The Struggle Podcast EP 29-Rabbi Nochem Kaplan - Our children deserve better!

When is it the right time to throw out a child from school? >> Right? >> I used to have a program to catch children being good. Build self-confidence. Build self-confidence. >> Some parents are living for an image. They're living for the neighbors. >> You need a good psychologist. >> Yeah. Give a couple of pets. Yeah. Let them know, you know, who's the boss over here. You know, you see children walking in the street with their parents. How often is there a conversation going on about what the child wants to talk about? Self-improvement doesn't stop until it's over. >> Parents don't know how to deal with this. You see little kids in carriages today with iPads. Where's this going? And how should a parent deal with this? >> Okay. We are honored to sit down today with Rabbi Nuhim Kaplan. Rabbi Nuim Kaplan is a master educator seasoned in uh for many years. What is it around >> 55 >> 55 years? Wow. Um you are also chairman of national accreditition board and you are also uh the director of merkas office of which of >> central above. >> Wow. Rabbi Kaplan brings a rare combination of Toyota based values and an expertise in um education what children need today. Welcome to the podcast. >> Thank you. Thank you for having me. Now before we get into um and we want to talk about children and we want to talk about the relationships between rabbis and the shashivas and teachers with the children. Is there a time ever according to your teachings according to your rabbi and according your is there a time that you can ever expel a child from school? I'll tell you a story. First is first story. Um I had a bungalow many many moons ago in uh the country and Mosha Feinstein was in a hotel, Zuker's hotel in the Catskills. >> Yeah. In the Catskills, not very far from me. >> For whatever reason. So I would go see him and I went to see him and I most of the time he was he was my okay he was learning and I would kind of hang around to see if he would pick up. I went over and asked him questions. One of the things I asked him was when is it the right time to throw out a child from school? >> Right? >> Every man is the problem. So he said he asks me this is I'm quoting I said yeah I said oh that's one story second story I was the principal of a high school in Philadelphia and it was the only girls high school in Philadelphia and one of the girls a 10th grader but in a way that I couldn't compromise already so I threw her out called in the parents together with her I can't have you here the next day the call me up what's going to be with the child I said I can't here's what happened. Where's the I said, but everybody's watching. How can I go over here? And I didn't take the child back. A few hours later, I get a call secretary, and he says to me, I said, "Yeah, I told her what happened." She said, Whose is it? I said it's appearances. But this this is what happened. I mean he says I understand you can't have her in your because others going to learn from it but it's your responsibility to find her another place >> place or some place. >> My responsibility. >> Never thought about it. >> Your responsibility. So let me know when you find a place for her kids. I sent her to Lakewood there was a good friend of mine. I told him she's a good girl. She'll learn from this. Okay. He took the girl. A year later kids get ready to go to seminary. She come shows up. Why are you coming to me? Because you care. I see. So we talked a little bit. I guided her a little bit. I came to Shikim. I was no longer in Philadelphia. She looked me up. I was in New York in Queens. >> She came to me. I said, "You had nobody to talk to. You went to say, "Oh, Rabbi Kaplan, you already asked me the question. I trust you. You care about me." and Schl's problems and problems years. She came to me. >> That's the answer. >> Because it's my kid. It can't be in my but it's my kid. That's what I was taught. Then that's powerful stuff. There was a friend of mine who had an older brother from he was from Canada and he was in the dormatory indict and they had to throw him out. the you're out and uh he threw away the whole mitzvah everything even when he was in yeshiva already and uh he went and he was mats whatever he was doing not important and suddenly I hear he's and I like film and chabis and he got married so I asked his brother who was a friend of mine. What what changed here? So he says you when he's walking out of yeshiva who was the walked over to him and hugged him and started to cry and said, "Listen, we have to throw you out. You understand? You understand? But we love you so much. So we wish you the greatest measure of success." and he was crying like a baby. He says, "Those tears I never forgot and that hug I never forgot." >> Yeah. >> But I never forgot those tears. >> It's a tremendous message. We want to get to the to the core of the first the problem is as far as the parents to be on the same page. The two parents have to have the same goal and the same values. And not only that, they have to their mental health, their shias, something in the house before you even start of sending the kids off to school and you know pointing fingers at the teacher or kids falling behind. How important is it to have your life um in place in a in a in a right place for >> look we know that children are a reflection of what goes on at home in the early years. >> Correct. >> Clearly. So that goes without saying that if there's no shim bias at home and the parents are not on the same page and if they have divergent opinions as to what means the kids going to be suffering >> and if they're not lined up with what the the rabbies are saying in school >> that's the second step independent of the rabbis independent of >> first the house >> before you get there they need to be on the same page they need to have the same goals for the children and the same approach. You can have a bad cup, good cup kind of thing, >> but the approach must be the same. Their goals, their objectives, and how they go about it. >> You want a kid to be comfortable in his own skin, self-confident. Uh that that comes from parents who >> peaceful home. >> And the parents are teaching that, >> right? >> They pick up the children. And they compliment children >> because in reality the parents are the ones who are responsible to to be the children which are sending him off and we're paying a few dollars for somebody to do in the Yeah. But really it's the parents's responsib >> right >> and the father's busy so he gives a so so if it's a dysfunction in the house you will find it on the children. You find that also >> reflective all the time. >> Yeah. >> You talk to a child. Okay. I was a principal for 30 years. So, uh whenever I interviewed a child, I could rightly see in 15 minutes what the matzah mishim bias was. >> Right. You see it right away. >> Yeah. >> And it's can't hide it. >> And how important is it for the teacher to to uh detect that, not just look at the child is like this child is ADHD or whatever, call it whatever you want. I would never let a Mhammed, a teacher look at last year's records at the beginning of the year, >> right? Because I remember when we were children, the this when we we went up a grade, the Rebi said, "I spoke to the last year's Rebi and I know what's going on." >> I didn't let a teacher ever look at last year's until three or four months into the year. You have to come with a clean