I Couldn’t Say My Own Name — Now I Help Others Find Their Voice -Yanky Kauffman I S2 - Ep2

When I stuttered, I identified myself as somebody would say, "What's your name?" I'm the stuttering guy. >> I would like to put myself and you into the shoes of a person who stutters. >> Then it comes to do I really have to say it or it's better not to. Then the last step is to avoid the situation altogether. So I won't go away for shabas because there's just going to be a lot of people there and I just won't go. And and this really takes over a whole person's life. >> Teaching the children about bullying. >> Calling a middle of class. What's worse than not knowing the answer? Knowing the answer and you can't say it. >> Now, what does it do to the child's self-esteem? Like it's not a curse. You're embracing it. >> Embracing it. Right. So, that never spoke to me. I'll tell you why. This episode is sponsored by Candid Recruits. Candidate Recruits serves the tri-state area. Are you a business owner? Are you an employee? Are you looking to hire? Or are you looking to find a better job? Call Candidate Recruits. They are connecting the right people with the right jobs. They have over 300 successful hires already. They are vetting every employee to the highest level from white collar to blue collar to everything in between. And the best part of candidate recruits is they charge a flat fee versus the other agencies who charge 25% of the salary. So do yourself a favor and reach out to candidate recruits at 8458289210. Call now. Okay. We are welcoming today an inspiring guest on the podcast. His name is Rabbi Yankee Calfman. Rabbi Yankee Kaufman had his own journey, had his own personal journey with stuttering. Um, he transformed it into a solution, believe it or not. Took his own journey and changed it, not just for himself, but for hundreds people around the world. He's the founder of uh an organization called Smooth Speech Solutions. You got it right. >> Okay. Um, Rabbi Yankee, welcome to the struggle podcast. >> Oh, thank you very much. >> Thank you. Thank you for coming. Um, this is where I want to start. What was the aha moment? Do you remember the aha moment that said >> today was the day that is done >> by me? It was very obvious cuz the contrast was so clear so fast. And basically the story goes right going back u I hope people are going to understand that I used to I used to stutter yeah that heavy even though the way I'm speaking now about not really part of my life >> but it was a very very big struggle right >> I'm not just saying it because that's what the podcast is called but I would I just seen the struggle live and learn >> it was living the struggle that's what it was right >> um so one day I got a phone call from someone And they said, you know, can you help this person? He's really in a very difficult situation. >> He's stuttering. I said, oh, I understand. >> You were already a specialist then. >> No, I was stuttering. I was married. Happily married, living the co life in >> Wow. >> So he said to Yagi, you know, maybe you can help them. >> I said, help with stuttering. >> I could teach him how to stutter. I can't teach him how to not stutter. >> Right. She said, "No, you know, he's like he's on yeshiva. You can't get kuses. He already went for a lot of therapy. He's burnt out. His prince have money. They spent anywhere whatever they heard of." I like that sounds familiar. I also went all over the place. I mean, so yeah. So, we're in the same boat. Okay. Yeah. But, you know, he's not married. He's he's not maybe you couldn't help it. I said he he said he needs >> said oh I'm very good at khak I'm very good at getting not giving giving with a stutter >> I'm still struggling myself then he told me one last thing gave it one last try and that changed everything he said I can maybe just be his friend okay can't turn that down could be any's friend said okay let's meet I didn't know I was going to be telling him you know but I can't send that that offer So I dash Hashem the night before like Hashem, please. This guy's in a very desperate situation, keeping it light. Very desperate situation and uh he's he's relying on me that I'm going to be able to help him with something and I don't know what to tell him. So I'm not turning it down, but you know, Pasha does not make this awkward. I started to take a piece of paper and just started writing. Put something in my mind. >> Yeah. started writing and I said okay let's experiment something for the next day we metic whatever whatever things that the little things that >> were helpful and then we start to experiment I say hey wow this is this is working but didn't got too excited listen I've been for I've been in therapy for 15 years >> and then he wanted to meet again I guess that was my first successful session >> wow >> and I said really like you know what what does he want to meet I what I do now maybe he wants to meet again because you know he finally met somebody who really understands him >> right >> which was true we met again and we we practiced like why it was just like for fun and then he wanted me the third day I was like okay that's I guess whatever I did the first two days we're just going to keep doing it for the third day >> and then after the third day I came home I realized like hey well my speech is different again I didn't identify too much with what I was experimenting and what's happening. It was just like happening slowly but fast. Like I just did the therapy and things are changing. But again, I didn't stutter every word. So it's not like it was like right, >> you know, black and white like that. I was like, "Hey, I'm stuttering much less." Like what's going on? And then I started doing things over the next couple of days like where I would have definitely would have stuttered. I like I'm not stuttering now. I used to practice with Rabbi Wakshell from the Mir and uh he knew that studying was very hard for me and he told me okay I know you always you're creative you're always trying different things for your studying if I was almost um you know so he offered to to to help me even when I got married he's like if you if you need someone to practice with you can uh >> so this was an exercise that you did an exercise writing stuff down saying certain things >> experiments you know really take it >> your own little >> yeah it wouldn't hurt for two people who Is that to experiment something? Why not? >> Nothing else to do with the guy. >> Yeah. >> So I went over to Rebi Waka when I realized like I'm not really studying anymore. I want to tell him the good news like Rebby you know we're not enough to practice anymore the therapy that we used to you know try whatever wasn't really getting anywhere anywhere. >> So I went to then you know what just happened? I tried to help someone else. So I went over to him and with him I was more because and I was more I had that respect and after nine sec nine seconds of talking rebi I want to tell reb what happened last night I met someone and he's like before you tell what happened with the what happened with his speech you're not stuttering now I said no that's what I'm saying no he before he's saying what you're saying tell me what happened with his speech I want to know you sound amazing and then anyway he was he was jumping for joy >> you know he's one of those that really you're say he was like wow blown away >> you remember that Hey, and I remember I remember that day. Uh him leing over like okay what a second shock >> and that but the the real aha moment was when I was put under the most pressure it what could have been the worst situation ended up being the best and make a long story short I was in a shul and the re was very friendly >> and I was totally unexpected and in the middle of his drawing he turns to me and says hey what's your name? He was just trying to be friendly, you know. >> And I'm like, wait, for real? Like, and my name out of everything I told you the mu is like my name like now I'm Joshua. I like what am I going to do now? Wait, let me try this. I was just doing something just a day or two ago, right? >> Pulled it out and it worked. >> He says, "Oh, very nice." I said, "Yankei Calfman." He said, "Oh, very nice. Where you from?" What a second. I don't know if it's going to work every time you know. >> I said, "Uh, Sanhedrin." He said, "No, where are you originally from?" I say, "My three for three." Three of the what could have been the worst. >> Yeah. >> Smooth. I walked out of there feeling I'm on to something. When I came home and I told my wife what happened. I was like, you realize this is we we got this. It's over. It's almost like waking up one day and feeling like you have wings. You feel like, okay, nice. You understand? You don't have to go to the car anymore. You could just fly. You could just You have wings. That's like I I could talk. I could just say the whole game is over switching and avoiding just say what I want to say and it's and it's easy and uh so the whole shabas me were like trying to dissect like what what is what am I doing? Can I make it even better? I I don't stop just because I have something good. Let's make it even better. Of course, >> but can we make it longer and better? Can we make it shorter and better? >> That