THE INAUGURAL EPISODE - JUST LOVE THEM

[Music] Hello everyone and welcome to inside art scroll where the books you read and the people who write them come to life. We are joined today by Rabbi Gadalia Ladawitz, president of Arts Scroll Misora Publications, and Rabbi Israel Besser, best-selling author, Mishbaka, editor, and the author of the book we'll be discussing today, just love them, the biography of Rabbi David Trank. I'd like to start with Rabbi Zladawitz. What was the impetus to publish this book? I spent many summers with Trank about 40 summers we spent together. And as I wrote in my introduction, most people in the summer, unfortunately, it's a time that you know, they don't stay where they were throughout the year. It's a time sometimes people go down in their being around Rabbi Tran just lifted me up, my wife, my family, anyone who spent the summer with him was just And that's at Camp Monk we're talking about. That was in Camp Monk. Now, what was Rabbi Tran's position in Camp Monk? Rabbi Tran actually started as a boy in Camp Monk. He was a camper and he stayed on after he got married. He was a learning rebby. He was the spirit of Camp Monk. You hung around him. You just wanted to be a better person. His obvious just rubbed off on you. And I figured a book like this, the story of Rabbi Tran's life, how he loved everyone and how he lifted everyone up through that love just had to be told. Now, Ribisro, when you got the phone call, there's a tran book to be written. What was your reaction? So, it's interesting is not giving himself enough credit. I had just I wasn't even finished yet. I was in the middle of a book, the Tasha Rabba. I had another couple of weeks left and said, "We have to meet and I just come into my for the summer. I was, you know, just in the middle of unpacking my car basically." He's like, "Tonight." So, we met midpoint between Brooklyn and Mansi. And he said, "I think you should write this book." And I said, "Really? Ever trying a book? Are you are you certain?" And he's like, "It's not only a book, it's the book." And I said, "I I hear I trust him implicitly." So we made up to meet Mr. Tran. So the next I drove to Lakewood, sat there for about two hours and I called him up. I'm like, "Wow, thank you." Now, had you known Rabbi Tran before? I knew him. You knew him? And yeah, you went to Cam. You're a Cam Moner. I was his waiter. I was in awe of him. I over the years after I'd started to write, he was very very warm to me and always very encouraging. I just didn't see it as a book. Right. Now, in the book, in in your book, you describe your first one of your first sentences, the the night that changed my life. What changed your life? There's others in my family who are better equipped to answer the question than me. I would like to think I became a better husband and father, not just a better husband and father, much more in touch with the role and the responsibility, uh, how to react, how to view the people around you, and how to use your words in a way that lets everybody shine. I think I was okay before that also. But there's just a certain a certain level of of calm and happiness that that defines almost every interaction since I I started to buy into the the tran doctrine as as I think of it. Now you started writing it. You were doing interviews. Walk me through the process of putting together such a book. Do you do all the interviews and then start writing or do you do a few interviews, start writing and then continue? And do you do it in chron chronological order? what is the process of putting together such a book? So it it's interesting you know I live in Montreal the face-toface interviews we're doing as as I was able to get to them I was in my for the summer so that I started out with that you know the you sit with Tom you sit with family members and you hear these are the names that you must speak to face to face so obviously the siblings of David Konita and his wife and Zavi Tranalia Brudney who was not only a close friend of rebre was Brdney so that was very important to me to meet in personal was very much a part of that process as well it wasn't we to talk over every name both from catmunk from the Duly yeshiva later from Yeshua and you do this for long enough you start to understand certain types of people who are more likely it's it's very counterintuitive you it's not what you would think a lot of times the closest people are not the best interviews sometimes it's somebody who's a little further but they have their one or two amazing stories that that they'll they're going to deliver something for you but it takes a lot of time to interview people face to face people don't just start spitting at stories because you press a button takes a lot of time they have to be comfortable with you have to be comfortable with them you have to establish the background and from there you hope you're going to get the stories you want. But if you're attuned to it and you're listening and you hear a name that they drop and that's something that you want to follow up more, you make a note. So over the summer I just was piling I wasn't writing at all. I was just piling in as many interviews as possible. And I had something unique in this book which I didn't have in all my books which is I would s find myself coming out of an interview and just sitting in