The Story of JOB "Iyuv" Why Bad things Happen to Good People? Rabbi Yitzchak Breitowitz # 111

hi everybody welcome here to tonight's amazing program amazing sheer and uh with zoya that's close to everything brad what's here from eric's stroll so nice and early in the morning seeking to come join us we appreciate it um again tonight's share share one hundred and eleven with coach monachem berenfeld and uh again i always thought every week thank everybody for all the people that uh promote this program it's a self-promoted program people tell people about it they posted on their what's up statuses the email to the friends and um shem it's it's worked from growing it's getting better and better and we really appreciate that i'm just every week we get together here at doc and janine speak through things and to really get clarity get physic this is the last year before tish above so let's really uh three weeks that's the nine days let's really get some clarity again if anybody wants to join together every sunday the flyers you could what's happening personally at 848.525.0066 again 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coach open it up what are we doing here tonight let's go thank you very much i want to welcome everyone for coming tonight for hashem we're doing tonight number 111 it's a lot of seated ishmael and i want to thank you robbie bradowicz for giving us some of your time and i know i got a lot of feedback that people love the questions and answers that you do and i miss sherman in the email will send out the podcast where they can listen more but tonight we are in the three weeks and it's a few days before tish above a time to slow down and to reflect to see where we are now whether you're net israel or in america but we're all in goddess and this is a time that many sometimes when you think about it you can come up with certain questions what's going on along golos in berghlal you know in general and sometimes you think about your own life which people go through a lot of times they go through soros painful things a lot of challenges and uh we could have questions so tonight's topic why bad things happen to righteous people the truth is we need to redefine first of all how do we know if we're righteous or the questions that you have how do we know what's righteous and what is bad things so we could talk about it but the truth is most of us we live in this world we try to figure things out the way we see it we want to understand the way our eyes see it with the way we understand and sometimes it's hard we have questions and in our eyes righteous people go through so many tsaras and we could sometimes think what does hashem want what's going on and this is really a fundamental question in in yiddish guides in just to know sometimes people think i'm doing the right thing and look what's happening so the question is really this question martial asked hashem already and it's not it's uh the question is if we're allowed to ask this question and how to ask this question because at the end of the day we need to understand and to figure out how it works for us even though we know that not always can we have the answer but to understand there are many people that with this question they they left the path of yiddish guides because of this question it was too hard to pain and they couldn't understand it and we can't um judge anybody but you know that's that's the mitch on the topic tonight imagine we'll get some clarity to help us how to ask the question and how to understand how to give us the physic to be able to continue even though there are people who at the end of the day are going through real huge challenges and are trying to understand so much thank you ravi it's a great of us to be with us tonight and to give us some physic clarity and a little bit of understanding beautiful opening um again let's overview tonight's chair tonight we're going to discussing the story of eve a little bit to give us the general context of what we're talking about and of course that's the powerful topic is why the good things happen why do bad things happen to good people and why did the right to suffer sadhaka alloy um tonight's show is sponsored by moistus hattori la delinden this week's sponsor they're doing a big raffle to build up the linden community over here they're starting a beautiful toyota community in jersey over here they're raffling off a big house so um it's definitely worth to join london new jersey could upgrade to a mansion three thousand square feet and there's a whole link over here to join we'll put it in the chat management try to join from kazakh build up a linden new jersey to be a beautiful community and then the link for the raffle everybody should try to join right right right i'm going to read your bio and then the floor is yours okay was my cat's right i hope you michael may okay because it's way too long but i tried my best rabbi rabbi bridowitz scope of knowledge brilliance as well as uniquely ability to grasp complicated material and communicate it clearly to others is legendary barbara bradford received his bachelor's from arts from john hopkins university attained to the national medical college he graduated magna from harvard law school and shortly after became a rev of silver spring woodside shul in silver spring maryland while maintaining the status attendant professor at university of maryland school of law he lectured extensively throughout the us and in israel medical business family ethics he published numerous articles on bankruptcy commercial law medical ethics and jewish law era breitz and his wife currently are living in stroll and zero you shall and be published widely in jewish areas of laws and ethics and vibrators and graciousness for coming and it's just to have you here for yours thank you very much uh it's a great honor to be here it's a little early for me uh but hashem i think the subject is important enough that it was worthwhile uh giving up a little bit of uh sleep uh you know it's been said you know i i teach at arsenal obviously and uh we deal with all sorts of hashtag questions how do you know there's a god how do you know god gave the torah but to me by far the most difficult question not just for the bali chuva but for me is how do we understand the idea that good righteous people seem to be suffering in this world and as coach menachem said we're in good company to ask this question because indeed this is exactly what majira asked dakota sparkling show me your glory or estrogen says meaning the mormon bronco says why is it that righteous people suffer and evil doers prosper and in reality hakadosh boracay did not give him an answer who said i make my choices you're not going to understand me so in a sense i could just stop here because if maisha raveno the greatest of the navien who ever lived asked hashem kanye melpanin to explain to him what is going on and hashem basically said if you remember hashem passed by him and he said [Music] you will see me from the back upon i lo yaro you'll never understand it as it's happening maybe at the end when all is said done maybe it'll make sense when mashiach so what is it that i could possibly add that if my shira baner was not able to to understand but it is interesting we do have one book in tanakh that deals explicitly with this theme and this is the very famous book but very rarely studied book the davoneno and that is the book of eos which deals explicitly with the notion of a righteous man who suffers now it's interesting there's many many opinions in the gemara who was he when did he live and there's even an opinion that he of this lohaya volonipra there never was a man ev it's a fictional novel and according to one view the fictional novel was written by by what no other than moshe rabeno himself so the way i understand that i don't have a clear source for this but the way i reconstruct it is that after maishirabanam tried to get a direct answer from hashem and maisha rabeinu didn't get a direct answer maisharabenu tried to work out the sugiya by writing the story of through ruach hakodesh to try to get such a and understanding but again for our purposes it's not really important if ev is an actual person or eve is a paradigm of the human experience because in many many ways eve is the story of every man with a capital e because uh eve is not even identifiably jewish because eve is a human story it is a jewish story that is why although eve is described as urayolo kim one who fears god there is no direct reference to torah mitzvos or the pratim of yiddish kites because this is a story about the human condition and it's been well said that the question of theodicy as the fancy term why do righteous people suffer is the single biggest question for the one who believes in god because if if our notion of the rebina shalom is that he's compassionate but he's also just but he's fair and he's good then how could all of these things happen what is going on and that is what the book of eff grapples with in which there seems to be a righteous man who fears god takes care of people uh and uh unbeknownst to him when god says to his heavenly courts that have you ever seen such a righteous man as here and the son who by the way is not a fallen angel the suffering is part of god's heavenly court he's like the prosecutor he's like the devil's advocate he simply says oh yeah well of course eve is righteous because he gets a good deal out of this i would also be righteous if i get if i get wealth and respect family let me start taking things away and then we'll see what a righteous man he is and god agrees to what looks like an unconscionable best at the expense of a human being now again we as the readers know of this fact he of does know about it and all of a sudden things start happening he loses his wealth he loses his children he loses his health he has loathsome diseases the one thing god did not take from him was his wife because that would have been the same as death and god did not take from him his friends because oh russo me susa either without friends a person has no life because once again you couldn't allow eve to die because that would have meant the experiment couldn't be carried out the whole experiment was to see how he would respond to something and he of initially we talked about the patience of job eve is so patient mrs ev has a brief walk on heart where she says why don't you just curse god so he'll take you out of your misery and he of responds with the immortal words hashem god gives hashem takes may the name of god be blessed and this is the basis of the phrase the patience of job but whoever coined the patience of job only read chapter one of the book of eve and didn't read the rest because eve was visited by his friends his three friends eliphaz bildat and sulfur and they sit with him for seven days and seven nights and they don't say anything and this is the mccoy in halakha that when you pay a shiver call you don't talk until the avail talks but something happened during those seven days in which he have got progressively more agitated and upset and at the end of the seven days he explodes in a paraxon of fury cursing the day that he was born challenging god demanding answers needing explanations and then the book moves into a dialogue or a trial in which each of his friends tries to present a position and there's a fourth friend who joins later a leader now we obviously do not have time to go over the nuances of the different positions but i'm going to be very very simplistic just to give a basic chat and obviously more will come out in the q a but the friends essentially espouse what you might call and this is not pejorative a conventional religious philosophy that is god is good and a just and good god is not going to inflict pain on somebody unless they deserve it so you mr ev must have some sins that you need to be messaging you have to do chuba maybe you're not as righteous as you think you are meaning if bad things happen to you it can't be because you're righteous it must be because you have sins now they say it in different ways and style is very important here some of the friends say it in a very gentle kind supportive way look into your life make ah but you know as eve refuses to accept a gentle muslim they ramp it up meaning at some points at the end they say there's never been a sinner as bad as you you're the worst guy that's ever been by the way psychologically this is very fascinating because this is often the dilemma of the caregiver who's trying to help and the afflicted person is not responding the caregiver might actually actually turn against the person they're trying to help in frustration why aren't you listening to my words of wisdom and the light and again there's a fourth friend who again makes kind of the same point the malbem other commentaries show nuances and differences in in their approaches but the common denominator of all of these are the notion there must be something wrong with you now you know the old saying be careful for what you pray for because you might get it eve is constantly saying i want to hear it from god i want to hear it from god i want to hear it from god and god finally shows up in a whirlwind very scary scene and says to you if you call you want to hear from me and e.f says yeah like what's going on so god shows him i think uh the equivalent of a magnificent national geographic uh travelogue he shows him the wonders of the world he shows them the stars and the planets and the deserts and the mountains and the snow and the ice and the magnificent