The Home Front: Getting Along with your In-Laws - Rabbi Yirmiyahu Abramov

[Music] hello and welcome to the home front you know cliches become cliches for a reason and one of those cliches that pervades Western culture more than anything in else is the cliche of the Mother-in-law of course fathers-in-law can be no picnic either but specifically mothers-in-law what is it about the relationship between parents-in-law and son-in-law daughter-in-law that can be so difficult and how do we approach it Rabbi okay that's the classic it's very interesting that the Hebrew terminology for In-laws is a very um kind uh words it's called the uh and which literally translated means warmth and it's as though that the in-laws are their role in this new entity that's been created is to generate warmth and coziness well we often find that that isn't the case I think the whole issue is it's really a function of the in-laws on the one hand coming to terms with the fact that their child has now been taken by he or her spouses and um in a some some deep down manner they resist the fact that the uh that they perceive their connection as weakening with their child that they've invested so many years and so much love and care and money and and now here goes the child they marry him off that's the height of the S and he or she toddles off and they're gone but that's not just a perception I mean it's a reality that's that's what Absolut absolutely so the question is are they gone and now this is a function of the behavior of both the couple and the parents it's crucial that um they respect the fact that a new nuclear unit has been created there's a new entity this new marriage has been created it's new it's Unique um it is uh not merely an extension of the two parents the cabalistic writings refer to a unmarried young man or young lady as a half an individual that uh they were not capable and are not capable of maximizing and fulfilling their full potential um until they find the other half and now a new unit has been created and it's a completely new new unit and it has its own Dynamic and it has its own energy it has its own missions its own role to play in the broader scheme of things um so this is something that it's important that the couple realize and recognize and it's important that the parents realize and recognize so Discerning parents should get tremendous and boundless Joy from the fact that the the the one individual be it the son or the daughter has now found their other half and are now going to start fulfilling and bringing out all their potential and uh developing together as a um as a as a new entity a new family building their own their own family Etc so step number one is that you want the the in-laws or the in-laws to be to start making a a positive positive steps towards helping the problem is what if they perceive problems and what what if they you know what if they're not so wrong yeah so the the um I think to a large extent the couple if they are smart they can help the parent who are really those who are who have been most hurt by this um Detachment and this new unit created if the couple help the parents along the best way of helping the parents along is if the couple display that they are now a unit they are now a one um and they're not to be related to as two individuals coming from different families but they are now a one and they present themselves towards their parents as a one couldn't that backfire if you're saying the whole purpose is that the the parents feel threatened that they're having the little baby taken away from them so by overemphasizing the the new Oneness at the expense of being part of the parental unit doesn't that come that be counterproductive well it could be but depending on the sensitivity of the young couple if they are really expressing joy and happiness and closeness with each other um ultimately the parents should feel unless the parents really have issues you know Dee rooted issues but if the parents are normal normal parents want to see their children happy so if the couple are really expressing this and um you know even if they are still going through their own struggles because marriage initially has lots of challenges and struggles as the couple um well you know formed together this new unit but these struggles and these issu issue should be kept very private and certainly be kept away from the parents because the moment they bring the parents into the issues then um the parents are going to um say well you see you know I I knew I I suspected that he was too much of a chauvinist or I suspected that she was etc etc so therefore the couple's role has to be they have to project togetherness and happiness and this will help the parents and the parents will find very quickly that there's no point and it's counterproductive if they try and isolate um the what their child from the um from the the spouse and still maintain some kind of an intense relationship with them the parents should be in a role of fostering and encouraging togetherness and closeness and um on the contrary they should uh that they should take joy in the secrets that are between the couple uh and they've been excluded from from from these but if the couple show signs of weakness and the couple are showing signs that there's uh there are issues in their marriage then parents will naturally want to inter intercede and step in and then the picture becomes much more complex so it's a good solid idea for when a young couple get married that they should establish quite firmly that they are now an entity um and um they should show tremendous um gratitude and tremendous warmth and and closeness to the parents but firmly stating that they are as one that they are a couple as one United Home Front United yeah have we really come up with a united front now it could be that that um a young couple floundering around have a need to um they need advice they need guidance and the best place for guidance could be from parents it's loving and it's uh there's caring and the parents know them both very very well um so when they go for their C for their advice and their counseling and their and their their help um it should always be as a unit they should be going there together you know um and uh looking to together for this guidance and for this uh uh for for you know for for what they have from the parents meaning to present grievances this is this is the wrong Forum agreement could be somewhere want to complain to your parents or his parents about right it's very hard for parents to be objective uhuh um and they'll obviously naturally tend to side