the car for for 15 and 20 minutes wowed on digesting it digesting it. I would go home and tell my wife you have to hear what somebody said today. and myself they weren't uh kadushim they were obvious things but I had just never thought about them before and and through the world of rabbank and the effects of his success you'd sit with me who look like regular people like anybody else and you see them start talking about their rebi 10 15 20 years later suddenly the tears in their eyes and the light in their face it's the passion and intensity the way they talk now about dining learning raising their families yiddishkite and you say wow this man created something incredible he put batteries into people that never die. Now, one of his talidum I was heard quoted. He said something to the effect that when Rabbi Tran was alive, people were embarrassed to say they were his Talmud. Now, everyone everyone wants to say that he was a Talmud. What do you think he meant by that? I think that Tran was an original person. He he wasn't the buttoned up predictable Torah figure that we're used to. And of course my satra is given a certain way and there's a tour of and that's how conducts himself and I understand that not mo many rashas cannot and should not sit in pizza shop and start kumz with the waiters it's not for everybody but you know told me after the book came out he says uh there going to be many rabban muras who are tempted to emulate the things they see in this book for a lot of them it might work for a lot more of them it probably won't work you're not rabbi tran not everybody is meant track. Not everybody has that and not everybody has that inhibition that that the people are inhibited. I'm saying and and they're not able to do that. If it's not real then the then the see that right was different. I I've seen him at conventions and I'm sure that I wasn't the only one who maybe even thought what's wrong. People probably rolled their eyes from his techniques from his raw pain at at at at the way he felt namas were being dismissed in some of the conversations. If he heard at a at a convention or at a session people discussing the shamas like a production facility that what should we do with our seconds or with the the pants that didn't work out, he would go crazy. He would erupt. And of course, it's natural for people in the business to sometimes not everybody is always on. And if he caught that, he jumped up like a tiger to do battle for those meet him. So it's not it doesn't mainstream you to be that guy, right? But you look at somebody who's doing it for 40 years, day in day out, then you see the effect and you start saying, "Wow, he knew something we didn't." So I think the answer is that even if not every m could take his template and replicate it, but every single person or not, could take some component of what he did and apply it, whether in parenting or in the classroom. And you're right, not everyone's going to jump up by a convention and do this impromptu act that he did. And not everyone's gonna, you know, start a kumzit in a pizza store, but every person could take that love and that acceptance and that understanding. You're not gonna have to take it. You know what? I I don't believe that this book is, you know, some of the advertising copy called it a guide book or a handbook or manual. It's not. It's going to happen to you, ma. It's like when you hear music that makes you want to dance or makes you want to cry. This book is going to do it. You're not going to have to take anything. You're not going to have to make notes and say, "Okay, that's point A, point B." I'm telling you, anybody who reads this is going to read it and something's going to happen from them. You know why? Because they know it's true. It's already inside of them. It just I think about I think I agree with what surely is saying by Rabbi Trank. It wasn't an act. He didn't read a manual and say now it's time to jump up. Now it's time to start screaming. His natural love for every yid told him in this situation this is what you're naturally going to do. If I would start jumping up on a chair in the middle of a convention they would lock me away. Trink they knew was so genuine and that's how he expressed himself. So if someone's going to read this book and start doing that I I don't re recommend they do that. But what you take out of the book is the concern. So you'll show it in your way. You have a personality. You're going to show that concern. Express that concern. Show the love in the way you'll do it. I'll do it a different way. He jumped up on chairs. He that's the way he naturally reacted. We're going to take the love lesson of how to build people up and we're going to deal with it the way we deal with people. You know when the book came out I thought back a year I work as a editor for and the paper was coming out that week and I remember Rabbi Lipshitz at the time was in I believe with Gdalia around the same time father's yard site and the decision was made we're putting Rabbi Dovatrank on the front cover and uh we were coming up with a name we we wrote just love them so we were maven but I remember at the time a couple of people commented wow Rabbi David Trank on the front full cover, full tribute to him and he deserved it. But the fact that there was a comment made reminded me that you know what we