gigantic animals and he says to eve pretty good huh could you do this were you there when i created all of this magnificent world now it seems that god is not answering any question at all god is just showing you hey it's a pretty good university of think you could do better but strangely enough at the end of god's magnificent by the way if you love nature uh this is one of the most beautiful descriptions of the natural world that appears in world of mountains and beauty and gardens and and planets and snow and ice and winds and hurricanes the whole magnificent panorama of the universe full of power and might and beauty and ef says one word to god he says now nikanti can have two translations in hebrew it can either mean i'm comforted you have comforted me or nihanty can also mean i regret what i've said either way eo seems to be placated by god's words and god says your friends are wrong you your friends are blaming you they're wrong now in some ways that's good news and that's bad news because the good news is hey i'm not a bad guy the bad news is so now i have akasha if you would have told me i'm a bad guy at least i would know why it's happened but now that i'm not a bad guy why is it happening so god shows him the national geographic travelogue and eve is placated with me what's going on hashem is not answering the question and why is eve happy with what hashem told him you can spend your life pondering this book this is not a book in which we can give quickie shut him uh you know little vertler to try to explain what god is doing but i would suggest three interrelated ideas idea number one which is not so much in our messiah is that god is simply overwhelming here with his might and his power he's telling ev shut up don't ask questions because i could do a lot worse to you if i wanted to kind of like a parent saying to a child you know you want to you know you want to get hit you know you want to do something wrong i can give it to you twice as bad which means shot number one which is not in our messiah so much is hashem is simply telling you don't ask questions i could do worse if i want that's one maha left that some modern commentaries say that's not our messiah and that does not fit our view of a benevolent god shot number two is deeper that we exist in our world not only as discrete individuals but we exist as kind of atoms as part of a larger whole and sometimes things that don't make sense happening to me as an individual are necessary for the entire pattern of the universe it's like the old story that we are like actors in a play and imagine that you only have one page in a million page play and that one page says enter stage left and break your leg so you're going to go to the director and say this doesn't make sense and the director says you're such a shyta if you read the half a million pages before and half a million after you would know this is critical this would have changed the whole school the whole plan so what hashem is showing you this hashem is showing you that the universe is complex and interrelated and the things that happen to me are not only because of me but they're part of a whole mahalik that spans centuries in which any little change would change everything and therefore what he's showing me of is the interrelationship of the universe you know ecologists talk about the fact that you eliminate some little fish or a little worm that changes everything in the world so your mistake of is you're acting as if the only relationship god has is between you and him as opposed to looking at the ripple effects that are no gay everybody else but the third explanation which i think is really the most powerful is god is not asking god is not answering the question at all eve has a question and god basically says taka you have a good question and i want you to know that just as moshe who didn't get an answer the first time meisha rabbenu who may have written me up does not get an answer the second time the point is i'm with you i exist in other words eve started off with a question but he never got an answer to a question instead he felt the presence of hashem what hashem is telling him is i know you're suffering i know life is hard i know it doesn't make sense i am with you i am there when one feels the presence of hashem they can bear even that which doesn't make sense even that which seems unfair so it's an amazing thing moshe asks hashem for a reason and hashem said not telling moshe tries to explore the reason to a philosophical novel and once again his answer is exactly the same thing feel the presence of hashem and you will have strength and you will have hope and you will have comfort and you will have courage not in the sense of specific answers but those who believe sometimes don't need the answer they can go on in the light of that uncertainty and that i think is one of i mean there are infinite messages here but one of the great messages of ef is we can't always have specific answers you know i've been around for many many years and i'm sometimes overwhelmed with the pain that exists in the world pain of all sorts there's financial difficulties there's emotional difficulties shalom bias there's illness there's depression there's despair there's loneliness and it can be very very overwhelming very overwhelming in which people who are fundamentally good fundamentally decent go through so much and you know we like to give this answer and this answer this answer you know we have behalf but you know when you're dealing with the facts on the ground then you were dealing with the actual people ultimately we have to admit and i'll say right off the bat that we don't have definitive answers but what we can offer is what god offered you god also did not give you an answer but hashem gave empathy support and that's really the best we can do to try to emulate the ways of hakadosh so i i guess that's kind of an opening remark that i hope that would set the tone yes that's great um let's jump in over here we're going to start first with a poll we're going to ask everybody a question everybody should answer honestly what they feel just a general question and then we've got a bunch of questions that came in i just want to mention reverend graduates gives a weekly q a in uh in arsenal and he has a podcast that they listen to they're unbelievable they range from anything to everything literally from anything to anything tonight i know people want to ask questions from all abroad you know we're going to try to focus basically on this topic and the tremendous will come back again and grace us again down the road and we'll cover other topics um so let's start off with the poll and then um we'll we'll take it from there give me one second okay three question paul what this is these opinions okay this is your feelings so don't take it out the wrong way why do you think good people suffer and evil people seem like they have everything going for them three choices to choose any of the three which one resonates with you the best because the evil people are getting their payment down here option one option b is because hashem loves the good people so much he wants to give them more hardships to reward them or option c i don't think there's an answer the world is meant to be random some people get some people don't get it's called the hero second second poll do you really believe that hashem gives us pain and suffering based on what we can handle and their need for our self-growth there's three possible answers that i put let's see what the the answer is yes 100 there's a perfect calculation for everything i don't ever question option two i hear it i don't believe it's true since a person is created to get stronger with struggles naturally so that russian will give him will just naturally come stronger it's not that it's a calculation for it exactly or number three i think it's a random to make the world not clear in order we get paid for believing and trusting on hashem so you get scar third question again the answer what you're what you feel it's not uh it's not a you know third third question in the story of eve when the sutton takes everything away from him you feel it's a fear challenge two options yes a person is created to withstand whatever hashem will give him or option be sometimes challenges are just too much for people and it seems unjust so everybody please answer that the best of your ability somebody texts me none of the answers are what i feel okay it's not it's not some of them you feel them it's just meant to get a concept of feeling and then we'll think from there okay we'll give it five seconds and then we'll share it with everybody and then we will uh jump into questions again we are live questions go first anybody has a live question please you could ask roberto it's anything literally on the planet so please copy ryan you have this close of everybody who's here to text me and live goes first if you have another question to text me but live questions go first okay um let's share the poll okay i think almost everybody voted over here let's see over here people here with you tonight wow okay so let's share the poll with everybody okay the first question was like this why do you think good people suffer and evil people seem to have everything going for them so you have an equal split across the board three thirty third half third of the people believe because evil people are getting their payment down here 39 a little little bit the most was hashem loves the good people so much he wants to give them more hardships to reward them more and 29 of people i don't think there's an answer the world is meant to be random so some people get some people don't get so true all right all right this is what the answer if you have any comments on any of them you could say it i'm going to jump to the next one no i just want to say that the truth of the matter is and again this will be more developed uh you know these are not either or types of questions meaning to say is operating in a multi-variable context in which sometimes there are consequences of bahira sometimes there's even in your name of masalos that can control things sometimes there is punishment for hate sometimes there is tikkun to bring out strengths and qualities that would otherwise be dormant sometimes it is connected to gilgal past life meaning to say when we talk about six million jews done in the holocaust there could be six million reasons why they died as opposed to a single reason so just as ghazal say ayla vieillo de reillo kim when they say these and those are the words of the eternal god the truth is on the issue of evil and white sadhikum suffer there can sometimes be certainly very much more than one single single factor that's going on i think you see the answer that's why people it's like divided in three i think that's really it yeah okay the second question do you really believe that hashem gives us pain and suffering based on what we can handle need for self growth so 65 of people here yes 100 is a perfect calculation for everything they don't ever have a question when things happen 16 percent of people i hear it but i don't believe since it's true a person is created to get stronger struggles naturally and ninety percent of people say i think it's random to make the world not clear in order we get paid for believing having a moon and matakan and trusting in hashem yeah i guess my my comment would be i'd like to bring in a very important idea of the kazanish you know we have the famous statement of ignorance whatever god does is for the good and gansu with the person who was suffering and began with the toba so the khasanesh says that we make maybe a dangerous over simplistic mistake when we assume that gamsula tova means everything will have a happy ending everything will turn out the way we want it to turn out because obviously we know in life that people die we know there's tragedies so the khazanish made the point and this is a more mature view that damsulatova does not mean everything will be pollyannish everything will be the cherry on top of the sundae rather life will be will often be very very hard but hashem is doing it for a purpose there is an ultimate good that's going to be served so gonzola tobi doesn't mean i'll have a happy ending in my sense you know forgive me for it for uh quoting mick jagger maybe it's not appropriate but there's a one of his verses not that i've listened to the song but one of the verses i've come across in reading is he has a song that says you don't always get what you want but you get what you need and that kind of encapsulates i think the khasi nisha's uh is probably the first time anyone ever compared the two people again totally improper uh but but that kind of encapsulates the idea that life is not about what is pleasant for me but life is about what is meaningful for me what i need and the gamsula tova is hashem will give me what will make me the greatest best person i'm able to be and ralph sullivan said it a little differently well so chick pointed out that the issue of theodicy should not be approached theo theologically it should be approached and what he means is the following theology is asking why did god do something and maybe i don't know that is asking how do i respond to the situation that i've been given and that's a meaningful question what do i do given my master that is something i can deal with and i must deal with so once again and again i if i could refer to a secular book written by a deeply religious man who was not formally from he had no education uh this is victor frankel