The Grim Reality of Chinuch Income

I never made it from paycheck to paycheck. I never made [clears throat] it unless I got a tax refund, you know, I mean, or unless somebody generous over the years gave me something, but I'm talking about just paychecks, I never made it to the end of the paycheck. >> There are a lot of them that don't make more than $200,000 a year, and they don't get Haz de life. To say that every rabbi in America gets $100,000, I don't know what to do with that. >> Welcome to the Learning Curve Podcast, brought to you by Mishpacha Magazine. >> We're raising [music] children in a changing and challenging world. >> So, let's tackle the important issues facing [music] families today. >> I'm Rabbi Yisroel Garfield, Menahel of Yeshiva Toras Emes in Houston, and I love talking about chinuch. >> I'm Rabbi Ari Schonfeld, Menahel of Yeshiva Ketana of Manhattan, Rosh Mesivta of Bais Sipora of Manhattan, >> [music] >> director of Camp Achei, I also love talking chinuch, and of course, a little bit of fishing. >> Join us as we answer your questions and discuss the topics that matter to parents the most. >> This episode of the Learning Curve Podcast is sponsored by Israel Bookshop Publications, bringing you some of the most meaningful, engaging Jewish books for every member of the family. Here's a small sampling of some new books out for the season. There will be 30 to 40 new Israel Bookshop titles in Mitziat Hashem by the time Yom Tov rolls around. Let's start with the kids. The newest installment of the beloved Middos Town series of books and audio introduces the unforgettable character Mr. Mussar and Mr. Tzaflegen, joining Mr. Zores and Mr. Shlepper, Mr. Sameach, Mr. Kvetch, Mr. Farginer, and Mr. Makana, and you can kind of get the point. A fun and powerful way to help children internalize the Middos and character traits that shape a life of Torah. The Adventures of Pickle Boy by the mysterious author Yaakov B, already a massive audio hit with over 8 million streams on 24/6 and tens of thousands of listening hours on Nachi Audio. It's a thrilling action-packed adventure about an ordinary Brooklyn boy who discovers superpower-inducing pickle juice hidden in his basement. Between fighting bullies and bank robbers, it teaches a powerful lesson about us using the special abilities Hashem gives us to help others. Now it's finally available in book form with brand new content never heard before. And don't miss a truly remarkable new adult book Blow My Mind the unforgettable account of a young mother who suffers a sudden devastating stroke and her relentless journey of courage and munah, humor, and determination to reclaim her life and family. We all go through struggles and nisyonos in life, and to hear a first-hand account from a woman who went through a tremendous nisayon herself is truly inspiring. All of these titles and many more are available now from Israel Bookshop Publications wherever Jewish books are sold. Get your copies today. Bruchim haba'im and welcome back to another episode of The Learning Curve episode number 11 in season 3 as we approach the Yom Tov of Pesach. Rabbi Garfield, how are you? >> I love from Purim to Pesach and then like you slide right home. >> Slide, dive, stumble, however it is. No, it's Baruch Hashem, it's an exciting time. We have housekeeping before we continue. I like being factually correct, and I mistakenly left out an episode or two ago when I was discussing the Hashgacha Manhigus conference in Houston, and I was we were giving credit or just describing all the different places that were in Houston, I mistakenly left out South Bend, Indiana. So, I wanted to make sure I get that on the record that South Bend also joined our call. >> for a while, right? I'm sure that community's been around many years, so. >> Yeah, they've been around for quite a while. Baruch Hashem. We have some We have South Bend yeshivas in my yeshiva. The Gendler family, one of them he asked him, I think of South Bend, have a grandchild in my yeshiva in Manhattan. So, Baruch Hashem. Speaking of previous episodes, I have to share with you to me a an amazing story. We discussed the Super Bowl, right after the Super Bowl aired, the Super Bowl shaila about whether you should incentivize an eighth grader not to join the Super Bowl. And I want to share a follow-up to that cuz I think it's just important and I would say a I'm very meaningful story. So, a rebbe shared with me he heard the episode and he said to me, "I want to tell you my Super Bowl story." Ooh la la, it's going to be a little different than I think the audience is ready for. He said he was learning in first year base medrash. This rebbe is from Baltimore. So, just set the scene, he's from Baltimore, he's a big Baltimore Ravens fan. And in the early 2010s, 2012, I think, in that area, the Baltimore Ravens >> I don't even know >> Something like that. The Ravens made the Super Bowl, which again, for him, was a very big deal. First year base medrash. He was in a yeshiva and he said he was planning on watching the Super Bowl. Now, it's not in Eretz Yisrael where it's 1:00 in the morning, it's night seder. He didn't care. He was watching the Super Bowl. His rebbe told me the name. His rebbe was a Yid from Yamin Kaplan, who's the brother of Reb Tzvi Kaplan in Eretz Yisrael, Rosh Yeshiva. He has a brother Reb Avraham Kaplan, a very chashuve rebbe in Queens in Our Chaim. His rebbe calls him over and he says to me and he says to him, this rebbe told me the story. Rebbe calls him over as a bochur and he says, "If you have any thought to not watch the Super Bowl Sunday night, I'm going to throw you out of yeshiva." >> Talk about speechless. Yeah. >> He's like, "Excuse my?" He says, "I'm going to say it again. If you have any sad, any thought not to watch the Super Bowl, I will throw you out of Yeshiva. If you're upset that you're missing night seder, learn extra over Shabbos. Learn Sunday during lunch break. And >> Wow. >> you're watching that game. And he said to the Rebbe, "First of all, I don't I did not have a sad not to watch the game at that point in my life. And he said to me, "I watched the game. And I think he said he hasn't watched the game since or he hasn't watched the game in a bunch of years. He's currently a Rebbe, right? So obviously he's changed a lot since then. He told me that it was the one of the most impactful moments of his chinuch years of of education in Yeshiva. And I said to him, "Casually, what was so amazing about the story?" And he said, "Here I was a fledgling that struggling but you know, regular guy. A typical first year boys metered guy that hadn't hit his second gear yet. And as opposed to trying to convince me to do something that I wasn't ready for. And he could have probably scared me or incentivized me maybe not to watch the ball which I wasn't ready for yet and I would have not watched the game and felt guilty and angry the next morning. He said, "I never in my life felt a Rebbe get me as much as Rabbi Kaplan got me in that moment. He met me where I was head on. It was such a a deep connection. Wow, this Rebbe gets me. And I watched the Super Bowl. I watched it but I felt the Rebbe got me and it allowed me to be open to him and to his Torah. Sometimes we have to stop trying to fix everybody all at once. Was my takeaway. I just had an amazing story of from a chanichim too. I'm not saying that we shouldn't try to get first year boys metered guys to I'm not not to miss night seder to watch Super Bowl but it's just keep that in mind in general. It's like we try so hard to fix everybody. Loosen up. >> I hear you. >> Stop fixing. >> I would say not in contradiction to what you're saying. But there were I remember in Houston we have a night seder but for the eighth grade boys and I'm going to say something and I'm going to please try to control yourself when I say what I'm about to say. Get ready. But, the Astros have been in the World Series a number of times since I've been a man out here in Houston. And one of the times that they were in both times actually, it's not Hold it in. It's over multiple night seders. It's not just a one game thing. And >> It's baseball. It's baseball. It's every night. >> I've always been impressed. I also always felt We never said anything to the boys. In fact, the whole night seder is optional anyway. It's not a here to come to night seder. But, I always am so in this ball. I think it's a real hisuk for them, the ones that come, that they make a real statement to each other, to the community. It was a real We celebrated I remember we we made a whole thing out of it. It might even been in Mishpacha magazine a picture of them tak. I remember now. Like of the bachum learning during the Super Bowl could be. >> During the World Can I tell you the beautifulness of it and why that's different than our rebbe email, not to bash the rebbe who who I spoke to afterwards and we ended up in bash costume. There wasn't a night seder that you said, "Hey, the Astros are making the World Series. Let's make a night seder so they shouldn't watch the World Series." That was Bobby's