Tuition

What is Darke's annual budget and how does that compare if you have any knowledge to like the average? Is it more? Is it less? Like what's their annual? >> Well, our annual budget for all of our all everything including the camps, including including the yeshiva and all [music] all um division of the yeshiva >> is about $50 million. >> $50 million >> per year. >> Per year. >> That's the annual budget. $50 million. So 31% of that. >> I think everyone out there took a deep breath. Yeah, I almost fainted off, but I have to I have to keep my [music] cool here. >> $50 million and let's say 31% of that [music] is tuition. >> I'd like to welcome on to the podcast about the middle class caner Joel Kaplan, executive director of Yeshiva Dora. And in this podcast, we're going to discuss a heated topic or maybe controversial, I don't know, you're going to tell us called tuition in the from community. And I'm sure a lot of what Joel's going to say is uh not only applicable to Dora in the five towns for a area, but also a lot of yeshivas and schools and maybe even seminaries um around the from communities. So, um I would say let's start with just Joel introducing yourself and what you do on a daily basis and we'll start asking some questions. Okay. I look forward to it. Thank you for inviting us. Me um so my title is executive director at Yeshiva Torah. But um like most people in Dora, we we we all help the goal is to help Rab Bender. he's the the master makan in America at least and it's it's our to be able to help him. So they gave me a title executive director. Um I've been involved with DH since we almost when we moved into into Far Rockway 1986 and I was president uh for a number of years when we bought the campus. Um and I was always a board member or um working in in DH and it's seven about almost 8 years ago I came to DH as executive director after the saddamira of my predecessor the unbelievable um Yehuda Harve right >> so on a on a daily basis um I suppose there's two there's two seasons for us for me and one of them is the tuition season as we say which starts um April May goes through right until until Yeshiva starts. >> So it's for the next year. >> For the next year, right? And um also I I'm sort of in charge of the logistics of the dinners, the the main dinner which is um January 11th in Crest Hollow. Hope to see you there. And the colo dinner later in the year. And then um some other special projects. For example, the some of the um real estate that we own. I'm involved with in terms of um what we should do with it and how we manage it >> and that keeps keeps me busy. Keeps me pretty busy. >> Okay. So, two heated topics mentioned over there, tuition and real estate. Maybe we should switch to the real estate uh topic. >> That's for another podcast. >> Okay. Well, it is a money podcast. So, um um I know the D building is is in a pretty high demand [laughter] spot. Um but let's focus on tuition. So you know in my experience as a financial planner I deal with people's budgets a lot and of course a large part of the budget is tuition and rightfully so. We you know in the Jewish community we've always focused on educating our children and and the importance is not for me to emphasize but it's I think self-evident and obvious. Um, the question I always had was though, um, from the yeshiva or school side, are there different tiers as far as who pays full, who pays less? And I'm curious like how you [clears throat] classify that and of course without being very confidential, who goes where, and is it extremely customized? I want to hear what goes on from your side. So I I think I wanted to start with with two principles that one principle is that um if the parents are happy about the and that depends a lot upon the kids but if you see the coming off the buses um coming out of the car pools they're happy faces and I think that everyone would would would agree that the the Talmud is a special type of Talmud. um they're happy, they um they're smiling, and that's 95% of of the atmosphere in which we talk about tuition. That's number one. >> Number two is anybody who is paying tuition wants to feel that they're being taken care of, that being responded to, that it's being it's fair, and it's not a when we meet new parents, myself and the registar, Mrs. is Amy Curts. Uh we we emphasize that um you call us, email us, uh when you're never bothering us. We want you to go through the tuition process with uh as smooth as possible and therefore you don't have to ask anybody else because they may have they ask a different shila. We'd like to be able to make sure that that you're taken care of. So if the parents feel that the process is fair and responsive and they're happy parents or they will be happy parents if they're going to be new parents but obviously they want to be parents and d they made that decision, >> right? >> Um so that's that's the framework in which we which we talk about or set up tuition. We also have a portal. It's one-stop shopping and meaning that uh