Breaking the Cycle of Autopilot Living - Moe Srour

I'm very secure that I am the craziest person in the room. The reason why people trust me with their dark is because I know my dark. You know, some people want to come to me every week and a half. Some people want to come to me once a month. Some people will come to me when it hurts. As a man, as a grown man, as somebody who's got to do what he's got to do, you're going to need to know how to keep on going. Your your wife does not have to accept you in all the ways that your mother didn't. The issue is not the issue. My issue with the issue is the issue. What do you mean touch my hand on my heart when I'm feeling that little sadness? It's like it's awkward. It's unfamiliar. >> What does letting go mean? >> Okay, today on the struggle podcast, we're welcoming Mosha. His mission is wrapped inside one word. I'm here. That's that sums up Mosha. He's not running. He's not hiding. He's not numbing. It's about the present. It's about being alive and ready. Um Mosha is the director of Project Hinani. Project Hineni is an organization dedicated uh to guiding people back to themselves, finding themselves uh through breath work without any noise, with no ego, only presence. Mashim, welcome to the struggle. >> Wow. The struggle is real. >> The struggle is real. The struggle is real. Thank you so much for coming in. >> Thank you for having me. Thank you for having me. Um, who wrote like you wrote that like whoa, just hearing that, receiving that, taking that apart is off. >> But, uh, thank you. That was that was beautiful to hear. >> Excellent. Thank you. Um, so before we start, um, explain a little bit what project 1090 is, what are you doing, and how people benefit from your organization. So project is the name of the website but um because something and I smile at it because it really mammishes a project uh if I could call it anything it's the it's the current iteration or the current incarnation of the work that I do. I spent uh years on my own journey whether it's through therapy then then getting into men's work and men's workshops with call the chauffear then opening uh another organization after call the chauffear called journey to home >> you were involved with the chauffeur organization >> in crown heights years ago yeah >> that was very controversial in crown heights at that time no >> sure yes >> so so you were one of the founders >> no I wasn't one of the founders uh the the founders were the founders. I came in about 12 years into the organization and then I was staffing chauffeur retreats in Israel. That's where I started. I had my first workshop in Israel. Did a couple of workshops there. Then when I moved back um we really got busy in terms of doing workshops and then at a certain point we got into this schnit into this niche market called uh Crown Heights and then it started really uh gaining traction and because I was there and there was more facilitators there. We were able to do a bunch of workshops and we got pretty busy and we also got busy in in Crown Heights. So, so I was there I remember and uh >> so from there Hanini was born. >> Yeah, give or take a decade >> in a good couple of years. But um yeah, so Heni is the current incarnation and it's I think an arrival in a large way in terms of the learning, the the processing, the the coming back to self, the getting out of my own way and how can I how can I really distill that which I've learned and that which keeps on coming up wherever you go and feed these topics and give over these sugas or topics in a really accessible way, whether it's vulnerability, acceptance, trust, letting go and surrender and really allowing a process to unfold where I get to come back to myself whether I'm 10 years in or 20 years in or uh wherever I am in my own life. And so that's one. And the second one is really coming back to love >> right >> now. This is groups that you're putting together. You do this in in groups. >> So the heini workshops are groups. It's uh these are circles. These are workshops. We wind up going offsite uh for a good couple of days and there's check-ins, there's working. It's and so and there's also breath work groups that I do around in Lakewood Brooklyn and Muny. There's one-on-one clients that come for the life coaching, the breath work, the family constellation work, the seeing the things I don't normally get to see or say. um to come and start getting out of my own way in certain ways. You know, there's this term that people use in terms of I want to do the work. I want to do the work. I had a guy here um wants to do the work. Like, okay, what the hell does that mean? Like, okay, it's a great way. Oh, you got to do the work. Really, I think it's doing the work is I'm at A and I want to get to B, >> right? >> Or I want to feel and something tells me that when I move to this from A to B, I'm going to feel better. I'm going to be more happy or joyful or successful, fill in the blank, but we're on this path of going from A to B. And somehow this this mindset means that to get from A to B is going to take a certain amount of work. Uh so what does doing the work mean? And what process would that entail? And sometimes somebody would hold the space for that, a coach, a RV, a facilitator, uh a podcast to kind of let the process unfold to go from A to B. So how big are these groups usually the circles? >> It depends on the season. I've done groups with 10 participants. I've done groups with you know 27 participants. Right now it's trending anywhere from 15 to 20. Uh and then the staff is quite sizable. Um but I think in Journey to Home we we ran one with I guess 22 participants and 20 like 17 staff. So it was like a room of about 35 40 people doing breath work. So it's it's so winds up being pretty uh pretty expansive, pretty cool, but also the smaller ones wind up being really deeply intimate where it's like you know you got 10 people there for three and a half days and or 10 participants there for three and a half days. So it's like and all of them are really focused >> and does it take for the people uh a time to open up? So let's say if you have a three-day workshop, how's the first day versus the third day? >> So I tend so there's two ways of looking at workshops. All right. Generally there's two ways is there's the workshops that are the initiatory experience where it's like the intro it's like you come and everybody's like I don't know what I'm doing here and then then by the time then they do a little bit of a process to open by the time the second day comes along we're doing the deep inner child stuff and there's that big cathartic opening and there's something on the third day to wrap it up maybe a breath work maybe something to like I actually got something those are really peak experiences those are initiatory uh workshops to get people into a groove of looking at something that they haven't looked before. The workshops I run are really designed for people that are in process or have like know that there is such thing as process where it's where I'm at A and I want to get to B. So it's like they have a certain level of Isis where it's like okay there's such thing as a feeling a story or something the thought that I have about myself a mask that I'm wearing a persona and whatever degree or sometimes something's hurting I really wanted to not hurt as much anymore or I want to step in powerfully in my business or with my relationship with my wife. So some so the projects I run specifically are more for the people that already realize that there's they're in process and they want to like they want to do something else and they want to do something more. So that's where um that's where Hini kind of come comes in to spiral up maybe a little bit um in a more cohesive holistic way. >> And what's your technique um to get people to trust in those circles? You know these are people who never joined the circle before someone is listening and said you know what I like this I know that is there is some power in a to get together and uh share and it's a you got to be very vulnerable and how do you get there? >> So the truth is is is again it's the difference between the initiatory experience and what I'm doing. Um, and when I'm in initiatory experience, yeah, sometimes it's like you're you're giving people an opening that they haven't had before. So, it's almost it's weird and it's different and it's like, what do you mean touch my hand on my heart when I'm feeling that little sadness? It's like it's awkward. It's unfamiliar. The workshops I run, it's it's it's really tistic. At the end of the day, we're talking about touching vulnerability. So, that vulnerability by definition is going to show up wherever. So you have vulnerability period, >> right? >> All right. It's just the mites of the creation. So it's like what would it be like to acknowledge that vulnerability >> doesn't mean it has to be the vulner vulnerabiliest vulnerability that you got. It doesn't have to be the deepest darkest uh dankst thing. Just >> just and it could be gratitude for my daughter. Um something that's pinching me for my wife, but something that's sh to everybody. And I'm really addressing the the common humanity that's a part of everybody. There's nothing that I I do that's secret. It's very very open. It is sacred. But um again cuz I have the gift, thank God, of perspective. Like I remember the call to show for initiatory experiences. I remember what Kabad had what to say. I remember what people still today have what to say. And again, I'm not sitting here as a samurai getting ready to do. But like I know and I know. So I really created a space from that. Thank God. Thank God. What runs the space is the what runs the space is the belief that like that is the the field that that we're all stepping into. >> It's all based on on first. >> Yes. It's it's yes. The answer to the