world learning. A little bit of a yetzer hara jumped on their lap called the Astros and they say, "No, we're going to keep learning." Gorgeous. You see the difference? >> 100%. I'm just I'm just saying the same way that that this story you told, the bachur watching it it helped facilitate his ruchniyus. So, there are times and that's the when not watching it also is one's ruchniyus where you feel, "Wow, I'm statement." >> And we're we're obviously discussing sports now, but this is sports is just a mashal to any moment of where we want our children to grow up, to outgrow something. Could be a video game, it could be a a movie, or could just be could be anything. Skiing that Yeah, I I too often as parents and as mechanechum, we want to play hero ball and we want to fix everything right now. And by and large, I have a good friend that has a slogan that says >> construction I have a construction site. >> No, children are good. >> All the years there's a construction site. spiel >> No, the construction site is a good one. No, children are good and if they're not being good, there's a reason for it and it's our job as adults to find that reason to help them, but most of the time they'll figure it out. All right. >> Speaking of figuring out >> am I asking you? I forgot to do this first here. First question I am asking you. The second question you're asking me and then we get to a unique guest tonight with us got a very unique, so unique we don't even know who he is. Something that we've never done before and for obvious reasons which we'll explain soon. So here we go, question number one. Dear TLC, maybe this is the shortest question we've ever gotten, but let's see. When my teenager is looking to convince my wife about something she's already said no to, he often comes to me to ask me to intervene. How should I handle this? And the answer cannot be loud as ask a big Garfield like my daughter as we said sometimes does. >> Very smart daughter, you have. >> I like this thing that Garfield versus Schonfeld thing. On Purim I had a bunch of bochurs from a lot of yeshivas come to my apartment, a lot. And they like trying to curry favor. We like you much better than Garfield. >> That's [clears throat] great. I love it. I love it. >> They know how to curry favor. >> I know that. Anyway, you have smart you have smart dummies even over there for goodness sake. >> All right, listen. >> Obvious, this is in a way a softball. I'll try to I'll try to give it a little meat, but there's no way a father should be undermining the wife in any way. Of course, if he agrees, so it's poshut. That's not the shaila. If he agrees with the wife's sak, so then for states he just says, "Listen, your mother already said it, end of story." And you agree. What if you don't agree? Obviously, you're not going to say to the kid, "You're taka right." You could say, "Let's go to Mommy together or let me discuss with her privately or let's discuss I don't know or even be quiet. >> So you will say that? You won't just emphatically said Mommy said no and I'm sticking up for him. Like you'll allow him to reopen the case? >> I would say it depends on the situation. It's hard to it's hard to say. But if let's say you as a parent agree. So you want to say you should shut it down and then talk to the wife privately and then she could be the one. I don't have a problem with that. I guess it depends on the dynamic in the house. If it's kind of thing where, you know, for whatever reason that is considered a big and covered and I'm not judging. I'm just saying I think in my house it would be a little looser in that way where it's okay to say I'm going to have a conversation with Mommy. That wouldn't be an undermining kind of thing or coach the kid in how to like say what are you trying to say? Maybe they didn't understand it depending on the situation. >> How does it not undermine like the Gamara discusses once you ask a psak that you can't go to another besdin. That your son or daughter goes to your wife and asks her, I don't know, could I stay out late tonight or could I have the could I could I get this, whatever it is, you know, I'll buy this. And she says no. And then she goes to you. How do you have a conversation with your son or daughter without undermining >> I'd say Mommy already said you that's it. 11, it's over. Why would I get it's over? What are you talking about? But what if it's something substantive that you talk and disagree with? I guess as we're talking I would say I agree. I guess it's always good to save face in the moment. There's no value in in giving any validity to that unless it's a crazy situation which you have other problems if that's the case. As we're talking about it I and I appreciate the listeners giving me a chance to develop my thoughts to say you really gain nothing by saying to the kid anything but Mommy said no and it's a no. But let me say there's no reason you can't have a different opinion. You can have a discussion behind closed doors and explore it. Is there any wisdom in that? That seems so passive. I don't know. Is there any wisdom in that? >> No, I also think it's okay for kids to hear. Maybe it's maybe the male in me thinks that it's more important one way or the other if it's the if it's the father or they went to the mother, she says no, and then you go to the father. I think it's okay for the son or daughter to hear from me that I'm supporting Mommy in her decision. In other words, it doesn't I might even lay away whatever he wants or she wants to go with whatever it is. I don't want to give them a shalom bayit shalom but what it means to have a good marriage. But, Mommy made a decision and to me that's enough. I don't have to even hear that's all. I don't mean to shut them down. I don't mind listening to you but to me almost tell them as a husband and as someone and when Mommy makes a decision and Mommy says something to you then to me that's enough. That's like me speaking. >> I don't know. This is an interesting question. I don't know. I don't want to say I disagree cuz I feel like I'll be lambasted by the the more conservative family structure people, but I'm not sure that's what I would want my wife to do about me. Meaning if I said to my kids, I want you home at 11. I may feel they have a valid reason and I'm not listening to them. And they went to my wife. I wouldn't have a problem. I'm just talking for me. And maybe I'm totally crazy and we've established that. So, no need to write letters that I'm a lunatic. >> I've said nothing. I will neither confirm nor deny. >> "Taco, let me understand what you're saying." And they explain why la la la the things aren't over till 11:15. >> And they told you why they went to you went to you went to Mommy. >> that the whole party's not over till 11:15. By the time I get home it's going to be 11:26. I can't be home by 11, but he's not listening. I don't know what to do. Now, if Mommy then says >> Oh, now Like you could you just add you just added a caveat which is >> The child is coming to you Mommy what's good. >> wouldn't even listen. You said, "Mommy said, I don't have to hear 11:26." That's what you said. >> So, no so the caveat is what happens if this is like a it's like a shalom bayit shalom, right? What happens if the child says, "Daddy said no, but he didn't understand." >> they say that. >> Right, that's what you're saying. So then the child >> What's the other angle? That's the angle they always say that. He didn't listen to me. >> He didn't understand. >> Whatever Mommy said is what Daddy said it, and that's it. I don't want to hear it. It's a non-starter. So I don't know if I expect that from my wife. Maybe she would want that from me. I don't know. I mean >> So that's why to me there's really like everything is I wish we had more details in this case. If it's Can I go to my friend's house? Mommy says no, but I really want to. >> Yeah. >> Right, that's one question. But your question is, "Can I stay out till 11?" And Daddy says no, but he doesn't realize that then I can't go to the game and he won't let me He won't let me explain it. I think that's different. >> I have to stand up for the covenant of the other person. I don't care. Unless someone's life is in danger, even if they're wrong, I don't care. You have to stand up for the honor of the parent. >> Yes, I'm not here to I'm not here I'm not here to I I want to have to unpack our own marriages and our relationships with our wives. That's not what this podcast is about. I refuse to discuss that. >> You have to stand up for the honor. >> it would not bother me what or I don't think it'd bother my wife one way or the other if that was the conversation. If it was, "I tried to explain it to Mommy or Abba, he didn't understand and he was too busy or he didn't want to I think that there's room for that. >> angle. They're not coming to you style. Usually they're coming with a the problem. >> Right, that's where your shikul hadaas comes in. So again, I'll leave you the final word, Rabbi Garfinkel. Does it depend? >> It depends on a lot of things, like everything, but I'm responding to what