must shab took a phone book and I said maybe this is going to help other people. worth a try. I'll do it for free." So, I took it to a phone book and called up all the famous people, you know, that of the Americans that I that I knew of and I said, you know, told them my 30 secondond elevator pitch. If you know anyone who stutters, I used to stutter and it's for free. And that's when it started. I started to sing people one after the next. People started coming and uh I realized like a lot of these people had the same journey as me. Yeah. They went to this one and to that one and to that one like really? I thought I was the, you know, the only one. No. Oh, and the stuttering and for a long time and and it's working and then you know organically the success just started coming and that's really how it started just people hearing people knowing me saying it's worth a shot and then the success of the first few people that I've seen every single one of them they started the word got out there very very quickly pun intended the word got out there >> very quickly that's an amazing amazing story I would like to put myself and you into the shoes of a person who starts maybe a young person maybe a young adult and even a middle-aged person I want to understand how a life walk me through a day of a life a person who who has a stutter so it could happen at different stages in a person's life we'll start with the typical at a younger age they don't necessarily that they stutter after they're already stuttering It's a process for them to see, hey, I talk differently. I can't just say what I want to say. There's something different about my speech. It's not working so well. And if it's a heavier stutter, then you get to you get that message from the looks of other people like, wait, what's going on? And then you get the strong impression, wait, there's something different over here also. But you don't really know what's going on. like I am talking and slowly but surely things start to snowball that you realize there's a struggle over here I can't talk and there's something very basic because speech is something so pervasive >> sure >> and it's especially in's life we're very social >> and you want to see important things and that's our kayak our kayak is with our speech >> and when someone's lacking that then it gets very complicated it's a very big struggle Now what you're saying is that they're comparing themselves to others. Little kids will see in class that other people other kids are like jumping up and saying they're answering what the Reb is asking or whatever the case is in school and they're like I have a hard time getting this out. >> Yeah. Speech is a very basic quality for human being. >> You know, if everybody would stutter, I don't know. I mean, it was it would still be a struggle, right? >> But most people don't stutter. >> What kind of impact does that have on a little child? So it evolves slowly. I would say starts with when they start to realize that hey it's hard for me to talk. So then the knee-jerk reaction is to just avoid the hard words. So we switch. Then it becomes a constant game. Wait, what's the easier way to say this? Sometimes it could be very smooth to transition to a different word to switch. Sometimes it could be a little bit awkward like you know um we may try to beat around the bush. Wait a second. Is that how the expression goes? Beat around the tree. Right. >> Right. >> No, but tree was hard for me to say. So I said beat around the bush. >> Mhm. >> Especially sometimes you want to get to the This is for illustrated purposes. You want to get to the, you know, to the Everyone's watching. What do you want to say? You want to get to the punch line and you got like switch to you want to get to the and and what's the different word for the punch line and you sometimes you just stop and it just gets it just gets awkward. >> And then when you realize that could happen also. So then you wait a second it's it's a big struggle. I may stutter. I may switch. And it's it's like a it's like a juggling act. So maybe I should just avoid it. So just won't talk. Now of course uh but I'm a normal guy. I want to have friends. >> Okay. But then it comes to do I really have to say it or is it better not to? Then the last step is to avoid the situation altogether. So I won't go away for shabas because there's just going to be a lot of people around. I just won't go. And and this really takes over a whole person's life. It's what they say. So to summarize, there's four challenges with the actual stutter, what they switch, >> yeah, >> what they hold back from, and what they avoid. And this happens even with a moderate, even with a slight stutter. Obviously, there's different levels of a slight, but even with a slight stutter, this could happen day in day out. And it gets even more complex because you don't know exactly when it's coming. So if you know, okay, from you know, it only happens in the morning. Okay. So then you may just not talk in the morning, right? >> You know, you're not you're not available. >> Um and then the rest of the day is fine. >> But it could happen could happen in the morning, could happen afternoon, could happen at evening. Could be having a great day. Today's great speech day. Kaba smooth on the phone is smooth and then all of a sudden you walk in the street and someone asks you for directions and for whatever reason you know this is different situation and you just start stuttering and you were having a great day what did you do wrong you're just walking down the street and all of a sudden you start stuttering and you don't know to what extent you're going to stutter is it going to be a slight stutter well if there's potential person who has a moderate or heavy stutter it could be much worse be much more intense so you don't know it it's unpredictable so you bically constantly on eggshells and this happens not just once a week. This happens day in day out and could be for years. >> Unbelievable. >> So, we're talking about a very very serious issue and obviously it could affect the person in a major way. And what's tricky about it like I'm putting everything on the table over here. >> Yeah. >> But unless you heard this, people who don't stutter look at it like I never thought about this. It's just I thought it was just speech like a little >> This is very different than other speech issues. This is much more complex and it affects the person much more >> right now. What does it do to the child's self-esteem? >> So there's all different types of people obviously but I would say for most people it's confusing. Before self-esteem it's confusing and because they feel not as capable obviously this can affect the person's self-esteem. Not only that, but the things that can build a person's self-esteem, they don't have access to that. >> Correct. >> So that's you said before calling a middle of class. So I'll tell you like what's worse than not knowing the answer, knowing the answer and you can't say it. >> I'm not saying I was always that guy who knew all the answers, but right >> sometimes I did, >> right? >> But I couldn't say it. >> So I just pretended I was like most other people that didn't know the answer. That is pain. you're describing pain and um from talking about kids and becoming bar mitzvah being called up to the toy >> and all these like we don't how many times you just you know we insult people very easily you know with the mouths we use our mouths like it's it's a big joke all of a sudden it's like whoa I mean this person has the the difficulties uh a all these places of kids want to sing. I it's like you think about it is just >> speaking about thinking about it. It's it's not just that we think about it about the person who stutters when they're getting aliyah. No, no, no. This is been going on in their mind weeks or months before. >> Oh, my is coming up. Wait a second. You know what that means? >> Wait, that means a week before I'm getting get an aliyah. Wait a second. And so, normally I try to figure out a way how not to get an aliyah. If I have an inkling, then I might get an aliyah. But here, like what am I going to do? I mean, it's what what are my options? I mean it is my offer. >> I am getting an aliyah. It's not like my minig is uh not to get an aliyah. >> I'll tell you one funny story just how people try to avoid these types of things. So I'm sure people can imagine all different simple ways of avoiding alias. You know going to the back, going to the bathroom. Okay, these are the simple ones. There's something a little more creative because that's also the mindset of people in the life of people who stutter. We can become very creative in general. I would say people who are become very desperate. I think I heard the it's a famous maybe you know being desperate is the mother of creativity. And so one guy thought of an idea. He said he had an inkling that this Yamiff this is his Yamiff meaning he's going to get this Elliot. >> Correct. >> And so what's his way out? And he was tired. I'm not going to the back. Maybe he he who wants to sleep late the night before. He's not interested in getting up and walking to the back and playing the whole game. So they sold alias. So he bought out all the alias and he was sure