The Jewish Top Gun Nobody Knows with Major Joshua Zager

I visited Israel when I was 15 and I literally said, "I'm going to find a way to serve in Israel." I always wanted to fly. When I joined the Marine Corps, I told the guys they wake me up 10 minutes early. I got to put on my Tillin. I've been flying the F-18 for 2 or 3 years. We ended up leaving a week after 911, which I think was Russashana that day. I remember who by sword, who by fire, who by water. I did 42 missions into Afghanistan. Dropped a lot of bombs. >> None of your business, Oshi. None of your business, Michael. It's the None of Your Business podcast hosted by Michael and Oshi. Welcome back everybody to another uplifting episode of the None of Your Business podcast. I'm your host Michael Greenfield. With me of course is co-host Ushi Schwarz. And today we have a guest of all guests. Someone who I've been waiting for for a very, very long time. And it's not you in particular. I didn't really know you. I was just asking my friends, I need a pilot. I need someone who's an active pilot. Someone who's in the air that can tell me what the heck is going on in Newark and and JFK. What's happening with the FAA? Tell me about TSA. teach me about taking off and landing. I'm so excited to have you here. And I have to tell you that um just for the sake of everyone knowing, welcome to the program, Joshua Zagger. Is it Josh? >> Josh. Yeah, >> Josh. All right, Josh. So, welcome. I really appreciate you being here. And uh just want to say thank you again to all our subscribers. I'm talking to the crowd now, the listeners. Uh thank you to all the comments. We're getting more love than hate. >> Yeah. >> So, I think we're doing okay. >> The paradigm has shifted. It seems to be that people are catching on and people are becoming fans. So, it's nice. >> Yeah, >> we'll see how long it lasts, you know, but we'll enjoy it while it's going in that direction. >> We're growing. It's good. It's good. We're heading in a good direction, I think. So, uh Josh, we have this little thing called Chat PT says what about you and that's how I begin to get to know who you are. And, uh, first want to a huge shout out to Caim. Um, who was on the podcast here, was a soldier in Gaza. He was actually one of the teammates that were responsible for taking down Sinir. and he was on our podcast with Akiva Shapiro who was a nursing home operator during the day and a soldier in Israel at night at night. >> Literally those two guys were on our podcast and I keep seeing and he tells me you got to have you want a pilot I got you a pilot. Got you the pilot of old pilot. Not only is he a pilot today but he was a pilot then and he's just like that's what your world is and I'm excited to read this. I don't think the crowd is ready for this and uh you'll confirm this is the first time you've ever been on a podcast. >> Yes, first time. I I don't know how anyone hasn't uh you know, I don't know, grabbed you and put you out of I'm honored. I really am. Um you went from flying F18 Hornets over Afghanistan to wearing a pilot's wing for a major commercial airline. Talk about switching gears. That's what it's saying over here. So, I guess you started off in the uh in Marine Corps. >> In the Marine Corps. Okay. And now you're working for >> United Airlines. >> United Airlines. You know, I have a lot of listeners that are listening like, "United Airlines? Oh, can I be a buddy? Can you get me a a 1k? Can we get to global? And we'll get to that in a minute. But what's uh what was your career like in the beginning with Afghanistan? What's that about? >> Um well, I was a newly operational F-18 pilot in 2001. I've been flying the F-18 for two or three years. I was assigned to a carrier and uh we ended up leaving a week after 911 on the on the Roosevelt and went pretty much straight to Afghanistan. We were uh we started the the response to 911 um in early October 2001 and and we spent five months doing that um flying missions into Afghanistan, >> dropping bombs. >> Yeah. Yeah. I did 42 missions into Afghanistan, dropped a lot of bombs um from pretty much from the first mission to the end. Yeah. We were the we were the response. The entire world wanted to to do what I did to be the you all remember 911. So, you know, everyone wanted to go, especially growing up around here and and knowing people that were in the towers. It was >> it was personal to you. was personal. Yeah. Um a guy I played baseball with in high school um I wrote his name on my first bomb and uh his family uh was next to neighbors of my family growing up um in in Little Silver town next to where I live now and uh played baseball with him and and wrote wrote his name on the bomb and took a picture and sent it to his mom. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> I I'm blown away. I'm sorry. I have to think of that thing like he's dropping a bomb on us right now. He's just like starting out so like he go right into it. It's like this is this is heavy artillery right here. >> Oh, she very good. I I missed you. >> Thank you, Mike. I missed you, too. >> I I have to put this strategy paper away. I'm already like I got to I got to slow down and like Oh, she always likes to say, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's take a step back. >> Start from the beginning. How have this been a fighter jet >> across the world?" Like, you know, now you're sitting here in a pilot. Who the hell are you? >> How did it get to this point? >> It's been a It's been a good ride. Um, where'd you grow up? Where your parents from? Let's start literally from the >> My parents are from New Jersey and New York. I think my mom grew up in uh spent a few years in Tene which is pretty near here, right? >> Um my dad is from grew up in Little Silver which is the town next to where we live now. Uh I grew up always wanted to fly. My dad was in the Navy. He was a lawyer in the Navy and when I was really young we lived in Subic Bay in the Philippines and the officers club beach was right next to the runway there and some of my first memories when I was three or four years old was you know marine and navy and uh jets coming into Subic Bay. um coming back from Vietnam like they'd come down for RNR. Um the ship would come in and before the ship pulls in a lot of times the jets will fly off. So there's a lot of activity there at the naval air station and at QB point and I used to watch you know watch I'd sit there on the beach and play the surf and watch watch the uh the planes coming to break to land. Um so I always wanted to do that. >> You got the bug early. >> Yeah. I used to put my my dad had a hi-fi stereo, a Sony hi-fi that he got back then. And I remember putting the headphones on and making my brother sit behind me. And you know, I'd play with the dials and pretend I was flying. My parents are very Zionistic. I uh visited Israel when I was 15 with like a youth exchange with the Federation. And then the following summer um my synagogue had a uh basically a scholarship program that my grandfather had helped set up that anyone who wanted kind of like a birthright for my local synagogue. If you wanted to go to Israel, you could go on the United Synagogue Youth, the USY summer trip. But I was like, I been there, done that. I already been to Israel, but that year um was the second year that they were doing a Poland Israel program, which was a week in Poland and then a five weeks in Israel. And I said, well, if I can do that, then I'll do that. That'll be a good experience. After the week in Poland, the one the second to last day was in Awitz. And I literally said, I'm going to find a way to serve in Israel. Um, I I the the first summer when I was in Israel with that youth exchange, I met a lot of kids who were going to the army and um and I was just coming back here to finish high school and and uh you know, so I I kind of had was exposed to uh what Israel needs to do to to exist. And basically I decided I think looking back maybe this is a little bit of a you know nostalgia, but I'm I pretty sure like walking out I'm like a different person. I got to serve somehow. I got to do something physically to defend the Jewish people. So, I kind of dropped the idea of um of flying that that first summer I was there. I think the tour guide knew a paratrooper that was getting his beret at Ammunition Hill because we happened to be at Ammunition Hill when the paratroopers were coming up to get their berets. And uh so I kind of said, you know what, I I didn't know Hebrew. I learned how to read for my bar mitzvah. So, it was kind of a a pretty uh big leap, but I said I I could probably figure out how to enough Hebrew to be an infantryman. So, I said, I'm gonna be a paratrooper. and uh and then set about trying to do that. My my route to learning Hebrew was spending a year at Hebrew University. So, I said, I'm going to try and stay on track with like a normal progression uh get my first degree uh and go to college, but then I'm going to do my junior year at at Hebrew. But my sophomore year in college, the Marine Corps came to my campus with a helicopter, a little civilian helicopter, but they had a reserve Cobra pilot who was flying students around to recruit. And I uh literally got out of class and saw the Marines there and I didn't know the Marines landed on ships and that's what my dream was to land on ships. So I walked up to him and said, "Do you have any information on the Navy?" Cuz you maybe someday I'd want to land on, you know, join the Navy to fly. And he said, "Well, we do that. We land on ships, too. You want to go flying right now?" So I I threw my books under the door and signed a little release. It was like half a slip of paper and went flying uh with this with this Marine pilot. And when I came back from a 20 minute flight or so, the next guy wasn't there. So, I went again and I grew up sailing. I grew up um surfing and sailing and wind surfing. That was just, you know, what I did growing up on the Jersey Shore so I could fly the helicopter right out of the gate. And the guy came back and told the recruiter, you know, sign me up and and he kept calling me and I kept saying, "Thanks, but you know, I'm going to join the IDF, you know, thanks, but no thanks. Thanks for the flight, but uh I'm going to the IDF." And you know, even when I was in Israel, my every once in a while, my mom would say, "The Marines called again." But that was out in Pennsylvania. And uh I did I did the did the Israeli army, came home and um basically uh I hadn't, you know, been out of I had my first degree, but I I always thought, you know, I'll figure out what I'm going to do next when I'm in the army. But when you're in the in the IDF, especially in the in the combat arms of the IDF, you're just kind of, you know, you're always hot, so you're trying to how figure out how to cool off. You're always cold, so you're trying to figure out how to warm up. You're always hungry, so you're trying to figure out how you going to get a minute to eat. You're always tired, so you're going to, you know, try how am I going to sleep for 10 minutes. You don't really think uh the next stage I got out of the army and uh >> How long were you in the army? In the two years. So you're there for two years. >> Yeah. I was 21 when I got drafted. So um >> Were you an Israeli citizen? >> No, >> you weren't. >> No, I was I >> So you enlisted? He didn't get You got drafted. >> Yeah, I was technically drafted. My dad was a lawyer. So he got me with an immigration attorney. He was worried about me, you know. So technically I was uh I made aliyah and I was drafted. And uh I'm not Israeli at all, but I I went I went to serve as a as a Jew. And uh I was very cognizant I never wanted to live there. I love where I live now. I'm back where I always wanted to be home where I am. Um but I wanted to go defend the state of Israel and and uh and and uh and the Jewish people. And it was an amazing thing uh to do. Especially now in the last couple years. I can't imagine uh had I not done that how I would have you know when it was my time I did my time and it's >> you feel like you contributed you know your part tiny little link in a very big chain. >> I have to say first on behalf of everyone listening and myself thank you for you know being such a person uh that just puts themselves out there like you know it's it's very very unique what you're saying very very unique. I know a lot of people that served in the army because they were passionate about Israel and most of them stayed in Israel or became Zionistic to the point, you know, where that was their goal. This is just a young Jewish man who got inspired and had an upbringing and the value system that I just want to serve my country. I just want to do my this is what I'm brought. I'm blown away. >> I was lucky enough that when I came home, you know, I never thought I could do both. But >> why did you think of flying in Israel, by the way, instead of >> So, yeah. So, I I barely knew Hebrew. I mean, I could I can tell you funny stories about like the Liski the the draft office and >> um >> of things you said. >> Yeah, I'd love to hear it. >> There was like a 20. So, I went I literally landed on a Thursday um and I got a one-way ticket on Lal because I made Aliyah. I landed on a Thursday night on the late flight Thursday at you know 4:00 or whatever when that flight gets there. And by the time I got to the kibuts, it was late and it was a religious kibbutz. So when I woke up at noon on Friday and said, "Hey, I need to get to the draft office." They said, "Easy, Tiger. You know, relax. I could wait till Sunday." So on Sunday, I went up to Tiberious and went to the draft office with my two-day old two dot cahoot and said, "Draft me." And they said, "Uh, easy tiger. Come back in a few weeks." I got a letter in a few weeks. And I think I'm the second visit is when they give you a Hebrew test. And it was 20 vocabulary words. So here I am like a 21-year-old college graduate with an 18 or 19 year old Mashaki assessing my Hebrew level and it was 20 20 words like higher sec second third level you know vocabulary and I was like at the 10th one I didn't know so I said to her just stop you know I can't even get a 50 and she said no army regulations I got to give you all 20 and number 17 was ambulance so I knew one out of 20 and I said look look at me and at the time it was 93 and the the I had heard that the army opanim were just full of Russian immigrants and that the only thing you learn in opan is Russian. You don't learn Hebrew in opan in an army opan. So I said look at me. I came all the way from New Jersey to be a paratrooper not to sit in an army opan and learn Russian. And she passed me. So I went straight to the bakum. And at the time I was the only paratrooper who was doing what I was doing. Um I didn't speak Hebrew for months. I I didn't speak English for months when I was in I was the only guy doing it. >> Wow. >> In the in and then I I became a commander in the paratrooper. So, you know, and I went back to training the next year's August draft. Uh, I was a commander in in basic training in the intermediate advanced training. You you you so you pass the IDF process, right? Meaning you're you're about to jump to your next stage of life. I just have to ask you before you like, you know, move past it, give me one memory of IDF that you can, you know, tell people that are thinking of going to the IDF or somebody that's saying like, you know, uh, you know, I'm afraid for my son or daughter to go to the IDF because that's a topic that happens in our communities a lot. I tell the people who I taught to fly, you don't want to do this, you need to do it. So, it is like any good hard experience, you know, it'll if you're the right person for it, if if you have the right mindset for it, it'll make you into the most incredible person. Um, but if you're not, it'll break you. You know, I used to tell my Marines, you know, uh the right kind of alloy under the the most pressure becomes steel and uh the wrong the wrong materials under pressure just is destroyed. So it's that's what the IDF is. Nothing really has been difficult since the IDF you know it's it's uh especially what I you know infantry if you can lead in the infantry if you can um not just function but lead in the infantry you can do anything in life. >> Wow. So you're coming back from the IDF. >> Yeah. >> You have all this energy inside you all this experience leadership capabilities now. You've learned a lot of course right >> what's next for you? Well, I I uh got back to the state. Oh, so one interesting thing is I was able to get hired to be a Madrich for the same USY program as a leader. Yeah. As a counselor. So >> when I at when I got out of the army, there was a ter there was a lot of ter terrorist attacks almost every week. I put in a request to get out a month early so I could be a mandre. I had two I did one month less than two years. Um and I uh the way he did that was this this mashaki tas I couldn't write. By that time I was a commander so I could speak Hebrew. Um but I couldn't write and now you could just talk in your phone and you know almost perfect spelling but uh she came down I was with my soldiers at jump school. My soldiers were going through jump school. So I wasn't going to that