ah look what a good father and mother I am and look what my shabas table looks like. When we do by my shabas tableing like a symphony this is called I'm a success story but we all know in many homes got into a bad mood and va ran away and is on whatever it is that is a disaster. You're sitting yourself in the zinc and you're trying to scream on top of your lungs to deal with all of your anxiety. Can you really really let go? Can you really let go? A shabas table is meant to be a place of inner bliss. You cannot fake bliss. It's not going to come through force and it's not going to come through long. But that's not what it's about. It's about energy. It's about connection. It's about intimacy. And it begins with ourselves. I can't do that for other people. All I could do it is for myself. For yourself. And when I do it internally, it radiates. It just radiates. And that's where communication starts becoming easier. And that's when communication then is natural. It's not just easier. It's natural. It's natural. And you find these families. You're not looking how to make conversation. Yeah, it's organic. You're sharing. You're alive and you're sharing. It's like a a cup overflows. My cup overflows. What happens is you're filled. And when you're filled, it overflows. Right in the by benching in the right it's filled and then and when your cup is filled when your cup is filled it overflows in the dining room it overflows in the house. It's not like yeah one house the father is like what did you learn this week? Nothing. Why am I paying $18,000 tuition? Son is smart. He says, "Good question." I agree. I agree. I told you years ago I don't want to go to school. You know, checkmate. But the but the connection, the relationship, the the we can't forge, we can't fake. Now, this is not a war against discipline and against structure and order, right? But it's what's the baseline? You know, if the baseline is anxiety and bitterness and chaos, we're we're we're not going to be successful. Living up to the Joneses. I mean, was and and the and the moment they have independence, they're like, I'm out of here. If even if not physically, emotionally, the basis of structure and discipline, it's always from a place of connection. And connection can only happen when you're regulated and when you're in a place of deep, deep. And that's deep. It takes deep work. It's not I can't snap a finger and take a pill and and and drink a cup of mashka and get there. It's just not going to happen. No. Let me ask you, what is your take on while we're on the subject on people are sending their daughters babysitting or these sleepovers and all these type of things? And what do you think about this? Is this smart? I'm not in a position of of having the data and the knowledge to be able to really have a position on this. I think I would just say generally I think parents and educators must just be very very respons responsible and conscientious and one thing is you need to be in tune with your children. You need to know what's happening in that home. What's going on? Because you said before, if you have that relationship, that overflowing communication with your children, most of your children will be safe because they know what is going on and they know how to behave. But it's it is important to emphasize two things. Sometimes things happen in ways that are unexpected. Correct. And some parents did everything in their capacity to protect it and and you can't blame yourself because things sometimes happen in a way that ultimately you look up and you say, "God, I guess you want a different journey. I surrender." That's number one. When we start blaming ourselves, we don't help our kids. That's number one. Number two, we have to understand like this. Sometimes parents are really such good people. But children themselves are going through deep struggles. It could be because of a trauma. It could be because of an attachment wound. It could be emotional neglect. It could be something happened in school. Or it could even be something that they yan from previous generations. They call it today epigenetics. Sometimes in our genes there's something it doesn't even belong to us but these kids are manifesting it. So sometimes we have to realize we may be doing everything right but our children are going through difficult periods. And that's fine. Don't be discouraged. The worst thing is when you take it personal and it becomes a personal struggle like why doesn't she talk to me? Why why is he not open with me? I'm the best father in the world. I'm Rabbi Y Jacobson. Everybody comes to talk to me. Why can't my kids come to talk to me? Right? And then we lost it. We really then we we really have to regulate ourselves and show up for them without the expectation that they're going to respond because maybe he or she is right now in a difficult difficult phase of their life. And if I really want to help them, I just have to be able to show up for them unconditionally in a way that they can feel it and in the right time the seeds that I planted are going to produce tremendous results. So we have to realize sometimes we need sea and just show up with a smile with presence. When children know that their parents are there and that whatever they're doing