The Jews and Meat during the 40 Years in the Desert

Going back to the overwhelming majority of today's daf, which was the machlokes between Rabbi Yishmael and Rabbi Akiva, which we mentioned in the introduction, really revolves around nine pesukim tucked away in Parshas Shray, in perek beis, starting from pasuk chof, going through pasuk chof ches. Where the pasuk seems to suggest that there was some before or after. There was some relationship that the Yidden had with meat during the 40 years that they were in the midbar that was going to change dramatically once the Yidden entered Eretz Yisrael. According to Rabbi Yishmael, the relationship was when the Yidden were in the midbar, they were not allowed to eat basar taiva. When the Yidden entered Eretz Yisrael, then they were allowed to eat basar taiva. The Gemara qualified that [snorts] this that Rabbi Yishmael holds that when the Yidden in the midbar, they were not allowed to eat basar taiva, it means something that was really like krov, something that could have been put on the mizbeach. Remember it can't be something that couldn't be put on the mizbeach such as the tzvi and the ayil. That's something that if they wanted in the midbar, they would have been allowed to eat in the midbar. Rabbi Akiva held that the unique relationship that Yidden had with meat in the midbar was that if they wanted to eat meat, they could eat meat, not like Rabbi Yishmael, but they were allowed to eat even basar nachira, they didn't have to do shchita. When the Yidden entered Eretz Yisrael, that's when it was nischadesh the laws of shchita. The Gemara qualified it with a very critical caveat, and that is that was only true with regards to basar chul, but as relates to basar kodshim, kodshim shaini, the immortal words, and over there Avada there was a law of shchita. But here's the point. We have a parsha in the Torah, nine pesukim, that seems to be describing something extremely fundamental as it relates to the relationship the Jews had with meat during the 40 years they were in the midbar, and Rabbi Yishmael and Rabbi Akiva had two completely different ways of seeing it. And what emerges is in the world of Rabbi Yishmael, there was an issur basar taiva in the midbar, and in the world of Rabbi Akiva, there was a heter boss in the shira during the 40 years that the Yidden were in the midbar. Said a little bit differently, when the Yidden entered Eretz Yisrael in the world of Rabbi Shimon, they got this incredible gift, this kullah, that from this point forward there will no longer be an issur boss b'ta'ameiha. According to Rabbi Akiva, when the Yidden entered Eretz Yisrael, they got this chumrah. They were told from this point forward there's no longer going to be a heter to eat boss b'ta'ameiha, but rather from this point forward you're going to have to do shchitah. So we mentioned the cliffhanger, that really the machlokes of Rabbi Shimon and Rabbi Akiva affects another parsha in the Torah, in the pshutei hamikra, exactly how you're supposed to understand it. And by the way, just as a disclaimer, as relates to this rebbe, the objective over here is not to say anything fancy at all. The objective is to just lay out this in a little bit so that b'ezras Hashem we have the foundation of this machlokes with Rabbi Akiva, and I'll give us something to build off of in the next few days. But again, today's the day to try our best to have an understanding and internalize this very, very important machlokes regards. So what's this other parsha in the Torah? It's in parshas Acharei Mos. It's Revi'i. It's perek Yud Zayin, pasuk Yud Alef. The pasuk says, "Vayedaber Havaya el Moshe leima. Daber el Aharon ve'el banav ve'el kol benei Yisrael ve'amarta aleihem, Zeh hadavar asher tzivah Hashem leima. Ish ish mibeis Yisrael, any Yid asher yishchat shor oy kesev oy eiz b'machaneh, who's going to the side to shacht shor oy kesev oy an eiz b'machaneh, meaning anywhere in the machaneh, oy asher yishchat michutz lamachaneh, or better yet, he's going to the side to shacht outside of the machaneh, v'lo Pesach oy oy oy oy v'lo karban Hashem, but he chose not to take this animal and bring it as a carbon to Baruch Hu, Mishkan this person is like because this year has to know it's not okay to just go ahead and bring animals rather he has to bring it to the Mishkan he has to bring it to the Mishkan and You know what you're supposed to do with it? You're supposed to bring it as a carbon this I'll miss this and the coin is supposed to take from the blood and he's supposed to do his Victor and by doing this he'll be protected like this you'll be distanced you'll be removed from make sure you observe this forever. This that we just read is what's known in the as the right this is the that says that if somebody he's take a look at Rashi says this is talking about if somebody goes ahead and he and he or he that he's and there's a whole and then the 13th and the 14th part >> [snorts] >> this is a continuation of it that deals with these that of and by the way if you go over here in the next says and that is talking about if somebody takes the he takes the of a carbon and he's not in the bear, but rather this going to