sit. We were down at jump school for a few weeks and she came down so that I could dictate the letter to her that she'd put up the chain of command. I dictated this letter to her on Thursday and then she said, "All right, cool. On uh I'm going home for Chabas. I got to hum, you know, I'm going home straight from here. I got a hamu. She wasn't going back to the base for Friday. But Sunday, I'll go in and type it up. Sunday she was in the terrorist attack. The guy put the blew up um the device and then he rushed in with another device like as if he was going to help and she was one of the people that rushed in to help and uh and she was uh um she was blown up with a second charge. Um but they never found her bag for a while. So I had to rewrite that letter and I got out a week, you know, a month a month early and I went and was in Madria which really closed the circle >> like student became the teacher and uh full circle >> having served in the IDF being a paratrooper done a couple frontline duties in different places. Um it was just amazing. Uh >> I I can't keep I'm sorry I can't jump past the IDF still. Um how many jumps did you do? Do you >> uh I did nine which is considered a lot. I did my five to qualify >> and then I did a six with my my I got taken out to be a commander. >> Um but I went back and jumped with my original unit as like a end of musul fun jump. >> So did you ever have to jump in combat? >> No idea. Not since 56 is done. >> Okay, great. It's not that. >> And then I did three with my soldiers uh training and stuff. >> Yeah, three training. >> Yeah, I I uh drove by at 3:00 in the morning once towards Yamamel. I was going to the Dead Sea for an escape with my family actually. And um on the way we look up and we see hundreds hundreds of paratroopers landing all at once talking about 2:00 in the morning in the middle of a field near the Dead Sea >> East of Bea. >> Yeah. Yeah. And we couldn't believe what we were seeing and we pulled over >> and we watched it happen and they, you know, a lot of soldiers backed us off because it was training. Of course they do it on purpose. The land tests at 2 o'clock in the morning or at night. the the second and the the third, fourth, and fifth jump I think were at night. Maybe just the fourth and fifth you do it at night. It's a little bit different than jump at night. >> And you're jumping with also hundreds of people like at the same time like >> Yeah. >> Is that on purpose that way? >> Yeah. It's to get a nice uh tight You want the unit to be together. You don't want a big spread. >> Wow. >> So, it's jump. Um and we train. That's what a lot of the training is. >> Have you skydived in your life before? >> No. I I'll jump out of an airplane for Israel, but I'm not going to do it for a thrill. No, it's jumping out of a good airplane is a bad idea. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. I'm done with that. I'm good. >> It's not operational. It's not But if you can get yourself to jump out of an airplane, especially the second time, it's probably the closest thing to combat that you can kind of simulate. It's you're very you feel very vulnerable when you're up there. Um and uh to to just do what you need to do and operate and and execute the train what you're trained to do, then you're probably going to be able to operate in combat, too. So, that's why Israel still does it. >> Got it. That makes sense. Even though they don't need to use it, but that's the process, right? >> Okay. Makes a lot of sense. >> It makes Yeah. There are those who have jumped out of airplanes and those who haven't, and it's changes you a little bit, especially when you have to operate. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> I'm ready to move past this part of your life. Let's keep going. Yes. >> Because there's so much so many layers to you. I love it. >> Uh you know, like I could do a whole podcast about the IDF. I can keep going like and I and I want to, but I there's so much more to you that I want to learn. So, >> uh >> back from the IDF, finished doing this uh rotation. You went to work. What did you do that? >> No, no. I got home and like um my little brother was at the Naval Academy and I got home and went to go see him. Uh he was in a leadership role and and it was an amazing day and then I went stopped by the bookstore and outside the bookstore in Annapolis is an F4 which is a Vietnam era fighter on a stick on a on a display an actual F4 and I got out and I was like you know what doesn't hurt to ask. So, I came back home and I got a haircut and went to the enlisted recruiter in my in the kind of the downtown bio, which is called Redbank. And uh I asked the uh the staff sergeant, hey, is this is this even possible? You know, I served in the IDF. Can I still get a commission and be a fighter pilot in the Marines? And he trying to after a minute trying to sign me up for uh to be a reservist or something. I said, "No, I got one question. Can I still do this? I know all about the program. I was being recruited in college. Is it even possible? Is it possible?" So, we called up the uh the officer recruiter who was up here where the turnpike and the parkway come together. Um, and it was like uh I was across the desk from this staff sergeant in Redbank and he said, "Hey sir, I got a guy here who wants to be a pilot. He just got out of the IDF. Wants to know if it's possible." And the guy was like, you know, shut the f up. You know, I hear he's like, "No, sir. I'm not effing with you." And I'm like, "Uh, he's like, "No, sir. He's not fat. What are your SAT scores?" "No, sir, he's not dumb." And he's like, "I got to talk to him." So he he uh he gave me the the phone and uh you know he's like come on up here I need to meet you. So I went up and met the guy and he was a a gung-ho uh infantry officer, a recon marine who had been through Ranger school with the army and gung-ho but he'd missed the first Gulf War. you know, he was in training in 91 and this is like four years later and he had never done anything real and here I am a guy who just landed his lap who'd been, you know, I did two stints in Lebanon in the security zone and I'd been in in uh after um Bar Goldstein and like done like done some real stuff. He was just picking my brain about, you know, tactical operational kind of tactical stuff for a long time. And then he's like, I want to put you in the Marine Corps. And I said, hey, I haven't looked at a book in three years. let me do some studying. So I studied for a week and came back and I took the test and I aced it and this is in mid 90s when the the military was shrinking because of the postcold war pie you know dividend and but New Jersey had two flight slots for two marine pilots and I got one. So in a couple days I had it was approved. I had done like the security questionnaire because I told him like let's make sure I did the security questionnaire my first time my my first time doing an SF86 security questionnaire and I uh you know and then I had I had that burden hand and I was like let me think about it because I had a couple months before I had to show up to Quantico and I you know went visit my grandparents. I hadn't seen them in four years. Um, friends and stuff and and I then I ended up saying, you know what, let me go try this Marine Corps thing out. And that turned into it's almost 20 years. You know, I I I uh it was everything about the Marine Corps just impressed me more every every day. You know, it's just uh great organization. So, I I love it. I got to do a pause again. I'm I'm back at you now because I'm first of all, I'm feeling that energy of being a 21year-old. 21. >> Yeah. At that point, I'm hanging out shooting pool with my friends and uh my friend walks in the door and he's like, "Okay, hey, what's up guys? How you doing?" Yeah. Hey, how you how was your year or two? I was Yeah, I've been in the IDF about to go to the Marines. Like, wow. You're competition for me by the way, you know, at that point. So, I'm like looking at you like and I'm imagining that's your space that you're living in. You're going to visit your grandparents. You're going to tell your family. >> I I'd love to know the energy around your family at that point. Like, what's going on? They're allowing you to do this. They're supporting it. Like, we we're finally getting you back and now you're leaving us again. Yeah. Well, even when I went to join the IDF, like this I wasn't really asking my family. I I I like I said, I didn't want to do this. I needed to do it. I I can't imagine not having served in the IDF after being in Ashitz at that. You know, for me personally, there was no I had no choice. Even though I was kind of I was definitely a unicorn back then. You know, no one was doing it. I I paved my own way to do it. But um I I told my parents you know I remember thinking I had some very close friends who were you know supporting me and stuff but actually that they had been on the trip in in to Poland in 88 with me those close friends. So like but my parents I remember thinking you know what I'll just tell them when I have to tell them and it's it is what it is you know um when I got back from the IDF I think they were they were pretty much like not surpris like I don't they knew me my whole life so it was like it wasn't like a thing for my parents you know >> right so basically if you had to do it they had to accept it which is nice >> my parents my my dad always says you know I'm living his dream you know he he >> he flew in the Navy for a little bit he was an ROC in school and uh it was Vietnam and he had met my mom wanted to get married so life expectancy of naval aviators in Vietnam wasn't good and he's I think I'll be a lawyer instead and you know both both my grand my grandfathers served in World War II one of them was in flight training until until uh he was transferred to the infantry to get ready for the invasion of Japan but he had done some flying for the army airore >> they're actually really proud of you >> yeah of course which is really nice >> yeah nothing but pride I don't think that's amazing >> yeah I'm sure and I can't imagine now that I have kids and And I can't imagine what, you know, they were going through. I was cognizant of it in a theoretical way, you know. >> Yeah. For those that are wondering, her his daughter is in the audience. >> Yeah. Um, in a theoretical, I was very cognizant of, um, what I was putting them through, but just in a theoretical, you know, when you're 21, you don't know what it's like to be a parent. And so I want to go back to that interview where you're meeting this person and he's learning about your history in Lebanon, which I didn't know about because we skipped the whole discussion of the IDF and about your tactical uh you know procedures, >> right? >> What did you tell him that impressed him? Tell me. Tell me. I think I think if you if you're in the military, >> you kind of you can cut to the chase and it's very, you know, if you have that kind of stuff in common, which we had a lot of stuff in common, but um I don't I forget what I probably told him the stuff, you know, we did ambushes. >> That's what I'm talking about. I'd like to hear that lingo. What does it mean an ambush? What mean you're telling him you're trained for an ambush? So, so in the middle in in the in the mid '90s, Israel was still maintaining the security zone um which is a buffer. It's basically the second ridge line north of the border because uh the the PLO and then the Hisbellah were able to shoot into Israel. So, if you have line of sight, especially, you know, you've all been to the Golan, you know, they had line of sight right into the farmers field, the kibbutz fields down below and they, you know, tractors had to be armored and they planted the eucalyptus trees along the road so that they could get around without getting shot at. So in order to keep that from happening, there was a security zone. We pushed them two ridge lines north of the border, which meant if we controlled that second ridge line, we could we could have line of sight into the next valley, which you know, you know, 10 to 15 kilometers north, >> which gives you a technical advantage, >> of course. Yeah. Right. The terrain. So, and then Israel had, you know, probably pretty primitive electronic surveillance. Um but the terrain there were there were known entry points that his below had probed and found out how we can get through um Israel's defenses. So in order to cover that we would lay ambushes. We had we had observation posts. My second time in Lebanon was in Lebanon at an observation post on at the where the Lutani River bends flows south and then bends to the west to go out to the Med. And right at that we called it the uh the uh the elbow of the Latani River. We had a OP an observation post right there that we maintained. there 14 of us and it's almost like being on a ship in the middle of the ocean because uh all the terrain up there was considered his controlled and so every time we had to um re you know resupply a convoy come up it had to be opened up and cleared during daylight hours and you know so we're up there 14 of us we had artillery support and air support but we were 14 people in his blood territory when the sun set we were on high alert you know everyone was on the position in the position was awake uh an hour before sunrise eyes, our first light. Um, and we're all ready for um it was very operational. We couldn't take our shoes off. One person could have their shoe off at any one time. So, one of the 14 of us, it had to be during daylight hours. So, if you were changing your your socks, hey, I'm changing my socks. And we had about enough water to take a shower once a week or once every 10 days or whatever. And um it was just very operational. And then, you know, I'd be up there and then when it came time, we were up there for four months. when it was my time to come down. I might lay an ambush cuz you know if you're going out for a couple days, you kind of work hard the last couple days because everyone's know knows you're going home to sleep for a couple days. So pretty much you you did an ambush or you know at least a couple patrols back to back to kind of pay for your your time off. So, I would do an ambush in Lebanon, come back before sunrise to the position, and then the convoy would take me back to the border with Israel, and I could be back in in Tel Aviv, you know, for lunch. >> Wow. >> Um, be on the beach in Tel Aviv for the afternoon. >> That's a nice way to spend the end of the >> Yeah, it was like, so that kind of thing just blow it blew his mind, you know. I I had called for fire once. We saw a truck of his below truck that I was able to call the helicopter in. And here I'm just a young I was only a sergeant. I was >> And what happens? So you call a helicopter in and >> Yeah. So we saw the the the Kusha truck and we called the helicopter was a Cobra and we called it in and um he was able to eventually see it and blew it up um >> in front of you >> across the river. >> You're seeing it happen meaning you're so you're responsible for the defense and you're seeing it happen right in front of you. >> Yeah. Right. when the position we were in. I mean the we pulati had it before us and they were attacked. His bullah came up. They they uh over the course of many weeks and months maybe they um this old shepherd brought their gear into the olive olive um or grove that was right underneath the position. And um you know over weeks this guy was just grazing his sheep supposedly. But on his donkey, he had a piece of a Sagger missile, you know, a control box and then the missile itself and then a 50 cal barrel and a 50 cal um body for a machine gun. And they brought this all this gear in there and then this his came up and put it together one night and attacked the position and and killed the Givati. And when we came up like they was a couple weeks before we took it from him. Um, so like we uh it was very very uh operational and you know for a guy that a marine officer who just been through training and he was he was a very successful marine officer and he was a captain who was uh recruiting for New Jersey. He was a recruiting officer for for uh for marine officers for New Jersey and he uh but he never done anything real like that. So, I just told him, you know, >> the average IDF soldier is seeing more action >> than some of the high-end people in the US military >> because uh you know, like you said, Israel is defending itself at all times and they're battling so many fronts as well. They're surrounded by enemies. So, the casual soldier is seeing more action than just you know, most of the people in the military in 10 20 years, >> right? >> So, they're more impressed by you just this, you know, guy just made his way from the IDF and he's showing up here front door. And he's he literally and he's like he's got to pick your brain. He's got to see what what is it like >> and to that. >> I think it was on your podcast the guy who killed Sinir was a a young commander trainee. