the melacha of borer by a fly in the soup & walnut shells, Rabbi shulem ber Levine -5785

Okay, shalom everybody and welcome. It is my honor and privilege to have with us Rabbi Sham Lean who is known many of his that he wrote on the and many of us when you're using Shabas we learn it with a lot of his extra comments that he writes and uh so when we just finished learning Hila's murder and we discussed that said one thing in the another thing in consider and we want to know if you could uh how do you deal with certain matters of murder I thought I'm going to go straight to the top the one and and anything that's detailed you got to go and really dissect so I asked Rab 11 Rab 11 doesn't need too many titles he's known the rebarian he wrote many a big and hopefully by the time we uh finish this year we'll we'll master at least Eastern General Hilkas Burger. Now, I don't know if everybody in our group Shabus group got Rabbi Rabbi Leven's uh uh handout. I didn't I don't know if it came up for every every group, but whoever has it, if you want to print it out, print it out. If not, you'll listen to Rabbi Le or George. The basic rules of the of the is explaining in the beginning of simu test by saying there are two kinds of one is when you have a mixture of you take out the it's In any case you do this it's the second kind of bearer is when you're taking out the ael and you leave the soilus this kind sometimes it's awesome and sometimes it is mutin Why is it different? Because when you have a mixture of and you take the you are not you're just eating like this. It's you take the food and you eat it. You're not separating them. If you take out the soilless that means you're separating them. But if you take out the to eat it's so therefore it's not but it has to know when you could take out one night is you should take it with your hands not with a special clay that is made for out. If you take it out with a special clay, it's not called. You're not eating, you're separating because you're separating it with a special ka. The second rule is that you have to do it before you eat, not 2 hours earlier. If you take out the food from the the oil from the 2 hours earlier and 2 hours later you are going to eat it. It's not there. You're separating them in order to be able to eat it 2 hours later. So there is two rules in this this header. In order to be able to do it, you have to do it with your hands and you have to do eat it right away within the hour or so. When people eat with forks and spoons, it changes. No, we're speaking about a ka that is made to separate, not made to eat. And as we will soon discuss the cases that you do it and you are still hive because you're doing it in a way that it is a ka made to separate a from sus. Let's see how the alter is explaining it in the beginning of sin sim shin he says even though It's not with the kale. Even though you're eating it right away, but still when you take out the it's considered separating. It's not considered They are special to separate. But if you eat it with your hands and you take out the to eat it right away, then it's called So if you want to eat, you take out the What is what is we'll discuss soon. That's the rules of beer. And now we'll go to Shabbat in the cedar that there are two paragraphs related to Ber and we have to understand that and we'll see what it says. First first case is I have it plate of soup that a fly fell in the no a sharp co I have a cup of tea and something fell into it I want to take it out I don't want to drink it so the only way to do it he says I spill out the fly or the sailors from the cup or from the plate and you could do it. Why? Since you're now in the middle of eating the soup from the plate or the tea from the cup and something fell in there, so you spill it out. It's considered and therefore you could we have to understand why it is. If you have a cup that something fell into it and you want to spill it out and you spill it out, so you're taking out the soil that's from the oil. If you have a fly fell into your plate of soup and you spill out the fly from the soup, you're taking out the sailors from the So why are you allowed to do it? And this explains because it's considered. Why is it considered? Because what you have in your hand, the plate or the cup, you're taking it out. You spill out the fly and you stay in your hands with a soup or with a tea. So even though you throwing out the fly, it is considered you throwing throw out the fly and you take your plate of the soup. So it's considered. But why is it called like that? When you spill it out, it should be considered like you spill out the fly or the other soilless and then stays in your hand. So why shouldn't be this be considered as then it's not allowed to. So in order to understand when when you spill out from a cup or from a plate is considered or when it is considered like we will see again whether alter explains in the first of simot. We will see what he explains in other and we will try to understand when it is considered and when it's considered. So when he says in the beginning of senior test one is considered and it's not allowed to because it's a so he says to kale just summarize what you just said for a minute you said that one of the smartest that even though you poured out the bug but because what's left in your hand is is the soup that would might people still considered service. Is that right? That's Yes. Yes. Even though you killed the bug out. Yes. Much of your hand is left to soup, it still could be considered