be like the first half of the parsha is what's known as the parsha of and the second is a lot but the bottom line is this is the way every single person that ever went coaching in his life understood these stating that think about this person for a minute. Did the person say a word about coaching? Did it say one word about coaching? And say word about coaching. And he just didn't bring it as a carbon. Now he says that she said Did the person say the word coaching? The person didn't say one word about coaching. >> [laughter] >> That I believe when they even were in the midbar This person over here of this not like he says about the dabba. I need this person is talking about as well. And what the person is saying is that is not allowed to eat when he's going to be in the midbar. So that that he is going to go ahead and he's going to share the coaching is true for coaching but not true for coaching. But it's true for as well. Because if he is going to go ahead and he's going to share as well. Essentially what is he doing? He's eating the dabba. And for him to go ahead and to eat the dabba that was also for the 40 years that they even were in the midbar. And I'm just reading the person it doesn't say a word about I believe that the way would be this person. The way would be I wish person. That this person is talking a feel of in fact the Ramban says that to me in the who had no but possible I just read the of the possuk I'm learning as I'm >> [snorts] >> the right now that's my objective in my commentary on the table and I think it's possible that in the there's no mention of the word why did Rashi say that I know why Rashi said it Rashi probably said cuz Rashi wanted to be the and according to for sure there was no of when the even everything was so for sure this would not have been an issue I don't think that's the way it is and then the Ramban goes on and the Ramban says that I looked at all the of the say prices and the of these and his washing is because and that's why I prefer being as I live I prefer not be in other words Rashi who learns the of the of the the of the was going a little bit Rashi but I think that in the world of Rashi the way you would learn the of the of the is not the but rather it's talking even about the of the of the what emerges then is is this of the of the which comes up over and over and over again especially when you're learning say the we have tremendous head on the stand in the according to Rashi Ishmael, holds that was an issue of Ta'avah when the year they were in the midbar, well then what would emerge is is that this issue was not only in the mid mukdashim, but it was in the chulin as well. According to Rabbi Akiva, there was a heter to eat basar ta'avah, so what's the problem if you're going to go ahead and you're going to eat chulin? Oh, the issue must be in the mukdashim. Now, if you think about it in Rabbi Ishmael's world, it's a unbelievable chiddush later in Ben's learning. Because what emerges is is that this halacha of there being an issue to eat basar ta'avah in the midbar, it manifested itself in such a chiddush that not only was the year not allowed to eat basar ta'avah, but if he would eat basar chulin, just to eat it, he would eat basar chulin, he would already be liable for that. That's a chiddush al gabei chiddush. As I stated in the back, but the bottom line is the bottom line is that what we have here is another parsha in the Torah that has a tremendous nafka mina in terms of this machlokes is Rabbi Ishmael and Rabbi Akiva exactly how to learn this parsha. According to Rabbi Akiva, it was in the mukdashim. According to Rabbi Ishmael, it would be true for chulin as well. By the way, if you take a look at Tosafos right here in chulin daf bet, and if you take a look at Rashi dibra maskil nestle ta'avah, it's the bottom Tosafos on the amud, and it's [snorts] Rashi dibra maskil nestle ta'avah. Rashi and Tosafos already allude to this machlokes Rashi and Ramban. You want to make the cheshbon but very much allude to this machlokes Rashi and Ramban that we have in the Pirkei Avot, I tell you, that this machlokes Rabbi Ishmael and Rabbi Akiva is not only in the chulin, how you learn Devarim perek bet, but it's also in the chulin, how you learn Vayikra, it's also in the chulin, how you learn Vayikra perek bet. So again, two parshas in the Torah that emerges as being a subject to this machlokes between Rebbi Shmuel and Rebbi Akiva. But the emes is, there's another derech over here in this machlokes, and I think it's critical to speak out. And that is the shita of the Rambam in his Yad Chazaka. This is in Hilchos Shechita, it's perek daled, it's halacha yud zayin, and it's halacha yud ches. I just want to read a little bit of leshon ha'azov shel ha'Rambam. Rambam says as follows, the other way in the midbar, lo nistavu bishchitas achulin. They were not commanded shchitas achulin. They could do nechirah or they could shecht, and they were able to eat. The Rambam says, let's be honest, kishar hagoyim. As I explained it, if that's something that they wanted to do, that was something that they were allowed to do. Now, let's just pause for one second. Who is the Rambam clearly