Children May Not Remember — But Their Nervous System Will - Yehoshua Saks LCSW - S2-12

I don't think a a child's job is to make a parent proud. Parent child relationship is the most effective and important mental health intervention known to mankind. Those parents are in their child state, they want to be friends with them. So, but the minute the friend surpasses them or starts being more successful than them, >> right? >> Then in the friend relationship, there's that jealousy in a weird way. >> What is a grandparent's job? Whatever you're able to give to your child in this healthy way is setting his marriage up. There's nothing more scary to a child than losing their attachment. >> Is there a time that when a parent can yell? >> Okay. We are privileged to have here today a parenting expert. His name is Shua Saxs. Um we will discuss uh fundamental elements um of human experience and I know that you use a lot the word attachment and we will dive into this. We're going to try to figure out what attachment is. Shua helps parents um create longlasting relationships, meaningful relationships, tries to help parents create a safe space for their children. Welcome to the struggle. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you. Thank you for coming. >> Thank you. >> Okay. So before we're going to get into attachment and all these um you know important things I just want to discuss with you you know I just want to become aware and help people become aware how important parenting is. Parenting is the foundation of everything. You know you talk to professionals you talk to people all over they will tell you that everything is rooted in childhood. Right. The the first people the child encounters when they come into the world is the parents and the first 20 years is the crucial years and then you have the rest of your life to unwire or to deal whatever the case is what was going on. So the >> and the avoid of having creating healthy children is parenting and I don't think people take it so serious. You know, young people, everybody wants to have a family and everybody wants to have children and it's all beautiful and it comes with all the bells and whistles. [snorts] But the emotional part is so crucial because that's what the therapists say today. Talk to every adult who already who's in the middle of parenting his own children is is all about their childhood. And while they're raising their children, they're in the middle of reparing themselves. It is an unbelievable topic and a crucial one because we also see today teenagers and there's a lot of talk about ODTs and this problems and that problems and rifts and families and what you're coming here what you your message is let's start from the bottom. Let's start from the foundation. Let's start from the beginning and let's figure out how the aayas that a that a parent has and let's let's let's do this the right way. We want to talk about attachment and it's an interesting word and we want to know if you can explain a little bit if this is attachment is a positive word. Is it a negative word? Is it a scary word? Because attachment sometimes is uh they use it for you're attached to another human being which is toxic which is codependency. Explain what is attachment. >> Okay. First of all, thank you so much for uh having me on. Um so first to your first point of just how important >> connect >> um the parent relationship is um Bessel Vanderlock who wrote the body keeps a score um he's he's quite um recognized he says something very profound which I think talked to exactly what you said he said the parent child relationship is the most effective and important mental health intervention known to mankind. Wow. >> So, there's everything out there. Um, and I think everything out there comes from a desperation where, oh no, we have to get help for this or oh no, there has to be help for this. And that's where the energy is and that's where the the movement happens to go to somewhere. But I think that hopefully inspiration beside not just desperation but also inspiration can can help almost like nip it in the bud. If this is true that it is the most effective mental health intervention that's powerful. There's a lot of mental health interventions. Many of them are amazing but like you said a lot of them are really coming to undo what could have happened. >> Okay. And so sometimes it goes like a child seems like they're doing okay or parents are not up for a child's temperament that they're born into a world with a certain temperament and being in tune to that can really help down the line like just saving families money, time and effort. Um but then to the point of what attachment is. So attachment is it's an interesting word. You're right. Yeah. >> Um, basically it's a very simple um, it's very simple. It's basically the relationship the child had with their parents. What type of relationship that was. So, it's really I'm going to there's they break it down into four parts, different types of attachment models, which is what you were saying. Sometimes there could be a codependency type of attachment. Um, and there's different levels. There's anxious attachment, a type of attachment. Then there's the ambivalent attachment. And then there's the avoidant. And then there's um disorganized, which is something a little one of the symptoms will be what you're saying where there's that that codependency, >> right? >> But um let if we're talking attachment really >> healthy attachment. >> Exactly. Healthy attachment. And that's what that's what I'm saying. That's will be the drive to it. And everyone talks about it. I'm going to say everyone talks about attachment, love, being connected. Let let's see if we can figure out how to do that. Um some tips or even some like shifts in our focus and like what we assume to be true, maybe shifting that a little bit so that our child will feel connected because sometimes our idea of attachment and our idea of connection is not really what this child needs. Right. >> So it's it's um so that's really that's what it is. I think um the thing that we're try we're striving for is in the clinical world it's called secure attachment. >> Mhm. >> And secure attachment is something that a child is feel secure and safe and seen and loved by a caregiver. And what happens is is that gives almost like the motor or sort of organizes the child in a way that now they can go out and explore the world because guess what? Even if something happens that he didn't succeed or he got hurt by somebody, he always has a place to come back to to that secure place. >> Right now you're talking about both parents attachment, right? This is not only one parent. I'm talking about both, but one one can do it too, >> right? Because what happens is that sometimes one has a different personality than the other. And here the child is a total different personality and now we're trying to make attachments. >> That's right. >> So what you're saying is that even if one has a healthy one, it is going to help for this child to be safe and secure. >> Absolutely. Sometimes I think what you're alluding to is one parent might have this disorganized piece where they're a little scary sometimes loving another time, but then you have that other stable parent. >> That's definitely [clears throat] an anchor, definitely something helpful for for the for the for the child. >> Um, if there's like the negative pulling back, it can fill in the pieces. But I'm going to say even one a child that knows it can come to their primary caregiver which normally is the mother. But really anyone can do it. >> Yeah. And that will help the child. Now let me ask you a question. What if the parent uh did not have a healthy uh attachment to their parents? So, here we're talking to young people or middle-aged people who still have young kids in the house and they see that the kids are like, you know, acting up and the the relationship is not where it's supposed to be. But there's clearly there was attachment issues to their parents especially, you know, Holocaust survivors or, you know, even another generation away from the Holocaust survivor. This is this is this is not so simple to unwire. [snorts] So we you see yourself in a place where there's can I know how I don't know how many kids and the population is growing but the parents had no attachment. >> It's a great question. I think that's where the education has to happen. I think that's where um even I'm going to say even the acknowledgement >> just the fact that um you acknowledge that uh you didn't have that attachment and the willingness that you want will suit the child >> that will set you in a place that you'll do better for your child. >> Wow. >> We'll ask you a question. Take a scenario where you have a young adult, 30 years old, raising a family, 40 years old, and their parents, it it was it was a hard childhood, and they're listening to this