question is yes. So because cuz at the end of the day that's what I was always looking for. Like if you go back like where like we're all looking to come home we're all looking to really connect to to something bigger than like wait a second I am a part of it one uh the multiplicity going back to the singularity if you will >> so whatever we do to be malabish that process then isn't height >> right now let me ask you something if you would be open to share your personal story where you're coming from and what's your story when did you become from a feeler you became a healer Uh, look, there was Thank you. It's it's a story in terms of like I don't know where to start, but if I had to start anywhere, it would be living life away from God is by definition traumatic. All right. It's not mine. It's not mine. And I got it from Joey Rosenfeld who who gets it from Ishbitz and Ravich and and you know the whole thing living this human life can is traumatic. So whether it's what happened to me when I was two, what happened to me when I was seven, what happened to me when I was 12 happens to be you know I come from my own version of crazy but it was really a process of of searching and trying to find myself continuously looking for that love safety and belonging that every little boy and little every little girl wants and sometimes finding it in the wrong places sometimes convincing myself that I didn't deserve that or I wasn't worthy of that and getting lost in the spirals going up and going down. Uh but always for me very consistently looking for a god that existed. I grew up sardi so it's like god really wasn't that this mean god in the sky. It was you know he was more of a loving god in the sky. So you know you know it is what it is but you know he loves us. >> Where did you grow up in which area? >> Brooklyn. >> In Brooklyn. >> In Brooklyn. Midwood. Went to the standard sparty schools. >> Uh my father was a balu when I was four. So he came back with the, you know, that Israeli um black hat type of movement from, you know, Rabbi again to to um like you know that that trend in the '9s which was which which is something so endearing and honestly something so pure that comes with it where there's a certain amount of sha that that that comes with. So, at what age did you start connecting to to to Hashem really understanding what a muna is? >> What is a muna? >> That is a good question. >> I Yeah, I I'm I tried to pinpoint it like where where did they start? My parents gave me this idea that there is a Hashem and then it was almost like I love my parents and I love Hashem. And when did that wind up getting developed? uh was it before or after my my grandfather who I'm named after died when I was four like I can't tell you there but at a certain point it just started developing and then kept on developing at an rapid rate and I probably learned what the even the concept of atomic around six or seven I thought all rabbis were the holiest thing in the world um and it was just like there's something to aspire to there's something about being spiritual now you know It's it's almost like I imagine and please tell me that in the world there's there's a concept of being idol something there's a concept of being hilig or a good zisa boy that's always connected and kadisha and all that. >> So we had our I had my own version of that. It's not that. It's very much not that because it's not it's not Yiddishl, but it's like we're singing the B of and in in um on anyway. >> Yeah. >> Like that made it in. So, so um it was it was always there just thank God it just kept on getting developed over and over and also getting lost in the process. >> So, >> so that was your journey. I'm just curious. Is there something that you're working on yourself? A personal thing that you know a challenge that you have in your life right now that >> which one where can we start? >> Um so there's thank god I'm married. So like that is always going to be a constant process of of the second I get too comfortable is when things get interesting. So, I learned that I got to really know how to rest in an authentic sense of comfort there and be in relationship and practice authenticity and practice honesty. And I am not going to be able to micromanage the way my wife looks at me. And my wife, chances are my wife doesn't look at me half as shattered as the way I look at myself. >> So, that's something that's definitely in process. >> So, let me let me stop let me stop let me stop your idea. >> She's going to love this. >> You mentioned um the word shattered. I look at myself shattered. Um, where do you feel that in your body? So when I notice myself as shattered, I I it's it's really a thought. So I feel it there. Um, then I notice I want to say I notice something in my chest, but it's like okay, it's a nice fancy way to say it. It's like if I had to like dive into it and drop down, I'm sure there's grief and it's almost like I want to be seen a certain way or I didn't know how to be seen a certain way and there's this little boy that wants love, safety, and belonging. Um, and wants to be loved for who he is and it's like and doesn't necessarily allow him to himself to. So, I feel it in my in my forehead and like it could drop down from my throat into into my sternum and my chest. Mhm. Now what happens to your breath when you feel that when when you have those moments? >> Um what happens? It tightens. It slows. It constricts and it gets really shallow. >> Do you breathe heavy when when when you feel you know when when you don't have that good feeling that you would want to have that you're yearning for? >> I would say shallow. I wouldn't say heavy. That's my experience of it. Um, heavy is more like pressure. I was just got hit by a truck type of thing. Or heavy means like something heavy is in the room and I can't even like take that breath and pick my head up. But this is just more the shallow uh nebby type of breath. Now, now the question is when you have that when you have that feeling that you don't like, >> do you run away from it? >> Like at work, in therapy? >> What do you do uh with with that? >> So sometimes, so it depends. It depends. I'm very human, so sometimes I get stuck in it for as long as I get stuck in it. Uh, sometimes I I feed into it and sometimes I I pick myself up and sometimes I wait for a way to spirit I don't want to even say spiritually bypass it or lose myself in somewhere else. You know, there's there's a process of of like five affirmations five times a day. I could stop the negative thought pattern. Like I I don't have to get into my own sense of codependency of being liked or being wanting it to be a certain way or my own narcissism rather. and I can move to a better state or I could get lost in the douff or I could get lost in something else or I could just focus on what I'm doing. So my ability to pivot and shift has grown over the years and my acknowledgement that my pain needs boundaries and I could get stuck in it if I want to and I have a vict my victim mode and my anxieties though definitely happens definitely happens but it's less often and for less amount of time it's less often and for less amount of time so but thank god I'm still Yeah. Yeah. So, so what do you do with that sha with that thought that that thought of shattered? You know, you I feel shattered and and how do you overcome it? >> It's the next thing. It's the next positive thing. You know, we're we're Jew, you know, it's I'm not trying to espouse, but it's like thank God like there's always going to be something else and there's always going to be something in front of me. So, I was out with my daughter on Sunday. All right. I was out with my daughter on Sunday. We went to uh this play place. She was having a golly amazing time. Then of course, thank God, she fell. She hurt herself in the way that she only she could hurt herself by jumping into a bullpin. She was really, really sad and crying. She like, "Okay, I want to go home. I want to go home. I want to go home." Where did we go? Instead, we went to pizza. Right. Somewhere between leaving the place and getting pizza, like I get an email that triggers me and it's like, wait a second, what I'm doing uh is irrelevant. Not not even a workshop email. Like this is a work work email. It's like ah something went through or something that I really really worked on almost like felt like it meant nothing. I thought that what I would did meant nothing and all of a sudden boom I was back to 10 years ago. At a certain point, the kid is going is in front of me and she wants her pizza and she wants her French fries, >> right? >> So, it's like I could be in the email and look at her and look at her and look at the email and look at her and look at the email and look at the French fries, eat the French fries, eat five French fries by the time the French fries are done and I got to go take her home. And then I go walk into my house and then is my wife with, you know, with the other baby and lunch and what are we doing now? And then do I get to go to the gym or not? Like, thank God I I keep moving. I I really really keep moving. The issue is is when people get stuck and I think people like getting stuck because it's almost comfortable like now that I'm stuck, I have car lunch to be where I am and this pity party has no expiration date. Every pity party has an expiration date. What I do on the workshop is I give everybody cart blanch. You could be the biggest nebulous in the in the world and I'm not going to try and stop you. Be the victim. Go ahead. I mean, it's going to wind up working itself out in a place like this because because it's the place where it stinks. So, it's like I'm going to keep on eating and eating it and eating and eating until I have put the fork down. >> Yeah. But when you say that uh you're busy, you're you're moving from one thing to the other. Is that