is not destroying their parents' life. Sometimes when our children feel that not only did I leave Yiddish but I created in my family. Do you know how much guilt these kids have now besides his own pain he's now carrying he looks at his mother's eyes and his mother says I say the whole every day for you. What does that kid just hear? I'm the worst curse to society. And my poor mother who has ADHD and can't sit on a chair for six minutes is saying the whole till because of me. Wow, how much dysfunction that I create in this society. So, now you want this kid to heal. He has so much pressure on him. When our children can feel that their parents are fine and mommy are actually fine. They are fine. You know why? They work for God. They're not in Nakas testing. They're not trying to impress the community. They're not even trying to impress Tanta. There's always a tantag we're all trying to impress cuz you know I went to the mitzvah and she didn't even say hi this she didn't even say hi to tantagga there's always a tantagga we love tantagga we have nothing against tantagga tagga is a sadas but she doesn't know about this point when our children feel that our parents are fine and they're actually know how to have a good time and maintain a healthy vibe in the house despite a challenge of a It makes it so much easier for the child to go on his journey and find himself. It's so important. I tell parents, Rabbi Shiman Russell always says it in in our Kesha Navi group is put on the music and dance. Have a good time. Let the children feel Tati and mommy are going to have a good time. You want to join us for the party. We're going to leave extra popcorn for you. You don't want to join us for the party, don't worry. When we finish with the popcorn, we're going to bring it up to your room and we're going to leave it outside the door. It's hard. I know this is very hard. This takes a lot of a lot of humility and a lot of B to Hashem. A lot of B to Hashem. But the more we learn how to do this to remain anchored in our own divine connection, everything is so much healthier in the house. Even as our children go on journeys, correct? They have a nest that they can come back to because they knew that they did not destroy that nest. So, it's so important. Sometimes we think we care for our children so much and that's why we tell them how they destroyed our lives, right? That's not how you show care to your children. Your children knowing that they destroyed your life because they're not exactly the way you want them to be is not going to help them heal. As a matter of fact, it's going to be the opposite. What is your take that you know I know mikvah mikvah is is is you know it's it's very important mikvah is a big big thing but what do you think about sending children or young you talk young bkim with all kinds of ages coming because I know there are some advocates who always talking about that this must stop as much as much as how important this is there is even ideas that came up that bim should have their own kids should. But what what's your what are you thinking about it? The message from mothers who were sending their kids off to the mikvah not knowing being innocent. Listen like like in every situation mikvah is one of those places that can that can be that it's very holy but it can be a place of it could be a hazardous place. Um you know people have shared experiences that happen in the mikvah. So I think here again every responsible makan rebi rashiva mashia reba machir kata mama zaba need to be very very responsible. You have to address these issues. Well they have to you have to tune into your child. You have to know age appropriate if you want your children to go to the mikvah era of shabas or whenever it is no problem. Is there an adult responsible who's going to supervise them? Correct is to send a little kid at a time of the day when very few people are there. You know, I'm not talking about time when it's packed, but this is, I think, a decision that responsible parents need to make constantly. If it's a vulnerable place and he may be going at night and there's just going to be maybe one there, you have to be very, very careful. So I think this is something where you know we are all responsible not to put a anywhere. So I think this is awareness and the education awareness is very very critical. On the other hand, we should always emphasize the fact that especially for older people, you know, mikvah is a very very powerful tool of spiritual cleansing and people who have sensitive souls know very deeply that going to the mikvah is a very very powerful extremely powerful. Sometimes I'm, you know, people don't always know the power. I'm just saying this generally. I'm talking about adults and I'm talking about adults who are responsible. But when you when you're sensitive to the rhythms of your soul, uh, we understand very well what mikvah is. Mikvah is a very very deep uh very deep experience but it doesn't give no no justification to to make a kid liable cuz one wrong thing going in the mikvah can destroy his kadusha for the rest of his life of course. Yeah. So explain about this sensitive soul that what is what is give me a little bit of connection kabola and where this comes from coming I mean