The Home Front: Marital Harmony - Different but Together - Rabbi Yirmiyahu Abramov

[Music] Hello and welcome to the home front. You know, every person is different. Every person is cast in his own mold. A combination of factors and variable variables helps to form him into who he is. Nature, nurture. Everyone has different emphases and everyone has different focus. How do we go about Rabbi combining two different people into one hole? You seem to ask very tough questions. It's my job. Okay. As you said, two clones don't get married. Maybe that would be the right thing, the best thing. Let's marry off two exact clones of each other. They think alike, they feel alike. Um they have similar um passions and that seem would make a very happy marriage. Wouldn't that be boring? Absolutely. And therefore um there is a great golden principle in Jewish thought that every single individual is completely and utterly unique. By the same token that our faces are completely and totally unique. Um you know the Hebrew word for a face is panim. If you slightly rearrange the letters of that word it's pim. Pim is the internal. The essence of every person is utterly and totally different. There are no two alike individuals. The toal says from the time of creation through till the end of history there will never be two exactly the same people in terms of their internal inner makeup. Everybody has a different soul and everybody has a different role in this. You mentioned the word tapestry in this grand grand plan of the creator. Um, it's almost like a massive jigsaw puzzle putting together all the pieces and each one has his own little role. So, everyone is different. So, by definition, we're going to have a situation when husband and wife are going to be vastly different from each other. They're going to be vastly different in terms of the upbringing. Even if they lived in the same block, even if they lived in the same building, they went to the same schools, but they're going to be vastly different because they first of all, their genetics are very different. Their very deep spiritual self is very very different and the the the totality of their experiences because as we've said before, um people are a function of their environment, of their exposures. So you're going to have very very vastly different people getting married. Now what about the gender factor? He's a he and she's a she. Male female. Vastly inherently different. So therefore by definition we're going to have people getting married who are vastly different. They may share certain common interests but that's not crucial to any marriage. It's not crucial to a marriage to share the same um interests. I would imagine that uh to make for a decent marriage, they can't be so opposed on cardinal issues that you're building in confrontations and uh and uh discord. But let's say they even they think alike on certain issues. They have certain common life goals. Um but in the inner makeup and the daytoday of life, they're going to be vastly different. They're going to have very different attitudes to very different things. But if I like rugby and my wife likes American football, that's that's uh not not a dealbreaker. Well, I think I mean I can't relate to American football at all. So, you know, as a but you're right. Uh uh they can have very very different uh tastes um in everything in art, in cuisine, in sport, in um intellectual stimulation. They can be very different spiritually. So we can I press you on that rabbi? Different spiritually what do you mean? Good question. Different spiritually as we said in the introduc my introduction that every individual has a different type of soul. Soul is where is the source of the spirituality. Every different individual comes from a somewhat different place. Right? If we want to wax now cababalistic. So I'll tell you that um the world was created with um God created man the spiritual man because we are just the human um embodiment of the spiritual man. The essence of man is his inner soul. So by definition my jigsaw puzzle parable every soul is different. Every individual is different. So by definition, you're going to have a situation husband and wife are going to be vastly different in many areas. It's going to it's going to surface in in circumstances in in the circumstances they were brought up. Exposures, education, etc., etc. So different people become one unit. Opposites attract. How opposite can people be? You mentioned earlier spiritual differences. I mean, if I if I can be so bold, what if people have completely different spiritual beliefs? Okay, we're um going to enter into a very significant arena which is one of the basic fundamentals of Jewish thinking and Jewish philosophy. Uh and it it's very important. We discuss it because this governs marriage also to a large extent. Well, let me go back into into some more profound history. Let's go right back to the very very beginning. In the first day, God created heaven and earth. So says the first verse in Genesis, the first verse of the Bible, the Talmud tells us, the cabalistic part of the Talmud tells us that um on that first day, God created the souls of the humans who he was going to introduce into the world once the creation was complete on the se on the sixth day. But he created all those souls because this was the souls were is the essence of this whole um creation are the souls. The souls is that aspect that are godlike that in a certain sense almost a part it's called it's a part of God so to speak. So all these souls were created. Now every soul has two