with the with their child and the uh the new spouse is this uh um Invader from the out so they'll just create a very frustrating situation um now these issues become much more complex when there's a real dependency now the dependency could be Financial um the dependency could just be you know deep emotional so when there's a dependency um this could be a um a definitely a a diversive issue um the verse in the Torah which describes the entity of marriage actually States quite unequivocally therefore um the new generation should leave their parents' home and create a new entity so it's actually described in those terms a person he leaves his home and he's now going to create now um you know in the ancient tribal systems where everybody lived together kind of and it was all one big happy little tribe so there it's a very different cultural uh framework but in in today's modern day and age um where couples go away and this is the concept and they should be um you know they they they leave and not not detaching and not disconnecting in any way but very firmly making a statement that we are growing together we are one and um that they should have the feeling that the parents are there whenever they needed they're there for their help um uh so it's a delicate kind of relationship that has to be carefully monitored from both sides but um you know the classic uh statement of cutting the cord right at some point it's a it's a painful thing to do after you invested so much but this is something that is uh that is called for but it's it doesn't mean that it's a um it's a complete Detachment or disconnect um it's got to retain some kind of a healthy um new new form of relationship if I can just take you back you mentioned briefly in passing dependency being somewhat dependent on parents and I just want to touch on one issue you know it used to be very common and today and then it became less common now it's becoming you know even more common that newly we young couples are at least partially dependent on one or both of the sets of in-laws financially um that means that people obviously when they're still at University or even if they marry later um when they're trying to set up a home for rent or for help with mortgage payments they they're taking a certain amount from from either set of parents usually with the agreement of those parents but how how much extra safe does that give the in-laws when they're essentially funding um what goes on in this new entity this new home well smart parents um who want to see their the the couple establish their home correctly and properly and they and they want to see a a healthy wholesome new entity um thriving so smart parents will um give whatever help but they won't attach string to it no strings attached they absolutely not the whatever help is given should never be with attached strings it should be that we giving this to help you we always here for you um we here for your support that the cap should feel very free in the sense that first of all you're giving them a sense of their own personal dignity that they don't feel that that they're getting hand out but they're just being they they're going through the early challenges have established in their home they want to still complete their studies um so uh so parents feel you it's quite acceptable in many many cultures and many circles that parents continue helping but what about when they you know have a have a problem with the way the money is being spent I mean let's say they in their view their children are being proplate right I'm giving you lots of money and uh you're going and spending it I want you to be able to save I want you to be able to do this I want you or or I don't know pay for extra things for the kids or whatever it is and you're using it on holidays to the Bahamas that's not what we have in mind yeah so again I think that um you know parents that they have the right to to diminish the amounts of money if they see it the money is you know if the if the young couple spend their nights in the Gambling Saloon um you know they have the right to uh to to to diminish and they have the right to be very specific um what do you mean by specific be very specific that I'm be giving this that you can people can live in a healthy healthsome uh you know normal functioning manner um and um you know we're helping you along you know that they can offer the child uh can we help you establish a reasonable and healthy Financial setup in your home um very often young couples don't have a clue how to deal with banks and how to deal with savings and so good so parents have the um you know especially if they aiding them financially um and say come let's we'll help you determine a financial policy in the home because there should be a financial policy in the home in every home in respect to whether the parents are supporting them or not there should be a financial policy it's not just some kind of a random thing um that's another issue that maybe we'll we we'll discuss it time so let's just move back again to other kinds of support I mean a child assuming here we talking about a young couple a child goes through his life basically being you know I won't say emotionally dependent only on his parents but that's a major source of help at least in a healthy family of help with dealing with life's you know Peaks and troughs now according to what you're saying he gets he's in a marriage and he has things he needs to discuss about the way his wife behaves the way the relationship's developing and in accordance with what you're saying he shouldn't be discussing that with his parents or certainly not her parents because that's inappropriate so where does he go to discuss these things which he needs help with I mean I think the best policy would be always that if a young couple have an issue um and they have friendly parents and smart parents um so they can say you know let's go together and discuss the issues but they're going as one as as opposed to one going and kind of um complaining about the other that's the the the usually parents will very often parents will Foster the the the conflict as opposed to to diminish the the conflict when that when that happens so let's be real I mean many of the comp let's say issues complaints that people have are really even if you say they shouldn't be but there complaints about the way the spouse the other spouse behaves so I don't know my husband always tries to cook and he's a terrible cook so whether you like it or not that that's that's something which is you know ad homenum towards one person so how do we can't go united