now. What do you think their childhood would have been like if their parents sat down and watched something that that shifted? Oh, wow. Really, there's development of a child. Really, a child's not just a piece of furniture, >> right? >> Really? were able to just we're able to to achieve. Whoa. Even if that's all that they got, don't you think that you as that four-year-old would have had a bit of a different childhood? >> Absolutely. >> Or less of a scary one or more of an understanding one. >> So, it's really it's really just that just the knowledge and then reading about it, experiencing it. I'm going to say even trying to experiment little things and seeing if it works. Those those type of things absolutely a huge shift. And not only are you changing something, here's what what I feel so strongly why it's so strong to your point like exactly like you're saying. You're talking about a parent raising a child now. But guess what? His parents that raised him a certain way were raised by their parents who were raised by their parents. Just as acknowledgement and the ability to shift a little bit is literally changing your future grandchildren's lives, >> right? >> So, and your children's marriages cuz that's an attachment also. So, their first attachment is going to sort of follow into the next relationship of marriage. There's so much that you're doing in just that, >> right? >> You literally stop, you know, they said during co you like one person moves away and then it stops the whole thing. So, that's literally what you're doing. You're like moving the flame a little bit away so it can't catch on to the next thing. >> That's amazing stuff. The awareness is such a powerful thing. >> Forget about doing. Doing is coming after. But first have introspect. >> Absolutely. >> And and and and see where you're going. >> Absolutely. >> Tremendous. >> It's it's um so much of the work is the parents work and that's what's hard. We call it child rearing, I guess, but >> everyone calls it parenting. You're a parent. It's an interesting word also. >> Yeah. >> Like you said, you're parenting yourself. Like you're learning how to you you you're becoming it's it's on you. It's on the parent. The the verb of the parenting is really on the parent, >> right? >> To be able to grow on their own end, be able to become more empathetic. >> You're learning on the job. literally learning on the job. If you're if you're willing to learn on it, you grow so much and you change as a person. Your relationships change in your marriage, your relationships change in business, your rel cuz you've got sort of a broad idea of what can really like help a tantrum. What can really calm someone down? >> Right. So what you were describing is attachment in a positive way and that fulfills the child. It it sends off the child to school or in a very uh safe and secure uh peaceful knowing that I'm attached to my parent and my parent has my back. We're both attached by the hip and it builds the self-esteem in the child. What about attachments when it comes to uh friends? Uh is there is this also a healthy way of being attached having like a squad? I have my my people or people who belong to a cahila is is the belonging part of attachment and is it a healthy is is there a healthy attachment when it comes to community? So absolutely I think you're touching on to one of the pieces of attachment in what a way to connect with a child is to fill their needs. >> Right. >> When we fill a child's needs, they're able to rest. >> So a a parent has to know what the child's needs are. >> That's right. So you touched on one of them. One of the needs is a feeling of belonging. >> Very very strong. The feeling of belonging really comes from this emotional connection. When a child feels emotionally connected to someone, they feel like they belong. They feel like they belong to their father, their mother. They feel like they belong to their family, their nuclear family, >> that feeling of belonging. What I'm going to say is I want to go the other way. I want to say if a child was really given that and that was actually I don't want to say like stamped but maybe like vaccinated in you know like it was in what what occurs is is that it's easier for them to attach and belong to the right groups to the right communities >> to the right friends because they know what healthy feels like. >> Correct. They don't need. See, everyone says, "Oh, they're in pain and they need to go run and they need to go run to something else." That's so true. Now, let's go back. How do we not create that? When you give your child that sense of belonging through emotional connection, which is very hard to do, >> right? But and we can go through how and what to do. But if you give that what you've done is you've sort of wired in their system that this feels super good because everyone's wired for a connection. Everyone needs that healthy emotional connection. So they're not going to really it's going to be a lure, but it's not going to be that like push that they have to get rid of something that they're missing and fill it with that because they've actually had that. Well, you you're saying something very profound and let let me let me I'll I'll tell you what I heard from you and tell me if I am correct. What you're saying is that if a parent is providing a healthy um connection, a healthy emotional connection, a healthy attachment, secure attachment with the child, what is going to happen is that that child is going to look for healthy relationships outside as well. What you're saying is in other words that you're preventing a ton of problems of bad friends, bad environments because first of all the child doesn't uh need to go and fill this void from someplace else and on the other hand this was modeled to them. They know what respect is. They know what empathy is and that child is giving over the same empathy. Same the child is looking and searching and magnetically pulling the same type of relationships. >> That's right. >> This is crazy important to know for a parent. >> It is super important. I want to I want to add something take it a step further. Trauma is is an event that's happened to somebody or hasn't you know a sort of a neglect or whatever. There's different types of trauma. There's the complex trauma which is the, you know, the emotional pieces. There's um incidents of trauma, one-time traumas, constant traumas, all different types of traumas. The ability like I was saying to go back to someone and to connect with somebody that you know is there I don't want to say takes it away >> but it takes a huge ingredient >> out of what the trauma is. Trauma is an event but it's also a wound inside. And a if somebody has that template and the ability to go to somebody and say this happened to me, >> this is happening to me. >> Right? >> I want to just take a simple example, bullying, >> right? >> Why should a child have to hold that >> in their little undeveloped brain and sit with that? >> That's traumatizing to a child. What I'm saying is is that that's wounding. There's a wound inside and that wound needs to be healed. They'll heal it in a hundred different ways with bad medicine, like we were saying, go to try to ease that pain, ease that. But if a par if they can go back to the core because they know they can and they have a pathway to go there, that takes away so much of it. >> Wow. That will help minimize the trauma. >> It's amazing stuff what you're saying. It's fascinating. >> But what you're saying, tell me if this is correct, if I understand it correctly. What you're saying is if a child is not comfortable enough to go to the parents and share let's say the child was sexually molested or the child was bullied or any other trauma was going on and the child [clears throat] doesn't feel it. You have to feel this. This is not about the parents telling you you can come you can come and talk to me. The child has to feel >> experience that >> that they can come and [clears throat] share this with the parents and be validated and be believed and and and feel the empathy. You blame the parents for that because a little child would say he's embarrassed to go say it. I mean, how can you make the child become more but it's really not the child. What you're saying is that the parents should step up to the plate because if you don't build an environment in the house that you can come to me and you're comfortable enough to come to me and also know that if you you will be validated then it's the parents responsibility. >> I think it's very important I always try and keep things as positive as as possible because I truly believe and this is really really important. I truly believe that every parent does whatever he or she can do at the moment. They really, everyone wants to do everything to the best of their ability. They just don't necessarily have that ability at that given moment, >> right? >> Things