maybe. Correct. And we will explain what the rules when you consider it like that and when not. So let's start with the first. He said if you do with a k it's also even though it's and it gives two some examples one is napo one is let's see what is napo and what is ko napo is when you have flour when you make the flowers in the flour is mixed in some of the pills of the wheat called mus or subin. And how you get it clean? You take you put everything in a sip and you zip it out. So the kak the flour goes through and falls into a pot under it. And what stays in your hand the pills the m or the subin. And he says it's considered soilless. And the only reason why it's also is because it's a that is made for that. Other ways you would be able to do it because it's which means that the goes through the sip into the and what stays in your hand is the so it's called not like we said before when you spill out from the plate what you spill out is spill out and what's you left in your hand is called that you're taking it. So both are called by the flow. It's because the you put into a ka and what's left in your hand is just left over and by a fly you say it's because what you take out from the plate is leftover and what you take in you when you plate that's what you're taking. So how does these two things combine? So he gives another sample in the first CF napo and what means quo is being explained more specifically in simin dallet when you make the you take out the you make do and you take out the ginian of the wheat and you make from it flour. So the straws that stay there is food for the bal for the behemoths. They eat it but they can't eat everything because there is the mites which is what's growing in top of the wheat. They can't eat it. So you want to separate give them only the the the the not the mos. How you divide the mos from the tan? The mos is very small thin like hair and the taven is large. So you take it in, you put it into a sip with larger holes. So all the M is passing by. Staying in the sip is the tan which is large and you're not allowed to do it because it's a special kale is made for that otherwise it would be because it's why is it because the stays in your hands and the goes way. So, how come? It's the opposite. The flower goes through and the stays in your hands. But the goes through and the te which is the stays in your hand. And they are both considered. So the I understand it like like this when you have flour and you sip it. So the flour goes into a kala. So when it goes into a ka that's what you put there. But the moss you don't put it in a ka it's garbage. You just dip it and throw it out. So what you do is you hold with your hands the the and whatever is the mites is garbage and going through not going to goes under ground. So then it's called what you hold in your hand, not what's going in garbage. But by the flower, it's going in a ka. So what's going in a ka you put it into a ka that's what you put there. So it's great. I I know that there discussion if you can use a peeler for carrots. We'll discuss it in the second half. But now you're reading out no peeling is the second half which is a separate subject. That's the second paragraph of the Shabbat. Now you would just trying to say how come in these two cases is considered and therefore we understand also what it says in when you get the fly out. You're not getting the fly in a you don't need the fly. You just get it out. What stays in your hands? The soup. That's the oil. So, you're taking it. Whatever is going to garbage, you're not taking it. It's going to way. That's my understanding of it. and we will try to see several more in how it works. Let's go in sing to see if when you have wine that has a lot of in the wine and you want to separate them. So you need a sip. But in the beginning when there is the in the bottom of the bottle and the top of the bottle of the ka is wine and it's not completely mixed. So you when you want to drink, you spill from the bottle into a cup and goes into the cup only wine, not the because you didn't get so low yet. So you allowed to do it. Why? Because you are taking you spill into a cup the wine that you want to drink. That's you're not spilling out the wine in the garbage. You spill it into a cup. So let's see how the Reb explains it is if you dress station. Here you spill it out with a clay, but it's not sipping. It's not a sip. You just spill it out with your hands. So you see again since the wine goes into a cup, you're taking the wine out of what's left. So therefore it's considered when will it be considered? So let's go in next in your test. In your test is when you fried with oil, French fry or whatever. After you finished, you want to take out only what you eat. So what do you do? You take the frying pan, you spill out the oil into another ka for tomorrow. And then what's left in the in the frying pan is the food. You're not allowed to do it on Shabas. Why? Because it's why is it considered you? What you left in your hand is theel. But when you throw it out from the frying pan into another ka, you want to use it. You want to fry with it tomorrow again. So you're not throwing it out. You're throwing it in. So you're throwing in the soilless. Why? Because you're not eating today the oil. You're eating today only the potatoes, the frying the potato chips. So that's the And when you're throwing out another, you're throwing out the cuz whatever you don't think you want to eat now is considered playlist. So you putting in the playlist into a ka. So then it's considered. Let's