you said, not to hold you to what you said cuz we've evolved in our conversation. >> No, so I'm pulling back a little. I'm pulling back a little. Yeah. I'm pulling back a little that I do think it depends. I think you have to use your shikul hadaas. There are certain times where it's a it's an objective thing. A pair of shoes. You want it. Your mother doesn't think it's good it's proper and right? I think there are certain things that as a father and as a husband I would definitely just automatically stand up for my wife, and I think it's wonderful for the kids to see that. The nuanced case is where you think your mother is misunderstanding. She doesn't understand yeshiva guys. Your father doesn't understand what girls are, and he doesn't understand. Could you asking the mother for help in in contextualizing something to the father? I'm giving aces to teenagers, basically. Here's the advice, guys. If you want to be able to ask the question in a way that maybe your mother or father will be able to re-litigate, don't come in and say, "I want it." He said, "No. Explain where their hisaron is, what they're missing." I think that allows the parent to reopen the case and re-litigate without >> I imagine that there'll be listeners in two different camps. One group is going to say, "What they're saying is so pushit. I don't know why it's on a podcast." And the other people are going to say, "What they're saying is so pushit wrong. I don't know why they're on a pod- Of you can't listen to the other person. Of course not. You support the parent." So, >> Right. >> you know, to group A and group B, I >> I'm saying >> both of you. I'm so sorry. >> Wonderful. Okay. Wow, that's what a way to start out. >> I'm so sorry we wasted your time. Okay. Now, I would like to ask you I would like to ask you a question. Dear TLC, does a rebbe or menahel have a right to look through my boys' drawers? Wow. I had this with my son's yeshiva when the menahel used to walk around the dorms during seder and check the boys' drawers and cubbies. I thought this was a huge breach of privacy. A talmid's desk, cubby drawers is private space. Besides that, it shows that you don't trust the talmid. The same would apply to a parent looking through their child's drawers. I never checked my son's drawers, etc. It ends with I guess I'll go back to the first sentence. Does a rebbe or menahel have a right to look through a boy's drawers? >> A parent. So, I have parents who will wonder if it's okay for them to check on their kids' emails. A lot of parents have those settings on their computers. It's similar, right? It's the same It's the same type of question. So, I think he has a real point, this person, and that is for a menahel to or rebbe to randomly go through the drawers and to look for something for a child. And I let's go back. Let's try to be as innocuous as possible. Radios back in the '90s, right? When we try to hide radios in Yeshiva, and they would be a dorm bust, right? So, I have to say that doesn't bother me. In other words, there's a certain expectation and almost an unwritten rule that if you're in a dorm, you're subject to search. And the mashgiach I'm I'm not going through with mashgiach and whether they usually are right, usually are wrong, but there is a concept of a mashgiach having the authority and the right to look for contraband that's illegal in Yeshiva. And it's not just a distrust of you. It's almost part of the back and forth. Hide it better next time. So, I I think the etzem or conceptually, I don't think it has to create distrust in that scenario. However, if you walk in to your dorm room and randomly your rebbe is there going through your stuff, right? First of all, besides the creepiness of it, and because of because someone told me that you're hiding cigarettes, right? Or an iPad in your room, that's not okay. That's not okay. And I think it matters. I think the storyline matters. >> there? That he got caught, not that you were checking. Is that right? >> That's not okay. What's the issue? >> he got caught or that he was checking or that he got caught? >> But you just said you're allowed to check. >> No, as I'm saying, there are certain things that are built in to the system that we check. >> check for radios. You can't check for cigarettes? >> No, and my point is that you the mashgiach will go through two or three times a zman and check through this everyone's stuff to make sure there's nothing illegal in Yeshiva. That is built into the system, so a part of it is a little bit yeah, we don't trust everybody. We're afraid that bachurim are going to bring things in inappropriate or illegal into the That's built into the system. It's not an attack on me. But if a rebbe randomly on a Tuesday somehow tells him, "By the way, >> Uh-huh. >> Correct. Shawnfeld has something in his dorm and he goes into my room and checks my drawers. I think that's inappropriate. Now, what should the rebbe do? That's a big sugia. A kid tells the rebbe that that Shawnfeld has a radio in his dorm or whatever. And the rebbe feels like he has a right. And and he want You know, by the way, speaking of just on an addendum, Knicks-Pacers game five, I think, fourth quarter. After night seder, after night seder, fourth quarter. >> Oh. It was two. >> It was Yeah, it was the year they won. The Knicks won. The Knicks won. No, they won that year. And Larry Johnson a four-point play, fine. So, anyways, I was listening to the game with Akiva Reich. If you're out there listening, Akiva Reich, I had the one headphone on one ear and he had it on the other. Listen to the fourth quarter. And our mashgiach, Naftali Roberts, the older mashgiach, um bust us right behind right out right. So, I had a little bit of azus, and I baruch Hashem all the azus is gone since then. He took it away from me. And I said, "Mask him. I shouldn't have had it in Yeshiva. Before you like writ me and I steer it to be a big entire Can I ask you one question? When you were in 11th grade, you never listened to the Yankees or the Knicks in Yeshiva? Like I know that I was trying to tell him I shouldn't have had it. It's against the rules. It's the playoffs and I broke in a radio and I listened to >> Oh. >> He gave it back to me 2 weeks later. Like he didn't and I didn't get in trouble from the Yeshiva because But my point is that So, if there's something really bad that rebbe wants, I think a rebbe then just like calls over the bochur and says, "Now, bochur is not going to admit to it. I heard you have a an iPhone in Yeshiva." And now the rebbe has to really See, this is the thing. Sometimes the bayis will just go randomly. I I've heard it from a few sources, "Hey, but I do you." And the answer is, of course, no, right? Now, this is, of course, what type of guy is there trust issues with the kid before in the past. I'm going to have to search your stuff. I have two and it has to be like a warrant. I'm not saying it's going to end well, but if you explain, I understand you don't want me to, but I've had too many boys. And I was like, "It can't just be cuz you heard a rumor." I have a couple of boys telling me that you're at night up at night in the dorm on your phone and it's really being mazikish but that's why this is >> I have a really hard time with this. This is hard. >> Yeah. >> I'm going to have a hard I I'm going to have to search your stuff. >> It's like a warrant. It's a warrant. >> that end up? >> words, if you have a warrant >> Like think big picture long term. How do you put that relationship back together again? >> I have to get that iPad that iPhone out of his shippa. >> What kind of job are you doing with the comedy who's doing that? What does it tell you about, let's say you couldn't, what would you do? Let's say you couldn't get the iPad. Let's say you couldn't get to the iPad. What would you do? Let's say you couldn't for whatever reason. Would you fight? You couldn't go take it. You couldn't go into his room. He lived at home. You couldn't go. So you'd have to be makazik him. You'd have to encourage him in other ways. You'd have to inspire him. You'd have to find ways to do it. Right? Because >> No, but I have other but again, that's why here at I have other boys here that are struggling like and I'm explaining to me this is a real extreme case. I have other boys that are complaining. So in other words, overall as a parent of the emails, yes, if you have a 13 16-year-old son and you're snooping in on his emails without him knowing, that's a problem. That's a big problem. However, I know plenty of parents that when they give their email to the son, they let him know that I'm giving you something I think that's a little bit of a high level of a freedom or to and I want the right to be able to check in on it. And build in that ability to be able to check in on him. I don't know what happens. I have I don't have that in my home. My children, I think they have emails, but we're not really such they're not we don't because they're not email kids. At least I think. Do I go through my kids' drawers? No. Not that I'm not definitely not on a podcast. But I don't