Exclusive Interview with Gavriel Sassoon

Hi, this is Paris Burke Iikler in deal on the Jersey shore. A summer day when this part of the uh the state becomes filled with people that come to enjoy the weather, the shore and all the bounty of this area both religiously and culturally. But for some like Rabbi Gabriel Sassoon, it's a time of reflection, a time of thoughtfulness, a time of remembrance, a remembrance of a tragedy that happened just a few short months ago when seven of his children were killed in a tragic fire in their home in Brooklyn. For him, coming to deal is a way to reinvigorate, to remember, to commemorate, and to inspire others to take the message of this tragedy into meaningful moments in their lives that will make a difference in people's lives. And he's going to be speaking to us about that right here in this exclusive interview. But the words and thoughts that he's going to say are things that you're going to be hearing much more now as he takes his message around the state, perhaps around the country, and around the globe. It is filled with meaning, a message for all of us. Real Gabriel, if I may call you Gabriel, it's the summer. It's deal. It's several months after the tragedy that took your seven children. It must be so difficult for you now that now you're beginning to speak on a on a broad scale to people. Why why are you at this point starting to go out and to really speak about what happened? The Yeah. The reason I'm doing it is because um I don't want my children's lives to go to waste. You know, they were madeshim. It moved people. It opened up their hearts. They want to change. I don't want I want to take advantage of that opening to continue uh delivering messages of and so that their life shouldn't go to waste to maximize their uh sacrifice. When you say amuna, yes. Is the amuna that you have now different than it was prior to the tragedy? And and if so, how how is it manifest? How does it show? Um, that's a good question. I feel like I'm the same person before and after. But the difference the way I do have a difference how I look at the world. Before I was busy with my learning, my kids and it seemed like everybody else was fine. I never saw suffering by people. Everyone seem to have a pretty good life. Everyone's learning, everyone's this and I also saw a lot of like you know you have different groups of people and they don't interrelate but since the fire I changed my attitude towards AmIrael completely because I see the oneness in AI is the oneness started becoming from how they all gathered around me during the funeral how they all cared from all walks of life and I still continue to see that outpouring of love and care and how we're really all one. So from my personal perspective, I see the oneness. It was hard for me that Amusa wasn't one all these years. It was used to bother me and I saw it was only my percept now I realize only my limited perception. It was like that. But we're really one on a deep level. And another thing I see different is how much people are suffering. I didn't realize how much people were suffering because now when I go out I talk to people I see in their eyes how much they're suffering, how much they all need love, how much they all need and direction. Like people are living lives they don't know what they want out of their lives. You know they didn't get they didn't get a yeshiva or to education so they go run after materialism and doesn't make them happy family problems. You're finding that this is something across the board of the economic spectrum. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. So I see all over I go people are suffering and I never knew it was so deep and so widespread. It seemed like everyone was okay. So maybe they became more compassionate. I don't know. That's what I see. That's the those are differences I see. But I think I'm the same. Yeah. One of the things that you said, Reb Gabriel, in previous interviews was that you didn't know how you'd be able to go on. Yeah. And yet obviously you are going on, right? What what would you tell somebody else who feels like that's it? I can't go on. It's not worth going on. Right? So if you feel like that so what I told also is like you have to surrender those emotions and those thoughts those are just thoughts you're thinking about the future which is all in your thought it's not real or you may be thinking about the past which is al also all in your head it's not real the only thing real now is the present moment and that you could control you could control your thoughts and emotions people think you can't but you have to train yourself that you could and just let it all go to Hashem and then you'll feel good and then next step when you get to the next step you let that go again. You go step by step and by step by step you'll see that you you travel the great distance but looking forward after such a tragedy or any kind of suffering that you have that you feel like you can't go on that's just the etera and and your thoughts saying I can't make it I can't make it and you create you make it a reality because you're telling yourself those things so you have to be aware of how you're thinking aware of your emotions and then let that go surrender that to Hashem you know that's it's really your ego because Hashem has greater plans for you is totally compassionate. He's totally loving and all the suffering that's you you're creating the suffering. Hashem gives you tests. Hashem gives you he gives you challenges but he doesn't create evil. You create the evil by thinking this is horrible. This is terrible. I can't go on. But if you say oh this is another test for me to it's another uh hurdle for me to overcome you know and it's too big of a hurdle. So okay so break it down just this moment. Can you surrender to yourself for just this moment? Can you see feels Hashem's love just for this moment? And I think that would help tremendously. Let me ask you this and this is a painful difficult question also, but from people that were not so observant, you know, heard, yes, it's a terrible tragedy, but don't you people say that the shabas is supposed to keep you if you keep the Shabbat? So what would you tell somebody like that? So someone asked me a similar question. How come such a person like you did everything right at Sadik or whatever have such I said Hashem's ways are so much deeper. It's not Ted