see how he explains it and see if you test. with the potato chips is called because you're putting into a K for tomorrow. Let's go now to see base. When they make cheese, they it it separates the milk into two parts. The good part of the milk becomes cheese, becomes salad and the water of it which is called kum is water and you throw it out. So when you want to eat the cheese, you spill out the water and you leave in your kalin the cheese. Well, you spill it out in a kalin. No, you don't need it anymore. So you spill it out in the sink. So what would be this be considered? Since you're not putting into a ka that you needed for later, you just peel it out. So you better bear what you left in your ka from the kum from the water. So, it's considered, let's see how he says it in you put it into a special zip. They go out. Why? Because what's going out is not going into a ka is going out. It's garbage. And what you have left in your ka is what you think what you need. So it's a but you're not allowed to because you this ka that you put it into is a special sip for the kum to go out and the cheese to stay. So it's like it's because whatever is going out goes to the garbage. You're not putting in to a and what you left in your house in your hands is you what you're taking. So it's but you're not allowed to because you do it with a special ka which is made for that. So if it's so that's why when you spill out the fly from the soup it's called and you're allowed to others are discussing that it doesn't fit with what it says in in tried to find the reasons why he changes his mind. But the way we explained it, the way they understand it is everything in shin and in the is all the same rule as we explained it. Now let's go now to the second part of the which is also related to beta and this is you wanted to ask something about you also before we move over to the next thing you want to add something. Yeah. Um so in you the sissue test um it doesn't seem to say anything about that you're pouring it into a kay and and but that's the way that you explained it and and it's I understand he doesn't say it he says that you need the shoeman for later and that's why it is considered soless because you don't need it for Now wait sus. So the human is called sus because you're not eating it now. But you eat it later. You need the sus for later. That's why it's called sus. So obviously if you need this for later, you're not throwing it out. So if Okay. So it when I read this if I understood that it was you could have been putting it directly into the sink there. So then you don't have to explain it that it's considered playlist because you need it for later. He says this you what you need now is what you need later is if you need later means that you put it into a that you need later. Okay. Okay. That's my understanding of this. Can I ask a question also? Yes. Um before earlier in the year you mentioned about there about doing something right away. Um why is it not considered if a person goes to sh in the morning? So I didn't go into that because we didn't learn that but he explains it in the beginning of shiny test that the time that people are starting to go out of sh and coming home then the lady in the house when she knows that now they're getting soon home. So when they prepare to go home it's considered la. But if they are still ding and they're still not preparing themselves to go home, it's not called la because you're not eating it now. That's what he explains in shin, but we didn't go into that because that's not our topic today. Okay. No, I just I'm not I don't why not have um you know, if let's say I don't have time. The suit is supposed to start let's say right away after let's say. So just not understanding why not say that the time before dying is called it's the only time I have time to prepare before the meal that was called for let's say 11:00 I don't know whatever okay but when you're still ding and you prepare it it's not there you're not eating it now you're not preparing now to eat now you're ding now when you finish ding you go home so that's why it's not Oh de you're not eating it now is now and what is the timet so I mentioned before like what now because since you finished ding you prepare to go home and then you go home you say shalom and then you vacu is about what it's the time but there is during the year somebody asked me what's somebody has a lot of guests what is your estimate for a lot a lot of people. I don't know what to tell you because when you do for a lot of people it's not always considered there I don't know I don't know the fa and he will say how to do it it's not always you have to do it like that you there are some things that you have to do and those things that you do la there is a problem not only there is more things is also outer and so it's always a question when you make the salat if you make it thin salat so question you have to do it only louder but that's not our subject today we will go now to the second paragraph in the sid which also needs explanation and there is a mus in there how to explain without let's start what he says. He says better don't eat nuts and shabas because when you eat nuts and you break it so it mixes the shells of the nuts and the food of the nuts. And then if you want to separate it natural you separate you take out the shells and you put it on a side. So that's considered and you and also m so therefore try not to eat it shabas unless you broke it open before shabas and you took away the shells before shabas. But then