slate. >> Right. So this was your advice for teachers is when they start >> my demand >> it's like advice that was what I didn't let them look at the records they didn't have any access to the records >> and they would come to me say I don't something is here I don't know what it is I'm not sure >> can I put my finger on it >> right >> I I let them explore a little bit before I let them look at the records >> right and as far as the relationship with the parents with the children uh I'm talking about safety and have open talk. you you build this child's self-esteem before he goes to school because when this child comes and he and he goes comes to school and he's being bullied or he's being you know kids could be kids and even how important what is it for a parent to know that before you send off the child you have to have a relationship with the child that body awareness what is your advice for parents before they send off a child to to to a school bias that's the issue the most important thing is for a child to be self-confident. I'll tell you a story. A Yid of mine, his name is Dr. Alzkar. So Alamemed was a professor at Stern College and he had to meet him also at YU but >> but he taught at Stern College and he once brought by a Talmet of his who was just going into the field of he brought him by to get from now was a momentary thing The Reba looked you in the eye, a little bit of wine kosh and you walked down, you know, thousands of people came by in a couple of hours and sometimes you could say a word sometimes. So alter says to the looked up for a second and the other fellow had already preceded him in the line and he was already farther down in one second looked up and looked at him and said build self-confidence. Build self-confidence. That's what it's all about. >> Yeah. >> Build self-confidence in a child. If the child is self-confident at whatever stage in life he is in, he will be >> right. >> The work of a malam and the work of parents is to build self-confidence. Compliment the child to know the child's strengths. You have to know how to compliment the child. Help the child overcome weaknesses, deficits, etc. And where there are problems, deal with them. >> Yeah. Don't hide your head in the sand and say my kid is is be real about your kid. Deal with issues if they if there are any how they come up and most importantly compliment. Let the child know you love him and that will build his self-confidence. >> Wow. And what's interesting is also that if there is a bias in the house, the children become self-conident. If they come to school uh comfortable knowing that there's peace in the house, these two parents are there for me and they get along. That alone builds a self-conidence. >> That's the first step. >> Yeah, that's what you were saying before. >> That's the first step. But there are many other steps. >> Complimenting a child properly, recognizing the child's midest, developing midas, >> all that is the parent does it at home. >> Right. >> It doesn't happen in a vacuum. Right now the your style the way you're going has you were like very much involved with the Reb. You were always asking and it's it's running on the Reb's the Reb style of of teaching. >> Yes, that's what this book is about. >> Yeah. What's the name of that book? >> The education imperative. >> Imperative. And what is that book all about? >> It's just in a nutshell in very small >> snippets what the were. for all stages, for parents, for misters. >> So, >> so what was his message to parents >> in a nutshell? >> In a nutshell, difficult, but you know there is nothing that parents get involved with for which they have so little experience and it is so absolutely essential imperative as the training their children. no experience and suddenly you have the greatest responsibility to be able to do it properly. life. >> Yeah. >> Without you, you have nothing. It doesn't happen by itself. You have to focus on it. Doesn't happen by itself. Spend time thinking about it. >> Yeah. >> The Reb wanted parents to focus on exclusively on a regular basis daily. What does my child, what do my children need? >> Yeah. Think about think carefully what's happening how the child's developing what can I do to further the >> right and what was his message to the teachers to >> build self-confidence >> yeah self-confidence is the most important >> bottom line >> yeah whichever way you do it but build self-esteem >> self-esteem self-confidence is even more than self-esteem you need to be confident that I can >> right >> I used to say to teachers Your job is to see that every child experiences success every day. >> Right? >> The child needs to feel successful. Throw him a low ball. Ask him a very simple question. Compliment him on the answer. Regardless of what it is, the child will say, "I was good. I was successful." >> Right? >> And you have to do that on a daily basis. every day every every Mhammed to every child show him that he can be successful. Now what's interesting is that I used to hear this that they were malam and they were and teachers who who used to know the names of the children and their their their mother's names to say tillum for them the relationship that they had they didn't they didn't treat it like a 9 to5 they didn't punch a car they come in they have a job because I know malamdom and mankam will come in and they just do it as a job Nothing different than working in a store. And there are kids who are going through the system who had never had a relationship with a malamut or with a man. Never put his arm around the kid and never made a difference. He never became a role model. He just went through like a 9-to-f5. But it is not a nineto-5. First of all, the gimora teaches us over and over. I'll throw in a gima quickly. us went once in 13 years to check out a little field that he had bea. >> Yeah. >> But he was a Mhammed. So he went 13 years had passed since he was there last. And he came in to check the field out and a colleague asked him all of a sudden where are the kids? You left your kids. you left your or you left your you left that which you need to be doing. >> So says I'm thinking about them here too. I'm thinking about him. So what does the kid get out of it? The kid gets everything out of it. If the malama doesn't think about the kid when he's not in the classroom, >> then the kid has nothing. You can't limit yourself to the time in the classroom. And that's what Bash was saying. I have to think things through. I happen to be in my field, but I'm thinking about the kids >> because it's not just a job. That's what it is. It's not just a job. This is playing with people's lives. >> The whole future. The whole >> future. This will shape a child's future to the next level. >> Without question. Now what about parents um want to be very friendly to the kids. They are like best friends and they're like almost like where is the balance of a certain respect and and and being like you said compliment the kids and be soft to the kids but there should be a certain balance between the parents between respect and being friendly. I used to say to parents, you can be the child's friend. Friend means I care about you. I think about you. >> But you're not his pal, >> right? >> His pals are in the yeshiva and on the playground. >> You're not his pal, >> right? >> So remember there's a over here, >> right? You are in one place and the job that you are charged with is to help the child appreciate the fact that is a mitzvah