think by the way, I don't think my kids at home if I I guess if I was looking through his if I was looking I was accusing my son for having something and then I found it in his drawer. I don't know. I don't know. It's hard for me to imagine. Baruch Hashem, my kids are so beautiful and so amazing. It's hard for me to imagine. So, in your mind, Reb Garfinkel, so you think there's no such concept ever? >> Only like secondary day law, and you'd have to be I mean, basically what you're doing is >> How about my mashgiach? How about that that like standard? >> I don't know. I love it. I listen, I'm not a mashgiach for dorms, so I'm not going to judge that much. I was a ninth grade rebbe. >> Got to got to get rid of the beer. >> I wasn't I didn't have a very traumatic experience as a menahel. I was the assistant menahel in high school, and there was a lot of drinking going on, and we knew it. And Friday night, I remember this is really traumatic for me. The menahel couldn't come on the Shabbaton. It was just me. I was the senior. And what happened was, this kid got Friday night by the oneg, a few 12th graders. I was a ninth grade rebbe. But, I was the type of ninth grade rebbe that got up very much in touch with the kids, especially the ones from for drinking throughout high school. So, one time with the guy that I invested four years in, like real four years, came drunk. And like to the oneg, and I'm like, I can't have this. And we're And it was in another community. I just It was just I said I'm I said to the kid, "I'm going to the dorm, and I'm going to have to go through your stuff and take out the beer. I'm going to have to." I was all horrible. And he was He was so upset at me. He was drunk, so he was exceptionally expressive in his concern. >> Right. >> And but I remember, this is interesting shaila. I went to the house where he was staying, and I found, I don't know, 24 bottles of beer. What am I supposed to do? So, I poured it down the sink. Then, I have 24 bottles of beer. I can't put it in the house. Can't put it in the house. Garbage >> Garbage can. >> So, I'm going to try to Then, it was worse. And I I felt And I'm not sure I hope I did the right thing. I always suspected that this guy had a fake ID, cuz how was he getting this much alcohol? He was 17. And I was like I saw his wallet there. On Friday night. >> On Shabbos. >> And I checked it. I checked it and I found the fake ID and I took it. >> Okay. You're the you're the king. You're the king. Yeah. >> a lot of people getting drunk. A young kid. Now this is the I never told him that I took it. >> you do? >> I never said a word. >> You took the ID. >> the ID. >> And the alcohol. >> But I never said to him I took your ID. What's he going to come to me? Where's my fake ID? Like he's not going to and I never turned him in. I didn't go to the menahel and say I got the fake ID. I just like that part I never exposed till today. It was like 20 years ago. So I think it's safe. But I remember like the internal I knew I destroyed my relationship with him. It was it. That was it. Yes. Yes, I'm repentant. Did it to this day. If you're listening >> Because why? Because you spilled out the beer or maybe because he was so embarrassed to walk in. >> what he considered the the standards of our relationship and I did. And I only did it cuz I was the menahel of that and the drinking it was just a problem, you know, it was a serious I thought they had to do it. But it did violate it and in retrospect I don't know if it was the right thing. I hope I have a son will be okay. I don't know. But lemitsa all I'm saying is it's a last ditch and I can't imagine a culture where that's normal. Like how could that be a healthy culture where that's a normative practice? I just I have a hard time. Now you went to Yeshivas I didn't go to maybe it's okay. I don't know. But I'm just saying >> I as I as I said I think there are two types. There's the standard mashgiach like search which I think doesn't create distrust because it's almost it's part of the course. It happens it all happens and I'm not saying I don't know if it still happens in a lot of Yeshivas today but I think that especially before Purim and before Parshas Zachor they're going to go through the fridges and the right happens in camp also, right? >> It's a public thing. >> So I don't know what do they go through. I yeah, but I will say this. But big picture standard for a rebbe to go through a fifth grader's drawer, to go through a kid's drawer just because you suspect something without telling the kid beforehand, without going through it. Yes, I think that creates nothing then distrust. As you said, if you have a kid that you really have real aidos and real hashish, not just there that he has something in the dorm or in his desk in Yeshiva. Guy says, "Rebbe, he has a pocketknife. He's a fifth grader. Rebbe, Yanky has a pocketknife in his drawer." "Yanky, empty your drawer, please." You think that's I don't think that's I don't think that's hard. >> Well, let me go back to my case for a second as I'm thinking about it now. Like, what would have happened if I wouldn't have done anything? Okay, they would have got >> Yeah, I think you taking the ID, by the way, was not necessary. >> wanted to stop other kids. They were drinking. It wasn't just Friday night. It was an ongoing issue in the Yeshiva. In the dorm, they were always getting drunk. Where are they getting the alcohol from? That was my husband. >> Right. >> I didn't care about the ID. Oh, yeah. >> You want to go back to that anyone? >> retrospect, so now I severed my relationship with this kid and I was he was a complicated kid and I was one of the only rebbeim. It was really makushin. >> You have a tzibur to worry about. >> what would have happened to the tzibur? Really, what would have happened already? So, they would have gotten drunk a little more. >> Right. Okay. >> did I do? I severed a real relationship. I'm just saying, maybe it's not worth it. My my reaction here >> We never know for sure. >> Going through people's things is such a violation, generally speaking. A violation of the basic relationship. It's very hard for me to imagine. >> Well, let me ask you through you're fifth grade rebbe and "Rebbe, Yanky has a pocketknife in his drawer in his desk." And he's And he was waving at us. "Yanky, you have what?" "I do not." "I do not." "Yes, he does." Two boys. "Yes, he does." You don't think the rebbe could say to him, "Yanky, please please uncover your desk." I'm not saying in public. There's three boys in the room. There's no one else. >> to find a way to do it that maintains the dignity of that relationship. You want me I can come up with some creative ways on the spot if you like. I could have the boys leave. Okay, first of all, I could say, "Yanky, what would you do if you were in my position?" You have two re- two people who came and say that what would you think is my responsibility to these What do you want me to do? What do you think is right? How can we resolve this? You know what I'm saying? I don't know. Maybe try to find a way because if you do it I would trust him. I would trust that kid. Again, if you know what age he is. Yeah, but that's a good point. Should we ask a third person? Is there someone in the world who whose opinion you respect? Your fourth-grade rabbi, your third-grade rabbi, Aaron Twerski. I heard he's a real chacham. Let's call him and ask him what he thinks we should do. >> Because I don't want to embarrass you. Meaning you want at the end of the day not to open that drawer with the understanding that you almost have the right to. >> violate the religion. Listen, Yanky, I would love not to do it. I don't want to do it, but I feel responsible. Should I call my boss? Should I call my mother? Should we call Chaim Kanievsky? You tell me. What do you want to do? But I can't just leave it. I have two kids saying this in life here. So, what do we The point is to say that's just a creative side thing, but we got to find a way to maintain that dignity cuz in the end of the day it's that relationship and that dignity that you build Torah on. And if you violate it, there's not a lot there left. >> Beautiful. And we've had two questions so far in this podcast that have been very It probably took us a while to unpack and get there. All right. So, now we move to our spotlight question. And it's I want to read the question first and then discuss what we're going to do. So, here's the question. Dear TLC, I would like to address one thing Rabbi Schonfeld said in a recent episode. You said you would never recommend this line of work, being a rabbi, to someone due to the financial pressures involved. Now, it didn't It was a snippet and quote. What I said was I wouldn't feel that I have the responsibility to tell someone to go into chinuch. I'm not paying your bills and the financial pressure is tremendous. But okay, fine. I assume you'll get flak for saying that. I did. Certain people came over to me and thought it was horrible that I said that. I want to tell you that I share this feeling with you. I am a rebbe myself. I love