we have we have the concept of uh I think also from the var once said that we see that a g to become a Jew you need villa right so he said if mikvah can turn a into aid he said what can it do to aid if if in the mikvah right he has a new what does it do when you talk about right it wasn't because he was he was already but that means even within purity there's deeper and deeper and deeper to the point that he went five times in one day to the mikvah this is the kind it just shows us the power and really what we're dealing with is the mikvah the basic idea of the mikvah is going back to the most natural state of existence ance to the core. When a child is developed in the womb of its mother, it's in water. It's in the amniotic sack. Even when we come out of our womb, 70% of every single cell is made up of water. That means the most of our body is water. It doesn't look like it. It looks like most of it is kishka but most of it is not chol and kougal. Most of it is water. Mikvah is also it's natural, right? To make a mikvah, you need make you need natural natural water. It has to be. So you're dealing with which means may that I put into a kali is not good for a mikvah unless the miam touched the other water. And basically what that means from aidic point of view is that all cleansing. One other interesting thing is mikvah is a place where you can't survive. If you stay in the mikvah too long you can't really live. In other words, it's really a place of surrender. You're surrendering your whole identity and going into a source that actually if you would stay there, you wouldn't be able to live. But that's exactly the point. Certain humbleness also. Because there's a humility where you completely get lost in the source in Hashem. And even one strand of here out of the mikvah is nish good because surrender has to be complete. It's a frequency of absolute surrender and then you're almost reborn like the child coming out of the amniatic sack. That's why by the way before the relationship between a man and a woman there's mikvah because it's it's like a birth. It's a rebirth. That was the first mikvah were put into which was being irrigated by the and as the describes in parishes. So you the balatanya says that the 40 days of the mobble were the 40 of a mikvah. Why did make a marble? He could have just killed them like a plague like the answer is he wanted to make a t. The world needed a mikvah. The mo was 40 days. Yeah they were 40 days inside a mikvah. Literally they had to be inside a mikvah because because the earth became so corrupt they needed cleansing. So any soul that is very very sensitive and not everybody could feel this and it's fine. It's fine not everything that we have to feel but generally sensitive nishamas who are sensitive to spiritual rhythms know that when you go to the mikvah in the morning with mindfulness it's not going to the mikvah and sitting and talking gossip right about this and that and this what's up that. That's not what we're talking about. That's if I'm saying while I'm in the mikvah mikvah is really a very deep moment. It's a meditative moment of surrender from the bump you have. So that's why they were very careful about mikvah certainly shabas and shabas Monday and Thursday and many every day and I should also add one more thing and this is and that's called Ezra which means Ezra and his were mak and that if somebody is a balkari somebody sees seed so they shouldn't dav and learn t without going to the mikvah. Now afterwards they were matal that because it was simply impossible to have everybody go to the mikvah every time they were they were they were together with their spouses or they they were ai it was just impossible so they were that but bring that they weren't so it's not in but there's a you without especially there were on this but actually in it has a real source that according to some shittas even though it's not you with without Phillis Ezra. So there's there's something very powerful about it. Very interesting. Now back to what we was spo what we spoke before. Um if a person went through a hard time was a victim of molestation or abuse should he share this with his spouse? That's an amazing amazing question. I think this is a very very individual question. It depends where he's at in life and depends where she's at in life. She's a healthy girl. If if it's going to create a tremendous trauma in her life and it's going to create a disaster and she's going to become overly suspicious, he has to first discuss it with some people that have experience with this. If to say it, when to say it, how to say it. This is assuming that he dealt with it and he's not suffering from it. If he's still suffering from something and she's going to have to deal with a whole situation supposedly they're suffering for the rest of their lives with this. Okay. No, but they're suffering and suffering other if it's affecting the intimacy. If it's something that he's going to have to be dealing with and it's going to affect her, then before the marriage, she should know about our condition. Just like when there's a medical condition or there's an emotional condition, it's important before to be able to share it because this is an on her. this is about her life. If it's something