and that the difference between younger and older people who are older and the moment you bring down that barrier you've destroyed it. You can preach from today till tomorrow >> right now. How would a how what would you say to parents who you know they have expectations their kids have to be perfect? How should a person understand? Does it have to do with understanding there is a there's the runs the show you're not in control you're not in charge because they are expecting perfection from the kids. So for a person to really parent well has to accept the imperfections >> and the parents are perfect. >> There's the >> most of the time when the parents expect perfection. >> They're not perfect >> because they're projecting themselves into the child. They know the child has their imperfections and their shortcomings. So I'm going to beat him up and he's going to become better, you know. >> Yeah. >> It's silliness. >> There's no such thing as perfection in a child. And parents have no right to expect perfection in anything in anybody. >> Why do parents sometimes feel that they're failures? Which means that a parent, there are two parents who put in their best and they do their job, but maybe by a certain age, maybe even the child is 18 or 20, they feel that this is a report card and they're embarrassed like this is this is my past. This is what I brought up. What should a person know that you this is not this child is not a report card. This child is a human being. Self-esteem and the self-confidence that we were talking about is missing in the parents. What would you say to a parent like that? >> By the time the child is 18, it's too late to teach him anything. >> Right? >> So let's start earlier, >> right? >> Understand your child. Understand his imperfections as you call them. Yeah. >> Uh I don't want to use the word shortcomings, but his particular needs, >> right? >> Help the child overcome whatever special needs he might have. And then when you look at the child at 18, you'll say the child is self-confident. as I mented on him. What what's the difference? >> Right? But it's the self-esteem that the parents need also to their relationship. I feel that the the parents are living for some parents are living for an image. They're living for the neighbors. They would care. You need a good psychologist >> because what happens is that they care more what the neighbors are going to say to the well-being of the child. >> You seeing this? You seeing this? >> You see it sometimes. It's it's uh not something that you can really work with. You need to have a professional work with the parents to say look you you look at your problems rather than looking at the child. >> Right. Because it is affecting the child in a terrible way. >> Again bias. >> Yeah. Everything >> it all starts from there. That that's that's the foundation from there. >> Yeah, that's the foundation. Now, you would say that if a person before a person comes into school or it comes to the principal or comes first evaluate what's going on in the house, is that what you're saying? Evaluate. You start when you get married. >> Yeah. The very first thing is this the esteem that you give to the spouse. Does the the child as he's even very young see that you appreciate your spouse each one of them. >> Wow. >> Appreciate he learns from that. He learns a tremendous amount. >> You teach by example is >> by example. Are you mad? Your wife is your wife. You are you acting like uh the mazal? Are you denigrating your spouse? Are you looking for imperfections? Or you trying to build your spouse? And the child sees these things. And the child sees you try to build each other up and him up. So he feels better. He feels self. He feels a sense that I am a person regardless of what it is. And I can be successful. >> Yeah. >> That's the key that you have to make the child a success. if he's self the self-esteem the self-confidence he'll be successful in whatever he does. Now parents um a lot of times are taking very serious their values. you know, they're yiddish kite and we're talking about children who don't want to don't, you know, they're rebellious a little bit and and and how important is it the minimum the le the you know because sometimes people will mix will mix the you know yiddish is yishkite and everybody has their their way their mahalak but then there are things that the children at this point in time you became rebellious not sure why but whatever the case is and they take it the next level to the point that um they will throw him out of the house or you can't do this at my not in my house. This is not happening at my table is is minimum which is very important. I mean you know we're all yeden and we're all this minimum is is is a tremendous thing. What's your advice for parents when it comes when they find themselves when they see a rebellious teenager? The first thing is yeah you give him a couple of patch yeah let him know you know who's the boss over here. Unfortunately, Unfortunately, patch doesn't have to come with the hand or with a fist. >> Right. >> A very derogatory word to a child is just as you know they they say Yiddish >> you say true >> you say something to a child and they will never forget it and they'll never forget it >> for all their lives. All their lives. So the first thing is set the stage before you get to the there's going to be rebellion in children. That's the nature. They're looking for independence and for some people it becomes a greater focus and for some children it's a lesser focus. But every teenager is going to be a bit rebellious regardless of what you do. So they'll listen to the Mhammed more than the parent and what whatever it is they feel I'm I'm marking my territory. I want to be independent of you. >> That's natural. Now, if the child is self-confident and he knows what the parent wants and the parent will have discussed with him the importance of a lavouch, the importance of whatever it might be, discussed it at an early age and explained what's going on. So, the child grows, learns with it, and appreciates it. I'll give you an example. I have a son-in-law who has a kabad house in downtown Baltimore. >> His eldest son who is now a 21-year-old but uh then he was a nine-year-old kid and was there for a shabas and they didn't have a minion. It was in the middle of the summer. They didn't have a minion in in their house in their kabad house. They had to walk to the local campus which was a half hour walk. I when I came there on Friday I said to my sedum maybe we should leave a talis over there in shuls so we'd have to walk in the heat you know says no no no I want to wear a talis when I walk in the street >> sure it didn't occur to me what the issue was he wants to wear talis the talis okay so I dropped off my talis but he walked with his talis and I'm walking with my and he says to me my anacl says to me so you're not wearing a talis But Tati is wearing a talis. So why is he wearing a talis? Thinks from because he says good chabas to everybody. So everybody knows it's shabas when he passes by. Oh that's why he's wearing the tales. Everything changed. >> This is important. >> The value from from walking. >> Now you could talk a hundred times. He never would have understood. >> He got the message loud and clear. Right? >> I'm going shabas in the street but aid says chabas and I remind him it's shabas. That's why he wanted to wear a talis. >> The child learns vicariously by how the parent behaves. By the