he says that the problem of bearer is if you break it and they are already separated but they are mixed in. But if as usually when you open the nuts with a knot opener, it breaks into two or three pieces and each piece has the knot in it. You still didn't separate them. So he says if you didn't separate it yet and you take out the shells it's not considered bare and you could do it the reason why I say you shouldn't do it in shabz because maybe it will separate and will be mixed and you will take out the shells so then it's considered better But if in every shell there is still a piece of food and you take out the shell, it's not considered. Why? You take out the shell. So you take out the sailors and we get to the the the fact that probably will mentioned before. You peel bananas or oranges. So what you peel out is you take away the salus. What is left you're going to eat. But now you're taking away the sailors. So why could we peel bananas or oranges and shabas? He says only the nuts we shouldn't do it but other food other food we could peel. Why? So let's see. There is a shi that says that you're not allowed pill and food and shabas. He speaks about because you take out the and you leave the food. So how do we peel fruit and chavas? So there is two shittas. One sh is the rush and the marshall. Let's see what the rush says. He doesn't ask like the shall be because in Bible it doesn't mention that. So he says you allowed to do it. Why are you allowed to? So he explains that when you have food in a pill, the pill is they're not separated yet. So it's all when you have a p orange, you don't have a pill and a fruit. It's all one. When you take it out, you take out it's not considered. That's what the says. He says in the like the case of the You clip him. When you eat fish, you take out them to or that are already taken out, but they are mixed. That's what the rush says. There is still room to argue what he exactly means, but explains it more. Explains it more. You're not taking away because there it's only one food and it's called that's the sh of the marshal and the that hold we do not pass like the army. Where is this rush? What? Where's the rush? Where's the rush? You if you have the page, it says in perfume is in perf memb. But there are more dozen pas like them here. Paskkins like the your shi. So why do we peel food? So there says in Shabas he says that yes the says it's also when when you're not eating it right away you peel up because in 2 hours from now you want to eat it. So it's considered you're not touching the you just take out the pills. Sure you take out the pills when it's mixed and you take out the food the food. So it's when you take out the the the pills but now you cannot come to the food unless you take away the so right you could say it's you're taking away the but it's there you can't eat any other way. So even if it's considered because it's their so therefore you are allowed to do it if you eat it right away. That's what the he speaks about garlic and onions says the mo of it's not only that in came after if you eat the apple you want to peel it up it's considered because you cannot come to the apple itself if you don't want to eat the pills. So it's their so it's their it's allowed if you eat it right away. But if you want to peel apples in order that later a few hours later you'll have guest and you want to give them it's not it's not their but it's considered. So now explains in of that here that we pass like the and therefore says that you because it's there. These are the two shittas. So according to one sheet of the the Russian the the you're allowed to peel oranges if you're going to serve it 3 hours from now because it's not it's all but the and the say that if you peel it's considered But if you leave it for late, it's but it's if you don't want to eat it now, you want to eat it in a few hours later, you're not allowed to. If you want to eat it now, you could peel it. Let's see now how the altern says for sure. Why? Because when you take off the pills, it's called that's the and you are allowed only when you eat right away. But if you eat later, you can't. Now we'll come to the dinner of the nuts that you bring the nuts and the nuts are still in the pills in the shells. So we said before that the says that you allowed to take the shells. Why the rash says because it's not ber because it is still in it. So it's already considered food all considered. So you could do it even if you don't want to eat it now if you want to eat it later. But the alterb let's see what the alterba says. He says in the next paragraph, like says, but he says only with your hands and it's not considered. He doesn't say it's not considered. It's not considered. Why? because it's their so it's considered like so therefore you allowed to do it with your hands if it's right away you shouldn't do it because later it mixes in it separates and mixes and you'll take it and you'll be a bit so now the says here like there are more and we're going home and that it's not it's considered like and therefore you allowed to only be ying not with the ka but is still that's what that's how explains and that's why he explains it like that I will be clear also. So he's pass like the Ram not like the Marshall but the is still thinking if it's possible that the alter hold like the R and the Marshall the Alter that's in Biscadia says, So why shall we say that the hold like the and not like the more and the so he's questioning dictator says that from what he says bey that he holds like the more