this Yand not getting an aliyah. >> Wow. That is that is next level. That is next level. It was creative. And you can hear you can feel a fear that that person has. They will pay money. >> Yeah. >> Not to get there. Not the shame is so bad that he will do anything in the world not to get to that place. >> Yeah. And it's not really understood by most people. So, and nobody even knew that he was doing this, >> right? >> I He probably didn't even tell his wife. >> He told it to me. >> Yeah. >> But most people don't really get it what's going on in the life. It's because this is it gets compounded. >> And for people who don't stutter, it's like >> all these things we take for granted, >> right? I'll give you another example like you want to talk to someone on the phone. people who start it's like a whole like wait a second I usually get stuck on my name a lot of times the simple things are hardest and so how do I how do I deal with this like for some reason it's always the same thing you always have to say your name like you know wouldn't it be better if it was like a different way of introducing yourself like people ask me hey like you know I wish people would have asked me like hey Yankee what's your favorite color I usually don't get stuck on that one you know blue that's easy one for me to say instead they always ask me the hard things like what's your name which mak are you learning which are you in, which camp are you in? All the hardest things. >> Um, but when it comes to, let's say, making phone calls, so you could, you know, you're waiting to get on the line with us, you're busy company, and you're waiting and waiting, waiting, you can wait five, 10 minutes. Now, this is annoying for a lot of people. People can relate to that. But what happens when they finally pick up and they say, "Yes, hello. Who's this?" And wait a second. No, no, no. That's the not the time to stutter, right? But >> but that sometimes is when a person will stutter cuz it's under pressure. I have say now wait I don't want the person to hang up >> and then you know what happens the second and a half rule if you don't say anything they starts yelling at you hello hello. >> Mhm. >> As if they were waiting 10 minutes to you know >> and then you have another half a second and if it doesn't go they just hang up. Does anybody know about this challenge? >> Wow. >> Nobody knows. Only people who sit know this. >> Wow. But let me ask you a funny question. Why is the name that is like the supposed to be the easiest is that's where you stutter and then in coming outside the box another one would be easier to say. Why is that? >> So I don't think it's anything specific about a person's name that is hardest. I think the fact that everyone stutters that most people stutter on their name obviously has to do with the fact that it's their name not the sounds per se. Right? So why is the name harder? Because if I know that I could stutter. So now there's more pressure over here because I know that you know that I know my name. >> Mhm. >> So it's time to say it. So let's go. What's your name? Now I have that pressure >> kicks in. >> Now once it happens a few times that wait a second. I know I may stutter on this, right? Cuz I cuz I did stutter in the past, >> right? >> So now it becomes complicated. Wait, I hope they're not going to ask me my name. And guess what happens? The first thing out of their mouth is it's like almost like we wish they could we read our mind, you know, like don't ask me my name, you know. >> Wow. Now, let me ask you about social anxiety because you were saying before there are regular people who don't stutter and they have social anxiety and they would run out before an aliyah also. So, is is it related? Is it a social anxiety? You think that this the the the stuttering or the two different things, right? definitely looks like there's a lot of correlation. >> Um I'm not a social anxiety expert but it definitely if there's one other aspect in you know in the DSM that's probably related >> I would say it's at least a major part this has to do now it's hard to know which one came first. >> Mhm. Because could be not all stuttering is based on social anxiety, right? But because we stutter and it could get difficult. So then yeah, we could have anxiety or a level of it socializing with other people. So then we can also avoid but social anxiety could be it's not necessarily as a physical thing happening, right? It's just it's more in their mind. Stuttering, right? >> It's not just in their mind. We could actually stutter. >> Can't say the word out from your mouth. Now, stuttering is in the DSM. Is it an official? Uh, >> stuttering is in the DSM. >> Wow. >> So, what is it characterized >> mental? Well, it used to be called stuttering, but you know, somebody explained to me how the DSM works that they always have to change things because that's how they make the big bucks. >> So, at least in stuttering, we see how that played a role. >> Um, now it's called two. There's no You thought there was such a thing as stuttering? No. All the organizations for stuttering pretty much are called stuttering. In the DSM, >> they have a new, now I don't think this >> indicates a breakthrough in understanding stuttering, but here's what they call it. Now, there's two different types of diagnosis. Childhood onset fluency disorder. >> Mhm. >> Studying was too simple, right? H or adult onset fluency disorder. >> That's what they came up with. >> Okay, >> I got you. So my question is um as a as you remember starting from when you were young >> as far back as I can remember >> remember till you were like 26 years old right >> I was 26 >> but how did that um what identity did that give you as a child? Were you the stutterer kid? I mean >> how I identified myself? >> Yeah I mean or other people identified you. So other people I tried to I was a regular boy >> so I had friends I excelled in certain areas but I was like a regular guy so I wasn't like this oh I know what Kevin stutters because of x y and z no it was just I was like everyone else pretty much right and I stuttered >> right >> so that's how they looked at me now obviously in general the more comfortable you are with a person it's not always like this then the less you stutter. So my friends probably remembered me when they first met me as, "Oh yeah, Calvin stutters, but after a while, you know, if I was good at basketball, then who cares if he stutters, you know, we're going to play basketball with Calvin, >> right?" >> Um, so that's basically, you know, I mean, I don't know how other people looked at me, but I would imagine that's how people looked to me, >> right? Right. I >> I glad I did ask friends, you know, after I stopped stuttering, you know, what did you >> tell me the truth now? I'm past it. What do you >> Right. But how I identified myself. >> Mhm. >> I'm going to I'm going to fast forward. >> Yeah. >> Uh the I'll answer this with a conversation I had with what's the famous psychologist from YU professor um Dr. >> Mhm. >> Pelitz. >> Pelitz. Dr. >> Pitzel. Yeah. >> From Okay. So I asked him how to do you know he's a professor he also does research I asked him how to do research for my studying program there's not any research out there we could speak about it later about significant success for stuttering how to if I have that how do I prove that so >> it's not really his field but I discussed it with him >> so I was sitting down with him I and he saw like I was very passionate about this he said yank at the end of the conversation like yanke you're going to be very successful in this I said what is it like buck what's how do you No, I didn't tell you what I do. How do you know that? He says, "Listen, I have a lot of experience." And I see you're you're just crazy about this. >> I said, "Dr. Buckwoods, we just met for 20 minutes. You're you diagnosed me. You're a little bit off. I'm not crazy about this. I'm craziest about this." I want to tell you how crazy I am. So, now go going back to your question. How did I identify myself? >> When I started, I identified myself as somebody would say, "What's your name? I'm the stuttering guy and my name is Anki Calfman. Because why? Because that's what always was in my mind when they asked me, "Oh, wait. I'm going to stutter now." Or I'm probably going to stutter now. When I stop stuttering, I still have the same identity. >> Wow. >> I'm the stuttering guy. Or maybe I'm the fluency guy and my name is Anki Calfman. >> Wow. Wow. That's passion. You know, it's uh you did something. You took something that was a obstacle in your life and um you made it a stepping stone and that is something to uh that is some that is something to look up to. So what was the mind shift in your head in your mind that uh changed everything? When did you decide enough is enough? >> So when did I decide enough is enough? From the day I realized I was stuttering, this is this is enough is enough. >> And that led me to a lot of speech therapy. I gota I got to figure this out. Can somebody help me? So like anyone else would, you go to a speech therapist. First you try local, right? >> Someone who takes your insurance for states >> and then you realize like these are just regular speech therapists. They don't really know too