that's completely of the past or at least 95% of the past and he's not really it's not a struggle that's going to affect her. So then that should be based on personal consultation. So I think you have to really know the matzah and the situation. Okay. So now I would want to jump over to a different subject that uh you were very vocal about also and your mish one of the few maybe there is a handful of raunam who actually had the guts and stand up for this which is the auna crisis and you were you were one of the few that actually stood up for the emiss and stood up again like we said before for the nduim Now what do you think about the fact that the people who maybe during their marriage they didn't they were not even such to Jews but when it comes to give a get they take the right that the tora gives them not to give a get now the question is the tora is the tora and we know that people are talking about prenups alic prenobs And uh what is really the solution? Is it a personality disorder that a certain percentage of people that we're dealing with with this aonas or this is even way bigger than that? What do what's your opinion on this subject? Yeah, it's an extremely painful painful subject and it goes right back to our discussion of correct. We're dealing with a group of people that are uh abusing their wives in horrific horrific ways. Just in parenthesis, I should say it's not always one way. Sometimes it's the other way. Sometimes the woman correct is doing is doing Yeah. is doing horrible things to the husband because of her stuff. Um so I just have to say that because people say, you know, you always talk about the men the men and in my case it was my wife who's driving me crazy. So I'm I'm acknowledging that. I'm acknowled. It's not always the z is the sadly sometimes is the and it's the opposite. I'm just putting that out there and that's true because I know both the the the the painful reality is as follows. says in unbelievable words he's speaking about shalom in that if you have only money to buy a shabas candle or a kaneka candle and it's Friday you have to buy a shabas candle and not light kaneka candles because kaneka candles is to celebrate the big miracle but shabas candles is for shalom and that comes first and the says hashem says erase my name and then adds these words. The whole was given to great peace in the world. The whole what it's based on say what the Ram is teaching us is when you're not lighting Khan candles because of Shalomas in a way you're actually lighting Kaneka candles. You know why? Because the purpose of and everything else is if by lighting candles I'm not going to have shalom. I don't need you. I don't need you. Go home and light a candle so that your wife and your children to be able to have peace in the h and have a beautiful shabas. That's the idea. What this is teaching us is something so powerful. God says if you want to erase my name, erase my name. You're erasing. You know probably yeah from I think the said this he says it says that Hashem does every mitzvah that we do the say puts on. So he has a question. Yeah, says how is the mid of he loves Jews. How is the mitzvah of says he's afraid what you're going to do? But how is he? The answer is Hashem says erase my name. Erasing Hashem's name is a serious thing. Hashem's name is not just letters. It's the you're erasing. It's a form of so the whole is based to bring peace into the world to use to use to used to use to use to be able to create such abuse and such pain to keep women or men in shackles for so many years. It's not enough the abuse they went through their whole marriage. Now they can't even get out of the marriage 101 15 years later. And how a community can support this is unthinkable. And that's why it's so important. It's so important. Every woman needs a support system. She can't do it on her own. She needs Rabanam to support her. She needs businessmen to support her. She needs lawyers to support her. She needs friends to support her from every angle to deal with it. There's dealing with it in one way and dealing with it in another way. Every woman needs a group of supporters to be able to be there for her. And why is it that people are doing this? You know, it could be so many reasons. There could be mental illness. There could be personality disorder. There could be a person who's just very very very abusive, extremely abusive. Now, why is the person becoming abusive? Some some of us become animals in our own crazy way. We're trying to protect ourselves somehow for this husband to give in and give a get brings out the worst. He'll fight he'll rather die in shame and disgrace and be isolated but not give a get. And you have to look at it and like say, "Wow." and do whatever whatever we can and you know sometimes the people can be treated sometimes they can't be treated right we have a in in it's a very sensitive and only a real can administer that and that is that sometimes you beat you beat the man until he says I want and the says how can you do that it's a forced get and the says if made up soak that he has to give a get and he's a yided every Jew. So when you beat him and he says, he's actually saying the truth. He's saying the truth because it's because he really wants