distraction? >> That's life. No, but you use distraction to let's say you have your daughter in front of you and you're middle of eating and that email comes in and then you have to go back. So are you dealing with the problem or you're distracting yourself? >> So it's a good question. It's a good question. You if you put it to a person like me who has his laboratory that you know the the lights don't close whether I like it or not. Uh so I'm going to kind of process it. I'm going to see it. I'm going to see it. So, is the goal to feel better and it never bother me again or I deal with every trigger or is my goal to be in relationship with my daughter and and notice the triggers as they come and not identify myself with the trigger? >> So, so to the question is how distracting is the email? Not am I distracting myself from the from the hurt of the email. Um because something that that I think is not taught is something that actually I got from chauffear uh was that at the end of the day we're going to have choice. Not only we're going to have choice but we're going to have choice based off of value system. It's not only that the way he would put it is that it's not only that Adam was able to name the animals and this one's a giraffe and this one's an elephant and that's a tiger but it's like there is a where it's like okay this is there's relative value to my freedom. I could make choices, but I could also make choices based off of relative value. Freedom. Uh, yeah. No, it's not free, but it matters, >> right? >> It matters. So, as long as there's some I I'm very clear on what's what really matters. I think people are something I I spoke spoke about with with with a good friend of mine in the community. It's like you take the the 19-year-olds, the 18 the the 21 year olds, the 20 four year olds, the guys who like and already do should I do Iaska or should I, you know, or am I do I like my weed? Do I not like my They're very much looking for what's real or what's and the way I could conceptualize that for this conversation, for this moment is like, well, what matters really what matters, >> right? >> What matters. And and that's that's something that's cultivated. That's something that's taught. That's something that's learned. That's something that's that's worked out like what what matters to me, what matters in this world, not just what the system fed me. So like, thank like, thank God I have I have wonderful standing anchors in front of me that remind me like what matters. And yes, do I forget? Do I get triggered by that email? Absolutely. and I will and and so real to a point where I'm we've spent 5 minutes already talking about it, >> right? >> Um but in fairness, it happened on Sunday and now we're on Thursday. So, let's see where I am by next Sunday, >> right? >> But let me ask you, let me go back for a second what you said before. Uh you mentioned it in passing that you want to be loved, you want to be seen and you're always um chasing that and you're saying that your wife um you're accepting that your wife will never see you in that light. So the question is is that um something in you? Is it something that you need to accept? Is it codependency? Why are we running? And why do we need the love? Why can't we get it from an inner environment? You're working on the fact that your wife will not accept. And this is something that you're dealing with it. You're dealing with every day. Um where is that lack? Where is that void that that we all we all want love? We all want connection. We all want validation. And we all know that if you're looking for it from an outer environment, that is poison. But we always want it. >> So just to clarify, um us as children. >> Yeah. >> Everybody, myself included, >> we need love, safety, and belonging. Just to make it through life, there are three basic streams of of need. We need love. We need that >> define love, safety, and belonging. I wanted all three of them. Love would be somebody taking me as a part of themselves, taking care of me, taking responsibility over me, especially when I'm a child. Uh cultivating inside of me a sense of respect and really knowing me. The way Eric from and the art of loving defines it is there's four elements to love. There's care, the maternal care, there's the paternal responsibility, somebody take a and think about it if you're the tati, somebody shelter. >> Yeah. Um respect, which is more of a fraternal thing. respect to you as a child, >> boundaries, >> correct? >> Like a sug type of thing, a sense of respect and dignity >> and uh knowing then think about the knowing between between lovers. So real love is is is an experience as an art and so yes every kid is going to need that care, responsibility, respect and knowing just a part of their makeup. >> That's love. >> All right, that's love. Belonging is they need to feel like they are a part of something to to even like the child that grows up in the jungle is a part of the jungle, >> right? >> A child would want to be part of the home. >> Yes. Part of >> they want to feel part of a home. >> Part of a home, part of a family, part of a kabura, part of a team, >> uh part of the class, part of the friends, you know, that's why school is such an uh you know, we want that belonging, >> right? >> Like there's like like we we have this need >> need need for >> right >> and and safety. >> Yeah. >> And if if I'm if if I have a gum if I have a m and one of those things like that's going to inform the experience >> that's a void. >> All right. So now growing up I have my own skewed way of of seeing myself whether it's how I was looking for a sense of belonging or whether how I was looking for love or how I thought I was lovable or and sometimes it definitely wasn't safe for me to feel loved or to belong. Uh that's just my experience of growing up. >> But this is every child has that as missing because you see parents do their best love dka missing. We're not here blaming. We're talking about just the experience of the child where it's like the parents could be the most unbelievable parents in the world. If the there's a bullying class, there's a bullying class. I could have the most stellar father imaginable. Like after 7 years old, the amount of uh influence uh that the parents have on the child, you know, winds up decreasing dramatically. The world raises the child. School is going to raise a child. His classroom. No. Mommy did everything. Yes. and everything else. So, so yes, parents did did amazing and but the child will still have their experience now as they grow up and as they try to mature and be uh providers themselves that those same doubts are going to be reflected at them in their relationships. So there's nothing that's going to be a closer mirror than my relationship with my wife. So, if I don't like myself, I might wait be waiting for my wife to like me in the ways that I don't like myself. Or if I um or maybe I'm convinced that she's going to reject me in the same way I've rejected myself. So, we're going to wind up lining her up to love me in the way that I want to and I uh egoically am waiting or codependently waiting to be loved. And the truth is all that that's really just an experience of I'm waiting for a mommy, you know, a mommy to hold me in that way that she accepts me for everything. You're a grown man. All right. Your your wife does not have to accept you in all the ways that your mother didn't. She just doesn't have to. She doesn't have she has to accept you as a person. Respect. She has to respect you as a per she doesn't have to. But like, you know, that's the opportunity. But like men specifically in the communities where this is not taught wind up walking into marriage waiting for to replay the maternal drama of mommy's here to to cook, clean, serve and and change my diapers and the hell if she doesn't want to. So it's like and so it's up to her to enjoy uh my smell whenever I whenever I do it. And it's just not the case. So, it's like part of the I guess humbling process of becoming a man is to realize that part of relationship is is you're dealing with with another person. You're dealing with another person and and it's not her job to like you in the ways that you don't like yourself. She may she may >> she may like you even more. She may see you in the ways that you have yet to see yourself, right? >> You know, she sees you when when when when you turn your back and you don't get to always see your back. I guess to really uh sharpen what we were saying before, it's not that I'm chasing for my wife to accept me in the it's like there's a there's a part of my inner child, there's a part of my inner child that's really that really wants to be accepted. And when he's scared that he's not going to be accepted or when he's scared or he's sad of the times that he was hurt and he really wants to be heard and he really wants to be held, is his wife a person that he gets to share that vulnerably with with her? Is it her job to heal it? No. But it's going to be, I think, the greatest opportunity for healing. you know, healing, we could talk about what that means, but coming home and bringing tikun and bringing a sense of wholeness to the parts that are throbbing is when I'm I wind up being witnessed in relationship. You were we were wounded in relationships. So, we're only going to be healed or bring healing in when I bring it back into relationship. It's lava, the person that hurt me, but it's going to be in relationship. I want little boys or little bo girls who experienced being hurt in love, safety, and belonging are going to need to find that again and love, safety, and belonging. I don't stop needing it just because it's not provided. It just doesn't become okay, this this I don't stop wanting that. I don't stop needing that. So, it's until that winds up being worked with, worked through or fleshed out and developed. Again, these