time he's 16 or 17, he's rebelling. He has reason. He understands why and what. I used to tell parents if you have a choice to make a choice in a minute or whatever it is that that the child is going to see and view and you want him to understand sit down say you know there is this mic there is that mimic I have a choice to make I'm choosing this because so the child at an early age knows there's a reason for it >> my father made this choice because >> right >> he may have made a choice for me but does it because it was a choice. So the child has learned something. He learned that there is reason behind it. He's learned that my father had two in front of him and he made the choice. I will also have different in front of me. Some are positive and I want to stay away from the negative. It impacts the child, >> right? >> When he knows what the choice was and why I made a choice, >> right? It's not like he just did it because it's supposed to be this way. I want a choice. >> Yeah. >> You explain it to him. It's a huge point >> from from an early age, >> right? >> And then there are children who are rebellious regardless. >> Yeah. >> A rebellious child, as I said, the patch is not going to help. >> No. >> The kid of Adas is going to help. Let him understand. Talk to him. Talk to him. Even what he talk to him about his things that interests him, >> the subjects not that you're interested in, but listen to him. Yeah. >> You know, you see children walking in the street with their parents. How often is there a conversation going on about what the child wants to talk about? >> Now, in your 55 years of do you see a major shift that they used to a child used to listen different and they used to accept things differently. what do you see? Listen, we all know that the world has changed, >> right? It's changing every day. >> This is even culture evolves. >> Yeah, >> of course it's evolved. It's not the same world that I grew up in. No, >> we had different parents, survivors, you know, there's no comparison to what we experience as children as to what the children are experiencing. >> Although there's tremendous tora and tremendous going on. >> Wonderful. Wonderful. But it's it's of a different ilk >> and you you need to talk to your child not on what you you remember you father your father talked to you about. >> What does a child need? >> What does that what do I want my child to hear? No, >> it's another. >> Yeah. Now, in as far as your advice and the that you're involved with you also, where did you change your way? Where did you see that you changed your way that we can't do what we did before? We have to pivot. My whole life is based on that. >> Every year you have to rethink is this going to work in every class. Is this going to work? I'm with every child is this going to work. There's no such thing as doing as repeating what I did last year and expecting it to work next year. >> It's a different class. It's different children. It's different time. Expectations change. You have to relate not to what you want to teach but what the child is capable of learning. What the class is capable of learning. >> Right. >> What what do you think about because there's a lot of talk about it. Toxic parents. toxic parents and parents make more damage than good and I'm sure you went you've seen everything you've been around the corner now there's an issue of there are easier children there are tougher children and sometimes parents will choose children um you know like bad vegetables the people the kids who give them a hard time they wouldn't care they don't care what if they have a learning disability the the the the PTA is going to give me a hard time they don't even show up. How how does that affect a child? And what kind of a wake up to these parents? What can we say to these parents? They used to say that your first battle is going to be with the teacher in the kindergarten because you want your child to be a little bit forward and the child is not getting all not being and then it's going to be in the first grade because in the first grade he wants to be in the top group and this is the second group >> and then it's going to be in the third grade and then you're going to fight with the principal and you fight with the PTA also and then get ready for a whole life of misery, >> right? The child needs to know that expectations of me are real. But there are expectations. Every child will rise to meet expectations if he's encouraged, >> right? >> If he sees success, you can expect I can push push a little bit. Given the child's talents and abilities I can higher expectations expectations in an area with and you explain to a child last year you were not capable this year you are cap story I was a principal in Philadelphia and I once went to the Philadelphia yes and I met with Kamki yeah >> so he has an office which is above the bis medish. Bismet is downstairs and his office butts the bismet from above. And he opens the little window and he can see the entire bismdish in front of him and he sees how the are relating to the talim, how the tamid relate to one another and he makes notes for himself. I need to talk to this one. I need to talk to that one and so forth. >> All from up there. >> All from up there. The alf. Then he says to me, "Open up the the door in file drawer. Take out any any file you want from here. Look at a file folder. Take a look at it. Tell me what you see." I looked through the folder. I said, "Well, there are some things that seem to have been written at a much less mature age and then there is writings that seem much more mature." He says, "I tell every child, every Talmid when he comes in, I want you to write down a 14-y old kids twice, sometimes three times a year, write something down." And he puts it in a file. >> And next year, do the same thing again. In the 10th or 11th grade, if a child's getting a little bit a little bit a little bit, he calls him upstairs, take out your folder. This is what you did last year. This is what you're capable of doing now. Look what you look Look at this what you wrote this last month. You see how much you grew a Talmet is there six years a regular basis. He will check and let the Talmet check how I have grown. >> Right? >> He builds self-esteem. I'm being successful. I'm not looking at somebody else's folder. It's my folder. >> I have been successful. what you did. >> Here's what you did. >> Yeah. >> And the Talmud is impressed kept my narrat that I wrote when I was 14 years old. >> That's called a >> That's called a unbelievable stuff. Now, you've seen parents who are saying they love their children and they do love their children, destroy their children. Why they love them? A mama bear hugs the child and you know >> where did you see that where give me an example where you saw that a child that a parent thinks that he's doing a toa for the child but he's not >> example I mean over the course of the years hundreds of examples >> yeah um one of the things I published many many years ago to miser published a a directory for new principles it's a 500page book which I wrote then and a collection of the things that I had done. So there's a particular letter I had a collection of letters that I sent to parents. So there's one particular letter that I got a lot of questions about. The letter was to a parent and it's a form letter which I sent many times. It says to the parent, we expect X, Y, and Z from you. Your child needs therapy. Your child needs whatever