The Jewish Story: War, What is it Good For?

Sun Tzu says victorious warriors win first and then go to war while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win well I'm definitely looking to win but I first got to figure what victory looks like because I'm Rob Mike Feuer and this is the Jewish story war what is it good for I've been conducting a bit of a sociological experiment this week and I want to make you a partner in my exploration mostly it was a personal response to what I perceived to be yet another futile round of back-and-forth with Gaza I've got to tell you that one of the greatest crises of faith I've ever had was back I'm under in the first round of Gaza in 2006 who can really remember but it was at a certain point when I realized that the morality of war to some degree depends on one's willingness to win and that's part of the question I want to ask is which how do we actually conduct a war meant to win but my experiment was a little bit more simple it was going around in asking people war what is it good for and I'm willing to bet that most of you listening responded in the exact same way that the vast majority of people I asked did which is absolutely nothing maybe a little Oh throw it in there for emphasis but joking aside I want to know if this is true I want to know if a sentiment expressed in an anti-war song which is really reflective of a very particular stage of development in American culture Western culture as a whole a development which is a response in many ways to the postmodern collapse of all the grand narratives that had motivated governments and armies up to that point the narratives of patriotism the narratives of Western progressivism all kinds of narratives which had collapsed in the face of a very ugly war and a lack of government trust are they relevant to answering that question here in our country and I think it's quite important you know I was rejected in my efforts here to enlist I was too old perhaps one of the most difficult moments my life both cuz it had been in Zionist dream of mine from a young age and because it was the first time anyone ever told me I was too old do something but because of that I've never had to look battle in the face and I want to leave that as a caveat nevertheless I have been here for 18 years and in those 18 years I've seen the Oslo war some people call it the Second Intifada I've seen the second go for the second lemon war Osler one two three depending on how you count I've sat in bomb shelters with my children I've left buildings that were bombed and unfortunately I have known those who've been killed and that's not all that's only 18 years if you've been listening to the Jewish story for any amount of time then you know we've been fighting our own version of the Hundred Years War basically since the Battle of Tel high back in 1920 go check out season 2 episodes 28 and 29 to get the backstory there that's a very long time to fight and when I look around I listen to the media when I pay attention to my society I see that there are many who are done with it some of them are the insistent idealist who believe that war is passe and that there is a pursuit of an ideal of peace will come to that by and by but others are just simply finished I remember in 2005 shortly before he became prime minister a WA no man declared from the podium at the Israel Policy Forum we are tired of fighting we're tired of being courageous were tired of winning we are tired of defeating our enemies it's a bit of a strange thing to say why would you be tired defeating your enemies what's the other option that he's offering now on one hand listen I get it if war is not an effective tool to achieve our national aims then I'm more than happy to try something else but I'm not interested in national suicide and it's the path of least resistance and every decision maker knows that exhaustion is a poor excuse for analysis and frankly if what you're saying is that there's a path of peace which we could pursue instead of war then that's going to demand in many ways even more energy and the reality is as we'll touch maybe later or mat himself saw that he was wrong in the Second Lebanon War Israel has endless wells of vitality when properly tapped and my question really when I say what is work good for is whether is an effective tool for drawing on those energies because that's all it is war is a tool and therefore like any other the efficacy or danger of that tool lies in the hand that holds it it's a little bit silly to ask what is war good for it's like asking what a knife is good for the knife is only as good as the hand that holds it and not even as good as just as the hand really it's about the will that guides it so that's really my question what will is guiding this hundred year war at this point and I feel like if I can put a finger on that maybe then I can answer the question of what war is good for in our day if anything at all so if we're gonna address the question of what war is good for in our day we need a little bit of background don't be nervous I'm not gonna try and recapitulate the entire 100-year war frankly we need to go further back I mean it's not for nothing that every biblical leader of significance with both a military and spiritual leader there's a message in there and on some level it would be quite easy for me