when you set up your payments uh you you set it up yourself from whichever account you want to set it up from, whichever day of the month you want to have the money pulled. Uh if you need financial aid, you click takes you to a financial aid application and anything you need, you could download. For example, the calendar or the handbook. Anything that Yeshiva needs, immunizations, you upload. Um, so it makes it uh it's customer service and we say that and and we say I say it's funny for Yeshiva to say customer service but we pride ourselves on our customer service because you you entrust your son to us or sons to us and you entrust your money to us and we have to take care of both. That's the way we approach it and and I think for the most part uh there are times during the top of the season when it's just so many people are we we we may be more delayed but we try very much to respond as uh expedition expeditiously as we can. Now, now as far as the the tiers are concerned, there are a couple of of schools that tried, I think the JC and Elizabeth tried with a formula where you took the adjusted gross income or the and and you applied some other factors and you came out with, you know, with a number for the tuition. We we tried that and we don't think that it works for us. So, we work harder. Tuition committee and I work much harder. What we do is we customize it. In other words, you could tell me that people that make a certain amount of money, he makes a same amount of money as I do. So why should I be paying more or less? The answer is there are 10 other extenduating circumstances, >> right? >> Um you have another child going to school this year than last year. Same you have the same tuition. >> You you made a wedding. Um you made a bitzvah. You're sending a daughter to seminary. you had exceptional medical expenses. Wow. >> You're supporting uh married children. Now, all of these you could say, well, why should the yeshiva have to help in all of those things and and it's a good it's a good discussion, but we've come to the conclusion, I think, that this is the life we all live. We all live that what I all that I just said are not extraordinary um cases where you just bought, you know, a new house and you're overextending yourself and now you're saying I have no money. Um this these are cases where we're living the from lifestyle and and now and we we work with that and it does it it does it mean that yeshiva will get less tuition than otherwise we would have if you hadn't done one of happened these one or two things hadn't happened yes but um that's the that's the the world we all live in >> we work and rebender and everyone who does the fundraising has to work harder but we understand that and we try to make it work. >> Wow. So that was what I was wondering. So you have maybe you know thousands of I mean how many >> right? So with besides base medish which is a different para and we have uh Rabbi Steinberg takes care of that because we're accredited and therefore there are a whole set of different rules that apply. Um but we have 1,420 parents and we have about 2500 >> uh we have 27 almost 2,800 uh tidim from nursery >> through co that's and you said 14 that's sets of like a set >> right right that's that's parents and so it's an average of about almost two a little less than two children per per family then they have girls uh Then they have those [snorts] who are before uh preschool. They have those that you know graduated are married. But that's Yeah. We have 1420. So about about 31% pay full tuition. >> 31%. >> Yeah. About right. So I just want to shout this out that you know a big part of the podcast is [snorts] you know I when I work from the side of the clients that I work with to do financial planning you know they look obvious I mean I don't know if it's obvious or it's just an instinct but they see tuition as you know naturally a burden they understand that it's important and this but I want people to see how hard the from the other side how how hard the school works to accommodate everyone and and that that's my next question. How do you >> deal with the volume uh of and [snorts] would you say one more thing 31% pay full tuition? What about half tuition or a third tuition like you? >> No, that's everybody from there are some that are unable to pay. >> Right. >> Period. >> Right. I mean our policy is that if someone is an alman or an alman they never pay tuition again. Some of them still pay tuition because they choose to >> but they'll never get a bill from Yeshiva. That's a Rabbi Bender uh >> principle and we you know that's what we do. >> Um if if someone is unemployed we do three things. One is um they would like for the next six months not to pay tuition and I say I can't do that but every month let me know what you can and can't do and maybe you could do a partial payment. >> I asked [clears throat] for their resume because we have a group in DNA who try to help them find jobs very successful at that and then I asked them for the Hebrew name and I