it might be. And uh we want to see the results of it because we love your child. We understand that it's difficult for you sometimes to accept that your child may need some help. But we are the ones who are dealing with the child on a daily basis. So he needs this kind of help, that kind of help, whatever it is. Even in the yeshiva, we can't give help. We can't have a psychologist come in and talk to a child without the consent of the parents. I would say to them, I need you to sign this form or to take your child to see to get tested, see a therapist, whatever the case might be. And if in the next uh month we don't see like three weeks, whatever it was, we don't see uh that you have done, you've taken the steps that you need to take, then we'll have to you'll have to keep your child home until you do. and parents came to me and and principles came you're going to send a child out because no I'm not sending a child out the parent has opted not to help in so if I can't deal with the child I can't help it any parent who got that letter over the course of many years with a wakeup call my kids need help >> right >> I may not recognize it my kid needs help I've got to give him the help Right. >> Unfortunately, there are some cases where the parents are the problem. >> It's because of the image or because they the you know like >> it's part of it is image and part of it because the child is growing up in a house where there's no Schlim bias and part of it the child has an issue and you're not dealing with the issue. All all variations of the but the theme is the same thing. Your job as a parent is to help the child be successful and you're limiting his success right now. >> Right? So the the the parents claim they love the child but they're actually destroyed. >> They love the child but they love themselves more. >> Correct. Correct. What about the issue of bullying in school and and um kids feeling they're left out. They're like these clicks, you know, they don't belong. How should a teacher because I I feel like I don't know that's what the the word is on the street that the the schools can't even handle it to to to you know to stop this this is a child who always happens to be he's in the corner and there and it was like make yourself make push yourself in. It's difficult. It's very difficult. There is no panacea because kids are kids. >> Yeah. >> Where do you start teaching me this typus to kids? at home and when they grow up and as a little child. >> Where would you start teaching ministers? When he's six and understands the value a little bit when he's four. >> Mhm. >> You start at the very f very beginning of the process. You're teaching. You have to teach to appreciate other children to give other children their due. It starts at the very earliest age. Which means that in kindergarten and we do it in kindergartens more than we do in first grade. By first grade, children are naturally going to protect themselves and try to exclude others. >> But if the Malamid makes the issue, if the teacher makes the issue that I appreciate people, I want you to include everybody else. Who can we include today? >> Right? >> Who can we do this for today? Everything changes. If you start with a child at a very earliest age to teach him to honor other children, we means for an adult, >> right? No. No. >> Each other each other >> learn to talk to each other. Like mention where do you learn in the fifth grade? At the very earliest stage. >> I used to have a program to catch children being good. Wow. >> So the Mhammed when the child is doing something did something extraordinary he'll write me a little note and we made a big deal out of it. But also kids kids were encouraged if somebody does something extraordinarily nice >> notice it >> notice it and write me a note >> and we would make a big deal out of it. >> This is a beautiful program >> and we would hang it up a little note. >> So and so did something nice. The atmosphere became let's do something for each other. Let's act nicely. A big theme. I would say to a kid was the Mhammed feels that he goes outside on the playground. I'm a Mhammed. I'm teaching to what do you send me out on the playground for? Requirement. Every Mhammed had to be on the playground. You need a rest. We'll find another time to give you a few moments. The playground is essential because you teach me to stay there. >> I try to be on the playground on a regular basis. I would talk to a kid. If I see kid is alone, call over Mhammed's alone. You need to make that a doggish to be able to see that the child grows up a mench. So you say we have bullying problems. Yeah. It's like, you know, you have um a rapids on on a river and kids are learning to swim. So, they can learn to swim and it's calm. Then they get to the rapids and they can't swim all of a sudden. So, try you have lifeguards there and you're saving the kids. He can't swim over here. Where is he swimming? He's swimming first in the waters when they're calm. When he gets to the rapids, he can't handle it. So, you throw in a lifeguard. How about not teaching this children to swim mlal in this kind of a river where there's going to be rapids. >> Teach them to swim where it's going to be calm. The atmosphere has to be calm. >> What I'm hearing from you is that if there is a child who comes to school and bullies children, there is a problem at home. There is a distance between the parents and the children. They did not teach and to these kids >> 100%. 100%. I've seen children who I know came from dysfunctional homes that when they walked into the moid, walked into yeshiva, they became different children as much as it could be. >> Yeah. >> This wasn't acceptable here. At home, I could do whatever it was. >> But here, it's not acceptable, >> right? >> I guess put your foot down. >> You create an atmosphere, >> right? >> So bullying is a very big issue in all our minds. girls and boys everywhere, >> of course, but we're trying to save them when they're drowning. Instead of doing that, let's teach meditation. >> Prevention, prevent it from >> it becomes naturally prevented, >> right? >> It's not that you're trying to prevent the bullying. The atmosphere is different. The atmosphere in the yes is yeshiva is different. The classroom is different. You know they used to say that uh someone went to some reb or some sadic and was asking him when when is the when do I have to start by the three years old by the put on say what when do I uh so he says uh when you're 17 years old don't wait for the kid to be three years old you have to teach yourself before so that it's tremendous what you're saying what you're saying is that the the the the core the source of everything that we are discussing thus far is what's going on in the home. The entire system is based on parents from home sending their kids from 8 to to 6:00. But the bel belongs to the parents. The root of the problem, the root of the issues is that the child lacks self-esteem. Bully somebody else, >> right? Because that child has no self-est. And if the parents deal with it and if the mas deal with it right at the beginning to build that, to develop that. >> Yeah. That is the way to go. So that is the solution is what you're saying. >> It's not a solution. That that's the that's to inoculate the children that should never get there, >> right? that bullying shouldn't exist to annihilate bullying at all. >> Annihilate, you know, annihilate but but but be able to to put it into