The Origins of Banging In Response To Haman

[Music] welcome back Rabbi Dr elzar Brut we're happy to have you for a pre perm episode and this one has been sponsored anonymously in memory of MIT M whose yard site was recently 29 Al may this year G for her this year is going to be all about banging during hon some people like it some people can't get enough of it some people like want to run out of Sho you have different rabbis putting up different signs different papers of how our minut is and what we have to do so by br's going to talk about exactly what the origins are what different hug are and where this came about okay so we're gonna be tracing the pros and cons of making noise when hum's name is mentioned throughout the generations okay so everyone knows a few weeks before perm if you don't if you don't know perms coming you hear perm coming with all the cap guns and other loud noise makers that children have because they're preparing for for when during the laning of Milla when they make make all the noise it's similar to you learn so they're M to do make prepare and make sure they're ready to make the noise okay so I would like to trace all the story of this um minig throughout the generations so before to begin so to speak i' like to quote from the both commenting on the the brings down this Min so says the Mish he brings down then he brings down that the rivid that theak says his father would stamp with his feet okay and then the prim says that those that bang confuses people and then the Mish continues in the next and he says when you do bang the should be quiet because then you're going to miss hamans and he and basically he said he's not too Pro the banging of hamans in the next SI that's what he comes out because it's going to cut which we know theyes he waits then he says H and they say it again they bang again so it basically people could miss and even though you're going to make up by trying toook him that you the words you miss you're going to be fall behind etc etc so he's not into at all the banging okay similarly who also brings down and he says that it's a which we we'll be discussing he says if it comes to this that um you can't get the crowd to be quiet we know there anybody the that there's something called over here no if the B is gonna be too great then you should not um you should not hear it in the where there's too much noise okay so these are the two um two known and just we're going to get back to discussing more about this shortly okay now like I always just point out just to not going to give a long list of the bibliographical information of who discusses this Min but um galander in his beautiful safe has a nice piece on this where he goes to the and he sets up the Su very nicely and like everything else there's always some booklets contr them about it so in 1947 yam tunsky put out a work called Kad H where he traces all different aspects of how was done throughout the ages about a 100 page booklet and later on Professor sperber who also wrote a lot about this Min he put out a book called kakam where he also talks about the Arin of the minig and different aics and he also has a whole catalog dealing with a collection in one of the museums here intis of groggers dealing with all these types of stuff okay so that's just to throw out there some of the sources about the actual origins of the Min that help me in preparing this discussion okay now Theo what's the source where does it come from um is there anywhere to start from so we have over here that have discussion of this so there's a sa man and the sa manig okay so he says like this at the after they L the you C you basically say some type of thing which says in it so he says where is this coming from he says um it talks about it then and what does it say there and um so we see that in various early sources which he's pointing to the um says something to the effect that they would you that on Perm you say okay at this point we don't know yet um what what it exactly says over there then he continues and then he says that then he would say um he basically would curse n's name when we say it in the Russ he would curse him out okay and then he continues and then he says what was the there's a concept called whenever you mention aic's name um you say we say because to give a so to speak what do we do by Russ shame okay this is based on a so curse the when we mention a Russ's name we say a lot of times etc etc okay now says so it sounds like what happens like this after he just got finished saying based on the from that there's such a thing of saying this this which was said when at the end of the Milla but what about during the Milla the children had this minig that they would prepare hamon's name and they were bang when they said hamon during the Milla to wipe it out now the question is at this point was this it sounds like it sounds like all Hans okay this is what this is the Lan of the manic now we will get to just to be brief um and then we'll go more to explain the the makus that he mentioned there's a from from who also talks about this and he throws in it's but he does not spe specify if it was done it's not clear if it was done during the during the Milla it could be was done on P okay fine about it about it but then the when he talks about he says that people in Italy had the Min people not not the children daa of stamping their feet banging stones and breaking pths and to thank hasem for saving CLA says it's not a it's a nice custom but according to his L it sounds like it was done by who even the adults this is in the shali um um okay soit here we're seeing it's no