my job. I feel like I was born to do this. I wonder why I waited so long to start. I am in my second year of teaching, yet I could never in good conscience recommend this to anyone. When I was offered the job and found out how much I'd be paid, I was shaken to the core. For a few days I walked around almost in a daze, turning numbers over in my mind, writing out budgets on paper. My wife and I decided to go for it mainly because we had another source of money. I assume you'll get negative feedback. Ask anyone who disagrees with you how old they are and how long ago they went into chinuch. With interest rates much higher now than they were just a few years ago and the general rise in cost of living, it is dramatically more difficult to make it work today than it used to be. I believe that it is almost impossible for anyone to do this unless they have a significant other source of money. For a long time it has been thought of by many as a privilege to teach and help raise the next generation of erliche yidden. I believe it is no longer simply a privilege, it has become a luxury, not a feasible option for the masses. I hope there are enough wealthy people out there who decide to spend their money on this luxury as opposed to all the extravagances that are being pursued all around us. Thank you and keep up the great work. So this is from a rebbe who is describing the shock and the daze that he got in in when he first started and Rebbe Garfield, we're both menahelim, which means our pay scale is different than rabbaim, but we both started out as rabbaim. I don't know if I should share how much we made as a rebbe, but it definitely I will tell you that a friend of mine recently that I told that I've done a lot of research. Most rabbaim, the general area of they've been a rebbe for 3-4 years, I'm being about as general as possible, make 60,000 65,000, 50,000. High end, they'll make 70,000 after a long time. Maybe 80, like quote. The friends that I say this to do not believe me. They what do you mean? 60,000? That's that that's what a secretary makes. So, what we want to do tonight is speak to someone who's in the field. Speak to someone who's been a rebbe and let's see what he has to say. Reb Garfield, as we mentioned, tonight's episode is a little unique in that we are inviting a guest that we agreed would stay anonymous. He's a rebbe in the United States of America. And cuz we what we really want to do is find out what it means to be a rebbe. What it means to be a rebbe financially, what it means for your family, what it means for your day-to-day life, what it what is it about being a rebbe? So, rebbe, brocha u'bracha. >> Thank you. Happy to be here. >> face and in the voice of >> First of all, thank you for all of Claudia's room. >> Hopefully hopefully >> Yeah, so I >> Well, I feel the weight. I feel the weight, rebbe. Yeah. >> It's a brave thing that you're doing. You're you're discussing your life with us. Thank you. So, let's really start I mean, I'm not going to ask you obviously too many personal things cuz we don't want to go into witness protection. Why did you go into chinuch? When did you go into chinuch? Talk to us your career. >> Did you know? Was it planned out? Or did it just happen? >> Okay. Okay. I have to obviously I have to talk general because again, I don't think it's fair for the uh for the for my family, for the mice that I work for if if this sensitive conversation gets traced back. We'll talk general. I went into chinuch because I had no other job and I figured it was a get-rich-quick type of uh career. >> And Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, no, that's the wrong script. Sorry. Take two. This is not live, is it? Okay. Seriously, though. >> rebbe. I went into chinuch. >> Yeah, yeah. I love it. Love it. >> I went into chinuch because from a young age, I would say already from when I was in mesivta, for sure base medrash, I felt that this was my calling. My father was in chinuch. That's That was not what really must have had some type of influence in my life, but I don't think that's really what influenced. I just always found fulfillment in learning with people, being mashpia on people. Even when I was a bochur, I I was involved very involved with Pirchei where I grew up, and it was something that I always felt that this was me. I would say like all the When I need friends now, many years later, nobody's surprised that I'm a ready. Oh, he's a ready. Like, well, we never would have thought that. So, I I knew that I had it in me. I had the passion for it, and it was something that I guess it was a pretty easy decision for me to go into >> cheshbon going into the chinuch what it would mean financially for you? Like >> No. No. Let me explain that. Today, you know, baruch Hashem, I'm married. I'm going to say not to not to I'm going to say 20 plus. Is that fair? >> Fair. 20 20 plus in the classroom day in, day out. Baruch Hashem, alavai I don't may have esrog. They don't throw me out of my head by the time I turn 65. But I'll say like this. A couple today gets married, and everybody wants to spend the first few years in kolel, and everybody talks the talk. We know that when you're in kolel, it's going to be hard, and you're going to have to live Oh, you're going to have to live crunched, and you're not going to be able to just swipe your parents' credit card, but we're ready to do it. Do the newly chosson kallah, the newly the the new couple, do they really know what they're getting into? No. Well, they know it's going to take some sacrifice. Do they know what amount of sacrifice it's going to take? Do they know that? Maybe in in in or two down the line, you're going to have to think three times before you buy a coffee or you're going to have to think before you want to go out to eat with your wife. They don't know those realities. So, it's a general it's a general commitment. I know I'm going to have to struggle. I know it's not going to be easy. I know I'm going to have to come on to other people, but that's how we'll figure it out. I hear that by the first time I'm married kids, we'll figure it out. I I I went to kind of with that same mindset. I was never somebody that really knew how to crunch numbers, but it was no secret that the rebellion, at least then, when I was a blocker and when I was in the Monroe Bayon were on the bottom of the pay scale. So, I knew that going into would be tight. >> money to help you? >> Zero. Zero. Now again, I'm never wanting to be an ingrate, right? So, the answer is that my parents and my in-laws, they in in back in early days they tried to help. When I was when I'll give you a muscle, when I was learning in coil, so between what my parents and my in-laws gave me and they were each scraping just covered rent. Just covered rent. >> one of those which means here's here's the money for a mortgage, here's money for a down payment on a house. >> Nothing. And again, when I say nothing, I'll say maybe Saha coil between my parents and my in-laws being voice to never to scrape together $10,000. >> Is that called money? >> Not a lot of money. Not a lot of money. >> Your starting salary Let's go today, right? 20 years >> Really? Yeah, just hold on. The first job you applied to it or someone came to you? You're in coil. >> I was learning in a coil in the United States of America and I was ready. Not just financially that I felt that I needed to start earning more money, but I I was ready to roll the sleeves and really do what I always wanted to do. The job The job did not come for me. No, I went I looked for it a a relative was the shot chin. He was living in the city where I'm where I started teaching and I'm presently teaching. [clears throat] Yes, that's impressive. >> I guess what I'm pointing out is like some people like myself, I didn't plan on it. Someone came to me and like said, "Why don't you teach? Here's a job opportunity." And I said, "Okay." But I didn't plan that. It just happened to me. But in your case, there was another element of decision. And then the other thing was the difference in your salary between your last year in call and your first year of teaching, I imagine was a lot more. So like at first it was a win for initially there would have been a you would have made more I assume, but I don't want to is that >> No, I was making in call oil It's going back a few years, but I'm not you know 20 plus, I was making 24,000 annually. I got started off my teaching job at $36,000. >> But that's 12 That's a 33% raise or whatever the numbers are. >> But I was out of call oil. >> Actually a 50% >> had to find I had to find my once I moved just my housing just destroyed >> 35,000 dollars is a lot of money. I'm just saying compared to 26 >> You don't You don't look like you're my father. >> You got [laughter] You're getting free housing in the call oil. So that's right away that's a big expense. >> I No, I was not getting free housing. But again, you want but you want We're talking numbers under the under the face of anonymous. When I was in call oil I was paying about $900 rent. When I moved, I bought a sham I bought right away, but my mortgage with with all in taxes and home owner and home owners was close to 2,000. >> So that is $24,000 a year. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> So there you go. >> Let's fast forward to today because today is where we are. Let's ask to I guess you decide what you're comfortable answering. How much do you already in in a mainstream Yeshiva, how much money do you make as a Rebbi? >> Until I hit a very serious crisis which maybe we'll talk about, maybe we won't. You want to know as just the Rebbi job, not my other not my few other jobs. 73. >> And that's Now, you have a family, right? And you said you have at least one marriage. >> That's on 20 plus years. >> That's till what time? Till two? Till one? Till three? >> Till 2:00. Till 2:00. >> is Sunday. This is there's no off days. There's as we said in the beginning and going to the bathroom is a whole avodah. Who's going to watch my class? The mental >> issue, Ari. >> No, it's not. People I've had friends >> So, part-time job. Ronald, Ronald. >> Get another job after two working as a English >> Another You can't get a real job. You could get a job an English teacher. By the way, you're in the class from from 7:00 4:00 in the morning. Or >> You are so wiped after at 2:00, you are wiped. >> you're good. >> If if >> If you're Rebbi. >> Yeah, yeah. In a perfect world, you would have the next two hours to take a nap, to No, I mean that seriously. To lay down for just to close your eyes for might your eyes are spinning by the time you're done. Especially if you know if it was it was a tougher day. Every year between anywhere between 18 and 25. >> But so imagine you had the luxury of laying down from two to four every day, right? >> No, because at 2:00, I go straight to my afternoon job. >> Like generally speaking, is that in a in a clinic? >> Okay, and how much does that make? >> Yeah. And I would say about 45. And then when you do that >> [clears throat] >> It's the grueling. It's avodah coil. 5:10. So, I'm working from We start around 7:30 we have to be in in school. And I'm going straight to 5:10 but I'm not done. I still >> 100 >> That's 100. Do the math. Crush the numbers. >> That's 110,000 hours. >> Okay, continue. Then what happens? >> Then it doesn't matter. It's that time. >> Then what happens? >> And then so we get home and it will So we get home it's close to 5:30. 7:15 I'm in the car to go to my night seder job. >> And how much does that bring in? >> 22,000 a month. 2,000 a month. >> Try like 9 months. [clears throat] >> I work since I work in the summer, so I don't do night seder in the summer. So >> It was 20 year construction job. You're working till 5:00 and then 7:30. >> And two It doesn't >> I can't even make There's no legal room. I can't tutor. I can't tutor. But can I tutor? Oh, you mean I get home at 5:30 for the first time, say hello to my wife and kids, and maybe eat some supper. Oh, so I should be home for 45 minutes, tutor before night seder. >> over? When is night seder over? >> So I leave my house in the area of 7:15. It is a little bit of a little bit of a drive there. Night seder ends at 9:15. I'm never home before 10:00. And then I got to go to my And then I would love Hey, let's remember I'm Jewish. I would love to learn some Torah. Right. >> preparing? I didn't want to like for any of that. >> preparing >> The whole preparing this >> 20 plus year of that to prepare, right? >> how you teach 3 hours of call blind. >> No. Any time to prepare, and that's again, the weekends when you have so much free time. Okay, I have to say claydish, the preparing is minimal. When it comes It's just It just gets busy around report card season. When it comes to midterms, even the weekly Sunday tests, loan or rot, not the end of the world. >> Would you say what you're doing is typical? Like three jobs? >> Yes. Yes. If Unless someone is being helped. Now, I have haverim where I teach that are part of the that they live in Lakewood. Some of them are learning in a hancom school in Lakewood during the afternoon? I have no idea. But how much could it how much could it make? And to say you think they pay >> plus 25 plus 20 at night it's the same >> 120,000 dollars >> And what about a job that is working 13-14 hours a day basically. >> Wow. So how do you >> So I hold maybe >> doing it for years? You've been doing it for years? >> And then when I and then when I and then when I need to be interviewed they can't get around interviewing me till 11:30. >> But the interview is so much fun rabbi. It's so much fun. >> I know I know. >> Because your wife have now does it make sense if I said something to say so then tell your wife to become an accountant and tell your wife to become a dermatologist. I don't know I mean That's great. Tell your wife to become a Bitcoin trader. >> Or or a social worker. The answer is let's tell her to take a step back. I I feel very strongly that I want my wife and my girls working in a tire dick environment. In other words Yeah. And you know what the problems are right? But you know I once heard on a recording a shoes I guess from Remer Stern up sack. And he was talking to mahonkin I guess he was talking to rabaim there and he was saying that he holds that one of the main sources of all the troubles that we have with our kids today is that the mothers are not home. The mothers are working. Not getting into the problem. But you're just saying this is what I think the reality is the mothers are not there for their children. My wife has to work. So at least I want her to be do I want my daughters to be accountants? No, I don't. I want them to at least work where they're on the same schedule as their kids and they're in the same environment as their children. >> [clears throat] >> That's 50k right. >> The most my wife can make is 50,000. My wife is working from it now. Okay, so my kids are I'm teaching 20 plus and my kids are a little bit older but it wasn't always like this. So my wife was working a morning job and a little bit in the afternoon. Now, that that's just recent because already my kids are a little bit older. >> I think what's important to note is that so you're doing your plate is fuller than full. Your wife's plate is full of You're doing everything. >> I'm doing everything I could. I'm not making it. No, I have never made it. What does make it mean? I have never You listen to I'll finish the sentence. I never made it from paycheck to paycheck. I never made it unless I got a tax refund. You know, I mean, or unless somebody generous over the years gave me something, but I'm talking about just paychecks. I never made it to the end of the paycheck. I could pay twice a month like we all do. I never made it to the end. How do I live? I home home equity could sometimes pay my groceries at the end of the pay cycle. And I'll go I know too much from home equity. >> One thing I hate to There's one more point. We didn't talk about the summers. So, summers is a place of employment. >> right All right cuz right here's Rebbeim only teach 10 months a year. Right All right All right. >> I think many Rebbeim work in the summer. So, what I don't know the numbers though. Reuven, this is one of your special >> I work for 2 months in the summer. This year we're ending Yeshiva on a either a Monday or Tuesday. I'm starting camp that Thursday. Okay? And I'm working 2 months straight. I I will get a 2-week break at the end. Well, 2 weeks. I'm working And again, this is not just me. I don't think I don't think I'm a hero. >> It depends. I do know a little thing about it. >> It's hard. Yeah. Nishan, he didn't ask you that He didn't ask you that question. He was asking me. >> I think what we have established [laughter] very well in this podcast is I don't know camp. So, I don't know the finances of camp. Let's say someone who's been a Rebbe for 20 years, you're probably just not a regular Rebbe. Let's assume you're in between senior staff and the lower staff. I don't know >> I'm senior people notice. >> Do you know what percentage of people get jobs in camps? 