the immortal book one of the great great uh books of the 20th century man's search for meaning in which out of his own experiences in the concentration camp he and for me to say it would be pretentious but he was a person who went through those experiences how it is often our confrontation with the greatest depths of evil that can make us into the people that we otherwise would never have been and i think that is the hush of the torah okay beautiful everybody let's let's hit the third poll a lot of people just want to say the people out of text a lot of people are texting amazing questions very powerful questions again the live ones go first redwood says ready for all don't don't feel uncomfortable this is 63 we're all in it together so please feel comfortable last question we had in the poll the story of eve when the sutton takes everything away from you feel it was a fair challenge 55 percent said yes a person is created to withstand whatever shum will give him or better it's 45 of people feel sometimes challenge are just too much for people and it seems unjust well again uh emotionally i certainly understand that and there are times that i will admit that i feel that way as well uh but you know there's an old cliche that god never gives you a test that you cannot pass i will counter one cliche with another cliche god never gives you a guaranteed pass either because that would have no point meaning in every nissan that god gives us we certainly have the potential to fail and i cannot look down at anybody that has been broken by their initionos because i don't know if i could pass how can i judge a person how can i look down at a person who because of suffering lost their faith in god nevertheless i do believe as a religious jew that ultimately there was a way that we could pass these decisions there there is a way we could grow from this and therefore i don't believe god gives us a challenge beyond our capacity but very very often we do get broken and therefore as i say i don't sit in judgment but i do think there was always a possibility of growing from that messiah now sometimes it takes time i mean i think of someone even like ali weizel allah that for many years after the holocaust he essentially rejected a lot of judaism he thought that god was unjust but after a number of years he made peace with hashem he didn't make peace with the holocaust he made peace without him and in a very moving editorial the new york times he said to god we've been separated for too long can't we get together again i don't understand you i don't know why you didn't but i want to be close to you once again so sometimes it takes a lot of time you can't always rush a presence uh when a person goes over buried goes through a bereavement goes through a depression sometimes we want to get them out of their funk a little too quickly a person needs a time to grieve a person needs time to complain a person needs time to even have kindness against three bundesliga sometimes but the hope would be that eventually they can get to a place where if they don't understand at least they can move forward and understand that there's a godzilla tova even if they don't perceive it right now and that's the hope but i guess they say it takes time and you cannot rush the process you have to respect the right of a person to grieve that is why we have our balance i mean think about it if the attitude is simply i should i should move to an immediate absolutely modality then why mourn the day that your father dies go dancing what do you what do you why does the torah mandate sadness grieving and mourning the answer is because the tyrant its infinite wisdom understands that even if whatever hashem does is the type i as a human being need to experience sadness and bereavement and grieving and then i could go on okay i'm gonna start with a question that they sent in and we'll see where it goes is it possible that we are just too busy comparing to other people and what other people have see whatever i have is what i'm supposed to have so why why are some people so busy with what other people have and comparing yeah um well that's a very very excellent point and uh i think the questionnaire is a big static in a sense you're not asking a question you're giving an answer i need to say a lot of our discontent is that we look at other people and we say why can't i have what they have etc and then we feel god is cheating us and hashem is not taking care of us you're 100 percent right if a person were to focus on the blessings in their lives and have a karasatov appreciation for what hashem gave them and not look at others so much a lot of the angst that we experienced would in fact go away there's a story they tell in the it's not even a jewish story they tell it in the special education community and i've seen speakers use it in the yiddish guide as well it's a beautiful story a woman was describing the trials and challenges of raising a severely autistic child and she gave her muscle she said you know every parent dreams they're going to have a perfect child a brilliant student a charisma charismatic personality and he gave the muscle that there was a woman who all of her life wanted to go to italy and she was saving money to go to italy and finally she finally got enough money and somehow she got on the wrong ship or the wrong plane i don't know how it happened to myself she wound up in holland and she was so to broken because howling was not italy and all of the things she dreamed about she didn't get but because of that she never saw the beauties of holland and holland too was beautiful but it's beautiful in a different way than italy but she was so fixated on the life that she wanted to have that she never appreciate the life that she was given you know there's a saying if you don't i have the life that you love try to love the life that you have and that i think is a very very profound idea that if we could overcome the jealousy the envy if we could look at the life that we were given as something good as something blessed then i think that could help us a lot through our lives 100 so as i say i think this is not a question this is actually a partial answer to the issue of how we deal with adversity and struggle in life beautiful right now it's beautiful okay we have the first live question you're on hi robert breiderwicz thank you for taking my question um i think most of the idea of my question was touched upon an introduction but i think i'm going to ask it from a different perspective um basically just generally we know when we all go through severe challenges or even regular challenges the classic answer when we go to raw rosh shiva tam they say if you really believe that there's a judgement this and what hashem does for the best you could really be happy that's the classic answer i got i mean i'm sure i don't know if everyone else got that type of answer the question is like what does that exactly mean like are we just is it just like a placebo effect just be it believe that there's a judgement to this and you'll be happy like obviously even if we know there could be a judgement but if we don't know the husband so what type of happiness could we have is there a way to be happy without knowing the husband why this the goodness behind the thing that is there like wha also like kind of like you know all other the hard questions of clients that we have how do we know yiddish kait is ms how do we know there was a mahmud harsinai i mean the rav talked about in the beginning we understand that it's a real question and we better give good answers because if not i mean kasper shalom what we're doing may be a whole whatever but over here for some reason it's what's the reason that over here our seiko has to be taken like i understand that it has like we can't use ourselves and there is no answer but why why is this thing different than the other things and what is the coping mechanism that when you say if you have empathy with hashem what does that exactly mean like is that what you mean we could be happy like what could we do when we are we really have this most serious challenges and we have no clue what could be i mean we can always imagine things in the days of that result he could give you a husband there's a guild goal this and we could always imagine we were guilty but we don't know what the guild goal was how could we appreciate it and continue on our lives and our journey again it's a very excellent question first though let me let me reiterate the point that i said earlier you know buddhism teaches that suffering is an illusion and therefore there's no point in suffering at all i think judaism does not accept that judaism does recognize the reality of suffering the reality of sadness this is why they're surveillance so the notion that you should automatically be simpler i tell the person you know that may sometimes be premature in fact my first aveda when someone comes to me with adversity and with suffering is not to pull it away by saying godzilla told us what i should say when i'm going from suffering it shouldn't automatically be what i say when you're going from suffering but at some point you are correct that godzilla tova is going to factor in and move me to a new place now the question you're asking is very good good if if the only answer we have to be suffering is a black box in which we say for sure there's an explanation but i'm not going to tell you what it is and you have no way of knowing what it is then in what way can i be comforted if i'm simply given no insight at all but i think uh the answer to that i hate to say the answer because emotionally there may not be an answer but i think the idea is once again ask yourself what does this challenge me to become what type of person can i become as a result of this an example i give very often of people that i know personally many of you might have heard of the kobe mandela foundation founded by rabbi seth and sherry mandel and they lost a child along with his classmate to a brutal terrorist attack in toccoa the two kids 12 year old kids were playing under a cave subterranean cave and they got their skulls smashed in by so-called arab freedom fighters great courageous guys who attacked two twelve-year-olds they were brutally murdered i can tell you that the mandels were so so so devastated by this that this was beyond grieving beyond crying this was the greatest greatest tragedy that a human being could possibly suffer i mean nothing nothing can top this and for a while they were paralyzed and immobilized but after a while they started a foundation called the cl in memory of their son kobe hashemi kobe mandel foundation that offers financial medical psychiatric assistance to families that have been victimized by terrorism and because of this tragedy they turned the tragedy into a source of light a source of goodness they took what was so meaningless and absurd in some way and they turned it into a driving mission that brings comfort and freedom to tens of thousands of people over many many years and this is something they would not have they would not have even thought about had they not gone through this tragedy and mrs mendel herself wrote a magnificent book which i urge people to read and called the blessings of a broken heart which exactly goes through this idea and of course that's victor frankel's thesis in man's search for meaning so i think the way we get comfort and solace is by taking the challenges of life and asking ourselves what can i do to become a greater person a better person many of you might have heard of the actor christopher reeve who died a few years ago he was superman a guy i'm not even giving a jewish example and christopher reeves suffered a tremendous outcome he was paralyzed in a writing accident there was a point in which he wanted to take his life but he couldn't even commit suicide by himself he couldn't move his wife talked him out of it she said let's talk her for a night if you still want to kill yourself i'll kill you she said but let's schmooze a little bit and she talked him out of it again a very righteous woman in that way and he changed his life around he began to give speeches talks giving people inspiration and he said about himself he would never wish his accident on anybody but he likes the person he became more than the person that he was because the person that he was was focused on wealth accomplishment egotist and now he learned through his awful struggles empathy and compassion and care this in a sense may be an awful price to pay an awful price today but ultimately this can be the catalyst to make us the type of person that we never would have become had we not had those struggles and the beautiful thing about it is that this can apply to minor struggles as well as major struggles meaning even in our minor struggles i didn't get the job i wanted i didn't get into the medical school that i wanted nevertheless there is this capacity to take now the old t-shirt saying if life gives you lemons you try to make lemonade and that i think is the solace that we that we get um i'm sorry i just uh i have a little bit of a technical problem i hate to bring this up i need to i need to plug in my computer i'm on battery life just give me two minutes no problem no problem take your time everywhere okay so what do you think style rubber and a solid whoa swiss all the people that are texting me i'm getting so many texts at once okay then i fly one of them hold on one second i'm not going to get the cancer up and all the questions people text me i'll say a story from