longer with the children but then another source from Italy another early rean sorry an early early Italian source of Aran says it sounds like the children were the one who are in this Mitzvah to break p h and Z's name were mentioned now but the point is from the and this it sounds like this was done during the Milla okay because as they said from wasn't clear there's a different early Source One the printed in 1485 they would smash pots when the after the Milla but during the Milla they would just stamp their feet so it sounds like some type of of of uh there was it depends when it was and what and depending on that time what was done okay so so far we're seeing a minut that either ties back to apas mishle that whenever you mention the shame of Russia you're supposed to curse it so here they what they did was they were bang or smash pots and another point was who was doing it was it the children or even the adults um and also and someone else the brings in it's another of this another so to speak reason behind this banging or making noise or whatever it is that you do during Ham's name okay this during the saying of the reciting of Ham's name okay going further in the timeline we find that um okay so now let me just backtrack for one minute and that is already we quoted the man and the man brings in that there's about this about this and there's a m as a a lot of times as it as it tends to be in these type of situations there's different many different in in the various places in the Mish and it's unclear one thing is clear when that would curse when's name was said during the M that seems to be the consensus okay now what about earlier I'm sorry what about saying ham so doesn't mean according to this according to any of these early sources that during the Milla when Ham's name was said that the that that also someone would say sham or curse it out that is up to debate and depending on the various of the various m it sounds like there is that even when every time one would say the name of hamha you curse him out say it which is significant sh while is being said okay I'm not going to get into all the different in all these sources which which I keep on saying but one wants to see has a few pages of quotes of beautiful work has a few nice pages about this and if you look perish on the M show over here shows the different depending and it could be what what's going on in the different things is is it a he so if it could be maybe when cursing him at one time that's not a big he whereas to say ham every single time and Ham's name is to mention to curse it out to curse him out um to say that's a problem okay anyway um fine we go further soit the point is that already it's being pointed out in these early sources something is up that there's some there's a possibility at least to be doing shame to say sh sh even during the mill to curse out when every time Ham's name or is is mentioned during the mill okay now we it seems basically what we do is is at the end and this is coming from all this is already looking in the tour and brings from there and and various at the end of the Milla at night we have a a and um we basically in the there we which is famous at the end of it it has that's where we do that's when we Cur out Ham's name because possibly Al we don't want to say it every time the name is mentioned um so but we do say it at this when this PE is mentioned at the end of The Mill at night it's only said at night Shak is said during the day but this is seems to be a very early PE lot to discuss about this PE but the point is that that's what's going on this where being this um not to do like like but at least to be saying it's a it's sh okay now when we go further um if you go further down the line so we have the maril so the maril what did he do we know he's very important for the it sounds like um he did not bang when they would say hamon's name okay Rama brings this down in his dark we might touch on a little later on some other but interestingly enough in the in the manuscripts the fancy edition of the mar the manuscript that sound Manus one manuscript that sounds like the son says that his father did bang when H's name was mentioned okay anyway be that as it may the RMA over here brings down in as we in Sim and he says like this we'll just quote it because this is the source and this is very important over here he says they made a picture of or they would write the name of that's one reason so he's combining two so does not sound like one time it sounds like multiple times so now what's coming out is that we are doing some form of the of similar to did when he cursed it's being done in a different form not with an but with a of of the bang now but the raama who's doing it according to the Rama if you look carefully Rama brings down okay so the Rama we know is where does it come from you look in the dark he has he he has other okay man Etc then the r says he also and he also brings down the mar the mar didn't which is interesting even though the mar is very important for him anyone we know from all over our how important Mar is and didn't do it you still bringing down you should do it with and ra goes even further he adds in the following sentence don't in general a minut that doesn't make sense to you don't make fun of it because there's a reason behind it and he specifically brings this down over here now um already it's interesting is the doesn't bring down this meing but he does bring down who we quoted already has some form of a of doing this okay why he doesn't bring it down I don't know but the point is to yes to to do it now not only that but as I