The Sensitive Mission to Russia to Save the Seforim

the collection in Russia was called in in the city of Lubavitch In The House of the rabbis generation after generation till the first world war when the Germans came closer to the city of Lubavitch they took it out from there in 35 large crates and send it to a day train to Moscow to a storage house or from one of their silim and it was kept there till after the war after the war the previous tribe wanted to take it out from there so the German the authorities didn't let him and they took it away to the public library in Moscow then was called umiansov so since then it is there it was taken over to the library in 1924 and since there since then it is kept in the library for several years the previous driver tied his best to secure their petal in always from inside and from government for governments outside it didn't help till the very difficult period of 1936 where for just talking about it it was you would get killed so they stopped doing that that's how it was left till 1941-81 in 1981 was after I started working here so I got a hold of the a copy of the catalog of the collection that was cataloged in Lubavitch before taking it away to the storage so with that catalog we knew what we have there so we wanted to ask them to return that but there wasn't a paper printed in the stories that it was taken away from the library and given to day of section the Jewish section of the Communist party and they took it away to Kiev their Library so we didn't know if that is correct or not if they took it away then there is nothing left in Moscow but if they didn't take it awakened with their reporting the paper is false then it is still in Moscow so according to this catalog we could find that out so in Spring of 1981 I sent in a copy to the river and I asked him if it worthwhile to try to secure their return just like the collection that was in Poland Paula decided to return it to us so maybe they would do it too so he kept it for a few months and then middle of the summer he approached rabbit cunan telling him that in Los Angeles there is Dr Hammer and Weintraub that are have deals with the government of Russia so maybe they could get them to return it and that's when it started we went in 1988. it was since 1981 till 1987 years so first they spoke to them Dr Hammer and they answered them they don't know of anything of Lubavitch collection so then I gave a copy to for Dr Hammer to give it to the government that you have the list of the books so they then they could try to find out where that collection is so they kept it kept it for another year or two and they said it could find anything so then drama suggested them did you will that the allegation of the experts of the lavish library in New York should counter check for it themselves so it's a pleasure and that's when we got the Visas the official visas by the government to invitation to invite us to come to look for the books we came there it was delegation of three Union Army and Rabbi Mendel who was one of the second president but he spoke Russian it was easier for us so when we came there they just didn't let us go to the storage of the books and they just say look in the catalog so I said I can recognize the book but I can't recognize in the book according to the catalog so they said no you can't go to the books only to the catalog so we love the fight here to the rabbit through the second task that they don't let us go to the books so the review answered we should try to go up to according to their rules and try to go to the catalog catalog there was nothing to look for but I did some homework before so every year earlier one of the emissaries of Chabad went there for a book exhibition and I gave him a list of the 20 most rare books of that of our list he should check in the catalog the regular catalog if it's there and if he finds there so he should write down on each one the number and the shelf and where it is so we found 12 books on the game came back and gave me the list so I know the 12 books of the collection are there and you know for sure that if you have 12 real books in one collection and again so you know that the collection is there so after they didn't permit us so when we met with the second with their librarian so I told them you know what if I can't go to the collection try to find for us if you have these 12 books so he took the list and next morning he says yes I give good news for you we found it and this I asked him where are they in the same collection or the separate collections she says no they're all the same collection so for myself I know that we are on the right track so we went to the reading room of that collection and we're waiting half an hour till they bought us out the books or the borders are the books I opened the book I see the handwriting of the red bag up in the second book I said the signature sorry I should public Union you see what it is so it was Friday we have to notify 11 so we want to ride back to the office in those days you couldn't just call and they have a special office so from that office they had a special telephone we called we notified to the secretaries not notified on Friday morning and then that Friday was a real real happy Friday in the river's house the rabbits and called a few [Music] friends to tell them the good news that the library was found that was the first stage but then started the second stage of getting him to return that and that started then and still going again you still didn't return on it and we're still trying to get them to return it so you found them and they acknowledged that they're in the reading room who was in power in Russia at the time and what did you understand the official response was we was working against the head director of the library and the guest the culture Minister Zahara Festival his name was then and they told us that we can't go to the storage only from the catalog and they acknowledged that we have the collection of these books but he didn't let me to see the whole collection they just only those that I have and the least I had this it was enough for us to know that we are in the same collection so we asked what is this collection name they say it's I say I know when your coffee was a rich man in Russia and he was very connected to the laboratory but what does it do what does he have to do with this collection no it was collection his collection what comes out that in those days they didn't want anyone to know that they have a collection of the marriage so they gave it a name to one rich men and they called it his name so we know that when Jacob collection includes the whole collection of Leverage it was the the chief director of the library and the cultural Minister that was playing with us they felt they we