much about stuttering, but they could try. Anybody could try, right? Especially licensed people can try. You know, they they know something about it. So it was an experiment you know try this do that and you know after a few years of going to therapist my parents I mean this is what my parents tell me what sent me to therapy then we had home therapy for a couple years and we weren't getting anywhere um so they said okay let's take a little break my mitzvah was coming up and it was going to be a desperate situation I mean I the only thing I remember by my bar mitzvah was speaking there or or lack of speaking over there and um I went for I went to big specialist after that you know not just speech therapist stuttering specialist but make a long story I'm not going to go I went to therapy around 15 years for my stuttering because >> like I said enough was enough from day one >> and but there was that was part of the challenge like there's the truth is fast forward this field is very stale there's nothing new out there >> I haven't I spoke to the biggest researchers yet you have anything new the last 15 20 years >> anything >> there's nothing new in this field >> what you're saying is you just have to find the right mechanism but uh >> so yeah I'm saying you know you could get well basically you could get lucky >> if they had a real way then say it >> right >> they don't have a real way >> so yeah you could get lucky obviously people have gotten help I personally when I was stuttering I never met anybody who used to stutter and stop stuttering I haven't met anyone >> and you know people tell you well try this do that and everyone has their little way of explaining it stuttering is because I'm not going to go into details I'm not to >> you know but everyone has their way of expl stuttering is because of this and because of that it's the throat that's in the something I'm not going to go psychological maybe there was some type of trauma I'm not going to go through all the different things >> but at the bottom line is that I don't see it working I don't see it working and I'm basically convinced by them that something's supposed to be happening but I remember one therapist told me like it's supposed to take you know a while and I'm not keep it vague supposed to take a long time till the therapy kicks in but in mamish works okay so you know I I keep on going on I felt I was going on for like I'm not getting anywhere nothing if I would see 20% better I say hey there's something to this right >> but all the therapy that I've went to >> I never got anywhere I would say it didn't help me for one word in real life and I was very motivated >> right And you know there's really there's unfortunately the field is very stale. You know people can spin things that oh we have something new and or have a special way but what they're doing I verified this after speaking to not just one or two people from dozens of different types of people like this what they're actually doing is the same. So in fact it's very interesting the field right now in general in the field of stuttering the culture out there is not about techniques for fluency. It started with that and then they saw over time you know people have a hard time admitting it but over time they were like forced to admit from people saying like we're not going to help that wait it's not really working. So what did they say? Wait let's be more comfortable be happier be not be happy. Don't make such a big don't make such a big deal of stuttering and hopefully because of that you'll stutter less. >> So they were hoping yeah you'll stutter less and like maybe you even won't stutter at all. But then they saw that's not either working. They're not making that breakthrough to make people so happy who stutter. And it's like a catch 22. Yeah, I should be more relaxed, but I stutter. So, you don't have a special way of making them more relaxed. So, >> you know, some people give up fast, so it's easier to talk to that. I was never like that. I was not going to be convinced that, you know, it's okay to stutter. And I mean, just to say one more step, it was also like it's okay to stutter. Then they realize that bottom line is that's not either working. People are still frustrated because they're hoping so I'll do this and then I'll get fluent. But that's not really happening. >> Mhm. >> So then they came up now what's going on now is um it's okay to stutter. No, that it's okay so that you won't stutter. It's okay to stutter period. That's why you have you know different people promoting you have phrases like happy. I'm not going to go through anything specific but like being proud of stuttering, >> right? >> Like you're more authentic if you stutter. >> You're looking at it like it's not a curse. You're embracing it. >> Embracing it. Right. So that never spoke to me. I'll tell you why. I not just me, but nobody stutters every word. Every single word. No. >> In fact, when people speak by themselves, they don't stutter. There might be exceptions, but basically we don't stutter when we speak by ourselves. >> So what's going on? I'm talking right now. I'm talking with you. Imagine if you weren't in this uh if I can say beautiful really beautiful one of the nicest probably the nicest podcast room I was ever in. But if you're not in the room talking to myself, what am I doing? I'm doing the same thing. >> Right. >> Right. I could tell myself express yourself how you feel about whatever the question is. >> So what happens when you come in the room? I'm doing the same thing as far as my speech is concerned. >> Right? >> So that means there's got to be a way for me to not stutter. Not only that, but even with other people, I don't every word. So that means there's got to be a way that I don't have service. That's what I always believe them. >> Wow. >> So just the therapists haven't figured it out. So you can't say there is no way. In fact, that's something that the therapists are hiding behind. They defend themselves by saying, "Well, there is no cure." But there's that's not science. That's just a belief system. What I'm saying is that people who studed themselves know there's got to be a way. You just haven't figured it out. >> Does that fall into the category? You got to want it. >> No, I don't think so. I don't think they just No, you need a skill. >> You need a skill. If you teach them a skill, then you will do it. You had the roots. You had the roots and because you started teaching about it. >> I had the roots and that I didn't want to stutter. >> Yeah. >> But that didn't make me not stutter. >> Okay. >> Because think about it, you know what happened? But it wasn't just for my saying I really don't want to stutter. >> Right. But would you say that the force behind this what you're displaying here this this this bulldozer type of I'm not giving up this the parents your parents were behind because this this started out when you were a child you're saying you spent 15 years in therapy >> hard to know you know I don't know if it's nature nurture >> or it's your grandparents were in the Holocaust you know >> I don't know I don't know could be it's in the blood but definitely I would say I have this not just in stuttering you know a lot of things I'm you know I I am very >> I'm a I'm strong willed person actually >> this is a good trait to have um do you remember a time that you actually held back to say something that you wanted to >> because of shame and fear >> all the time I'm not going to get >> in all these years that that that you remember yourself you remember 100% that you you you made a left instead of a right just just because on a daily basis Wow. >> That's why when I used to dav wouldn't just three times a day and Hashem, please help me. What's like in No, this could happen 10 times a day. >> For example, oh, I'm going to so of course I want to wish to right just like everyone else, right? That's a nice thing. He's a friend of mine. >> You know what happened last time? I went to wish m and it was like very awkward like you know people are trying to squeeze their hands in and like >> sometimes people we can speak about it like different uh habits that come along with stuttering. So one of these secondary behaviors like people can close their eyes you know a little twitch a little jerking with the head. So like that could happen obviously you know to wish maltto and you got to get it in you know and other people has got to be like with a with you know oh >> mv >> and then like it doesn't really coincide with like my like very possible stuttering moment with that whole oh warm mv >> and like especially when your hand is supposed to come out at the right time right everyone understands that right but when you're stuttering it's like something be a little bit off so it's like wait I don't know exactly you got to stick your hand in basically when the mazto is about to come out But if you don't know when the M is going to be you I think you get the vibe like it's a little bit a little bit uncomfortable and then what happens if that actually happens. So then the next time you go to >> I would that Hashm please help me that it should just you know everything should just work. Okay. >> Yeah. >> And this would happen not just at this could happen