said Rama is concerned with pointing out that you might think if um don't make fun of hug is it a general thing is he is there something going on specifically over here that he says it because he doesn't write this all the time whenever there's some meing that he's bringing it down okay so we'll try to understand that in a few minutes now there a the says over here he says whenever his name is mention so so the adult what is he supposed to do now we know then he brings he brings and then he says they bang okay and then he brings another Ras and then he says the same thing is the he spe what the says as a general statement about certain and hug him the takes a further and says on this Min that you might think is something weird about it don't say anything and yes to do the minute but what's fascinating for us is the says an interesting thing what about the adult so there's so comes according to him it's clear the children will do the banging what about the adult says the that sounds like every single time so this is a fascinating um thing when you look in the they're very nervous of all types of he and there a whole we said I already began the whole thing already was with the there's a he and the noise and you're going to be concerned and the the over here um about this that there's a great concern of he yet on the other hand we when you learn the early sources the you see that there was some type of thing that they did say Al and says to do it now comes along the what does the say over here he brings down and then he says what the seems to be doing is he's telling us there a mish you might ask me it's haveck and the Mish we see that that's what they did so so what are he supposed to do so it's a a for the and we know this already as we learned the because we started with the early Origins over here if you look the the says like this I didn't bring this down the thing because um and not only that the the m is bothered you might say that maybe it's why he throws out and he brings him a car from that earlier he says no you should not at the end of the day he says no he doesn't he you should not do it so it's interesting he he he he tells you you might why am I not bringing down my and yet what happens is the he even throws out a hez what could possibly be a het in it but more than that the the mug of brings him a for the medish for sorry for the from the med from thei that sounds like everyone says everyone's masing did it and the only sh is if it was also done when they said all the names M or we waited till after M okay now if you look carefully might sound like he has a whole different what's going on over here is like this that the the r and are two that they're very very interested in the we find the the brings in tons of material from the what was and he brings from the and and Sim many times we find him handling him in and bringing from so both these two Works interestingly enough so first the Rama we already said over here says a general thing that you might think hug him don't worry about man hug I mean if sorry he says that if you're going to make fun of man hug him don't you dare make a fun of a minute because there's usually something behind it he says it specifically over here and now only have to and the next right afterwards he has a whole about all different types of things of he says if there's a don't worry about it now what's going ondes to park over here and have different which a lot of times the pis they handle from all the m has over here the answer is is because you might think I'm we going to see that some people are against this says the says the or early with so we are seeing it's not like the interestingly enough even in the it's clear this some if you look carefully the where he's talking about based on the um also you see him he's clearly he's taking a strong stance a minut based on but it's interesting is the magav clearly the ra clearly it see and they have makis because that that's what he's bringing in a big deal that there's a medish there's a early source for once is early makus for it's it's a game changer and understanding of minut now what's so interesting is like this what is this it's a half so just to throw this out there and then we'll move on which is like this there's a famous there was a story it's um Kish Lana it seems in a certain city they didn't have they weren't able to do Kish L until Mish the middle they didn't see the Lana the whole time and what happens they're middle of laning the Milla and if someone comes in and says H there's a Milla sighting home what are you supposed to do you should wait but if they wait there's a big fear uh that they're not going to be able to make that month they're middle of the Milla Soo was asked now I don't know obviously the was asked the Shila they couldn't send the Shila to him in the middle of the Milla right it's not the they didn't have internet telephones that Etc but the point was the has this fascinating cha which has other also where he says yes Tak to stop and say do now over there he talks about if it's just a few or if it was the whole didn't hear it that makes a big difference just for a few you wouldn't stop but whatever it is a fascinating um Tru one of the first I ever heard learned inside as a early years in high school um anyway now over here ref Bol in sh Chua and in sh he brings it down but the point that I'm trying to bring over here is you see look even the laning of the M for anyway so so now the is going with this and that's he's saying with the there is we see the is clearly not like this and you see from they're very nervous okay obviously this is not