context. >> Let me ask you about parents always uh when they're not m with the kids. You always hear this and you heard this from Rashivas and you heard bad friends. Bad friends. They they got involved with the bad people and they took him off the the the the path. Now the question is is there a way how to avoid it? Is is is um there are two good parents who are sending the kids to school and somehow the kids got involved with bad friends. But is that is that a a a blame? Is that you can blame bad friends? >> It's not a matter of blame. It's a fact. >> Okay. So, so, so you're saying that this is a pandemic. >> The hash of parents, >> yeah, >> recede slowly, by the time a child is 12 or 13 years old, the hash of the of the friends is much greater than the parents >> than the parents. >> And if you put the child in a place where the hashb is is negative, so you know, he's going to want to be with his friends who are and whatever else. The question is what can a parent do that his ashpa should be more than the bad friends? >> Unfortunately, uh there's not a great deal where if the child is in a place where there are bad friends and he's you got to take the child out of that environment that is not good for him. >> There's nothing you can do when your third the child's a 12 and 13 year old and he has bad friends. He's >> getting smart and starts to see things. >> So he'll he'll lie to you. It's what his friends think of him is more important already. So he'll lie. >> So bad friends is real. It's something that that could happen to any innocent child. >> Yes. And if you have a bad ashba, get the kid out of there. >> Now what you find kids who are um rebellious and there you go. Do you find that kids are just disgusted from Yiddish? They don't like Yiddish guide or it wasn't represented to them right or is it heartbreak or there's always an underlying to have a good time or is it hard? >> It's much much more complicated than that. It's true that there's rebelliousness and for some people the demands and restrictions that uh we place on them has a negative effect. And sometimes we see young people who grow up in an environment it seems that everything is wonderful and they get to be a teenager and then you know, okay, that it's real. That's very very real. And there's not a lot parents can do about that in in those particular cases. But in most cases, in the vast majority, it's the parents who can impact the child by making Yiddish beautiful. >> Ashabas tish is Ashab's tish. They can't be fighting at the tish. There has to be the environment has to be something that elevates the child. A vote. Every child gets a chance to say a vote. And the same thing is true on on Sunday and Monday and Tuesday, >> right? >> The child has to see the things that Yiddish demands are beautiful, >> right? Bring a positive vibe into the house. >> And all these things if the child experiences Yiddish as something which is beautiful. So many children who are who are disgusted of of their environment of yiddishkite would not be where they are. There are there are nam no question about that >> but the child has to experience yishkite as something beautiful. You know what they say that uh they said it in in in the last century. What destroyed American Yiddish? >> Many Eden came with good intentions, >> right? Because the children were listening. >> It's beautiful to be a Yid. Look how beautiful our Shabas is. Look how beautiful this is. Look how beautiful that is. And the child experiences as the Yiddishk as something beautiful. Sees the joy of the parents in performing a mitzvah. So the child experiences Yiddish as something I want to be a part of. >> And how if someone if a if a parent listens to this and they feel that um I don't feel it. I don't feel this mitzvah. The way you described it, I love Shabas and I don't feel is not by him. He doesn't feel it. He does it, but he doesn't feel it. What would you say? >> Has to go learn. >> Yeah. >> A parent has to go learn. One of the things said constantly is you never finish your own, >> right? your own you you see your own shortcomings and you can be yourself through learning through behaving through that I have whatever it is you have to be yourself as well >> while you're >> as you're being because you're helping yourself in the process >> an example I just had an uh one of the things I said is listen you're in you're going to go into k of course you're going to sit and learn the k I want you to learn at home too. Find the and learn at home learn. So number one because the home has to be a place where you're comfortable to learn. Your wife has to see you learning. Learn with your wife. Bring somebody to learn with. If you make the home a place where you're going to learn, the child's going to experience it eventually. You have children. >> The child will experience. He'll see learning as normal. Right. So, what you're saying is that this is a self-improvement project. >> Self-improvement doesn't stop until it's over. >> Yeah. So, so being Mahan the children means being Mhan yourself. This is a tremendous point. >> Exactly. >> You're not done and you have now a job to be Mak the children. >> You are a work in progress. >> Excellent. >> Um what if a child refuses? What if a child is like a rebellious child and you give them all the love in the world and they still don't want to? It's very painful for parents but the child still refuses. There comes a point where a parent has to know to back off. >> Okay, not today. It'll be tomorrow. Okay, I understand you don't feel like you feel bad today. Okay, we'll we'll we'll we'll talk again tomorrow. Parent has to learn way to back off. It's hard. >> Yeah. Nobody goes to school for this. You have to learn on the job, you know, >> and then you learn on who's at whose expense. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> That's the way it is. That's parenting. >> Now, as far as um you're dealing, you were a principal and you're dealing with kids in school and there are good kids with learning disabilities, dyslexia, call it, whatever. And sometimes there's a slow learner. What should a child do who has dyslexia and just sitting over there and just has a hard time reading the text? It's a good child, but the child is being the self-esteem is falling from the child because everybody's test the scores are great. In the meantime, this child is a good child. How do you deal with that? >> Yeah. Classrooms are not a monolithic place and every malaman and every teacher has to know my job is to deal you know they used to say it this way to change the approach a malamid in the classroom for the middle for the top 10 or 15% that's a pleasure. So that's your pleasure, >> right? >> The middle 50% that's your job, >> right? >> So your job, that's of course you got to do it. For the children who are struggling, the other 25% that's what you got out of Mahaba for. >> Yeah. >> That's what it's all about. The job of a malammed is to be able to understand the needs of every child to differentiate instruction and to teach children according to their needs. not alco >> not right >> but even within the itself the child doesn't know what his is that the the malam has to f it out and find out how will this child become successful what do I need to do to make this child successful so there are techniques dyslexia it's a it's a all all-encompassing word it means you can't read >> right >> so there are processes there are all kinds of things you can do to