as a front for me to complain about the fact that you're doing something that I don't like how how do you who do you go to with those sort of is it should everyone have some sort of therapist to go to about these things therapists is is an issue that we need to talk about it's a it's a problematic issue Rabbi then Rabbi then you so some outside Factor look U sometimes couples just do that they most definitely they need guidance they need counseling they need handholding it can come from parents um but I think it has to be very firmly stated that the parents are not being divisive MH um they've got to come as a unit so it depends a bit on the parents attitude if the parent have a right attitude yeah absolutely and if the parents attitude is a negative divisive attitude then the couples just must just uh keep to find other areas of of of assistance and not turn to the you know if they find that the parents are just going to uh fan the Flames of whatever issues are happening then then then the parents are not the ones if the parents get too involved emotionally and um uh and interfere uh parents should be really guiding and steering from the outside uh the unit um sometimes um I mean this brings us back to another issue parents should put enormous amount of input into their children before marriage and guiding them and counseling toward marriage but once the couple are now a couple they should step back on this they should step back on this um and they should let the couple start um sorting things out now obviously um if you've got red lines that are being crossed by either one of the spouses that there's um violence or there's disloyalty or there's some inherent problem I mentioned in a joke gambling um or or or any kind of substance abuse or anything of that nature on the part of the spouse and and you're going to have a suffering wife or you're going to have a suffering husband um and the whole unit is now in danger so then parents should should should definitely play a role um if they or advise the the children pay for counseling direct them in the direction of counseling if they can't counsel but um the normal run-of-the-mill um issues that um are so common in every young couple's life that they struggling and trying to find this equilibrium and they trying to you know get used to each other and they so these normal things I would uh the best thing would be to care keep parents out of it and and established amongst themselves we building something new it's going to be new so true your mother was a great cook she was um and she is right okay she's she's a great cook but I'm interested in your cooking and and and and come we'll work it together and I'll even pluck up the courage and tell you that maybe you put a little bit more pepper into the um but when the couples are are all the time lamenting of the good times they had before marriage at home where you know they were mollycoddled and and and um that's not a healthy thing that's not something that on the contrary now if I give an example if for example the husband is complaining that he doesn't like his wife's cooking right so and his mother was a superb cook right um so uh a Discerning wife would say great you know I'm happy to go to your mother and get some lessons get some coaching it takes a lot of Pride swallowing okay but but okay she's a uh the in-law is a an older mature lady who's been through many years and and she's an old Pro and here's a young young new bride that she's uh so yeah and there's another thing that I think um sometimes parents have a need they have a need for for assistance for help right so when there's real objective need if there you know if there's health issues um Financial issues um or any form of trouble so that kids should make it very clear we're here to be to be there for you we're here to help um you know aging parents um who have whatever um need for support so uh there's no question that it will enhance the marriage um the husband will appreciate his wife all that more when he knows that his wife is being very kind to his mother and vice versa so on the one hand we need the couple to be uh in a certain sense detaching and creating their own unit but the couple and the parents should make it very clear that we there we here for you at any time and we're um and then of course there's you know once children enter into the arena and there's grandchildren so again um very often parents need coaching how to handle grandchildren uh because the most important figures in the life of a uh child should be the the father and the mother now the grandparents is a great addition but it should not supplant this very very special relationship that should develop between Father with the children and the father and the mother so you know the grandparents and most many grandparents are quite happy to you know come in get a bit of Joy play around and then leave the young couple to their mess and go home and uh um you know but you do have situations where you'll have interfering in-laws who will you know say that's not the way you bring up children and you know take it from me and this is how you do it and almost wanting to take over the parents have to be very very s sensitive and delicate about this and uh they can offer advice they say you know listen you know we've we Old Pros we've done for many many years uh we're happy to advise you but uh just trying to U move in and kind of spirit the kids away from the parents towards them because they think they can do a better job that really is an interference will create confusion with the children and will create complexities with the couple and um can really become a very diversive Factor this this uh when you when you're playing around with three generations um and the there's this interaction the interaction can sometimes be very uncomfortable it can be sometimes very um diversive how do you square this need for um you know telling parents when to not be involved with your uh fifth commandment obligations of honoring your parents I mean there's it's it must be very hard to tell to tell parents what you know don't get involved this is not your business how do you do that in a nice way yeah so look look um sometimes messages have to be communicated and um uh particularly when you have a situation and it is a it is a situation which is unfortunately a bit too common where you really have uh interfering parents and they really are creating a very serious um uh Harmony problem uh within this new unit so the run-of thee mole um principle the guiding principle here should be you have to say what you've got to say