The Jewish Story: Interlude: Jerusalem Day 5779

the view of Jerusalem is the history of the world says Benjamin Disraeli it's more it's the history of Earth and heaven and Here I am sitting at the centre of heaven or feeling a whole lot of gratitude I'm Rob Mike Feuer and this is the Jewish story interlude Jerusalem day 57 79 so every once in a while you gotta get out of that house I know that you're probably used to hearing me in the safety of my own living room and you might be a little bit alarmed at the strange sounds you hear in the background in multiple languages birds chirping and even the light rail because I'm out of the box I'm out on the streets of Jerusalem if you're gonna get out of the box my experience is is it's best to do it when you're not alone and who better to do that with then you heard about going hi Tina good to be with you thank you so much for joining me here on a park bench in front of City Hall perhaps one of the contenders for capital of the world and we can talk about that later it but um so we're here it's almost Jerusalem day and I asked you to meet me because I've got a bunch of stuff I want to talk about I'm gonna dive right in you ready sure because when I look around me on one hand what I see is a beautiful city it's a modern city I see security guards I see the light rail I see trees and birds and grass and you know cafes selling coffee for five shekels apiece which is impressive and of itself but you know what else I see what do you see I see the dreams in prayers and hopes of 2000 years it's something that is very present my consciousness frankly when I walk around Israel as a whole but but you shall I mean perhaps more than any other place that this is a place for which the people that we belong to has longed for a couple of thousand years and I'm curious first of all do you feel it do you sense that in there yeah every day the truth is that is Jerusalem what you're describing is Jerusalem that is it's the it's the realization but it's a realization of 2,000 years of longings in progress it's a realization in progress it's not necessarily like realization full stop no down and we're gonna come to the the progress progressive element of this very day at the end I want to save it for the end but but where do you see it in particular because when I look around part of this is just in the architecture right you know when you walk up the city hall the part that faces the old city walls of Jerusalem there's like a little a faceoff going on there plus of course City Hall itself on that side is riddled with bullet holes from the failed attempts to take the old city in 48 and all the sniping so I feel like I see it in the architecture where do you find this sort of being asked I think we can see it everywhere we can see it in the architecture certainly we can see it in the people we can see it but Ruth is I think all of those things are really just expressions of an energy that's much more than the sum of its parts I think there's an energy Jerusalem has that we're sensing in everything whether it's the architecture whether it's the whether it's the cafes whether it's the proximity to the old city the people I think that we there's an energy that shines through all of that this energy of fire that we sent even in quiet even on a quiet morning like this one there is just very very intense energy that Jerusalem has that is undeniable no doubt mean do you think there's any other city in the world that has a psychological syndrome named for it I mean Jerusalem syndrome is a real thing people come here and one can say you know there are selected group meaning that there's a certain imbalance nature that is attracted to Jerusalem but I think it's more than that people come here and some are unable to keep the veil over that energy and it really overwhelms them you get people prophesying in the streets well maybe people speaking in a way in which the rational world is not conscious to deceive them in truth and what's coming out is a big question I mean that's different I think that's just a unique energy of Jerusalem but I think that many cities all over the world have this energy in our country I think have wrong heparin is a very distinct energy I think it's Fahd has a very distinct energy but I think also Paris is a very distinct energy New York has a very distinct energy no question San Francisco has a very distinct energy yes and I wasn't joking when I said that this is a contender for capital of the world right and I think there are certain kinds of souls that are attracted to certain types of cities I think that there are just people who who just are drawn like magnetized to cities like Jerusalem you might be one of those people I might be one of those people and I think Jerusalem obviously becomes somewhat of a mixed salad of those type of individuals who are just like drawn magnetized to Zion oh it is a mix out it's also a real city I mean one of the things I find fascinating up you saw it I was gonna bring it out but why not there was an image floating around on the internet this week of uh there was a protest of ultra-orthodox Jews against the desecration of Shabbat that was bound up with the Eurovision event did you you know I'm going with this and and the police were unable or unwilling to break up this protest and for a young woman whipped off their shirts and exposed themselves not entirely naked to this sort of group of ultra-orthodox men who of course their culture and religion and religious practices forbid them from seeing sociology it's also the values of thousands of years okay like I don't want to get into the full discussion we could have that again right now I wanted to bring it up I'm my point is I want the humor works either Skinner's I have no problem with that but what the image meaning both