The Get of Vienna | Rabbi Dr. Eliezer Brodt

[Music] foreign [Music] welcome back Rabbi Dr Eleazar brat and today we want to get to the next episode in famous get controversies today we're going to be discussing the get of Vienna which took place in 1611 and 1612. I know nothing about this probably Brock's gonna have to fill me in at least and let me know who the characters were which could Douglas Israel which truvis were involved in discussing this cat and before we do that I just want to thank our sponsor who's unanimous for dedicating this episode as this for Mordechai then bracha and all the learning and the knowledge that's gained from these episodes how are you today Hashem okay so here we're going to try to do this an organized manner give you the story the story is like this basically it takes place in 1611 1612. it originally started in Vienna and gets leads us to Poland and the Greek of Poland of the time we're all involved as we're going to see in this presentation and it was it's a great time for us and through this we're going to meet some of these to discuss very very briefly some of these good great good Island so first we're going to begin with the raw facts very raw but we will return to more in depth about exactly what happened shortly first there was a young couple which from all accounts were happily married they were living in Vienna Hassan's name was avram and the girl's name was basheva avram seems to have gone sick it seems he was deathly ill they thought the doctors it seems at one point thought he was going to die it was all of 16 years old so the wife's relatives started to convince him to give a get and she's going to fall into ibom and need khalitza all different issues so he agreed to give a get there was discussion if he would get better he would be able to he would remarry his wife okay now it appears that Bonham were there in the city they gave the get everything was okay a few weeks later at one point it seems he took a turn for the worst a name was even added yitzuk to his name but eventually he fully recovered so now what higher should have happened was they should have gotten remarried but events ended up happening that they did not get remarried but more than that a different guzzle at the time a relative to Hassan got involved and started stating that the get was not a get and from there the controversy broke out I mean say for a few months it seems no one was saying anything and then all of a sudden a God will gets involved the country breaks out so we hopefully will discuss what exactly was the trigger of why a godo got involved who legado was everything will be discussed in Michigan just an obvious question I'm thinking about maybe a cloth cache what's the matter if it's not a get so they're happily married right no in economy if they're if they're happily married that would be great but they it seems they it seems after this after he got better events happened and she decided she died even though they were originally happy married she seemed to not be interested in remarrying okay thank you for clarifying um but we'll we'll see more about that um soon now so first the question is how do we know about this story who was involved who the girl and what were the exact issues behind the controversy these are the obvious questions that one wants to know as you're hearing these very raw data these raw details okay so it seems and but and the point is this is what became known as in pie skin when they refer to it as the get me Vienna um okay so there was a year you took Levine he wrote a whole safer on this but sadly I can have not I have no access to it because it's in Polish okay now many but so now when we learn through this topic the most as we're gonna see is like this many times we learn a particular gemara or even Allah we wonder especially if you're learning through the fioimi and all different sectors you're learning giten you start wondering how often the certain scenarios even play out in Allah but then you look through chuvasvarum and you'll see that a lot of times things that you think does do not happen could happen often and this is known as the asugya called get shrivemeera okay and we're going to get back to it shortly now another thing is a lot of times when one does look at chuva's Farm you see a chuva someone asked the question and you have you don't really know the full story behind what's going on but you sometimes we'll get to read a long truth from said goggle about a topic but sometimes you get lucky and there's a chuva and the chuva gives you everything what I mean to say is in this story the truth is written on the topic they begin with like two pages just first telling me the story what was the story in Vienna who gave the get what was said and then they lead up to what the issues are and even give dates which a lot of times they don't so this store so this story which takes place in juvent literature you don't need to read academic articles so to speak to figure this all out people to pieces together you could look at the found True song I mentioned in one moment but not only that besides the getting the history of where it's happening and who's involved you also get to see the londis they bring down the gamaras they are sources for everything and they spell out everything pages and pages are written amongst the good Island valve so in all in all you learn this topic you have a lot of Rich londis you could see their methods how they pass in and you get to hear the story and understand everything now fun so the first published tube on this topic is published in 1619 by by this by one of the main characters in the studio that is the maram which we can discuss in one moment he writes in his truvis he publishes a chuva on the topic where basically he's the person who causes the problems and says it's not a good get he publishes a few trouvers including a few chuvres of the lavush he reached out to lavush and the lavush also authored a few trouvers published in this um collection of the maram and if furthermore there's a chuva from the maram written to the Marsha which we'll discuss fast forward 1633 a few years later the chuvius masses pinyaman is published and there also there's about three two of us on the topic fast forward to 1764 a long time later and then there's a tuba from the SMA now the SMA is