the ramban while we're here on this topic i don't know if robert brothers could hear me right brady can you hear me i'm gonna say a story can you connect the famous story of the rambana the ramban i believe not the ramban the ramban or the nun i think the story was that there was a person that uh was dying and he had a bunch of daughters and and he said to him i need you to make sure that all my daughters get married you take care of the money that i'll take care of it but i'll ask that you when you go up to him once you come to me in a dream and tell me why so many people suffer for so many from so many different service that's why i heard the story so he said the first lord got engaged got married he never came to him in a dream second daughter well the last daughter was getting married and it was the night before the wedding and then you came to the ramban in a dream so ramban said you know i waited for all the all your daughters to get married you told me you promised you're gonna come the dream so yeah it's a very big time for me to remind him to come to you but i made a promise i have to keep it the reason why i never came to you is because when you came up to schwein there's no question you see everything so clearly there's no question anymore you've heard that story yeah yeah you're beautiful beautiful by the way like if i could add a little work to this like i uh did not see this word inside but somebody told me i had mentioned that when maisha rabeno asked hashem show me your way so the annual he wanted to know why did sadique him suffer so hashem passes by and he said he says you will see me from the back you will not see me from the front so i mentioned earlier that for some cypher's chat that you won't understand things as they're happening but in retrospect at the end of time you will see how everything makes sense but uh the additional vote that i heard was this cause i'll say that my sure being who saw the back of hashem's film hashem was wearing fill-in whatever that means and hashem saw the cash share of the twill and shell rush so here's what it says we know that's villain shall rush has two rituals there are two straps in front of you the right strap is supposed to be a little longer than the left strap the right represents hashem's kindness that's it and the left represents hashem's din and khaset is dominant over din but still very thin in the world but when you see it from the back you see that both straps emanate from the same place so even what looks like the din of hashem is actually a hidden a hidden if you really understand it well and indeed that's the meaning of shema hashem [Music] says hashem hashem is ultimately it emanates from rahman that even the media saddened is really a different manifestation of midas in an ultimate sense okay beautiful writers have a bunch of pending live questions let's try to get to some of them okay yeah okay you're on okay i guess that's me right that's you okay um rabbi bridal was it is this is since i've been following you and yavana and your questions and answers and a number of other things um i always wished you know that i could be you know in your killer or whatever you could be my room so this is my one opportunity um and i have to also add that i particularly like when you say i may get into trouble when i say this but yeah because and that's one of the reasons i really follow you because you say things where other people fear to tread um but don't worry my i don't think my question is very controversial um and actually i came up with the second question uh as you were answering someone else's um so i'll say them both together the one i didn't intend to say was i'm not even sure how i could apply it exactly to the sonic borrello but um you know when i'm listening i imagine other people were all feeling as when we go through our very very painful experiences and uh we all get something like you said sooner or later um it's very hard um to be well you know we feel like we're in the worst space and then i listened to um you know the story that you told about um i forgot now i'm thinking just kobe bryant and i know it wasn't there but you know who i mean yeah exactly um and you know that my first thought is you know how can i even speak up because i didn't come close or should never happen to show them to what she went through um and that's something that could set me backwards um so that's one thing that i'm just putting out that is difficult to keep in mind the guilt that my cyrus and someone else's desire i know you did say you know even if it's a job etc etc um but something i i imagine many people grapple with the question i did submit um was this eternal question about the feeling the closeness of hashem and um it's that i have difficulty feeling his closeness not because i think he left me but i'm not i struggle with how do i achieve this in the first place so and if i can't call upon him in the best of times other than to say thank you maybe that's when i feel most profoundly when things are good and i you know and i could really appreciate the good at those times but how can i even go to the closeness during the bad times i know it's a big madrega and most of us have trouble getting there but this is how you when you gave um your question i mean you gave the talk before taking the questions this is you know that was your third point that hashem is with us no matter what and this is how this is as close of an answer as you could give so i guess it's a question about quote feeling closeness of a stem yeah and then ultimately how you know it's it's interesting i'm sure you've heard this this is a famous story and again it does not originate from the jewish tradition but it's been incorporated about the two sets of footsteps it's a very very famous mushroom in society as a whole that a person says throughout my life i always had two sets of footsteps i'm walking through the sand and god is walking with me and now i only see one set of footsteps i'm all alone i don't feel the presence of god and hashem's answer was no my son those footsteps are mine i'm carrying you through this very very great difficulty and it's something that it's hard for us to grasp exactly but you know hashem answers prayers not always by giving us what we ask for but by giving us the strength to cope with the situation that we're given to put one foot in front of the other to keep on going not to give up hope to try to be optimistic to see the good in the world you know the rambam in the moringa book raises an abstract philosophical question he says is there more evil in the world than good it says people say life is a veil of tears life is so bad only a little good says is there more good than evil so the rambam brings a philosophical proof that there's more good than evil from the fact that evil still upsets us we get upset when bad things happen now if bad things would be the norm of life then why would we be upset the very fact that we're outraged we're upset we raise a question implies that there's a lot more good than evil in the world that's an interesting perspective you know the old story that they never publish good news uh they never publish uh or dog dog bites man that's not news it has to be man by star or whatever it would be and the truth is one of the keys to feeling the presence of hashem is hakara satov to learn to be grateful and appreciate everything the fact that you can breathe the fact that you can walk the fact that you have people in your life that care about you and that you care about the more we can focus on being grateful on our kara satov for the khastaya the more i can feel the presence of god and love him and feel his love for me that is why the very word you who did this emis points out why are jews called yehudim after all you who dies only one one tribe this fus emma says because leia called her fourth son yehuda because she said now i am grateful and why was she grateful after number four because she knew there were four wives and 12 tribes each one gets three when you get what you're entitled to you think you're not grateful you're grateful when you get more than you're entitled to says this fuss ms every jew must go through life with the feeling hashem has given me more good than i'm entitled to i'm grateful for everything and when you're grateful for everything then you know when things don't go your way they're not going to break you so much because you don't have the sense of machiali i'm entitled to it let me point out as well that this is where memory serves a very very important part you know when we when we're going through dark moments we think that's the end we can't see any hope we don't see any future we don't see any way out of me but then we have to remember that a lot of times we've been there before we've gone through these and we came out on the other side but sadok says you have to have faith in hashem and faith in yourself as well and memory is very very important because we can't allow the negative to cancel out the positives as if they didn't exist at all so i think hakara coupled with memory and reliving the good experiences in your life can go a long way to creating the attitudes at least that allow you to feel the presence of hashem where is it okay next live question you're on i thank you for taking my call uh ushi and coach manasm you guys are the best um the question for the rev is it's a little a little bit off topic but i think it's a good uh general hush guffa question being for more cement i think it could definitely be a very good question my question is in in general does hashem does hashem love uh all every every year the same or for example does hashem love a rebecca kanievsky the same as he loves a little omi or even someone worse someone doing you know average does it is it an equal uh platform that's that's the question you know that that is a very excellent question and it's not an easy question i'm not sure i can give you a a definitive answer the closest i can come to is let's look at the parent relationship right sparkle is described as avenue so let's imagine he's volcano as well but alvino is certainly one of the aspects by which we define it so let's ask the same question i can turn the question on you or on me or anyone that's a parent i have two kids one kid is righteous he does everything right and the other kid is unfortunately off the derrick and uh maybe on drugs so here's the question do i love the righteous kid more than i love the kid that's off the camera now granted obviously i love what the righteous kid is doing and he's doing much more in accordance with my with my will but does that mean my love for the kid off the derrick is less or is it there but it's changed with sadness over what could have been and what and what was not i think as parents we have to think about that and ask ourselves what our answer would be and to some degree that might give us an insight into akadesparco hakadoshvarko looks at even the russia and he sees the potential after all everybody is made with the salamehlo kim [Music] does apply even to non-jews that's that's the mushmose of the mishnah in pirkei so we have in fact this is one of the imperatives of kiribati the rambam says an interesting thing that the assad of trying to be matariv people is it's an expression of your not only abbas israel it's an expression of your ab if you love hashem how can you let god's children walk away from their connection to him right you can't just i mean if if a parent had ten children and nine of them died you can't comfort the child the parent by saying oh you have one child left right so i guess my answer would be i think god's love is the same but god's disappointment is also going to be much much greater to the to to one of us than to refine kenepsky in which hashem only gets knock nakas but it is an interesting question because there are tsukim that do imply that god hates the rashaw but the balatanya writes that even in human emotions there is such a thing as simultaneous love and hate and love and hate are not as opposite as you might assume love can coexist with hate and sometimes the greater our love the greater our hate when we feel betrayed and the like and i think that complicated dynamic is what is going on with hashem's feeling towards the uh towards the regime because you have to understand a russia is a tragedy not only in terms of what he does to other people a russia is a tragedy in terms of what he did to himself the potential that was there and god grieves over it god mourns over it and therefore we too have to mourn over it and try to help bring people back to whatever degree we can still whoever radowitz okay you're on hi thank you very much um first of all i i i really like the idea of instead of finding something secretly good about the challenge um you just look at what but it can bring out in you know in myself so that really talks to me uh my question now is if i have a challenge that the challenge itself keeps me from becoming a productive um better person the challenge itself keeps me back from that doesn't allow me to connect hashem doesn't allow me to be the best person i can be say something like depression anxiety things that really keep the person back how can i find challenges like that to be um good and better myself as a person you know that that is a very very very excellent good good question uh let me get tell you a story about from obviously in which a man came to the bridge over before rosh hashanah and the man was a righteous man the man wasn't sonic and the man had a very difficult