those people are Jerusalemites but like there that's all happening here there is the ancient tradition and the desire for purity and and cleaving to God there is like a very sort of lightning it's more belittling it just been made okay I mean I think that there's problems of self respecting automatically yes no I think both both sides of that equation are unfortunately distorted or distilled features of our identity yes they are attenuated I would even relevant okay so we're not going there I'm cutting in and I think there's no no but but I think that really is that there is a real cultural conflict within Israeli society I can definitely understand both perspectives I think there's truth in both that's part of the problem that's part of my problem well that's why it's reason that's why it's a real conflict right it's a real conflict both of something very true to say both have have a real value that they're championing but I think that but I think there's certain like guidelines I wish both sides can kind of maintain because I really do like it it's painful for me well really it's painful for me having Eurovision in our country is painful for me oh yeah not just a desecration of Shabbat no that's uh Bob I don't if you listen to each I Fletcher and I had a conversation last week on it as well yeah it's a problem it's a problem but I want to focus on it's not the positive at least on you assha Lyman and I groove through that one of the challenges we have is that what's the container that can really hold all those disparate parts that have become so attenuated both in our exile in our tendency to go to the extreme in a way which is productive and it might just be the Jerusalem as that but let's talk a little history because in the Jewish story right now people who are following season three in a linear fashion we're in the early 1950s yeah we passed through the wake of the war of independence we're not yet in the solid ground of the SE post 67 existence here where there's a there's a little bit of a retreat of the existential fear really in the hearts of the insecurities intrusive very interesting role in that I've heard you say before that you feel in many ways that the failure or or the decision depending on how you look at it not to conquer the old city in 1948 on the behalf of the provisional government right mind you that the the left-hander your goon the two other elements of the underground army maintained their presence in the old city and indeed tried to hold out but the decision of the provisional government not to to either hold on to or perhaps reconquer the old city in 48 constitutes a loss mean that perhaps because the war of independence in some way well we did lose the war of independence I mean no we won the war of independence against England yes we we won a probably what we could call a 10-year urban guerrilla war against England sure that less he fought the local Metro route Israel the fighters for the freedom of Israel the stern gang you actually out of that altogether not altogether but the they were against the revolution you have to remember for the first few years of this conflict the Etzel their guns velu me was not only not fighting the British they were aiding the British in their World War two efforts and aiding the British against Luffy yeah so you know the revisionist well called the revision of Zionism stood with the British and less he was not only revolting against British rule in our country less he was also revolting against what we can call zionist ideology including revision of Zionist ideology mm-hmm Beck scientist ideology which views the Jewish people as an object of the problem the solution to that problem could be a see nation-state or what have you right whereas left he looked at the Jewish people as a subject with desires that's an excellent formulation right maybe you've thought about that for yeah sure but really they were they saw themselves as real active participants in the same story that that you dhammika be was a character in and rabbi akiva and the Villa Mella and you know in your show up in noon and all of our heroes throughout history and they saw themselves as real characters in that same stone next chapter of this ongoing story I want to make sure I got it straight that they're not we're not an object with a problem but a subject but there's a subject with desires no job we have a mission in history and so the they won this 10-year urban well they did well part of it and I think this is where a lot of their political sophistication remember most of the leaders of Alessi came from Marxist backgrounds right and by the late 1940s it we're kind of back there I think we can look at left he is almost like a proto Maoist type of organization but they definitely used historical materialism they used a very critical scientific analysis in order to not only defeat the British Empire but also to drag the Jewish community of Palestine in a war behind them yes so by 1944 you have to remember also but by 1944 Menachem Bagan who had who had escaped Poland he becomes the leader of the Etzel he becomes a leader of the Ergun salumi here in Palestine and he wasn't exactly a revisionist even though Bagan likes to like to present himself as the heir to Zev Jabotinsky and as a leader of revision is ayan ISM the truth is Bagan with something in between revision assign ISM and left he pushed against Jabotinsky while he was still alive right but still saw himself until his death as a student and a follower of Jabotinsky whereas less he even from the late 1930s made a clean break your stern Aramis turn and his followers had they were look a lot of these people were people who had actually come from Marxist backgrounds into labour Zionism rejected labor Zionism because it was really too soft in terms of where the