to tell you a crusading story a story in which the victory of the tourists message in the world is in overcoming idolatry he's tightly bound up with the victory of armies are over are idolatrous enemies and there's truth in that it's a story that was told in the Bible and could be told today on that forget once I was sitting in shear in class and one of my fellow students expressed skepticism to our teacher about the relationship between our divine mission as I'm Israel and the military aspect of the Zionist project it came in the form of a question he said do you really think that Redemption will come at the hands of f-16s and tanks and all our teacher said was have you ever read the Bible because on some level it's a biblical truth in order to survive and thrive and achieve the ideals of the tour in the world you're going to have to fight there is evil in the world it's an important thing to continue asserting even in the face of the postmodern breakdown and the skepticism I wonder how you were rolling your eyes when I say it but no one knows better than the Jews what happens to your spiritual ideals when you lose your place in the world it's not an easy thing to do at the same time no one knows better than we the risk you face to your spiritual ideals when you win I mean after all the Torah warned us beware once you get into the land and have the good life bless your heart grow haughty and you'll forget the Lord your God and you say to yourselves Costa Botes my idea Sally at that file is a it was my own power and the might of my own hand that won this well for me in the mind of the Torah the sword in the hand that wielded must derive their will from God the rest of the puzzle is a heart that the Seminole Kaka remember the Lord your God because he's the one who gave you strength do all these things in the world so there's an essential tension there in the Bible on one hand you got a fight just to make it in the world and the Torah certainly conceived of Ami's Rus carving out our space in the world through conquest on the other hand that conquest itself can put you into the trap of believing that it was your hands your will which is driving the story and we could follow the struggle and failure to internalize that essential danger from the conquest of the land by Joshua all the way through the Babylonian exile but like I said I'm not gonna recapitulate all of Jewish history nevertheless seeing as Connick is coming up it is worth going back and listening to season 1 episode 6 if you want to see how the descent of the Second Temple period really beginning with the kingdom founded by the Maccabees after their awesome victory was largely due to their failure to heed the warning that the strength of one's own hand in many ways even though it's necessary for surviving in the world is the great trap but scrolling forward once our current exile began you can see the sages begin to take a fundamentally different stance on war than the one found in the Bible a mighty man is no longer a deep pool of de'vide who swings his spear over 300 dead and knows exactly what war is good for defeating your enemies now is who Gabor who's the mighty man in the mind of the sages a cool it's grow one who conquers their own passions the sages understood that the direction of one's will inward almost like that quote from Sun Tzu at the beginning that victory before the battle is actually where the might of the warrior lies and it doesn't take so much imagination or psychological analysis to figure out why over the course of a couple thousand years of statelessness and lack of any military per se that the model of spiritual leadership cultivated by the sages would be largely uncoupled from that of the military and political but you don't want our holy rabbis were never simple and I wouldn't want to try to paint them as ideological pacifists it just wouldn't be true what I think a look at the text with you right now maybe I'll post it attached with the show we'll see and I think it provides us with a little framework of asking the question of what war is good for it starts with a Mishnah in Shabbat you're looking in the gemara it's on 63 a mission is speaking about what one can carry outside of their house on Shabbat I want to get into the details of why one can or cannot just go with me there are things you can carry which are essentially clothing and jewelry I mean because you're wearing them you're not carrying them and there are things you can't carry because they're a tool so Misha says a man can't go out on Shabbat with a sword a bow a shield or a spear and he goes out then he's liable to bring a sin offering that means that a sword a bow a shield that weapons of war are not part of a person's clothing but then Rabbi Eliezer says no these weapons are ornaments interesting and the rabbi's say back them there's nothing ornamental about them they're reprehensible can I in and they say why because it's written and they shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks nation shall not raise up sword against nation neither shall they learn war anymore that great quote from Isaiah quote by the way which is of course engraved on the entrance to the United Nations an idea that God will and will come to before we're done so here's the mission of this laid out an argument our tools of war an ornament for