life and the man asked the producer could you pray for me that i should have an easier life you know ready that it's not because i want to be comfortable i want to learn more i want to give more stucco i want to serve hashem more i want to become a better person but these sorrows are preventing me from doing it i just want to serve hashem in a better way and the prodigious said to him you're 100 right i know your motives are noble and i will dive and feed and the story goes that after rosh hashanah and the whole year things were just as bad and the man went to the verdict of her and said what's going on and the predictor looked at him very sad and he said i'm so sorry he says hashem cherishes what you're doing more than the alternative would have been again this is maybe to hard to understand but essentially he's saying the following you have or we have a certain idea of what does it mean for me to be the best person that i can to be able to do this and to do that and to do that and to do that and all of these things are holding me back but sometimes a person's advisor is to do less but to struggle and push themselves and it's in that struggle that they find their redemption and their tika not necessarily in the abstract accomplishments that might be more noticeable so it really is a question of you know the language you used in the question was um it's holding me back from becoming my better self so semantically we have a question how do i define my better self sometimes my better self has to be defined in terms of what did hashem envision as my purpose in the world my struggle in the world and that may not coincide necessarily with the goals that i would like to have but i sometimes have to redefine the goals now again i i god forbid i'm not talking down in any way if you because this is an extremely difficult process that you know i struggle with and we all we all struggle with because all of us have the idea of what is a successful person even in rookies even spiritually we have definitions of success but our definitions of success are not necessarily happening of our ultimate success in life okay brad what's another question thank you for taking my quote um this is really a question more to the side of pain um if hashem is a call yojo why can't he reach the goals that he's accomplishing through the pain without pain you know i hear i hear what a child accomplishes with the pain but if there's a call yoko you should be able to accomplish it without without yeah yeah yeah uh this is a certain genre of question that that comes up in a lot of contexts uh let me just give you another example which is kind of an analogous question to you everyone knows the famous passage in the derek hashem that the reason that hashem's ultimate goal is to bestow goodness on us so why do we have to struggle because he says that if we were to get the goodness without the struggle there would be embarrassment there would be busha and therefore we have to struggle so that when we get the good things there'll be no busha so the question becomes well i guess berkeley could have created a situation where we don't get embarrassed and if we don't get embarrassed he could just give us the good without slows and without any obligations in other words the issue becomes uh academically could have eliminated the negatives uh and just give us the the positives you know i'm not sure uh that i have a direct answer for that i mean the point basically is that you know in some ways the world of struggle is is is necessary for growth now to simply say why can't there be growth without struggle i guess the question would be would that be growth that would just be an artificial thing that's engrafted on us that did not come from anything internal within our dynamic and for something to be part of us to be part of our panemias to be part of our internal identity it has to come through a process from within and you know to say that well after sparkle could have made a process from within without the struggle you know i i i'm just not sure if it's logically i mean i understand the question but logically you're basically saying could have created a universe with a totally different dynamic kind of an alternative universe with different laws of spirituality and physics i think i think i'm the question my understanding is like if hashem wants me to be this type of person because it doesn't have to make me suffer to become that type of person he's called you awful he can do it any other way no but the thing is you wouldn't have been this type of person this type of person comes from the struggle so to simply say god could have short-circuited the process would have meant that the process didn't occur within you and therefore would it wouldn't have been the same unless sakura sparkle would kind of create an alternative universe structure uh which the round bomb says already is a question we can't really we can't really ask in other words it's kind of like asking why does gravity go down instead of going up couldn't hashem have made gravity going up well yeah he could have but but this is the structure of the universe and in the structure of the universe transformations of human beings occur through struggle and growth uh they are not automatic things now you're asking that god could have made a universe where it is automatically you know you understand that that would have been a different universe but it is a good question i understand that this is not a full full answer but it's similar to the derek hashem problem that i made that why couldn't god just eliminate the embarrassment the shot i think was by mr abeno that he said that if something would happen differently i would have to return the world to sheisha mayberations because everything had an exact husband from traditional vibrations like things have to work in a certain path that's kind of how it is meaning to say there is a certain structure here and hashem could make an alternative structure but that would change that would change the whole the whole picture uh the universe is founded on a certain structure of physical principles and spiritual principles okay murray let's go to the next question there's so many live questions right right so i hope you have all morning okay you're on yes i just got it okay okay okay so thank you very much uh for the reference amazing talk i'm looking forward to hearing it again with the recording uh my question is and maybe you have answered it somehow already but i need to hear it again um the ralph mentioned uh stories of greatness that come out from pain like superman or different organizations that were founded through people who had special needs children or different very difficult challenges in their lives so those are stories of greatness and they are usually very unique stories i wonder whether there is any research on all the broken lives in the process on all the stories of people who had tremendous challenges from which they never recovered no no listen you're you're 100 correct i i don't i don't need to suggest that everybody will be able to do this there are many many people who are broken many people who are depressed if you remember i had even said that side by side with the idea that god never gives you a test that you can't pass i would also submit hashem never gives you a test that you will pass there is no guaranteed pass in other words in every trial there is the possibility of failure there is the possibility of being broken and there are carbanos there is no question there are carbanos uh but i do think that it's our responsibility as human beings and as jews to look for the hidden potentials in life because what's the alternative as again victor frankel's book is it's very very instructive here one can choose the path of bitterness despair despondency or one can choose one can make a choice that i'm going to try to make my life something beautiful and something good and to try to find within me some hidden strength some courage to deal with the darkness that engulfs me and frankel said that that is the measure of a human being a definition of a virtuous human being is somebody who can make a choice so as i said before i do not dare sit in judgment on people that are overwhelmed by the adversities in their lives piercing of us tells us do not judge anybody until you reach their place and the semesters writes nobody ever reaches that place of somebody else but i do still believe that the message of the book of eve and the message of really all of our suffrage muslim is that we try to find the light in the darkness we try to find it and in that process of trying to find it we can take even the darkness in fact the zoar has a beautiful evocative phrase the zower has a phrase called uh the cardinousa who's seen that the cardenosa means black light the light that is black now black light is any contradiction but it means that even in the blackness there's a very hidden light that one tries to discover robert was okay you're wrong thank you uh rebuttrak thank you coach menachem and uh usher for uh setting this whole thing up really beautiful um rabbi bridewith it was true poetry i'm hearing you compare the khasanesh to mick jagger um really beautiful touchdown um okay so so the question i'm asking i'm gonna ask it in two ways um i'm asking i'm literally asking for a friend i'm asking for advice it's not for me but i i wanted i want some guidance with how to talk to people who are going through this um and i also think that there may be people on this call who are like dying to hear something like what i'm about to ask and they're they're just they're looking for an answer so the question is and and some really the lady who just spoke before me asked this and the lady earlier who asked a question like two three questions ago also asked this that sometimes there's there's people in my life people who i know stories that you hear where it's just so brutal and so terrible what they've been through and and they haven't gotten up you know they they got knocked in the mouth and they're laying on their back and what they went through either objectively how horrible how terrifying it was or subjectively because they're more sensitive and even if objectively other people have been through worse you know a lot of us are our you know grandchildren or children of holocaust survivors like it's unfathomable what they went through but to people who are just knocked down from whatever it was a molestation a death something that they went through what what can you tell them what can you give them what can you show them that can help them you know gain their power back and and and and face it and and i'm saying this as someone who truly believes i'm one of the pollsters who believes like an animal that there is nothing hashem just dishes you that you can't handle um but i believe that and and i don't know i don't know if everyone you know who's been through something really rough rougher than stuff i've been through how do you how do you what could you do for them yeah yeah well that's ultimately uh the 64 thousand dollar question as they say uh the most important thing first of all is not to demean the reality of their suffering as i said before sometimes we're too much in a rush to try to resolve the issue give them a terrorist give them an answer give them a mahalish without giving them time to grieve and to vent and to express their bitterness and express their pain and therefore i think first and foremost we do have an evoda of empathy of no say the old to bear the yoke that a person should know they're not alone uh initially they're not alone in the sense that you know you're there as a friend you're there to listen you're there to give your shoulder and eventually that can move to hashem you're not alone because you always have a goddess so i i do think that's extremely important not to short-circuit the process of letting people suffer and i know that's very hard if you're a person if i love somebody i care about somebody to kind of not take them out of it is very painful for me but on the other hand it is a process that people have to go through but at some point at some point uh we gotta go on we gotta live uh we have to make our life something and once again you sit down and you discuss with a person at some point not right away listen this is very very rough this is brutal you've been through a lot but do you want to be a victim is that how you want to define yourself or is there something we can do with your life to make it something beautiful and worthwhile to redeem the light that is hidden in this darkness and i do think that the experience that people go through in many many cases at some point in their lives they will be ready for the next step if they're given support if they're given love if they're given friendship if they're not abandoned sometimes people get tired right sometimes people get tired of dealing with people who are going through difficult times but if you can be a friend that can stay with them through that journey i think there will be a point in which you can move help them move on to the next step by the way therapy can be very helpful in these matters too you know obviously our values are torah values but but sometimes we need mental health professionals to help people through bereavements or through other types of tragedies to sexual abuse uh certainly uh i know people get in trouble for this i mean um you know when we have let's say victims of sexual abuse which can be absolutely devastating i mean there's no question and i you know i don't