didn't appreciate him when we had him. And one of the lessons I think the book will teach all of us whether we read it or not is to start appreciating these people when we have them. And I'm sure many of the people you met are lamenting that we say this. Somebody called me up a friend of mine. He read the book. The nurvank read the book. He told me his son has to make a big decision and his son is a tot elephant in Israel and he said normally I would say he's the son's in America man he hasn't really been in touch with his rebi dayto day but now I realize what a rebi means now I realized to appreciate these people like you say there's plenty of great people there's plenty of great rebias he says I'm going to seize the moment I'm going to think differently and we're going to we're going to get them and we're going to do whatever he says because he read this book and he sees how how lucky is somebody who has a rebi he can listen to and trust 100% I live a mile away from where rabbi and rabbits and tran live. I drive past his house almost every day. I feel a void in my heart. I'm lamenting. Why didn't I pull into that circular driveway and just knock on the door? He wouldn't have to know who I am and he would have brought me in. I I just I read the book and I'm like, I what did I miss out on? And I think that it's a good feeling for us to have. You have to lament the Rebbitson. I should visit the Rebson. Visit her. She's amazing. I'll tell I have the same feeling. My wife's the camp mother and camp monk. So we're still there. This past mat shabas, we were sitting in the family dining room. It was late mat shabas. We're eating malava malka with another family. And Rabbi Tran religiously would eat malava mala in that dining room for the 50 years that he was in camp 60 years. Sometimes we joined him, sometimes we didn't. And I was thinking exactly what you're saying. I wish he was here. If I what would I give for another Malava Malca with him? And how many times was I too busy or I was too tired and I didn't go and enjoy it. It's really that's a lesson for us. We have so many people in our lives that we could spend more time with that we could learn from. Don't wait. Grab the opportunities to sit with these giants. Absolutely. One of the things that were blatant to me in the book as well and when I heard the HPM people talking about Rabbi Tran is that he was able to understand and sympathize and associate with every type of person young old in between teens in teens at risk teens in pain. But at the same time he never ever compromised on his principles. Never. Not an ala not an ashkaf. Talk about that for a moment. when you started putting together his biography and you realized that he was such a a person and you don't always find that it's a it's a dichotomy to be able to associate with everyone and also maintain your hashem on the absolutely highest levels is remarkable I could tell you a story that appears in the book which I thought is is the legacy of trank in a nutshell everything you just said I don't know much about being a very sophisticated I also don't know very much about reaching out to the people he So I can't tell you how he did it, but if somebody's perfectly real and authentic and sees the shamas, then it's all part of one. There's a incredible rabbi in in his yeshiva receptamist told this over to me that he uh he was waiting online to talk to Matio one day and uh he waited and he came to to the mash because Matiso and he said I wanted to ask you a question. He says, "I'm a rebank." And before he finished the question of Matio said," he says, "Later on his way back to yeshiva, his family dropped him off and Tran was coming out and his little son said, "Oh, Tati, there's the funny man. There's that funny man." He says and he taught himself in half an hour. I just went the full spectrum of trank saying he's ladnik mash and the biggest achieve in the world who's saying on him he's vavnik and my little son saying oh there's the funny man as if he's some kind of zisa clown that you know from uncle concert. He said that's tran's legacy. He was the tadika knew him as a sadic. The kids who need a smile knew him as that. He packed it all in. Amazing. Now the the book which is impeccably written. It's a beautiful read. We've heard from people who did not want to put put the book down. The pages just turn almost by themselves. I noticed that besides for the stories which are phenomenal. There are small anecdotes about his hanag that are eye opening. One of them that jumped out at me is that Rabbi Tran loved hearing that I believe it was the Belerba never called an irreligious Jew who didn't keep Shabas a Shabas. He called them Shabas. They they forgot the essence of Shabas that that so describes the way he saw people and people who maybe weren't where they should be on a religious level. It just was so eye opening to me. We you read the book, you view the world through Rabbi Trent glasses. It's a different world. You see the person, we know he's M Shabas. So we many of us will look at the person he's Mal Shabas. Rabbi Shank didn't see that. He saw that pinty yid which was there because everyone has it and that's what he focused on. It happens to me right now the person is not keeping shabas for whatever reason but he's a yid. He has a holy spark in him. That is what rabbi train saw