on daily basis. >> You know the news a news man starts uhoh I want to get a good kabusa. >> Right. >> So yeah so after a few days you know it'll probably be better. That's basically how it always goes. But is he going to drop me after the first couple days? Is he going to give me a chance or not? >> Wow. The real struggle you're talking about. The struggle is real. >> I want to speak about this one. I want to bring out one more point over here about the struggle. What's real and what's unique about stuttering? >> So there's a famous from uh Michael Jordan, you know, the best knows. >> Yeah. So there's a famous he said I don't follow him but this is what I when I did my research on bringing out the challenge of stuttering this came up. So he says you know famous line I don't know exactly the I can't say verbatim but basically I lost I missed 9,62 shots in my career. I was entrusted with the, you know, the last shot in the game and I missed 56 times and this type of thing and uh I failed and I failed again and the ends with the punchline and that's why I succeed. >> So in a paradigm that's this means like wow you really struggle and because of the struggle >> that's how you get to the top. >> That's how you get to the top. That sounds very nice. But not when it comes to stuttering. >> Because you fail and you can fail. Not just what I say 960 9,000 63 times. No >> 100,000 500,000 times and end up in the same place with your nice big heavy stutter. >> That's what's unique about stuttering. It's so common. This is not a struggle. Oh, I have a hard time falling asleep. How often does it happen? If it le just to bring it out that could that happens once a day it's I have very easy time falling asleep >> but you know because then that could be a challenge but it's once a day what about speech it could happen a thousand times plus in one day. >> Yeah. Unbelievable. >> And there's no breaks. >> What I'm hearing you saying is that um you're not focusing that much if you're born with it. What the what the reason for it is, you're focusing on the fact we have it and we need a solution and we need to fix it. Really doesn't matter where it comes from. If it's the genes or if it's not the genes, that's not your, you know, you're saying what's next is what you're asking. We have it. We need to fix it and we're trying to come up with some solution to make this thing work to save your life practically. >> So, I'll tell you why that's my approach. Um because once a person is stuttering for a while, stuttering takes over the show. So let's say it could be that a person let's say from a it's called um there's there's three diagnostics for stuttering. There's um developmental, psychoggenic, and neurogenic. So developmental they're learning their speech basically at a younger age. Psychoggenic could be from let's say an emotional trauma. Okay. By the way, I think they took this out of the DSM because they don't like I'll go on a tangent for a second. It's part of the whole mindset, you know, the I call it the psychology of the field of wait a second, we don't really have a solution for this. So, if we say it's psychological, then we're getting ourselves in trouble because >> I mean that's a very developed field and we have solutions for people's psychological issues and we can expect results. >> Wow. So we don't want to say that because we can't explain it and if we give the impression that it's connected to psychology then there should be a real solution. So that's why one of the reason but there's no denying that people started stuttering after trauma or developmental trauma which is means after stages not to say one >> uh incident. So anyways getting back you know but this was in there for a long time. I don't think they got any smarter in the field. So I'm I'm going to say it right >> like what it used to be and then the nuring. So you could have come out from a trauma and if you can nip it in the bud and say okay there was a trauma here some type of insecurity happened and it's affecting the speech if you could quickly you know again this is also itself to we'll call it what I don't know exactly what the expression is to to fix to heal the trauma then there's a good chance that the stuttering will go away but once it's going on like this for a few months for Sure. For a few years, then it stuttering has a mind of its own. It's like a fire. You know, people like to say my mahalak is I like to get to the source. >> Right. >> Okay. That's that sounds very nice. >> Um when it comes to fire, if you take out the source, the original match after it was lit to the the woods for a few >> a few days, it's gone. You pick up I found it. It's you're not going to get anywhere. >> So if you extinguish it right away, then you saved it. So with stuttering you take care of it right away fine you could save it >> but once going on for a while even you know I've been sent from psychologist many of their clients and they felt that they diagnosed their clients that they are past their trauma or whatever it was >> right >> but they're still stuttering now think now it's so now you know it could be that they are past that and usually if you ask people who stutter how did it come okay if they know let's see if this one of the type of situations >> they could tell you that the challenge what they want help for now is not why it originally came they got bullied in camp they're past it is the stuttering now it's the stuttering that's the story so the bottom line is when you're dealing with someone stuttering for a while the issue now is stuttering >> right it's I understand I understand what you're saying does it have any to do with mind racing which means your mind races faster than the words that has to come out >> I think it does >> everything helps a little bit >> well in a nutshell basically Anything that has to do with speech can bring us stuttering. So what has to do with speech? >> So to simplify things, you have your mind that has to do with speech, >> right? >> We'll call it the cognition, the emotions and the speech mechanism, >> right? >> So really anything that could get the system off track can bring out a stutter. >> I got you. Before you mentioned um slight stutter and severe stutter. Is your recommendation that if a person who has a slight stutter should come in and fix this ASAP because it's going to get worse or is it uh get away with it? So it's interesting when I just started I most people who came to me I would say was moderate or heavy stuttering. Um, after a few years, I guess people started to catch up like, "Hey, this looks like there's a real solution." >> Maybe people saw my ads like there's always new things I'm flying out. I'm trained in more therapists and more endorsements like, "Hey, there's a way to fix it." Even a sidest like I described >> could be a very big struggle. >> So, they start to wake up like, "Wait, I should get on board with this all and see if there's a way to fix myself." So, I would say at least half the people come now are people with a slight stutter. But now the question is who should come? So, it doesn't go by slight or heavy. It should go by the way I see it is if it's important to you. So could it be that someone with a very slight stutter? This is very important to them. Absolutely. >> Right. >> Could it be that as someone who has a heavy stutter but uh you know a little bit you know has other things going on in his life >> he's not the salesman type >> sales >> he doesn't whatever I'm not I'm not going to describe different reasons. There's obviously you could figure out a lot of different reasons why people you could ask this in any field why someone who has a serious issue doesn't take care of it. a lot of different reasons. >> Again, it could be a positive reason like um again like he has a lot of other positive things in his life so he's focusing on that >> you know which I think is a very good idea you know for someone who stutters um I'm not saying it's going to take care of the stuttering but stuttering can play front and center of a person's life if a person can make a list >> right write down himself >> of the other qualities or the good things in his life and that will shift a little bit off of hey but I'm stuttering to I have a lot of other great things going on in my life. So you know a person may have them but unless it's highlighted then a person may shift into stuttering and make that highlight because it it's such a common struggle. >> Yeah. Now as far as um men versus women, boys versus girls, >> is it 50/50 or is you see a difference? >> All right. We're going to pick on the men over here. How about that? >> You think that you think it's >> So the belt says that it's 4 to1 ratio >> for men. >> Wow. >> Uh from my experience and that's very old research. Um you know I read the latest I'm always looking to the latest on stuttering. >> Um and so in the latest book they have the research like the truth is that it's it's a lot has to do with the environment. So different countries will have different percentages in general how many people stutter in the country. But it's a lot more than people think. >> But this is a worldwide thing. Every country this doesn't discriminate. Correct. >> Yeah. I anyone who I meet that you know I'm very