change. I'm going to say a parent that parented their first child's very different than one that they parented their third or fourth child, >> right? >> Because there's so we've grown. There's so much differences in in the temperament of the child. I'm going to say in what's going on at home in financial situations everything's so different. So, but I think every parent tries their does the best of their ability and this is just to give a parent the knowledge and just like how powerful they really are. >> Correct? >> In a good way, >> right? >> Not in a way of trying to say, "Oh, you're to blame. There's no one to blame." It's much more of understanding parents that have young children to be able to cultivate this environment in their home can really really help them. Not only help a child be feel like they can come over, but it builds resilience in the child. The ability, like I said, something goes wrong, it's not like the world's over. >> You're able to come back to something. >> Wow. That that is amazing stuff. How would you describe unhealthy attachment? >> So the un I think that unhealthy we can go all the way to the other spectrum. Unhealthy attachment's something there's a couple types of quote unquote unhealthy, but like the one that really stands out and what a lot of people will be in therapy for, let's say, is something called disorganized attachment. Disorganized attachment is something that where it's very confusing to a child. Sometimes a caregiver is available and sometimes they're totally not >> but like in very extreme ways. We're all human. Anyone with secure attachment need meaning in that relationship a secure call it a relationship or connection. There's going to be times where the other person checks out or screams or gets upset. That's for sure. But the constant pattern of sometimes totally there and sometimes actually sometimes scary. >> Yeah. >> Meaning the parent scary to the child. The child you the child starts there's so much stuff that's happening but on a very surface level they start they start learning that relationships aren't safe. >> Right. Like Monday is one way and Tuesday is another way. >> Yes. and relationships aren't safe. And even if I'm in a relationship, it might just change. So let's take a marriage or a friendship, >> right, >> where that where where they can't hold it, not because they don't want it, but because they don't know how to navigate it. So if one day the friend decides to walk with another friend, they see that as that Tuesday every Tuesday or whatever that parent just >> got upset or angry or whatever. And that triggers that peace in them and then they can't keep that relationship. >> Yeah. That messes with people's minds tremendously. And that this is between adults, relationship adults. >> If you blow this hot and cold all the time. >> Yes. >> It's messing with people because this is probably one of the worst out there because the messages are coming in not clear. >> Yes. And it's so confusing like a child that's developing. So like if you want to think of a child's brain as like as a ton of wires. >> Yeah. >> And those wires are not really solidified into any circuit or into anything when they're born. And as it when I say development, I mean these wires are literally being stretched, moved, put >> pathways are being created. So when you start creating the you literally are developing these pathways to be like no we got to short circuit here or we got to do this or we got this is the way the brain is formed. Yeah it can be it can be extremely challenging to undo. Do you find in your practice when you talk to people that children feel sometimes that the parents are threatened by them or jealous? You know, as soon as the child becomes a little bit older and they they they look at the child and they feel a certain distance, uh where does that come from? >> So, I think it's interesting that you're asking that. I think that really goes into um [clears throat] not a parenting style, but there's there's sort of like um it's it's it's sort of like a state of being in something called a a child state. A child state is a a place where like sometimes we go, we get a little silly, we have fun, you know, we like sort of let the child inside of us like jump out and have a ton of fun, you know, >> but like it's not really a great place to hang out as an adult all the time, >> right? Like I always think of it, you know, we always had someone in our class, I don't know if everyone can can think of it of it this way, like we always had someone in our class that had like always had the best Nash, but like I cheer and they always had pizza for supper and they always like it was like a party in their house and we're always like jealous like we wanted to go there and then we would go there maybe for a sleepover and it would be like gmach and really nice but then like I don't know by the time by the time be done. You're like, you're ready to leave. >> Those parents are in their child state. That means that they're they're they're really friends with the child. >> They want to be friends with them. So, but the minute the friend surpasses them >> Uhhuh. >> or starts being more successful than them, >> right? >> Then in the friend relationship, there's that jealousy in a weird way. >> That's fascinating. But it's the emotional immaturity or the need for more emotional maturity on the parents end. But it's not just in parenting usually that these parents are this way. It's really across the board. >> Mhm. Wow. >> Now where is the balance of a person who wants a healthy secure attachment wants that friendship you know wants that closeness but on the other hand a balance of respect also. >> Absolutely. And I think that's very um confusing to people. And I think people um say it's either or, >> you know, like just love them, just give them whatever they want, just love them. And then there's like but we need respect. I would never say that to my father. There was a certain respect for that. >> So there's many different levels to that. I'm going to say the strictest parent can have the healthiest attachment. It's not a steal, >> right? It's all in the way that you do it and I think it's a lot in the focus of what's my goal. Um, but absolutely it's not a steer at all. I do want to touch upon what you just said. It's very interesting where there is the need for respect and I'm going to say 50 60 years ago that was demanded. >> Yeah. >> And we gave it and we need it was just it was almost like part of the culture that it needed to happen that way. for some reason now it's not there and if I can explain it a little bit I think it it's not fixing it but I think it's helpful for parents to understand even grandparents to understand what's going on with their grandchildren I think um 50 60 years ago there was a the dynamic really in all relationships if you would take relationships on a whole so like take principal to teacher teacher to child, um, business boss to to employee, husband to wife, father to child. There was a certain I'm going to say like role that everyone had like the father went out to work, the mother stayed home or or did something it and each one had their role. Like it was like the father would come home from work, he did this. And from a child's perspective, looking at those relationships, it wasn't equal. It was like whatever what Tati says or what what your father says, he said, you know, that there was no equal democracy or dynamic that was happening that way. principle to to arbi also there was a there was there was something very like [snorts] I don't want to say removed but there was there was a a clear hierarchy of like what's going on and then you would and then let's take um a rebbit child same type of thing what started shifting is that all relationships really around started becoming more 50/50 or democratic Right? >> You know, both parents worked. You asked T, okay, maybe Tati will say, what does mommy say? What does Aba say? What? There's this back and forth. It wasn't like one had to say in this and this one had to say in this. It's really everyone working in tandem. >> Same thing in schools really. It's shifted like the assistant is really like the rebby in a child's eyes. There's no clear power dynamic. So if a child is seeing that now, why in heaven's name like want to lean into a relationship where it's all like pushing you down? All they see is equal. So that's where I think the shift happened. And that's where I think we have to lean into that, fill that a little bit, but obviously keep our respect. Obviously kids can't rule. That's anarchy. That's not something that's that's um healthy for a home and it's actually scary for a child, >> right? Even the child doesn't expect it. [snorts] >> Child doesn't want to run the house. The child wants authority. He wants to see that the parents the father's a giver, you know. >> Absolutely. >> He