paper yeah their revolutionary needs of the Jewish people as being at that time they saw Zeb Jabotinsky and revision of Zionism having a much more masculine Jewish nationalism so they did go there for a moment but it became very clear to them very quickly that this was not really their home this was a shallow vision ultimate exactly it was a shallow vision Springs background to Jews however they did see it as a great place to recruit from yeah so the the ear Stern and his followers were able to recruit from the edsel in in the Land of Israel and from the Vitara movement and the revisionist movement in the Diaspora but really when we comes to 1948 when it comes to Jerusalem by that time Larry had already dragged the Etzel behind them from the time begin to command a 19-4 and by 1944 the Etzel was also fighting the British even for a moment the Hagana was by 1948 it became very clear that the Jewish leaders who had collaborated with British imperialism were going to take power now that the British were leaving yes and they had made a strategic decision probably in collaboration with the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan that they would not fight to liberate the Old City of Jerusalem laughs course rejected that and left he was determined and the Etzel as well to liberate Jerusalem but you know Jerusalem can't be liberated by lucky it can't be liberated by the edsel Jerusalem represents the unity of Israel throughout history we lost Jerusalem in the great revolt against Rome because we weren't united even though within before the Romans ever broke the walls right and even though we had so many different factions committed to fighting for our freedom and fighting to free our land from the Romans because we weren't a unified People's Army we lost her ooh Saleem you know the mahalo is very clear about this and that's a place railed in his book on Tisha above that we cannot hold on to Jerusalem if we are unified and I think that's what happened in 1948 lessee no matter how ahead of the camp they are are not able to liberate Jerusalem without the rest of the nation of Israel behind them it was only 1967 that Salah People's Army the army of the Jewish people was able to liberate Jerusalem so that's I mean that's a story that lies ahead for those of you who are keeping track of the Jewish story and it's linear ascent so what I would take from this then is that the situation in 1948 is a stage it's a it's a it's a turning point we lost the war against the Arabs we lost the well again aims round of that war well I'll say this we won against the British Wiimote we made the British leave we force the British to leave Africa their documents they left Palestine because of Jewish terrorism the Palestinians lost worse than us oh yeah in terms of the knock above the Palestinians definitely worst loss much worse than we did but the big winners of that war who defeated us were really Egypt and Transjordan because they increased their area significantly and they were armed trained and led by British officers for sure know for sure and we're creeping slowly in my story toward the the tripartite aggression you know the 1956 Suez Wars I want to leave that but story on the horizon need to be able to appreciate is because of our tragic history we confuse survival with victory sometimes Oh survive the world no question we survived and any thought that was victory we had a state when the smoke cleared even though it was less than the territory we conquered from the British so but I want to I want to use that as a jumping off point because it's true that survival is an end unto itself is in my eyes a dead end no less first of all it does deserve a significant dose of gratitude especially in 1948 this is my major topic um as I've been introducing my readers to some of the more difficult moral challenges that Israel faced in defending its borders particularly from the phenomena of infiltration which had a conversation or not conversation told the story of Gibeah if you're familiar with the sort of massive retaliatory raid that happened and in 1953 and I put out there for people to think about them reminding folks I asked you for your feedback that though today the value of survival may not present itself as I'm particularly pressing although it might still be in 90 fifty-three less than 10 years after Auschwitz and and certainly only five years after the war 48 it was a legitimate and pressing need but I want to take a pullback again on the lens so a little bit of the sense of why we didn't take 48 deserves to reflect I want to emphasize that lack of unity because as we were speaking about before in the sort of a fragmented nature of our present society that begs the question of how we hold on to it but I also want to just challenging the nature of our national cultures is mclogan oh yes part of the culture of Israel is to disagree with each other well you've heard this to Jews three opinions that's a real part of our identity so let's go there right now I was gonna wait for this point later but I wanted to point out that you know I am a teacher in a um sort of a liberal and somewhat even progressive Jewish environment in the partes Institute wonderful place that I get to teach and Jerusalem day in the eyes of many of my students is not just Jerusalem day it's the beginning of the occupation right because I think one of the reasons that young Mucha lime has been so difficult in finding its way in even in the Heaviside in the Israeli society and certainly outside of Israel is that the sense of euphoric victory and and sort of divine intervention which was a widespread sense in the entire at the time and and even for many people well after means a whole conversation to be out of the impact of 67 on American Jewry as dissipated and what's replaced it is a sense