for tat hashkah is so deep you don't even know what his plans are and what he's doing. You know you have sadiklo and sadiko those are the deepest questions and there there are answers but it's a whole you know philosophical thing. It's not time now to get into it. But uh you know if you make a bell sur the reward is very great. It's very great. You don't know. I don't know. I don't know what my reward is. I'd rather have my children. That's the biggest reward for me. But um I don't know. I don't know what to expect. But Hashem knows what he's doing and everything is for the best. And if you know that that gives you a u a piece peace of mind because I see it in my own limited way how it should be. Hashem has you know he loves you more than you could even imagine more than he loves yourself. He wants the best for you more than you want for yourself. So uh you have to trust him in terms of when you say to trust in medamuna and buff. This is a subject that now you're going to be speaking to groups around deal. coming to Lakewood and other places. What are you going to be saying in terms of what you're talking about here? What what other things will you say to to fortify people? What's the gist of what you're going to be saying? I don't know yet. Okay. I don't know that the truth is in my experience like you know I learn so I know what to say but it then just becomes another shear right and it doesn't it's not so effective. People are much more affected. I saw when I'm much more simple speak from my heart and just say my feelings and that's that's more effective. So I guess that's how I'm going to do it. I don't prepare whatever comes to my mind I speak. Like in the funeral I was so broken I couldn't even uh say anything but Hashem just gave me this gave me that I put it together. Whatever came came and it affected people because it was from my heart. I it wasn't prepared. Someone said did you prepare? I said how could I prepare? I'm not in such a state I could prepare. But uh it's like you know so because I rely on Hashem when you like when you surrender he comes and he helps. So that's what's happening. Baruk Hashem your wife has just returned from the hospital. Yes. Have you begun conversation with each other to talk about where you go from here? Yeah we did. So um when she she wasn't induced uh coma for Wabas of the pain. So I think a month and a half for like a month and a half. So the world changed a lot since then you know she doesn't know what happened. So I was explaining to her like a lot of people are being moved the kids are affecting a lot of people. They want to do chuva. I did it I was telling her to encourage her to make her feel that she's succeeding in life because the whole purpose for a parent a Jewish parent is want they want their children to grow up to make Shamim. So I told her you were you were successful shamine and you don't know it's not the same place and now you know we have to do I I told her I'm already you know whatever I say it's affecting people so now it's your turn the women are waiting for you they're waiting for you and uh she has much more natural imuna than I do. I I have it all from learning Torah and you know working on myself. she just has it naturally, you know, like I guess a woman imun of a woman is on a different level. And um so I so I'm encouraging her that she should, you know, when she's ready, when she's more healed, that she should go out and we even make a joke like because I'm I'm a very private person, you know, I was very modest in Sanua. I never expose my feelings and thoughts. Even my wife, she says, "I had to pry it out of you what you were thinking and feeling all the time. I mean, I'm your wife and now you're going around you you're you're openly expressing to the public what you're thinking and feeling. So, she was laughing about that, but uh you mentioned Gabriel that you've seen an effect on people in these in this short period of time. Yeah. What type of things have you seen that has made a real intangible effect other than wow it's such a tragedy and we feel terrible and you know how are you feeling about it? What changes have you actually seen been implemented taken on by people on people? They they're looking for more meaning. They're looking when I look in people's faces, I see um love for some reason. I see um desire to connect. I don't know if it's connect to me or connect to Hashem. They're just looking for more. some there Gdoleim told me basically this happened to raise the amuna of amrael to um to get them ready to receive Messiah. So you know all there's been a lot of tragedies lately. So and as it's happening people are opening up and have they're forced to look for deeper higher meaning and so just thinking the world is coincidence and things just happen and it's random. You had said that you looked upon the tragedy as a kapura. Yeah. As an atonement. How how would somebody understand that? How would you explain that to somebody? See, for me it's a nama for me that was and you know was a day that were taken as kobanas of fire in uh when the the day of the hakamasa mishkan. So you know it's kadesh they were the closest to Hashem Hashem or Hashem was was u was mikadesh himself through their death. So I don't know if it's true or not but I feel that my kids are sparks of Nadav everywhere and they're doing the same thing and kadesh not doesn't mean he takes the closest one but he makes everybody closer the the the the pain and the suffering the crying that everyone's sharing with me and uh not being understand how such a thing could happen that makes him close to Hashem it's another step it's it's not that you You know, so I think the kapara itself is that they get close to Hashem that the amuna expands and they know there has to be something deeper and they're searching for more that that itself I think is the result of the kapara. I understand that there's a safety which is going to be written. Yes. Can you tell us about that and how one would participate and will it be Ashkanazm Sephard? Oh, so there's a few sephrator I heard of. Uh the Chicago community already made one for me. um Msaskki who helped me in the tragedy they don't have enough cphrra to give out in city shiva right so every you know Monday and Thursday they need sephr they don't have enough so they want to they want to make seven cphrra one for each of my children they made the first one already