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Exactly. Just uh you know someone who was in s you know ended up learning all the tactics and brought that back with him and you would have told me that. >> Yeah. And like you said also just using that leadership skills, you know, you're in a team of 14 people. You're the tender age of 19 or 20. You have to announce when you're taking your sock off. You imagine any yeshiva buffer listening to this and thinking like, "Oh my god, like you know, yeah, you this is quaint compared to what's going on in Gaza, you know, right now." >> Absolutely. Absolutely. This was this is routine. Um, but yeah, it's it's he can't the experience this generation of Israelis, every generation is amazing, but the the the uh the stuff that they have to go through uh the stuff that they do, what they're doing right now. >> Um Yeah. >> So, you start in the Marines, right? That was uh and you did you said 20 plus years being 20 years. Yeah. >> 20 years in the Marines. Um >> which I was the last guy to ever thought I wanted to go fly jets off ships and then move on with my life, >> right? Um, but the Marine, like I said, the Marines just >> So, what year are you enlisted? What What year was this? >> I I was uh I became an officer in '95. >> 95. >> 96. January 96. >> 96. So, I'm just thinking from 911 perspective, what we said earlier, right? How many years you're having to prepare and become who you are. You're not knowing this is coming, but you know, think back now. >> No, it's crazy. I came, you know, I back in the day, it was like, remember the quaint old days before terrorism came to our shores? You know, I I figured I was done fighting terrorists. That's something Israel used to do. Now I'm back. I I thought I'd just be I I never thought I'd have to go to war for the United States. Um it's just I thought I'd be uh you know just peace, you know. So I I joined in 96 and it takes a while to become a pilot. I in the Marines you have to do about a year of training to become a marine officer which um was it's amazing training. You know every Marine officer does everything. >> You're talking about the guy with the big hat that's yelling at you like that type of thing. No, I never had to do that. But um like at first it's I became a marine officer. It takes about 10 weeks. >> Okay. >> And then you go through we have the basis school which is you know you learn how to call for fire you know artillery. You learn engineering you learn offense defense in the infantry wise offense defense. Um you you take classes on the un uniform code of military justice even though you're not going to become a lawyer but we had lawyers in our class. you know, you take Marine Corps um officers basically go through Marine Corps 101 of all all aspects of it, which makes it makes a little bit different. You know, um one you spend that takes about six, seven months. You sp you're with, you know, when I when I'm called in to drop bombs for somebody, there's a good chance I know the guy or he knows someone that that I know. So, you feel that it's just like um they feel that like we're one big team. So I did that and then you go to Navy flight school and you know after you done with that. So that took took me about two and a half years of flying to get to the F-18. >> Oh. >> And then about a year of learning the F-18 before I got to an operational squadron. And then I was in that operational squadron about a year before 911. >> I see. So uh and just for the casual listener which is myself uh Navy, Marines, Army. The difference between them real quick is >> the Marines are easy way to look at it. >> Yeah. We have the Department of the Navy, the Department of the Air Force, the Department of the Army, and now we have Space Force. Uh we have the Coast Guard, too. In the Department of the Navy is the Marine Corps, which most Americans don't realize. The Marine Corps is so prominent. We're we're tiny relative to other services, but we're we're in the Department of the Navy. Um so, yeah. >> And the Navy is responsible for >> the Navy is uh for for uh sea dominance. >> Got it. >> Um and but Strictly speaking, the Navy kind of stays on ships and the Marine is um goes ashore in what we call the latoral zone, like the first x amount of miles from from the beach inland. That's what the Marine Corps controls. >> So from your perspective, you're getting the best of both worlds. >> Yeah. >> Right. But where's the Air Force involved? Isn't the Air Force separate from the Navy? >> Yes. And >> you're not in the Air Force? >> No, I was in the I was a pilot in the Marines, which means I'm a naval aviator. >> Taking me back to when you were a teenager. That's when you saw the helicopter and you're like, "Oh, I could do both." And that's what ended up happening for you, which is kind of cool. >> Yeah, totally. Yeah. I I didn't I didn't know the Marines had jets, right? You know, >> um, >> did you ever like fly a plane prior to going to flight school? Never. >> No. This captain that recruited me said, "Hey, one of the questions on the test is, have you ever flown an airplane?" >> And I hadn't yet. So, I called a friend who um his brother was a pilot, like a Cessna guy, and he took me flying, let me fly it, you know, for 20 minutes, whatever. I flew it. Um, I had flown a helicopter. Yeah, I'd flown a helicopter, but the question was, "Have you flown an airplane?" I was, you know, let me just >> So, yeah. So, I can answer yes to that question. Yeah. >> One second. Did I Did I fly a helicopter? Hold on. Uh, no. Yeah. Not yet. I don't know if I helicopter flying one. >> I I I agreed. >> Yeah. That's like very very rare. How old were you the first time you actually flew a fighter jet by yourself? By the way, are they single seaters? Right. It's not too one person. >> I was probably 20. So, the first time I flew a plane by myself, it happens like I think the 14th flight in the in the first plane you fly in the Navy. By the time I flew F-18s, I'd already flown three airplanes. >> Uh, at the time there were three airplanes in the jet pipeline and then I flew F-18s. So, it's the fourth airplane I flew. But you fly solo right away. Um, I think it was the 14th flight on the at the time it was a T-34 which is a turborop um, tandem seat twin two seat uh, trainer and then I flew a T2 which is my first jet and then a A4 Skyhawk. So uh, which is a Vietnam era jet um, which was a trainer back then and that that you know ve especially after like the second plane you fly in the third plane, it's very early on that you fly by yourself. You're you're being trained to be in in that pipeline in the jet pipeline. You're being trained to be a single seat aviator >> and some of the Navy guys and some of the Marines have go to two seats, >> but uh you're trained to be a single seat guy. >> So, do you vividly remember that first time that you took off and you're in the air and it's like you're flying by yourself now? >> I wouldn't say vividly, but I you know >> I remember thinking, I can't believe they let me go do this. Yeah. But the training is so good. Like um Yeah. You definitely feel like you were taking your dad's car out when you were 15 or something. Yeah. >> And you're like nervous, excited, like what are you what are you feeling? It's like >> it's all that. >> Scared? >> Not scared. No, just scared of messing up. Yeah. You know, you don't want to mess up. The way the training works is you're not really scared of You can't be scared. You can't operate if you're scared. So, you're just maybe if you're scared of anything, it's just not performing up to your >> Yeah. And all this is exercises, right, at this point. Like, you're not actually doing any type of missions just yet, right? >> Like you're going up there, you're doing whatever it is that you need to do, and then you're then you're coming back and and that's it. >> Yeah. It's it's the way the way military train flight training works is um the you never really get comfortable. It's like going to the gym. Soon as you can do two plates, they're putting another 10 on each side. So you never really you never really get comfortable and that's the way it's got to be. So when I had to go to combat and it was like Yeah. It was almost easy. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> Sounds like a good recipe for life. Like just the kind. And you said that earlier and I I love you know >> seeing the comparison of life when it comes to these kind of things like keep pushing yourself right. So, what do you take out of that? >> Well, you asked me before we went on. I'm like uh about being religious. I I think it's very it's parallel. Like I I I feel like flying is the physical world. And I I was um a master of manipulating machines in the physical world. That's what I was trained to do for years. And then, you know, what now you learn about growing as a as a person in a spiritual way. It's the same thing. It's like the same thing. just always how can you get better if as an aviator if you consider yourself good you're you're dangerous what people don't realize and I was talking to my rabbi uh yesterday you know we're talking about uh big how it's you know boed comes from the word bog like your clothes can you know not be who you are and and I was thinking like we you know when we go flying in the Marine Corps you know you walk around the ship everyone knows you're an aviator you're a fighter pilot from the patch you're wearing um but and And we and we are very confident if you're comfortable with who you are and you're not trying to get better, you're dangerous. And the same thing with I think as being a Jew, you know, if you're if you're comfortable where you're at, you know, it's you got to keep moving forward. And um just keep improving and keep um challenging yourself and and you know, I heard one of you say you're working on yourself. I think it was you one of your >> I think lately it's also him. So we're trying. >> Yeah. Yeah. We're working. >> If you're not growing, you're going backwards. >> Exactly. pick up on what you just said. By the way, >> you're you're dangerous. Like, first of all, I have a question. >> What's your call sign? >> Zed. >> Okay. And like, you know, you like were like uh spewing Top Gun right there, like telling when Iceman told Maverick, >> you know, you're dangerous. >> The themes in that movie are real. It's it's really cheesy and it's it's um >> it's really cheesy and really uh Hollywood, but I saw that when I was young. That's when I I learned a lot about, you know, what being what naval a aviation is about. And the themes in it, like I said, are very real. I I had a friend who flew two seats and his he had a mishap and his backseater didn't survive and he's still plagued by it today. >> Wow. >> Yeah. Like he didn't, you know, you were near the pilot and your backseater goes out flying with you, you need to bring him home. And how do you face his wife and his son if you didn't bring him back? And that's a big theme in that first movie. And you know, that's real. Um, and I'm not like I'm not being dramatic when I say you're dangerous. If you know if you're not um if there's a special kind of humility that we that all naval aviators have, you know, especially when you try and land on a ship at night, we may seem, you know, cocky and overconfident, but there's no such thing as overconfidence in a cockpit. >> You're constantly thinking, what can I do better? What can I, you know, um, this little mistake that I made, how can I not make yesterday, how can I not make that today? you know, and when when you're by yourself, you know, hopefully the the mistakes you make, you know, uh um you catch you catch. >> When did you open that world of spirituality? It seems like it's something. >> I think I always had it. I just didn't I didn't grow up with religion, so I didn't I grew up conservative, which wasn't really spiritual. I I think I always had it deep down. I just didn't have a framework for it. >> Can you share with us what happened? Like did it >> So, yeah. I mean, it's been a obviously long. I I um I wanted to go to a religious kibbutz for a few reasons. One, I want I wanted to go to kibbutz because being a combat uh being in the paratroopers and in combat arms, I didn't want to have to worry about doing my laundry and going shopping on Friday afternoon after not sleeping for a couple days. You know, I'd heard all this. So, I wanted to go to kibbutz, but I was going there to serve as a Jew. I didn't want to go to a kibbutz that was kilan. >> Got it. Okay. >> So, I there's a few few kib. as a conservative Jew, you're in Israel and you're like, "Let me go to a religious kibbut." Also, I wanted to know just made sense. >> Yeah, it made sense and I wanted to know >> more about it. >> Sure. >> I had never kept actually I knew that's why we kind of kept Shabbat, but we really didn't. So, I went to a religious kibbutz and so there, you know, I learned I was exposed to it. Um, obviously I kept kosher in the IDF because I was either in the kibbutz or in the army and the army keeps kosher too. And I didn't really keep Shabbat in the IDF because if you're on the base, if you're in Lebanon on Saturday, it's just like Friday, it's got to be. Um, but on the kibutz, you know, and I was exposed to holidays I'd never heard of before. >> Did you experience Purim? >> Yeah. Yeah. Purim we used to do as kids. >> So, what what was another new one for you then? >> Um, well, I guess tishab I really I I was exposed to that on the summer trip. I never heard about that. Yeah. >> Because it was in the summer like we took the summer off from being Jewish. So like um yeah. So I I think I but so I was in the religious kibbutz and there was an American kid there who wasn't there for the army. He was there to learn Hebrew but he was religious or at least buba and he begged me to put on to fillin and I was like I had these to fillain from when I was bar mitzvah but my synagogue didn't even teach us how to put it on. I just had them. My grandparents got me >> them. It was like symbolic more. >> Well I think my grandfather was like well when you get bar mitzvah you need to fill in. So he he got me some to fill in but my synagogue didn't even do it. >> And then when I went on that summer program was the first time that that USY I didn't know how to do it. I had to ask someone but I did it for the summer cuz everyone else was doing it and that was it. And it was so and this guy like begged me to put it on. I was like no dude I'm not >> Was he Lavich by any chance? >> See later on I realized he probably was influenced but he was an American kid. >> Yeah. But my rabbis now take credit for for it because they're like, "Of course he had to." >> Yeah. >> But I didn't know that. I didn't know what Labovich was at the time. He begged me to put on to fillin. And then we went on a on a a trip up to the northern border like a few weeks before I was going to go get drafted. And he said, "You know, we're seeing soldiers go up the good fence up there near north near near Matula, north of Kashimona, which ended up where I was as a soldier twice. But we see these guys going up there and he's like that was like the third time he begged me, "Please just put on to fillin and say the schma and take it off. It'll take you two minutes. Please just do that for me. I'll sleep better at night." His name was Daniel. That's all I remember. So I was like, "All right, dude. I'll do it for you." So I started doing that. And then and then I just do that. Like I did it like for years and years. And that I think when I look back on it, I think that really doing that like eventually it just seeped in like >> Yeah. It made you more connected. >> Yeah. it like and then and after a while I'm like I I'm still around like I'm not going to stop if if it ain't broke I'm not going to try and fix it. I'm going to keep doing it. I just kept doing it and it became like when I joined the Marine Corps I told the guys they wake me up 10 minutes early I got to put on my tofillin >> because you know during that first 10 weeks >> that's so interesting. So you kept doing it throughout the Marine Corps while not being observant of anything else >> a little bit. So I I I kind of wanted to move in the right direction. Yeah. So I came back and and my wife is uh grew up conservative like me >> and um like you know we started kind of not mixing milk and meat when we got married. I when I went to college I said I'm not eating anymore trafe. I'm like this you know I I kind of wanted to move in the right direction. >> So it was more than just filling then. It was uh Yeah. But slowly but surely it was >> Yeah. But it really like and I I don't I'm a I'm a a sample group of one so I don't maybe just as I got older. >> Yeah. I I don't know. Um but definitely I feel like I've always been spiritual. I just didn't have a hook to hang it on. I didn't know what it was being spiritual was. I was I I was spiritual. I'd go skiing and I'd be like, "Man, look, you know, this is incredible." Or I go sailing and on a beautiful day like I was definitely spiritual, but just not in a as much in a Jewish way. >> You just you weren't observant, but you were spiritual, which is >> more time closer to God than we do cuz you're in the ear most of the time. So you're already halfway there. >> Very true. you probably have a better relationship with him than we do. >> Very good point. Very good point. But then there was one point throughout your past, I guess, years where you're