help a child focus. >> But on top of that, you have to build up that child what losing as far as comparing themselves to other children, always losing the score. >> So what do you do with a child who suffers from a low self-esteem? >> You throw him easy things to be successful at. You compliment him on a regular basis. You help the child feel that I can, not that I can't. >> Right? And when you give him back a paper after a test, you know, you can tell I used to it require of every Mhammed, as many questions that you put down on a test, you have to write down at the top of the page for students who are struggling in one way or another, how many of these questions they have to answer. >> Yeah. >> So, if there are 30 questions on the test, you write down on top of the paper for a child who's struggling 20. >> Yeah. And then you mark him on those 20. You're coming out with a 95. Okay. At the he didn't answer the other 10. That's okay. He doesn't have to answer what he has to answer. He has to answer what he has to answer. >> Right? >> So the child the self-esteem of the child is being saved in the process. >> Right? You have to be very much aware of these things. the teachers. I mean when a when a malamad or a teacher comes into a class and does not know this, you know, are they getting a certain education as far as how to deal with this in today's day? Look, today's world when a Mhammed becomes a Mhammedia, whatever it is, is much better than it was used to be >> 50 years ago, >> right? 50 years ago they threw us into a classroom with nothing. >> Right. >> So what did you do? What my malama did with me. >> Yeah. >> What his malama did with him before the m >> right >> which was a patch. >> Yeah. >> Today's world is completely different. Today they come better prepared and then there's inservice all the time. We have every summer we have a conference from alumni. They're actually doing now one in Connecticut, right? >> The couple hundred malam come together. >> It's a major thing >> for a couple of days and they learn every year. It's a new topics, new things, new themes. So the Malamid who started out struggling is not struggling anymore today. Today is the master. >> And every Mhammed needs to have a right to begin with. You need to be able to have somebody you can ask your silly questions. So just the look down at you. You're afraid to go to the man. Have a a fellow teacher or somebody else a coach that you can ask a question. It's a stupid question. What do you think? What would you do with this? >> So important. >> Yeah. >> Pick someone else's brain. >> Yeah. And so so you're comfortable. >> Yeah. >> I don't feel threatened by it. >> It's amazing. >> I required that. I've every I used to require it. of every new malignment. >> That is something. But let me ask you an interesting question. What's more important, academics or emotional well-being from the child? >> You're getting to the very core now. >> Lost you know. >> Yeah. >> Um I'm going to say something that a lot of people want to pick a bone with. >> Okay. I say that academically the child has to learn skills basic skills. So to be able to read basic skill but beyond that the emotional well-being of a child will propel him forward that he'll want to learn. If a you're teaching a child the content and the to and he learned 50 blot this year but he feels oppressed he feels depressed whatever else it is then it's a waste of time he'll rebel later on >> maybe not today in three years >> right >> so it's far more important at the end of eight grades I want the child to have basic skills and I want him to want to learn feel good about learning is >> um important stuff. Now let me ask you um was there an instant where you saw a teacher a malama rajashiva make such an impact on a child that it changed a child from 360° >> all the time. all the time. >> Yeah. >> I used to walk into every class every day. It took a couple of hours. You walk in, spend a few minutes. I remember once there was a child who lost a parent, lost his mother and after Shiva, he came back the first day. Of course, the class made a big deal that he's back and so forth and so on. And uh they also now he's coming back to class, >> right? And you imagine what the child is going through. And I walk into the class and the child is sitting next to the Rebi. I understood what he's doing >> and he says today is my helper because he saw so many things in the course of Shiva now that that other people of Hashem don't have to see. He can help me understand other people better. >> That he asked him easy questions. The kid felt like a million dollars. >> He didn't make him feel like >> a million dollars. >> Wow. >> And he did it over the course of the next couple of days and even the weeks. He just picked up the child. >> Wow. >> Picked picked him up and picked him up. Now this was a child who was very quiet and withdrawn all the time and he brought him out. He brought him out to the point where he was a different kind of kid and the class participated. Everybody included him in everything. They asked for his opinion. That's been a di I mean I saw this living in a living in living color in front of my eyes. >> Yeah. But what's interesting with this story is that >> this should have been done with children without uh you know crazy stories that this that this to happen that a rebi should do this. This is a lesson. This is a this is a good story because it's a lesson that sometimes you see this withdrawn child who still has the parents. You can still do the same thing. >> That's right. >> Unbelievable. But I mean if I ever experienced it >> Yeah. Yeah. It's a in living color. right now. How would you say a parent or a teacher can build trust? How can someone how do you build a relationship with a child? >> You're asking tough questions now that >> how do you build trust? >> How do spouses build trust? How does anybody build trust? Because sometimes there are children who are broken. They are um closed off. >> Yeah. >> And you can just knock on the door and but if a rebi or a child or a parent says, you know what, I want to rebuild. I want to open this thing up again. Where does someone start? >> I can't take out an answer out of my pocket. It's a it's a tough question. must be thought through carefully. It's a process. It's a slow process. One would say love is is that the is like it's something just love whatever that means. >> It's Yeah. When it's part of the equation, >> right? >> But if you're focusing on trust >> Yeah. >> has to be thought through in a particular case. What broke the trust? >> Right. Why is the child skeptical? You have to deal with a particular child. I don't I don't I can't think at the moment of a general >> catch. It's a custommade answer. >> Yeah. I I can't think of a catch, frankly. >> Right. Right. What are the effects that a child has when they have an adult figure that believes in them, maybe a parent or a teacher. How does that build a child? >> That changes everything. When the adult believes that you can, in other words, somebody feels I am a success. >> Yeah. >> So success breeds success, >> right? And the natural inclination of a person is I want to impress somebody who who trusts me who feels that I am I'm capable >> right >> and you rise to the occasion that's the job of every single malammed every teacher he or she they need to build that momentum for success you are capable you can do it let's sit down and do this together I bet you you can