dive them for them. Those are the three things. >> Wow. So how do you how do you handle it? How do you do? >> We work very hard. The tuition committee works very hard and Mrs. Curts works very hard and Mandel Bam who works with us works very hard during that season. It's like if you're a CPA, you know, it's tax season, >> you know, that that's the nature of of the beast and >> you want to make sure that everyone feels feels taken care of. So, yeah. So again, so that 31% you're saying is including also the partial tuitions and and >> No, 31% is is full tuition. Full tuition. >> Full tuition, right? >> And and the the everybody else is paying somewhat less >> and it depends. It's customized like we we spoke about, you know, we look at each application >> um individually >> and um we try to make it work. And a lot of times, >> you know, they'll say, "Look, I really can't do that." And then we discuss it, you know, and we work we work things out. We always we end up our our goal is and so far for the last many years we've achieved it. >> That when it comes to niting, which is the prelude to yeshiva starting >> everyone is is is registered. >> 1420 parents >> are registered. I mean, there may be one or two that are about to and you know, and just couldn't get to the computer to finish up, >> but that's so we start with the school year with without any of those other complications where people are coming to school, the kids are coming to school and, you know, they didn't they didn't finish registration. >> Mhm. [clears throat] So, Wow. So, and you we were speaking about this a little bit before the podcast. You do have some stories of people where >> they didn't pay full tuition. >> And [clears throat] I want to stress it's not the majority. >> No. >> But I do want to, you know, know what that is. People that >> pay more for certain things that, you know, from your side is >> Yeah. I I I would say that for example there may be and again these are very rare cases because the people who don't pay full tuition >> are saying to me and and and they're saying it with a with a um authenticity which says I want to pay full tuition because like I started the the the parents for the most part are very very happy and appreciative of the of they get in Torah. So that's the that's the the attitude they come with. But we we know you know better than anybody that not everybody can do that. What we do by the way with full tuition uh is that we have a sock from tax council which says that a percentage of it can be uh deductible and and it's broken off and therefore uh when when you pay that amount that's taxdeductible and it helps many people particularly those in that bracket. Um so when you pay full tuition they're getting some relief in that sense. Mhm. >> Um, and we try to work with them in terms of how they structure their payments. If they don't have necessarily want to do it every month because that's not the way they their income comes in, we work with them as well. So, we're we're we we try. So, even the people that are paying full, it's not like we have no contact with them. >> Uh, we do because a lot of times they need those tweaks and we're very very happy to accommodate them. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. So, this you've had some >> I had a couple of stories. Yeah. And again I I want to make sure that people understand >> there was somebody let's say who made a and they had to and they made an over-the-top for their tax bracket for their income bracket. >> Um and um I don't know why and you know whatever it is um and they borrowed money >> and then when it came to tuition you know they said they were they were stretched because of the because of the fact that they had they had to borrow money for the >> um so that we had to deal with that. Um there are people also that are getting um a significant uh financial aid and I I think it's important for everyone to understand that when when you we have a contract you sign a contract that you're going to pay X amount of dollars and it's not the full amount of tuition. We understand that. But you have to understand or the the parent un and they almost always understand that it doesn't mean that it's paying for the for the full amount of the cost of your of your son. Someone is paying for the difference. Bender is raising the money. The the fundraiser is raising the money. Your neighbor may be helping to pay you know not directly but it's able to pay. And therefore when it comes to >> messer >> so yeshiva should be in that pool >> and there are rare cases where the charitable contributions will be listed on the financial aid application of x. >> Mhm. and I I'll look and see what they've done fundraising, you know, what they've been able to contribute to the yeshiva and if it's not a meaningful number, I'll call them on that and you know and they'll explain well I I spoke uh well I you know I gifted my shul and I give to and I and I'm quiet and and I think and then I make the the point and I say you know what don't