a man so when the Gemara begins to discuss it they say to rabbi eliezer well if in your opinion these are ornaments then why are they going to be gone in the messianic era one answer he gives is that they won't be needed anymore that a sword tools of war are an ornament for human being so long as the world is in its imperfect state because it says that nation won't raise a sword against nation anymore and Isaiah and Rabbi Eliezer is telling you so long as war exists in the world then I'm Israel needs to be ready to fight it and it's a legitimate thing to leave your house on Shabbat with your m16 another answer the gomorrah says well since their ornaments for him why will they be living in the messianic era he says to them no even in the messianic era they won't be eliminated meaning what does it mean nation will not raise sword against nation it means that I'm Israel will keep the peace there's a deep tension we could go further into this Gomorrah which discusses actually the competing visions of the Messianic era which exist within the minds of our sages one is a world in which we've transcended war another is a world in which I'm Israel has become so powerful that we managed to keep the peace though Tavo hired Sarah right there will no longer be a sword that even passes through your land this is a complex question what role do we strive for as a people are we looking to be left in peace in order to sort of pursue our internal mission or are we looking to establish ourselves as a kingdom that is able to project power so far through the world that nation won't lift up sword against nation anymore that's a big question but no matter which side you take on when you look at this Kumar you can see that it was largely a theoretical question I mean it's being discussed at a point in which Israel has no power to project itself throughout the world and frankly we know there were very few rabbinic scholars who were also warriors miss Mohan ugh Eid was a notable exception if you remember back in season one but even he marched at the head of a Muslim army not a Jewish one but the question I'm asking is decidedly non-fee arete achill because we're we are at the end of a hundred year mark of our 100 year war and what is that war good for and and can the wisdom of our sages crafted and forged in a time of powerlessness really be our guide now personally I think when it comes to our relationship with power and then specifically with war as a tool for projecting it I mr. Ellis suffering from a severe case of cultural whiplash frankly on top of the trauma of the last 2,000 years how are we meant to deal with the transition from being fuel in the ovens of Europe to being regional military power all within the space of one generation and when we look back at that what story do we tell about what got us out of that and how can that story be in a guide to the hand which is presently holding the sword don't forget we touched a bit on this problem in the last two episodes how the need of the Zionists to create the new Jew in many ways led to their need to disparage the survivors of the greatest tragedy that Ashkenazi Jewry may be world repr haps humanity had ever seen this is a classic expression of what many see to be the original sin of Zionism Cohiba ultimi idea Sally at the trial I said it was my power in the strength of my hand that made all this happen now on one hand if the Zionists hadn't made it happen we wouldn't be having this conversation today in my opinion on the other hand there's a trap that lies down this road so if you want to look back at the generation of the return we'll see that there are actually two basic answers they gave to the question what is war good for one was survival and the other was Redemption these are kind of the two phases of Zionism as a whole there's Zionism as problem solving how do we defend the Jews and then there's AI anism as an aspiration for redemption so first things first if we're gonna talk about survivalist Zionism then there's no better document to begin with then Zev Jabotinsky x' essay 1923 the iron wall just give you a couple of excerpts and you'll see what I'm talking about he says I Aeneas settlement must either stop or else proceed regardless of the native population which means that it can proceed and develop only behind an iron wall which the native population cannot breach that is our Arab policy not what we should be but what actually is whether we admit it or not now that may be an uncomfortable truth for some of the people listening out there I know when I speak particularly some of my North American students they find it very difficult that our whole project here is bound up with force from the very beginning Zionism was oriented toward taking this land whether people wanted it or not and so Jeb dingzi actually addresses that he says if anyone objects at this point of view is immoral answer that's not true either Zionism is moral and just meaning either it's moral and just that the Jews have a state or it is immoral and unjust but he notes that's a question we should have settled before we became Zionists actually he says we've settled that question in the affirmative we hold the Zionism is moral and just and since it is moral and just justice must be done no matter whether Joseph or Simon or Ivan or Achmed agree or not there is no other