are skill sets. These are muscles. or I have to go to the gym to do the things I and lift the things that I haven't been able to do and that's where the real magic happens and yeah it's going to happen in relationship that's why marriage is so hard but there's also so much fruits that wind up coming that's why kids are amazing you know the says that the kids are going to show you the panmas of the parent that's you know it's clear that that's what it is >> it's like >> so it's like like if and everybody thinks that that they have the oh you know if I'm upset then I see it in my kids well yeah >> so it's like I'm I'm for for me generally I'm I'm talking to the people that like like I'm I'm in this jo I'm I'm I'm in this jog and I'm in this crawl I'm I'm I'm I'm here with me so you're so you here is do or so that's where I'm usually uh working with I get passionate >> so so How does uh one rewire their brain u from that that you were saying about um love, safety and belonging? If in their own version the way they saw it that was missing this is the way they felt how does one work on that to you know it all boils down to self-esteem. So, you know, there's >> where it's like I create things with my mind, with my speech, and with my actions. And chances are, if I'm living life from a dysfunctional way of thinking, it's going to uh infect or impact my So, it's like what would it be like to think different thoughts or speak in a different way and do different things? And it starts with choice. It starts with making different choices. is it starts with actually having the conversations I haven't had before. Uh doing the different things. You know, self-esteem is it's a nice buzzword, but it's also a continuum. It's also something that I wind up having after I've done the things that I'm not doing. So, so yeah, it's developing that relationship with myself. It's having those hard conversations with the parts of me that probably I haven't had a, you know, a heartto-he heart with in a minute. Um, it's maybe it's treating myself with a little bit more grace, a little bit more kindness. Years ago, uh, there was a healer that I worked with that she looked at me, she looked me up and down, she was like, "You and your body are not friends. Like, you don't like each other." Like, you know, you guys are like two roommates at dorm room and that that you don't like each other. And she couldn't be even more right. So, she's the one that told me while you're driving like just go like this, like, "Hello, buddy. Hello, buddy. Hello, buddy." I'm It's It's It's different. It's not. It's like, wait, what? Is that too weird? And yeah, it's weird. It's like, what do you mean? You're sitting there talking to yourself? Yeah. Yeah. But it's like, >> get to know your body. >> Get to know my body. Get to get to know myself. Feel what you feel. What? What? What? Feel what it feels like. Enjoy the taste of the coffee. Enjoy the taste of the coffee. No. Well, like, do I like folders? Do I like Maxwell House? No. No. I'm an espresso guy. Like, no. I'm really bougie. I like I like to grind my my beans before I before I eat them. Do I actually feel the sensation of something that's filling on my arm? Do I there's an experience there? There's a presence there. So it's like before it's like how do I change my thinking first? Am I experiencing my thinking as thinking? Am I experiencing my body where it is? Is there something tight here? >> What you do now is a lot of uh breath work. Yeah. He says, "Now let me ask you now traditionally what people do is when they have anxiety and u and they run to a therapist, they want to talk. Um what would you say uh if a person does breath work? Uh what what does it enhance as far as what you don't get the traditional getting stuff off your chest and your mind and talking and talking and crying and celebrating, you know?" >> So it's a good question. I think there's definitely a point to telling the story. Bradshaw who's the father of of inner child work was very clear tell the story. Some people need to tell the story. Does that mean they have to tell the story to everybody? Does that mean everybody needs to hear the last detail? But there's also the experience of the story, >> right? So breath work is a great way to bypass the critical factor and kind of access the the energetic body around the story, the physical sensations throughout the story, whether it's trauma about the story. And then again, that we're just talking about the things that I would go to a therapist with, >> right? And it just in it'll it'll bring in my experience of it at least is it's going to bring it to an even more of a holographic level than than a normal linear conversation with somebody. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> And you you've seen progress. You've seen people like um you know are saying that wow I mean after a breath work and they come out of there and they say the clarity that they got. You've you've seen a lot of those. So I so I have seen people that really that breath work is great to be a mile marker. It's it's a great experience. It's a phenomenal phenomenal phenomenal tool and at the end of the day it's a tool. So it's like at I'm going to need to make the decisions afterwards, right? >> So it's like I'm going to need to choose the choices I need to >> make good choices. >> It could definitely show me the landscape. >> Correct. Now how long is this like a process or if a person says okay I'll go three times a year then six times or I'll go every month one time I mean what's the process >> so what I'm saying is kind of blasphemous to a lot of people but I think of myself sometimes as a chiropractor >> where it's like certain people when something's hurting I particularly I don't go to the chiropractor unless I'm dying which is not >> right >> particularly good in self-care and whatnot but you know some people want to come to me every week and a half some people want to come to me once a month some people will come to me when it hurts. So, it's like I'm not here to uh you know push anybody through a process. Happens to be if somebody wants to go from somebody texted me last week, I want to go from B to Z, which is a you know, a very nice way to phrase something. >> So, I'm like, okay, fine. if you really want to go from B to Z. I'm not saying I'm the one to help you, but I'm definitely one to uh I guess give you a couple of questions uh some question things maybe Socratically in terms of what are you looking for and what's been holding you back and what are you waiting for somebody like me to give you that you don't already have yourself. >> So, but let me ask you a funny question. while you do the breathing. Okay. And you know the process and whatever there's fast and short and and uh whatever. Are you using your brain while you're breathing? Like are you thinking or or is it like when you have to think about a yellow uh ball or don't think? Stop that mind. No think. What do you tell the people? >> So the brutal honest truth is to everybody in the room just like you started this. Oh he does things with no ego. The brutal honest truth is there's always going to be ego. There's always going to be some level of thinking. Your mind, thank God, is working. Your cognitive mind is working. Your conscious mind is working. >> Can you ever stop? >> Ideally, you would want to take a step back >> where you're not subjected to it. It's always there and you could smile to it and it could be running the show. But sometimes like when I'm when I'm doing my thing or when I'm just watching the process, it's it's how much do I have to insert myself into the process or do I not need to insert myself into the process? The reason why I love breath work to be in like the Hini workshops or just as a general model, it's like the person is going to need to do it. I can't breathe for him or her. So it's almost like at the end of the day, it takes me out of their thing. There's nothing that I'm going to do that's that's more woowoo than the other breath work facility. No, but he did it this way and oh, he did it that way. Thank God. Everybody is their own sh. Yes, everybody is their own sh especially in breath work. So if they're not going to come to me, my encouragement is for them to go to somewhere else. So it's not about like is it my mind versus somebody else's mind? Is it me taking a step back versus somebody else taking a step back? Theazak is go breathe yourself through your own process to get to where you want to go. You want to do it with me, cool. you want to do with him. Awesome. I thank God I've been doing it long enough to know that it winds up getting done. >> Wow. It's amazing. It's amazing. >> Again, it's a nice flex, but it's like it's it's >> right, >> right? But can you show us just for 30 seconds because we're breathing now. You're breathing. I'm breathing. Everyone's walking around and breathing. We out breathing when we we we can't exist. But there is a difference. People want to know if you can give show us at 30 30 seconds what a small breathing means. What is a healthy is it say fast is it give us like a little so a person should know what what are they getting into when you say breathing >> so there's a dian in New City that said said it so succinctly the reason why people do breath work is to realize that they want to breathe or realize that they like breathing and I heard that so deep where there's a part of me that puts on fillin there's a part not a part but like I put on fillin or I wash my hands I kiss my daughter good And then there's a part of me that watches that that there's a valitional choice to do that. The fact that I'm there there's >> conscious about it. You can't >> I'm consciously I'm consciously exercising that muscle and somebody's going be like so >> no but that's 100% >> but that's very well put because it's like you're you're