don't listen to me ask your r what you should do >> you know so when when it comes to I I'm not I'm not giving the pac But but I think and they all understand it and they all they all have done better going forward. >> I want to stress that because in the podcast that um inspired this one, shout out to Nahi Gordon and meaningful people um that um I also stress this saddaka question. What comes first? You know, listen, you know, everyone there's unfortunately a lot of needs. Um but I believe there is an order of priority of what comes first when it comes to doc to talk and I do see people's budgets and I do have some questions [laughter] as far as you know why this came before this but it's [snorts] just important to see from the other side that this is a reality that uh you know and and like we're both agreeing here we're not saying what comes first or what comes second but ask your RV speak to your RV there of Sudaka and tuition you can pay Meer you know you can mainly use Micer for >> well it wouldn't be you you've you've if you're complying with the agreement that you made and how much you're paying and it's less than that's fine >> but now there's Micer and we have you know a dinner or we have uh other kinds of um you get enough people get enough emails from us about opportunities for sponsorship and for things which would be considered a charitable contribution and poter >> and please please help out. >> Mhm. >> Right. So there there's the option to even yeah if tuition maybe is not. So I'm curious how you're able to find out you know the financial situation of each person. Is it you trust them or >> We do trust them. [laughter] We do trust them. It's a sensitive question. >> Yeah. But no but but there's documentation. There's there's a we use Fax, which is um a a nationwide non-Jewish uh um uh that collects the information independently >> and then uh ask a lot of questions. A lot of them are um what you would consider um I don't want to say invasive, but penetrating questions about what you do, what you do for pay, what you do for for um what your your credit card costs are. A lot of questions. um are you supporting married children? Are you get are you getting support? It's to give the the full picture of your Now, it's very confidential, right? >> It's very confidential. Tuition committee members for a lot of reasons, it's confidential, but one reason is that if you're on the tuition committee, you don't want anyone to know that you're on the tuition committee. >> That that's number one. So, no one is talking about it >> on tuition committee and I'm not talking about it. and you know uh >> um and none of the files get out of my office. You know, it's we're we're very clear about all of that and um >> u besides everything I'm an attorney and so therefore I'm I'm very uh uh sensitive to the fact that you know confidentiality is important. So >> so that that that's number one. >> Number two is um information is collected and then you analyze it. I mean there are people that um um and and uh I I think that it gives the full picture of the of the of the person as much as it can and there opportunity to write comments. >> Mhm. >> There's opportunity to explain it by calling me or emailing me if they have to elaborate even more. Um and but and and and interestingly enough, fax has their own formula >> of what they feel someone be able to pay of tuition based upon >> the information that you collected. >> Mhm. >> And [clears throat] they're wrong. >> They're wrong. They they they would have they would ask you to pay more >> farmer because in the nonfrom lifestyle, >> right, >> all the things that we pay much more for >> because that's the from lifestyle, >> they don't take into account. So we don't we're not gervicit [clears throat] >> really. >> Yeah. Not at all. And I think most of the schools that use it >> are not gervous. [clears throat] >> But >> so what is a just a factual question, pun intended facts. >> Um what what financial aid is available just to educate people maybe they don't know what financial aid is available for someone who needs tuition? Is that something from the government or something from the school? What is it? >> It's all collected money from the school. I mean we we we we don't have any pots of money from the government that except now that I was going to ask about segue. Yeah. So let's yeah that's actually could be a gamecher but it's far from a game changer yet. First of all it didn't start yet and we're talking about the big beautiful bill. >> Yes. So explain if you don't mind the >> the big beautiful bill is the bill that just that passed uh last year last earlier this year >> um that uh President Trump um signed. It's called Educational Choices for Children Act, ECCA, but everyone >> a lot of people call it the big beautiful bill because in many ways it is. And what it does is it says if you owe, and I don't want to get too much into the weeds, but if you owe um [clears throat] tax money to the federal government, the federal