could come down they wouldn't let us look for it so we don't let them find nothing they didn't expect me to do for the homework and to know exactly what I'm looking for so when this librarian I gave him 12 books at least of 12 books just to find out if they have it so he found them any product to us he didn't know that the phone page would have handwriting software so it was supposed to be as like kind of a trick because the librarian was very helpful and he didn't know the background the director and the the cultural Minister didn't know what how we're doing but then for a month and in that month we had a lot of till then it was completely closed taking this there Soviet Union we came there as a physical emissaries so we went to a lot of places that may be some material so we went to several cities in Leningrad Petersburg and then in Kiev and never petrovsk and Odessa to look for we didn't find much and turbavic so but at least we will preoccupied for that month we know already when what the library is to secure the return it's not our obligation we can't do nothing Hammer took it over from them and he dealt with the government that always told him yes you know yes but I wasn't um in authorized or able capable to influence the cultural Institute to give us back the books I was just identifying and I went to and then try to identify other materials in other cities so I went with public Union in this cities that I mentioned so so once you've identified them then it's the the revive I guess endorse this idea that Arm and Hammer was somebody who couldn't negotiate yes he tried to negotiate yes just like he did many things during the Cold War it was the only one yes yes so did you have any personal dealings with Arm and Hammer no okay um so then I assume at some point you come back to speak to the revi right and or what was your after after after after after we came we went to all the cities we came back to Moscow I was trying to get interview I appoint appointment with the head of the library to speak to them about it her bikini was forced to go back a day earlier because he had a court case in La about a non-directed not related subject so the driver said I should stay there myself so I stayed there and they told us no they're not they don't want they're not willing to meet me so there was no purpose for me so then I came the next day actually it was the day I came um the eve of several hours before the rabbits and was nostalgic and but we dealt against the culture Minister who was at the half and he says go back we'll we'll make a deal but they meant just go back and they didn't it was no continuation because all efforts of Dr Hammer didn't help much he wrote them several letters and he spoke to them but nothing came out of it till his passing in I think in anyone okay so when did you so I at some point the represent you back right or or some of you back to to deal with Yeltsin later right it wasn't that yeah then there was the Channel story so after the Chernobyl I'll be alone took out many children of the General to take him to Israel and to act to settled them there so the Russian government didn't give the permission for all these children to be Russia so there was a lady a lady who want to come that she helped secure the release of all these hundreds of kids after they came out he said you have a deal Pablo the books I'm sure I can arrange that too come to delegation and will arrange it since was involved with the Chernobyl kids and also having involved with the Chernobyl kids so that's why this tool was added to the interrogation see what since they will dealt with Veronica so then there are wanted us all for to go I didn't really feel that I should go right away because I said to identify identified already to try to influence it's not really my piece of cake I'm a librarian and I can try to identify and find but not so much to influence so maybe I should stay I ought to derivative or maybe I should stay here and when they'll need me for identifying or anything like that I'll come over so he responded you're going together we're done with help so go together with him so I went with them actually there the the all their meetings I went to the meetings with them but I wasn't really the person to try to influence so most of the time I was sitting there in this year we have a shiver there and I gave lectures in this year and whenever they went to a meeting I came out from this year to go with them but main occupation was in the Shiva so that's how it went on for a year and a half part of it was the legal proceeding part of all what we spoke is the little the legal proceeding with that she wanted and we were hesitating and there we told us to do what she says so for this legal procedure we needed the history and details so that again fell on me to prepare all the history of it of the books how it went where it went and that was part of my occupation there too when I thought they needed some details of the past so it had to prepare it so you were sort of scholar in Residence was giving them the background on the on the more or less I was like the scholar because it has to give them the background of everything they needed if it's knowledge about the books or knowledge about the history of the books or knowledge about the history of kebab okay okay well Veronica what was her last name Hulk Hogan she was the lead attorney and she was leading the effort in Russia to get the books back and so were you called in court to speak on this thing things are how is it how did it work with I Was preparing the painters folder Court I don't try Clash inside we used to sit with Veronica house and house I would speak and she would write she asked the questions and I responded it if she needed any documents I would see how to prepare it and that's what mainly my occupation there was with her it was so interesting that when we were forced to come back after I have a year and we went again so we went past all of the other so there we know what everything that's going on there somewhere because there she went first and we came after her so when she went and that gives a blessing and then he points to me does he help you says more than everyone and then and then she said and then she says I speak Russian a little bit so the purposes I know I'm not speaking about International I was thinking about the the mission so she says whatever that that was a discussion that was my responsibility that there to provide documents and both for everything that they needed and whenever they went to a meeting I went with him but that wasn't my part wasn't the tried to influence so much so how did it turn out in court in Russia and what was your experience until until you left in the court the after everything was presented outside and the representative of