you have an helicopter view of yourself breathing. >> Correct. >> It's not like it just comes. So it's like I'm choosing that next breath and what if I could consciously choose that next breath or if I could consciously choose to be vulnerable with my wife and it's not move that that's just going to happen because I'm I'm here she's married to me so vulnerability it's it's it's a choice it's a courageous choice taka >> it's a courageous choice to to to breathe so to actually breathe into the tightness into the ma the and not only that you know because he asked for something more concrete. If you're anything like me, like you breathe in, there's a certain limit. There's a certain peak of the breath. What if I increase that peak just maybe 3 or 5%. >> Push it past the general threshold. >> How do you do that? >> Just taking that extra 3 5%. It's no rocket science, but just an a little bit of a deeper breath. No, just take a deep breath. Yeah. Even deeper breath than you would normally take if you're normally taking a deep a deep breath. So, so to go that just a little bit of an extra mile and even then if I take that that's when the tingles start. >> Wow. >> That's when I and it's like wait a second because I'm choosing it. I'm experiencing it. And if I'm experiencing it, what else can I experience? And what other openness can unfold like you've been in this gig for a minute. >> Yeah. >> So, you've seen uh breath work have its and now it's trending and it's vogue. All right. along with you know psychedelics and along with >> all the other >> you know all the others is is it helpful is it not am I >> I mean people uh try everything you know people want to live their lives you know this this is something that's natural that Hashem gave us and you know if this is something that you can use u then why not if a person is walking around with anxiety and is upset and and tried everything and if you don't live your life to the fullest maybe it's a it's it's a it's a place to look into what's your experience with the people coming out of your circles and groups like I want it to succeed right >> so there is a certain gap between like codependently wanting to be identified by the work that I'm putting out and like wanting it to be good >> and then there's there's that place of you know is it and then there's you a sweet spot. It was like, well, are you going to accept it or not? Because if it's good, it's good, >> right? >> So, be in in the reality of the goodness of the moment. So, it's like I'm somewhere I'm I'm always in that um self-absorption. >> I'm trying to ideas. I like ideas and I like to hear uh especially if a person says, "I have something that can help another person." And tell me if I'm correct. What's your opinion? I I just wonder what your opinion is that it's way safer than psychedelics because psychedelics you're uh you know if you do it right but uh you're it's not for everyone and you're playing around with your brain here um you're taking something that's pretty much safe. Am I correct? >> There's less side effects when it comes to doing something say breath work than something like psychedelics >> psychedelics which was which not everybody's cut out for. You have to have the real professionals. You have to do it in the right time and and and have the the intention has to be right. >> Okay. I know a lot. >> I'm I'm I'm with you. I'm with you. >> Yeah. So, let me ask you. You spend a lot of time guiding other people um through life with breath. You know, you help them. >> Yeah. For some people that have never done breath work, just like they've never felt what it feels like to just tune into what's tight, what's hurting. I'm working with a 17-year-old. It's a wholeish and he's 17 so it's like malleable. So he's fresh and it's amazing or it's like it's so new to feel myself to feel the experience of being in relationship to myself. So >> what you're saying is tell me if I heard it correctly. Um we have we have choice and if a person is stuck in a certain place a good way to start is with the concept of you have a choice to work on these three steps. How are you thinking? What are you saying? And what are you doing? Attitude and how you do it. And that is a step. I mean, this is a first step. Beautiful concept for a person to to internalize that when you're stuck at a certain place, you have the you have that choice. You can do it and start questioning your thoughts, your attitude, and what are you doing about it. >> Absolutely. you brought it even into a further level in terms of actually having the discipline to question it. I think that's where people get really really comfortable where it's like I don't want to question my thinking >> because it's a fact. They they take they look at it as this is it. It's a fact. I have to >> it's not it's not only that it's a fact. Yes, it's that it's a fact but it's also my fact right. >> It's also my fact. I got to take bless over my thinking and I have identified myself with my thinking where it's like you're not going to come tell me something else. Who are you to tell me something else? >> Yeah. But acceptance if a person says you know what I'm I I I'm surrendering. I want to accept my facts. I'm not going to question if you don't like where you are. You should question yourself. >> So ironically when it comes to acceptance Friday morning on the workshop we talk all about acceptance. Thursday is vulnerability and vulnerability is really like it's something that could get poked and something that could there's a possibility of getting hurt. Vulnerability. Um Friday morning we deal with acceptance. >> Let's let's explore acceptance. What does that mean? >> So So really what does it mean? So one of the things that I do is everybody gets a turn. What does acceptance mean? Like whole group of men and and it's and it's gorgeous. It's gorgeous having a bunch of grown men actually um talk about like well what what does acceptance mean with my wife with work with this and that. So everybody throws their own answer and it gets developed and we all write it down. We all like ah okay what does Oxford say? What does Webster say? So the Webster definition is really to receive something as if it is enough. to receive something as adequate. To accept something is to receive something as adequate. And if you think about it, when I'm accepted into a school, really what they're telling me is like I'm included and something is a part of me. That there's an end consciousness. There's an A and a B. And if A accepts B, that mean A that means A and B can exist in the same space. There's a place of acceptance without trying to change, without even trying to approve. Just like can we be in the same place of acceptance but I'm not poking you you're not poking me just we're here wait we're here. So to receive something that is as if it is enough as it is without changing it. So the vulnerability is going to be the acknowledgement of something that let's just say pinches acceptance is can I accept myself with that vulnerability with experiencing the vulnerability. What we also talk about is that there's also a higher degree of consciousness when it comes to acceptance. There's an I that's accepting. It's not just I'm thinking, but it's like I'm accepting that I'm thinking that thought or I accept that I'm feeling that feeling or I accept that I want that that want. Or it could also be that I accept that that happened. So we unpack acceptance. Then there's a process we do before the breath work. The process that we do before the breath work is is a Byron Katy process where and this is how we got got into it cuz you were saying it's really about challenging the thinking. What if I'm what if I could actually step into a place where the thought that I'm thinking can be turned around, can be challenged, can be poked. What is my life with that thought? What is my life without that thought? And what if I turn that thought around? So, uh I don't believe myself becomes I do believe in myself or no, everybody doesn't believe in themselves or everybody believes in me. >> But let me cut in for a second. Um, you know, I've heard that and probably you heard that also that um it's just a feeling or it's just a thought. >> Um, don't take it personal like don't get overtaken by it because it's just like a bubble. Some people call it bubble thoughts and pop the bubbles. But why is it just a thought? It is a serious thing. It was a heavy feeling. >> Absolutely. >> I feel it. >> Says feeling. Why are you talking about your feelings? You can hear people say let it go. I mean it's a feeling. It's not real. It's not you. But for some people it is real. >> Absolutely. So I think there's there's what to be said about being a Bucky in both. Meaning there's the way it was given over is I got to be an expert in you know Bucky Bara Bucky Bashov. I have to be a Bucky in ascending and a Bucky in descending. I'm going to need to know how to keep going. In life, as a man, as a grown man, as somebody who's got to do what he's got to do, you're going to need to know how to keep on going. There is a sense of trust that we talked about Friday afternoon where it's like, yes, there's a muscle of self that I'm able to come back to and and keep on trucking. And I got to know, I got to acknowledge what's there. And if what's pinching me needs acknowledgement, it needs a massage. It needs love, safety, and belonging. and just going and not giving them that love, safety, and belonging um perpetuating a certain cycle then then there's something to look at. >> So what you're saying is that let's say you have a thought or you have a feeling you have again the choice to channel that thought in a different direction. The thought is here but the power lies when you control your thoughts. I don't like the word control my thoughts because every time I try to control my thoughts I failed. >> I've