government now says that you could take 1,700 up to $1,700 of that amount that you owe, >> and you could direct it into what's called a scholarship granting organization, an SGO, and designated for a particular school. and then the SGO to make sure that that the uh and then then the parents themselves will apply to the SGO and if the SGO says that they're eligible >> Mhm. >> then then the then the uh SGO will take the monies that were designated for their school and give it to the school and then the school will have that much more money >> in [clears throat] terms for scholarships. Now >> let's let's analyze the $1,700. Okay. and and the regulations are not out yet and each governor has to sign on. Teacher unions, public school teacher unions are are not happy with this because they always feel that any money that goes to non-public schools are monies that have sort of being taken away from them. >> Although in this case >> they too can get money from taxpayers designating money to public schools for their afterchool programs, the extracurricular programs there are. So, in that way, we hope to, you know, I suppose mitigate the opposition. But of the $1,700, if someone has children in three schools, then now you're down to about $500. >> Mhm. [clears throat] >> What about grandparents? Grandparents. You tell me how many how many grandchildren can I do many of their grandparents have? [clears throat] >> 10, 15, 20, 25. >> Take the $1,700 and divide it. >> Right. So you're talking about very little money at the end of the day >> unless you have people that you'll persuade who have no children in school who are not part of let's say even the from community >> and say [clears throat] hey a business associate do me a favor doesn't cost you a penny >> just write the check $1,700 you'll get a credit for it and you write it to this SGO and designate my school or don't designate your school just send it So now it's and it's not starting until January 2027, >> right? >> So we don't know what the effect will be. We hope it will be uh somewhat it will be a start of something big. Let let's put it that way. In Pennsylvania >> Mhm. [clears throat] >> had a tax credit program that started out at a $20 million for for the whole program, not just for Yeshiva's. then up now up to $600 million. >> So a lot of times you put your stake in the ground >> and over the years [clears throat] >> it will grow. >> But I I want to caution the yeshivas out there >> and the parents >> to [clears throat] to say, "Oh, well now there's money coming from the government. Please, let's be a little more >> sophisticated about it." It's it's the start of something nice, >> but [clears throat] it's it's only the very start of something. >> So that's the perspective. It's something, but it's the I guess what makes it more exciting or >> I guess better is the fact that you're able to, you know, you see these kinds of trends where >> Yes. And it's not from our community. In other words, we're not taxing quote our community at all anymore. It's coming from >> the the general tax base of of the federal government. Yeah. So financial aid which I when I was hearing the term I thought of like FAFSA and PEL grants. No, this is not what's going on. >> Yeah. FAFSA and PEL grants are in in for the base medish >> for the base mealy. And when we say when it comes to elementary school it's fundraising. That's what we mean by financial aid. >> Um so let's get to the numbers. What what is Dar's annual if this is okay to reveal annual budget and how does that compare if you have any knowledge to like the average is it more is it less like what's their annual uh >> well our annual budget for all of our all everything including the camps including including the yeshiva and all all um division of the yeshiva >> is about $50 million >> $50 million >> per year >> that's the annual budget $50 million so 31% of that I think everyone out there took a deep breath. >> Yeah. Well, I almost fainted off, but I have to I have to keep my cool here. >> Um $50 million and let's say 31% of that is tuition. >> No. No. 31% of the people who pay tuition are paying full tuition. >> The tuition is probably about about a little more than half >> half of the 50 million. Yeah. >> So yeshiva has to raise $25 million a year, >> right? So we don't raise that because we there are some monies for example >> the state of New York uh gives uh what's called mandated services which is they pay for certain mandates that require in other they require that we keep attendance they require that we um uh do some immunizations or oversee it. So there's money that comes in that's that's a small amount again, but you add that in to the contributions um and to camp fees. So it's not just tuition for the yeshiva, >> it it adds up to to make sure that we we we cover our our costs, >> but the tuition is more than half, >> right? >> But we have a way to go. Yeah. and and uh so how so if at the end of the day how much money needs to be raised through fundraising? >> We raise