the person who gave the get so now I'm basically leaking a little bit more in the story that it's between the SMA versus but if you you if you were in the 1630s and you wanted to know the details of the smile story you had you didn't you would not necessarily know okay and later on in 1780s achuva of the bach comes to light the back was also involved and basically with these truvis basically the future was in the Moran the Jews in the master has been Yemen the truva of the of the smile which was published in a collection called you basically could piece together a lot of the story or almost everything okay of course today we have always I always like to bring up this new discovery so they discovered yes a book spam published a lengthy or chuva of the smart on the topic and you took Levine published also a manuscript of a true on the topic but okay fine now so first who's the good element valves where the events happen and then what was the issue so first number one is I said the smile so who is this mom so we have to understand this is a period of time right after the Rama and the Marshall they're both Nifty in the 1570s these are the good day tell medium of the Rama and martial pretty much involved in the topic and people are ready from the Next Generation so number one this man who is this or be sure valakats he's born in 1555 dies in 1644 Iza Russia Shiva in Weir levov which is published in 1614 he's also the author of The presha and Risha on the tour so in the world of Allah everyone knows of him he's very very famous prolific now who is he he is a talmud of both as he writes in his name is of the previous generation okay and there's a lot of fascinating information about him and his methods in his abdama I've mentioned in the past that sometimes you get to learn a lot about them especially here you learn a lot about his methods and everything like this now turns out he's a relative of the kala and it seems that's the reason even though he lived in Lemberg he was visiting and that's why he found himself in Vienna okay fine number two who else is involved there's other day on them so there's another die in there's a yid now we would not even know when you learn the truth of the smile the smile doesn't even say that he's the dying he talks about a case which is sometimes what happens when you have literature of truvis but after we have all four chubas We Now find out no no the smile it's not talking about a hypothetical case that came to him he was the lion in this anyway the second dying was people are familiar with him he's a Founder back of the gemara a great goggle who wrote a lot most of it has not survived but if one wants to know more about this Godzilla you could see this article from music Levine and Yeshua new design this article from my friend Maisha chechik and kitzer he was a very hushable person at a time now it's unclear exactly all the places where he's arrived it appears to be that he was a rough at some point in Vienna how do we know this goofa from this Palmas interestingly enough a lot of times historians they're always looking to find the dating of when some Godzilla is lifter so it turns out there are too much Savers one's in Vienna which seems to have him listed on it and this is love which is much in a much different location so question is where is he buried and what's the dating of when he dies how do we even know that this Romania is involved in the studio the way we know is I mentioned one of the truvises written by the Masters Benjamin and we're going to see what Damascus says that's how we know that handles and valves and that's how so not only do we know he's evolved that's what come most people accept that he was most likely a Rob in Vienna and he dies in Vienna and the matsava fan of Vienna is the accurate one okay now so these are the two people that are involved with the get the giving the get so in order to understand that we're talking about okay who starts to trouble so to speak um not to mean anything um with those words just who cause who causes the whole thing who's the maram he's born in 1558 and dies in 15 in 1616. he is also a Rasha Shiva Weir in Lemberg lavav also the same city as this man he's a Rob there he's not only does he have yeshivy's arav in the city he's from which side of the story turns out he's an uncle or some relative of the khasan side okay now some people say that that the SMA and the maram got along they were both Russia shivas in their own independent yeshivas in love it could be it's hard to know some people say that because of this story because of the events that led up in the story he ended up having to leave the love of the maram could be also I don't know um now again so too with him we could discuss him at Great length we know about him through the interesting that his son publishes in his um when he publishes his father's truvis and learning through the truth is safer of his you could get a lot of insight into who this person is and there's a recent edition of the Jewish Moran they also have a very worthwhile introduction and you have her beautiful Levine also again writing an article about him which is worthwhile now one of the things we find can say there in his chuvas that he says is he's very anti-paiskin that pasigan based on Mississippi he says this is not the way you're supposed to do it you have to show the whole billion of the sack you're not supposed to just rely on these Farm which were meant for Russia interestingly enough romanticiostra show him when he talks about the acceptance of the he brings down all different quotes from different guidelum of this time period this we're talking about this so he says that he quotes and then he gives a list of a bunch of chuvas and then he says it's so powerful and scary what he says he didn't even want to quote him he doesn't he just sends you to go look at them but one of the quotes is what I just mentioned the kids are he's not a fan of the shokhana passing from these swarm okay fine we know of him more um is true for safer as I said is is used a lot um and it was a beautiful but we know him when you learn gemara and you're learning type uh Tyson you turn to the back you usually will have either the Marshall the maram and many of the masektas will be able to help you out just a quote a very brief quote from the malachas macheves from her