and by seeing that that spark ended up raging into a roaring fire. We've spoken about this. Did Rabbi Trink see it and overcome it? Did he not see the negative? What what was it? Did he have to train himself? Was he born that way? I mean, you you spoke to everyone who knew him. What What would you say? I would say like this. I had an opportunity last week to speak in Cat Monk, which was Rabbi Tran's the breeding ground that created Rabbi Tran. So, I could only tell you what I think. I was saying how there was somebody I live in Montreal. I wasn't a big fan of the couple who I didn't I didn't love them. You know, it was before I read Just Love Them and I used to be more judgmental. I just wasn't big fans. We had we had rubbed each other the wrong way. They probably didn't like me very much either. And you know, just not not a big deal. It wasn't a fight. And one day, uh, somebody was watching my kids and the the, you know, the person looked away for a minute. One of my kids ran into the street and and cars were coming. And this woman whose husband I didn't particularly love ran into the street and she picked up my kid and she brought it to the other side of the sidewalk. And from then on, whenever I see her or her husband, I feel such an overwhelming sense of and to them such gratitude, love. you saved my child's life. There's nothing else that I see now. Whatever little things I had in my heart about them are not only irrelevant, they're completely negated by the overpowering sense of I feel how could you thank somebody who saves your child. I think the tran is such a blinding light. I think that he didn't see anything else. He didn't focus on anything else. It's not important. You're learn what you're so big. You're so much bigger than whatever small things the rest of us who aren't trained in looking at people this way. And you know what? It wasn't only for people who are shabas or for the people in your own life as well. There's something so much bigger going on than you're saying. Don't be small. And the truth is I think that that's how it has to work. It really has to come from us internally, not where, like you said, oh, we're following Emanuel number one, number two, number three. It really has to come from a very real place. He had a way to focus on the good parts of the person he looked at. What we speak about potential, that's always the word we use about a kid who's struggling, an adult who's struggling. He has potential. Potential means down the road there could be something good about them. Right now, he looked everyone has something good about them. He focused on the good point. And that's what he that's what he saw because he trained himself. There's good here. Focus on the good. Bring out the good. Tell the person how good they are. But it has to be real. He didn't make up things. It was real. He found what was good and he kept on driving it home. We would walk. We would walk into the dining room and he would tell my wife, "Mrs. Zado, it's the way you served those the the the the campers that but they needed the special food today because they have allergies. You did it with such love. You took such good care of them. It built her up." It was true. She did do that. But how many people would make a big deal about something like that? It's your job. Of course, you should be doing it. He knew how to build up a person with whatever was true and good about that person. Absolutely. And he had an amazing way. You read story after story of having the right response in an impossible situation. There's a story about this child who was Mahal Shabas and he was inconsolable. His parents couldn't console him. He felt so bad. They brought him to Rabbi Tran and Rabbi Tran said, "Thanking that you're a human being and human beings make mistakes. Thank Hashem you're not a halcha and you're not a frog. I loved it. One of my favorite stories in the book also about the genius of coming up with the right thing to say. There was a young man of mouses Yeshua who was struggling. He would come to yeshiva but he would leave early. Every day he would leave early and he would go home and Rabank would go over and either play ball with him or try to encourage him to come back but to check up on how he's doing. And one day the mother of this child says to Rabbi Tran, "I don't understand my child. It's not, you know, he's a miracious Yeshua. He can't spend a whole day in Yeshiva. He has to leave at 2:00 every day." And he looks at her and says, "You must be the greatest mother in the world. Your child wants to spend time in your home. Most childs will be running around the mall or somewhere else. He wants to be with you. You must be the greatest mother." Unbelievable how we spun it around. built up this woman and made it from the woman who told me the story was saying it over and she had a tremor in her voice when she was telling it to me like choking back her cries. Phenomenal. It's a genius. Yeah, it's genius. The story about when the kid the kid was expelled, he drives him home. He said, "Okay, you know, you have to be out of yeshiva." And he drove him right back to yeshiva. He accomplished that story is is educational genius. Yeah, that's educational genius. They had to really respect the rules. Never uh the words just love them might make you think anything goes. It wasn't anything goes. They're disciplined people and they there was a tremendous respect for rules but at the same time the med like the made the world with me at and then said no no I need to do this was overpowering all the time. There's another story that I that I noted in the book where he was teaching a Gumar and Kaducian about being kind of about being acquiring an animal and he said lift he told his talid lift it up and he's yours. He was telling them a lesson in relating to people relating to youngsters. I was thinking you could have called the book lift them up and then they're yours. It's really How many titles did we go? How many times you go through? Once a week title. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, tell them how he got to this title. It really defines I had a working title. Rank's favorite song. I wrote this in the book, was Abra Rothenberg's The Ninth Man. The reason he played every single morning when he picked up all the boys, he did his rounds through Lakewood, right? Morning carpool. I don't know that there's another yeshiva in earth now or ever with Yeshiva does. Morning carpool. Not buses, not subsidized, not jersey, not nothing. The Yeshiva driving his van, picking up the kids one by one, waking them up, often letting himself into the house. He knew all the combinations except in one case where the mother didn't like him to come. So he kept a a baseball bat in his trunk and he would tap on the window till the kid came out. Anyhow, so Trank's driving and every morning they're playing the song. The reason he loved it and A told me first time he met Tran. No, not the first time after he made up the song, he hugged him for such a long time and told him because I since I am their rebi the Rebi says I got to take a turn at bat in the in the song because I'm since I am the Rebi. So felt that the of is expressed in since I am the meaning rabbi's got to do whatever it takes it does pass it doesn't pass it looks good it doesn't look good if my didn't need something that's where I am since I am the the rabbi so that was my working title for about three months that was since I am the rebi was the title of the book which a great title and that really personifies if you if we would be able to ask her by train what was your greatest role he would say I was the rebi interesting I I noticed something interesting he would sign his text messages to tell me that many then forwarded me text. They saved them and after he passed away they sent them to me rebi most of them don't sign don't call themselves rebi it's almost and another rebi who would be considered a guy but they signed their name rebi you have a rebi and I'm your rebi that means that that also was his sacrifice I'm going to sign off rebi not David drank absolutely even though he called himself all the time drank David drank whatever it took rebi since I am the rebi um this story came from uh came from Somebody went to him in his last months already and he and he he wasn't well but this person was taking a new position in a new school not a conventional yeshiva someone said rabbit tran is the authority you have to speak to him trank really wasn't capable he was so sick already knew that he wasn't really capable of hearing the the back and the fourth and what the challenges of the job he wasn't he was it looked like he was dozing off and and this would be this this future manal or reb he's telling every this whole story and he's like you know what's the solution what should be the approach approach. How do I do this? And looked up and he just said those words. He got up and he lifted his head. It looked like he was dozing. He said, "Just love them. Just love them." That means he encompassed 40 years of his experiences in those three words. And I I keep telling people it's not just love them. It's just love them. Right. It's a different song. Right. Right. The emphasis is on something else. Make sure that whatever you're doing, it doesn't mean just love them. It means just whatever decision you're making, it better be coming from a place of love, not from your covenant, not from your ego, and certainly not from anger. I just want to say the reason why we ended up shifting away from a title that had the word rebby in it because it's true the essence of Rabbi Tran was a Rebi for so many years. And that's how we view Rabbi Talmud relationship. But he was so much more than that to his family, the way he treated his wife, the way he treated his children, the way he treated his friends, Rabonim and Lakewood. It was the same just love them. That's why I personally felt we should not limit the title to the word rebi because then people think if I'm not a rebi, it's not for me. No, this book is for anyone who interacts with another person, which we all do, whether it's a spouse, a child, a parent, a friend, doesn't make a difference. I just watched a video. Someone had sent out a clip of Rabbi Tran speaking and he was recounting when he was first being accepted into MEF. You could tell that story about his interview. To me, it was so eyeopening. You talk a lot about being accepted to RJ for two reasons. The manal said to him, he said he could he didn't know the garra his father had to answer for him. Father's a big Tom. His father never really went to yeshiva only for two years. Did the same yeshiva RJ and then he had to go to work. He