about seven 8 million um in in fundraising and which is an unbelievable amount of money and raising mostly from the from the from the parents themselves who are already paying full tuition or paying >> or not paying [clears throat] full tuition but are giving meer. So and and the only way that that happens is because we have uh a product so to speak that is very uh that is very sought after and it but it costs money. It costs money to to pay we pay >> amongst the highest you know in in the in the tri-state area >> and and and they work 24/7. I mean literally 24/7. I mean I there a lot of war stories I could tell you I've been that would would regail you with all the stories all the emails he gets from parents uh which he sometimes shares but I mean I know without disclosing much is there's a rebby that went walked Rashana to pick up a yasum from another neighborhood and to daven with him. >> Wow. >> Yeah that's one one story like that. There are many many stories like that >> and rebum are dedicated throughout but I have to say that Arabam you know it's it's the it's the but you know what sons-in-law the out there want to meet him as their sons-in-law. I'm not making that up. It's true. We all know >> and and for good reason. It's because it's there's a certain schlamus that the that the boys have. Not just that they they're say, >> but there's a way that they conduct themselves out there that makes them um a good husband and a good father. >> Wow. So, so there's the schlamus of theim. And I would just want to stress here what I'm hearing that's [snorts] I don't know if it's a to me or novel to anyone else. But you see how the I'm in the business world, the corporate world. Now, alfdulis, you know, [snorts] yeshivas are not corporations, but it's run with professionalism, uh, attention, paying a lot of attention to results in a good way. What are we producing? >> [snorts] >> um what does it take the numbers a lot of you know statistics don't lie a lot of times and of course we're not numbers we're not just statistics but when you want to be effective you plan the the yeshiva like a almost like again I don't want to use the word a business but it's efficient like a business and that's something which to me is pleasantly surprising and [snorts] I'm curious to know if you're familiar with the landscape of other places, you know, not putting them down or putting them up, but how does, let's say, Dar compare to other places and other yeshivas, how they're run. Um, >> I I I can't I can't speak to other Yeshiva. I can just tell you that there are other well very well run yesas out there but I can tell you that my colleagues are are you know a team people that they're very smart >> uh they're seasoned they're um [clears throat] >> uh they're very dedicated >> and you know Rab Benda lets us have a certain autonomy in how we in how we operate so to speak >> and there's they're opinionated sometimes we have you know interesting uh discussions but at the end of the day everyone isma and we're doing the right thing. And and let me just say one thing about D that I that I >> we we never say it's good enough when it comes to a particular boy. We will we will we will laser our all of our resources on a particular boy. We will have meetings where there'll be eight or 10 mim and and uh the principal and the rebi and other other people that are involved with the >> talking about sitting around the table >> talking [clears throat] about that one boy and how we could help that one boy who's maybe going through something. Okay, we have >> we have a we have in in Mifto we have Rabi Feder is a is a is a Mashpia and then we have Rabi Kilson who's mashk these are things that these are these are positions and then a lot of times you don't have in any other mifa >> uh particularly both and and then you have in the in the lowest in the elementary school you have also those people who are dedicated to make sure that the boys are healthy they're learning and they're healthy as as much as we can M >> so that's that's uh very important to us that we we and we always try after every successful event we don't say oh okay we always have what we call a post boredom >> and we have all the comments that we get from amongst internally and from people who make comments good and bad >> and we try to make it better we always try to make it better we we never say >> you know it's good enough >> and and [clears throat] I just want to say one other other thing when it comes to the fact that people say, you know, it's a very big place. I I I my my my three-year-old, you know, how is he gonna Your three-year-old nursery is going to be on one floor with other nurseries. >> He's going to have access though to a a great gym indoor. He's going to have access to an outdoor gym. It's out playground. That's unbelievable. And all the professionals that are going to be dedicated just to make sure he has he's not going to school with an eighth grader, >> you know. It it it it and and whenever because we're we have large res