failed miserably. But it's more like I I one could practice a practice of learning to detach themselves from that thought of not of disidentifying themselves from that thought for letting go is sometimes it's like letting go of a balloon and sometimes it's like letting go of a rock and sometimes I'm holding on so tight that letting go is so scary I don't know what it is to let go of that thought. So there is a balance when you say acceptance. You don't need to accept that thought, >> the negative thought. >> I mean, if I'm going to accept that thought, I'm I could also accept the opposite. I could accept uh the inverse. I could accept that thought about other people. Meaning, there's no there's no shortage of of thoughts. And just because that thought is the thought that's taking up um you know real estate in my mind, it's there's also a function of creating more real estate in my mind and maybe I could just shrink the thought and maybe leave room for another. So it's like it doesn't always have to be the only thought that's running that's running the show. >> Yeah. Now let me ask you as an adult when you're already an adult um and that safety that what we're talking about where those safety come in um you know relationship that's good what flashes is respect where it's like safety like okay I'm six like thank god I'm 6'5 and like I'm I feel good but like >> physical safety >> emotional safety >> so so emotional and mental safety is there is there a sense of respect and even if there is disrespect is there almost a self-awareness in that other person where it's like they see themselves it's when there is a sense of disrespect or disregard where I smell and it could be tolerated I could see it and sometimes just because they're doing what they're But um again this um safety as an adult man I'm thinking about it out loud. It's like I don't I don't usually look for it in somebody else. I don't look for it personally. I don't look for it to somebody else. I learn how to be be that with myself for myself and for others and not really mortgage that to somebody else. So >> you you may think that safety means I have my circle of friends, I have my family, I have my uh >> So there's between comfort and safety. >> There's mama between comfort and safety. >> Let's elaborate. >> Let's elaborate. Some I remember years ago people would say especially when they because you know I was doing shadow work and looking at issues and you know what's my issue with the issue and what's hurting and what's pinching. Oh, I don't feel safe. I'm like, well, do you do not feel safe or do you not feel comfortable? I'm not telling you whether you're safe or not. I'm asking you just a simple question of definitions. Is it not safe or is that not comfortable? So, yes, I found a sense of comfort and safety, frankly, with with certain friend groups in the past, and that kept me comfortable. So, and then one one outrows it. Um, but it's also there's what to be said as an adult male to having especially at work having a team having people that a shared vision having a kabura having being a part of a shul where it's like we're all looking at the same thing whether it's shi or whether it's uh what there's a certain collective vision so in that sense there's uh I find that sense of safety in the collective >> not safe means means danger is comfort family is comfort I mean safety safety is from Hashem you feel safe when when you know that >> I feel taken care of it's like you know at the end of the day soft like do I feel insecure absolutely but I won't but you know there's a gap between insecure and safety safety I think really like danger and there's something uh wrong it's like it's I feel anxiety I feel insecure but I can't tell you there are times I feel like unsafe >> but can you say let's say if there is emotional uh uh emotional violence can you uh uh attach the word I don't feel safe >> again for if you're asking me personally in my in my life >> I remember I I thank God I've been at it for a minute so when somebody wants to turn a table and kind of do facilitate the facilitator in a type of way so it's like there's certain There's parts of my mind that are always online. So it's like I see what people want to do and like when they turn the tables it's like okay >> I see you. I see you. It's almost sometimes there's a curiosity. Sometimes it almost feels insulting. I can't tell you that there is a time where I felt unsafe. I'm very secure that I am the craziest person in the room. >> I'm very secure that I'm the darkest guy in the room. So it's like maybe it's it's ego and probably is but it's like I'm and yeah there's also like a bit of a New Yorker in that and so and I relish it and I enjoy it and I lick my teeth with it and people deep down know I think can smell that about me. So >> why do you choose the words crazy? >> I think that's just a diplomatic way of saying it. I think it's just a diplomatic way of saying it. It's like the reason why people trust me with their dark is because I know my dark. >> So when you're in the circle, are you part of it? Are you sharing it with the people or you're the facilitator sitting on a on a >> So I've been staff long enough to know I'm always a participant. >> Um I like I've sat in circles and I know I there's there's noender aside from from the minion, >> right? So, and I know what it's like to do it and want to be seen. I know what I'm doing and thinking I'm doing God's work and this is Mashiach consciousness and yada yada yada. And I'm thinking and I knew like I remember from literally 12 years ago he had people in a circle saying there's nothing more conscious than what's happening here and Simka the head of chauffeur just knocked that down. Like he flicked that off. He's like I'm nobody to say that. happens to be we're doing something that I find really really cool and I also know like a dozen other people that do really really really cool things. So I hear you. Um I want to touch on something we discussed about respect. >> Mhm. >> Why is respect so important in relationships? dis I was actually dealing with this before and there is a concept of you know what how about you ignore the disrespect why you standing up for yourself why is this becoming why is respect because you mentioned it a lot of times from the beginning in relationships with the wife and with the child the child also has to be respected one of the three steps was why is respect the foundation of relationships and humankind. So very deep very deep um there's there's that no not actually when he speaks uh before and he speaks about how at the end of the day there is such thing as >> there's such thing as at the end of the day am I willing to look at this person and see that there's there's cavote here there's a sense of respect there's something of value here >> yeah and where there's going to be certain boundaries that will be honored and respected. Um, now does does that mean that I get to label um anything that I deem disrespectful as disrespect? I'm like, I could do that and I could I could I could treat it as there there's a school where it's like you have boundaries. You are, you me. Um, most boundaries are from the inside out, not from the outside in, >> right? So it's like I could I could have my boundaries. Whether another person chooses to respect or not respect their boundaries is up to them. But like I just have my boundaries. Um and and it's to to actually touch on the the weight acknowledge the weight of another person. They are here and they are taking up mass and they have theirs and I have mine. It's I think it's a den of respect. I think it's a den of of valuing a sense of boundaries. you have your uh your suitcase. I have my suitcase and I'm not going through your belongings and you're not going through mine. That that that type of thing. I remember the example I used to give, especially when giving this over is I remember I I got married uh third. I'm the oldest of four, but I got married third. So, when I was taking over my brother's room because I wanted an office, uh he had his stuff there. Now, did I know what's in there because I went through it a thousand times? Absolutely. uh did I did I necessarily need his permission to go through his stuff? >> The respectful thing to do be would be to ask >> and I asked him >> I asked him just I respect where you're at and I respect where I'm at. Now that doesn't mean that we have to talk. That doesn't mean we have to be buddy buddy. Um but it's probably going to mean that that um my respect is not going to be contingent on your ability to respect me or not. I'm going to show up with a sense of of of honoring that you got yours and I got mine and you do you and I'll do me. >> Um, as far as taking things personal, everybody is like, uh, don't take things personal. Ego, it's this. Let's get this out of the way. Let's get that out of the way. How easy? It's easier said than done. So there's a there's a wonderful book a little bit of woo woo for my taste but the first rule is don't take anything personally called the four agreements and the first one is >> yeah don't take >> don't take anything personally that book >> I did too and I listened to it and I and I'm like >> Sean I actually thought that thought today like if I was going to sit with you I'm like that's probably going to to show up on the carousel >> but taking things personally we take things personally I think as soon as I'm willing to acknowledge reality that I take things personally is the next is giving me the best opportunity to depersonalize something. >> Right? So that's the you >> avoid for me and for a lot of people I that I've watched over the years is how do I depersonalize it? How do I make the me just a bit just a little bit smaller? Yeah. But where's the line that we were talking about disrespect? Which means if someone's disrespecting you in