Greenspan in his incredible safer when he talks about the comparison of the verse the the two sparm the Martian the marami says that the the maram is someone that he writes out everything very clearly and you don't even need to have Ian before the sugya and we we right away we're able to understand what he's talking about whereas martial everyone knows and martial you got to break your head on okay fine now so he writes a bunch of chuvas on the topic okay who does he get involved interestingly enough I told you what does he say about the lavish okay fine anyway the lavushas considered the senior gobble in this issue it's safe Yama of the lavish as we're going to see shortly lavish dies in 1612 also in this time who it turns out also dies in this time and he's they're both not even alive to see the whole outcome of the fight sorry fine now another thing we learned from um we learn a lot of sorry things from this I'm just going to mention one small Pratt is we learn about different that we don't even know about in a few different places he refers to Urban yeah who is this person so if you look in the the chuva of the lavush the tamaran publishes that he got from the lavish he's writing that my friend my great friend Robin for him specifically when is the Zion is in in 1612. anyway if one wants to learn about him today we know more about him thanks to an article in yishun from Malaysia okay one of these obscure dialum again he comes up in this controversy too one um one last person to mention and we'll see the rest as we talk about the actual topic is Damascus he's born in 1535 dies in 1619 he's also a talmud of the Marsha sorry of the Marshall the ramad mashallah an incredible Chupa safer has a tremendous impact in the world of halacha which one day maybe we'll discuss more at length his methods also but he also writes foreign yes definitely yes definitely now and the master spongy oven has a safer that he wrote for women in Yiddish uh which is called he wrote in Yiddish in 1577 that's very early on in his early career today it's been translated into English and also back into even though he wrote it in Yiddish it's been translated into Hebrew by okay okay so these are the main main dilemma I'm going to see some more now where does this take place so although we are truth is written about it it's interesting is that if you look at the truth of the SMA that SMA says everything was fine and then the I think that we did again no one says anything all of a sudden I get to the yurid in Yaris law and then I hear the Craven of the of the Hassan are getting well upset in the making of Tamil what's going on what does he mean with this thing called the urid of yarislav so now we're gonna Sidetrack for another three four minutes and then we're gonna get to the icker when one learns Marsha more than once more than twice you'll find the following is basically he's at a urida fear in Lublin another time he says this in Sanhedrin so what's important for us also is that the Tyson also a goggle and these Goofus writes a sort of I would call it sort of autobiographical account of of certain incidents that happened in his life called McGillis Ava and in the year he talks about this and what happened is like this that that they would gather together and if necessary they would make the various and haramas that were necessary many good dailym were together and they would discuss the different issues the pressing issues that was facing Carl Israel at the time and and he also throws in the Sati Yaris that used to take place where in the iridiarism and then he ends off the next of a safer pincas they would write down the discussions the protocols of what they discussed at these urids they would have basically they would have mass meetings and they would make takanas La Marshall and hilcus ribis there's a thing called the colors where was this disgust and brought up at one of these such irids now we have a work an incredible work from yavana matsula it's called author of The charizion which we actually spoke a little bit about once in once in an episode of some sort but to say for yava Matula is and it's sort of a tragic um an account of what happened in the years and he's talking reflecting he mamish Maps out how many people died in all the different cities and he talks about Europe what was in Poland before 1648 which is mean say he's talking about this kufa what was going on so one of the things he describes is that the Russia shivas with all the tamidam would go to urid in the summer and one of those Rhythm took place in the year it's called yurid yarislav in the winter used to take place in levov and these sometimes it will take place in Lublin and the Russia shivas would come and they would talk and thousands of bahren would be there and Russia shivas from all over will be there but not only what the irid wasn't only for bakram to hack and Tumble and meet other Bakken from Ali yeshivas also this was a business fear people who do business and he says he also people a lot of times taught thousands of were made at these urids okay this is what he talks about in the oven another thing is he says this is weird What's called the vad arbarrates where they used to make great takanos because all the russiaivas were at this Fear The Daily Island so they would meet they would have sessions also the asconim came and they would have sessions things that faced all the different cities and they would many times there could be very lebedic fights so basically what you start was now we're starting to understand what's going on over here the get was written in Vienna and there was no reason there's too many things gonna happen but all of a sudden it comes to the urine and some goddal we know who the goddal is the moram brings up that the urid I'm not happy with this get that this that the smile wrote and he addresses and he and he says his issues which we're going to see mamish momentarily okay so this is some of the background to the story now we could get to the pratham more some more proctum of actually what happened over here and that's his fouls in the gemara already the mishnais the gemara a few different places we find something called is basically someone's about someone's mamish holding he's he's at death's door and we don't want in many cases the issue was we don't want the wife to fold khalito