want to deny that i affirm that this can be devastating but at some point even a victim has to ask themselves are they defining their life and this is where people do get in trouble including me are they defining their life as a perpetual victim is that kind of going to be the meaning of the rest of their lives or will they be able to extract a higher meaning from everything they've been through maybe to become an advocate or whatever it would be so as i as i say there is no guarantee that you or any other rabbi or teacher is going to be successful in this but i think it's a process that does have at least a chance of being successful but you've got to give it time and you can't rush it uh you just have to let the process go through the normal psychological uh undercurrents that it will go through and sometimes sometimes that's a challenge for those people in their lives who want to help like you mentioned it's harder for them to see that somebody close to them is not getting up already it's been a year it's been two years let's go so sometimes you mentioned therapy sometimes they you know the healthy one could go to therapy yep it takes no you're you're 100 correct it takes a certain amount of mental health to go into therapy you're correct when somebody is in the throes of depression or despair they literally don't have the energy or the motivation to move on to the next step but in truth we have the other famous teaching of both the rambam and the and the sabra of adam niffal to south which means instead of looking at our actions as the outgoing of our emotional states our actions can educate our emotional states meaning sometimes the idea is do and then you will feel in marriage counseling we sometimes tell a person if you're not feeling loving toward your spouse act as if and the love may come sometimes there is the notion of get out of bed go to work go to the park go to the museum i know you'll hate it it'll do nothing for you you'll just feel worse over time those actions can have a bit of a helping and a calming effect on us so that's another thing to remember as well uh that a person has to sometimes do things that do not correspond to their inner emotional state because this will help them reach that state at some point right so here's here's another question that somebody sent in we've been taught that life is like a play a theater everyone is given a role to play and whatever's supposed to happen whatever's supposed to happen to us will happen and the people in our lives are just like it's just like puppets i am having trouble with that view while i'm trying my best to live a meaningful third life but i have these puppets that seem like they're really trying to take me down what are some ways i could refocus myself and stay calm when another light storm seems to come my way yeah yeah well um you know uh everyone knows the famous uh song uh based on words of ravenclaw breslov that the whole world called olympulo get your charm the oath the whole world is like a narrow bridge the low the fight club and the most important thing is don't be afraid you know it is a jungle out there you need to say every single interaction is front with dangers there are things that can destroy you that can just that can disorient you that can break your spirits and you have to kind of have a moral and spiritual and psychological compass that says i will try to withstand the storm but i do want to say that it's not all bad out there there's a lot of good in the world there are people that are kind there are people that are good there are people that are caring don't despair don't look at yourself as i'm the only voice of sanity in a world of irredeemable evil there are other kindred spirits and we need that says two people are better than one because if one person falls down who's gonna pick him up when you have two people and one falls he is not only talking about ice and snow which is also true he is talking about life there are moments of weakness there are moments in which i give up i fall i falter but if i have a friend that friend can give me strength when i'm weak and i can give that friend strength when they're weak and i think therefore friendship and community are something that we all have to try to find and that can give us that ability to navigate all of those puppets as the questioner said it that are kind of trying to take us away from our goal one shouldn't think the whole world is that way the whole world is not that and you've got to find a little corner of the world where you can be connected to good people because they do exist in fact i would say in reality most people are actually good you know we get sidetracked uh by the experiences of life and uh promotion devera writes that when you confront difficult people try to imagine them as children because at one point in their lives they probably were cute adorable babies no one-year-old two-year-old so at what point did they become these bad people that they are now and if you understand that he was once a cute baby and now he's a rotten adult but moshiach diver says instead of being angry you're going to feel sorry you're going to feel pity you're going to feel compassion what happens to that wonderful little child and the saying in the community psychological community is hurts people hurt people who hurt others or because they were hurt and with that type of understanding i can take insults less personally because i say it's not about me it's about them and if it's about them i can feel sorry for them but they're not going to own my life and they're not going to control my because i can feel compassion instead of anger so these are kind of strategies that i think can help us in this area all right it was beautiful okay you're on i it's just you um i've really enjoyed listening to you and it seems like you've answered a lot of the questions that people have brought i must be on the same wavelength with a lot of them this idea that you know that some of us maybe were born with more challenges than others it's one thing joe was you know a happy-go-lucky guy and that he had was tested with bad luck but what about those of us who may feel that we have like you know the wrong environment born with a dysfunctional situation you know we you know we don't have the privileges or advantages but um i mean is it hard to retain a certain positivity i just want to say that i'm glad that you didn't mention anything about punishment you know because i don't know why bad things happen you know some you know but there are some people maybe feel that way that god just doesn't like me or whatever the reason is there any way to at least block out that kind of thought pattern yeah now yeah yeah yeah again again i mean the question you're raising is is a powerful meaningful question i just want to say that i think even punishment is is often misunderstood there is of course a concept of punishment in the torah you know one cannot deny that punishment in this world punishment to the next world but even then the punishment ultimately comes from love it is corrected one might analogize it to physical therapy let's imagine a person broke their legs and they have to go through therapy now i've seen this myself the person is screaming with pain and the person is begging not to have to walk on these broken legs or whatever it is and it seems to be the most barbaric thing to make them go through this and yes this is the therapy that will enable them to resume function i think divine punishment is a spiritual therapy in the same way of physical therapy god does not punish because he's vindictive god does not punish because he hates god does not punish because he doesn't like you but god decides through his inscrutable wisdom that we need this certain purification of our soul to be able to be rehabilitated so look at punishment even gehenna as essentially spiritual rehabilitation to prepare our souls to be purified and connected with god i think that's a very important point because there's all the difference in the world between an abusive person that simply beats you and a loving parent that disciplines you to bring you to a better place and the torah itself says that god's chastisements to the jewish people as difficult as they are is like the chastisements of a father of a parent to a child right so that's a very very important orientation uh to have now the notion of different people are born into different circumstances which is a very interesting one you know uh obviously i teach in orthodontics and most of our tomatoes not all of them are people who are bali chuba and one of the things when you come to a city like ushalaya and i experience this myself is you know you meet rabbis and families that are a hundred generations of rabbanim and the six-year-old kid knows that knows more gamora than we know whatever it would be and we often get an inferiority complex and we feel second rate because we just were not born into that environment but one of the things you need to know is that if the 10th generation you show me has many gifts that we don't have the guy that comes from south dakota or montana has gifts that the mayo showroom person doesn't have if hashem put our nisham in a certain environment there are things we get from that environment that we otherwise wouldn't have gotten and that's why i tell people when they're bali chuva they should not cut themselves off from their past but they should try to reclaim from their best that which is valuable and good uh an example i give although it's not quite about suga was of nathan's fee finkel the queen of the great rosh yeshiva of mir everyone knows the story he grew up in chicago he went to a co-ed school he was on the basketball team now when he became a great rush of shiva he did not make believe he didn't have that life he remembered that life and that was the basis of how he connected to american kids by telling them that you can do all of these things and you can still become great in torah and serve hashem that is what rafael rachel calls not the chuva of amputating the past but the chuva of reclaiming your past and taking the positives from it that's that's a very important idea that i take my experiences and i build the foundation of my life from those experiences okay okay you're on the phone you're on okay sean another bride with um i have a question about uh the general questions you can please clarify i'm being i'm administering um what does it mean to be ahmed when the science someone's going through difficulties obviously mean that he's in a state of ecstasy like you hear about kadai women as if nothing happened or if a person except accepts that he realizes it's russian hashem and he's living he's functioning he's not broken but he's definitely affected and he can't function as if he would if nothing would be going on he can't learn as well it can't happen as well but he's functioning he's learning he's doing he's not broken but he's not in ecstasy he's not it is affecting him is that cool thing i'm into saying well he's not there yet yeah no so yeah again a good question and i i would say that omega has many many many madregas just like robinayana says chuva has infinite madregos omega it might be that the very very highest level is to mamish have uh the simcha to hilu it didn't happen on the other hand i don't think atari sparkle expects that of every person not every person maybe hasn't invited to reach that level and i think that if a person can still function and if a person can still see the positives in their lives and they do mitzvahs and they learn i i think that's a very high madrega they should be happy with that meaning to say they shouldn't get depressed because they're not only been italian i mean in a way that becomes a depression not a depression but don't be too hard on yourself i mean uh if a person is able to keep on going that's a great muttering that is a tremendous ring and by the way that is a great lesson to to one's children if one's children see that their parent is going through difficult times but still manages to learn to dive in to do mitzvos to be a good father and a good husband that's a real real important beautiful lesson that your children are learning from that so one should not be too hard on themselves if they haven't reached the absolute highest level hashem does not expect everybody to reach the highest possible levels all right i want to jump on this question um hashem keeps on sending me different wake-up calls i am not sure what hashem wants me how do i go about figuring out what hashem a person goes to and go through things how does he know what he has to work on yeah well that's a real question you know the villenegon writes that in the uh time of the base on nicknash when we had nabua really the viktor sri shown and only the beginning of the mix of so you know we think that the vm we're always giving national messages they were giving messages to claudius the villain said the vm were also private uh therapists so to speak you could go to a nubbing and you could say what is my mission what is my calculus what is my goal mama would tell you exactly how pr what you need to work on unfortunately today uh we don't have nagua uh today uh anyone that claims to be a navi is either a sheikah or a katan so by definition we're struggling in the dark and you know uh we never know what the messages really are in fact i'll give you a very practical example let's assume you have a project that you think is a good project and you find all sorts of obstacles every time you're trying to get it