business or in personal life or whatever the case is, you can there's a fine line where you can say, you know what, I'm not going to take this personally. I'm just going to let it slide. >> True. So it depends where am I in relationship with this person. >> I think if if this is a person like okay like he's he's very secure in his box in my head like I'm I'm I'm going to go to him for with A, B, and C. D probably not. F definitely not. So it's like why? Because you know this is how he is and this is how he relates to me then that's where he is and that's how he relates to me. Uh if it's a person that's a little bit more um closer to home. Is this a person that I could talk with? Is this a person wants to come to a workshop? Uh hey Mo, how are you? I want I I want my I I have this guy. I think it would be perfect. One of the things I would ask somebody is is he somebody that that that you could talk with, >> you know, I don't even know how to say it, but is is there a is there is there somebody that you can connect with so that if I'm feeling disrespect I but if there is something that we need to connect on >> a vulnerability a place of a place to accept a place to land that there's somebody to talk to and some people yes and some people no >> right >> and with real relationships like a father a mother a sibling a wife that needs to be worked on that needs to be developed that needs that gets broken that gets poked that gets you know renovated and torn down and rebuilt again. Right. So, >> so let's say in the work that you're doing, so let's say if there's a person who has the ability of making another person feel small now that person does what he does. The question is if the person who gets affected or can say these words, he makes me feel small. Does that lie on the person or is it again that person is pushing boundaries where you're not supposed to? >> So I guess the mantra of chauffear was the issue is not the issue. My issue with the issue is the issue. The issue is not the issue. My issue with the issue is the issue. So there's what to be said that when he did that I felt angry. All right. When that data happened I thought that I'm being disrespected. I felt angry, >> which is my issue with the issue. It could be >> that there is an issue to deal with with this person. Hey, you can't talk to me that way. Hey, when you said that, like that was not cool. >> Yeah. >> So, it's like there's there there's there's my experience and then there's the data and then there's a relationship or there's the business relationships. But until I've actually like gleaned on what my issue with the issue is with the co-orker, with the VP, with the executive, with the buyer, then I have no business in terms of addressing the relationship with the person, whether it's because they're going to be defensive and not receptive, whether it's because they're going to be able to hear it or not. And it could be, it could be once I clarify my own issue, I'll be able to see the issue in a different light. It could very well be that the guy is disrespectful, >> right? So that person who has an issue with the issue um how does breath work help him um come to a place where he shouldn't have an issue with the issue. M so there's practicing the pause you know there's an old friend of mine Yasuben Shushan he would say if he would say if he would say one thing for the world to hear it would be better to be calm so sometimes it's better to be calm better to not be reactive just assuming that I'm sitting on the trigger and I'm not reactive >> right >> all right so that's al like let's just let's just be with the space >> all right do I does and that does that need a breath does that need a massage does that do I need to acknowledge the vulnerability and accept myself with that vulnerability and come to trust myself again and letting go and then occupying a place of surrender. Does that mean I take a breath into it? Does that mean I just take a breath and as I'm letting go uh I let go of that thing? I can do like 101 things around that one trigger not because I got 101 things but there is 101 things you could do to just let go and move on to the next moment. So how breath work? Breath work is creating space for the things I don't normally allow myself to create space for. >> So let's say if you have anger, you let it go with breath, you learn, you make some exercises and you calm yourself down. >> Okay? >> And you come to a place where acceptance it is what it So, so there there's there's a woman by the name of Judith Carval who's this Kabad psychotherapist who's like years like this like if you have anybody like yeah she's she's good. She said at the end of the day old work is grief work where we're always on this cycle of of of grief. So the five stages of grief it's like first there's going to be the denial the denial of the experience then there's going to be the anger over the experience. there's going to be the bargaining of oh it should have it be this way it should be that way there's the depression and the sadness until you reach the ac that sense of acceptance. So it could be that when they reach me for breath work like I'm pissed I want to this I want to put his head through the wall like okay like again I'm the craziest guy in the room. His piss doesn't scare me because I'm the craziest guy in the room. >> So so we'll breathe for that. And we'll hold space for that again cuz his anger, his crying, his fury, his volcano, him wanting to to blah blah blink blink like that is just the you could think about it. The anger needs to go somewhere. Once the anger goes somewhere, once he once there's a part of his psyche that feels like they've reestablished the boundary that's been broken, then they could move back move down to towards the next stage of grief, whether it's the sadness or the tears or like how can I let that happen or why does this always happen or what do I need to learn from that place? What's really really interesting is that you'll even have father and sons, right? Because I've breathed fathers and I breathed sons not always together, sometimes apart, sometimes with years apart. They both wind up saying the same thing. I just breathed the sun and he starts talking about how he has this volcano that he's breathing into. The one other guy who said volcano in the last 5 years was this guy's father. So it's like cool. Now did I think that there's listening? It's just listening and being able to be a witness to it. >> What does letting go mean? You teach that in one of the this is a a loaded word let go. >> To let go is to acknowledge that I've been holding on. To let go is to allow to really allow. To take a step back that I'm not the one in control. >> Let go means that um you're questioning your truth. that it does not have to be the way you envisioned it. That's actually beautifully said. That's beautifully beautifully said. To let go is to acknowledge that the way I wanted it is not the way it is. And that there's there's a gap. There's a stress between the ruts and the mut how I wanted it to be and how it is and it's not going to always match. And that dissonance is going to create an experience whatever that experience is. And the way I I would say it is sometimes there's this this picture frame. I want things to fit in the picture frame and think about whether it's the community or whether it's the whether it's the whether it's I it needs to fit that where even branching out of that becomes part of that. >> Right. >> All right. Just look around. So letting go is really learning how to let go of the borders of that picture frame to let go of that misg in Hebrew and just to and to really allow to really just like that which I wanted it didn't happen. Does it suck? Absolutely. Is there grief? Most likely. >> Are there people that were hurt that have an impact? the decisions need to be made that wound up um creating shifts in families and businesses and and home and relationships. Yes. Yes. Letting go does not mean everything uh you know goes back together. Letting go means letting go. >> Yeah. Is it surrender? Does that does that >> So there's a there's a dillig a skip between letting go and surrender. M >> um surrender is what do I let go into? >> Like you surrender to Hashem. Is that what it is? >> So for me it's setting letting it it's surrendering to Hashem where surrendering into the unknown. I think the the intention of the workshop is really to become really friendly with the unknown. There is no bigger unknown other than God. >> Right? So it's like chances are my yes is yes that that which I want is going to come in from the unknown because if it was from the known it likely would have happened already. So it's like how can I step further into the unknown that whatever is going to happen wherever I'm going to go it's going to be in into that state into that place of surrender. So I could let go and then I could go somewhere else. So surrender is really that place after the letting go. Letting go into what? The let go and let God if you will. So, and and it's in the surrender, you know, cuz I I got to plug it like that's where you'll find that Heni. That's where you're going to find here I am. It's that surrender into the unknown dapa in the places that you didn't want to look whether it's saying by the bush where it's like what are you choosing me for? I'm not in the mood. Like give leave me to my sheep. I don't even talk well. and or you take um no it's like I'm going to I'm being called to sacrifice that which I really wanted that which I told I was going to have the entire world and I held him and then I'm being asked to go completely against my nature and do that forget God forget God like just to really step out of you know out of the comfort zone yes it takes a surrender And you know and I you know I I had a hard part with you know even Asaf says heni even Asaf