The Steipler on the Machlokes Ran & Rashba If Issur Hana'ah Automatically Makes Hefker

Okay, good afternoon everyone. We have an amazing topic today on the Nedarim Daf page Amud Aleph. The Gemara said in order to reconcile this Tira on the Mishnah on page Gimel Amud Bet. Rava said really Tivas Hana Mamain. And that's why if you say I asked her these Kohanim, you can't give [clears throat] them Terumah Ma'aser. You have to give it to others. So why if you asked her all Kohanim Levi'im, could they take it against your will? Because once you asked her them, there's no one to give it to. Once there's no one to give it to, so there's no it has no value. So it's Hefker. Once it's Hefker, they could take it. The Lashon of the Gemara is Mishum De'Terumah Lo Chazya Ela Le'Kohanim. U'Keivan De'Ka Asri Le'Misra Alaihu, Shavya Afker Be'Alma. Since you're asking it to them, it becomes like dirt. The Ran then quotes the Rashba. This is the Ran on the second wide lines. We didn't read this inside because this is this is not an Igaya the Shat of the Gemara, but the the Ran brings from the Rashba an amazing idea. What would the Halacha be if you asked her fruits on yourself? Let's say you say, "These fruits are asked her to me." Okay. Well, wait a second. If they're asked her to you, then nobody should be able to come and take them. I'm sorry, if they're asked her to you, then they have no value. If they have no value, then people should come into your house be able to come into your house and take them from you. The Ran brings from this Gemara we learn that if you asked her fruits on yourself, others could come and take it from you against your will. And you can't do anything about it. Because there's no reason that there's no there's no ownership that you have that you should be able to prevent them from taking it. What prevents people from taking your possessions is your ownership of it. But if you relinquish ownership, then they should be able to come and take it. And the Ran says they are, and there's nothing you could do about it. I You could be matter your nether after Pesach and after Yom Kippur and after even though you could be matter your nether, even though you could be matter your nether, in the meantime in the interim, you didn't you weren't mattered yet. What would the halacha be if you render you say my possessions are also to me. Someone came along and he then took them. And then you were mattered on your nether. What would the halacha be if afterwards you were mattered on your nether? What would the halacha be? Could do they have to pay you back? In other words, what would the halacha be if they What would the halacha be if the uh you rendered your fruits also What would the halacha be if you rendered your fruits also to you? And then somebody came and took them, which they're allowed to. And then you were matter your nether. So could that could you now take your fruits back? Says the Ran in the name of the Rashba, "Mihu heicha de it'shal?" If you're matter on your nether, "Chayav in leshalem." The person would have to pay you back. Why? "De chiva de chacham oiker a nether meikarai since the chacham is oiker the nether from the beginning." "Chiva de it'shal chavin lehu hana piri kiilu lai it's ralei me oilam." With the chacham is matter nether from the beginning, so if you're matter the nether, it's like it never became also to you. So listen to this amazing chidush of the Rashba. The Rashba says from this Gemara you see if you also your fruits to yourself, somebody could come along and take them from you. Because since they're hefker, they're ownerless, and therefore somebody could come along and take it from you. However, you could be matter it. And if you're matter it, then the Rashba says the person would have to pay you back because since the okay another may eat curry, it's like it was never also to begin with. The run on the last narrow line says I'm not so sure about this Rashba. The mystic beside I'm a soup pick about this. Why? The fish sauce have carry cuz from the moment you assert it on yourself, it then became hefker. The other guy, if someone else is like kind of he's kind of cuz I come in a hefker like someone who's like from hefker. The alpha pitcher is a lot even though the prohibition that you made it also to you left when you're a matter, but Kenyan my money shows that in a bottle. The the other person's Kenyan my money wasn't off nullified. She ain't no might say she ain't no the hefker. Being martial on another doesn't remove it from hefker. So we have an amazing between the Rashba and the run. The Rashba says if you ask her fruits to yourself, someone could take it. And if he takes it, if you're matter another, he has to give it back. The run says not so fast. Just because I'm out there another, that just removes my issue to the fruits, but it doesn't remove his Kenyan my money. So the stippler wants to know what exactly is this like us Rashba and run. By being matter another, does it remove the issue as well as the hefker and the person has to pay you back or no, it only removes the the issue and not the hefker. If you remember we had on DAF MEM ZAYIN the following case. On DAF MEM ZAYIN, what's the halacha if you aser fruits on yourself and then the person dies? Let's say I say these fruits are aser to me. I can't get benefit from them. The RAN says, but still your children inherit them. You're still the ba'al em and your children get it. The RAZHBA on BAVA KAMA DAF KUF TET says, if you aser the fruits, your ba'alus leaves. They're not yours because you can't be hana'ah from them. Comes the the Steipler, we'll see in a moment, and the Steipler says, the RAN and the RAZHBA are le shita se. Why does the RAN say that if you if you make fruits aser to yourself, your children inherit it? The RAN holds that iser doesn't automatically make something hefker. Just because something is aser to you, it doesn't mean it doesn't mean it's hefker. Therefore, the RAN says, it's only hefker if you want it to be hefker. Iser is not automatically doesn't automatically make something hefker. The RAZHBA says, no, if your fruits are aser to you, you're not an owner and your children don't inherit