morality that needs to be reflected upon especially in light of Jabotinsky z-- final statement at least the final one I'll quote to you he says as long as the Arabs feel that there is the least hope of getting rid of us they were refused to give up this hope in return for either kind words or for bread and butter because they're not a rabble but a living people and when a living people yields in matters of such vital character it is only when there is no longer any hope of getting rid of us because they can make no breach in the iron wall now it's a perspective that makes comfortable people uncomfortable and it's critical to remember that Jabotinsky was far from living in a world where the Jews were comfortable whatever his life experience personally was or not at the beginning of the twentieth century was the beginning of the end of European Jewry I don't want to get into analysis right now of whether he was right or even how such statements look through the eyes of postmodern 21st century Jewry I have to think that for his day definitely was exceptionally clear I think err in that there's a critical point we all need to reflect upon here how much of the prolonged nature of this hundred year war is actually due to our ambivalence about being here and our unwillingness to fight it with victory as the goal as opposed to simply survival now that aside but I want to put my finger on a present-day problem and that's the necessary but insufficient role that survival can play in guiding the hand that holds the sword I think only a fool would question the fact that war is a tool for survival but what I want to speak about in light of the 21st century reality in the Land of Israel is what happens when survival is no longer the goal but war is still the tool because really honestly when I look around I can ask the question are we actually still struggling for survival where any of the I lost count number of wars I witness in the last eighteen years really in response to an existential threat life is really good right now in the State of Israel back it's fantastic I'm looking out my window I see the rebuilt Jerusalem I've got a wonderful apartment a healthy family more resources than the vast majority of the world can even dream of and in some ways that's part of the problem you know I have actually a particularly strong relationship to the Second Lebanon War it was because at the time that it broke out I was working as a program director for a summer backpacking trip that took place along the northern Israel trail and I had two groups in the field right off the Lebanese border when the Rockets first starting come down it's a little bit hard I think to imagine but there I am getting updates from what's called hello.mat solve the situation room it's a joint effort between the Ministry of Education and the security forces so I'm getting updates moving a group here move your group there at one point actually put them on the eastern shore of the Galilee and they were in tents while they were watching Rockets fall on the western shore onto area on Tiberias I'm also getting midnight phone calls from frightened and angry parents wondering what is going on why haven't you gotten those kids out of there but on top of all that it was an intense experience of national consensus it was so strong in fact that people were calling it the spirit of the 48 now what's the spirit of 48 mean it means late Brera we have no choice our backs are to the wall and I'm telling you on some level our country is always seeking that sense that we have no choice in order to muster the will that it takes to drive the hand that holds the sword and I'll never forget right before the ground troops cross the northern border into Lebanon Prime Minister a hood ol man addressed them it was a fantastic speech I was listening to him on the car radios I had left home for Jerusalem was just just here still in Mali Adumim and he had me right up until the end right into the point when he declared and what we're fighting for is the right to live a normal life no I actually had to pull over I was so upset that's the will that guy's the hand that holds the sword we're fighting war to maintain a normal life well first of all let's just face it there's nothing normal about being a Jew second of all I happen to have higher aspirations than a comfortable socio-economic category third of all it's a terrible justification for the death and destruction that ensued in that war I mean if we want a normal life if that's the will that guides the hand that holds the sword then why not choose Berlin or Brooklyn over tel-aviv I mean when the battle for survival is actually a battle for normalcy it loses quite a bit of its a moral force least in my eyes and I'm telling you in the eyes of the world which is why it's so important particularly in the secular parts of our country to have a sense of no choice that it's actually about survival and really oh man speech shouldn't have come as a surprise remember I quoted him early declaring that Israel was tired of fighting if it was only good for survival then you're gonna know exactly why those who are no longer looking to survive but rather to live a normal life might actually feel that what's more good for absolutely nothing or at least if one's gonna fight a war it should be kept to the bare minimum you