I'm very secluded in the in the Jewish world. >> But uh and it's busy enough >> but uh anyone who I meet I meet a taxi driver and this I'll ask them by the way you know people. I had this question so I I interview people. You know anyone who studies in your country? Yeah. Yeah sure. But getting back to the ratio from my experience and I have >> uh male and female speech therapists working in my practice so you know we cater to everyone um >> it's more like 10 to1 ratio >> wow why do you think that is >> I tell you interesting rem to this >> the gamarra says that tishakaban came to the world >> and nine the women took and when the men took I say that's Uh that's a good ratio. The women have the power of speech. They have that that kayak. >> That is powerful stuff. I like it. >> In general, I who I spoke to researcher was I think that yeah the women develop speech faster at a younger age also. >> Wow. That is interesting stuff. Um I know I mean as much as I know I don't know much but uh is there sometimes the stuttering gets into your affects you in a to a point that you can't get a word out which means you get so uh either in public or between a few people you gather the courage to say something and this will just just make you silent. So when a person stutters for let's say 3 seconds it feels like 3 minutes >> right >> but yeah there are people who stutter for 30 seconds and even if it's not all the time but they can stutter at times like a really hard moment you know I could vividly remember like one of my longest stutters you know in the bungalow and somebody asked me my name you know like I even wanted to like ask him if he if he wants to go out with my sister like what was lot going on in my in my mind like am I going to have to say something am I not it turns out the guy was married anyway his wife was walking right next to him but I didn't you know awkward situation >> and I remember stuttering so much then like that was one of the worst I was turning colors and >> but some people could stutter you know so I for five minutes >> I remember I went to someone once he told me like you know tried to give me a different perspective on my stuttering he's like you know stud just a matter of time interesting perspective I didn't think of it like that. So I was like it's just a matter of time. Okay. So that lasted you know that I got lasted till the next bout of stuttering. I was like well I whatever whatever you want to call it this is not Kushmak. >> But I passed this on to other people you know what do you think about stuttering is just a matter of time. >> Yeah. >> So some people who started tell me no just a matter of time. >> I think if I would still be trying to say what I want to say you know last year I think I would still be I would still be there. I just I I gave up. It's not coming out. What message would you want to give to the school system? Boys and girls, they deal with this every day. They can lift somebody up. They can, you know, if they can neglect somebody or about what did they tell the other students, >> how to be sensitive. I think they should be asking this question more because you know the schools deal with a lot of things of course >> and studying is very important but it's it seems to me like it's one of those things that like is just under the radar >> like what's most important >> like of course it's a very heavy stutter well that's like we how are we going to deal with this I mean I have people who are not accepted in schools >> right >> some people like when they hear that what somebody came to you after not accepted in any school because of the studying it's not fear you know they they love the boy >> but then he's not going to get kuses. >> We can't have this boy over here. He's not going to participate. We see the way it's not so simple. But what can parents what can the teachers do? >> So it's really a loaded question. I have spoken at the term convention >> from it's the first time they ever had anyone speak about stuttering. >> I hope to be speaking there again. >> Yeah. Um I've spoken to other it's really it's a whole it's a it's a whole talk for for itself. Um and a lot of times they don't even know what stuttering is. So they look like oh he's just a quiet boy in the back doesn't have much to say and really the guy could be has a lot to say but even if they um they they have to put themselves in the shoes of the of these children because what you were describing before is excruciating. these I mean how when you I don't know if you have to be more sensitive and not not ask from these kids certain things to step up in public or you know sensitivity >> right so I say the the the most powerful thing I can say you know to the point is that they should try to find ways to not put their speech in the spotlight >> right >> you know asking them to read or calling out exact things you know >> more sensitive you know most people who stutter you know it's it's sensitive situation and therefore don't find other ways. Go out of just one one trick is that it's much easier to ask yes or no questions. You know, >> general people don't stutter on yes or no. And besides, you could always just nod your head or go uh-huh or uh >> so that's always the much easier way. >> So, so they need to know this. It's important for them to know those things. >> I have a lot of different things that they need to know. I'll just say one more like just eye opening, you know, like the system is that if you right if you need the bathroom, you uh you call raise your hand. What do you want? The bathroom. Right. But some people said, "Oh, they'll be afraid." Like, "Yes, what do you want?" And I'm like, "Uh, I was when you were raising your hand, you probably want something, right?" >> Um, yeah. So, can, you know, might not be coming out that I could just say, you know, "Can I have the bathroom?" So, we should have like one of those tricks, you know, like >> raise two fingers if it's for the bathroom. That's it. You just solve the problem. >> Simple solution. uh now what about them teaching the children about bullying or laugh you know also about is if this is not a subject and in the meantime this can uh have severe effects on the child's mental health so these are loaded topics you know bullying you know what and and yeah teachers do have a limited effect but I would say that the good news is that for most people that I interviewed stuttering is something that people in general are sensitive about >> and therefore it's not such a thing that you know obviously it can happen and maybe we hear those stories a person was bullied and and made fun of and I don't know doesn't want to go back to school but whatever it is but it usually doesn't happen it's one of those things that somehow people understand that this is sensitive and it's not so common but when it does happen yeah they have to >> that definitely has to be addressed but it's it's a bigger it's a bigger thing but one of the again simple is You know, if a person is stronger physically, then they're less of a target, >> right? >> So, like for myself, you know, I used to I used to work out a lot. >> Mhm. >> And I used to take karate and do all different types of stuff. >> So, you know, I you know, people knew >> you can handle >> you're not going to it's just not if you want to if you want to have your teeth in your mouth, don't make fun of me. Now what about >> I can't make you stutter but I can make you not talk so to speak. >> What about parents? Because here parents have a crucial role over here because on one hand they'll have anxiety because my child is stuttering and they get all nervous about it. They can make the child even more nervous by being nervous and sometimes they're doing the right thing which is you know what should a parents know? What kind of words do you use? Are you bringing this child down? Are you bringing him up? What kind of advice can you give for a parent to to have a balance over this? So the child sees the parent parent panicking, they'll panic twice. >> Yeah. So parents are confused when the child stutters like what is this? They're also not confused. Is this a stutter? >> Maybe it's a language. Maybe it's social anxiety. Maybe it's something to do with your blood. Let's take a test. Maybe it's some type of trauma happened that you know in in in playgroup or in school like what's what's going on? Um the first thing and and that's a very difficult situation to be in because you don't even know what direction to turn in. >> Wait, should I should I go to speech therapist local a specialist do nothing do something? So there's a lot of questions. Will it go away? If I if I deal with it, will it make it worse? So unfortunately, you know, parents get swept onto things because they're very desperate. >> Mhm. >> And they could go in any direction and they're not educated. So this was the the drive behind the new >> uh seminar that that I have, new organization. It's called step one stuttering. >> I look at as my my project. It's it's it's bubas for the for the seminar and it's gives over from my experience of what parents want to know what parents have been asking me for the last 10 years and pretty much I I've been doing this all day every day except for shabi what parents want to know