3%. >> It's hard to get them, you mean? >> How many web, how many camp ready jobs >> know. They go work. They do things during the night. >> Every year I have Every year I have five Rebbeim friends and any camps are looking for looking for people looking for people. >> Okay, but how much does the guy make? >> What Borka said. >> Plus you get your kids in camp or whatever, but Okay, so what's the range? >> So no type no type of sign up. I >> I've no clue. I don't know anything. >> So I'll give you a clue. I'm senior staff, okay, I'm the division head and I teach in the morning and my wife also works in in camp. I'm making in the ballpark before taxes >> Wow. >> 15. >> But food, room and board and stuff. >> the takeaways not 15, right? >> Room and board, whatever. Like you you don't have expenses. >> Room I want to tell you I I I I've been in sleepaway camps for many years now. Room and board at the end of the day does make you rich because there's always supplementing as good as the as good as the food is. There's all >> Is this an >> That's good. >> And that's good. >> That's good. That's good. >> I would never do it. >> Yeah. >> So is this it's your I don't we don't have to cal- do a calculator. >> It's about 200. It's 180 to 200. That's what it is. >> The So if with squaping everything together on paper, let's say it's over 200, but don't forget there's taxes. Right? So you're when you have a ready that's working a couple of jobs and his wife is working, he's he's middle class. He's paying taxes. He's not eligible for any health insurance program. >> Do you have health insurance? >> They do, but it's too expensive. >> Do they give you like >> The life insurance is expensive. Insurance, yes. Life insurance, yes. >> We have a problem in Houston. We offer it, but it's so expensive. It's like two and a half, three thousand dollars a >> Cuz you go right. Exactly. The deal. >> parents appreciate I'm not in a again, you use that. I'm looking for hero ball. Do you think parents appreciate that Wow. Whoa. That's an overwhelming I know there there are about This is also I get what you're saying, which is true. There are about them that don't make more than 200,000 a month a year. So, their life So, it's and they don't get daily, which many get. And they don't get I don't know what I'll do with my Is there a you get help with this? >> Yes. Or if I sham. But again, everything we spoke about finances is before a simple. >> Right. So, you coming you're not coming >> I'm a make me I'm a naked day-to-day. So, if I if and when I make a simple shnor. And you have a I have a boss that is so gracious and he makes you feel like a million bucks when he can't pay my hospital. Sometimes you feel like you became the happen. You got me? And and I know everybody again, everybody we're all the same boat I'm talking and as much as each one of you are making it it can't it caps out. I remember the first I made. So, my wife is from my fin when I book a cases. By now, we're she's standing back behind me in line with her hand out. >> You regret going into this? >> I want you to know not for one day. >> Do you want this life for your kids? >> I think it depends. Not I think I already have grown kids and some of them are in this, others are not. I think you have to know your kid. No two kids are the same. Some kids have the tea they want better stuff, more stuff and I I have a couple of those kids and I push them to find jobs and go to work. And other of my kids are cut out for and are cut out to live a simpler life. >> You're describing it's not just being cut out for it's being cut out to be a workhorse. Be a workhorse. It's not the part. Being the rabbit being the classroom is the easy part, but it's the >> So, why both being single now? How many are there in the United States? If not just me. So it's not just because you're willing to But how do you have I don't. Somebody letter. I want to Right. Right. Right. I want to say I want to say something because when I was thinking about this interview, so I was thinking it's not just already that's I'm making it. Right? You mean I'll put up in the Spoken Magazine and we we they're right. Nobody's making it, right? But nobody's making it. Everybody's struggling. Inflation is killing anybody. So why am I coming on as a rebbe when half our audience is saying we're also struggling and I agree. But here's Rebbi Rebbi Garso was going to pick up on what you said. In order to be the most effective rebbe possible, you need you should have us. Your whole m- mahos is interacting and being positive and being passionate and just giving and patient. I think it's a Gamorah that says that when Rebbi Leifman and Ilfa met at the Gamorah in Tainus, so Rebbi Leifman dig they had no money. They went out to do business, right? So it ended up that Rebbi Leifman became Rosh Yeshiva. >> Right. >> And once he became Rosh Yeshiva, I think Rashi says so he had no more money issues because once you were Rosh Yeshiva, they took care of all your all your needs. I I could correct me if I'm wrong. I think Rosh Yeshiva rebbe in those days didn't have the same system that we have. The Rosh Yeshiva basically did on some level what already did. To be Rosh Yeshiva, to really give to the talmidim, you can't have diggers of money or at least you can't have So I think of the same thing. I I had experienced kufos and I just went through one recently where I had no money. When I thought about no money, Ammal, usually I said I don't make it from paycheck to paycheck. So, usually things run dry 2-3 days before. It was one of those kufas where just everything >> Spoilers broke. >> There was dental work and more dental work. This bill and that bill. >> Wow. >> No, there was no it was no vacation bill that added up. There was just plain old Reb buying the shul light on to send me bill after bill. The kids are I had maxed out of my home equity. I had nothing. My everything that was going through on my debit account was bouncing. I I couldn't think straight. I woke up. I came into the clan I was like dazed. Like like I couldn't focus. I couldn't focus more than one tur without going back to what like how am I getting through this? >> And and and when I have to get religious, we'll get religious. We I I davened at the end of the day it's been the Adam. I'm not a mala. I'm not a mala. >> Right. And you know, and if you were an accountant who was struggling and again, you're right, there's a lot of people struggling. You could go through a days of a day and just have a bad day at work. You're not allowed to have a bad day at work. >> You cannot. >> So, how do you do that? It sounds like >> You have to dig you really have to dig deep and if it's something if you're in the classroom and if it's something that you want to do because you want to do it, you'll find it. Reb won't will give you the passion. He'll give you the overdrive. He'll give you the adrenaline to be able to do it, but it takes its toll. Takes its toll. Yeah, it really does. >> We're going to start to wrap up. It's obviously a very >> I'm just getting I'm just getting started. Go ahead. >> It's a lot. We hear you. We appreciate you. I I hear it. I've had certain kufas in my life also when I was a rebbe that I could relate to very much what you're saying. Whatever. But you're living it day in day out. It's unbelievable really. So, I want to say that. But also So, what do you want clients well to hear? Like you really think we we can't give $100,000 raises to our rabaim, right? It's just not happening. And that's really what you need. You need a $100,000 raise, period. That's what you need. To cover So, let's say you wouldn't do the afternoon job, you could still do the night seder job. That's 50. And then the other 50 you need just to like breathe cuz you're not breathing now. So, 100k would do it. Maybe camps should pay more, but we'll leave that for another discussion. I'm just >> We'll talk off air to Rabbi Shimon Felder. >> Let's get the camps to up and up. But, I'm just saying, so you need $100,000. Okay. To say that every rabbi in America has got $100,000 is just I don't know what to do with that. >> Correct. Correct. >> us to walk away? What do you want You're the floor is yours. What do you want the oil and listening to hear? The parents, the tsibur >> Okay. It's It's You're putting a lot of pressure on me cuz you give me 30 seconds as and to ask na shibisha losi at hatzi amalkus. But, here it is. I would say that for starters, the rebbeim that I have contact with in my money said the rebbeim in camp everybody is Everybody's positive. Everybody's struggling. Everybody's positive. It's an amazing thing because I have yet to meet a rebbe that is in chinuch because he had nothing else to do. Now, maybe there are those out there. So, Number one Number one, whatever financial struggles a rebbe goes through, the rebbeim that I work with are positive and I don't believe that they would give it up what they're doing for anything in the world. It is the most fulfilling job and maybe that's what gets us through the day-to-day and the hard scufa. But, sometimes in my dream of dreams, there's just something called adopt-a-kolel. How about adopt-a-rebbe? >> Oh my gosh. >> How about it? Now, in In other words, not >> No, my wife is a listener to this podcast and she's going to say you did My wife has been screaming at this for the last 2 years. Why don't we have adopt-a-rebbe? >> Adopt-a-rebbe. Now, that's not Rabbi Garfield. I'm not saying that's something that everybody could do, but adopt-a-rebbe means that there's one or two balabatim that are looking out for this ready. The school still paying, the ready still working, ready is not the ready the ready is not >> that you were suffering you would have somewhere to go. >> Yeah. Do you know I don't have a penny of savings? I love my parents, my in-laws, but they never could afford it. I don't have a penny of savings. So adopt a ready. The forget about the Simcha, just the day-to-day. Uh-oh, he's crunched. He's not going to be able to make it to the finish line. He needs an injection. He needs a few hundred bucks. He needs a couple thousand dollars, but