do it >> and then you throw him some easy uh hints here and there. You see, I told you you could do it. Let's do that again. >> And it's a process. If the child, if you have developed a relationship where the child feels successful with you, >> you got them. >> You got them. >> Yeah. You want them. Let's talk about technology today's day 2025. This is a crazy time that we live in with technology and there are different sides, different yeshivas, different misas and everybody has different opinions. One is out out. I don't want to see any phones, nothing, nothing. We're going to shelter. We're going to sit in a box. We're not going to look what's going on outside. Don't no see, no hear, nothing. That's one way. Then there's a way with filters. And then there's a way we'll show them but only uh certain times parents don't know how to deal with this. You see little kids in carriages today with iPads. It's where's this going and how should a prayer deal with this you know it's a kid comes into and he's bringing together with him. >> Yeah. It's a tremendous problem, but everybody has a different approach to it, >> right? >> You you can't negate somebody else's approach because that's his D, right? I'm not going to be there. >> Of course, >> my D might be different, but that there's some basic rules that have to be instituted, not just filters. None of our misdas none of our misus allow telephones in school. >> Smartphones or >> smartphones in school? >> Yeah. >> Or telephones even >> right. It's not for the children. >> We have processes in the high schools. For example, I go into a high school where you see there are 200 girls in the high school and they're from all over the country. It's a dormatory place, >> right? So interestingly in one particular mis every girl had to put she had a cubby in the office where she had to put her phone in >> deposit the beginning of the day and pick it up at >> this happens in schools. Yeah. Now, what if the child doesn't put it in? So, there was a monitor, an electric electronic monitor that if one phone was missing at a 10 after 9, an alarm goes off, a flash goes off, the secretary, this kid is absent. Kid is marked absent, >> right? >> Somebody will go look for the child. So, in in the mids, there's no such thing as a telephone, >> right? what the ch children do at home, what parents allow them to do at home. So, you know, there are parents who who are very comfortable with a kid locking themselves in their room and doing whatever they want, >> right? >> And what do you think the child is, >> right? >> What do you think the kids's going to be looking at? >> So, parents have to be very very vigilant. It's it's a struggle for everybody. And even those who say that you won't have anything to do >> in the house. >> In the house, what do you do? And the father's phone, what do you do? Because he needs it for his business. >> It's very very difficult. It's a huge problem. >> So the mamm are struggling with this. >> Everybody's struggling with it. It's a it's a very big struggle. You have to make a decision and then you have to stick with whatever you decided to do. Stick with it. Business off. >> But let me ask you something. This is a I think I heard this a little bit. This is a little bit close. the Reba style and I heard it from a few kabad guys also that this is this is something this is a challenge this is an technology that we're living in today but we can't be afraid we can't be afraid there has to be a way of fighting this just like it was fought 55 years ago on a different angle the idea is that and this is where we come back to what we started we started with with with parenting with we started If you build these children into a relationship with their to the point that they don't want to sever this relationship when they start um feeling this idea that if I put on and what what means to me and the gratefulness that gave you you build this relationship and you know I mean maybe it's next level but what I'm saying is that if there's a foundation of a [Music] and if you really have this relationship not just a superficial one the child or even an adult will not want to go there because they have too much to lose. Am I far off or is this something that uh it's a little bit excuse me for saying so but a little bit wishful thinking. Mhm. You have to put a need for because yes I have a relationship but I have also >> also >> we're seeing the is dealing with the here >> right >> village is a completely different animal >> and we have to make some sort of how do you help the child deal with the so yes we we're not going to my perspective personally is you're not going to be able to destroy destroy the world of technology. It's not happening. >> Forget it. >> So, channel it. Channel it. The child should be able to hear good things through his telephone at certain hours. You can't have it in your room privately. If you want to go on a computer, you can go on a computer, but it has to be in a public room. >> But the but if you feel I feel like if you take away from the child something, then the child becomes like it's like we're not learning that part. I don't think we should take it away. >> I think you should channel it. >> Taking it away, you've created a ty for the child. >> A monster. >> But if you channel it the right way >> and he can listen to these things at certain times, not all the time. And you can't you can't have it privately in your room because it's the wrong place. You can't have it late at night because etc., etc. But you channel it properly >> combined with the love and combined with with with everything we >> that's an approach that makes some sense to me >> right >> and ultimately you have to >> because there's what else are you going to do >> self what else are you going to do I have a final question for you who is your role model >> I don't have one role I have a number of people who I look to all through my life. >> I was uh as a man my role model was the best principles. First it was nullman from terra and uh some had a role model and people will be embarrassed if they ever get to this. Yuriel Kramer was an Rabbi Kramer was a role model. Shia fishman was a role model and Pasik was a was a role model. I had people to whom I look for certain things >> and then so I had a personal role model was a role model >> I don't think you have one role model exactly like that >> right >> depending upon what I'm doing I want to see who excels in this issue >> right you're learning from everybody >> that that was my personal approach >> very nice that is a good approach Rabbi Kaplan I want to thank you not just for your wisdom but for your heart >> your You're welcome. It's my pleasure. It's my pleasure. >> Because what you're doing is you're reminding us that education is not just buildings, not just test scores. It's dealing with you're dealing with with little kids that need to >> lives people's lives. >> The whole the whole life is in your hands. >> Whole life is in your hands. What a what a what a responsibility for a parent and a mechanic. It's unbelievable. Building a child's life, believing in a child, it's it's it's uh it's unbelievable. Building generations should help you. >> Thank you. >> You should have kyak and you should be able to do your till 120. >> Oh my. Thank you very much. Pleasure. Thank you for coming. It's >> a pleasure. You're a wonderful conversation. It's a pleasure to be here. >> Thank you. Thank you very much. Excellent.