and what they should know >> and it started with you know free advice and print going up 20 minutes you know the young child and then it developed more and more and I and now we have an hour and a half of information that parents should be educated on understand this well and it's it's short. It's a one-time seminar. I I run it like every month or every six weeks. Parents join from around the world. And it's it's education and it's also what parents can do because at a younger age there's more the parents can do than therapist can do because you're around your child more, >> right? >> So you can have more influence and maybe you're the reason why child's stuttering. >> So the speech therapist can't really help with that. So the bottom line is the parents have more influence on their children and they should be the one educated. So most speech therapists don't have that approach of like okay I'll give what I know to you and you'll take care of it or they know you keep coming to me. >> I'm not like that. I'll teach you everything you need to know and you'll be the best person to help your child. >> No, there's a lot of what parents can do, hands on what parents can do. Uh but just the education alone um makes parents much more calm. And when the parents are more calm like I I remember a parent telling me the next day before they even implemented the skills they felt just after the seminar the child was speaking better. I was like what do you attribute that to? They said well we didn't even apply any skills. We just we just felt empowered like okay we understand this. We know what to do what what's going on. We know our options and what's the pros and cons of the different approaches and we were more confident and obviously it affected the child. >> Unbelievable stuff. Unbelievable stuff how important that is. Um, and what is the difference from speech therapy to stutter? I mean, is there a difference from the two? >> So, there's a lot that therapists learn in college. Uh, for speech therapy in general, >> definitely the most complex one is stuttering. Hands down, everybody does speech therapy. >> Stuttering is unique. >> Speech therapy is um >> for lisp, for language, >> these type of things. cluttering, unclear >> stuttering is just one part of it, >> right? There's like eight main topics that they learn. Stuttering is just one. And unfortunately, stuttering is the least developed. >> And it's important to know this because >> when people are looking for help >> for their stuttering, they say, "Hey, >> I want to go to speech therapist." And and and I see even on the advertisement, look, they specializes in eight things. >> Well, isn't that where you went all these 15 years? Well, I went to everyone whoever I mean first I started with a speech therapist then I went to stuttering specialist >> but even just understanding that there's a very big difference between a speech therapist especially when they say like they advertise on 10 things and one of them is stuttering so you feel oh I'm going to stutter specialist look at that and >> but first of all besides that you can't really specialize in 10 things especially when it comes to stuttering I'm just doing stuttering I'm busy enough just stuttering >> so it's important to know that stuttering is a very big specialty Do you, this is a funny question. What was the darkest moment in your journey as far as studying goes that you remember? I have one darkest what pops into my mind. I didn't really think about it so much because it was always just one big struggle. So, it didn't like didn't have like the darkest moment. Oh, I hit a rock bottom now I have to fix it. It was always like wait I I need to fix this. What? You mentioned like barita. Oh, I got still got the chills. Baritza. Yikes. >> And uh asking a rough question or speaking in public. Whoa. This is and this is part of my passion to help other people because I understand this very well. >> You know, I I treat I try to shape everyone the same. >> But yeah, if someone's coming to say the is in two weeks or the in two weeks, I try to bend over back as much as I can. I know what's about to happen or what could happen and what can be fixed and change everything for the person. >> You were mentioning before you were talking to the you had there's times that you were like please I need you. I need this. I need you by my side. How grateful are you now to the the tremendous gratefulness every morning that you got a life? Something I look back to whenever I need it's like remember when you used to stutter it's like you remember feeling like if I would stop stuttering it's just like everything's good just keep remember everything's amazing I I can talk >> that is one one one crazy life to live every day you you like you got a gift >> that you know that everyone takes for granted everyone should be grateful for that you should you would think you know people say thank you Hashem and this and that but you know it's It's part of my passion of helping other people. I feel like I feel like this is this is not this is my it's my mission. >> Yeah. >> So, whatever helps me fulfill this mission, this is what I do. And if I can make it better and faster, so I'm going to do it. And I've done a lot of things to develop this field. Um I'll give an example. Something that really when I'm going to say it, you're going to be like, "Oh, that's part of that. That's such a great idea. Why hasn't been done before?" So, like for example, I have follow-ups if after I teach them the skills, so they're on track, you want to make it a part of them. That's the only way they're going to be successful long term. >> Yeah. >> So, I have former stutterers following up with newer guys. >> Is this is >> why is it this is a break. This is the next level of not just that. Yeah. >> In in this is like sponsors. Sponsors in Alcoholic by the Alcoholic Anonymous, everyone has a sponsor. What you're doing is a very powerful thing. What you're doing is you're getting people who are part of this and they become your sponsor. They call they give to each other. >> It's an amazing program. And because I have a lot of these success stories, I can be picky of who I want to train in. So I'll pick you know in the beginning it was like the with the and the with the because they have a different way of encouraging and giving things over and different languages and then I have the women with the women have the older with the younger have all you know I could be very specific and the guy who went to six speech therapist before they came don't worry I have somebody for you this guy went to 10 now you're more receptive to this guy because he's just and you see that they're not just like a little bit better than they used to be a real role model now mosham you know you know I I get pickier over time you know who are my coaches who really prove themselves >> and now you know a lot of my coaches now are doing this for like five six years >> that that's one example another example is so I I always looking to develop it and make it better and faster so like another thing is I saw that some people had a harder time making those the breakthroughs in their nevers like we mentioned a few of them getting an LE uh things like that. But you have over here an opport so they don't have let's say we call it the the courage to like get it back up. This is something they promised themselves they they'll never speak again in public. It's almost like a trauma like I'm not doing that >> right. >> So what I've done is I've created these skills groups where people come together and apply their skills not a support group. This is a skills I have a way of getting better but I need that group to implement it and to really prove it to myself. So we have everyone get an aliyah you know I'll make it as real as possible. Go to you want them to rewire their brain with their own way of thinking and start believing that you can do it. Do you see that you could do it and if you do it once you could do it again >> right >> sometimes people come back for a second time and they get even more confident but they'll have them speak in public and I I've even done shabatones so there are few days get it in there not like in this theoretical island like we're speaking a little bit funny and it's okay everyone's being patient and no this is for real this is regular and I invite people to come speakers and you know a lot of the people who back my program like I have a lot of big rabbon and big psychologists are the people who I come to the group, you'll see for yourself 12 people, talk to them. You know, you it's very different like, you know, you can have like somebody who prepares a speech for two months to speak in front of two minutes for two minutes in front of a big crowd say, "Wow, that's amazing." But that's not that's a little uh >> it it's could be fooling because they prepared for two months that those two minutes here. It's like regular flowing conversation. The big doctor, the big therapist comes in. Hey, you can question answer series. Ask doctor whatever you want. it's unprepared, right? >> And the doctor's going to ask you, "What's your name?" And it's in a group. It's it's it's the real thing, >> right? >> So then they feel much more confident. So