parts to it. has a male and has a female side to it. And um these souls are stored in uh a very um important secure place under the divine throne, whatever that means. And God will decide at which point in history he will introduce these souls into the world, into this little embryo, into this little baby that will be born. Now when the souls are introduced um they are split into two the male and the female and the male is sent into a what's going to be a male embryo and develop into a male baby and the female part of the soul which is very inherently different is introduced into what's going to be a female embryo and a female pure baby and the um Zohar the great cabalistic writer ings um say that um God will orchestrate things in such a manner and he'll ultimately bring these two souls, these two half souls together and it is their challenge that when they get married they now have to reunify as one and become the one that they once were. Soulmates. Soulmates. Exactly. In fact, one of our great sages, the Ramban Nakmanades calls that when the souls ultimately, these two half souls ultim ultimately meet up again, they restore the original love that they once had as being unified once and now this gets restored. So that's the essential concept of marriages are made in heaven. Okay. Now going back to our jigsaw puzzle parable. Um every unified soul has a mission has a certain role to play in this magnificent tapestry of the grand plan of the creator spanning the entire time of creation, the entire existence of this world. And built into this relationship of oneness is a certain built in tension to keep us on our toes. You said earlier that otherwise marriage would be pretty boring if two clones married each other. So there is a built-in inherent tension between the two of them. And this gives the excitement and the challenge in life. I'll first relate to your question. What happens if you have completely disparate um people who have different beliefs? Now when you say beliefs, I take it you mean people who are part of different faiths. Is that what you're asking? For example. Okay. Or extreme different uh different streams within the same faith. But let's say they they disagree about basic tenants about what what the world. So here here we need to get into a um delicate delicate subject is that um the Jewish people who are known as the chosen people. I really rather refer to it as the people who chose uh because uh uh we chose to take on the burden of being in a certain sense the prefects or the light unto other nations. It was an enormous undertaking at many many points in history. A very painful undertaking. But the Jewish people chose to be um to be in this role of um being an example to man to mankind reminding mankind constantly that he has a um he has to keep his um integrity and his dignity as a human as opposed to being anim animalistic in his behavior. So this was the role of the Jewish people. Now the Jews um taking this role they were given the tools to be able to fulfill this role. So therefore when the Jewish people arrived at Mount Si which was the most uh the most significant junction of our history, it was when we then assumed this role and we became the um the people who chose the people who chose a mission um we were given certain tools and certain um inner strengths to be able to fulfill this role. So um one of the reasons that one of the cardinal principles of Judaism is that Jews marry Jews. It's not just you know to keep the fold together or to keep the national the national the as a as one nation. It's much more profound. It's on a much deeper spiritual level. A a Jew should not be marrying a non-Jew or someone who is of a different faith um because they have different different and I stress the word different inner spiritual makeup which is suited to their role. So um therefore the the most compelling argument against intermarriage which is a real issue today. The most compelling argument is that um the couple may be very suited intellectually. They may be very suited physically. They may be attracted to each other but on that very profound deeper level of the soul there is a difference. And um they are not going to be able to bond on that soullike level the way they should and they will not be able to achieve this oneness if they come from totally uh if they if they are are of completely different faiths. Can we differentiate between maybe the the um Jew versus non-Jew as opposed to let's say people let's say two Jews? Oh, there's no there's absolutely no problem with two Jews even if they are completely disperate in their beliefs within the fold. If they are Jewish by definition and there are definitions of who is a Jew once they have this soul and they are this common soul. So then it's environmental then it's educational then it's something that they have assumed that they have taken upon themselves these things can be resolved and these things can be and there are many many people who make sometimes radical changes in their life once they within this uh these confines of being Jewish. So therefore there's absolutely no problem of a Jew belonging to that group and marrying a Jew belonging to that group. It can be cross-cultural. It can be it can be something where they they're very remote and different and distant in their um in in in certain customs uh in in upbringing in culture it doesn't matter once the essence is there that they are they have the same sole matter then they can bond and they can become one. So that's going to involve obviously some kind of compromising