being machri like in the machlokes between Rebbi Akiva and Rebbi Shmuel? This is Rebbi Akiva. That there was a heteira basara acher when they were in the midbar. But you have to be very careful here. Says the Rambam, but there when nistavu bamidbar, the Yidden stating that weren't commanded in the midbar, shekol ha'rotzeh lishchot, that if anybody wants to shecht, he should only shecht the shlamim. She nemer the pasuk says, "Ish ish mibeis Yisrael ve'hager asher ya'aleh olah ve'gomer, el ha'machaneh lo yevi'enu ve'gomer, ve'zos chukas ha'shlamim la'Hashem oisah." But they were commanded, says the Rambam, that if somebody wanted to shecht, you have to shecht the shlamim, you have to shecht dafka nazor. But if you wanted to not shecht, all you wanted to do was nechirah, this is something that you were allowed to do. Hear what's going on in the Rambam? The Rambam is learning like Rebbi Akiva, not like Rebbi Shmuel. The Rambam is learning that there was a heteira basara acher when they were in the midbar. But the Rambam is first is learning the parshas Chukas Ha'Aretz, not like the Rambam in Sifrei Im Koshin and all those Rambams in the Katchum B'Yad. galoches. This is sweeter. This is in the Kadusha volume as we spoke about in the introduction to the after. This is not in the in the avoid the volume of the Rambam's. Over here the Rambam says that you want to know what this talking about it's talking about possible that's what's going on over here. But in Rabbi Akiva's world why would it be a lot of for possible doctor Rambam I'm going to tell you what because even though they were allowed to eat possible here. But at the same time if you wanted a chef you had to chef after in the base of that was something like the Rambam you had to do. The Rambam said this time but he said in the Rabbi Shimon said came on the following in in in the from the Rambam to say that Rabbi Akiva's world where you can eat possible possible this means it's what they hold on holding with the here of all this and all that. The Rambam says in all this who are knows the whole of I think the for sure is telling me there's an issue what they hold on holding with Rabbi Shimon who also has an issue possible not only can I eat the possible I can't even chef it and if I chef it I'm even going to be cars. But the Rambam like Rabbi Akiva Rabbi Akiva like the nice say the Rambam like Rabbi Akiva and I feel he learned the maker of my story and the Rambam said I prefer to learn the maker he was in the identical way but he did it in Rabbi Akiva's world the Rambam couldn't be massive where Rabbi Akiva's world would be manifest this maker from the what do you mean it's very simple if you wanted to possible here you can eat possible here you want to eat possible you can eat possible here. But here's the rule this is what you got to know if you want to eat possible make sure you eat it in the base of bring it as a and then and only then are you going to be able to go ahead and eat it in that way but here's the point the Rambam is being the maker in the same exact way that the Rambam is with one huge caveat and the huge caveat is that the Ramban only heard that shot in Rabbi Yishmael's world. The Rambam was able to entertain this shot even in Rabbi Akiva's world. Meaning, Vayikra perek Yud Bet, for sure how you learn the parashah is the machloket of Rabbi Yishmael and Rabbi Akiva. What about Vayikra perek Yud Zayin? Devarim perek Yud Bet, that's for sure the machloket. What about Vayikra perek Yud Zayin? The way the Ramban learns it's this machloket. It's the identical machloket of Rabbi Yishmael and Rabbi Akiva. There's two drachim how to learn Devarim Yud Bet. There's two drachim how to learn Vayikra Yud Zayin. But as it relates to the Rambam's sheet, the Rambam said no. Devarim Yud Bet, yeah, that's the machloket of Rabbi Yishmael and Rabbi Akiva. That's Chullin daf Yud Zayin. But as it relates to Vayikra perek Yud Zayin, not to be confused with Chullin daf Yud Zayin, as it relates to Vayikra perek Yud Zayin, there's one derech. I think there's one machloket how to learn it. What the pasuk is saying is there's an issur shchutei chutz not only for kodshim. There's an issur shchutei chutz for chullin as well. That was something that was the case when they were in the midbar. It'd be true for Rabbi Yishmael for sure. But the Rambam says I hold like Rabbi Akiva and I believe that it would be true in the world. It would be true in the world of Rabbi Akiva as well. So here's the question. The question is Bishloi according to the Ramban that the issur shchutei chutz b'chullin is in Rabbi Yishmael. So I understand a little bit what the issur is. The issur is some uh thing related to the fact they weren't allowed to eat basar ta'avah. Like now you eat basar ta'avah. So now you can eat basar ta'avah. You can't even shecht basar ta'avah. And if you shecht it, you're ready to be chayav kares. But in the Rambam's world, that this is true even according to Rabbi Akiva, what's pashut pshat? I'm allowed to eat basar ta'avah. I can't even eat basar nacherah. But if I shecht, so if I go deer hunting, right? And I am a sharpshooter, and I nailed the deer literally between