we're looking out for you. Adopt a ready. >> Beautiful. Beautiful idea. >> Amazing. I think on that point, I think if parents we're not changing the system, we're not getting $100,000 raised for each ready. >> Correct. >> You're you have a ready and listen, you're being a very brave and honest and almost very honest about your struggle, but I I'm a man of house. I know my ready my Shiva and their ready my Shiva when they're when they when their transmission goes and they have to do and they shake and they shudder and they make a bris and they don't they can't pay for the bris. So I know the Sugya well. I think that if parents I'm not forget Hanukkah gelt which is beautiful >> Beautiful but >> but it should be more and you give the you give your how much money do you give the other people who you tip, but if the parents would just appreciate forget Hanukkah, it's January. It's Pesach time now. It's you know how expensive Pesach is. So you Shiva's try and I give money for Pesach. >> Right. And constantly live is is amazing. It's amazing. >> but just constantly think if you are a parent and you can constantly think what can I do for my son's ready? First of all, shake it works. So on a selfish just on a selfish level, do it early and do it often. The sake of Stern told us the only shake in the Torah that's mother shake at the ready. >> Feel free. >> When I'm a car ask the Shiva, but just be there and if someone a ready a friend of mine said to me recently and let's see it not everyone has money, but do things for him. If you're a guy that's in goods and services and you're a offer I'm going to fix it. I'm going to do offer, be there, and I think if parents as individuals would embrace the mysterious nefesh and the fact that they need the rebbe for their son's therapy, for their sons to be their son's therapist, to be their son's role model, to be their son's friend, to be everything to their son, >> a rebbe is on call 24/7. 24/7. We all know it, right? Your kid gets Anything happens to your kid, the first lifeline is you call the rebbe. >> Right. >> There's no rebbe who not to call the cell phone. They're happy to do it. We're happy to do it. This is what we signed up for. >> And again, your your hearing is true knowing that there's a lot of people are struggling financially. This is not to say rebbeim are the only ones that are struggling financially. >> Right. But he's your son's rebbe. >> And he's your son's rebbe. That's it. >> There's no I Again, I don't think there's not besides for a mother and a father who is more important in your son's life or in your daughter's life than the rebbe. >> Right. So, and then this rebbe, this is a really special thing that we did. I really appreciate you coming on and talking the way you did. And really special and thanks for coming on. >> I appreciate you having me and allowing me the platform, which I really feel I'm representing a lot of rebbeim. A lot of rebbeim and [clears throat] >> So, keep up your amazing work, rebbe. >> Okay. >> Okay, good. >> Wow, that was so vulnerable of him to share. That was really special. Can't believe it. >> That was raw, it was real. >> It was >> jarring. >> In the sense that these are things that kind of I know, it's hard to be He works what, 12 day 12 hours a a day through the summer. And I don't want this podcast of Reinfeld to be a pity podcast. And this is not about woe what it is to be a rebbe. As you heard from him, how proud he is, and he wouldn't change it for anything in the world. >> Um >> One of the things you said to him at the end, which is I think the most important thing is we're not this is we don't want this to be be episode of just us bemoaning the state of rabbis in America today. So, you said them at the end, tell us something you'd like people to hear and take away from. And he spoke about the fact that his everyone loves it. Most people love the job that they're in being a rebbe. And he mentioned something adopt a rebbe was his idea. I almost fell off my chair when he said it because my wife has been using that language for 2 years. She has this literally this is her mission to create a organization called adopt a rebbe in which we help rabbaim >> in the fall. >> I think we're going to do it. I'm not sure what that means, but if you want to help us, reach out to me. What does it mean? It's not going to change salaries. We can't We wish that everyone could get a 30 40 thousand dollar raise. It ain't happening. But I think what tonight did was hear from someone who's doing everything he can. He's just doing everything he can and there is no better ability for him. As we as he said, there are plenty of balabattem that struggle financially. And that's a hard for them, very hard for them. And this is not the Why are we singling out rabbaim? Right? We're singling out rabbaim or we got to push Please, fill me in. I don't want to be the only one saying this. You have to agree with me on this or tell me I'm on the wrong side. We're singling out rabbaim for two reasons. One is because they're rabbaim. They're the most important part of our child's life besides our parents. We need rabbaim to have and to be taken care of and to feel supported and they're everything to us, right? A good rebbe changes our son's life and it's hard for them and if we can make it any drop better as a parent, whether it's throwing money, whether it's ideas, whether it's Tell your rebbe, you know what? My my two sons are going to come to your house and clean your car for Pesach. Save him 40 bucks that now he can use for matzah. It's real, it's meaningful. Be there for them. The second thing I I don't mean to be such a calculated businessman, a balabos who has a job and struggles financially lives with a dream that he can make it one day. And that dream can allow him a lot of times to up in the morning that if I network this and if I do that I can no matter what job you're in. No matter what profession you're in, there's always the thought I can make it one day financially. Rebain don't have that thought. This rebbi, have you ever heard a rebbi that said and I by the way, I'm not even sure how unique he is. Every every rebbi I know, they work all day. And their cap is $180,000. Their cap maximum, best case scenario. There is no other way for rebbi to make money. We as parents and my sisters, yes, my sisters have to pay more. My sisters don't have money. I know your yeshiva, my yeshiva, we all struggle for money. Don't just just don't forget your son's rebbi. I don't mean rebbi, your son's mo, your daughter's moras, the people that we entrust the next generation in and they are struggling and they're okay to struggle. They're okay to struggle, but let's try to be there for them as much as we can. I was just asking that >> Um I'm a rebbi. I was a rebbi like anyone 10 years of life experience. And I could say that the parents who really appreciate it, who recognize the value you bring to their children, it makes a difference. It makes a difference even for your own children because it's subconscious. It's not like you don't give 110% to everybody, but the parents that really appreciate your the what you're giving and the commitment >> I have >> That's the thing. The my son, there's something to it. There's a It's a relationship. It's like you're sharing the relationship with the chinuch of your child and they appreciate it and you appreciate it and the child appreciate it. It's like what goes around comes around. Again, it's the nature of relationships and so I would say >> My first year rebbi in YSV, a parent came over to me I never talked before. And a week into school gave me $400 and he said this is this is for you to spend on the class. And it gave it it lasted 2 weeks. It it was but just that. Now yeshiva could give you money, but when you do things like that. You know how often rebain prize stores? Every good rebbi has a prize store and has an incentive program. Yeshiva gives you a couple hundred bucks to spend in a basement out of their own pocket. And they're not asking you to collect for that. But go over to the rebbe and say, "By the way, I know you bring kugel every Friday as an eighth grader from your wife. The next five kugels are on me." All right, there's a parent in my yeshiva every couple of weeks he gives me and his son's rebbe herring and kichel for Shabbos. I'm not saying that these are not going to pay the bills. These are not paying bills and they're not replacing them. But everything you could do and by the way, when you could pay your bill now, when you see your rebbe's car is it looks like it needs an oil change and more >> Give some more oil. >> Reach out. And >> 100% >> All right, we look forward to hearing this this particular podcast. I think was full of things people might have comments on. The questions we started with, I still have comments on it and certainly this the finances. So we encourage you to call in. We we love hearing the messages, sending the email. The call number is 443 686-9339 again 443-686-9339 or you could send an email to [email protected] All the best. >> Bye-bye. Take care.