like, "Okay, I'm going all in." That's like I guess obviously like there's Yeah. celebrations. But um it's a cool journey. It's it's it's been great. It's been amazing. And uh >> yeah, I told you before we went online, I've been keeping uh we've been keeping Shabas for two years now. And it's life-changing. It really is. >> Were there any uh really from very religious ultraorththodox people that you remember serving with you >> in the IDF? in the not in the IDF in the uh Marines. >> No, I was the only Jew. You were the only Jew? >> Yeah. When I was an instructor Jews, but not religious Jews? >> No, I was the only Jew that I knew of. >> Uh there was one that came through when I was an instructor. I'd been in about let's say 10 years. Yeah. About 10 years. >> Um a Marine that came through. Um there was a Navy guy that came through that was one of my students who's his uh his mom was Jewish. >> Um but yeah, there weren't many Jews. >> Makes sense. Jewish people are not known for their, you know, we're known for our fear of heights. Like it's not something that we we love. Like I was in the hospital the other day and uh I've seen like the doctors coming at Jewish, the nurse Jewish, the pediatrician Jewish. And I tell I'm like honey, I feel like everybody in this hospital is Jewish over here. And she said, "Are you surprised like that there are Jewish doctors out there?" Like Jewish pilots, you know, that's not something that's our we're not athletes. Like we don't like jumping. We don't like flying. Like that's that's not a Jewish >> Israeli Air Force is pretty good. But >> I'm curious how many pilots are out there even today not working for LL that are >> there's there are Jewish pilots around. Yeah. >> Yeah. I've flown I had one flight where all three of us were um >> Oh, that's cool. >> Jewish. Yeah. Um Well, yeah. Yeah. The third guy considered himself Jew, but there's there in in commercial aviation there's more a lot more than the war. >> Um but yeah, >> you said something earlier. I got to pick up on that and then I'll I'll uh I'll pass it back to Yoshi. >> I cannot wait to start talking about the >> I know. I know. I know. I am waiting. I'm so I have to go back to Shabas. I'm sorry. >> Aviation IDF. This is Michael's jam, by the way. The IDF. So, he could be on this. >> Shabas is my jam, too. So, I have to ask you, you mention I I promise I'm going to back go 911 all in, baby. But we actually had a survivor of 9/11 here. Say survivor, a first responder of 911. Interesting that one. >> Yeah. And it was fascinating to hear that version of his story. And uh you know, we we lived it. So, we appreciate it a lot and it's in our blood and we want to hear and it's like yes, I agree with us. I'm like >> I'm waiting to get there. But you did say Shabas helped change your life and I got to jump on it real quick. Explain that for just one minute. How how is Shabas what has it done for you? >> I know it's been like almost two years now or maybe. Yeah. I I can't imagine not having it like you know it just you know that everyone says you shut off and it um but the ch I think so we had we bought a place I was just driving to shool and back for a lot of years that's pretty much all I did on chabas but when we bought the place where we could walk to shul and shut down entirely um I remember having like a six-hour conversation with with my wife like like we were on our second date >> like I don't remember even though we would go skiing together and we'd be on lift, you know, for 10 minutes. Um, or having dinner together for 2 hours. But I remember like it was probably this time of year two years ago when it's really, you know, sunsets early. So, dinner was over, you know, it's 7 or whatever and we talked till 2:00 in the morning like, and I was like, what just happened? You know, it's just there's things like that that, you know, of course, you're shutting down and I I can't wait to turn my phone on, especially in the last couple years, see what happened in the world. um you know or see what I'm doing for work the next day. I can't imagine not having that especially the world's just accelerating into this complete connectivity. I was I was asking Lily um you know do you know do you know the idea of being good at directions you know um on the way here she's she's never heard about it like I was always good at directions I have a spatial mind I you know I can look at a map and know where I'm going and and now like her generation just plugs it in her phone like it's just constant constantly connected uh in ways that just didn't exist when I was Lily's age and like and it's just like a lifeline you know, I can appreciate it. I don't think, you know, if you grow up like Lily does, I don't think she can can appreciate it as much, but I because I live before, you know, the internet was in your hand and um, you know, just when we'd go on a car trip and be bored for hours, you know, and there's some val value in that just not being distracted by anything else and be able to focus on your wife. >> Yeah. I just told someone I just told my neighbor um over Shabas I have something called the road trip theory and that is like a lot of times forim like you know people like you know they uh recommend boys to girls or girls to boys and based on a picture or based on a 1-hour meeting nah she's not for me or he's not for me and I say you know it's interesting if people spend a little more time with one another they might actually get to know each other and they might actually and it was a whole debate can you build an attraction to someone and I was saying yes and someone else was saying no and we were arguing about it, >> right? >> And I was saying my road trip theory which is I guess based on the shabas theory. You're talking to your relationship. You're talking to your partner >> for what you did when you were dating and it's just awesome. I love hearing that. >> It's amazing it there's so many ways I mean in the community we have an incredible community just to be able to >> you know sit at the kdish and there's nowhere to go you know just be with people. There's no everyone's on a clock. >> Love kdish. >> Yeah everyone's on a clock you know who's doing the next thing. what's next? You know, I got to get home for to make dinner or whatever it is. You know, just sitting there like nothing to do. Just be with your peeps. And it's it's just >> be in the moment. Be present. Right. >> If it wasn't for Shabas, let's face it, we wouldn't turn it off. >> We'd be in the office on Saturday. We'd be right back at it. And we would ignore all those meaningful things that actually matter. And this kind of forces that. And I think that's what you're saying. Shabas really just forces you to reconnect >> um and to just be really about what's around you and what really matters and what really matters. It's a beautiful thing. It really is. And anybody can practice this. It's not exclusive to just Judaism. It's just a great concept. But I think Judaism put a nice package around it%. >> We made it into like a you know it the kdish part. >> I was about to say you like the kdish >> the meals. No the shabas meals. No, it is. It is. >> You add all these elements to it and we found a way to make it fun, right? We found a way to make it in a very entertaining. So, it's >> your kids just come by us. >> I like my community that you are that there's a kabad there. That's Oh, there is. That's beautiful. Okay. >> Later on, I've learned about Labavich later on. I was in the Marine Corps actually. Yeah. >> All right. Back to landing planes on ships. >> September 11th with that rubber band. >> September 11th happens. >> Whoa. Whoa. You're jumping to September 11th. is 20 years. 20 years. You jumping over 20. >> No. Why? 20 years. Five years. Five years. Five years. Okay. You're right. He was going through five years. Okay. You going through the training, the process. Okay. >> Four or five different fights till you got to the big one. >> No combat, no missions, no real a lot of just training. Training training. >> Like I was saying, the training get gets you ready. >> Yeah. I was very >> Because you're always pushing yourself further and further. >> Yeah. And the one big thing is landing on a ship. The the TA4 Skyhawk, which is an A4 Skyhawk with um two seats. Um, the only computer chip in it was in my Casio watch. The plane was made in 1954. You literally started it. Um, you'd have to start it with an external uh, huffer start, an external jet engine that pulled up next side and they plugged it in and that would get the motor going. And once the motor was spooled up, you could give it gas and light it off. The way you lit it off was banging on the throttle like your gas grill. Your gas grill you would hold, you hold it and it goes click click click click click. Well, you have to go click click click. You know, every time you banged on the throttle, it would ignite it. >> And this is the training. This is that's the that's a jet that was fun in Vietnam 50s. It was designed in the 50s but in the 60s >> how are you training with throwing bombs down? I'm curious how >> that was like we call it um iron sights that was no computers involved. I literally drop bombs the oldfashioned way. >> Yeah. With your eye with your eyesight. >> With Yeah. You're controlling you're you're controlling for the different factors which is the the angle, the speed. you know this um if you're have a shallow angle the bomb can um land in a long there's a big problem uh more of a uh a problem to solve longitudinally right if you go directly down it's you know it's going to where you're pointed because gravity's not playing on it. Um the less you're vertical the more horizontal then your speed. If you're going faster the bomb's going to travel further. If you're going too slow, it's going to So to hit a target when you're having and of course laterally at the lineup on the target, too. To hit a target took some training and there were no simulators and I did it in the plane for the first time I dropped a bomb was it was a 25 pound practice bomb with uh a little charge on it so you could see where it landed in the desert. But you know it was all just done you know >> manually. >> Manually so and then same thing with dog fighting the same thing with landing on the ship. So, you know, it's it's great training. And then, of course, when I was given a Hornet, which had the computers in it, and it was fly by wire, and then I could I mean, I think my one of my first, you know, the average for my first bombing mission of Hornet was like 11 feet. Whereas in the in the in the in the Skyhawk, if you could have an average of 75 ft, you throw out your worst bomb and your best bomb and the average of the other remaining bombs is if you can have an average uh of 75 ft, less than 75 ft, you were uh >> and how did you score target-wise? Like, you know, is there >> you see there's rings on the desert. >> Yeah. So, how like at a certain point you're like, "Okay, I got this." Like I'm I'm landing and it's going on the target like over and over. Do you get a score one to 10? >> You come back from the mission and you have your score. Yeah. Um, and then there's, you know, the comms, the the communications and and how the flow and and if you did the pattern doing >> and how were you doing? How was your how were you scoring throughout? Yeah. Well, I I really wanted to get a bombing E, which was an average of better than 75. >> Okay. >> Um, and because I was a Marine, >> E is a good thing. >> An E excellence. A bombing excellence. >> Oh, I see. >> If you had a flight and I I didn't get it. I didn't make it. Uh my first flight in a Hornet, I got it, you know, because but because I trained in this primitive jet, it's like, you know, just made it easy. >> Yeah. Not to compare, really, not the compare, but I have to mention is that I I wanted to learn how to be a DJ. And uh, you know, I went out to Best Buy and I bought an electric board. It was the newest one. I felt like, wow, this is so cool. I'm going to go to YouTube and I went to get a lesson by this guy, DJ Gold. Shout out to you, bro. You're awesome. And he looks at me, he goes, do you really want to learn? And I said, "Yeah, I really want to learn." He he took out two CDs and he like, you know, he put it in there and like I think he had an eight track and he took an old old machine and he said, "Use it with your ear. Learn how to just, you know, jump from one song to the next. When you master the eight track, you go to the CD. You master the CD, you go to the USB, then you can go to automatic. And I'm just remembering and I'm thinking how amazing it is. Also another lesson in life when you're learning something. You know, you're going to go straight for the kill >> and you're not going to have the tools to know what happens if something goes wrong or 100%. Yeah. >> And so yeah, you have if you have the discipline to get a a bomb that's close to 75 ft to the target with a primitive A4, then when you get in a Hornet, it's easy, >> right? So you got on the Hornet and suddenly you're E++. You're doing great. >> It's >> Yeah. >> And Yeah. So, and then landing on the ship in the in the primitive jet, it's steam gauges. It's it's um >> you really have a seat of the pants. You're really dialed in. And then when you have a a jet like with a Hornet where you have a velocity vector which solves for where the jet's going to um where the jet's going to be downrange um it's an incredible amount of information but um and it makes it easier like like I like the analogy with um being good at directions and now everyone's good at directions. They don't even know the kids don't know the concept of it because everyone has an iPhone. >> So if if you're good at directions and you have an iPhone, >> it's a nice combination. >> Love it. So you're landing properly. You're doing the bomb things. I'm sorry. I have to go back. You said a dog fight. >> Dog fight. Yeah. Air combat. >> How do you train for a dog fight? Is it literally playing chicken? >> Yeah. Yeah. Navy in the Marine Corps. We do it before we get our wings. We do it uh when I was done training, I I finished instructing like 11 years ago. It was a 14 flight syllabus where you do um you start off being defensive one against one bandit and then you you go to being uh offensive against the bandit. Uh no, you start off offensive then then you go to being defensive where the bandit starts behind you. And then you do neutral one versus one. And then you do uh two versus one. So let's let's say I'm the Bennett. The two of you would be working as a team to kill me. Um one v one. It's just, you know, so that's that's a syllabus. It's 14 flights. Um and it's just basic. But if you can do that in the basic trainer jet, then when you're given the fighter jet, which has a lot better performance, um you have the concepts down and uh you have a big advantage. But yeah, that's that's the um very cool stuff. And you're ready for all these three things. And then comes 9/11 and you're watching an Ushi take over. Here we go. >> Here we go. So 9/11 happened. Where are you? What where are you when 911 at that morning? >> So I was in South Carolina. So I'd been an operational F-18 pilot for about a year um with Marine Fighter T squadron 251. We were single seat boat squadron. So we were assigned to a ship and we were scheduled to go out the very end of September that year. We were the ready carrier. We'd been through our airwing workups. We were in uh CAG one, air groupoup one, carrier air groupoup one. Um and we were like kind of the ready carrier. So the carrier that's at sea can't come home until the next carrier high-fives it. It's a con like cops on a beat. There's carriers out there on patrol. So we were the ready carrier. And I knew I was going deploying. Lily wasn't born. My son was 14 months old. Um, and uh, I remember we had a bear patch in the backyard and my wife's like, "Got to lay the sod before you go." So I was, we had a half a palace sad that someone dropped off and I was laying the sod and my neighbor came out and, uh, we called him Michigan Mike. Uh, and he said, "Um, a plane just hit the c the trade center. You need to go in." And I'm, it was beautiful in South Carolina, but I didn't know what the weather was here. I assumed it was cloudy and a Cessna hit the uh, trade center. And I I laidside for a few more minutes and he came back out and said, "Josh, you need to go in and watch TV." So, I went in and the reason why I was laying inside that morning is because we were landing on the ship at night. They were training until to land on the ship at night and it was a 10-hour crew day. You can't be at work any longer than 10 hours when you're landing on at night. So, we weren't supposed to come to work till 2:00 that day. So, that morning, I was working in the yard and went in to watch the TV as a second plane hit. I saw the big impact. I'm watching the fire and when the second plane hit I flew I I threw on a flight suit and went to the squadron because at the mo at that moment the report the news was saying we don't know how many of these planes are out there and then I don't think I don't think the Pentagon had been had been hit yet. I don't think 93 had crashed yet. So we went thinking we're going to have to