the eyes. Boom! I could do that. Add some I mean, I'm Jewish, so I can't be rude about Jews hunting, right? But that's something that theoretically I'm allowed to do. But in terms of shchita or shchita, that's something I'm not allowed to do. What would be possible shot? So the Rambam says, I saw that it's safe in his Hamikdash and his pure shulchan ateret says and the Rambam says possible. He says something very beautiful. He says I believe it's the Rambam and the Shita Tosafot. >> [snorts] >> We know that the Rambam has a shita mechudeshes in the world of tamei akrabonus. Rambam says it in his chelek shlishi of the Moreh. And the Rambam brings in the beginning of Vayikra and he was very unhappy with it. Ti'odua, we've spoken about this countless times. But the Rambam says that the whole yesod of korbanos was to be merachek the Yidden from avodah zarah. The Yidden in the midbar were were the Yidden in Mitzrayim were steeped in avodah zarah of the culture of the Egyptians. And as a result, this was something that was very much a part of them. And the Rambam says that Hakadosh Baruch Hu gave the Yidden a parsha of korbanos and the purpose, the objective of the parsha of the korbanos was through that to distance them, to be merachek them a little bit, to be merachek them a little bit from the avodah zarah that they were steeped in. But the Rambam says that was the yesod of the korbanos. The Ramban says if that's the case, so comes [snorts] out the whole inyan of korbanos is just to be merachek us from all these shtusim. So then how does the Torah talk about erech nichi'ah? Right? The Ramban asks all the kashas that he asks. One thing is clear. The parsha of shchutei chutz for sure is related to this inyan. Now, you know that? It's a mefurash pasuk in the Torah. The Torah cannot have been more clear. The Torah says what's the inyan of the issur shchutei chutz? "L'man sheyavi'u bnei Yisrael es acheihem asher b'seichel pnei hasadeh." Right? That's what we're trying to accomplish. "V'lo yishchatu es acheihem l'asot eirim asher ein bahem achareihem." what is last year means I crash in my shade him like this by you making sure there's not going to be an issue you'll be prevented from ever going ahead and bringing carbonas to the shade him. The issue they had is related to what the tailor. It's related to the fact that we don't want you bringing carbonas doing for that's the whole meaning whether you learn like the random of the random or like Simcha is actually but you can mention so many times who's he says I am right or like for where is the standing with the random man but but one thing is clear when it comes to the tailor was before what the issue is the issue is we don't want you to the shade him and like this by us telling you like this you're going to be missing the mile until we went today's stuff I think we were always of the opinion that this is so worried you're not going to this year you know we say if you have coaching don't check the note check in the base of the check in the base of the check in the you're not going to be with the do you know what emerges from today's rate in random for sure the random this of my years before I am last year was so prevalent that you know David just said full [snorts] stop no shooting in the mid bar come on it's not happening but the table in small world maybe I can say no I'm not going to but the table I'm not going to go that but shooting shooting that you have checked it happening this is not something you're going to do you're not going to be able to check and the reason is because I'm afraid that if you're going to check you're going to go ahead and you're going to check this year how do I know that's the talk to the person says the person says clearly that the whole idea is is to prevent the mile once you didn't come in this year that was manifest only in the mid bar across the but when you do in the mid bar and it could be it's because they had just left Mitzrayim. I mean we can come up with a svara maybe why it would have been that way during the 40 years that they were in the midbar. But the point is the whole issur was related to and that is a reason to go ahead and to prohibit a shchita. If that's the reason to go ahead and prohibit a shchita, it has to be for shchitas kodeshim. It's something that theoretically could be for shchitas chulin as well. But the bottom line is for sure in the Rambam's world, the Rambam's shita is who very much tightens up all these halachas based on this havana, this understanding. It's so geshmak why the Rambam would hold that even Rebbi Akiva's world, right, doesn't make any sense. Rebbi Akiva's world, I could do nachir wherever I want, but shchita I can't? Yes. Shchita there's a concern with that's the whole point. That's only a concern when it comes to zevicha. When it comes to, you know, deer hunting, that's not something I'm worried about. And as a result, over there you want to do that b'chutz, do b'chutz. That's not going to lead you to shacht tz'eirim. The chashash of shachting tz'eirim was such an issue al k'ponim during the 40 years in the midbar that it was something that was nogea not only it was something that was nogea