says hi meaning the unknown is not just for the fromid it's not just for the fromid that wears his talis over his head and you know wears in the closet it's just it's it's it's for everybody every part of you is you're exists they exist or can I and and there are parts of me that want to say hi also And and I guess I as the adult am I willing to listen? Am I willing to hold that experience for that? >> I want to talk about spirituality >> a lot. >> You were mentioned before Richard Meyer. Are you uh are you connected to his uh teachings? Um where are you on a minute? Uh years ago I heard this talk from Ari Benushan and he said enough with the amuna speeches. Write your own amuna speech. >> Wow. And I heard that I heard that like thank God I was ravichay and I don't need to say more than thank god that sadic is real and and where I find myself in his tyra is is a place to be a sense of truth of self and specifically with how it's mishtal shell from him from the writings from the gillion that was like I got a whole stack and like that was my that was my chabas of taking that apart Everything I got I only know because of the likes of of Joey Rosenfeld which is you know my therapist in so many ways on all these >> tremendous >> in all these drives home. So it's like I love you. I miss you. I I can't wait to see you. And it's never it's never a part. Spirituality is not a part. It's like an encompassing experience for me and those who know like I there are world not because I'm higher than these are just the words that I'm going to use. I I had to accept about myself that I live in multiple worlds at the same time all the time. Right? There's the feeling part of myself which is very strong. There's the mental part of myself which is always moving. There's a physical part of myself. There's my spiritual self. There's also, you know, my noa and kinot and covered that are always in play. Yes. It's always in play. So, it's like I'm I'm I'm feeling all of it and I experience all of it. And then do I how do I allow myself to be in relationship to all to as much of it as possible and then develop it and sharpen it. And today's kaput is to is is tomorrow's other kiput. So it's like can I be here and then let it go and just with my with my daughter just be just be daddy and let it all go and be in the moment. So it's it's it's it's a it's a wonderful eb and flow. I will tell you it's a lot easier doing it married with kids. I was single for a minute >> and a lot of these skill sets were sharpened while I was single. >> So, you know, being where I'm at now is hella better. >> Definitely worth it. Definitely recommend. And it takes work. But, um, >> you became a giver, a provider. >> Thank God. Thank God. Like, thank God. And all that it is is a gift. All that is is a gift. Uh, and I and I would love to tell you I I I think it's just because of like the blue walls and the microphones that I could say it like this because you know I'm going to drive home and go back to ordinary life. But thank God thank God there's moments of where it's a kiss from Hashem and there's it's like you have that hug and it's not it's not just because you learn X and it's not just because you D three times a day. I remember there was a friend of mine, a really really good friend of mine, a brother in arms if you will, who who's like now he's serving medicine and and there were times I would sit with him and uh in those long nights and those dark nights of the soul and there there's brief moments where we were able to look at each other and as we looked at each other we knew and we knew that like there's a there's a there's a denu there's a I got here in order to experience Hashem's oneness and that is from Hashem and sometimes Sometimes you go an entire night, entire entire long night just for that brief second and for that second it becomes worth it. So thank God like learning how to do that during the day and learning how to trust that that's going to happen during the night is is is an avoid is avoided in a process you know >> is his buddas part of your life. >> Is his buddas proper part of my life? I find it in the way I find it. I can't tell you I'm going around in the field and saying it because I'm not, you know, but I love to be. It's a dark in my in my in my in my head that's a madrega that I haven't sharpened as much. So I want to do it more. Uh I find it in learning. I find it in a sagas. I find it in my drives. Sometimes I just have to say it and I say it and I say it. I say it. Believe it or not, I remember uh I was this is this is a takeaway. I I remember I was working with with AI and Chad JPT and just like saying something out and then the phone kicked like I would say things out and then it would transcribe it. So I guess it would it would just serve as a wonderful mirror for me and then it just stopped and then all of a sudden I kept on going and I had no idea when it stopped. I was like you're speaking and the one person that the one thing that you're waiting to listen to you is not you. And so it's like when I when that collapse happened uh there there was a freedom that came a freedom of expression. So >> and you you noticed that you know how to do it. >> I noticed that that I could have the experience of of that to to have to say like ah that's what I'm doing. I'm always in relationship with Hashem and Hashem is always in relationship with me. So it's like am I more in relationship now that I'm talking versus something else? But yeah to be in relationship >> which are you connected to? What is what is it? Where is it? Which one is is giving you a fire? >> Which swarm is giving me a fire? You're asking for like really confidential information. You're really asking for confidential information. But um thank God. Currently growing up it was Ramal. It was all over the and then even in my 20s later in my 20s and it sharpened as I have found uh wonderful kusas who like I got to be really mamic in it and and understand understood and developed and even um so that's definitely a process shin to hold what you're looking for. So, um, that's definitely there. And I'm a good sparty. So, you know, Zar all the way. >> Yeah, it's shabas. >> Wow. >> Shabas to to at least understand understand that there's a medicine there that's that's for us for the taking. >> What What is your feeling about listening to your gut? A person this is the the >> the second brain. Is that part of your um you know what you implement is if your gut tells you something you because the body talks. >> The body most definitely talks. Um the body most definitely talks. I So I I have not I I didn't grow up with really learning how to trust my gut. >> I learned how to be impuls I grew up being impulsive. I be I grew up being compulsive. So trusting my gut usually did not leave me right because my my gut was not was always like kind of skewed. Um but I refined a relationship to a sense of intuition, a sense of inner guidance, an inner compass, an inner like uhhuh like a sense if you will. It's I don't know if that sense is necessarily in my gut. It's experienced sometimes in my gut but it's it's it's like a refined I would call it more of a refined intuition in a sense. So um so yeah gut is a wonderful a wonderful barometer but I I I can't tell you like that is source of truth. Do you find in all the people that you are dealing with and the relationships that you had um that people who do belong, we're talking about belonging, people who belong to communities and to uh cahillas or whatever that they feel lonely in those big uh uh conglomerates. >> What do you think? Uh it's it's interesting because we were talking about belonging that a person this is one of the three things that a person needs and sometimes I see people who are in major major communities they feel alone. So I I think there's there's losing myself to the role where if you take you know and listen I've I have so much gratitude and respect for anything that any does and it's but what I noticed years ago is that people wind up getting lost in the role or forgetting themselves in the role almost like become disidentified to a certain role. So it's like if all I am is just another head in the crowd or another hat or another person that's within the system, another cog in the wheel. Yes, I'm another cog in the wheel, but I'm a very very important cog in the wheel. I'm an integral part of the wheel. And sometimes that winds up be becoming forgotten. There's there's a reason why there there is such thing that that whatever this person is there's a part of God inside of him that's that's re that's yearning to reveal itself. So >> you're saying that every should feel a sense of belonging. >> It should feel I think is to to be the >> correct it's there. You just have to >> it's it's there. >> Wow. It's there. it's there and it's and it's up to the mashia to to to give him uh the tools the belief the the the even that it's like no there's there's there's a belief in self there's there's a state of of it's like okay fine there's like there's me and there's God and it's okay and it's okay it really is okay that's coming back to that sense of surrender where not only am is there vulnerability not only can I accept myself with the vulnerability and trust myself and let go of whatever of a doubt, but I could surrender that it's okay being where I'm at. >> I love it. >> I know. It's You do it long enough. You get to be like, you got to have that voice. >> Yeah. >> Mojim, >> that's it. We're done. >> I want to thank you for joining us today. >> You taught us to stop running away from from ourselves. Um, you taught us, Hinani, we're here. You gave us permission to slow down and be present. I want to thank you for sharing and I want to thank you for coming. I really appreciate it. >> Thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun. >> It was awesome. Thank you. of things.