it. Yeah. Of course, you have to make sure it's not a whatever. There's a lot of about it. We're not I'm not a I'm not going to get into that because it's not my authority in today's world, right? So, so today's day we know what happens when you try to do a so it's very very not simple and and you have to right we need to be able to follow the law for more than one reason but it's so important for a community not to create a h a safe haven for criminals why is he getting an aliyah why is he welcome in shul why is he being honored at a dinner a person needs to know when he comes into a bakery he goes into a who goes into a that's that that's we are as a community we are not allowed to tolerate people who are abusing innocent people we're not allowed to do it this is our basic responsibility as a society and if I have a beard and I put on and I go to the mikvah in the morning and I keep shabas and I make sure to have 36 but if If I don't realize that the most important thing of being a Jew is to protect innocent women and innocent children and innocent men and innocent people from abuse. So who's responsible for that? Is it the or the or the who are responsible? Because the who's responsible for it is you and me and every individual. You and me none of us could say correct. Yeah. I have a shaw. I never I never threw out anybody from my shaw ever. And I always prayed and hoped that I will never have to. And then came a day that I was forced to. There was a man who was not giving a get to his wife and it was going on for a few years. I thought Rabbi Wy with his gift of gab will be able to persuade persuade him. I spent I don't know how many hours on the phone. I don't know how many hours on letters and emails. And I thought, I'm so convincing. I'm not blaming you. I'm not denigrating you. I'm actually giving you an opportunity for a good life. Right? Listen to me. I'm not your enemy. I'm not your enemy. I was I was unsuccessful. Hours, hours, hours. And then I'm like, wow. I'm the one talking about this. And in my sh there's somebody who's not giving a get to his wife. and he's coming to my sham and he's a good tal a good tup a good student walked a long long long walked long to come to my sham so I also liked it I had a person and then I'm like I'm going to be the first hypocrite here in society I'm talking about it that community shouldn't tolerate it and I have right here and it's not enough because I have a woman in my community who didn't get a get for 15 years also my community so I'm like wow Robert you're doing really well right you're doing really well you know wow amazing you're scoring well two people in your community both without one not one is the victim and one is the perpetrator and I did something I never did before and I went over and I said I am so so sorry the day you give a get I give you a global kabalas punim I put out the red carpet I'll stand up and give you a standing ovation and then you're welcome but till you don't give a get don't step foot into sh do not step foot into sh I have to say a few months ago the person gave a get and he's back in sh he's back in But I think every one of us has to ask ourselves, there's no such a thing today. I'm a private citizen. I don't have an impact. Fine. You know, today changes happen on a grassroots level. It used to be that you went to the vaas, you went to the rashka and you said make a change. Today what I'm finding is and I don't think it's a bad thing if it's done with your real changes are happening on a grassroots level in it's called it's from the people it's from the masses getting together it's from says so there's already a for that so I think all things when every individual says you know what am I going to do different tomorrow right certainly certainly and people of influence and people with money and lawyers and and spiritual leaders. Obviously, obviously, you know, you always, you know, my father had algus. He once wrote an article, I remember the title cup. What was that all about? It was about a particular yeshiva that promised the Bnim that if they would learn Babashra, they would get a nice I think it was $1,000. Yeah. you know, you know, 176 daff and there were guys who did it and these didn't have money and they didn't they didn't they didn't pay and I don't know I guess my father got a wind of it and he wrote an article he wrote an article how learned to hold and so I I remember the title stinct from cup that's what I remember stink from cup yeah I remember that paper well now what is it fair to say that what you're saying is that if a wife or husband If there is a get, if if if she wants a get, the get should be given. Then you can sit down. You can even go to court. If I have a hat, figure out custody, figure out the finances. What does the get have to do with anything? This is a toy digger thing. You don't just because you're on this side of the aisle gives you the power to go around and with a knife. Listen, asam has a beautiful expression. And he says to force a woman to live with a man simply does not make sense. It does not make sense if there's potential for both of them to work it out. We don't look to give a get if there's goodwill on the wife's son and the husband's side and they say listen if we