not only the shachting of kodeshim, but it was something that was nogea the shachting of chulin as well. You know, just one other point to say this with a slightly different nusach. You know, we mentioned so many times in the course of the daf that the machlokes Rebbi Shimon and Rebbi Akiva is according to Rebbi Shimon there was an issur basar b'ta'ava for 40 years in the midbar. And when they came to Eretz Yisrael they got a hetter. Now you're allowed to eat basar b'ta'ava. Whereas according to Rebbi Akiva, according to Rebbi Akiva, they were allowed to eat basar b'nachir, there was a hetter. And when the Yidden came into Eretz Yisrael, now all of a sudden it was nischadesh a All of a sudden it was nischadesh a issur, right? It was nischadesh an issur. Now all of a sudden you're not allowed to eat the basar b'nachir. Now all of [clears throat] a sudden you have to shacht. I think in the Rambam's understanding, although it's true what we just said, but I think the connect is a little bit different. I think in the Rambam's world, even Rabbi Akiva understood that the Halacha of Basar B'Chalav as Bishul B'Eser. The whole point of it was is we don't want Sh'chita B'Chol that's not something that's going to happen. You know why? Cuz and as a result this is not something that I and really I think Rabbi Akiva started from that point. There's not going to be Sh'chita B'Chol in the Midbar because of a concern it may lead the Sh'chita is now what? Okay, so you can't Sh'chita B'Chol. So what does that mean? Oh, Rabbi Shmuel said that means you're not eating Basar B'Chalav. What do you think it means? That means you want to bring a Korban. You want to eat flesh, bring a Korban. Rabbi Akiva says no, it just means I I I think that's too harsh. I think that means that if you want to do Sh'chita you're going to have to bring a Korban. But you want to eat Basar B'Chalav, you could eat Basar B'Chalav. Rabbi Shmuel and Rabbi Akiva are both coming from a place of Issur. They both learned the same way. The what? What's the next step? Did the Issur Sh'chita B'Chol mean oh, I can't eat Basar B'Chalav? That's the logical Machloket. That's what Rabbi Shmuel said. That's what we should have said is for sure Basar B'Chalav should be forbidden. Rabbi Akiva says no, I'm going to tell you a blatant I'm going to tell you the Issur Sh'chita B'Chol. You know what that resulted in? What that resulted in was that if you want to go ahead and you want to eat Basar B'Chalav, I'm going to let you eat Basar B'Chalav. I'm not going to take away Sh'chita B'Chol and say you can't eat Basar B'Chalav. What I'm going to say is you want to eat Basar B'Chalav, you can eat Basar B'Chalav. Sh'chita B'Chol, no I'm sorry. Sh'chita Sh'chita is only going to happen in the Beis Hamikdash. If it's not in the Beis Hamikdash, it's not going to be okay. But I think one of the big of this rate again it's in the first twice it's in the first Ramban in Parshas Acharei Mos it's in the first Ramban it says not such a but what's coming out over here is there's a Parsha of Sh'chita B'Chol that we always thought for sure but really when you go through the a little bit better there's a whole another Derek and said it only the said it but small and that is there was an Easter in the mid bar I love but when the in the mid bar there was an Easter to go and to I think maybe you can make a a dick and we'll end with this and that is in the parish of the hearts so the positive says very clearly I shall not I guess I shall not but says the positive that's not okay they have the that they shouldn't do this what you should do is bring it to the coin and bring this okay I lay him down in the parish of the issue me sister when I get you got to I shall he's going to bring an or he's going to bring either a carbon or he's going to bring a what's a we know is always a a carbon why is it then in the parish of what is the terror say no don't bring about bring the in the base of but it comes to we're talking about an or a why by is it a woman and by a suit is it an or a back it's this is a parish of my cousin I love so the don't bring it inside and the and the don't be be mild inside don't the the outside and don't be mild the outside >> [laughter] >> I would be the ones and also that really the parish of is a parish of the it's a parsha of so what's the Torah telling you? The Torah is telling you want to eat a stick flesh don't just eat a stick flesh bring it as a carbon. Which carbon? There's only one option. We said it's only the one because the only two carbons that were broken down with the and the and the only one of those two where you're getting a little meat from it is the carbon so it's like the Torah that I'm telling you not to let it do it she have you have to say I'm going to have That's not what you should do. Or you want a piece of meat but the second parsha is really a parsha of you start to be a like anything else for that matter either but the bottom line is the reason there's a dog and that's in the parsha of two and later it's because the parsha of is a parsha of and in the parsha of this way it is as relates to that's already a different parsha it's going to be different.