at all just to bring out a point now but the point is but what's the banging the thing is okay not am but I'm doing aula so is that a half sick I'm making noise okay this is obviously other shist relig okay now just like everything else was there any opposition to this meting so I'm I'm already alluding to when I'm saying that the ra make a stand to say that don't um that dka don't over here they talk about minan the significance of minan and if there's a minan is usually going to have something behind it interestingly enough there's a which is a early work it's a little before the r it's a and in this he had he put in many different very and actually was very rare has it and uses it that's a lot of times the find R me is the and also ra seems might have had this okay it's very possible he did have it and used it but this is beyond discussion so here has all bringing down thei and the the the man and Other M about this then he says whenever he when we have a lot of times he's been huging but he says and the always looking for us is Sak and we find certain times because of Sak were certain things the for example and and other different things he gives examples we see by they were they were certain aspects etc etc so he says also over here with this minig of banging it gets out of control and it makes us a for the and everything and they go and therefore he was against he wanted to abolish the minig of banging by H because of this now that could be it's light what I'm saying now is that the two work the the and the were aware of it they're they're handling the maged now interestingly enough the maged continues and he talks about there's a so he was and we know in other of You'll Always Find discussions in per once once let's say getting drunk and then you'll find that handling that it could get out a control and that's exactly what happened throughout the generations all the different HED already is trying to say no no no we should be careful he brings presedent where we see where especially because he brings in Al and this type of stuff daa to stop the Min of banging okay this is the the manic much sorry now much later on I found rman a famous Mas brings in a newspaper article again are going to be m in us they're going to make fun it's going to bring attention to the G all these types of reasons um it's brought up by various makas throughout the generations and this gets into a whole deeper discussion um which needs a lot of clarification which is how to look at when there's there's a there's something called the gous Jew when you're in gulus you should be careful how you act not to bring extra attention to yourself and this obviously plays out tremendous today in what is the media and all these types of things should we defend ourselves should we be quiet different kuas and different kuas in the generation we find um they were very scared with xus of the gim what they could end up doing um so they were very they kept as they call a low profile so this is similar what you see different times so as far as perm also this is what really is behind this mag this is and there's many sources for this I'm just going to quote one it gets out of control so in his newspaper articles that he used to write in the hamod way back so which was collected in a volume recently so there he says that he describes how one of the shoes the smoke was and it causes basically people Lo from all the different gadgets that the kids do so it ends up causing that the whole Milla everything CA it's causes problems anyway there's a long list of makus about this um and we find other times that people also Other M of Yen that tried to be abolish it is autobiography I'm very fond of paing wro her father father was a Epstein who was learn he also learned in for a few years and he also seemed to try to abolish it in his other such just W I used to see the few times I was laning by him he didn't stop it he let him okay fine anyway is there some type of compromise so yes it seems um we this is a well-known thing sometimes we attempt to do compromises so the brings down that some would only do the banging when when the names of hamon and his children were said only then did they do it and this could be in certain the it wasn't done every H okay also brings down such a thing was only during the the also says that only during and it seems there were other M of such a thing um but like everything else not always was this accepted now another interesting to no he says what's famous thing we say he says the was even in other places they didn't bang H they they would try to do it just over there so because of that to be mble the kids were being banging so much to make sure you said everything where they would say the names of the children out loud that's where the minute came from because this was taking the place some like the that when they would bang for H anyway um you we could find them we can list out different places of out getting out of control and to stop it but we're not going to list all of it out just one cute is the which is a parody type of work which is appropriate for p but we're not going to discuss it by what this work is but basically in 1824 this guy writes he's talking about perm so he writes that the the the kundis the trickster this the basically the kid that makes all the trouble and everything he must bang with all his strength for a long time every time H's name is mention until he's either thrown out or quieted down if he gets thrown out due to his long banging I raise a and he must scream welome and and and he even screams and H's name is said okay this is just a thing that's