of almost acts evolved like of a disappointment and frustration around what it is to be a people I'm sort of sitting with our foot on the back of another people rightly wrongly I don't want to do an analysis of let me finish my point sure what what is interesting to me in light of the sort of introduction you gave about 1948 is that if we accept the premise that Jerusalem cannot be conquered other than by United people then what does it mean today that the day of the capture or the you know the six days of the recapture at which the Jerusalem sits the heart of has become once again a source of tremendous division in army sir what does this tell us about the future of this day which I personally celebrate wholeheartedly and we'll speak about that at the end of my eyes the importance of celebrating but nevertheless if Jerusalem is held or captured through unity what allows us to hold it because you pointed out that is in our natures of people and I agree with you that my cloak it but the difference between my look at l'chaim sham I'm of a sacred disagreement based on the belief that the truth is larger than you or I and therefore that's necessary that we disagree in order that we come closer to that large truth and Michael che knowledge seems like a really divisive I was gonna be the leader right who who gets to own the argument right that Greek model where if I'm right perforce you must be wrong yes supposed to the Jewish model which is he is right and he is also right mm-hmm right so what do you think that says about the situation in which we sit today that this that the omission line is seen also it's kind of like Columbus that used to be a happy day for the origins of what European America and then someone woke up one day and said well it also happens to be the day when the native peoples of this continent began their end I think the comparison makes me a little bit uncomfortable but I want to just get back this reason it's something you said maybe in terms of some of the students at part days or others who look at young yerushalayim as the beginning of the occupation I think that any Jew who looks at younger shall I'm the day we liberated Jerusalem in 1967 as the beginning of Israel's occupation over the Palestinians or any injustice is over Palestinians have probably not spoken to Palestinians because in my experience most Palestinian grievances have much more to do with 1948 and Israeli policies during that war and a lot of Israeli policies following that war 1967 was maybe an opportunity to correct I mean I also agree that we haven't yet figured out you know we came back to the cradle of Jewish civilization in 1967 and we might not have been mature enough as a society to do so I also point that I think it's really interesting how sometimes history forces things on us you know between 1948 to 1960 then to my sorrow embarrassment even the Jewish people as a collective Israeli society was not interested in Jerusalem or Jericho or Battelle or have Ron or SRAM didn't feel the lack they weren't feeling because I think we were just so happy with survival so happy to have a nation-state a bomb shelter after all of the persecutions looking a lot of wounds right and and it wasn't you know and I think that we we were insensitive there were people there were individuals a lot of the veterans of Alessi especially people like dr. you sir nailed dad roughed you the coin quote there were people who were pushing who did speak about what's next about where we need to go neck out the pressing vision most of Israeli society wasn't there until a woman named Anne Iommi scheme' yeah amazing climbed Mount Scopus and stood exactly where Robbie Akiva stood were hit with his friends when they looked down at the Temple Mount and saw foxes coming out of the Holy of Holies and she wrote a song she wrote a sad song that actually elevated the spiritual level of the nation of Israel it's a phenomenon no usual I'm shel zahav she wrote the you know after this piece of jewelry that rebbi akiva bought his wife before going out to war to free Jerusalem from the Romans and she writes his song and it's a sad song that really speaks to the to the soul of the Jewish people about the loss of Jerusalem not having Jerusalem and I think that song inspired the nation to care and once we cared history open the door now in that we experienced biblical style miracles during that war in six days we liberated so much of our homeland criticized a nation and I think we also smashed the idol of Christianity which is something maybe we can talk about maybe another time with you I think you are correct there's a major major awesome cool right yeah there's a rationed consumption very on a very deep subliminal level I think Western civilization's obsession with a two-state solution here is really all about snatching the historical significance away from the six-day war so pause on that because many of our listen won't be aware that that up till 1948 and even for a number of years afters arguably to this very day the Vatican was driving an effort to internationalize Jerusalem Yeah right there was a sense that anything with Jerusalem we could let the Jews have this we can let Matt but Jerusalem belongs to the whole world even though of course for for many years perhaps since the Crusades it hadn't been such an issue right and in in the the temerity of the Jewish people to return to what had only ever been our capital right was was a driven driving force within certain elements in the Christian world to attempt to prevent that and so therefore in 67 when history as you said so nice of them responded to our care the it really broke the back of that religious conception and perhaps has been replaced as you're saying by a by a political conception which once again looks to divide well I think they're I