sometimes it's because the the brothers aren't very far away place all different there could be all different reasons so there's a there's a to write again it's called again now all this tally in the suggest it's clear and in the pie scheme it's also clear that this revolves a lot to do with all types of tonight which is a com which in chass in general it's very complex so now to write again and keeping in mind all issues of time is that an easy thing so so at one point there were different takanas had to do this I had a right to get how to write this get so will be filmi Paris brought down by the mardukai said that they would write that they would they would have such a thing which was they would it was a gay Russian ligamery the law is not nothing was no tanam were made they basically made a x they accepted that they're gonna get married afterwards if Louis or the person does survive and and they're going to get married and if they don't they're gonna have to pay a large class but now why was this done because it seems it's very complex how to work it out and then hookahstam and we didn't want it to be problems with the get afterwards so in order to avoid these issues made the stack on it this takana seemed to have been accepted in ashkenazi's policious circles the ramad brings it down so you make a get so it's no longer which has all these different fancy tinayam it's a straight up get well okay and that is what was done when necessary in in cases when it was necessary um they would do that was What's called the getchikamira so they removed all this complexity and they made it very made it easier okay fine now so now we have to see what happened in our story we have luckily as I said we have the SMA we have two truvres of this man the topic so first let's see what the smash says happened he's an eyewitness account obviously and then we have to see what the claims of the issues were very very briefly so as I said the the the tightness these it's pages and pages and it's very kadai to read um briefly um when one has time but today we'll just mention some of the things okay so first like this basically the smash says that um he was mamish dying he was at death's door kids are the craving of the Isha they start talking to him that she's in India that the wife's gonna okay fine so as I said he's doesn't say he's the fine so they but now he says like this which is really him they said we don't give a dead out tonight it has to be a full-fledged again what do we do now basically saying it's a full-fledged get that you have to keep this in mind rebuild you're you're dying but you have to keep this in mind you're dying and it's a full-fledged gift there's no it's not a getchikamar original talks about that there's different aspects and and how do we prevent it basically he's they're saying we're not like this Mordechai shame very good now um so even though what's important is this Hassan is thinking that he's going to get married afterwards if he does get better they're not disagreeing with that but it has to be a real condition whichever brothers and everything like that thought now fast forward um the way the smile brings down the slurry he says um he says this is how they wrote it down the best then wrote down the sack of the get they used to we have we out of young we have tons and tons of documents that survive most of them did not survive but of the pink kasim of the kitten in old kahili he wrote down exactly this is what it is taught and he says nothing's happening no one said boo I'd share is foreign and the Maran says like this was if his wife dies so she's gonna be partnered from Khalid so that's what it was but if he he survives he never had such a thought process that she should um be able that she's not going to be able to um have to remarry him so to speak meaning to say like this the answer it sounds like most cases of gets there was no they weren't Happy Endings this case sadly in a way had a happy ending but that turned out to be a whole um can of worms as they say and what's happening is so if you if you're looking over here strictly says the way we pass can and uh this is how it is end of discussion it's a real get so Louis if she pays up it's a real gift if it isn't a real get this is gonna open up fight their can of worms so according so there's no need to give another get if she I the husband's saying what do you mean the whole reason why I'm doing it yeah but what would happen if he died I'm thinking that that that's what it is it's a real real get full full up straight up yet now another issue which which is brought up by the SMA is they throw out the rabbinutam which we mentioned very briefly in the earlier episode on the promos which is not to be might see last once again is given um what the background of this takana requires Ian but this is comes up in this also um I mentioned then that the Romney Reiner has a whole chapter um dealing with it and the back also when he talks about this also throws in the surveillance time and a lot of the place can put on the road whereas Allah says this is not a good get we'll see why the verse says that momentarily and the maram also don't give the arabino time it's not a good game okay anyway just to quote um in the lavish sorry just the smile um he also brings up but I said that it's going to need to get married again with the with the completeness to win with a complete area Sim with the Zion brachice and everything what he what he thinks happening this is a real get and if it's a real get that means is both parties yes they have to give the try which was set up that they're giving the money there's no ways around that but technically yes he was happily married but now something happened that she decided she doesn't want to marry him whatever happened that has nothing to do about it um and the smile deals with this at length he talks about all this and a fascinating truva and he um as I said pages and pages are bad it seems that he got a hold of the maram made no he was at this for fear so he knew what the morons issues were and he and it seems maybe he saw a copy of the it seems that Rama even published it gets her he looks at this and he deals with all the different complaints of the moram and says I'm should maram I don't know what you're talking about and he answers Raya Raya and says that I don't