could make it work we'll make it work. I get it right. I get it. If you could persuade them to try more we should always do that. But when somebody is gungho, I am never going back into this marriage. Maybe they're making a mistake. Maybe. Right. But if if this is what they are, maybe they're making, maybe they're not. I don't know. This husband was telling me, "My wife is completely sick. She's influenced by the go and the secularist divorce. She really has a good life. She really has a good life." I spoke to the woman. She's like, "That's what he always said." But I had a miserable, miserable marriage and life. So what I'm going to tell her, you didn't have a miserable life and miserable marriage. Miser I'll try. I'll try. Maybe you can go to therapy. Maybe there could be some help. Maybe there's trauma healing. Yes, of course. But ultimately at the end of the day, you have to give people the dignity of deciding if they want to stay in a marriage or not. Both ways. Both ways. A husband and a wife. Now it's very very important and this is where it becomes sensitive and this is where I think we all need to beg and plead and explain to every parent. Never use your children as a missile. and an instrument to destroy your spouse even if you hate them. Maybe your wife is a marshas. Maybe your husband is the Russia of the generation. Maybe. But for your children, she is their mother. He is their father. Unless they're not safe with them, unless somebody's abusing them or h beating them and and destroying them. But when we use our children as a missile in order to take revenge in our spouse, it's one of the greatest mistakes we can make. You have a lot of resentment. You have a lot of pain. I get it. And deal with it. And nobody's telling you that your ex should be your best friend and should be, you know, the person who is your role model of inspiration. I get it. And you need boundaries and everybody needs boundaries and you need to protect your children. But when we start using our children because of our personal vendettas and I get it. It makes sense. And we take them away from one of the parents and we use them to be able to torture the other person. What a cataclysmic mistake for these kids. The suffering that they have. Not only was the family shattered. There's no Shabas and Yumpt with both parents, which okay, that's that that's a sad thing, but that we can deal with now. It's the pain that they're in between, right? The fighting they're in between. And it's just something we really Yeah. It's horrible. It's horrible. You know, I was invited to a Bitzvah a number of years ago. It's It's so painful to say. The husband made a The father made a bitzvah for his boy. They're divorced and he made a big big bum mitzvah in Flatbush and he wanted to give his kid a beautiful evening. So he spent a lot of money. He invited everybody. It was a beautiful bameitzvah. And at the end she didn't let the son show up. The bitzvah boy the mitzvah boy didn't come. So the father is at the bitzvah. It's beautiful. All of his friends came. It's beautiful. And the mamitzvah boy is not there. This was her revenge. This was her revenge. And I was I was called I as I was asked if I could come to comfort the father. He was like an ovel at a bitzvah event for his son. He was like sitting shiva there. Can I come to comfort the father? Now what was the mother thinking? I don't think she was thinking. Yeah. When this kid he's going to grow up one day. He's going to be 18. He's going to find out what happened. What do you think he's going to think about his mother at the time? And the same is true decisions that the father makes. A woman told me she had a deal that pes she was supposed to have her kids, four kids. They're divorced. She's divorced. And he was supposed to drop them off of Pesak. She cleaned the house for Pes. She prepared for the seder cuz she was having four kids. A half an hour before then, he called her and he said, "I'm sorry, it's not going to work out. The kids are not coming to you." A half an hour before, the house is spotless. She cleaned it for a month. She cooked and prepared for the seder. And she told me she did the seder alone. She was too broken to even ask a neighbor or a relative or a family member to go to their seder. She did the seder alone and it took her, she told me 25 minutes, the whole seder. Some people would think, "Wow, I wish my seder was 25 minutes." But she said most of the seder I cried. I cried for the for the pain, you know, the pain. Um uh my point is like when hatred and jealousy take over there is no problem we become irrational people gratefulness we throw God to the to the dogs we throw our children to the dogs we throw our children to the dogs and and we we we simply we need to heal we need to say okay this was a horrible marriage maybe he's has narcissistic personality disorder maybe she has borderline personality. I get it. I get the pain. I'm not delegitimizing the pain. So now imagine if you're suffering. What about the children who carry his jeans and carry her jeans? Don't you want to make their life as as pleasant as pleasant as possible? Unbelievable stuff what you're saying. I have a few final final questions that that I want to finalize with you and they're