shoot down some airliners and no one in my squadron there 18 of us in my squadron. No one had a cell phone. This was a 2001. We were you know Marine Corps officers. We weren't paid that much. We didn't have cell phones. So we just went to the squadron. All of us like even though we weren't supposed to go till 2 that the night operations were over, you know, we all kind of independently we didn't call anybody. We just went to the squadron. Um and then after about an hour we were told, you know, the reporting reports were all the planes were on the ground. Um and then you basically we all kind of stood down. There's nothing we could do. But they pulled up the uh the deployment a few weeks and we left September. The ship pulled out on the 18th, literally a week after, which I think was Roshashana that day. Um, a week after 911 and I remember we flew out on the 19th because the ship pulls out of port out of Norfol and then we fly out the next day and land on the ship and then we didn't know where we're going. Um, but uh I think Bush had given the axis of evil speech at that point. So we had an idea but we didn't know and uh I remember that Roshashana you know who by sword who by fire who by water was like I knew I was the next day I was going out to do something I didn't know what and our routine deployment the women the squadron wives were planning to meet us halfway through the cruise in Italy you know it was a med cruise so like we had this rough plans that halfway through the women would come to Italy and the ship would pull in and we'd break the supposed to be a six-mon deployment and break it up in half. But on 11 that all changed and we um we uh we went we flew off on the 19th and like I said we didn't know where we were going. We we went across the Atlantic went through Gibralar. We hung out off Syria for a few days doing planning some raids into Syria because Syria was in the axis of evil and we kind of wanted to let them know we're keeping an eye on them. Um but then uh you know we snuck through the Suez Canal the the carrier battle group snuck through the Suez Cano. The carrier is not just the carrier it's the destroyers and the submarine or two and uh you know other ships cruiser I think. So we all kind of snuck through uh I think we hit the canal at 11:00 at night or something and and by sunrise we were in the wide open Red Sea. Um and then we started flying missions that next night before we rounded Yemen. And what kind of fighter jet is this? >> F18. >> Is this the most advanced >> at the time? Yeah, at the time it was the F-18 Charlie. The C model was uh the most advanced on the ship. >> And how many F-18s are in that part of the world? >> Um well on my carrier there were three carriers to start off with. Um the two that were out of patrol and then we came out and the one we were leaving stayed out for an extra month. So we had three at the time. >> At what point did you know where you were going and what you were doing? Like >> I think uh when we when we hit the canal, the Suez Canal, we knew we were going to Afghanistan, >> but somebody on the ship. >> We were already planning that. >> Someone on the ship knew though >> or no one. >> Yeah, probably a couple days before. Like I said, we were planning strikes into Syria. >> Um who knows if that's a faint or if that was actually an option, but uh I don't know when the actual decision was made to >> to attack. >> But you knew you were heading in this area like just And how many ships you said? Three. >> And there were three uh for the first couple weeks and then it was two. There was a Vincent. My brother was actually on the Vincent. He was an intel officer on the Vincent. Um, which is kind of it was wacky. I hadn't seen him in a year and a half and he was 100 miles away from me on another ship. >> We ended up spending Thanksgiving that year together. He came over on a helicopter where we spent Thanksgiving together. >> But way to celebrate. >> Wow. It was a It was not Yeah. Uh 20. This year will be 24 years I guess. Um, >> so you're hanging out out there. >> Yeah. So we were in a box about 100 miles off Karachi Pakistan and flying missions >> into Afghanistan, you know, for almost 6 months. I didn't get off the ship other than to go flying. So I didn't touch touch land for 6 months. We pulled into Bahrain in uh early February, I think. >> The first mission you went on, let's go to that for a second. So >> take me into your headsp space if you don't mind. You're on the ship. You're What do you guys do on the ship? You play chess. You play >> Yeah, we flew We flew day and night. >> Really on the way over there. We flew day and night. That was the first year that I remember other than the IDF of like I had a bagel on Yum Kipur. I didn't put anything on. I just had a bagel cuz I I wanted to fly. I felt like my life depended on being as sharp as I could be. It's like getting ready for the big game. I knew I was going to war. I wanted to uh be as sharp as I could be and I wanted a little bit of blood sugar when I was trying to land on the ship that night. So, >> as you're non rabbi, I can tell you that what you did was okay. >> Okay, good. I didn't have a rabbi. you needed any validation from somebody. >> Thank you. >> You did the right thing. >> So, actually, look at that's the jet he was flying right there. >> That's it's much easier to have this conversation and put us there while we're looking at these uh at the pictures of the jets. >> Really talking about how fast does it go? What's the speed on it? >> A little bit faster than the speed of sound. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> What? Like 1,000 miles an hour? How? >> Yeah, about that. Depends on your altitude, but yeah. >> So, again, so you know, you're on your way and you're, you know, you're passing by the Swiss Canal. You're doing your thing. You're not sure yet. And you said every day and night you'd be flying though during those. >> Yeah, you generally fly day and night. >> So just while the ship is going just for practice just for practice. >> So you're constantly flowing with the ship. So as the ship is moving forward, you're taking the plane going up. >> The ship will turn into the wind operate. >> Yep. >> And when we're done operating, you'll move down range, move somewhere else. But it it needs to be oriented to the wind to take off and land. >> Got it. So, you're constantly in like combat ready. >> Oh, that's that's >> that's that's taken from a tanker. You can see the two the uh refueling probe starting to come out there and the nose on the right there. >> How many uh bombs are are on your plane attached to you? >> Um generally flew with uh either one big bomb, a 2,000 pounder or sometimes two thou 2,000 pounders, but generally uh like three 500 pounders became the load out. Um >> okay. >> In the beginning, we knew what we're going to go up. Like my first mission, I blew up a Taliban barracks. That was one 2,000lb bomb with a with a GPS. >> I'm sorry. We got to do that. >> That's what I did. That's his uh operating. >> He's about to take off right there. >> Amazing. So So we'll we'll watch that another time, but for now, I I want to feel the the reality of what it was with you in it. So >> you're going every day, you're practicing, you're keeping your, you know, you're keeping yourself at the edge of your seat, you're sharp, you're going to sleep every night. I'm imagine your heart is pounding a little bit throughout the days or you're calm as a cucumber. Like what's your >> Oh, no. I mean, you know what's crazy about the ship is um there's not that many of us on the There's 5,500 people on the ship, but there's not that many fighter pilots. >> Okay. >> There's three squadrons of three F-18 squadrons and there's about 18 in each squadron. Uh 18 pilots, and then there's one F-14 squadron, which I think had 15 pilots. Um so there's not that many of us. the whole ship, the refueling planes, the radar planes, the helicopters to pull us out of the water if we bail out. They're all there to support the the the onboard delivery plane, they're all there to to support us. The whole reason the whole carrier exists is so that we can go do our mission. >> If I can get this correct. >> Yeah. >> Over 5,000 people to support the three fighter jets that are going out. Three squads. Three squads. 50 pilots. 60. >> How many jets? >> 12 in each squadron. 36 F18s plus I think I think they had 10 F4. >> It's just the the that magnitude of of what amount of support it needs. >> Amount of support that it needs which obviously makes sense. >> That's a lot though. I mean most countries in the world don't have an air force that has what a carrier has. >> Wow. >> In terms >> what a comment >> and and and the and the capability naval aviators. I had a a cousin who married an F-15 Israeli F-15 guy and he said I always respect you because you land on ships. >> It's a whole different ball. >> It's a whole different ballgame. We had like a fraternity of the of the of the pilots on the ship. When when there's night operations, they they have a midrats, a midnight meal, and it doesn't start until the last guy lands. >> And when the last guy lands at night, there's like a collective exhale. >> Wow. >> It's risky. And if you the most experienced person can have a mishap, >> it's such a tiny runway on this uh target. >> Let's go back to my uh documentary that I'm painting here. So, you're you know, you're going around every day. You're practicing. This is a few days already happening as you're getting closer and closer to a mission that you don't even know when it's going to come. Right. >> When is the first time you hear about that mission? So the first So we're dropping this weapon which is a new weapon at the time which is a JDAM and most of the time like you especially with this with the F8 team we could simulate something and do it in a simulator and then you do it for real for training and then but the JDAM was a new weapon at the time the joint defense attack munition which is a GPS guided weapon and we had one laptop computer that was secret a secret laptop that had the software to drive this thing and we had never done it we never done it never dropped it. This gets back to the training. Like, so we had 18 of us around one laptop trying to figure out how to do it. And at the time, my plane didn't have a G uh they had G. For some reason, it took like 10 minutes for the GPS to align on the ship because you had to tell where it was in the world off off the so you have to align the INS, the inertial navigation. So, it took like 10 minutes on the deck of the carrier to get the jet to know where it was. It's not like your iPhone, which always knows where it is right now. And then once the jet knew where it was, you'd have to figure out there's a special cable to connect to the to the bomb. This is bringing me back 25 years, but a special uh cable that you'd have to tell the bomb where it was and then make sure everything was working. And this is you're going to destroy things and kill people with this thing. It needs to work right. So there was a lot of stress like when we found out what our first mission was and what our load out was and that we're dropping these these weapons that we we went up on the deck that day to to take a physical look at the bomb to see it for the first time and to see the cable for the first time and it was a few hours before we were doing it for real and we didn't want I didn't want to mess it up. You know, no one wants to mess it up but you want to do the mission. So, we uh you know, we're literally 18 of us huddled around this one laptop going through it. Oh, go back. You know, I missed it. Go back page trying to figure out how to do this. And then um and we went and did it and everything went well. And it was like because like it gets back to the years and years of training where you're just never comfortable, always trying to figure it out, leaning on each other, you know, you knew one guy was a little bit more geeky than hey dude, tell me what I need to know. You know, like that. And it's just all you're trained for that. >> Love it. You're hovered over the laptop, 18 of you. You go look at the missile itself. You get familiar with it. You touch it, right? >> You feel it. And then you hear that what the mission is. They get you all together. >> Taliban barracks in a place called Harat, which is in the southwest of of Afghanistan, >> which you never heard of before in your life. You're there for the first time. Yeah. >> You never even practice going in this area that you're going to. You're just using guiding. >> The big thing was the air fueling. We need to refuel lots of times. >> Interesting. >> At night, you know. Yeah. Um >> but before the first mission happened, they're telling you, okay, this is the barracks that you're going to >> and uh we have intel to tell us that this is a targeted area that you need. They don't tell you came through uh a Taliban base and I had a barracks building which was three stories tall and we had this primitive like >> really primitive software to weaponer. So I I fused that bomb to go off on the ground floor because a contact fuse might go off on the roof and then you're just going to blow the top off the building, but I want to destroy the whole building. >> So how do you fuse the bomb? So we we like estimated what it was made out of like what >> what the what the structure is made out of. >> Yeah. It was like probably uh you know bad you know low low uh quality concrete this many floors. I I forget the data we put in there but it was a primitive system to weaponer and then it told you the fusing time. So when when the bomb impacted the roof how many milliseconds later before it went off. And in the end you go through the software but then it's like ah you know what I'm doing this I think this makes sense and worked out. Yeah. My brother was an imagery officer on the Vincent. So then I on the secret internet I emailed him and said, "Hey, I did my first mission. Here's the dimpy," which was the target number. And so he sent a satellite picture the next day on the secret thing of what? Because I I got a picture of the building before I went. But uh the next day, you know, he sent me a an after, you know, >> you get to see if the calculation was good. >> It worked out. You could barely tell it was a building. Yeah. There's like one corner that you can kind of make out was a corner, but the rest of it was just >> So you're told you're told there's a mission. You all get together and it's at night. >> Everyone had different missions. Some did bridges like I was in a foreship that was going against this base >> and you all went at once. >> Yeah. The four of us and we came through on one pass and J I couldn't believe it. The GPS that at that mo almost that moment I was like I'm not a fighter pod. I'm an aircraft carrier cuz that that bomb's an aircraft. It flew itself into the target. So it was really a um I had never trained on it ever and we're doing it for real. The first time I did a real mission was in this weapon I'd never used before and it was really like uh turning a page in in airto ground combat. >> It sounds like you literally dropped the first bomb. >> Well, >> so to speak, you know, your your group >> I think maybe that might be the Yeah. the first time a GPS weapon was used in combat. I don't know. >> Or just like the war against 911. Maybe >> that wasn't like I got my air medal for supposed back in the time back in those days UAVs were a new thing and they weren't weaponized. They only were you know surveillance. So the the Predator or whatever other drones were out there would watch stuff, but we'd have to go blow it up. >> Wow. >> So my air metal was for the first time supposedly, I don't know if the air metal says the first time that a a predator, an unmanned aerial vehicle, which is a predator at the time, gave me a talk on to blow up al-Qaeda leadership. So who knows if it was actually the first time, but it's it's the way it was. like and and it nothing was like I said the training even though this might be new stuff the training was just we were ready for it >> first night you come back you you just did a mission the four of you went and you just you completed it you fly back what's what's the energy like is everyone clapping their hands when you're coming down or are you talking to your fellow >> I need to get to sleep because I need to do it again tomorrow >> because you you come back for a night trap on the ship so everyone's just in serious mode >> yeah I think we took off at midnight we're probably back at 5 in the morning and um you know, you're you're wound up and then the sun rises. You kind of wanted the sun to be rising so it wasn't a night trap. But if if the sun was rising, then your body was more awake and be hard to get sleep for the next night. And that's just the cycle. You just it was it was a battle to to get sleep to to get rest. >> What's your trick to falling asleep? >> I couldn't. There were nights I couldn't. There were days I remember my I lived in a twoman with uh with another guy, a guy from Arkansas. I grew up on a farm in in Arkansas and he's like a brother to me and he ran he wrote the schedule who was doing what mission and I I remember having to get up for a flight. He knew who what pilots were available in the squadron and who what everyone had been doing because he wrote the schedule. I remember getting up and the ship changed it whole routine. 