you know he can he can protect me if I need to. If he has an opinion, >> someone that can protect me but also understands me. >> Correct. Now you mentioned the word grandparents and I'm going to throw it in there. Okay. Is grandparents also uh in this dynamic? Uh there is healthy attachment and can they make al can they also help abusing a child >> with with control or because sometimes in these families this is going back they're very imshed and if the grandparent says something it affects the child because the father is going to do what the mother is going to do what the parents want what their grandparents want. >> And how does that affect the child? a grandparent. >> Yeah. So, so I'm going to say really directly if there's a lot of exposure, I'm going to say exposure without a a a weird parent around because like even like little comments >> although right away tights you up as you know you're the troublemaker or oh here comes the whatever you know. >> Yeah. >> It plants something in a child. It's so powerful >> and they're like sponges. These childs are like >> and they look up at the grandparent and I've heard it a lot of times that the grandparents would >> kill a child with their with their words >> and you think what is a grandparent's job [snorts] >> just have to give wafers no >> hugs and wafers and tons of gifts you know that um yeah it >> but but but it's it's very important that the grandparents should know what their job is because your bird can kill somebody. >> Absolutely. I'll take it even a step further. Grandparents, again, you could talk to parents or grandparents, but when they when a grandparent, even after a child is married and has a family, there's a reason why they're calling the grand their parent to talk to speak to them, right? >> To have a relationship. what happens in that relationship is going to affect the child the next afternoon because the parents feeling either really good about themselves or not so good about themselves based on what's been going on. >> Right? >> So there's there's a yeah it's it's it's part of this whole nuclear family system, >> right? And uh that brings me to just uh maybe this is the first step but uh how important is Schulmbai is if you're in the middle of forming a healthy attachment with a child and the two don't get along they don't see eye to eye this attachment flies out of the window right there and then. So the first thing is you have to first have your ducks in line and then we can talk about attachment. Is that true? >> In a way, for sure. For sure. It's a huge bias is huge. I mean, think about we're talking about children and parenting, but think about the safety in the home, >> right? >> What it feels like >> there's arguing and bickering and stress and all that all that really heavy stuff. Children absorb that. >> Absolutely. [snorts] I think um you're when when you're able so for sure in terms of the marriage piece there's a ton to work on. You have to work on that relationship and you're going to the attachment of your own attachment style and your own stuff is going to get going to be in that relationship. But you should also know that whatever you're able to give to your child in this healthy way is setting his marriage up >> for success. Mashem, there's someone else involved also, but you're giving him the best chance and his children's and then his children's marriages and then their children. So >> it's huge. It's tremendous. >> It's huge. So it really starts way before like you're saying like really it starts before the parent as they were a child how what went on for them and it's going to affect their marriage their relationship at work their relationship with their children parenting it's you know it's every relationship and we're all about relationship >> it's a combination from all levels >> and that's this is not an easy task we're discussing over [laughter] here >> definitely not easy and I I think it's It's to bring out the implications of it, >> right? >> Can hopefully have people think about it. >> Um, shift just a little bit >> a little bit just a little uh point of view. Now, how early is a is attachment formed for little children? Which means from what age do they start to recognize that this is my parent and this is what I need. I need love. I need validation. And I need understanding the back and forth of a relationship. Adults we know. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> How young is is is a child uh educated in this subject? >> So I'm going to split it into two, but I I I'm going to go back to uterero. A lot of what we're talking about here is not a child knowing, it's a child feeling. Mhm. >> It's a felt sense that the child has that they're okay, they're safe, they're good enough, they're wanted. That goes back to uterro. You're you're with the mother and the the child senses just like they're developing in a physical way. They're they're sensing their brains forming and this is a felt sense. It's implicit. Implicit something they can't remember. It's subconscious. It's it's within their system, >> right? the child's born. Um, I'm going to say 0 to two years old is actually the most fundamental part of what we're talking about. >> Wow. >> As crazy as that sounds, >> because a parent would think at that point the child doesn't have any feelings yet, >> right? >> Because we we connect feelings with brain >> with words >> with words or developed brain. >> Yes. >> And you feel like it's a from zero to two. I mean, now we're just feeding the child and changing diapers. >> That's right. >> You're saying that from 0 to two, the child is developing feelings of being needed and wanted >> connected um in a implicit way in in almost like a >> blueprint way not in a way that he'll be able to say, >> right? But um absolutely I'm gonna say it's a huge ingredient in the attachment. It gets tricky after the age of two when they develop language and >> but if a if a if a parent is in tune with their child for those first two years of life, it's it's [snorts] absolutely um it's a game changer. I'm going to say in terms of even in terms of responsiveness um I call it mirroring. That's something that I I think is um a huge skill which we actually do very naturally with our kid with our children when they're 0 to2. So what happens when the baby's born or what happens when the baby's brought home from the hospital? Baby cries, we we rock them. We we're we're we're literally following their cue. The baby's sense is is that this is allowed to be happening and someone's there for me. >> That's actually what they feel. But if a baby's left crying, you know, used to be the thought was just let the baby cry. Don't hold the baby. Don't hold the baby cuz they're going to get used to, you know, but if if you're looking at it from this point of view, it's actually you're doing the best. Um you're helping the child develop in in the most safe, secure way. >> You're introducing the child to healthy living. >> Yeah. Yeah. And the child knows in its bones that it's okay to have needs. His needs will be responded to. So let's go back to the something happening in by bullying in school or some sort of event that of abuse or something in their bones. They know they can go to their mother or father. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> That's beautiful. >> Yeah. How um should a child that feels neglected by limited parent child you know wants to be needed wants to be uh you know heard and understood and there's nobody home. What should a child do at a time like that? The they already have already a mind you know they know already you know teenagers or whatever >> teenagers. So if a teenager is willing to listen to this, it's finding someone to attach to. >> So what you're saying is that they can find a teacher. >> Absolutely. >> Or anybody else to replace to substitute a parent for attachment >> if that's what's if that that's it. meaning it's obviously not the natural or the best I'm going to say like the most natural or the way things are supposed to happen but you can definitely feel it in that way if you have someone an in tune moa or teacher and someone that really holds on to you but and does it in a real way >> you can feel a lot >> wow so this is a message for teachers if they can spot a child who has unhealthy attachment. Uh a child who is uh not secure, they may step into the game. >> Absolutely. >> Wow. >> I'm going to say these children are spotted by abusers with a laser-like focus. >> Correct. >> They know them. >> Yeah. >> It's clear to them. They're like they know. And so yeah, if a rebby can spot them and be that kind, nurturing figure, >> wow, >> it can change a child's trajectory for sure. >> That is something. And what if a child is living in a house and they cannot make the parent proud? Whatever they do is just not working. >> So I think there's a couple asking a question that