but you can do you've got to do it not at the time of of Confrontation um doe to in in a relaxed time um ask for a you know can we have a meeting can we have dinner together we want to discuss this issue and if it's presented in a very calm and a very um you know kind of asking the parents you know we tremendously respect the parenting your parenting skills and the fact is that we both are so grateful for what you gave us however we feel that we want the kids to start relating to us as the parents and as the figures of authority so we'll be happy to take your advice and guidance but um when it comes to disciplining where it comes to um determining all sorts of issues um you know please be a Cooperative with us what if there's an implied rejection of the parenting methods let's say I mean this is fairly common you have friends I have friends um sure everyone knows people who say listen my parents brought me up in way with this particular thing and I'm never doing that to my kids pick a random example let's say I don't know the kids had pocket money okay grew up just with a specific amount no more no matter what happened that was it and you had to do chores to earn your pocket money whatever it is so the Next Generation says we're not we're not you know inflicting this this torture on our children um I buy them what they want so how do you present that just to box you into a corner practically say to your father or your mother effectively you're saying I think what you did was wrong I don't like that way of parenting and I am doing this now the parents insist or the grandparents in this case insist no you should do it like this this is correct look what a wonderful person you turned out to be and you're trying to tell them no no you're wrong how do you do that in a sensitive way look it is it is definitely a challenge it is very delicate but the the way messages are communicated make a huge difference MH so if it's done in uh a situation where it's tense and there's it's argumentive and it's uh and it's uh sometimes downright rude that's you know there then there really is a very serious issue if however it's done um in in a in a very sensitive and a very decent way and this is out with great respect you but times have changed and you know give us the chance and we you know we doing this and we you know we we we uh take your advice but let us apply this I mean uh one of the classics uh which is a classic is issue um in today's day and age I'd say when um very often parents are much more Discerning in terms of nutrition aspects right right and um you know theyve got they've got certain principles of how they conduct the uh how they educating their children in terms of not eating junk Foods or you know minimizing sugar intake Etc which today there's research and there's a lot of you know the over um abuse of sugar and uh um sugar sugar sugared food stuffs um has adverse effect not just on the on the body it's on the mind it's a it's and today let's say you have Discerning parents who studied up this and who are concerned and and they've got they they've got a certain policy in the home right the treats that are very specific time and you know we don't just apply you with and in walk um the grandparents as a way of basically um uh luring the kids over to them get some candy it's Cy you know they in every pocket there's another delightful delicious looking forbidden treats um which are only um exclusively used for certain given times so this is a this is a real classic issue so now um at the time you know when it's actually happening there's no point in interceding only cre tremendous tension it will be insulting but there's no question that the young couple can um sit down with the parents and say look you know true we grew up healthy even though the fact that you know we were consuming vast amounts of chocolates and and candies Etc and we know we were too healthy individuals but we've decided we're taking a different kind of a policy um uh and please respect this please respect this um you know that uh that we are Discerning when we give treats we're Discerning with the kind of food Etc um so if they asking in a very kind in a very um sensitive manner most parents will go along with it I guess this could be extended to any kind of interpersonal relationship it's not necessarily what you say it's how you say it right absolutely absolutely I mean another classic is um there are today parents who are trying to be more Discerning um what exposures their children will have exposures of media right so um and they've got filters on on their their TV monitors and they've got filters on on on on on on on their technology that they're using and uh when they go and visit the grandparents you know they glue to a uh to to things that you know so again it's the Forbidden fruits and the children could be sometimes a little bit manipulative in the sense so again um the young couple have to communicate to their parents and say you know we've established the following policy in the home and please be asking you to respect this you know you know we don't want to have a confrontation in front of the children because we want the children to have tremendous love and respect and uh admiration for their grandparents so we asking in advance please these are our policies but the parents should be um uh the young couple should be um that they should be open and very upfront with their policies and it's on every possible front and to avoid at all costs um uh confrontations in front of the of the grandchildren that's that that's the worst thing because if the parents decide they're going to take a stand so the grandparents feel that the parents are being insulting to them and they're resting away so this all must be done up front so there is definitely a tremendous amount it doesn't just flow easily it's not it doesn't just laps into a natural flowing healthy kind of mode it's got to be um discussed it's got to be uh there's got to be frank discussions um um in these cases now there is unfortunately uh a whole situation where there's real um um disharmony between the young couple that they really you know things are not healthy in the marriage and in such a case so it depends where it's holding but the in general the parents should be encouraging this marriage as opposed to being again um diverse factors in other words in instead of the mother taking the position what he said that to you you mean he forces you to take out the garbage he does this or the other way around so again helpful Discerning grandparents um was say well let's try and understand it give help