think that Western civilization is really founded on the base of Christianity even though Western civilization has rejected Christianity as a religion is of faith yeah but as I culture in a foundation for history you can't get away from it correct and I think the Jewish people coming back to Jerusalem is deeply deeply offensive and deeply threatening to Western civilization and I think that what essentially happened was in 1948 the way the West related to all of this was the Jewish people you know they deserve a bomb shelter we're gonna give them the bomb shelter you know the ocean mercy right just kind of like in partial a lock when Yakov comes into the Land of Israel and he meets a sob Rashi says though that a sob really felt sorry for your over that moment Yakov comes in to lend limping and a sovereign's with compassion I mean it was temporary compassion and Yakov was aware enough to get away from a cell for four times right before that temporary before the temporary compassion kind of wore off so I think Western civilization number one said they're not really in Eretz Israel they're not really in the biblical Israel and I'm in Bethlehem they're not in Beit el they're not in Jerusalem they're on the beach Catania gonna be in Tel Aviv let them you know five we give them a bomb shelter state and that's the way Christianity and Western civilization kind of dealt with this but then in the Six Day War the world experienced a biblical style miracle according to the Jewish interpretation of Scripture oh yeah and that really smashed the Idol of Christianity in a way that can only be repaired if that war and those miracles is their historical significance so the I wanna but I'll say we came back for us when we came back to these places we weren't mature enough we have the desire suddenly because of Naomi Shemer song maybe but we didn't have the understanding what we're doing here so for the last 52 years we've been ready for a deeper conscious awareness that we haven't had so this is exactly what I want to pick up on because there's two elements in what you said that I think need to be sipping gauge one is the sense that history responds when we begin to care mm-hmm and the other one is is that we we lacked the maturity or or the consciousness to really receive the enormity of what happened and you know you use the phrase you said sometimes history forces things on us I think history always forces things on people's as a whole and I think one of the tensions between leadership and sort of like large-scale culture in history is that the art form of leadership is to read the writing on the wall and so it doesn't it's not just history isn't forced upon leaders a wise leader is able to see the way in which the currents are moving and perhaps even guide their people sort of through them so here's my thought for you is that for sure we haven't absorbed and even after 52 years we haven't absorbed the enormity of Jewish very much victims of that oh very much so and in in my eyes that plays itself out in so the lack of clarity of identity that we have students are victims of the Jewish identity crisis yeah and and so therefore we're on one hand dismissive of them and deeply threatened by them the one thing that we can't do is look them in the eyes and say well it's it's amazing that's how you see it but we need to talk about this because that's a position of enormous and strength that's a position which and and theme that I've been developing all through season 3 which we should probably at one point take a direct charge at is that the one thing that we're not really able to do is contemplate Jewish power right they because especially now with the rhetoric of the progressive world which wants the reduce everything to this binary of victims and perpetrators right and where we as a people are living a heroic story and the difference between a hero and a villain is a hero uses power and the name of good and right but in the eyes of the progressives the hero is just a villain with good PR which is so often what we're being painted as and unfortunately sometimes falling into the behavior of so but anyway I want to say these two elements of the history response to our Karen yet we lack the Kaling lack the vessels to absorb the enormity what do we do in order to transform Yomiuri slime as it day because right now even in Jerusalem even in Israel certainly much less and hoof arts in the in the Diaspora the shaba of mm-hmm the day of mourning for the destruction of the first tackle temple in the Second Temple in so many historical events strikes a much more powerful chord in the hearts of most use then Yom you shall I'm but what is it how do we shift from that posture of mourning toward the posture of gratitude even though recognizing and will end on the note that we're not done temples not standing where it belongs we as a people are far from United and there's much suffering in our own lives and the lives of the Arabs around us that comes from that but nevertheless how do we begin to shift in response to that I have two answers great number one I think you know the most important message I think we can take away the Jewish people can take away from Yamamoto Independence Day the day the British left me declared independence and young your shall I am the day we liberated Jerusalem nineteen years later is the idea that our history is unpause now we are living in a world where you and I can do things in our lives that can put new game on the Hebrew calendar we can add days of kedusha days of holiness to Israel's calendar through our own actions to the things we do in our lives and I think that's a very empowering message when we look at y'all matsumoto when we look at you shall I'm that people did something that actually added days added holidays to our calendar shows us