further advanced something happens now sometimes that means it's a similar ministry not to pursue it and sometimes it means it's such a wonderful thing that the citra accra is putting all these difficulties in your path and therefore the more obstacles you have is araya that you're supposed to present now these are two opposite interpretations how do i know what it means in any given in any given situation so number one this is why you need a rabbit well or clever uh this is why you need to be miss powell for a tahini that the ability to give you clarity they also bring a uh in the name of a kind belgium that if a person is not sure which way they should move in life they should learn for an hour without interruption and then whatever makshava falls in their head is a ruach because the villain says everybody has is blocked by the static of taiwas and yetzer haras so you kind of purify yourself a little bit and then you're able to receive a divine message but at the end of the day you're 100 correct there is a lot of trial and error in that process you know we try something sometimes it's not the right mahalis then we have to move to something else so you do need to be flexible and you do need to pivot uh in your spiritual life okay roberto a few more questions okay you're good yeah okay you're on a mute press star six there you go [Music] the same you know it's not the same russell so the more it says that you have to be traveled with simcoe but the question the question is i mean a person when a person when things bad happen the person should be dancing and whenever something good happens the person suppose you know the person supposed to it's supposed to be very simple it's like so like like when like when something good happens he makes us i'm saying you don't you don't hear about people making sudas and something that happens so what does he want to mean that kashem the same way as somebody's good the prisoner supposed to thank hashem son's men and the more it says through the simpsons how do you relate to such a thing yeah yeah again it's a very good question uh let me point out as i said before that unlike buddhism that basically denies the reality of suffering either recognizing the reality of suffering we have hilco bayless we have zamanim we have tish above coming up where we're naive with all of the hammachers of our bayless and indeed let me point out that you know the breakfasts are different in other words if if we were to simply say that all evil is ultimately good then you might as well make a tobah negative entrepreneurs like why is there even a difference so i think the havana has to be that when the gemara says you have to be macabre itself is a spectrum of how you express it there is the symbol of dancing on the table and making a big sugar and then there's the symbol which coexists with a certain sadness which i understand that even though this is a sad thing for me there's an ultimate purpose and an ultimate good and an ultimate talent and that can give me which means when the gemara says both for the tithe and for the ra you have to be macabre in both there is an emotion of symptom but the expression of sinful is going to differ between the two the gemara does not mean you express and even feel the simcha in exactly the same way one is the active somehow the other is the more quiet syndra of gam zuluteva call mati avid and uh as they say because otherwise uh why have two you scribes right and why have your surveillance so i think you have to redefine simcha as a spectrum of different types of emotional expressiveness let's go to the next live question you're on um okay thank you so much i just wanted to ask one question um throughout this safer um it seems like i'm talking about the safer super ear so throughout the season it seems like there's a spotlight on eo specifically with his struggles and the many most of the lessons that we learn come from how eo responds and you know how a person should respond when they are in that situation of challenge i'm just wondering because so many times people i think we find ourselves in a situation that the challenge for us could be potentially watching another person go through a challenge that they are you know the in the spotlight of that challenge and being a person that's close to them a person that loves them very much not so much where can we get guidance as to how to support them or help them through that but rather my question is how can a person in that sidelines type of role um i guess learn like how to make their own pain a purposeful i guess their own pain and their own that challenge of their own uh purposeful um can you hear me yeah a purposeful experience and grow through that on a personal level you know you know your question is very interesting one because the truth of the matter is although you are correct that the bulk of safer ev is dealing with eo's suffering and how he responds to it many have said that at least a secondary thing is how do you be a good friend how do you be a caregiver how do you be a person who gives comfort and when hashem says at the end of the book that eo's friends are wrong you're right deal that your friends are wrong it doesn't just mean that they're wrong on the fact that they called him a sinner but they're wrong that they did not uh they did not do what caregivers and what friends are supposed to do they did not show him compassion they did not show him rakhim him they did not show him empathy in many ways you can look at the book of eve as a manual as to how to be a friend and how to be a comforter when somebody you love and care about is going through a a difficult time uh in many many ways uh to be a friend under these circumstances is very much of a daunting challenge uh in some ways uh the pain that your loved one is suffering might even hurt you on some level even more uh then it's hurting them because they might have coping strategies but you cannot bear them to suffer an example would be uh god forbid if somebody's child is suffering the parents agmasnefesh might even be worse than what the child himself is is going through uh but again i'll repeat what i said uh the issue here is empathy the issue is love the issue is to communicate the person is not alone that you're with them you will hold their hand through this journey just as hashem is holding their hands uh through this journey and it's very very hard because sometimes you will be depleted you will be exhausted you will be irritable you will be angry i remember seeing once on a pbs special it was unbelievable but i i understand it in which a husband was very sick with cancer and he wasn't getting better and his wife actually shook him in anger and said why aren't you getting better you're quite amazing talk about blaming the victim and yes that's the way it is so the caregivers the loving friends do have to sometimes take time for themselves to recharge their batteries and that's why we sometimes need resources for caregivers or whatever it would be to take off but ultimately it's the empathy and the sense of not being alone that's going to be the biggest help that you can give to the people that are struggling more degraded graduates okay let's jump on this question a tough question i've been married for almost 10 years my wife and i have not been to have children as of yet the doctors seem to have a bleak outlook i'm still trying to be happy from time to time but looking at the entry tables seeing all my friends and families living a meaningful life it's almost impossible to have any symptom i need some physique and understanding this pain and suffering that was sent especially to me yeah yeah this is this is of course a very very big source of ahmad for any married couple and i think for religious for jewish religious people it's even more so we have the mitzvah of and even things like who will say kaddish after me these are things that we think about and you know not having children can be a tremendous tremendous pain um first of all i want to point out and i'm sure you're aware of this but just to be sure that there are wonderful jewish organizations uh a time in particular which has a website a time which deals with giving as well as practical advice and medical advice regarding infertility uh and and and the like and by all means if you kind of have other people that share this nissan and share this challenge and share this difficulty you can get physic from each other sometimes in fact most times people who don't have the difficulty are not necessarily able to give the same visa as people who are going through this together so if you haven't yet connected to a time i would strongly uh encourage you uh to do so uh the second issue is to consider things like adoption um my own my wife and i's our own child is an adopted child and i can tell you that uh we love him indistinguishably from a biological a child but the third point to keep in mind is that you have to understand that the relationship of a husband and wife is a holy sacred cuddish relationship it's not just as a means to have children yes having children is very important and it's a great blessing but you have to know that you are building a place for the shekinah with your wife that this is a relationship of holiness a relationship of sanctity the archaedas yitzchak says the safer arcade of it says that when yaakov was angry at rocco remember rocco said to yaakov if i don't have children i want to die so yaakov said oh am i in place of hashem who didn't give you kids which is a very very harsh remark i have kids it's you that have problems so the meadow says is this how you answer a woman in distress it's a big catcher but the arcadis yitzhak says that what is getting yaakov upset is his love for raqqa because if rachel says without children i might as well die she's saying there is no purpose in our relationship except children well what about us what about husband and wife so in some ways i don't want to say it's a gift i mean everything is a gift but i understand for me to tell you that would not sound right but in some ways this is a chance to develop a closeness an intimacy a relationship that might be even deeper and deeper and deeper so everything has its brothers right the children are tremendous problems and this can be abraca in terms of the closeness that you create and as i say by all means try to consider adoption uh or even financially to support uh children and for their enough to pay for their education because i'll say you're my goddamn you're a god holy person an orphan he said if you gave birth to them you're begotten a person to teach them torah it's as if you gave birth to them so there are many many ways in which you could still be a father and remember the haftarah that we read the minds of every kindness seibert we read it we read it shiva sarvathamas we're going to read it the minh the saris the one without children says i am an atheist i am like a dry tree and hashem speaks to the sorry sin who don't have children and he says i will give you a yad vashem i will give you a thing to hold on to told me will be my nose it's a puzzle better than sons and daughters because you will be a servant of hashem and your mitzvoth will be your sons and your daughters that will be there for you when you go to allah so this is a very very difficult messiah and hashem may you and your wife be blessed with many healthy children but at the same time look at your life even now as abraham because there's much in it that's blessed there are so many people who don't have shithu they don't have a spouse hashem you have a wife you have a place where the shakina comes in and be cognizant of that and cherish it and appreciate it okay everybody someone have one more live question the person who's gonna let me know but i wanna i want my last question i'm gonna ask for tonight um a lot of people texted similar questions i'm gonna try to encompass and then we'll go to closing is that okay yeah okay so i'm gonna ask the question but i'm gonna throw in all the people that are texting me people are texting me how do we understand hashem when there's children are molested how do we understand the shaman the holocaust and all these questions but the question i'm going to put it all together is how do we understand all the tragedies in the world that we've been going through you see all these terrible disasters whether it's surface children dying children being molested children people now you know all these different stories how do i how should i cope with such strategies and it really affects my moon and hashem what could i do to be much of myself when i deal with these unbelievable difficult you know types of votes yeah yeah you know once again as i said at the very beginning of my remarks uh on an emotional level it's going to be very hard to give on answer that will satisfy us let me mention another point which i did not bring out earlier that is hashem did create a world of hashem gave human beings the ability to choose good and choose evil and as the rambam writes if we were predetermined to be righteous or evil then how could god hold it accountable for evil and why should we deserve reward for righteousness for just computers that are programmed to act a certain way so the whole predicate of accountability as well as reward is based on bahira now the problem is when you create a world based on bashira that does mean that human beings can choose to do evil because you can't have a fever world where the only choice you can do is choose good because that wouldn't be bashima that would be like