a large school we have large resources and we're able to target those resources to any child who needs help or on the other hand we have a program for example Misha he'll he'll pull he'll pull out boys who want to be challenged >> and there [clears throat] are eight levels of what they could they learn bal or or the shaklaria from the gammora and they get prizes. These are the boys that are that want to do better, even better. Now, imagine you're you're a parent and you get a call from Moshi. So, I want to tell you that you your son uh just um won a prize for bl is this is not my son's rebi. You're not my son's rebi are you? >> No, no, [clears throat] I'm beside your son's rebi. >> He he wanted to be challenged and his rebi suggested it and he did great and he's winning a the eighth level is a shas. So, so that's the type of of um of that we pride ourselves on. >> I I I what I hear very interestingly is how the executive director of the tuition committee is on and that's again a business like the true CEOs that wanted there again that want to build the biggest businesses possible. They go onto the field. They see you know what's happening on the playing field with their salesman and their HR department. And here we have the executive director who knows what's going on with each boy from nursery to base medish. I think that's you know again from my corporate background something [snorts] that's that signifies success. I want to ask one question which probably maybe a little bit off topic but I know [snorts] my generation I'm not so young but I'm not so old 38 years old. I know dinners have sort of lost their flavor a little bit. [clears throat] >> Mhm. Um our attention span is uh ne next or mine at least is probably very low. Um how much how how much comes out of a dinner and how do you navigate like what does a dinner produce and how do you navigate that problem? I'm sure you've >> So that's a very good question and we we acknowledge that uh that the dinner is we we used to have the dinner for after Sandy we had the dinner on the campus for years uh and and it was like a it was like a shar almost people came they [laughter] picture Robbie Bender they had something the smogus board and then >> they didn't necessarily stay for the program where we were able to honor people who deserve to be honored and also to show to show the yeshiva um where you could just sit back and look at what Yeshiva does. A lot of the things which I said to I said now are things which even show much better when you have a a filmmaker showing it. >> Um we can mention a number of filmmakers that are that do great jobs. Um and um we we we feel that we needed to have a formal dinner again where there's there's a program and I would say this and Rabbi Bender feels very strongly about this whatever you want to say let's say you don't like a dinner you do like a dinner you you go out to many events during the year you go out to maybe a parlor meeting you go out to you do a lot of things it's your son Shiva we ask you one once a year come to the dinner we're making a crest hollow this year. It's closer than than it's probably ever been uh for many years. Um >> and we're going to feed you. You'll you'll have a uh you'll have very excellent food and there'll be music and we're going to make the program as crisp as we can. Um, and whether you like it so much or you don't like it so much, it's a it's it's it's a pain, do it because that's what we we the yeshiva and your and your children deserve that once a once a year you devote a few hours in that in that context. That's number one. And number two is it's a a way that we raise money for the yeshiva. That's what a lot of the uh fundraising revolves around the honores. And um there are five wonderful honores this year. And whether you know them, you don't know them. If you do know them, you're definitely going to be there. If you don't know them, you know, it's again back to the it's your son's yeshiva. >> Mhm. >> So we we we hope to make it as enjoyable an event as possible. And um just one other thing, there's a thousand car parking, so you don't have to worry about parking. >> And it's a very beautiful place, Crest Hollow. So we hope to see everybody there. >> Wow. Um so the the dinner if you'd say in a short um is effective. >> Yeah. You know why everyone has dinners? >> Because probably there's no better way to do it. It may be >> I can't say it's the only way >> but no one has come up with a different way to do it. I think there was one said years ago >> that said we're not going to have a dinner this year. You know there was sort of a uh to try to try it and see if they could raise money. And you know what? The year after that, they went back to dinners because really it it could work for a year. But it it really the reason that that people have dinner is because that's what generates uh with the most effective way to to produce uh a turnout and to produce money for the yeshiva. [clears throat] >> Hear that everyone? Dinners are effective. They're