that we can also do that number one number two I think that what's really left for our society to do and what would probably clear up a lot of the confusion and solve many of problems is engaging in this kind of post-colonial conversation we haven't done that you know when we defeated the British we kind of took down their flag and then we put our flag on their system and very common Act by the way in world history right I don't think we're the only ones but now we need to engage it we need to kind of clarify our identity we need to have a national conversation with all of the different tribes of Israel all the different sectors of Israeli society in the broader Jewish world and have a conversation over who we are what we came back to life for what this project is all about where we hope this leads the world we have to we have to kind of like shift I think from like narrow Jewish nationalism which is what Zionism was to a Hebrew universalism I think that in 1967 when we returned to Jerusalem it was the victory of Zionism it was the end of Zionism and since then we've of course been waiting for a new Jewish liberation ideology that we need to encourage our young people to participate in formulating rather than just kind of like train them to be like Zionists and that's I think a lot of what's going on in the Jewish world today oh yes we're we're freaking out because some of our some of our youth are too smart and too passionate to go for this kind of like pre-canned Zionist talking point campus stuff graduated nationalism right where they're looking a bigger and and we need to provide something bigger and I think that's what you know 1967 we came back on the one hand we were like these are the places we've been yearning for for 2,000 years on the other hand the Americans and Europeans don't want us here but on the other hand like we need these mountains to defend ourselves but on the other hand there are too many non-jews here what are we gonna do with them what about our kind of like an ethnos stage and we've and we've been hung up in that back and forth ever since 52 years later here we are there still refugee camps things have gotten actually much worse for the Palestinian anyway sure and and I think now we need to kind of really engage in this post-colonial conversation and encourage our youth to see themselves as the thought leaders of a new Jewish liberation ideology that can pick up where Zionism left off and actually bring our people the rest of the way forward protect Zionism as positive achievements while cleaning up its mess and actually trying to figure out what we're doing here and what we have to share with the world now that back in the stage of history so fantastic I want to respond to both those points and then we'll we'll hit one last piece and then we're gonna have to wrap it up because you know Jerusalem is also a city where we both go to work well I want to let listeners know that if they want to hear more of these ideas they can check out our podcast we've just started a podcast right at where they can find it well vision magazine vision mag org or on soundcloud i think they should just like search vision magazine and also want to be directly email they can find you my name is Judah Jaco hen it's a-you Dahak cohan at gmail.com but also through vision mag things can get to me vision mag org the Britta's own movement we just launched a podcast I don't know if we're doing it right I hope we're doing it right it's all right in the beginning it's always messy yeah okay so it's messy and listen if folks if that was too much information for you absorb most you know how to find me and I can find you who that I highly encourage you not just a tune in but to share right because if the things that we're speaking about here is strike a chord you agree it disagree it doesn't really matter if it strikes a chord versus bond right that's what we're looking for is it looking for a conversation and and so um in that light I hear you laying out a very different type of pose I anism than the one most people are familiar with my experience is that you are correct that the the regurgitation of of sort of like cold nationalism right nationalism is a dish best served hot right and and right now it doesn't really appeal to people and the sort of ability to stir the embers through fear and through slogans is is limited for people of a talent intelligence and some works better on Israelis and diaspora Jews because it's do actually experiencing it's antithetical to the culture they're living um but but the problem is is that if we fail to offer an alternative so then post cyanus and becomes a deconstruction of Zionism right it shouldn't be a retreat from Jewish liberation but we should advance to the next stage of Jewish liberation and I really do believe that at this point in history Jewish liberation and palestinian liberation are intertwined so to me what needs to be done is we need to declare victory and move on meaning to keep fighting the battle of 1948 uh-huh and 67 is a mistake you declare victory and move on to the question of what lies neck now the question of as you call the Hebrew universalism which in my mind really is sort of the emblematic symbol of that is the Temple Mount and this idea that that you know Zionism was about returning to Zionist terms of Jerusalem we could call it even Mariah's amass I've heard you say Fleischer say right that there's there's a visionary element of uniting the world but ma who died which is there there's another piece that I wanted to respond to is that that this power of making history and putting days of holiness of kedusha sanctity into our calendar ourselves um it's worth noting that one of the reasons I believe that we haven't yet absorbed the enormity of the world in which we're living is because