there's numerous makus throughout our sources of people that we see that even with all the Pim and all the different things what we know the minig survives and thrives okay now the question is um what are the reasons behind this Min and maybe to even explain the behind this ra to maybe give some insight so before we get there just to mention two or three other reasons and then and then we'll just say one M um to tr to attempt to explain something what's going on be in this minute recently actually almost a year ago my friend RAB Yakov St so he discovered a unique mining mentioned in manuscript from which he is able to date to 1429 he doesn't know who the author is but basically like this he says this this manuscript says like this they bang with stones when they say why so he didn't have enough money so what do he have to do he had to go to all the people that used to make the coins they had to make so it was a lot of banging people asking what's what's the T why is there so much banging of metal for money to be created so what's interesting is like this basically is the this period because of what happened that H said he's going to give this large sum of money so there was a big rash in the area in around the palace I guess so because of that because of this banging became the bang during H what's going on over here so in this article which I'm more than happy um to send out a PDF of someone requests Rabbi style goes into the way coins were made and the of how much money this of was a very large sum of money and how it was made and the coin making and M he mfish he analyzes in depth the different aspects of to EXP explain all what's going on behind this minting and he also gives some interesting background to the in know like 18 19 page article which I'm more than happy to share I'm just mentioning it to throw out there some very weird reason behind it that's number one okay number two is and this um just to to to to to go back to what we said earlier not only is it L A lot of times so okay I'm showing you this the it's the it's showing it's back in the medish this is really what's going on with this is going on with the okay even who's the and he brings down he says so you see like the really that that M doesn't want to bring down he didn't have this was very because the children don't know okay and he brings down it's also found so now to just to throw out t with this we keep on saying this sh first what's going on about sh that you mentioned the name the Russia okay so I'm not going to go into this in depth however if you has a discussion about this and one other is a beautiful recently a few years ago was published in a fancy Edition by over there in the which is has this med which also which is one of the M of this thing that would curse during the so first he brings down over here based on that you're supposed to praise the people with their things and to make people look up to these people and to the opposite for bad people so you should not look up to these to people that are bad so to over here that's why we say um that's going on when we say that we're mentioning to similar to this rambam to look up to thead then he brings down further um he handles about when you when you curse when you curse a Russia is it only when he's alive when he's not that this is plays out ground over here also we're not going to go into that then he says [Music] another so even though he's dead the he brings from there such a thing he can go up so two that goes on over here it adds to the okay and he has some other fascinating in this aspect and that's what is behind so to speak in the cursing out of when you mentioned R's names now the we know that we we say when we refer to we we have this person I'm stuck how to say it in English anyway yashka so how do we refer to yesu so it's brought down what's yes okay that's an interesting idea one other with this is is that is the is a is I believe it's called and in here all the stanzas at the end of each stanza which is talking about would we would say and throughout the of the this was inserted each time each set of stanas we okay there's a something when when you're saying are very and such a thing which is perfectly um a good thing to do now um going on with with the reasoning behind this Min so I've quoted in the past a very interesting work from Mal this work was in manuscript until very recently but we know different materials of this work because of the so he talks so about our minute of banging he says what's going on behind it the brings us down also but now that we have the we can see morei says people um the children especially the small children but even they bang and they make a whole thing and it's in front of us and he says that's he says don't make and people are gonna make fun of us he says like this they saw how long this is and there's gonna be another oppressor come up against us and everyone's going to hear about it and they tell to their kids and he says not that historically there was such a thing so basically we T make just the opposite of what I am quoting earlier fromed no we want even the to hear this to to show oh what's the business why is there a rash the Jews are making a rash no there was a whole story Hama wanted to destroy them and and then he lost out and what happened he was killed ET Etc hung by in this in this situ um he was hungu so we should so some might all of a sudden back off from an xus that they might have wanted to do on against the okay this is what the um says and is also the shame from sh from K sh from Ragin he also says this himself um in a a little differently but the