should preserve the good life not change the situation as a whole you should mow the lawn in that horrible euphemism we use for how we deal with Gaza one two three rather than ever have to conceive of what victory might look like when survival becomes the pursuit of the good life there are very profound moral questions which come up and you're on eclis the fact that life is so good here in Israel is in my eyes one of the major challenges we face the people today for so many generations my holy Ashkenazi ancestors lamented see Susanna hid right it's hard to be a Jew on one hand that was the lament on the other hand it was a badge of pride but at the very least that need to survival a hardness of life providing them with a clear will a will which found its expression in Jabotinsky iron wall right in fact it held up that wall for quite some time we've seen even in this season the battles of 48 and 56 and 67 is on the way but we're a long way from 67 and in many ways our problem today is not that our backs against the wall and that it's hard to be a Jew our problem is it's not hard enough to be a Jew and therefore many people for whom survival provided the answer to what war is good for are beginning to wonder what are we fighting for after all so what about Redemption you know our holy master and teacher ruff cook has a beautiful section in the book world lights called alte milk Amma the lights of war and there he says when there is a great war in the world the power of the Messiah awakens the time of pruning has arrived the pruning of the tyrants the wicked are being eliminated from the world and it fills with a fragrant scent it's what we call in Hebrew steerer the Mahon Binion we're going to destroy in order to build and every good revolutionary knows that sometimes a situation is so broken it can't be fixed only array now it's noteworthy the rough cook wrote those words in reference to World War one as he says the current world war brings with it a great and awesome expectation combined as it is with all the events at the time in the settlement of the Land of Israel which is an express sign of the end why I say it's noteworthy because rough cooks sense of imminent redemption that the destruction of World War one was actually paving the way for the rebirth of the Jewish people didn't map so well onto the reaction of the rest of the world now we could say that he was as yet unaware of the horrors of that conflict the conflict that turned many romantic believers in the cleansing power war into devoted pacifists but however you slice it World War one was the beginning of our hundred year war and in many ways that sentiment that war paves the way for our national mission is what caused us to part ways with the arc of Western culture Western culture even though they did muster themselves for survivals sake to fight the Nazis after that they were largely done the skepticism around war settled first in Europe and then emerged in our very song war what is it good for in America but note that Israel was about to face the 1967 war when that song came out nobody had any questions about our need for survival and the importance of war is a tool then but I want to just put a finger on this idea that the vision of Israel's divine mission as the will that guides the hand that holds the sword actually can't be ignored not in our history and not in our present day I remember when I was sitting on the edge of Gush Katif before our friends were uprooted from their homes we snuck our way right to the edge there and ZEB if you're listening it was an important moment and I remember hearing a conversation between two older national religious men debating about whether all the soldiers that year the largest group of national religious graduates had made it into the officers corps and the debate was whether they should participate in this disengagement or not on one hand one person was saying it's a sin you can't uproot Jews million on the other hand the other one was saying but this is what we've worked for to raise these boys up into positions of leadership so we can begin to change the country and the truth of the matter is won't get into how that debate ended when you look at the Israel Defense Force today it's beyond question that the most motivated element certainly of the officers Corps comes from the religious Zionist world I had the great privilege to see these men all the time in my community and there's much to be proud of they've been given the ideal of the soldier scholar and many strive and succeed to live up to it but that very success makes a good portion of our country quite nervous now we could all agree on the goal of survival that's kind of a basic biological instinct but the vision of the State of Israel as a vehicle for redemption has never been consensus forget the fact that even if we agree that Redemption is the goal we don't know what it looks like I just mean for many if not most of our country redemptions not in the cards survival and perhaps now the good life I'll tell you a little story that really highlights it back in July of 2014 just as Israeli ground troops were preparing to enter the Gaza Strip for operation sue Kate on protective edge the gavazzi brigade commander colonel affair winter sent the following dispatch to his battalion and company commanders history has chosen