way. I think there's there's a couple there's a couple things it sounds like from like assumptions. >> So >> I don't think a a child's job is to make a parent proud. I think a parent's job is to see the child for who they are and try to cultivate anything and all their and all their abilities to bring it out. >> The way you do that is by seeing the actual child and not what the child's doing, how they're doing, or what they're doing. >> Right? >> It's not about a behavior or what they're or an action or an accomplishment that they're doing, >> right? >> Because then it becomes about the accomplishment. >> It should be about the child. This is a very important piece. It's interesting you asked it that way and I think I think it's important to speak out. The idea of praising our child or complimenting our child, it's a good thing and it could and should happen. But it needs more than that because the message and and I think the the message that we give our children when we comp when we compliment or praise something that they've done is is is in a way it's a positive type of judgment, but in a way we're judging them and we're saying you passed the test. >> Okay? And deep down the child feels this. They might not they might it's like almost like candy. Like it tastes so good when you hear it from a parent but it it doesn't last well. The more nurturing attachment connection piece is when you see the child not about what they did but you just saw the effort the child put in or the or what they've tried to do or how much they must have thought about it before they did ABNC where you're seeing the actual child's effort >> as opposed to their accomplishments. You're acknowledging the child. you're looking at the child and this gets very mixed up. And then I I believe that this message is a very powerful message to children. And what happens is is that let's fast forward fifth, sixth grade. Let's fast forward again to high school. Let's fast forward and things aren't going away and we're not accomplishing exactly what we're supposed to do. those children are much more and I'm going to say in the society it's much easier to just give up on it forget it disposable what we call like a disposable society but that's be I think if you get down to the root of it is because everything was about accomplishment being amazing always being able to do and only focused on that not focused on any effort so why should I put in the effort >> right >> you know we say I really think that that's that that should be the focus of every of of a child's childhood in in what they're in in what they put into it cuz they know they accomplished. It's almost like what do we say the first thing a child comes home with a 95 or 100? You got a 95. Oh my gosh, you got everything right. What's that message? It's so subtle. What's that message? >> You got 100. I'm proud of your 100. What? How about if a child would hear something a bit different? Wow. I remember how hard you studied on that. You went out to your friend's house late at night and you studied and remember we reviewed that one and it was on the test, right? >> You don't even have to mention the hundred. They know they got 100. They know you're proud just from the way you are. Just for the way you you're everything about you, you're giving over proudness, >> right? It's much more about looking at their effort and how much they tried and that makes a child feel seen. We're talking about seen. Um, so I think the premise to that question, the whole dynamic is a little off, but um, he should seek out someone that does see him for who he is, >> right? Because if a if a child what if a child is going through what you're describing, it feels like that he has to feed the image of the parents. That's >> right. >> You know, in toxic relationships, um this is between a spouse and a and a and a and a a husband and wife or between children, the golden child is people are jealous of the golden child because the golden child has it. Uh but in reality, the golden child works twice as hard as the regular children. >> Yeah. >> Because they know the punishment and they know the reward that is going to come. So they're always on their toes. >> It's not so easy. >> No. >> To be the golden child. >> Absolutely. And they're they're not able to be genuine with who they are. >> Correct. >> Cuz they have an image they have to keep up. And the way that sort of formulates later is that it can be hard to think that you're genuinely skilled at something or you're genuinely good at something, you know, because >> you've never that's not part of your >> Yeah. >> your blueprint >> and that's very destructive. Now let's talk about um you you mentioned trauma before uh illness in the family or even sometimes a child is ill or the parents are ill or children from divorced homes which is a huge topic. >> Yeah. >> Happens a lot lately. There's so many houses who are going through this. >> Now you're talking about children um who are coming from divorced homes. >> Yeah. What is healthy attachment over there? Because here they have their own issues to deal with that sometimes for some reason these children blame themselves when the parents divorce which I will never understand but this is part of the game and who even talks about healthy attachment when it comes attachment to who one parent if you know if it's great if both parents understand each other you know and there's no negativity spewed at each other but if there is where does attachment where's attachment Yeah. >> So, you touch upon a couple things. I think it's important to understand in a child's world, ch children are very self-centered, >> you know, they don't like sharing. They don't really get another person's perspective so easily. Like, it's hard for them. We like that develops a little later. and children it doesn't necessarily come naturally especially in a home that didn't have that and that probably was in the home they grew up in that they they didn't really see that in the parents marriage if assumably because >> of the divorce. So, um, being that they're so self-centered, they make it all about themselves. >> Even if it doesn't make any sense. Everything's about them. So, it must be something I did. It must be something that must be something that that has to do with me that this is happening. That's the first way of explaining it. There's another way to explain it. This is the attachment piece. There's nothing more scary to a child than losing their attachment. Having it and losing it. >> Wow. >> It's safer to say it's my fault than to say there's something wrong with my attachment figures. >> Wow. That is crazy stuff. Now not only that this they carry in this self um it's all about me uh into relationships later in life as well. >> Absolutely. This is all part of the attachment. This is all part of their developing this what relationships are about. >> So that is profound because >> what you're describing is a child in when they're young >> will will it's going to become about them self-centered. and for the reason of losing the attachment for for losing that security. They're petrified from that fact. And then they take the self-centeredness when they become teenagers. And then they take the self-centeredness into their new relationships, adult relationships, and it's a damn word spiral from there. >> Yeah. It's it's almost like it was it was implanted like it's in the it's it's wired. there's there's rewiring that can happen, but it's wired. But I think in terms of a parent being able to to what they could do is that obviously there's no point in blaming another spouse in front of the child. That doesn't do any good. Um but it's showing up for the child however they need to be showed up for. So, we might not think that their experience is what should be happening. Like, let's say they're just terribly upset about something and like it's not such a big deal. Like, I don't know. Like, you have a safe home and well, every other shabas you'll go like not such a big deal, right? That's invalidate validating. But it's not about so much doing a validation move. It's much more of the ability to see the experience of the child in the way that they see it >> and lean into that. Super difficult to do. >> That's the epitome of I'm going to say empathy. Okay, that's what empathy is. Empathy is the ability to believe the other person's experience without painting it of the way that you think it should be. >> Right? which is taking away so much of yourself in the picture, which is super hard. But I believe that's the core of what attachment is. The ability to look at your child who you don't even relate to like you're on up here, they're there, and they're on the floor tantruming about their doll. Their world, their doll is major. your ability. So, your ability to lean into that and really empathize and it might feel a little fake for you in the beginning, but