the culture Minister then it was already in 88 was the half in 91 was kubenko so his representative president at the Davis and finally after a few days he called us again and the judges said that we are right and they should be returned he didn't settle down to the States but he said there was don't talk about then they appealed and then there was Apple that caught we went we went there again I wanted to explain our our view but the judge didn't let us so they had a librarian a rational librarian a Jewish National Liberian that represented our case and they okayed their decision the teacher told her about they didn't speak about it about her Atomic to hear they had a view like what they did many years later to open their branch of the library and it should be cold like running it but they'll be running it and we didn't want that so at least they said that it belongs to shabbat when they dealt with Hammer before and he dealt with Clinton and Gore later I wasn't involved in the negotiations with Clinton or God it was then later when they want the day their goal was to open their library but they wanted my help to identify because in their big collection of polyakov several thousands are clear from our collection but they didn't know how to recognize them they wanted me to come another burying kept their hiding to me that they want me to come to help identify so I said I should come identify for you to open by you a library I'm not ready for that if you are in the process of returning then I'm ready to spend my time on it so I knew that they don't mean what they say but they said it's a process of returning so I went there for a few weeks I sat with the librarian and we went to the whole project of connection it's about 20 000 values and whenever I read the book that I recognized it's us so I showed the proof and he okayed it and he went separate these are the books that are now in the museum of the library that is in the building of the Jewish Museum because then I also didn't agree to do it unless they would permit me to stamp on each book that it's collection they didn't agree to that but they agreed I should put a sticker on each book that it says it's large collection so I prepared on my computer here in this building thousands and thousands of stickers and each will and each one was printed collection of the baggage and I went with that there and together we will set winner on each book that we recognize we put the sticker the sticker is still not there if you ever saw the books they're all undercover yes they can it says enable collection of the library choice of a large so that was the last time that I dealt with them since 91 till 2000 was nine years in between but they wanted me to help them to prepare that library and even when they prepared that Library they kept begging me to help them secular way how to recognize things on how to identify things and I agreed to do that only on a condition that it's other way of the process and the way to come here they said so they had no choice because otherwise I didn't really go for months they were making me I should go and I went I knew it's not real but at least I go for a good cause of preparing them to come here so when did it become clear that it definitely wasn't coming back here and it is still not clear that they are not going to give him back they just always say give us time but we don't think they are thinking about returning it putting short lately his real face is not about to atone things or give things but at least they they wanted to show a good gesture of seven books so they always speak like that that they want to return it but they don't show really their efforts to read it on it so they gave seven books but they made them sign that people alone and they said just silence alone doesn't matter because we are talking it until it's beginning of returning all the books they just speak like that but we know it's that's not what it means but at least when they say so I have no guilt feeling that I'm doing something wrong because officially I'm preparing that for the books to come here so what was the rabbi's reaction to these incremental small victories getting seven books back to getting a little Russian verdict like what what did Robbie speak about the the the seven books was given back after this rock there we didn't speak he just shake his hand but in dakia they called the assist culture minister they called me up from Washington that they want to come speak to me so I said my pleasure became on the way from Washington to Moscow they had to stop in LA in New York so they came in to speak to me so they've shown me papers that they prepared for returning the books and they wanted me to sign on it and it says that that we are asking to get the books here for this exhibition so he says obviously I'm not signing on it they wanted me to sign that that it's an exhibition which means that I assignments their books and I didn't want to sign on that so they came with the whole obligation to give me ambush patient time but I didn't that was already also in early 1994. so then we didn't have really too much of Correspondence whatever we went to the cult in 2004. it was after that meeting and identifying the books when we saw a year two years or three years later that it doesn't go anywhere they're just telling us nice words but they are not so we decided then to to go to the court here to show them in the court because the court here will never accept a Sue against a different government unless we exhausted our efforts in their goals we showed them that we exhausted everything so the court started here in LA so again public Union invited me to come to L.A to meet you there lawyers to give them the background and to prepare them etc for two days and I give them all the account that's when we started until soon against the government then they said that early is not a proper place for it it has to be the Federal caught in Washington so it was transferred to the court in Washington and that's when I was involved in proving all the aspects of it and eventually the court decided that they have to return it and when they saw that they are losingly stopped cooperating so that's when their penalties came on them for several years when they saw the Adventists are coming on them so they felt their only way for them to level it is to have a arrest warrant against me so the potatoest one against me for holding that seven books until today I have arrest one against me if forever any reason I step on their territory they'll arrest me so that's what was the process of the Court here after this court case didn't take us anywhere so it looked to us that Putin is willing to compromise in some way so it was one of his clothes friends oligarch Friedman called me several times he wants