the old elections in the soviet union where there's only one candidate on the ballot and he always won by a landslide now that's not that's not a choice so in a sense if you accept the idea and this again this is kind of different than things i was saying before that goodness can exist only when there's a capacity to choose evil then in some ways evil is a necessary evil for there to be good so if you think about it in a lot of the examples that you get we're not dealing with cancer tsunamis we're not dealing with acts of god we're dealing with volitional bahira done by people who made choices to do evil so even with the holocaust you know instead of saying oh the holocaust meant god you know killed six million jews is it god that directly did it or did god enable human beings to make choices meaning the rabbi suggests at one point that evil that is predicated on human choice is not really god's issue at all god allows for shiva because in the long run bakira facilitates optimal good in the short run basira will allow many many destructive and evil acts now again uh this is a big big machokas between the orachyam and the khaibasalavavas and even the urachaem there are many interpretations the arakayam actually does say that the power of bashira can override god's decree because god made a world in which bashira can harm even innocent undeserving people because that's the fallout of human behemoth says no one says nothing happens to a person unless god specifically decreed it and some consider this even heretical even though the arachim says it and the like but the point is in my long-winded way part of what i'm saying is that sometimes we do have to differentiate between tragedies that happen and tragedies that happen because of human volitional because that is the world of bakira in fact many have said that the holocaust tells us much more about human beings capacity than it does about god instead of asking where was god in auschwitz you could ask where was man at auschwitz what does it tell me about human beings beautiful writers okay all the people that are waiting to ask live questions i'm going to we're going to end now right away i'm going to come back again this session thank you okay so we're going to closing and uh then you'll go let me just wrap it up quickly again i regret when brad was waking up 4 20 in the morning and really giving us over two hours of time and it was it was really really powerful tonight uh aggressive subscribers there was over twelve thirteen hundred people here tonight they must send thousands of thousands we'll listen to it later and again everybody should know where writers has a weekly q a where he asks ants ass is asked anything from eight out of ten is tough so um please listen to this podcast that's uh you could probably search it but we'll put in the email with the links um again tonight's show is sponsored by moises hattorio delinden we're doing a raffle this week for uh for our house in linden new jersey they're building a view a new beautiful jewish community so please try to help to build them up at sadaka and uh the selling raffle tickets and to win a beautiful house you'll be part of the neighborhood uh management post on the link the the the link for the for the raffle i'm gonna also email it out and please try to um be my kazakh this is this new jewish community again thank you everybody for coming on at the end we'll go get back to the gematria like the kim echoed hashem is one right and i think after tonight's cheer we talked about it was it was unbelievable brighter which was really really unbelievable again if anybody wants to get the the the flyers every sunday please what's at me at 848.525.0066 you can go to manakhanburnfly.com everybody wants to know where the where this share is going to be listen you can hear it later it's going to be on youtube it's going to be on spotify it's going to be an apple podcast it's going to be on colossians it's going to be on our phone number i'll say it in a minute and make sure i'll send it to rob ryder so put on tour anytime we'll send it around and uh please listen to it anytime you feel down just listen to it again and again remember again if anybody's here the first time every sunday night at 9 30 on this zoom id the unbelievable shirim and different abandoned therapists different topics next sunday like i said in the beginning either way there'll be no the no share whether comes and we're not going to be available or they'll be tissue above so we won't be available so the next show will be much from august 14th we're able to capital from right to trial also from our topic will be my husband my king my wife my queen taking our marriage to the next level i think we all could use always because of control and bias so please join it should be unbelievable we wrote many many books on shawn by us from bill kaplan everything is recorded mitchell we'll be on monacomv.com if anybody has any questions please email coach menachem gmail.com we'll send everything to rabbi bradowicz if anybody has any questions or provide us when he has time again tonight's share is 111. it'll be recorded if you want to listen to it on the phone the number is eight four eight seven seven seven grow that's eight four eight seven seven seven g r o w and uh thank you to all the advertising sponsors liquid school program from five town central and kyla california from jc and the jewish content network again right right so i want to give you a question coming on and we're going to go to closing now first of all graduates just before you go give us a good takeaway we wrap up the tonight's physique with so many people but coach venatum you go first the first i want to thank you everybody with for the physic for hashem and i do want to mention that when people go through you know whatever challenge they're going through whether it's big or small like we mentioned many times when you're in your challenge it's real and uh it's a challenge and sometimes it's hard to hear what we're discussing but especially by us us humans we want to see change we want to grow we want to be out of that place of discomfort we it's a place you're sitting where you don't like you don't enjoy it you want to you want to make sense out of it it just doesn't make sense and to sit in such a place is just not made for us and we truly try to run and fix and um figure out so yes we did learn some skills which will help but ultimately like we heard last week from representing many times there's nothing you can do to change it you're in a situation where it is what it is and there's really nothing you can do and he mentioned as as a friend or a family member the only thing you can do is to be there for them don't turn your back just be there there's nothing you can say and that sometimes even the person itself going through depression or sitting in that place thinking that life is just not working for me it's not working this is not where i want to be so that itself you want to get out of you you're not happy you can't sit there that itself can cause more anxiety i want to get out of here but to be able to sit with yourself and understand like we heard tonight it's the challenge and it's a it's in the sign and it doesn't mean you have to get out it means you be there and do whatever you can and it's it's a slow process it takes time and many times it's committee it's a harder if you feel discouraged saying okay it's not working it's over and the itahara just wants you to stop that's it so all you have to tell yourself is listen i don't like where i am i am discouraged but i'll do whatever i can and if it's very minimum very small small steps that's it i'm not trying to get out of it but i'm not giving up all the it's our wants is to give up say it's over i can't continue so thank you very much everybody for giving us the physic and admits hashem we should be able to get out of whoever we are everybody in their challenge whether it's big or small and with that with that we shall discuss two questions before the close i have two questions for you okay number one what do you say when so many hundreds of people thousand will come together every sunday night to get physical what is it what is it what is it what does that say hashem well first of all uh the banished islam gets tremendous tremendous nakas from yidden who in fact there's a metro which we're going to read some people will read on teach about that says when the goulash lama finally comes hashem will look at on the israel and look at all that we've suffered as a nation and all that we've gone through as individuals and hashem is going to say i don't know how they did it so the fact that people and many of you i know i seem to be struggling with with amish issues these are not just academic questions the fact that you care enough and you're miming enough to try to get frieza to try to get better to try to work this out to try to walk forward as difficult as it is barakal gets tremendous and pride from all of your struggles and you need to know that he's crying with you he's weeping with you in your suffering emo anoshi second second request and then you go to closing to wrap it up can you give everybody a broccoli tonight that we should get the physique that we need to go through the challenge that we're going through again i i hope that all of you will find an inner joy in your life and appreciation in your life feel the presence of hashem even in your difficulties may you see the light even in the darkness desire calls the black lights and may that black light become a shining radiant light that you'll be able to go forward amen right just want to give a closing yeah i'd like to end with a little story those of you that are in the music world may have heard of a great very gifted classical pianist leon fleischer again a jewish man although not an observant one and he was a very very famous pianist in the 50s and 60s and 70s and then somehow in the 1970s because he was so obsessively practicing he had very serious carpal tunnel syndrome that could not be addressed and as a result he had to give up playing piano professionally now you might look at that as a minor thing but for him music was his life and he literally was on the verge of suicide he wanted to kill himself but eventually he redefined his life and he became a very gifted teacher of piano so although he couldn't play he could instruct people how to play and a whole generation of pianists were his tummy i happened to meet some people who became bali chuba who were proteges of leon fleischer after being a very successful teacher for 25 years his wife had read that there was some new treatment in japan to some deep tissue massage that could give her restoration of function she wanted her husband to try it he didn't want to do it because he said you know i've gotten used to being a teacher if you're going to give me hope that i could play again and it doesn't work i'm going to be so sobrock and i might convince you with that i don't even want to try it but she pushed him and he tried it and lo and behold it worked and he was able to play for five more years eventually he came back with five years of playing and because he was a teacher for all those years uh he was able to play at a very high level now that's a nice story but the reason i'm sharing the story is he gave a little muster schmooze at the end and he said why did god take away my talent for 25 years he said because when i was the you know the best pianist in the world my life was about me it was about my ego my cover my honor god wanted me to learn to care about others god wanted me to learn to reach out to others to be less egotistical so he took away my talent and he forced me to care about others that their successes i cherished more than my successes and their failures hurt me more than my failures and i changed and i became a person who cared about others and then hashem said you learned your lesson i'll give you your talent back i took it away for a reason and you'll get it now this is a neat ending although it took 25 years we don't always see that ending but i think the idea of self-transformation is fundamental in this area you know davina malek says in bismarck your stick and your staff speaking to hashem they give me comfort what is the difference between a stick and a staff so it is sending them a fortune a stick is what you get hit with and a staff is what supports you as your olympic sometimes hashem gives us a stick and sometimes he gives us a stare but says as long as i know it's from hashem i know it's good and it'll give me comfort even the shame it will give me comfort when i know it's from you because it's for my good and finally the famous puzzlic which is word for the balchemthough i declare your loving kindness in the morning and your faithfulness at night the balshemptoev says day and night refers to different parts of our lives there are parts of our lives that are daytime joyous happy bright full of light and then i can see the loving kindness of god in the bokeh of my life but then there are moments in life which are dark hopeless full of despair it's hard for me to see my faith in you will sustain me even in the dark moments [Music] so my brother is that all of you should have that emotion in the dark moments but ultimately hashem should take you from the dark moments to the bokeh in which all of us will feel the sesame park for me from thank you for watching thank you all for coming have an easy tissue bob we'll see you in access troll if not august 14th turns up kaplan robert carlton be well yeah