and what is it that says when you eat fish and shabas there is the atomis in the fish. So there is big atomis and you have the small thin atomis like when you eat the herring you have the small thin atomus in the herring. When you want to take out that Thomas of the herring according to the marshal you could take it out the wife doesn't want the the husband and the children should have when they eat the the having they should have to pull out the small atomis it's a whole uncomfortable task so she does it in the says there mash you could do it because as long they are still together it's not considered creepage it's considered food so you take it out but according to the magnaf and the and and the gam you are allowed to do it because it's Because you can't eat it with this together. So you are allowed to do it only before you eat while eating. But you're not allowed to do it 2 hours earlier. So says the big one you could take out the food. this small one. You cannot take out the food from this small thing at Thomas. You have to take out the Thomas which is but you're allowed to. But if it's not considered as that you could do it more to say that you could do it. So the difference is according to that you could take out the small thin atoms from the earring an hour two hours earlier but according to what they say explains in the alter then you could still take it out but only while they are coming from sh and preparing themselves to eat. So in what way is that is different than watermelon seeds? Watermelon seeds you also you definitely can't do it early but could you do it summer? That's also the same thing is that like the shells of the gazim and like the thin atomis of the herring. You could do it before the before according to the you could and according to Ramo you could do it only close to the Yeah, but you don't have to put it in your mouth and spit it out. Who says that you should put it in? We discussed that means taking it away before you put it into the mouth. Okay. But the iron people m they don't take it out. They don't. It's not because in the watermelon there is not a problem. Even if you eat in the middle of the week, you're going to eat it together and then take out the the ginium. And the same thing is also by by uh when you eat grapes and it has little gin, you take it out your mouth and then you take it out. Much easier than taking out. But you can take it out before. But it's hard. Huh? It's hard. Yeah. You could hard makes it even makes it even a bigger problem. But you could because it's like pills. You can't take out the food from there. You could only take out that from the food. So it's considered if while you eat it's considered there. So you said it now the peeler for a apple the pillar for apple is also neg to that according to the not allowed to use a pillar for apple and chabis because the pillar is a and you are doing it only when you peel it with a pillar it's not called the but if you peel it with a knife it's not made for that. So then you could you could probably could but according to Rasha you could even do it with a pillar because it's not considered silence. So what's the problem? It's like cutting an apple four pieces. Yeah. Okay. Sure. Do you want to ask a question? Cuz I want to I want to I want to try I want to try to corner. Oh, give me a minute. Let me try to have coffee presses. Uh they actually come not you know today everybody filtered water and then they have they make press forget about the B part up the coffee not the coffee whatever is it from beans or from the beans are are taken and after it's brown the grains ground. You put the water forget there is not no nothing to talk about because this is like an even if it's considered but when it's a made for that you're not allowed to do it anyways. down the I don't know you know where else what was the other thing the uh what was the other thing we had was the other one the other issue with that one about the coffee the French the French press the French press that's what they do there's also there's a water pitcher with the filter mentioned They only do it with water out of a filter picture. It's another subject. Has nothing to do with what we discussing today. But what it says in that if you could drink it with a but that's what it explains in if you could drink it without separating then you could separate because you're just making it better. But if you cannot do it, drink it without, then you're separating. You're not allowed to. So therefore, they said those people that don't drink water because there are little objects inside and they don't want to drink it because or whatever, they are not allowed to separate it. But if you don't care and you just want it better, then you could separate it. That's another subject has nothing to do with what we are discussing today. I'll get you you ask. Okay. I have a question about if you're saying it's to eat a fruit or anything like that um based on the fact that the only way to get to the is by taking out or removing the masal that um or whatever. So if let's say you have a bowl of lettuce and on top the whole bowl of lettuce is covered on top with like bad lettuce and the only way to get to the good lettuce is on the bottom. Uh the har doesn't seem to mention that right? It doesn't mention that. It mentions only if there's mixed there is part like this and part like that. If you take it, you can't take it out. But if you could come to the inside only when you take off the B the top, it's like the pills. So that would be good. If you can