it's deeply threatening to normative religion okay meaning a religious person functions oftentimes through the sanctity of routine which has been sort of clarified and codified through ages um and and there's a deeply challenging element in religion through these deeply challenging to change things I think that's just part of what we're facing I want him that's good because it allows you to preserve much of the wisdom that has been clarified and sanctified over the ages other hand it's it can be downright still define like one of the things I find so frustrating is in it's less actually I find then since I came here about 1617 years ago are the arguments that that simmer around whether you should say abraca as you say a blessing when you say Hallel the the Psalms of praises on your mutual I mean oh by the way I felt it out in the morning out at night and frankly um I haven't done it at 19 years we did in the beginning and then it kind of faded in my community V I frankly find it a little bit bizarre that I'm expected with a full heart at least because I'm Ashkenazi to say abraca on Rosh Hodesh when I say Hallel but on the day that I genuinely feel God has touched the planet within our time right I'm not so sure but a part of that is just the nature of religion and I think that there is just some some some breaking so that's it along the way deep question because I don't think we have a religion I think that our this portable version of our national culture that we took exile was rebranded as a religion a couple hundred years ago when we wanted to be Germans and French men with full vigor we've spoken about that a lot along the way in the Jewish story nevertheless functionally for many people that is what it is I'm with you decolonization process I think we stopped thinking of this religion called Judaism and actually kind of relate to ourselves as part of this like rich ancient civilization that's impacted human history so much and it's back on the stage of of the international community to impact history again and to start thinking about not yeah I think part of the problem one of the things that's really in our way is we're still on defense like you said oh yeah and I think part of it is because we're experiencing the international community trying to like take away part of our land vertically into the box right reverse our victories of the six-day war I actually think you know if you take all the Jews living in the West Bank we're a very diverse group you know I know you live in the West Bank I live in the West Bank our communities aren't the same my best friends lived in the West Bank but but I think that there's a common denominator that a lot of us share and that's that where we see ourselves as his proud ancient people that was unjustly displaced from our land we saw Mao managed to return home after 2,000 years against all odds yet the international community is trying to displace us again through a two-state solution and the only way we figured out so far how to resist that is to populate as many mountains as possible to make it logistically hard for the that's pit right now now I've been part of that I've spent the last 18 years of my life being part of those efforts to populate these different parts of the West Bank and East Jerusalem but but one conclusion that I've reached is that in addition to those efforts I think the the real essential way to defend ourselves from international attempts to divide our land is to unite with Palestinian actors who are looking to resist a two-state solution as well if Palestinians and Jews were able to speak in one voice against partitioning this land against a two-state solution then I think the international community especially the United States will lose all moral credibility in trying to push these top-down solutions on us this is a powerful stance and it's something if people want to know more about a higher man that they tie in division mag these magazine and that they be in touch with you because I know many people out there probably heard that or thinking a lot I've never really heard anyone who's in favor of populating what hilltops with Jews talk about uniting with the Palestinians something else I would add to that is that we need to learn to speak in a language which can unite the world in new ways right so many of the paradigms that we inherited from world war ii that they said of post-colonial problems as you name them are already dead in the water they're dead men walking but but but we have not yet offered a vibrant alternative and that it's so much of what Jerusalem offers and I want to kind of use that as a segue to the last point no we're in the middle of the of counting there oh man around the middle we're moving toward the end this sort of like sacred period in our calendar and aside from questions of whether we're really religion or now one of the great gifts that we've inherited from our past is the Hebrew calendar is a tremendous tool for tying into the spiritual rhythms of the universe and and here we are moving from the time of liberation toward a time of full freedom and the receiving of the Torah we're going out of Egypt that pass off and standing at Zion showboat and it happens to be that each day if people are unfamiliar it has a particular characteristic each day in those 49 days and the day of Yom uberchaun falls out and present Shiva Malcolm mm-hmm Mao hoot of course is that kingship it's the capacity as I like to say to hold the context that allows the pieces to come to right relationship right that is my understanding of the way our tradition frames mal cooked and Jerusalem is the key stone in our history for our ability to hold the context for the world that will allow the pieces to come to right relationship and Yomi ruch lime is the message of the Mount Hood it's