changes. To what extent in making this tapestry that we've spoken of does that require changes as opposed to just weaving together? Can can can the differences continue to coexist or do we have to place an emphasis on trying to to eradicate some of those differences? Okay. one of the great um early thinkers um the safer which is one of very early um thinkers um who gave insights into all the mitzvot. So um he says that there is a process that is ongoing throughout marriage. It's magnified in the first year of marriage um where the Torah says there's a specific commandment to live together intensely in the first year of marriage. He says in order to try and these two disperate individuals to try and bring their um their their natures closer to each other to try and bring their desires and their wants and their ambitions and their goals in life closer together that they can coexist. And this is an ongoing process. It's an ongoing process that um requires a lot of compromise on both sides. Uh a person coming into marriage absolutely rigid. This is how I am. This is how I was uh born and raised and I'm absolutely going to be intolerant of any other nuance in the spectrum of our relationship. to reduce it to a a very simple level. I once counseledled a couple that um shortly after the beginning of their marriage um there were issues of confrontation and I said well give me an example. So they gave oh yeah here's a great example. The wife says, "I come from a home where my father would bring my mother a cup of coffee in bed every morning." And the husband came from a culture and a home where the mother would bring the father a cup of coffee in in bed in the morning when they woke up. So we got married, you know, we never discussed this issue and we both sat waiting for the cup of coffee, right? And that was an issue. I was shocked and he was shocked. Uh you not serve me a cup of coffee? Uh now this is a little nuance uh which it's interesting that can produce a lot of tension but it's a little nuance that the couple are going to have to resolve. There's no hard and fast rules. Both are equally legitimate. I quote in one of the books that we wrote on on marriage, a case that happened to me where a couple came uh where there was an extreme situation of tension that had developed very early in the marriage. And that was because he came from a very orderly and organized kind of a what they call like from a Germanic type of a um background where everything was very orderly and uh she came from a Polish you know Polish family and you know more casual in many ways of of conduct and um he was outraged at the way she handled the toothpaste tube. He was taught by his father that you know you roll the tube meticulously to make sure that you squeeze out every single drop. That is in the days when these tubes had a kind of metallic uh um aspect to them. And so and that's how he was educated and you know he would be sanctioned by his father if he abused this toothpaste tube. And she was raised in a culture where, you know, you come, you gave a fetch, you gave her a squeeze. So he would at breakfast say to her, "What did you do to the toothpaste tube?" She didn't know what he was talking about. And they found their breakfast discussions, the first kickoff discussion of the day over the stupid toothpaste cube. And he was, you know, explained to her the advantages of squeezing out the last drop. And she was thought he was off the wall, right? And it actually ended up they came to us for counseling. So is there any way of resolving that? As a seasoned marriage counselor, I advocated two toothpaste tubes. Right now, now there are thousands of nuances of this nature where there are differences and you can never ever detect them in advance. Right? Now every couple have to be and they have to build a mechanism and they have to build a um system whereby they can um resolve these issues and it always takes compromise. The best way is um you know the Talmet gives a a delightful little story sad story that there was a certain era in history where there was such extreme poverty that the Talmud says that there was six people would have to share one blanket. Now it's cold. Um how do six people share one blanket? I mean, they either were going to rip this poor blanket to shreds or or they're gonna slug it out all night. And the Talmet says the way they were able to accomplish sharing the blanket that everybody was trying to make sure that the other person or other people were covered. So when you got six people all concerned about each other as opposed to themselves, they managed. And I think that this is a fantastic formula. be concerned. You know, um, a person is not losing, a man is not losing his chauvinistic streak that he has in him if he compromises and he and he and he's sensitive to certain issues, particularly if these are insignificant issues. And by the same token, the woman, the same thing. She's not in any way compromising. By by two people compromising is going to be a great formula for coexistence and cooperation. and they'll slowly work out things. As long as there's a good, healthy, wholesome atmosphere of love, um they'll work out that they'll sort out these differences because the differences of on virtually every um on on every level, for example, financial uh policies, right? Well, it would seem to be one of the the places where we have the most discord in marriages often is in the management of the finances. I mean it it it would seem to be something which is managed very differently in different families. Indeed