again, this is something that >> has not been done in the past >> and and I know what needs to be done. I'll give an example like even in this I kept on developing it. Like I remember I was driving someone to bring him to the bakery, you know, and uh he'll introduce himself to the and and say what he really wants to say and order what he really wants to order, not what's easiest for him to say. On the way, I saw a policeman, you know, on the side of the road helping with those um construction going on. So, the cop wasn't doing anything, right? >> I pulled right right then and there because this is my mindset right on the spot. I pulled over right behind the cop and I said, "Let's get out of the car. Let's smoo with the cop, right? >> You know those intimidating guys, you know, he's he's got a gun on him. >> Let's let's go over to him. Say, hey, you know, he this guy was happens to be was like he flew in from out of the country, so he's like an accent." The cop was asking, "Hey, what's what are you doing here?" like the accent. Yeah. Talking about England and this whatever it was and like all these things like they they see like I could really do this. I was with this random guy and and I didn't prepare for it. So all these types of things that that whatever I can do to give the people the confidence they can really do it. That's these are the things I'm implementing. >> Wow. Now it seems like that you went through a lot yourself and you're helping other people. How did it change you as a person like uh this experience like uh your personality? Very good question. You know, I I like your questions. >> Yeah, >> I see they're very thought out, >> if I may say. Go on a tangent over here. This one I've never been asked before. >> So, I have to think about this one. But what comes to mind is >> there's a lot of different aspects. One of them is that I enjoy giving over to other people and now it's like easy for me >> and I'm very happy that I can take something that was a challenge for me and give that back to other people and I I get more meaning out of like what I went through and I you know it comes to me like oh now I understand why I have to go through that challenge. >> Correct. >> Oh this guy has such a hard time. He just got married and now he has to go to a whole new family and like what's going to be I I was there. I know exactly. We don't even have to discuss it. People don't feel they have to to explain things to me. They know they're sitting in front of me. Within a few minutes they realize how I'm talking like I understand you. So we could jump right into the speech therapy and they'll be more receptive to listen to what I'm saying because I'm saying this is this is practical. This is easy that you could really do this. >> But another thing is this is just is interesting. I I I tell this to my wife. That's what comes to my mind first is that when I before I was before I stopped stuttering >> right >> I was doing my own thing you know I wasn't into who has money I didn't care I didn't care I didn't care about listen I just cared about one thing I basically I just wanted to sit and learn >> right >> and now that I got into this field like my eyes opening like I I'm getting much more life experience in a way I still love to learn >> but I'm getting so much life experience of like and and it's easy for me like I feel like I'm catching up like so >> quickly whatever I was missing I'm getting now because I meet all types of call them rich and famous people because anybody could stutter that's the that's my clients the whole world say I'm seeing people all different types you know heavy you know rubbish everyone >> yeah And it gives me a lot of insight like different people and I I even learned different languages. I speak a little bit Persian. I speak a little bit French. I don't you know all different types of people and and I've been flown out all over the world, you know. I I didn't I I don't want to I wasn't interested in traveling anywhere, you know, but there are therapists that have organizations that like I explained they know uh they don't really treat stuttering and they want to help these people. So they've done the research who should they should bring in and I've been flown out all over the world. I've been in Manchester three times, >> London three times. I didn't go to see the London Bridge. I I've heard of it. I don't know if it still exists, >> but uh I didn't do anything just stuttering. And I've been to Israel, you know, four times. And I have more trips scheduled, but I come and I see groups of people. It's it's one-on-one. >> And like that mean the first time I was flying. Yeah. Like I was like, I would have flown to why am I going to London? I don't even know anyone on London. I mean, I heard they're lovely people, but uh you know, why why am I going here? Like I would have gone here for my own therapy if I would have heard that someone could help me and like I'm going here to help other people. It's like >> and then like I get to see what's going on in the world just from my stuttering practice. I get to see what's going on. So like I feel like I caught up on all these things and I understand what's going on. What's so amazing about it is that we always hear for people who are going through a hard time, not only in stuttering, throughout their life. And the word is that you will see that eventually this was good. Eventually this was something that needed to happen and you will actually take it and and make it a stepping stone and do. You're an example of that. You're an example that you can say to yourself, I had this challenge and look what look where I am right now. I'm still in it and I have no I have no plan of giving it up. So my question is to you did this experience gave you a deeper connection to the could be when I was still stuttering it was deeper then >> because I had to call out all the time Hashem please help me talk >> unbelievable >> and of course I thank Hashem >> but it's maybe it should be 10 times a day but It's not 10 times a day, >> right? >> And um life is definitely easier. So I have a lot of tell that life is so much easier now without a stutter, >> right? >> But as far as connection to Hashem, >> it's it's it's different because life was a bigger struggle then. But I I called it Hashem and now life is easier and I'm thinking Hashem. That's a different type of of connection. >> I got one final question for you. What message do you have for a person who is listening to this? A teenager or a parent of a child who stutters. So if your child is very young then get educated. See what stuttering is all about. See what stuttering is, what is not. If should go for therapy, should you not go for therapy? What are the safe ways that a parent can do to help their child? If the person is already older and basically the less parents can do, the more they can do for themselves, then you want to make sure the person is mature and motivated. This is like learning an instrument. Okay. But you only have to play one song. >> Yeah. >> So, it's not so hard. So, at least at least in my program, it's a way that really works, but you have to take it seriously. There's no magic out there, right? And if you are serious and you're going to be consistent and it's not overwhelming at all, but you're ready to learn that one song. And if that's important to you, then we can show you how to do that very quickly. If you're serious about getting help, don't come because you feel it's important. Only come if you feel it's going to be successful. So, if you're ready to do what it takes and it's very simple, it's very natural. It's time to realize that there's a real way for you. And I think that that's the best that somebody could get that >> you don't have to stutter. >> Instead of talking about being okay with stuttering, if there's a way to help yourself, then even if you struggle with this in the past, >> doesn't take long, but if you're serious, then there's a way to get help. >> Very good. Very good. What you display today is um you modeled for us that you can rewrite um you can rewrite the script of life. You can take a struggle and turn it into a strength which is a beautiful thing that should help you that you should be the right to help his children to help and you should all always be in whatever you do. >> Right. Thank you. >> Thank you. and thank that I'm in this position. This is something that I I feel I haven't worked a day in my life. I love I love doing this and I however much the struggle was of stuttering, I see the mission this and helping people talk that whatever they're going to be doing now is going to be so much better and especially for you then what they're going to use their speech for, >> you know, and in how it can enhance their life. So you're >> saving people's lives like you just said that you're helping people d you're helping people learn. >> It's it's it's it's it's Hashem's work. It's life saving. >> It's every stage whatever stage they're at. You see how that could enhance >> if they're to get into a yeshiva to get a job to get a a shak to whatever whatever stage it is. It's always it could have major effect on a person's life. >> Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Thank you for having me.