the more you do it, the more natural it becomes. That's what gives the child the ability to feel safe, seen, heard, soothed, attached, connected. Everyone talks about loving your child. >> Yeah. >> But that's such a hard that that's so unattain like what does that mean? What does it mean? almost superficial. >> Exactly. It's a word. So I want to I'll say a just for like very quickly you learn you should love your friend like you love yourself. If you look in he doesn't translate it in the typical way you would translate a he translates it user. And every time he speak he translates aba he changes to rakim rakim can be translated as mercy but I want loosely translated I think it's empathy >> empathy like feeling putting yourself in someone else's shoes >> and showing them that you're in their shoes >> right >> think about going to be somebody >> right >> what do we do are our phones on no are we sitting like this no we're staying slouched in a way the less we talk the better. >> You just look at this person like uh what you know I I feel you. >> Yeah. And that person feels that you feel them. >> Correct. You don't have to say anything. >> That is empathy, >> right? >> And I feel like that if that goes on in a child's life, >> it's heaven. >> Not always. It's heaven on earth. Is that what you just said? >> Yeah. >> It's heaven on earth. >> And it's a it's a basic tenant for And if again, I want to say this again. If that goes on in a child's life, that child will be able to do it to his spouse, to his friends. >> Correct? >> Because he he knows what it feels like and he has a lingo and he knows he it's in his bones. >> So when we rock our little zero to twoyear-old, we're giving over empathy without words. We're giving over empathy like viscerally like we're giving it over. When a child's, let's say, from a divorced home that's really sad, sad, we're able to be in his experience for just a minute, that's very healing cuz he doesn't feel alone in it. Someone's experiencing it with him and that's profoundly impactful, like healing, um, helpful, and it's super hard. This is like the hardest thing to do. So what you're saying is that even if one parent >> from the divorced home has empathy >> Yes. >> and is is possible to have healthy attachment with your children the children will be fine. >> Listen this you never like saying things definitively. >> So what I like to say is that there's you have you have a cake and you have an ingredients in the cake. There are main main ingredients attachment nurture huge ingredient nature also big ingredient. So there's temperament of a child is going to be but part of the attachment is tuning into that temperament right not every single >> no child is the same. No child's are the same and we're not trying to make them the same. >> Right. So, um, but yeah, you it absolutely the the ability for a child to feel that way comes from when a parent is able to feel what's going on for them >> takes a lot of work. And the word is not skill cuz if it feels like a technique, it is, >> right? >> And it's not supposed to be that way. No, >> it has to be that you genuinely are feeling what's going on for them and taking out what you want out of the situation for a minute. You might want to push them in a certain direction eventually, but first you have to hit their system, their lyic system, their what's going on for them >> and calm them down. It's like sometimes think of it, you know, you think of it developmentally, so like on levels, you have a three-year-old that's terribly distraught that they that their doll broke. What do we say? Our first reaction, we'll get you another one. So many other ones. Okay, so this one's broke. We'll try to fix it. Blah blah blah. All trying to fix the problem. And it's nothing wrong with that. But developmentally, it's like a 25year-old or a 30-year-old losing their diamond ring. >> Yeah. >> What would they want to hear first? We'll get you another one. What's the big deal? You have other ones. You have fake. Like what? Like developmentally, they're on the same level. First they have to we can go there eventually. First they have to feel like whoa there's someone else in my loss. I lost something. So now for an adult it might take much longer. For a child it happens within a minute. It's not like I'm saying it it's like you know life changing but developmentally it's very very similar. It's interesting. >> So what I'm hearing from you is that if parents have no empathy for their children the children are doomed. [clears throat] or I'm going to worse sometimes empathy >> and sometimes bashing like this for this disorganized that we're talking about. >> Wow. Let me ask you a question. Why are parents struggling to be vulnerable and open and have open conversations with the with the children? Why is there a certain distance that they feel that um [clears throat] that they can't share certain you know they wouldn't there conversations that parents would not have with the children >> I think cuz that I think the question starts way earlier where was the where was the connection before you had to have this difficult conversation >> they never built on it is what you're saying >> there was never it was it's not there able to say I know this is an uncomfortable conversation but I have to have it with you that seems seems so scary because you're not in a connection or in a relationship with them and they don't trust you and in a way you don't trust their reaction. So it becomes it really starts way before and I think so many of the a lot of issues that are real real issues really the question is what was in place beforehand to help our children weather the world >> right >> the world's not an easy place to be in >> no >> it's a lot of ups and downs and we can't control that as parents as much as we want to like helicopter and help and save and push and work, you know. >> Yeah. >> Ultimately, your child has to weather the world and they need this to be able to do it. >> So, it's not about it's not so much about what's happening now. It's really about what happened before. >> Mhm. [clears throat] Yeah. That's why this is important. So the awareness >> the earlier you can start the better you know >> um >> there's always hope can someone uh fix uh a broken relationship later in teens >> thousand% means grown adults it's called repair >> repair is um sometimes more powerful than if it didn't happen. >> It's like a it's like when two people are making up and the and the bond grow strong >> way way stronger and way deeper that could happen between a parent and a teen as well. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think um there's a way to do it but it takes this piece. That means it takes the parents ability to say I'm going to listen to what you have to say and it could be so hurtful and I could have every excuse in the book every cognitive excuse. Ultimately, I believe that this is what my child's experiencing and I'm going to at least be there with them in that doesn't mean that you have to agree with them, but you're together with them. They're not alone in what they were experiencing. >> It takes a lot of courage from a parent to admit >> Yes. >> that um you know, I did what I could at that point in time. Like you said before, every parent tries their best. every parent and it takes it's I'm going to say it takes a lot I don't want to say admit I think it takes a lot for a parent >> to believe the child's experience as they're saying it >> right >> without coming in with ways to paint it >> right >> that's empathy >> right >> every time we say I I understand how you're feeling that's already not empathy because it's Hi, I understand how you're feeling >> or I get you >> so it feels right. But real empathy is completely aligning yourself for the moment with the person so they feel like they like imagine if you go to Shiva and you go I get I understand you >> right >> it's like okay you know >> but if you're showing them and so much of empathy is actually facial expression >> not so much words it's more limbic system feelings >> that brings everything down and brings the temperature Yeah. >> Wow. Amazing stuff. Um, how should a child deal with uh sibling rivalry? There are parents. >> I know why uh you know I talk to people and talking about attachment >> pinning one child against the other, >> one jealous on the other, choosing choosing him like bad vegetables. They're choosing the children who feed their image >> and they're throwing away the ones who are not. >> What kind of wreckage does that leave on a child's psyche? >> Yeah, that's what it is. That this is this is this is the attachment is damages. Damaging. That means the most important relationship in my life is not showing up. In fact, it's damaging. So, what does that say about other relationships? Can I trust anyone ever in the world? can never trust anyone. You know, these type of >> these children are set up for failure. >> Yeah, children are resilient and they have ways to cope with it. So, I'm going to say is that they sometimes you'll see someone that really is like amazing and they came from such an interesting background and how's that up add up, >> right? >> That's great. Usually they're doing their own work, but a lot of times they're coping mechanisms and it comes with a package. That means someone that you know there can be a lot of pent up anger and frustration within them and they're channeling it in the right way. That's great. >> But then if it's not able to be channeled like when you see a lot of adults with terrible anger. >> Yeah. >> Terrible anger. Like really the driver of that is a frustrated feeling. I'm not getting your needs met ever for the longest time. >> Losing your trust in the parents and then losing the trust in the universe. They're losing the trust in any >> every relationship, any person. And it's very it's very hard to live with someone like that. >> It's very hard to do business with someone like that. >> It has its perks. That means they're probably won't fall into something bad or a bad deal because they're so cautious. >> They Yeah. the everybody is guilty. >> Mhm. Mhm. Yeah. It's really hard to trust people. >> Yeah. >> They lose their trust and to build back trust uh you know, welcome to the you know >> therapy world. >> Yeah. Now what if parents and and you know parents parents are parents and we're human beings and sometimes we lose it. >> Sometimes we feel that we need to yell. the parents who are not physical, you know, >> yeah, >> are yelling. Yeah. >> And uh all these other things. >> Um >> this is when something is going wrong and for the right reasons. You know, we had a hard day and everything is going south, >> right? >> And uh is there a time when a parent can yell or is there a time for for time to lose it >> and it's okay? [gasps] >> I think there's a difference between losing it and and yelling. That's first of all, um, usually when someone's losing it, it's not because someone told them it's okay to lose it. They just lost it. There's no way to control it. But, >> but yelling, here's what I what I think. Think of it as like a 7030 or like 65 35 type of balance. You scream, you get frustrated, you don't have space for your child. put it into the 30% basket and that's totally fine. Consider that the golden standard, >> right? >> We're human, >> right? >> In no way is should anyone come and say you have to do this 100% of the time. That's not healthy for a child either cuz he has to have some sort of up and down a little bit also within a safe relationship, >> right? So, I would say call it 7030. And anytime something goes bad or anytime something's um you don't you're not proud about the way you made your child feel or the way you acted, throw it into the 30 basket and you're in the and you're in the golden standard, >> right? There's always a repair that can happen which can take the whatever you put into the 30 and pump up your whole day into 150 when you come over to them. And some people aren't comfortable to apologize to your child. So what I've come up with is the idea that you apologize that this has happened. You don't have to personally apologize if you don't feel like >> I think you can, but there are people that will don't can't or don't feel comfortable. So this is like a step under that. You apologize that this happened and you're really sorry that this happened, >> you know, like it it had to happen because I lost it. But you know what? >> I really I'm really sad that that it happened, >> right? >> And that shows so much to a child because it's not saying I'm sorry, you know, like it >> it has to come with the meaning and the and the >> How about ignoring it and thinking that it's going to go away? >> Yeah. The child holds on to it. Um, but again, throw it into the 30 and you're in the golden stand. >> You're okay. >> Yeah. >> Because what you just did is you you showed your child that you're a human being. >> You're not Superman. >> Absolutely. >> And he's also the child is also going to experience >> Yeah. >> You know, he also has tantrums and also, you know, so you're human. >> You're actually communicating with your child human behavior. >> But you know what? It's not abuse and it's and you you grab yourself >> and just teaches your child that you know your child will actually look up to it rather than um >> Yeah. And I think there's there's a there is a place in every in every I'm going to say day situation where you could let your children know about your thought process and that you're not Superman, >> right? like you're stuck in traffic and you're upset and you feel like it's just worth it to just turn around because we're not going to get to the anyways >> and that's how you're feeling because that's probably how that feeling, >> right? >> And then you say, >> but you know what? Let's go. Let you let them know the process and that actually is so impactful because you're not telling them how to think. You're saying it about yourself and they by osmosis take it in. >> Right? Let's move over to schools. We're talking about parenting and part of a child's life is the school. A huge part of a child's life is the school. Now, is it healthy to have an attachment to a teacher? You know, sometimes you have these children who have a crush on their teacher. >> Um, is it healthy to have an attachment to friends? Is it healthy to have an attachment in the school environment? >> Absolutely. For sure. I think the unhealthy attachment patterns that you find in the school >> is because of the attachment pattern that is not going on at home or the opposite of it where they're so seeking to be validated, so seeking to be seen. So they'll do crazy things, they'll do stuff >> and like when you jump to school and you think about behaviors. So, you know, they came out with a diagnosis, it's odd, opposition defined >> disorder. >> And if you look at the description, it's a child, the way I like what I'm hearing, it's a child who's who's who's so discouraged. >> Yeah. Like's opposing authority. >> All his needs are are are so unmet that the only way he can do it is by pushing back at authority. and then he gets some sort of adrenaline, some sort of >> rush that he's he'll feel better. It's like his drug. So, so of course it's doing that for him. But like if you're going to start looking at that and not really what the motor and the the vehicle for what why it's happening, you know, you might get a child who's going to be a little bit better on medication in school. >> Mhm. >> Let's say for let's say this type of thing. But are you hitting the core issue? >> Right. You're saying they're misdiagnosed with all these names sometimes, but really what's missing is something from the house. >> Yeah. >> Now, I had a Makan over here who, a big Makan for a lot of years was telling me that, you know, how do schools handle bullying? >> Mhm. >> And he says bullying has to do with the child's home, >> where the child comes from. it was someone is bullying in that house and that's why he comes to school and he bull I mean it's not a school issue >> so I think it happens in the school so [laughter] so absolutely I think that if you want to get down to the car to the to the to the bottom line >> two things it's how children respond to the bully because I think parents can help children respond to bullies in a certain way and help them understand exactly like you're saying this bully is in so much pain that the only way to get rid of it is by that adrenaline rush and that dopamine rush of making you get angry or making you feel down >> and so explaining this to our children and when we hear of a bully we can we can punish the bully and try to control him but I think there's a lot of that has to happen but there's also a lot of understanding of like what's going on for this child what's going on for him why is he doing this. It's not a natural thing to do. There's something when a child misbehaves. I'm saying this in home. I'm saying this in school, saying this in camp. When there's misbehavior from the child, that's not the problem, >> right? >> The problem is is that there's the child's not is feeling discouraged and and um feeling like something's off and they're their needs are not being met, cold, the batteries not being full, whatever, and they need to fill it with something else. and that's why they're doing it. Um, so whose issue is that? You're right. Getting down to the to the, you know, >> right? >> It's going to be the the home. >> Yeah. Uh, what's your feeling about schools? Um, their emotional support that they're giving the children versus academics. Do they is there a bigger percent? Do you want would you like to see more uh emphasis put on emotional connection and feelings than curriculum? >> So I don't think it's a steer. >> I