the husband may marry may manage them in one family and the wife may manage them another they may do it together in in another family and they may have different ideas as to what constitutes a a justified justifiable expense. Now it's all very well when we talk about toothpaste tubes to suggest that a person compromise. But let's say a person is uh very set on the idea that you know this expenditure is not worth it. When he goes away on holiday he doesn't want to spend thousands of dollars on a hotel. He'd rather spend the money on bungee jumping or whatever it is or something of more significance. Health insurance quad something like that. Something where there's a fundamental disagreement. It's something which which really matters to each person. How does one approach compromise the bigger things? Yeah. So, look, we're living in a day and age where um the traditional roles have basically disappeared. It used to be traditionally the man, the house, he is the one who dictates financial policy and the wife just has to, you know, go along with that. And that's changed. So, traditionally in Jewish families, the wife really dictates the policy, just lets the husband think that that he's dictating. Okay. Okay. That's that's certainly true. The only way that issues of this nature can be resolved is by real deep strong communication. Don't make any assumptions. Sit down and discuss it and map out the pros and cons and be ready to for the give and take. Right? So um people who are smart and sensitive um you know when they see that something you know that let's say the husband is taking a certain stand or the wife's taking a certain stand so on certain issues or give and take on certain issues but these things must be decided and mapped out in advance. If I understand correctly that means we can compromise on small things within the bigger problem to come closer to each other. Yeah. So that means you know they want to buy different cars. So they could they could approach each other and try and still try to find some kind of compromised position within them. But what when that's not possible? What if it's a yes or no question? Do we take out life insurance? Yeah. Okay. So uh again you know there's a policy of negotiations and discussions until smoke comes out. It just has to happen because you can't be in a situation when one will take um you know an assertive position and just trample the other person's opinions. There are varying cultures. There are cultures where where the the man has a certain say and their cultures and and arenas where the woman has a certain say. Right? So if the husband um decides to become very proactive in the kitchen and the wife decides to become very proactive in the financial policy. So depending on where their cultures are from and their backgrounds are from that may you know that may give rise to to challenges. So I think um what must happen is in an atmosphere of relaxed feelings they should discuss these things. Now, never, this is the golden principle, never discuss them when the passions are high. Never have these principal discussions at the time. You know, when when they they're walking and um uh she spots a dress in the in in in the window and it's got a heavy price tag and she says, "Oh, this is just exactly what I wanted." and she's and then they're outside the outside the shop they they decide to have well now let's discuss our financial policy that's absolutely the wrong time because they're already passions they're in a situation the time to have these discussions is when everything is comfortable when there's a loving atmosphere prevailing and they sit down and say okay let's let's let's talk about these issues now right there's a feeling of closeness there's a feeling of intimacy and then map out the pros pros and the cons um of the issues be they the financial issues be they the you know there's there's policy issues we've discussed once issues of child rearing you can have very very very different um uh policies in child rearing he comes from a home where um he was given an allowance and he had a whole you know from a young age he had an allowance and he was he was educated into financial responsibility from a young age and she comes from a home there were no allowance says whenever you want you come and you take and you much more free policy. Now this can this is something that can be um but can really be devastating because um you know the poor child will be totally confused. Is there an allowance or you know do I go to mall when I want you know to slip me something on the side that's dishonest and that's that's not right. So therefore discuss these issues. The the need for communication and discussion um is vast and it's in every arena. What's the policy with guests? What's the policy with in-laws or outlaws? Um there there's a need for for real discussion. What's the policy with with food? Nutritional issues, dietary issues. This is major stuff. It's ridiculous where you have a situation where husband and wife are constantly bickering over whether there should be salt in the table or whether you should take two teaspoons or whether you should in general be drinking coffee at all or whether there should be more starts or less vegetables etc discuss these issues learn about them you can sometimes agree to disagree that's fine also you can re and you can sometimes say you know what this is an area it's so sensitive you go your way I go my way you know I'm going to have my hamburgers and French fries and you can have your Brussels sprouts and uh and and carrots