it was very fast the the community there got together very quickly so miss if you could get in touch with miss they're looking for six more the my boys learn in Israel is making a safer Torah also for them for my boys. Um I was there they started when I was in I said for the schlloim I was there I wrote I wrote the first letter and uh they're going to start trying to complete it. You said, Re Gabriel, that you looked at at the at the death of your beloved children as as almost a mandate, as something that compels us to do something. How do you see it as a as a mandate? What what do you want when people hear you speak, when people listen to you, aside from the sympathy, perhaps even empathy, if that can be possible, what do you want people to do as you see as this mandate as you put it, whether the person is religious or not religious, right? So this bas basically you have to be a better person and everyone I don't know what to say but everyone has to look into their heart see what's missing and grow and when I advise people they come to me like I the way I raise my children with so much love and so much nephesh so I say you want to make a world a better place start first with shalom bite work on your shalom bite because when this when the relationship between the husband wife is strong then that's the basis for the children to have feel secure pure and feel loved and then work on you know uh being the children properly understand them. Don't negate them because what happens is in the day-to-day life they get in your way. You have to do this you have to do that and you forget about the child. You go okay later or you shout at them that they're bothering you. But what happens in the end is everybody knows the moments you remember the rest of your life are the times you spend with your children and not the times that you're busy with doing something else that they were in their way that you don't forget. you don't you don't remember at all. It's it's you know like even like no one would give their child away for a billion dollars but you know you're in business you have to make money so you don't spend time with your children instead so you're selling him out for a few dollars. So you know the craziness of life makes you think crooked. So you have to keep focused what's important in life all the time and not wait for tragedy to realize what's important and live that way all the time and not just with children with others as well but if the children are raised my children were raised with uh my wife was very devoted to them and I was also devoted to them and we raised them in the way of Torah mitzvah they had so much love that they had so much self-esteem they they naturally did with others and they were also a magnet to others they weren't loud they were very modest but their natural that they had from growing up with Torah mitzvah and love just attracted people and they did naturally with other people because when they see things weren't right they would fix it if someone was being teased or someone was unhappy my ch my child would befriend them all of them were like that and that comes from being loved and being having self-esteem and so if the children grow up that way naturally there would be you could affect the whole community otherwise you have to work kind on a you know much harder level like you have to go out of your way and teach others how to think and that but if naturally you have self-esteem it's easier to have a it's easy to have a society that reflects Hashem's uh aas so um so and and it's to do that you have to like the breaking the breaking of midas on yourself like you have to stop you don't do what you want you do what's right you do what's best for the other you learn to become selfless You have to control your anger or control your frustration or your grief and do what's right and you become a much greater person in that process as well. So it's it's it's a win-win situation. You know, you have to just have the right hashkafa and then this way you could change the world. You change yourself while you're changing the world. And uh you know to mitzvah is our guide and you know then you care about others. You're non-religious people as well. And if non-religious people, you know, they also need meaning in life. So, you know, like what I see is I teach them to get away from the materialistic uh pursuits. There's higher ideals. It'll make you happier. Um it'll make you more fulfilled and that's what Hashem wants from you. Um yeah, you know, there's so many angles to it, but that's basically it. Have you interacted and spoken with people that are from the non-religious population of the Jewish community? And what has their reaction been? Um, have you seen any change within the context of people you met who are not yet shown? Most people that ask me to speak or come in touch with me are the religious people and I would like to reach out to the non-religious people as well. But I don't go out looking. I just get phone calls and I say, "Okay, because I'm not at that stage where I'm making a business out of it or whatever. Maybe I have to. I don't know." But uh like I might team up with organizations that do koof and use that use that as a as a power base like I you know um but it's something that you feel compelled to do though the desire to do it that it should not be something which as you said went in vain that the message should be taken and and utilized and implemented. Yeah, I would like that. I mean it's I'm saying I don't know if I said it's a mandate but it's like more like they're doing a for me. I mean so not really for me it's really for themselves but you know for the make world a better place and I want my kids uh uh the impetus that they started shouldn't be forgotten. I mean, would you give a a bra to all those who are be privileged to be able to see this and um you know where you're going down the line with it. We're going to give everybody else a braha to be able to feel the sense of obligation that you do. Um, so I who but we should all have clarity so we know what's right, what Hashem wants, and we're not uh sidetracked by the little things of life and keep our focus straight, what's important, loving others, doing mitzvah, and helping others, and going out and influencing the world to make a world a better place. We could bring the gula as soon as possible. on me. Thank you very much. Thank you.