point is that anti-semites they might want to whatever chap us so when they hear this rash so sort of like if this is actually playing out the ghost true point that I mentioned earlier there's different ways so some people might say no it might affect the maget tedc or let's say much later on Ren and other people they held no it could make it and it probably depended on which areas you lived in and what the G what were they were like at the time and they would say no no no don't make a big deal don't make your presence known even this plays out okay not going to give any not to go on any tangents but the point is whereas the CI orag the point was just the opposite to make the rash so everyone would be talking about it and then they would possibly back off from chering the juice okay anyway say these are some of the reasons just to with one last um reason and that's like this I keep on saying over here now there's another thing which um people still do to today is they would make a m and they would hang it um brought down this is brought down as early as the and they would hang it and they would dance around it and it's brought down a bunch of okay so we see there was some type of thing hum and to children they would sort of like reenact even I guess the humans okay there's a general minig which is brought down in numerous sources many people have heard of it um um it's very very famous but um one of the earliest sources is in the saav yashar which was a extremely extremely popular work published in yish Hebrew over 80 times in 1705 1706 and he brings down whatever they would test out a pen he would write the name of hamor and he would say and he would erase it and you would say I'm it's also got more popular because of the sa from which I spoke about the she about who also brings this down from the kavash so basically things were done the hang the not only the banging of hanging of and all this is what's going on behind this is there any way to explain this um possibly so I came across a chuva from a reinger or maras however you want to say his name and he was a and he was a known against different when people were he was a known to defend it and in various of his Contra his he that's exactly what he does he goes to defend it so he has a Chua in his ch where he deals with this topic okay so basically someone wrote A M about banging of clapping by and the banging of H he says not only that what what's is given to the children um why is it done da during Milla laning because M the listeners and we really should stop it that's what this guy ask R now anyone who knows Rus as I gave the a moment ago he's the wrong guy to ever start if you ever mention a minan you try to be M um he's the wrong guy so of speak it obviously this has to do with the historical period of time we different reformers and were were actually actively being M different and hug and there was a great battle going on in this in his regions and and that's why he was very sensitive to such a to such a thing anyway bit has a massive chuva on the topic a beautiful chuva where he tries to give Insight behind this great minic and he says so I'm just going to quote a few pieces from it and that's how we'll end says like this we know now says so you could say it's good enough to do but the gar says also some type of concept of now a if you do something you remember things better so now so he says like this when you lay in the Milla banging is a Simon of okay so what we want is now he's not saying he says don't think I'm saying that bang is but I want to show he says [Music] that and the banging is one of the he says the whole concept behind mther saying it is for so he says you're gonna say you know a lot of times you could space out ET such like this you space out during the mill laning so the with the banging you're remembering what you're doing over here you're not you're remembering you're also being and therefore so it's not just a you just would say it it wouldn't be enough so you being with the very cute thing he goes on that go the children also because the also affected the children and andik didn't have mercy on the children he deals with that also okay now he throws out there doesn't do it and ra brings it down so He suggests maybe is we the maril was the mar himself didn't do it but he let the kids do it now interestingly enough it seems that this m knew theik which makes sense and and he told this toik and theik was not happy about this Rik says no this Min where do you find that the Min is with gim now the truth is we saw earlier that this a possibility that it is with also depending on the different but anyway the point is um it's for children now he goes further he says um and we'll get back to the children aspect with him in a second that he goes further with this then he throws out this similar I brought down from the kav with the with the when you would test out a pen so he says my RAB would do this now so certainly so because the they have an effect so now like this lay we don't want you to be M we want to be focusing on the the n and more so he goes on and he says that you there's we know we're supposed to lay in the M like Anis what what does this mean because if you if you if you stop in middle of the Milla you might not realize the nce the nce is only because of all these events put put together he shows that punk all the different things happened we see that someone was causing all this a greater up above and if to be a h you might not this aspect you could TI up this way and this aspect tight up this way but the point is when you put it all together that's what's behind like