6 PM was 6 a.m. Breakfast was served at 6 PM. Again, the whole ship oriented itself so that we could operate in in a in an effort to try and shift us to the night page. We called the night page cuz we were the night carrier for the first two months. And like it it didn't really work. Like so one night I got up, it was one morning, one night I got up to go flying and I hadn't slept and I'm like how do I do this? I got to refuel six, seven, eight times maybe. I gotta drop bombs. I gotta not kill myself when I come back to land. And I remember telling my buddy like, "Dude, I how he's like, "Dude, there's no one else. You got to go." My wife sent me a bunch of candy bars at Thanksgiving when Thanksging. >> Um, >> jeez, battle of attrition over here. >> It's really It's like the NASCAR racers, you know? They have to be in shape. They have to be totally fit. They have to be mentally aware like it's it's it's it's not just fighting, you know, flying the plane. No, >> there's a lot of ancillary things going on that you got to be managing to be at your best self. >> 100%. >> I'm I'm curious. How much money >> are you earning right now from the military? What are you getting paid? >> I'm getting I stayed in for 20 years, so I have a pension. >> No, no, no. At that moment, what you're fighting a you're flying a fighter jet, dropping bombs in Afghanistan, basically managing America's war right now. >> Yeah. You're not paid that much. And it's um I think at that time I don't know 70 grand a year in 2001 maybe 60 grand. We get flight pay which a little bit more. Um >> so you're making like a public school salary public school teacher. >> It was it was better school. Yeah. A little bit better I would think that back in those days like >> Yeah. No back then, right? It's uh it's decent salary. >> A decent salary. Everyone gets paid the same, >> right? >> Um the compet the competition is like who you are as a pilot, as a person, >> as a dude. Like um >> it's bragging, right? It's more like uh >> Yeah. No one really brags. >> Not brags. >> Yeah. Everyone kind of knows. >> Yeah. >> No. Like when when this when the sun's setting on the carrier and like the sun's getting low and we're doing night ops, you can tell if someone's scared >> if they've lost their edge. You can tell and you don't talk about it. You just know. Someone had a really bad night last night. You know, how's he going to do tonight? There's a camera watching every landing, you know, and you know, you know, someone's having a, you know, maybe not doing so great. He's coming in to land and man, you know, you knew how he landed the night that night before and it was a bad really bad landing and man, I hope you come on, dude. You got this. You know, like you just everyone kind of knows, not just your squad or not just the 18 of you, but the other Navy guys. We all got to know each other. We sometime we do missions two two Marines and two Navy like like we were one big team and um you don't you don't really no one brags no one talks about it but it's a constant like you're constantly thinking oh man I owned him yesterday in a dog fight >> it's crazy >> to push yourself keep pushing yourself >> push yourself yeah you know having the support of others any rituals that you had did you listen to certain music when you woke up >> my my wife sent me an album for a band we liked and it was >> what' you listen to band called Better Than Ezra >> Oh Better Than Ezra I remember them >> my really good buddy. He's from Arkansas. The guy from Arkansas, he had a whole sleeve of CDs and I think all but one of them were Johnny Cash. So whenever I hear Johnny Cash, I think back to >> to that. How So how how long how many missions? How long did it take this process? >> I did 42 missions in Afghanistan. Um how long of a period? >> About over four or five months. >> Four or five months. Any mishaps? Any uh it's almost it's acceptable to lose aircraft when you're operating on a ship? >> Yeah. um less and less so over the years. But >> but you're saying you didn't have >> we didn't have one. >> What a blessing though. Say all of you just you know >> I felt Yeah. like we it was really incredible. I think because when it's game day you reached that peak performance and uh everyone came back. >> You know I said I can keep going forever and I'd love to learn so much more but I do want to I do want to get to where you're up to now and because that's also interesting for me. We've gotten so distracted with this whole history of yours and everything cuz it really deserves a podcast in it on its own. But like when I heard you were coming and you were united uh pilot I'm like wow that's so interesting to me like I want to I have so much like to discuss like it's like an hour and a half in Michael I was like now we're up to that there yet. >> I only read one thing on Ch. But um >> but no I I I want to know >> our podcast is going to be delayed. So you had flown these missions. You continued to serve uh for the following 15 years or so, right? Right. Um seen any combat beyond that? >> No, not in the Marine Corps. >> Okay, good. And it's like, you know, uh >> Thank God. I think you've seen enough. >> Thank God. And um and then you decided to hang your hat of service and then went to work for commercial. Tell tell me about that process, the transition. >> In the Marine Corps, even before on my way to flight school, I was in a squadron for a few months with a lot of reservists who were airline guys. And I realized that you I'd already start kind of started flying a little bit and I realized that I never want to stop. So although um I never planned to be an airline pilot, you know, it just seemed like I had, you know, was the logical next thing. And so I um kind of always thought I'd do that. And uh I was when you when you get your wings, you have an eight-year commitment. And now I think it might be 10 years even. But um so I I only got my wings after being in the Marine Corps for three and a half years. And I then I had eight years to go. So when I was done with my operational tour, I still had like two and a half years left of Marine Corps time and I was I wanted to get out. I was planning to get out. I had done two deployments. Lily only was alive for one of them. Um but saying goodbye to your kids for seven months is not natural. It's not right. It's not >> um not something I wanted to keep doing. So two of those was enough. And uh I said I'm going to go be an instructor and I'll teach kids how to fly and then I'll be able to transition to the airlines. Um octo uh age 65 happened in 2007 where the airline industry the mandatory retirement went from 60 to 65 and that's when I could get I could get out that next summer and but the the the the progression career progression was stagnant because of that. um it already a downturn from September 11th in the airline industry and then with the financial crisis of 0708 was another hit to the airline industry. So they had they didn't need any more pilots. There was no expansion going on. So I said um right at that moment the uh Marine Corps asked me to go be an atache. So I went and did that because they asked me to do it because they needed a guy who could fly so I had an airplane and I could stay current. Um, and then I at that point I said I'm staying in for retirement because that took me to 15 and a half years. Um, and then uh so I had to do another couple jobs but I was able to finish up current as an instructor pilot. Um, and then I got hired at at United right right like went right in the door. >> You knew you wanted to work for United specifically? >> Well, I wanted to work for Continental back in '08. >> Okay. >> Because I wanted to come home. It was literally my ticket to come home to my hometown. Lily was able to go to my middle school in high school, the one I graduated from. And uh being military kids, you know, that was like something I wanted to give them. A little bit of >> Let's give a shout out. What school was this? The >> Rumson Fairman High School. >> Oh, nice. Okay. >> And then um so yeah, I always wanted Continental and then with the merger became United. It's amazing airline. It's been an amaz I've been there 11 years now. November was >> You wanted United. I'm I'm just curious like over Delta or American%. >> I'm so curious about this topic. So at the at the moment in in ' 08 the place to be in 0708 when I was first thinking about getting out the place to go was Southwest which seems kind of weird now but it was the place to go. >> Um but I always wanted Continental. >> Are you talking about in terms of compensation? Are you talking about in terms of >> Yeah. flexibility stock? You want to get a you know you want to get inv video when it's X not Y, >> right? >> You know you want that's the way I looked at it. And it's also I what I always told the my marine pilots like my my Navy students as well like um this is not a date this is not a girlfriend this is a marriage because it's all about seniority when you go in an airline a pilot's a pilot a captain's a captain you know how I get my schedule it's where where I am let's say on on the line for the buffet at the kdish is based solely on the date of hire yeah >> so it's you don't ideally you want to go to an airline and and like you're getting married, you know, I want to pick the right woman. I want to pick the right airline. So, for me, um, Continental and then United, because of the Newark base being 45 minutes from my hometown, I didn't want to commute. I wanted to be able to drive to work. Commute is when you fly to work. So, I wanted to be able to drive to work, which gives you a lot of flexibility and a lot of, you know, you know, I once went um for fun and I drove a race car around the tracks and it was exhilarating. It hit 200 miles an hour and it was crazy. And then when I drove back home, I was like, "What's going on here?" Like, I'm doing 60 go. >> That's what I'm curious about you is is uh are you finding any thrill out of it? Are you enjoying it >> in flying? >> Yeah. Right now, you going to commercial? I mean, >> even in the even in the Marine Corps. >> Yeah. >> Like it wasn't thrilling. It sounds crazy, but >> um the same thing that you just described my we one of the things you learn is low-level flying. So in this in the TA4 that I flew, like I said, it didn't have a computer chip. There was no recording device, no recorder in it. So the the the instructors in there were like a little bit cowboyish. And we did our low levels at 50 ft. So we'd fly around at 420 knots, which is like over 500 miles an hour. At 50 ft. >> Wow. >> In in the canyons out west in uh Arizona, New Mexico, and Southern California. So, we're like down in the in the ground in the earth in the um flying very fast. And when you first do that, the world, it takes a couple minutes to get used to that. We call it the speed rush speed. But then you develop a speed rush baseline. And I remember my instructor at one point being like, "Hey, go up to 50, go up to 100 feet." So, I go up to 100 feet doing 420 and the world kind of stopped >> because that was half as half the speed rush. Same thing. So, then all of a sudden, like flying at 100 feet was like boring. I want to get back down to 50 where it was like a little bit challenging and that's the way it always is like it the minute you is is a thrill for a second and then it becomes all right routine and you're constantly >> you don't you're not even flying an F-18 fasten even dog fighting when I was teaching dog fighting it was almost like I could be thinking about three things and teaching it >> when you're first doing it your head your mind's exploding call your helmet's on fire because your your your mind's exploding like Um, but it everything that's what it's it's about being routine. Nothing is if it's exciting, you're doing something wrong. >> Love it. So, it's time to get into the secrets of the airline industry because, you know, when I'm sitting on a plane and we're on the runway, >> right, >> and they cancel the flight and they go back because of weather, right? >> I always ask myself, who decides that it's weather? Who decides that it's not? Right? >> Is it governmentrun? Do they have to say that it's me? You know, they sometimes say it's mechanical because you could get your money back if it's not. And right, >> I'm curious about that world. Here's it's it's a very gray world. And here here's a a good example. You're at Newark and there's a line of thunderstorms coming through, right? And um you can get out now. Let's say you're trying to go west going to Chicago or California, but the line is coming from Pennsylvania and there's some hole maybe there's some holes in it. You can get out now, but you have a minor mechanical that sets you back half an hour. And now the holes in the in the thing closed up and you can't get through that. And now everyone's trying to get around the south through Georgia, get around that line of thunderstorms in the south. And now there's a hu everyone who was trying to go west needs to go all the way down to Georgia to go west. So now you're like 10th in line, right? And then the pilot times out because that minor mechanical and he's on his third flight of the day and he doesn't have the crew day for it. So now you're two hours late and the pilot's timeout. Is that a crew issue? Is that a mechanical issue? Or is that a weather issue? So it it depends. It you know and obviously the airline is going to they're very very transparent with the app now. I I found out a lot of times from the app what you know what's going on. Um uh for weatherwise you mean? >> No. Like the other day or um there was Yeah. Um now not now my iPad shows exactly the same thing as the app. So it's the same thing. But >> yeah um yeah like the other day um I went to Chicago and back and it was when the uh there were long long waits for wheels up times to get back and you know I landed Chicago and I was coming back supposed to come back to New York and I I open up my iPad and it's two and a half hour delay 2:15 and then it became 2:45 delay just because there weren't enough slots there were wheels up times to come back here. Um yeah, so you it's it's what what's on your app, your United app is pretty much um yeah and the other day actually it was I remember looking and saying now this isn't quite right, you know, because um we were delayed first flight of the day that shouldn't have happened but there was a maintenance issue on the jet and we were delayed um they they ended up saying this jet's not serviceable so we had to go to another jet and then all But our original jet had been catered. So all the all the catering carts were in the original jet. So the people by the time I got out of the cockpit, they had they had they knew they were going to gate 80. I got out to the to the gate area and there's no one left there. They were already all the passengers were at the new new gate, you know, and I we had to get the flight plan and took So we get out there and now I have the new jet, the gas I need, the the people on board, the car goes on board. Oh, wait. It hasn't been catered because they had to get an extra catering truck to go to the old jet. Instead of taking it from the warehouse directly to the jet, they had to go unload it and reload it. >> Give it more time. >> Yeah. And then so we end up taking off an hour late. I think it was going to LA. And we take off and I see the reason for the delay is servicing. They blame the caterers. It's not the caterer's fault. The jet maintenance should have had the jet ready. >> Yeah. >> I'm sorry your your plane was late. The app said because of servicing. >> Can I just point out I don't quite frankly care what it is and whose fault it is. Here's what I know. When it comes to these airlines, it's not just United. It's not exclusive to them. And they all do it. They do whatever they want. We are at their mercy at the end of the day. The passengers, >> uh, we fly when they tell us to. We go home and the flight is canceled when they tell us to. >> And weather, service, who cares? Who cares? I feel like they get to do sort of whatever they want. And it's it's a little bit not fair. Like as the consumer, I would expect a little bit of accountability to the point where we get some some rebate, a refund or like a free ticket every now and then because of our feel like nobody cares. I feel like the airlines get to pretty much like what's the deal with that? Do the does the government regulate them a little bit? Anybody hold them accountable? >> There's no there's no the airline has no interest in delaying you. We only make money when that jet takes you where you need to go and is on to the next mission. There's no reason why the airline wants to have any delay. >> Okay, I get by but I'm sorry to interrupt. I get this. I fly literally every other week for 20 years. I have really important questions to ask you. Serious a serious question. >> By the way, flown on one of his flights. >> We fly out of Newark a lot. >> So, I I need to know a few a few very important questions. First