it. You see this machlokes over here? The RAN says, if you aser fruits on yourself, the fruits are aser to you, but you're still the ba'al em and therefore your children inherit it. The RAZHBA says, if they're aser to you, you're no longer the ba'al em. The RAZHBA holds iser and hefker are synonymous. The Ran says, "No, they're not. Just because they're assur to you, it doesn't mean they're ownerless." Says the Steipler, coming back to our Gemara on daf peh hey, coming back to our Gemara, if you assur fruits to Kohanim, all the Kohanim in the world, if you assur terumah, so if I assur terumah, so then, according to the Rashba, it's automatically hefker. Since it's assur, it's automatically hefker. But, if I'm matter the neder and the issur is off, it's not hefker anymore. Issur, hefker, and issur go hand in hand. When they were assur, it's hefker. When I'm matter, it's not hefker and he has to pay me back. According to the Ran, issur and hefker are not synonymous. Uh they're the fruit is assur to me. Once it's assur to me, so I am mafkir it. What about if it's no longer assur to me? So, according to the Ran, he holds even though the neder is oker l'mafria, that's very nice, but hefker is a separate din. Hefker is not the mamela result of issur. Hefker is a decision I make based on the fact that it's assur. And just because I was mashal on the issur, I was never mashal on the hefker. Let's see if we could get this from the words of the Steipler inside. Let's try this. Mhm. >> The stippler is found in Kilauea from Masada and Adam. Simon llama base Look over here. Look where my icon is. Even if you're not there you're not there the neck guy in my prayer. I know mission that I'll call upon him have the show the owners were not when they asked her to ask them. And there's no such thing as Shayla on after after I seen a Shayla. I can cast of an Assyrian by lemon show me men. Or like the receivers wrote that the bottom are or my eyes. The high note the melodic as a love. That is besides the fact that it's awesome. How many have to Besides the fact according to the run it's awesome. After is also how are you yes. But the Raj behold that if you're martial on the net there so then the people who were in it have to pay back. In came with after love me some after by lemon it's not because the owner was not getting it. Do I have to give it back? I'm sorry. It's not because the owner was not getting it. I'm allowed to keep it. Cuz if it was because you were not getting it then even if you're not there the net there you were not getting it. I should be allowed to keep it. It's because there's a then it's remove your by less. So if there's no your by less is back. My name according to the run it's not that it's remove your by less. It's that when the owner can't get it. I know he is not getting it. So even though he is not there the but there's no way to retract the fact that he was matter. But according to the Raj but it's the issue that automatically it triggers the hefker. So, the reason why if the person is usser he gives it his children inherit meaning like this The run holds that if you usser your fruits, your children inherit. The Raj says your children don't inherit. According to the Raj, your children don't inherit because the issue removes the bylist. According to the run, no. It's when it's usser I relinquish my ownership. According to the Raj, but it's not me then yesh. It's because the issue makes it not his. According to the run it's not that the issue makes it ownerless, it's that when there's an issue now there's like an owner that he no longer wants to be the owner. Since he can't benefit from it, but that's by trauma. But not in terms of it going to his children. Again, what the stippler is saying is that the mark like us the run and the Raj but the run says if you're matter another then if somebody took the produce they have to pay back. According to the Raj but they do not have to pay back. The Rajba says, "I'm sorry." The Rajba says they have to pay back. Why do they have to pay back? According to the Rajba, it's the Issur Hana'ah which triggers an automatic Hefker. And when the Issur Hana'ah is removed, so then there was never Hefker to begin with. According to the Rajba, it's not that we say the guy was Mafker it, it's that the Issur Hana'ah removes his by loss. So if we're able to remove that Issur Hana'ah, the by loss is still there. According to the Ran, it's a two-step process. That's the reason why according to the Ran, the children could inherit. But according to the Rajba, the children don't inherit because the Issur Hana'ah automatically removes the by loss. Okay, this is the Steipler in Perek Lamed Bais who explains the Machlokes Rajba and Ran by whether you need to pay back Issur Hana'ah. If the guy was Mater his Neder, and he makes it totally on whether there is by loss to inherit to your children in a case where somebody Assered his fruits. Have a great day, everyone. >> So but by the case of the Kohanim and Levi'im, if the by loss is Mater the Neder, the Kohen has to pay back? Does he have to pay back the full amount or does he just pay back the Ta'avas Hana'ah? >> Oh, you mean let's say the the guy was Mater and then the Kohen took it. So again, according to the Ran, for sure there's nothing to pay back. >> Right. >> According to the Rajba that you have to pay back, we're saying really Ta'avas Hana'ah Mamain. So you're saying that would depend on what we learned last week, right? Al Achaira, how do you calculate tova sana? Is it the small amount or is it the full ownership? That would be dependent on, you know, the two views we saw in Rashi, whether it's valued at how much of a bribe you could take or is it valued based on the whole thing Lecheira, right? That's a good shilo according I mean the Rashba is talking about if somebody answered fruits and then someone else came along and took it. So in this case you want to know let's say he was mucked there's none there does the coin have to pay it? Lecheira he has to pay tova sana and depending on how you evaluate tova sana, that's how much you would have to pay. >> Skyler >> Skyler have a good day. Call to everyone. >> Recording stopped.