so what's going to be so he says we find that when you Lan even we find that there we have seven alas when you lay in also he says part of is to um because it's hard to listen for a long period of time so we want you to listen we want you to listen very carefully but we also are we are K were conscious whoever is behind this was very conscious of of The Facts of how people work if they listen if they're able to listen they focus I mean today we know we have a lot of evidence about this the attention span of people so he says like this so we could say space out make that's not good enough so what we do is we say bang bang to remind us of doing a to remind us what we're doing when we're saying this Milla so it's a cute cap so to speak in in it it's because really we don't want you to be maick but on the other hand we don't want you falling asleep he says L goes even further we know perm is coming up so a lot of them in hugging that was done was to keep the kids awake and interested so to M Milla we want the children we want us to get through so now he could say listen to the m but if the whole is they would do this banging and stuff everyone knows the kids every from a young age they're like waiting listening till the next at least they listen somewhat maybe it's not good maybe they should listen to the whole thing but they listen more than if they would not have this ability to bang so there a very cute the hair in part of the aspects he obviously he says it out much better than I'm saying and I'm ordering it down but he he he brings this out very nicely and and so it's part of also dka that's why it's the children so so we're do so the point is we're doing some aspect with the with we're reminding ourselves the whole time during the Milla what it is that we're doing we're doing this not only sh also we're doing and and so part of it is with the actual banging okay now interestingly enough there's a work was very fond of it so he also talks about what's Happ the kids they do with their um grogers he calls it so he says like this it's again he says another you have to do a why it will help you remember just like by what do we do we drink wine so to do with this now V is the children so he um so he has a reason for that and then he says also they held their hands up the kids they hold their hands up with it similar to remind us with m knew what was going on by the war with amalik had told he held his hands up and we know what happened behind that story now one more nuda in all this which he which which back to marus and his saer he brings sort of from theer is that there's an Auda which we find in numerous sources based on the ramban that we do down here to cause effects upstairs we and and then then Clos to and happens downstairs what do I mean I'll give it an illustration there's a Min um among many people when they say during which we know is a school of they open up their hands because they what CH they're opening up their hands to show we want to help with parasa so we when you an action is done down here it has sort of speak cabalistic language language upstairs it has some type of effect causing something to happen in the physical world so when we make no when Ham's name is mentioned it triggers forem to destroy a Malik and our other enemies this is a Loosely um nuda based on based on this also is behind this whole of what's going on and that's V with what's behind it with a Russia with back to I quoted earlier with the Nar so comes out to conclude is it's very very interesting we have a Min and this plays out in numerous numerous manhog we have a min which T over here after going through this has early sources and its early sources goes way back possibly to and just the way the de is how the Min plays out how is it done but it's all going back to Mish When you mention the name of of R what to do and we see that there was someone that taka did when he mentioned name he would curse him during the Milla so you mentioned discussed it but the problem is even ha but the point is it's malal cause the problems so we see that that alone to abolish it we see that again and again there were other reasons brought up to abolish it there were compromises but at the end of the day one goes around statistically in shoes you see that the minus it's going on it's happening so this is really and we'll be assigned with this PR is this Tas we learn from here in general with and that's what I'm claiming is with the and they're emphasizing over here a lot of times you don't think there's something behind the yes this is sort of a clash so to speak there is a big Clash but once we have early sources very far back it changes up the story it's not just some made up oh some 100 years ago they did this and it comes up as a minut and people run with it this there's early sources and this there's something behind it so certain people yes it got out of control and it constantly it's gets out of control and throughout the generations it got out of control and there's fears but still there was there's something behind it and we see if you look carefully in this D for the children and it's to help not only the children the adults to stay into to goofa theud of the haveck he's saying goofa not because you might space out you might not listen to the Milla properly so there was a way to keep you into the Milla especially for the children which we find is a theme of PES to anyway these are some of the some of the many many sources that there are at this minig um and um we should be to learn all the other story All the Other M about the minut but this is just some of the story of this minute