to talk to me about about the whole procedure I didn't have faith in that and I didn't accept it I didn't want to speak to him so they went to Arabic Union and they explained them the whole situation so then yes it couldn't and spoke to them and it looked real so finally said he wants to meet with all delegation and with the lawyers we should come to Moscow and discuss so it applied we don't trust a discussion like this to be in Moscow he should come here so he says it's he can't come here so there was a compromise that we met in Helsinki which is close to Russia and not in Russia the whole delegation and their children including yes and the children of the other delegates when Andrew lawyers went Helsinki to meet with Friedman we met and he says I have a good idea I know that the best thing for us is to return the books but it would work so we have to give something to us food that I don't know if you could do it but I can do it I have the money to do it I'll buy something which is officially for the public it will say it was Exchange you gave this and they give that so I'll prepare for that and then you take it out from court so there was a whole discussion we kept taken out from the court but we accepted his proposal and he says come with me to Russia to Moscow and over there we'll sign the deal in the government servic Union and Marshall yeah I'm a lawyer went together with them two Moscow they met with the highest people in the office of Putin and after all the discussions they said okay you're getting it tomorrow morning there's no reason for you to stay here you could go back on the plane when you land you'll hear an announcement that we're turning the books with the whole process that we discussed so they weren't on the play in that warning he called Lazar to the museum and he came to the museum putting himself and he gave a declaration that these books are going to stay here in this Museum and since that day it's in the museum should we know if the whole sending to us Friedman is just a hoax and they wanted to check out if they could do something with us and when they saw enough getting too far so he decided to put it in that Arrow change everything and he called Lazar and gave the announcement to the Press or he thought maybe and then the middle of the night he decided against it and then he called I want to see you nine o'clock in the museum and I'll be there too and that's when he gave the statement we don't know but it was negotiation with us it looked very little negotiation because Freeman is very close to Putin and it looked like he went on his oh and his mission all this consent and he gave us a whole plan and he said come to us and he came in the office of Putin and they met with his secretaries and they decided all the details and then a few hours later there was a declaration in the museum with Abu Lazar that this library is staying here this collection of seven eight thousand or twelve thousand volumes is the collection that was purchased by the members of Chabad over the generations and used by them for Generations and they are the core of this whole library that we have here and this core of the books that was purchased and used by our webs should come back to the collection of the whole Library there is no question about it and they know that to when they start the court case started in Washington so they representative gave us that a statement let all understand that we have nothing against the bar which for trying to get the books we understand them but we feel that legally we don't have to but we understand them we are nothing against their wishes so there is nothing in saying that by returning or asking them to return the books it would damage their relation with Jews or with kabad in Russia they have a standout point of view and there is nothing that they want to retaliate for they understand that if they give up against a arrest warrant against me for the seven books that I'm not returning it is just the level the panelists that are going on them which is just the process but they understand that there is no reason in the world why they should try to uh do anything bad about there and they didn't do anything to her but there in the last one years even though that they know that we went to court or we got penalties on them because they understand us they just have to realize that they should return that what they say is the truth of the weather is we want to return the books but you have to understand if we return these books to you because they were locked you millions of governments and organizations are going to press others to return them and we can't go with this Noble so we don't recommend that to you it's nothing that they have against us they just feel that it's difficult for them for any reason they want to do it all because they want to show what they call the clock to show false whatever reason but they have nothing against our wishes so there is nothing to fear that they will revenge against it they just have to come to understanding it's in their best interest and in the best interest of Russia to be fair and correct and do what they have to do and then all other powers will probably be solved in a better way for them as I mentioned before that in 1991 when she said Veronica said that we should go to court against the library in their Court we were very hesitating to start a font of fight in Russia and whereas there are the and remember said we should do what she says so that's when there's a court there started that went on for a year and a half fist in the court and then in the ability court and we want them in some in some sense but when we saw that this is going to no success because they are not following it up so then we decided to start the code here in the States first in L.A and then Washington okay as I mentioned before all four of us was skeptical about the approach of finding them and going to court because they never said in the past so many times that for Russia he just diplomacy otherwise it just get them gets them to get stronger against so that's what he said about getting the Jews out of Russia and that's what he said all the time so we felt that she's forcing us to do something against the approach of the rabbit and that's why we notified what she says and that ever kept us telling do whatever she says to do so we went to war it wasn't like one of the four or the other of the four of the delegation all of us were afraid to start the fight there because there was so many times they won't fight with them just diplomacy but when they ever said we should do whatever she said and she went full force so we all went that way obviously each one of our four has his attitude but their General approach was instruction of The River To Go full force not just diplomacy