the day in which like you said we were ready for it perhaps we didn't even deserve it but God said you know what it's time here take this and and one of the one of the great challenges of any active Cassatt of course is that you know is people can choke on it if you give someone they're somebody they're not prepared for right even with the greatest of intentions god forbid you can do a lot of damage we say that a curse is like a blessing we're not ready to receive yet for sure because we believe call me at the sham everything's from God and therefore there are really no curses per se there are only those which we don't have the vessels to receive so I want to offer this to you that this is the process holiday mm-hmm right this is the holiday of the in-between of how do we embrace the joy of and gratitude for being where we are and I just want to emphasize to the listeners who maybe can just hear the noise in the background don't appreciate the fact that that the grass is green the sky is blue the trees are fantastic the birds people of every description religious non-religious Jews Arabs people of all persuasions just just living their lives here with a richness which I think forget 2,000 years ago a hundred years ago we would not have been able to imagine and and and yeah underlying that we can talk about like it is miraculous and yet underlying we could talk about structural inequality we can talk about the larger problems of social injustice we could talk about religious tensions in the way and they're all real and true but I'm grateful to be having those discussions within the context of renewed Hebrew sovereignty and in Eretz is here this is it this is why I think that humor shine falls out in the passage of a mile hood because we now have the capacity right the conditions exist yes and and and that was a gift it was Grace and we didn't really deserve it was true classic but with it comes a great responsibility to now do the work to get from here to Sinai here that's what I think what would you're expressing I think is what I would call real messianism is it like Christianity is not nasty anism Marxism is messianic whereas Christianity is not and I think we're most somebody for that one out there understands messianism to me to be messianic is to believe the conditions exist to create a better world so I would say that just like we can argue you know Western liberalism and capitalism are better than what came before it better than the feudal system etc you know Israel came back to life in order to create to present something new to the world in order to influence a world or something better that is what I see is Hebrew universalism that's what I think young new Shalem should be the beginning of that now we think about not just our own survival and our own defense and our own nationalist aspirations but our Universalist aspirations you know a lot of the conflicts of than Israeli society are between like the forces of Jewish nationalism and the forces of Western liberalism and I think that ultimately we're gonna be able to transcend those extensible opposites when we unpack real Hebrew models of universalism meaning like minority rights in the State of Israel don't have to go according to Western models if we try to impose Western models of I'm just using minority rights is one example but if we try to use Western models of minority rights that will threaten the forces of Jewish nationalism but satisfy to the forces of Western liberalism if we create a system and a society that's inherently unjust in favors one ethnic group over another that will obviously upset the forces of Western liberalism but please the Jewish nationalists we need to create models of real Hebrew universalism that can transcend that extensible friction and satisfy the forces of liberalism and nationalism within us and I think the driving force that I'll just repeat back what you said is a real massive ism the real belief that the world can actually be a better place not that that salvation lies beyond but that salvation actually will come to fruition within and here we are sitting in the not yet fully rebuilt but certainly fantastic city of Jerusalem and was sitting two children playing this was able to laugh when he saw the foxes on Horeb I even though they were messing with his recording this is a fulfillment of prophecy people and I want you to be part of where we are you can be part of it with unicorn by finding a vision say it again vision magazine the next stage podcast at vision magazine just search vision magazine on soundcloud or go to vision mad org or you can reach out to me and I'll put you guys in touch you can always find me you know where I'm on Facebook and Twitter Jewish story podcast just get in touch people Rob Mike Feuer at gmail.com and I want to thank a few people before we close out I want to thank all those folks that give their hard-earned money for helping to make this show happen for keeping it free and widely distributed I want to ask you to join them right now do a little something for the sake of your Muench line go to my website Jewish story that CEO in the upper right hand corner you'll see a button that says be a patron you can click on through for a little bit of podcast support if that's a little bit more than you're looking for I'm happy to sponsor the show in the memory of the deceased or in honor of the living send me an email and I will set you up with the details I also want to thank the Land of Israel Network for creating platform allows me to reach so many amazing people that's the land of Israel dot-com want to thank the partes Institute pa our DES org dot al for a building an educational institution allows me to touch the hearts and minds of so many amazing Jews and I want to thank you for listening here on this wonderful juice