and we'll go our happily merrily way until we'll meet up in the doctor's office some years later with a cholesterol issue. Fine. You know, they can decide that that you know to avoid this confrontation or they can really let's let's look let's let's study nutrition together. Let's buy some books. Let's go to an expert where this becomes an issue. This is a very serious issue in marriage. Many many marriages the the dinner times are are very often sort of um marred where dinner should be a a celebration. Every time husband, wife and children sit down at a table, it should be a celebration. It shouldn't be bickering over, you know, whether there should be ketchup or whether whether we should read labels or we shouldn't read labels. So here we're mapping out so many arenas, right? If it's financial policy, pocket money for the children, who's going to call the shots and balancing the budget, um, nutrition, health in I mean there's just the list goes on and on and on. Now, we want a situation of oneness. A situation of one and they are different by definition. We want a situation of oneness. This situation can only develop as a result of real healthy discussion. And I'm saying again the golden principle. Discuss when there's a loving atmosphere. Discuss when the husband and wife feel very close to each other. When they intimate with each other, that's the time to when when they have a real feelings and of intimacy flowing between them. That's the time to discuss. don't have major discussions of this nature at the time when the the you know when when when the passions are high when the the lights are going off that's not the time to have these discussions and when you run into a confrontation say okay you know this is a great topic for discussion time out right we're going to sit down and we're going to discuss this at the right time this is something that is often misunderstood about Judaism particularly traditional Judaism People think that the gender roles are completely assigned and that really the male takes care of this and the female takes care of that. Whereas in truth there is a lot of flexibility. But to what extent does this have to be agreed upon before the marriage as opposed to being a running development during the marriage? To what extent do a couple have to be on the same page in terms of these things especially the bigger things before marriage? Look in in in very broad terms, traditionally um the husband is the one who should be primarily concerned with the spirituality of the family in general because the husband is the one who should be taking a certain lead in this in the whole spiritual development of the marriage. he should be take not to say that the wife's excluded from that on the contrary the wife has inbuilt spiritual senses that the husband doesn't have either um but in general the husband should be the one who's concerned with these kind of issues generally speaking um the woman has the role of the um healthy sound running of the home on the physical level um you know the king David in psalms calls the wife a habay aerabay is translated as the housewife but if you look in the commentaries it's much deeper a comes from the word the word ikar is a um is attached to the word akar the wife is the essence of the home right um and the husband has to be respectful of that could you just explain what the difference is between that and the spiritual side surely building the home is also spiritual. If she has more spiritual senses, what exactly? Yeah. Well, he he has to make sure that there are certain boundaries that are um that he himself by by example, right? Um he's engaging in spiritual activity. He's he's studying, he's growing um and he should be setting the tone with this and therefore and and he should be this this example for the children. Um the wife is much more preoccupied. A she's by definition much more heavily preoccupied with the very very young children with the infants. She's been going through the the pregnancy process. She's been going through the the birth. Um she's been going through the nursing where she is by definition completely um um occupied with this uh whole field. Now, um, and it's just, by the way, it's very interesting where the Torah equates husband and wife. They're both Jews. They both have the souls. They both have obligations to observance of of of Torah. But yet, the woman is absolved from an a whole massive sector of commandments. all commandments which are um dictated by time, positive commandments which have a time limit to them um unless otherwise specified in the Torah. So a woman is absolved of these. So she doesn't have to put on felactories to fill in. Why? Because that's something which is governed by a specific time. She doesn't have to say the um creed of the Jewish faith, the Schma Israel prayer within at a specific time because that's something that's bound by time. So the woman is absolved of this whole arena for what reason? Because she running and bringing up the children particularly so the infants she can't be bound by time. She can't drop the infant and say, "Well, I've got to go and put in my to fill in." She can't drop them and say, "Well, I've got to I've got to run and pray my my afternoon prayer before the sun sets." She can't be bound bound to these things. So, she has been absolved of all these areas. To compensate for that um she was endowed with a much deeper inbuilt greater level of spirituality. She is by definition inherently a much more spiritual being than the man is. That means that even if she doesn't, god