of all, if you don't mind, it's just like >> I'm I'm living in the East Coast. What's the best airport to fly out of? Is it JFK, Newark, or Lagu? >> On the other side of the river, Newark. >> Newark. work is always if you're in Manhattan, you can go either way. >> It doesn't matter. If I had a choice between all the river any you have to go one way. >> If I had a choice between all three, which airport is performing the best >> as far as reliability? Which one? >> As far as taking off on time and you know, >> I think JFK has the most resources. North has a lot in compressed area. >> Okay. >> Um but >> so you're saying stay away from LaGuardia. Got it. Okay. >> Well, LaGuardia, no. LaGuardia can sometimes you get in and out of there real easily. It the answer is it depends. >> Okay. >> It's where are you on this side of the river? I am, but I would literally rather drive 20 extra minutes to go to a better airport. >> Maybe. And it depends on the flight. Depends where you're going. >> Depend. You're saying it depends on so many things. Back to the gray thing. Okay. >> Depends on where you're going cuz the airport. I'm going to keep pushing. I'm going to keep pushing. I have other good questions. So, when you when I'm flying and I go to Google flights, it gives me 20 different options. I can go to Delta, I can go to American, I can go to United, I can go to JetBlue. Literally almost every time I fly and I'm talking about going to Chicago, going to LA, going to Florida, I you're obviously you work for United. You might have to say United. >> We already have the most points. What do you want to >> No, my my question is, you know, you we're talking about mechanical, we're talking about catering, we're talking about logistics, we're talking about processes. >> Airlines ultimately have to take responsibility for all these things, right? So, if they have a more well-run oiled machine, right, then likelihood that I'll get out on time, >> 100%. Is there an airline that ranks like if you fly Delta or United? >> I think Delta and United are pretty much neck and neck and American's not far behind. Okay. >> We like I said the resources we have now with with the there's so much data going in. >> Sure. >> Uh the there it is an incredible I've been doing it 11 years now. I'm amazed at how operationally efficient it is when when there's a wrinkle in the system. How we compensate how we we we make it. >> Are you talking about United? >> United. >> Okay. Yeah. Because does that mean >> I'm Delta. I don't fly for them, but Delta I'm sure has the same technology. It gets down to the dollar. I'm not kidding. >> And Michael, these things you can Google and see how the airlines rank and how to airports are the best or not. >> You might ask good questions like >> there's so much data. >> You actually do. Are you actually pushing buttons the entire time or you actually that was a question? >> You just like take I don't mind you getting >> I don't mind you getting to that question. I still I'm still pushing. I'm sorry. I have to because ultimately I've heard in the past that Virgin Airlines or other airlines like that they pay extra to be closer perhaps to taking off. Can you tell me about that? >> It depends on like like if Delta owns it owns it like you go to Hartsfield, Delta is going to have the best bait the best gates. You go to Newark, we're United's going to have the best gates. >> There you go. That makes a difference, right? >> It makes a difference. >> Okay, perfect. So United So United Newark, that's the marriage over there. >> 100%. JFK, who owns JFK as far as airlines? We don't we're not in JFK at all. Okay. >> I think that's all the other airlines besides United in this area. >> United is not in JFK whatsoever. >> No, we pulled out we gave our slots to Delta. It's about slots, you know, landing >> because that gives you seniority as far as who's taking out and who's going to the front of the line and getting that pocket to get out, I guess. >> Yeah. pretty it's pretty um like I was at Heathrow a couple weeks ago and I felt like British Airways was getting better treatment but you know there's a reason there's stuff you don't even as a pilot I don't know I don't know what every flight in front of me in line is going and maybe I'm waiting uh in line for takeoff because of my SL my uh exit fix like the fix that I'm exiting the area on maybe like there's spacing there's a guy coming from JFK and a guy coming from LaGuardia for the same fix that I don't know about those guys so we can't hit there at the same moment in time So why is that why is American taking off in front of me? Well, probably because he's going to a different fix, different departure fix. So it's uh there's so much stuff going on. It's it's an incredibly huge, you know, the United's music is Gershwin and it is so fitting like I you know our when you're on hold or whatever you hear that Gershwin in Chicago when you're going through the tunnel there you hear Gershwin. It is a symphony when it all comes together and we push on time like and I have you know a window into all the different moving parts and to some extent I can you know lean lean on that but um it all when it all comes together it is a symphony. It it it is an incredibly complex operation. >> Love it. I have one more question. So if I'm flying United Newark that's smart right because United Absolutely right owns Newark so to speak right and that and that helps. What about just one tip for flying so you could fly less stressed right? A lot of people fly I I I chill when I fly. I fly an hour and a half before and I go >> a lot. Yeah. So um >> what are the tips for flying like early morning or you know >> I like any other tips that you >> I call the dawn patrol. That's what we called it in the Marine Corps. The first flight of the day. It's painful to get up but the jets generally there. What people don't realize is is that jet is constantly flying. Um it's like the opposite of the Pony Express when the Pony Express riders they used to swap horses because the horses could run like 12 miles. Now I'll take your word for it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Now the horse keeps running. The plane can fly all the time, but the people can't fly 24 hours a day. But the the plane is constant. The plane that's taking you wherever you're going to LA might have come in from Shannon, Ireland. And you know, it's a constant, you know, we don't make money when our jets on the ground. We make the money when when the when the jets are flying. So, first flight of the day, the plane probably got in that night, maybe the red eyee, couple hours. First flight of the day is always the best. Definitely wouldn't fly in the afternoon in the summertime around here. Thund, you know, daily heating thunderstorms, which is the afternoon thunderstorms are a real thing. And it might be a blue sky here, but the way the airspace is, if there's thunderstorms in the wrong place trying to get into Newark, your plane's not going to be there on time. You might your plane might have to go to an alternate because it doesn't have the gas to hang around to wait to get into Newark. It might be in Philadelphia or um, you know, somewhere else. So, and that's going to go you up. So early morning if you can't do that maybe later in the evening when you can like say yeah my plane is coming in from LA and it's landing on time. I'm going to head to the airport. >> Okay. I appreciate it. I do have more questions but I'm going to I'm going to pass it over to Ushi cuz he's curious about the >> I want to know exactly what Stephan I'm also very curious about. >> I want to know exactly like how much of it do you as the pilot actually control versus just push a button and it just automatic? Like I imagine when you take off like that's very manual, right? The actual take process. >> Taxing is very manual. >> Yeah. Um, so you know, taxing is moving the jet on the ground. That's very manual. I'm literally steering it and starting it and stopping it. And then the takeoff is very manual, but even that's somewhat automated. The throttles most of the time set themselves. But I'm airline flying. I usually fly for 10 or 15 minutes until I get bored. And then I put the autopilot on. It's kind of like you got like when you get on the Parkway, you know, you you drive around here, but when you get on the Parkway, if there's no traffic, all I'm setting the cruise control, I can take a little bit of the work off. So we do the same thing. We get up to a certain altitude. optional like if you wanted to fly the plane the entire time yourself you could. >> No. When you're up in the cruising cruising altitudes, everyone's got to be on autopilot. >> Oh, the automatically you have to go to autopilot. >> And then coming down the same thing. If there's bad weather, I generally tend to fly a little bit earlier. Like if it's going to be really windy on landing, gusting, challenging landing, I'll fly a little bit earlier so I can get, you know, get the motor skills going, get get warmed up. Um, but you could theoretically when the weather's bad and I can't see, I have to be able to see to land, you know, I have to use my eyes for the landing. The plane doesn't the plane can land and track down the runway on after landing >> and that's the only way. >> You could sit back for the entire even the landing part. >> Yeah, I could. >> You push a couple of buttons and the plane lands. >> Then you don't have to see when you're landing. Technically >> plane doesn't have to see. I have to see if I'm physically at the controls manually landing. I have to be able to see something. >> Well, when you when you land, do you land with auto land or do you actually land >> once or twice a year? I have to use auto land when the weather's bad. >> But why wouldn't you always use auto land? >> Good question. We'd rather trust a machine than a human making an error perhaps. >> Uh maybe there's I think there'll be there'll come a day and a lot and a lot of the airlines not United but some of the foreign carriers especially use the automation more >> and maybe that you know like there was a mishap in San Francisco that might have been part of that being because automation in the end is a crutch. So if you're leaning on a crutch all the time, >> you're not as strong as you know you're not you're not gonna walk as strong, right? If you're on crutches, if so automation is a crutch, we I like to look it as a tool. That's the way the airline looks at it as a tool that you should use the appropriate times. But in the end, we need to be able to fly. Like getting back to my uh analogy of like being good at directions. The best is if you have a good if you can read a map and you're good at directions and you have an iPhone and you have automation and you could do both, >> you could do everything. So that's the reason why you shouldn't and my airline doesn't you know encourages people to fly to keep the skills up and to keep >> okay >> this is for me a very important question Michael if I could have just one question to ask him like this is what I would ch this is what I would pick >> I am a what you call a very anxious flyer >> and I flew a pretty decent man I think I fly more than the average person flies >> and it's always an adventure for me already the night before I'm getting anxious about the fact that I'm flying the next day >> while I'm on the flight the entire time I'm nervous You worried about lo miss missing the flight? What are you worried about? >> No, no, no, no. The safety, the the danger in flying is what I'm worried about, >> right? >> Uh I don't love the uh comfort part of it either, but that's, you know, not what keeps me up at night. While I'm on the flight, if there's a little turbulence chair, I hold on to my chair like >> or to me I or to my whoever's next to me, whether I know them or not. >> Um and I'm just always nervous like something is going to go wrong. Too many things have to go right, >> you know? I'm in this like metal tube like 30,000 ft in the air and if god forbid something goes wrong, there's not a lot of options for us here. I'm not on solid ground. >> So, I'm always very nervous about it. And I keep hearing from people, it's the safest thing. You have more of a chance of getting struck by lightning and dying that way than you do on a flight. And there's more automobile accidents that goes on. You die faster from a car crash than you would from a plane crash. All that good stuff I keep hearing. Yet somehow, I'm not convinced. I'm still very, very nervous. I'm still very anxious. What could you tell me as a I'll tell you one of the things I'm very nervous about is >> I think of the the amount of maintenance that has to go into how often do they actually maintain these planes and it's some lazy guy that's at the bottom that has to do something he forgets to do it and there's so many things that could go wrong here that I feel like I just can't trust the system. I can't trust it completely that I feel like I I'm going to be safer. What could you tell me? >> It is 100% the safest thing you could do. like the the most dangerous thing is getting to the airport once you're there. And but these are just statistics. I can tell you this for three hours and but it it is truly the the safest thing. Yeah, you are in an aluminum tube hurdling through space at 8 n 10 miles a minute. You know, you're going you're going around the we demolish time and space. I mean, I can take off and take you to Johannesburg, you know, in one flight or I could take you to Hong Kong in one flight. It's an amazing thing that we do, but it is done to a level of safety that is uh it's it's astounding to me even after 11 years of seeing it. I I I was I consider I love my my my family my um we just hosted some uh some widows from Israel the last chabas and it was like a a nightmare of mine to not to go and not come back to my wife and kids. Like I was obsessed with being of course I was going to get the mission done being as safe as I could be as a Marine fighter pilot. Of course I had to get the mission done. I get to the airlines and I realize that me on the contin of like cowboy safet dude. I was the safest dude in the squadron. I get to the airlines and I'm like whoa flying a single seat fighter. I was a complete cowboy. Like the levels of safety we have in the airlines. And there's a reason the statistics back it up. Um you guys would be hardressed to remember the last time an American airliner crashed. Can you remember one? It was in your lifetimes, but it was a long time ago. It is so the statistics back it up. We United Airlines alone flies half a million people a day. That's one airline and you know sometimes more, sometimes less, but on average half a million people a day fly on us safely most time on time. The levels of safety are incredible. It it is a it's I'm honored to be a part of it. And that's what I would tell you. Have you tried vodka? Xanax? No. So that's what I would tell you. But for you to really turbulence, which is most people ask me about is the same as, you know, some days you look at the ocean. Uh yesterday the ocean was flat. It was glass. Um some days you look at it and it's choppy. That's the same thing with air. Air is just a fluid like the ocean, right? So when when you go through pockets of choppy air, you're going to bounce around a little bit. The plane is overbuilt like 20x stronger than it needs to be to get through any kind of turbulence. Have you ever heard of a plane losing a wing over turbulence? It just doesn't happen. Sometimes people bounce around if >> but the wing looks so fragile when it's flopping around. It looks like it's so feeble and like it could be easily like be like I'm not an engineer but that gets into like tensil strength thing like something that bends is in in some ways stronger than something that doesn't bend. It's more brittle. So the aircraft is engineered to be it's incredibly engineered to do this mission. It's just perfect tool for the mission and you're so safe up there if you really want. Have you ever flown an airplane? Like gone and flown? >> Flown one? >> Yeah. >> What do you mean flown one? >> So you can go to an airport like been on the cockpit? >> Yeah. You can go to any flight school at any airport and I don't know for 150 or 200 bucks go on what they call discovery flights. >> And I've told this to a number of people. I don't know who's taking me up on it, but if you go actually fly an airplane like the instructor will take you up there and he'll let you fly it. You'll see how simple it is and you're going to bounce around a lot in a light light airplane a lot more than you do in a heavy airplane. Um even a 737 which is one of our smaller airplanes at the airline. um bounces around more than like the plane I fly now or the the the trip 7 the mass of the airplane like a big ship going through the ocean doesn't feel the waves whereas a little a little speedboat feels the waves >> right >> so it is it's it's scary because you're not in control and you can't see the waves you know and you're not in the end you're not in control yeah >> so unless if you really wanted to solve it go fly an airplane and get at the controls and see how simple it is if you really wanted to show you