significant and it's a big part of the budget. We just explained >> how the bud budget is segmented from tuition to and $78 million a year >> um >> is significant. So important uh for me to hear and for I think everyone else. Okay. So I we we uh touched on this a little bit before but I'd like to just you know sort of wind down the podcast with a very specific question. What are the main factors that you look at to determine who's middle class, who can afford full tuition, and who can afford less? >> Well, to full tuition is self- selection. In other words, they're not they're not applying for financial aid. >> Uh-huh. So, that's means >> we we love them, you know, we appreciate them. We love them. They're doing what what we need to need to that they can do. And and a lot of them are struggling to do that. >> Mhm. But that that [clears throat] goes back to the fact that that the parents are happy parents and they're struggling and they I want to pay full tuition. And many of them who could [clears throat] probably in a an objective um examination you would say, you know, you you could use some financial aid. They push themselves. They struggle >> to to do it and and call a cavote to them. >> Wow. >> So everybody else who does apply again, we customize it. So, it's not that, oh, you're in this tier or that tier. No, this is your income >> income. >> This is your expenses. This is your mortgage. This is how many children you're paying tuition for. That's why we ask for all the tuitions that you're paying. This is what your credit card debt is. This is um what's the prospects of you continuing employment, underemployment, uh did you have any exceptional expenses, medical expenses, did you make a wedding? These are all the questions that go into it. Mhm. >> So therefore, um, and and we thought in the past that we would say, you know what, let's see if there's certain key factors that would indicate that, um, and and we have reference points. Reference point is, >> yeah, >> what did they pay last year? >> Mhm. >> What changed, if anything, dramatically or significantly from last year that would indicate that they could pay more? >> Mhm. >> Or they could pay less. >> Mhm. >> What are they offering to pay? We ask them what what what would you what do you feel that you could pay you know and we understand that that sometimes is under understated you know and and but we we work with that as a reference point so there number of reference points that we make we we don't categorize them in uh middle class or lower middle class each person is treated individually and that takes the time >> right >> that we spend on it and um [clears throat] >> right >> right so There isn't really any one answer. It's obviously numbers and budgets. Um but you know, call it a cavode that it's so customized. So um just to wrap things up, uh it was really a a pleasure to have you and a privilege. And >> do you have any message to the parents um that you'd want to deliver to them when it comes to tuition? >> We understand that it's a big challenge and a struggle. We understand that 100% because I hear from everybody who's applying for financial aid that it's a difficult process and they don't like to fill out the financial aid application and we understand that and we we try to make it I suppose as smooth as possible in every other way. Um the message is uh that we hear you if you have any ideas. The one thing we're not going to do though is dilute the quality of the that's [clears throat] the one thing Rabbi Bender is not gonna sacrifice anything for the quality of the and and people vote with their feet or their tuition. They pay tuition to Torah. Oh, many people pay tuition detra because they're prepared to go to detra and if they can pay full tuition all the more better but if they can't they they try the the their darnest to pay whatever they can >> and we appreciate that. Again, I cannot say it enough and we try to make sure that we're treated properly, that you have the best that you can. And Hashem in the future, there may be ways that that that burden could be could be tweaked so that it won't be as as much of a struggle. uh if if the community in general and there are certain communities where federation has has stepped in but there many fewer schools >> so they [clears throat] can here in New York >> you know we we don't have have to tell you what uh how many yeshivas there are worthy yeshivas >> so [clears throat] but we we look forward to keeping you happy and remaining to be responsive on our part. >> Wow. So hopefully that'll dilute some of the negative press that that surrounds tuition. It's unbelievable. Really, I was it opened my eyes to what goes on from the other side. And really the podcast is designed to give people information that's, you know, from the inside. Um, but also if you have any comments, please send them over. Feedback is key. Uh, because we want to hear what you think. And again, thank you so much for >> my pleasure >> for coming on. Thank you for the privilege.