had come over as an orphan from Europe. But his father never stopped learning. It was he eventually finished very well to a big part of the book is just the the the richness of the history of and I got this feedback from people park 50s and the 60s and that community. We don't talk enough about that. There's a lot about the generation before that. But this is the first generation of survivors and the ones who came over and his father had to answer for him at the m so the the manal asked him do you play ball you a basketball player so he says yeah he likes to play basketball he said great then you're in yeshiva welcome welcome to RJJ he always saw that as the model of a successful bhenna and I think both parts I think he liked that they asked and learning because that's what we're about but at the same time of course you're welcome to is yours you know it you don't know it you will know it now gdalu this book the sales have been unprecedented I would say or at least on par with some really historic booksellers what what what has been the feedback that you've heard from people real life stories where people are taking this book and saying you know it's really changed me it's changed my outlook I think the we're getting I mean it's I don't think we could even count anymore the amount of text messages emails phone calls I was in LA last week for a wedding so I walk into the wedding and Many people came over to me and told me about the book. Wherever you go, and what's amazing is all backgrounds, it could be teenagers, adults, lit fish, it doesn't make a difference where you're from, what type of person you are, the message of the book is talking to them. One of the most like a Rebi wrote us and he said, "I wish the school year would be starting already. I'm itching to apply these lessons to my talid but we're getting so people said we got to call this night both and a principle of a top top in the United States who says I I was I'm so emotional reading the book like I'm thinking now in all different situations what would Rabbi Tran do that's how people are thinking now what would Rabbi train do in this situation how would he react And I think that's going to have a major positive impact on people. Phenomenal. Any part any closing thoughts? Rubies. Love you kids. Be nice to them. Have patience. Love them. That that's that was his credo. I want I want to just say that you know you can't be a Rabbi Tran without a Mrs. Tran. This one of my favorite parts of write of really coming up with the idea and speaking about writing the book writing writing is you know I told swilly after we met it's a great idea and we have to get this book done but generally what happens is when you write about someone you need permission from the family sure that's the standard you don't just write about a person it's not always such a simple process and it's not always simple and they want to be involved in every last word and how do you portray him I went to Mrs. drank right after Shiva. During Shiva, I said, "I want to speak about something." After Shiva, I went to see her and I said, "I'd like permission to write a book about your husband." And she looked at me and says, "Permission? My husband didn't belong to me. He belonged to Kali Israel." So when you have that attitude, you could have a ribbon together with his rabbitson to change the lives of so many thousands and thousands of people that they came in contact with throughout their life. And Mrs. Tran really is doing the same thing right now. She meets with people. She helps them out in their own family situation. She just told Sully a amazing story. So he went to see her last week with his wife and Mr. Train said, "You know, she helps people as I said with their children and um a mother came in and said, "My child is a monster. He's a monster. I can't control him. He makes the other siblings in the house crazy. He's always fighting. He's a monster. I don't know what to do with him." Going on and on. And Mrs. Tran says, "Can you please walk out of the room for five minutes and come back?" And the mother walks back into the room. And Mrs. Strang says, "Let me paint the following scenario for you. There's a camp opening in Lakewood and after COVID and everyone wants their children to get into camp and there's one spot left for one child and the administrator of the camp calls you up and says, "I have a long waiting list. Why should I take your child? What would you tell me?" And the mother says, "My child, he's the most responsible child I know. Such a responsible person. You give him something to do. you could count on him, he's going to do it. So she looks at the mother and says, "Did you ever tell your child that?" And that defines the tran doctrine. Focus on the good and you will build up your child, your spouse, your friends, and all the people around you. Clus Israel owes both of you a debt of gratitude to Rabbi Besser for putting pen to paper and putting the life and legacy of Rabbi Tran in a language that we understand in a language that resonates with all ages. And a thank you to Rabbi Zlanowitz for bringing this book to the masses. It's a classic. It's enduring and I'm sure that people who read it for years to come will continue to glean tremendous lessons from this classic book. Thank you again to both of you for joining us. Thank you every [Music]