ready. >> But in the end, it's >> going up an elevator. You know what I mean? Like if it's the highest floor. I'm serious. If I go to a hotel, I don't want to stay in the highest floors. I >> I am so scared of heights. I'm really paranoid of heights. I I can't deal with it. >> And the plane is the pinnacle of of the heights for me. So, it's really really a challenge. >> But I, you know, I a little secret, pilots have an extreme respect for gravity. We're not afraid of heights because I can be an airplane at like 8 miles high and I'm totally fine. I used to my plane I used to fly. I used to go 8 miles high with a view of a motorcycle. I'm totally fine. But if I'm not if I'm next to the edge of a cliff with I'm not tied in with repelling gear, no thanks. On a tall building, no thanks. It's um we have we we understand gravity mo more than most people and yeah there's I think fear of heights is natural. I mean it's a good thing >> and so you're always calm like just another day in the office like you never get nervous about anything like for >> the only thing that stresses me out is inconvincing inconveniencing the passengers. The other day I didn't know how long the catering trucks were going to be >> and hey ops you know what's up with the catering trucks? Oh, yeah. They're at the other airplane. All right. How long is it going to take? I don't know. Like, I don't know if it's gonna be 10 minutes or 30 minutes, right? And what do I tell the people? That's the only stresses me out. Like, in terms of operational stuff, >> you you got it down there. >> My job is to make it so boring to make this flight to London the most boring thing ever. >> I'm curious if anything stresses you out. I mean, what what do you stress over? What's your What? >> My daughter being pissed off me. >> Not getting not getting a kosher meal. Has that ever happened? >> Yeah, it does. Yeah. >> Oh, okay. Yeah. a real short. >> Do you guys get the same meals we do? You get the same food. >> I get business class kosher, which is really It's amazing. >> I feel like you deserve that. >> No, it's amaz The airline is amazing. I I couldn't believe it. From day one, I selected business class kosher and if they have the I I've been called out to a flight two or three hours before the flight and somehow they get me the business, but sometimes they don't. >> Have you flown to Israel? >> Yeah, I used to do it a lot. >> Yeah. But October 7th changed that for you? >> No. No. Uh uh uh COVID. >> Yeah. Okay. And and I I wanted to become a captain, so I had to come down an airplane to become a captain. >> I see. So now you're domestic only. >> No, I go to London. I go to Europe. >> Oh. What's your favorite place to go to? >> Tel Aviv. >> Oh, nice. >> Like Paris. I had to learn French for the Marine Corps. So I like to practice French. Um >> are you in and out or do you like stick around wherever you go for like a day or two? >> No, generally when you go to Europe, you're there for a day. So it's not a day, like a 24-hour period. So most of the nights like now is when the flights start leaving. Five or six flights start leaving at this time of day. So when you go to Europe, you get there in their morning, which is kind of very early in the morning for us. >> Do you have a separate pilot voice? >> No. >> People you're hearing native. >> Like how do you say it? If you start off your sentence, what does it sound like when you first welcome? >> I know what you're waiting for. >> Yeah. Know I want to know how it sounds. Yeah. What do you say? >> Welcome aboard. Welcome aboard. United Flight XX. You know, >> regular tone. Okay. >> Some of the pilots are more talkative than others. Like some of them like they like tell you everything. They explain it to you nicely. And some of them are very curtain and direct. You only my first landing. That's a I tell you welcome aboard the flight time today. If there's any operational thing like a closeup time, I obviously cover that. I tell I get the weather in for the destination. I introduce my first officer. >> Um I usually know who the first officer is going to. >> Yeah. Well, I don't know who they are. I don't know. I know who they are by name, but you fly with different people. >> You meet them. You meet them for the first time every time you go on. Is that awkward or is that like >> No, it's amazing. It's It's amazing >> cuz you automatically connect cuz you're both like very >> Yeah. The first couple minutes you're kind of hanging out. How's your day going? You get to know the person. >> Sorry, I'm jumping only because of a time and we have to wrap up. So, but I have a couple more thoughts. You ever had to do an emergency landing >> in the Marine Corps? Actually, I did one here at United, but it was like nothing. It was the C I was a first officer and the captain's like, "Do you think we should declare an emergency?" I'm like, "Yeah, why not?" >> What was it? >> What's that? >> You ever have to put Phil? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Depending on the time of day when the first >> What was the like your co-pilot? Was they ever like >> They love it. They I the last two guys I flew with two guys ago, he he flew with a Bible. So he asked me what hey, what is what is being what's a Jew? What Jew is all about? So I said, "Hand me hand me your Bible." And I, you know, we're in the beginning of the Torah. So I I saw it. It was actually incredible translation, but a Christian Bible. I started going through I'm like, "Here's Abraham. He married Sarah. Here, you know, I went through it. >> They The guy flew the other day >> and we're walking out like he's like, "Dude, he literally said, "Dude, you're an inspiration." Wow. >> Because like we got to Chicago and it it was too early to take off to Davin before I took off. I had to do it in Chicago and hey dude, go get coffee whatever I got to pray. >> Wow, that's beautiful. >> He asked me like uh um it comes up a lot. >> Sometimes I say Psalms and I'm you know and he like you know for friends or who are who are ill or whatever it comes up all the time. We always talk about where you were before. Sometimes I bring up that I was in the IDF and they want to ask about that. So, you know, it it comes up a lot and and you'll find that pilots are spiritual people. Like I think because we're so in the like you said, I think like we see sunrises that no one should ever be able to see. We see >> we see things that no one like I was going to London the other day and I I see I see a satellite. It's always cool to see a satellite moving across tracking across the the night sky. I'm like, "Oh, dude, check out the satellite." And then another one showed up chasing it down and then another one and another one. And I think there were 20 of them and we're like, "Dude," he's like, "I think that's Starling." >> They're just like hanging out in the air. You're just like driving around. >> We're going to London. We're halfway to London. And he's like he he got on the internet. He's like, "Yeah, they um Starling launched tonight." >> What did you see it as? A light. You saw >> there were like like follow like ducks in a row. >> But what did you see as a light going the lights? >> Yeah. You could see satellites. >> Yeah. And and uh a star like a star that's moving, but there were like 20 of them in a perfect line. He's like, "Yeah, Starlink launched probably an hour before or whatever. 20 minutes. It launched from California, but it chased us down and he he did research on the layover and he's like, "Yeah, that was Starlink and it splits. It goes out like that and then it splits up somehow and covers the night covers goes where it needs to go." >> So cool. >> But we see stuff like the Northern Lights. We I mean >> that's the one thing that 911 took away. I remember when I was a little kid, I used to be able to go into the cockpit during the flight and stand there and watch. It was amazing. And you can't do it anymore. >> We bring I love bringing the kids up. We do it on the ground, but I remember doing that as a as a kid. >> What do you appreciate more? Sunrise, sunset, moonrise, moonset. >> It's all great. It's all great. Yeah. I mean, >> that's cool. You get to see it all. >> I see it all. And Yeah. >> The concept of moon rising and the moon setting. >> What I love is when the the moon's rising, the sun's setting. >> Oh, yeah. >> At the same time. >> You seeing it both sides of the world. >> I've had two sets sunsets in one day a few times. >> You know, the sunset like in the Marine Corps, you'd have to get nighttime. Like you had to log time a certain amount. So, we'd have to fly at night. So we go out there and be waiting for it to sun the sun to set so the sun sets and then you take off right after sunset and when you gain elevation you see the sun again. >> That's amazing. >> Yeah. Stuff like that. Like I could go on and on. >> I have to tell you this this has been uplifting, inspiring, and just like >> no pun intended. >> It's it's just been such a pleasure getting to know you. I feel like I made a friend today and and I'm so happy that you were able to come here. Thank you again for recommending us that we get together. I'm part of >> Yeah. Thank you and exactly not how they say it in the Hebrew way. Uh they're taking lone soldiers and giving them, you know, family feeling where everywhere they go around the United States. >> Camaraderie. >> A camaraderie. Exactly. A feeling of family. And that's beautiful. So, shout out to you guys. Uh I just joined a Tillin chat a few months ago and Michael Rapaort recently uh joined and he put himself out there and showing that he's putting on fillin every day. >> The actor. >> Yeah. Yeah. I have to ask you to please send me a selfie every once in a while from the cockpit. I'm going to put it on that chat and show people and I think it'll be inspiring for others. >> Well, maybe he could join that chat, Michael. >> Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if you want to join the chats that are going to It's all day long. You know, you're busy. >> You can mute it. >> But definitely. >> Do you want to use your your phone while you're >> No. No. >> Oh, you also don't have a phone? >> No. >> Under the cockpit? >> Yeah, we just as bored as us. Are you watching Are you watching movies? >> No. >> So, you're just talking to the co-p hang out. It's like It's actually like a podcast. I mean, we sit there. >> They should do a podcast. >> Yeah. >> Oh, wow. What a great idea. Somebody should do it. >> Part of the fun of like flying with a new guy all the time. Like I two weeks through a school I flew with a guy that had flown two or three times. Um but most of the time it's a new guy and you get to know him and >> you feel like you make a friend. Like you got to trust the guy. >> Yeah. Sure. um to begin with and then you go on a great you do a great >> what it may be routine for us in this day and age but it's not routine. It's an incredible >> feeling of of accomplishment to to to to accomplish that mission to get the mission to get people to London to wherever you're going. I have to ask you uh before I let you go, there is there's two things I want to ask you, but uh first of all, you have such an amazing uh history and experience from all different walks of life and you've gone through everything while being spiritual and finding you know uh orthodoxy and then you know from conservative so much that you went through in terms of also a job and a career and uh you know a path. What would your message be to the young people that are the young generation? >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm involved in the mentoring thing at Arkabad. And I told these guys the other the other day, um, do what you love. It It's a blessing to do that. Um, put the hard yards in, figuring out what you love, and then don't give up. Once you figure that out, you know, they say like, how do you chop down a tree? Well, you spend a lot of time sharpening the axe and make, you know, then you start chopping down the tree. Well, just figure out what you love and be very sure of that and then everything else falls into place. >> That's beautiful. I appreciate that. Um, you know, we also ask you, I don't know if you remember that we're going to ask you to pick a candidate who you think would be a good guest on the podcast. I have to ask you that before you go, but do you have any questions for us before we let you go? >> Not at all. It's been amazing. Thank you for an incredible experience. My first time on one of these things. People have said a number of times I should do it, and I don't look for it, but somehow it happened. And uh, >> we're going to make you sign an exclusivity, by the way. >> Exactly. I don't want to share you with anybody. And we need to also do part two. Michael, I love it. We got to get to this whole like >> on the cockpit. Anytime. >> There's so much stuff. Anytime. I love it. >> So, who would you recommend? >> Even to bring a guest into the cockpit if you wanted to. >> Absolutely. Yeah. Not while we're flying, but on the ground and do it all the time. >> Can we do a podcast there? That would be interesting. >> I one of my my first flight to Tel Aviv. Gado was uh >> on asking what kind of celebrities he had on. >> Yeah, she's one of the few a few few others. But so, uh I went to Tel Aviv on the trip 7 the first time I went there. And so this is the flight back and uh the you know I'm doing my stuff in the cockpit and one of the flight attendants came up and said hey go Gdot in 1K or one whatever that seat was and I didn't know the layout of the seat. So I looked on the app and I said oh I just been talking to her daughter. I just was talking to her because I was I went out to go to the bathroom whatever before we took off and and I said uh there was this this like 10 12-year-old girl in first class right there and I was like hey do you want to come check out the cockpit? And she's like no no no. Her mom's like go and it was Galadote. I didn't realize it. And I said, "Uh, >> don't worry about it." You know, she go's like, "She's go." And then she's like, "I'm sorry. She's shy." You know, I'm like, "If she changes her mind when we land, she wants, please come on up." And uh yeah, so and then um so we have a we have a a bunk in that plane, which is right over first class. So I got home and the bunk it was right over where Galadote was sitting. So I was like, "You take like a six hour nap coming back from Tel Aviv." So, I got back and uh I was like, "Honey, I was I slept on top of Gaga last night, but um yeah." So, uh >> that's fantastic. >> Yeah. So, I don't know why that came up, but um >> it doesn't have to podcast in of itself. No, we're saying to do a podcast on the cockpit that we can go on, but I was asking you essentially who would you recommend that would >> So, I threatened my wife last night. >> Yeah. >> That uh I was going to recommend her. >> Oo. >> Um she's like, "Forget about it." Obviously, I thought about my kids. I mean, this there's American heroes out there that people don't know about, and those are the kids of the people that are serving, you know. >> Um I thought about people I know who are fighting now in Israel. Um not just in Gaza, but people, you know, people I've met. I went skiing with wounded Israeli um guys in France last year and met some incredible people who um there's just so many people out there. But my uh my rabbi and I don't know if you've had a Labovich Kabad guy on but he's a rock star in that world. >> Um >> what's his name? >> Label Shapiro. >> Amazing. I mean I don't know if you've heard about what we're doing down in Kabato the Jersey Shore, but it's incredible. And >> tell us I I call it I lived in Jerusalem for a year at Hebrew University and I call Long Branch Jerusalem on the Jersey Shore. it. We have built like uh when I take the 15 or 20 minute drive from Fair Haven to Long Branch, it's better than a flight to to Israel to go to Jerusalem for Shabbat. It's it's an amazing place and he's built an incredible community. Um and he's really brought so many aspects of being uh Torah observant to a place in New Jersey where I never thought it never even thought it possible. and he's made it so accessible and so he and his wife obviously Khani and and we have three rabbis now and their wives. Um it's an incredible community, but label would be probably my top choice to >> Okay, I appreciate we're going to ask you I'm not going to ask you to call them now because it's a Sunday for those of you that don't know. We came in on Sunday for this. We had to you know you fly so you don't know one day to the next when you're not here. >> Call I might have to fly tomorrow, >> right? And uh that's why we had to pick today. So thank you for you, your daughter, your whole family for allowing this. I know it was a family decision. So, we really appreciate it and uh we appreciate all our listeners, our subscribers, our comments and of course, thank you to the Prime Source production team. If you're looking for savings in the healthcare space, contact one of us and we will help you run your building more efficiently. That's what we do for a living. Um, again, I appreciate everyone being involved. Thank you so much for being here. And that's a wrap. >> That's Wow, >> that was awesome.