us to spearhead the fighting against the terrorists of gaza enemy which abuses blasphemes and curses the god of israel's forces we have planned and prepared for this moment and we take the mission upon ourselves out of commitment complete humility and because we are prepared to endanger ourselves and lay down our lives in order to protect our families our people and our homeland and then of the auntie calls upon the God of Israel to make our path successful as we go and stand to fight for the sake of your people Israel against a foe which curses your name personally I find it quite moving and the idea of fighting for God's name to me is a much better motivation than simply survival I mean after all the Rockets out of Gaza are not an existential threat that's why our government is willing to leave hundreds of thousands of Israeli citizens to put up with them for almost 15 years nevertheless there is a question of how to engage such an enemy and Colonel Wynter was giving an answer and answered by the way which was not so well received just to give you one choice quote from a prominent Israeli religious activists meaning activists for religious freedom I would expect IDF commanders to remember that the IDF is the army of the people and not a religious militia now I might be tempted to say tough luck I mean after all the vision of Israel conquering our enemy a vision of victory rather than survival vision in which what war is good for is enacting the will of God in the world is a source of serious motivation for a very active portion of our society the problem is that if you read the news then you'll know that the religious divide is growing deeper within our country and I'm not one to speak of civil war but I would say that the Army is one of the only if not the only institution that still unites our country and therefore it would behoove us to choose our motivations quite carefully and so on one hand if we ask war what is it good for survival is obvious necessary but insufficient since it's actually really good to be a Jew right now you know this notion of redemption is very tempting but when you look back on the history of armies well when we don't agree when there's no consensus and what the vision of redemption is things tend to go poorly pretty quickly so where does this all leave us today of what is war good for frankly I'm not really sure as you've probably begun to sense I didn't set out on this journey with such a clear map but I can say this I would never answer absolutely nothing first of all so long as evil exists and there are those in the world who seek to destroy us and sadly there still are war is it necessary but I worry that without some sort of vision that guys the hand that holds the sword without some sort of sense of where we're headed as a society other than toward the easy life war can quickly become costly vote Samia idea can become all about my strength and the might of my hand or can become all about that postmodern disparagement of any purpose for war because after all everybody's only out for their own power anyway and by the way we didn't even get into the challenge that the arms industry poses in this whole equation and the whole military-industrial complex that Eisenhower himself warned us about so that's one side then there's that spiritual vision of redemption which might be bound up with the need to vanquish our enemies at the same time I want to offer you this I think that there is an action we can all take war might be a necessary evil but it's never an end unto itself what is it good for it's good for survival it's also good for defeating enemies but I'll end with this last quote from Rob cook he says in that same section on the lights of war if it were not for the sin of the golden calf the nations settled in land would have made peace with Israel and acknowledge them because the name of God which is called upon Israel would have awakened within them the awesome fear of this loftiness meaning if you tap into the true vitality of M Israel if we're able to channel our vision then we'll realize that war is only one tool that we have in the basket and don't forget for a man whose only tools a Hammer Every Problem looks like a nail our other tool is the spiritual power which is our true inheritance he goes on to say there would have been no call for any method of war and Israel's influence would have flowed outwards through the paths of peace as it will be in the days of the Messiah let it be soon let it be now I'm really curious by the way to hear your responses on this send me an email about my query gmail.com you can hit me up on Facebook and while you're at it I would love it if you want to put your money where your ears are I'm thinking about whether to do season for right now I want your feedback on that and the biggest feedback you can give me is by becoming a patron you can go right now to my website Jewish story dot Co and there's a little button in the upper right hand corner there that says be a patron you can click on there for a little bit of perb podcast support now help me very clearly that you want this story to keep going want to thank the Land of Israel Network that's the Land of Israel dot-com for creating platforms allows me to reach so many fantastic people I want to thank the 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