if you have to come there in order if you have to take it off in order to get to the inside. Yes. Alma. Alma, you want to ask something? Yeah. My question was regarding the apple peeler. If it is, even though it's a isn't it still and because the the according to the it's but doesn't help when you do it with a that is made for that. Why? Because because it's not considered when you do it with a special ka that is made for that. It's not called. You're not eating. You're just doing it with a special ka. So that's why when you have the same thing, you want to eat only the inside and but you do it with it's not considered their because it's a killer that is made for that. My my question is about the status of the peel. The status of the peel is considered silus. Why it's considered pleas? Because you don't want to eat it, but it's considered because you want to be able to come to the food, right? So when it comes to a mean even if one is one is a if it's mean which means the cheater of the then you could do the pill too because it's not it's not considered but according to the it is considered but it's so if it's a that is made for that is not considered understand thank Yeah. Yeah. Just a general question about later after you eat on Shabas and you want to clean the table. So, how does it work? you you have let's say let's say dishes and and forks and then you have the garbage in the plate and and you want to or or or let's say you have paper plates and you have obviously obviously it is not uh not part of but in general there is two kind of pills or leftover there is leftover that you could eat which is not m that He's going I'm asking about boiler about boiler be like let's buy why boiler everything that stays there goes into garbage. You want let's say I have paper plates and I and I have um forks like silverware and I take and I want to put the forks in the in the sink and I'm putting the plates in the garbage with the with the with the garbage. How do you do it in a way that's not like I don't know what to tell you and there is more questions like that. Let's say let me ask you a much simpler question. The governing shul comes to you give them. Yeah. After you take away all the you put them on the place and they stayed with the sidur by by kim it's the same thing. So the what you the sidurim are called like and this since you need it for next week is considered like and you're taking away all the you put it in on the place. So it's so I'm not to do it but some see not I'm just taking the putting him out of place. So all these things is not a clear there's no clear understanding in that the whole mentions. Okay. And the and the tables. Okay. They all eat sandwich. There's no problem in seamage kiss because you eat with your mouth the food and you throw away the others. You're not separating them. You're not taking away the shells after they are mixed. It's not ma because when you put it into your mouth, it's not muk yet. And what is after that it's left in your m in your hand. When it's left in your hand it's you're allowed to you when you it becomes m and you still have it in your hands you're allowed to keep in your hands till you put it away. Yeah. They make piles on the table. That's why it's considered but shells of nuts it's not with you. So it's not considered that's why he says in in that the shells of the nuts you're not allowed to take off the table only with special ways but it's not simple. So even if you eat that, that's what the what the Reb says that the nuts is considered m because it stays on the table and you can't take it off only if you take the whole tish with some of it is food. It's a whole a whole complicated subject and that's why it's also a problem also by the night seder. When you peel the eggs, each one has the its egg. So the eggs, the pill of the eggs is not considered food. It's not like the orange pills. And there's a problem of taking it off the table. And when you start eating, you want to take off this eggs shelves. So, it's a problem. When I do it in my house, they bring the garbage can near the table. Each one is peing the egg and throwing the the pills direct into the garbage can. But they don't leave it on the table because otherwise there will be a problem with it. But that's already in not in I don't know if you want to that's not for today. Okay. I'll put it in the same there's two paragraphs. Each one speaks about another subject and the obvious is a complicated subject. It's not on one end. Okay. Anybody else before it's over time? Anybody else? Michelle. Yeah. I want to about the malit that we were talking about mas I'm not going to touch today the subject of mus is a complicated subject and a separate subject and we're not going to touch it today what the nuts where it says it has three shells going breaking the nuts breaking the nuts is the part of dh not of part of Bayer which is a separate subject. Okay. Yeah. When you when you mentioned about oranges and bananas um so you said it's d aila to peel them because it's impossible to eat them otherwise. Uh I you could eat them otherwise. You could you could uh cut the orange uh with the peel on it into a few sections and you could eat the inside out. But when you peel it, it's because you want to get without cutting it, you want to get to the fruit and that's what the says. But if you want to eat it now, it's even though you could theoretically cut it in pieces and and eat it in a different way. Okay. Thank you very very much. I'm sure this helped us out a lot. And I guess kids in