think it's both >> and each one on the higher standard and one doesn't take away from the other. >> Right? There's little we can do to teach our children how to emotionally regulate and how to be better. You know, they could like fill out a worksheet of how you're supposed to behave. Push comes to shove, they're in the yard, that worksheet is in one ear out there. It's really about, I think, the ability to be mocked with what's going on, to have the child system calm down, look at a system, see what's going on, calm a system through the empathy piece, and then put down the rules. Like, for sure, this is there's rules. You're in school. Of course, that's what happens. And of course, teaching has to happen. And has to happen. And that's where we we send our children to for that's that's that's so much of it. But I think I think it's like that thing before or that there's so much on a Reby's plate nowadays that I feel so uncomfortable even saying maybe something else like add another thing. There's so much that they have. But it's like taking that child that they saw got hurt by another child or maybe by the reby's own words and going over to them at the schoolyard and repairing it in the way that we talked about >> that you're not you're doing that's what they're going to remember from fifth grade. They don't remember anything else. >> What are we do you remember fifth grade? Do you remember exactly what you learned? We need to learn. We need to develop our brains and all that stuff. But that will be something there. I know myself I remember there was one specific like you know you remember that rebby >> right >> and that gives you that feeling. >> What message do you have for a teacher a rebby or a rasha of how to be sensitive and use empathy in the classroom so they can spot a child who really needs it that they can change that kid's life forever. M yeah. So just one one way is to you see a child that something's going on and and um taking taking them over maybe privately and just saying like hi is everything okay. Now when we say that I see that there's something wrong or something must be bothering you. That's not empathy. You're already projecting what you're thinking. That's already in the next step. Let's back up for a second. >> We have to sort of take a deep breath and like back up. Let's lean in to what's happening for that to that child. What's going on in his world? Like, is everything okay? And if a child is shut down and sad, in a way, he needs someone that can feel that sadness. So, you're not going to be like, "Hey, Yankee, what's going on?" It's going to be a little bit sad like when you go into a Shiva, >> right? It's good. Not to that extent, but you're the energy you're going to give over is I get you. >> I get you. >> I feel you. >> Here's the thing. When a child feels felt, funny way of saying it, >> that's what takes them out of whatever at least brings them out of the >> shutdown or the fight mode and puts them into their higher brain, prefrontal cortex, and they can talk about it and they can process it. >> So, I think it's I think it's empathy. And there's so it's very tricky, but I've actually come up with a way to do it and like a um just like little pointers so as to help the person feel like you get them. >> Wow. And this is saving a person's life. >> It could. It could. Cuz when if something more use the word sinister is going on or something else, they'll be faster to come over to you as a rebby >> cuz they felt so safe in that moment when you just gave them even just a little bit of space, you know, and they might on the surface look like they're pushing you away, but that could also be a test. Is he going to respect me? >> Yeah. >> Cuz I've never been respected my whole life. Every time I say go away, they push back at me and they make me whatever. here. It's like, okay, so I want you to come over to me. I'm here. You know, and you give them that. There's a lot of ways to play it and read into what's going on. You know, they might like shrug their shoulders, whatever. That's >> if no one was safe until now, >> you're not just from one conversation going to it's a process. >> Yeah. What about since we're on this subject um >> sharing with the child let's say about the when you talk to a child this language right the surrender language and you look at the world you know trying to control everything but we can't um there is it actually shows the child a different side of you that also models to the child when they'll go out in the world that it's not the end of the world and everything doesn't have to be the way you want. How important is to add this into parenting? >> Wow, I can't believe you just asked me that question because I've been working on this thought. I think absolutely it should be talked about. But here's the thing. We all talk about it. >> We have to feel it. The way it's so it's really interesting. The way I think you can actually give over to your child the sense of Hashem, the sense of amuna is through this empathy. Because what the child as a zero to twoyear-old, as a three or fouryear-old, when they get hit by that empathy and they get hit by that mirroring or what, however you're you're making them feel felt, you're not touching them, but they're feeling felt. >> Correct? And what that's doing is it's programming their ability to feel like they could feel felt by something or someone or something that they don't see or they can't touch or grasp. >> Wow. It's powerful >> extremely. And I think these are the tents. This is the base how if you we all want our children to be connected. So doing this actually I think is the blueprint and the inoculation for anything that might come against it because their their systems wired. We all think Hashem is here. Hashem is there. Hashem is surely every >> but the ability to feel that >> right >> is when they know my father's here all the time. My mother's here all the time. Not sitting and hovering over but when I need them >> they're here. >> I calm down with their presence. What you're saying is that you're emulating a physically >> and you're teaching this child when this child is newborn >> that there is a higher power. There is somebody to rely on when you'll need and you share then later you share this with the child and you tell I'm relying on this too >> connects >> and and this is a it's a huge foundation for zero from zero to two you start then >> this is called preventive parenting >> yeah this is this is um huge you know it's very interesting um the paras speaks about and he says something that had a profound impact on me [snorts] and he he he says a very it's a long thing but he he basically tightes up what is and he says what it is is >> the the ability to be dakashem >> yeah but the vas in English is what is it yearning clinging what's the word of the >> attachment >> attachment you call the veus attachment >> absolutely >> the lavka boy is the goal Yeah, >> that's what that's why we are here >> and all the when a child can see all the mitzvah as a way to continue on with whatever connection he's yearning for and and that makes the mitzvah so much different, >> right? >> But [clears throat] how can you put someone that's a disconnected human being to every human being and say now connect to something else, >> right? >> How do you do that? But if you can in put it inborn in them from the beginning, >> you're acting like the an agent of emulation from Hashem to us >> experientially. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's >> very powerful stuff. >> Very powerful stuff. And I think that um the child you put the child on a foundation of uh such security. >> Yeah. to know that there is Hashem and your father is also relying on Hashem. Your Superman in your eyes is also relying on Hashem. >> I guess I would ask you the question, what do we all want from our kids? Like, you know, as a goal longterm, we have like short-term goals, but like what's our long-term goal of for our children? And I think it's two things. I think it's to be connected. So that means to us and to the >> it's also to be resilient >> in this world we live in >> to be resilient we get knocked down we get pushed back and all that comes from this piece of empathy and connection. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> So the veus the t of the veus is attachment. It makes sense. Unbelievable stuff. Yeah. >> All I can say is thank you. [sighs and gasps] >> Thank you. >> Thank you not just for the tools that you gave. Um thank you for sharing a lens >> that we need to look at as parents and the way we look at ourselves and the way we look at our children. >> And that is a a a beautiful awareness and a beautiful lesson. And my to you is you should have in everything you do. >> Amen. especially on the holy mission that you're doing that you're helping families heal. >> Amen. >> I want to thank you for coming. Thank you.