her with the strategy uh there's certain issues in the marriage which need sorting out so help them help your your your your child um to manage with the with her spouse or his spouse rather than try and be this diverse factor and and identifying you know oh oh my dear this is very serious you know are you sure you want to be in this marriage um that's something that um is a very last resort when parents notice and see that all the red lines have being crossed and and and there are the you know we've mentioned several times there are certain red lines which cannot be tolerated that's um a lack of loyalty within the marriage um that is anger or violence uh on an ongoing basis um and I say again things like substance abuse so here the child may be in need of real help and and here they have to be they have to be helpful they the help sometimes they should bring in professionals um you know we wouldn't be against them I mean we mentioned earlier therapy and you UND Denard a little bit that in a case where they're for one reason another uncomfortable talking to the parents or the parents don't feel they can be productive or it's just you know no one's going to go and I mean people not comfortable talking about certain things with their parents certain compatibility issues oh absolutely absolutely but it's got to be done carefully I mean All Therapy in general um you see the reason why I'm a little bit allergic to the term therapy because very often therapists have a real vested interest um they're getting paid very often serious money um for for their uh therapy and uh sometimes their the agenda the financial agenda the professional Financial agenda can sometimes be um um too too dominant um and uh so therefore I I say be wary about that so therapist would say maybe unsurprisingly given the agenda you just mentioned but a therapist would say a healthy couple should come and see me this will be a prophylactic therapy you know before before the issues developed would you agree with that or is that just another money-making scheme pretty much so I think that a tremendous amount of energies have to be poured into a couple before marriage and they need to go to real adequate um training um and it can continue after marriage this counseling either by parents or in lie of parents where's this training that you're speaking of I mean if if therapists are not the the destination okay so you see the word therapist implies um uh someone's ailing or sick and you need therapy um I would rather I would prefer the term counselors or uh marriage en enhancement uh um um advice Etc but there's no question a couple have to be adequately prepared for marriage even if the couple have have a long-term relationship when they're going into marriage there's a new Dynamic that sets in and and and they need to be adequately prepared so premarital counseling for sure that's something absolutely absolutely absolutely um from a Jewish perspective there are laws governing a Jewish marriage um and these laws have to be studied these laws have to be understood um and therefore the young lady and the young man need to be coached and and and and guided um into um how to conduct themselves as in in marriage um I would say it's pretty safe to say that if there really is adequate guidance and professional um coaching in advance of a marriage um it will preempt a tremendous amount of uh of issues now this premarital coach very often can be someone who the couple can turn to in times of need um if they feel that they can't turn to a parent and that that's it's not the parent may not be objective um they they can't reach a consensus as to whether they should turn to parents so they can go back to their respective coaches or they can agree on someone to help them along they can even bring their parents into the issue especially if they want their parents to put the bow financially but they can bring us say you know look we're going through certain issues and we think it's going to it's it's it's it might be helpful for us uh just to get some some counseling but again uh it's become so um so popular this issue of um of therapy and therapy has to be taken with a um with a pinch of salt you know to go for a one-time consultation or one or two or three times consultation that's one thing but this long ongoing therapy is something which uh um sometimes becomes even counterproductive sometimes it becomes something that um the couple uh get uh hooked onto and they and they they they they need it and that's that's introducing another element into the marriage which is not always healthy sometimes there is a need for it and sometimes one of the couple you know one of the um the spous hous may feel that there is this need so again it's it's all uh it's a function of who the counselor is what is the level of the Integrity of the counselor and I say level of Integrity he might be a professional but if he has and he has a vested interest in long-term counseling because it's a good paying client it's long-term you know so he has a vested interest so these are variables there's no Harden fast um um principle over here and as we have said um sometimes it just can't be the parent because the the couple just don't feel that the parent they feel the parents may get too emotionally involved the parents might be um might be one-sided in their in their in their counseling so this is a very complex issue this is definitely a complex issue you know so we've touched upon the financial issues the financial dependency that's uh definitely something that Discerning parents will help but um will not attach strings they will they'll keep a certain distance they'll help because they feel they need to help but I think that when parents are offering financial help and they feel well I'm buying my way into this um marriage by my financial help and therefore I've got an opinion and I'm going to call the shots that's not a healthy thing that's not a healthy thing it will not allow the couple to develop as their own entity and the principle that is that a couple must become an independent healthy wholesome entity in its own right and um wherever this entity need here and there advice counseling love um encouragement that's fine but not that it becomes something inherent in their marriage that you've introduced into the marriage another whole um complication so mom-in-law dad-in-law your advice is welcome but uh maybe try and uh not impinge too much on the couple and the couple when you have something to say to Mom mom-in-law and and dad-in-law maybe try and say it with a little bit of sensitivity thank [Music] you