personal. you were on a podcast not long ago and you were saying that Rabbi Waway is a human being also. Um my question to and how and how and how you're human being just like everybody else. So my question to you is you uh come across as a person with a lot of self-esteem and a big and you get up and you speak. I heard once the labba said I think a room freed the singer shared this on shared this on a place and he said that he told him before a concert put in saddapushka and after the concert you'll be fine my question to you is when you prepare to for this presentation so you give a sh or there's so much stuff that you and you have a yeshiva also yeshiva yeshiva the yeshiva.net yeshiva.net No, this is a yeshiva. You can find everything about Rabbi Y or that yeshiva. But the idea is do you have a ritual? Do you have do do you speak to the bunch? Do you um do you have something before you you go in and and and you do your thing? Well, there's two aspects. One is the you know the the more practical side and one is the more spiritual side. The more practical side is I prep I have prepared for many years very very well. I worked hard hard on my preparations and I was like at least I tried. The second thing is the more spiritual side and that is the conversation with the is always happening. Um the only change I can hope that I will be able to affect in people is as much as I'm ready to change myself. It's literally so it's my own learning, my own davining, my own growth, my own inner work, my own marriage, my own emotional work. uh the the deeper I go, the more authentic I go, the more it comes out. And there's no shortcuts for that. Correct. It's not like you have a performance. It's it's every time you teach and every time you do something, it this is the authenticity that I try. I I try I try because uh there's nothing that replaces authenticity and there's nothing that replaces being a channel, being a tinner. Correct. Um, the moment I think I own it and it's about me, it's about Rabbi Y being a big celebrity or being a big rabbi or being famous or being successful, which are all human emotions. I have my animal soul and I have my ego, but if that if that hijacks my brain, it's a disaster, right? It's a disaster for the people. They may not know it cuz I may do a good performance, but it's even a bigger disaster for me and I know it. I always know it. Right. So you would say you do his bunniness and his brotherness. Yeah. I mean in in in the tradition of kabatis where I was molded and that's you know really I spent so much time learning it and and developing it. His ban is really a multifaceted experience. It's learning but after that the key is what the bal calls and then so it's it's curiosity. Openness being open it's learning bina and then das that's the key das is the intimate application the regulation translating it into my nervous system somatic experience of it only after that can there be a different type of communication then there's communication without defenses without trying to impress without trying to get validation of course it's always nice to get beautiful feedback and I'm very grateful for that but it's always it's a very deep energetic experience it's always a question. Am I here ultimately to grow my name and become popular and I'm using it in a good way? Okay. So, I'm not I'm not telling people to go, you know, uh steal from the bank and be fraud, you know, fraudulent. So, fine. Yeah. You know, maybe or it's ultimately really about being a channel for Hashem's uh truth and love. And that's a very very deep uh deep question. And the more there's no fast answer to that. The more I work on myself, the more I could be in one space at least more time than in the other space. That's really what it's about. That's nice. Who is your role model? My wife is a very very big role model for me. Amazing. And uh and Hashem has blessed me with some very special individuals who have served as mentors really as mentors in difficult situations and and life journeys and I still can turn to them. Uh, and how is the how is the wife uh what kind of impact does your wife make on you? My my wife has always held up a mirror to my most authentic self rather than to my fake self. She's always held up that mirror and she stubbornly refused to let go of that mirror. So, it uh it stimulated my most beautiful parts in very beautiful ways. Wow. It's amazing that you can say that. Yeah. And it's true. It's actually true. Anybody who knows my wife knows that it's the truth. Amazing stuff. She's the opposite of me. I'm out there and she's, you know, she's a because, you know, truth truth comes out. Yeah. Beautiful Rabbi Y your speeches, your inspiration, whatever you do for the cloud is a breath of fresh air. And for people who are looking for the emas and people who are looking for the truth, people who have a heart, they wish and they pray that you should continue to go. Amen. You should even come out stronger and bigger and not fear and and and stand for the truth and stand for the way you do. Amen. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. and thank you for your work and may we be channels to be able to channel the infinite light into the world. Thank you very much. Thank you. Let's look.