forbid, have children, that means that she she doesn't need these things anyway, if she already had Okay. Okay. Okay. That's right. And could I extrapolate the same way that if the the husband happens to be the primary caregiver to the children, that doesn't absolve him of his responsibilities? Yeah, that's that's also true. That's also true because this is something inherent in the makeup in there. The the the spiritual makeup is also in their whole the totality of the makeup is um is very different. But if practically the husband's busy, you know, making supper for the kids, how can you expect him to rush rush off to Yeah. That will be one of the challenges of the husband. Um he has to pray Mina the afternoon service by sunset. Um even if the fish is going to be put on hold, you know, which is frying. You know, very often husbands experience this um after their wife gives gives birth and suddenly the husband finds, you know, he's got the run of the of the roost and he's uh and you know, he's it's a it's a huge challenge. So roles are are in a certain sense defined. The husband has an obligation to study um whenever he's got time, right? to study Torah, to grow spiritually, right? The wife doesn't have to have that same level of responsibility. She has the level of responsibility of growing and developing and developing herself spiritually, but she's not it cannot be at the expense of anything. Doesn't has to set aside certain times for his for his spiritual growth and he has to be dead to the world when he's doing that. So there there is a delineation of roles. Having said all that, um we have in a certain sense abandoned today some of these traditional passed down roles that maybe western civilization or any culture has imposed upon us. And it it's completely legitimate for the husband to pitch in with the housework. It's completely legitimate today for the wife to pitch in in in in the workforce and uh be part of the breadwinning um you know element of the family. So there is a certain confusion today and there has been a certain um evolution of the roles and changing of the roles based on circumstances. We no longer living in this tribal um type of culture where um you know the men were out all day hunting or in the fields and uh and and and all the women were living all together in one big happy family with all the different and they were all pitching. It's it's a different world today. Today it's little individual family units. Everyone's in his own little his own little nest. Um and uh they are and and therefore there has to be a sharing of roles and there has to be a real sensitivity. So there's absolutely nothing wrong with the husband putting on an apron and climbing into the dishes. Oh, don't tell my wife. Okay. Okay. On the other hand, um the woman can be absolutely engaged in um in in in in spiritual activities in uh in careerdriven activities. These are all fine. Um again, these things are largely based on um the individuality of the people involved um on the inclinations that they have and they must be sensitive to each other. So, in your opinion, if a couple were to decide before they got married that the wife would be the principal bread winner and the husband would stay be a stay-at-home dad, that would be something valid. That's fine. That's fine as long as you're not compromising. You see there there are certain um areas which might affect them inherently where you have a situation where the um sometimes for a woman to be totally and utterly career oriented um and the home is completely reduced to a a a a minimal role. Um it's to it's it's to an extent it might be compromising um certain natural tendencies that she has and and it is well known that certain that women who might be fantastic achievers outside in the workforce and um you know very high-profile career people have an a deep sense of longing for that homely motherly type of role that they should be and they feel certain pangs of conscience. So you've got to find the right balance but um all is legitimate if there is real consensus and understanding and um you know they they're comfortable with the different roles that they are. So going back to something you said in the beginning about the the masculine and feminine halves halves of the same soul coming together does that mean some souls are or some soul halves are inherently more masculine or more feminine? They have more of these feminine traits, masculine traits that would make that would attach the wife, let's say, to to um being more into the home or the husband being more into cooking or or or going out and being a hunter gatherer. Obviously, we see some people are more into that. Does is that because of something in their soul? I think that's more um something environmental. I think it's something which is absorbed as opposed to be inherent in the soul. I think it's something that um uh if the the wife grew up in a in an a home environment with a very strong mother and a very dominant mother, which is fine, then naturally she may adopt this even subconsciously into her psychic into her being. So I think the these are more acquired um traits as opposed to be inherent uh inherent spiritual traits. So we've seen that marriages inherently have conflict. That's not necessarily a bad thing. In fact, it may even be a good thing. The key is how we manage that conflict. The key is to be able to communicate, to be able to resolve problems as and when they come up in a calm manner, and to be able to create that rich tapestry which makes up a marriage. Thank you, everybody.