go I'm not buying into what you're saying at one point he says a very sharp language and he says that he's saying things that I that happened that didn't happen I'm telling you what happened I was there and then he says in a very sharp language or something to the effects yeah he's defending but it's not true at all and it's a good gift and he says that I proposed my hostile my presentation of the sugya in Lublin at the irid in 1612 to defend myself and say he's not and and then at the end of the chuva he has a long list of that agree with him okay so adkan part one of the smile comes along the maram I said the maram is the one who's making the whole um so to speak obviously we don't think like that but the maram is saying it's a problem we say sometimes you'll hear the way people will say of the story is in in a grubby if and we're talking we have to be very clear over here the way I'm reading this is these are good that are there's no oh he's on the side of this side he's on the side of this side that's the way today the internet will talk about this my heart is like a picture already how it will be written it'll be written very simple this God will because he was paid off by that side this guy don't paid off this we're talking about here the superstars unbelievable dismayed them around yes the smile is allowed to say sharp to the moram but that doesn't mean that I getting involved could say such a thing and the maram also when I'm saying he makes trouble I don't really mean he's making trouble he's uh yeah that this is a problem now what seems over here is that what what was getting the maram so upset was is because when they discussed it with the Hassan at his deathbed they kept saying don't worry you're gonna be marrying her afterwards okay and then he has Pages where he's dealing with to know him and he's dealing with all different issues and he's trying to relearn up when Ruby healing power is made was a giant landing and he definitely shows that through and through this juva but we're talking about on the other side was this man who was also a drawing London they both have to be in the same cities I can imagine these are both involved troubling this and passing the farms in the coffee rooms and in all the sessions we could picture it very easily but kitsu he holds that this is a tonight basically and it doesn't make a difference and now what's very he definitely I'm saying it enough that I don't understand it but he definitely does explain it in pages and Pages why he seems to hold that over here it's different and basically um it's not a um it's a problem and this custom was under the impression and it's not a it's a it's a problem over here and this gets a problem and she would need a new guest because basically she is going against him and remarrying and this was not what he meant to get to do okay now the murram as I said he sends this off to other dailymap now so one of the important things was you always have to get a senior senior goggle at the time so it's not only that they were talking about do you read and everyone's talking about Theory I'm going to see some more people that they read but he gets the levusion valve well versus mamas you could see from these three Troopers he's holding a death store and he's writing at them he's writing about this also and at one point delivers it seems couldn't even write this chuva so he suspected that people might say that he didn't write it so he signs off he has Aiden signing it that we know that it's him even though it's not his handwriting but we want he like had a of the star of that this tuba was written by Little Bush let me say the preempt all the different things okay anyway watch little verse also talks about the story how he heard the story pretty much the way that my Ram told him the story and it seems that he must have gotten some information from how the SMA interpreted it and he says he he also writes Beyond powerful assignments he says like this I'm not going to bother to bring down everything that the that the uh what's his name says that the smile says um from the thing in my chuva let me say they used to hire a cipher to copy the different things when they're printing up this chuva because um and then it goes on and on how could he say such a thing it's terrible the conversation is basically saying the smazarias he doesn't know what he's talking about then he says when you bring in rabbin he has all vicious paragraph about this and he says basically she needs another gift what does he say in in a nutshell he says three lines I mean he has pages about it also and he's being makadish things in this chuva this is you're seeing the lavish and this is what he says it says someone's allowing her to get married because this is a get from love um you're comparing two different and what he's trying to say over here is this get the whole reason was he he loved her he didn't want to have problems so he set up such a thing and and then he said okay I'm gonna I'm giving to get Almighty survived so there was no it was everything about this get was that now she has to marry him once she doesn't this causes the whole problem now he goes on over here and starts talking about hookers Gittin that if one gives a get the everyone knows we're gonna get up to the fiani soon if you're supposed to stand give a get if you could give a get your wife burns the food all these famous things that are the uh also people like to joke about but here he says he's going with that in this case this is not a get um he also knows about the Mordechai the same Paris but he's saying this is different this is only doing it for this thing so everything goes out the window then he says like this he and he says a pelvica thing that must be make harpy When I Was Young America is it doesn't work at all even for this even it means he's asking on the whole thing that we know from the gamaras from schneides and gemars that exist this thing called get shamera boys I didn't have a good answer then he does attempt he has um yeah he attempts to answer this with a beyond the original mahalak but the problem is that not everyone was willing to accept such a thing because the pastor says that's what it is because it's good for was because of other problems that's why that kind of was set up that's why they dismissed all the time already and that's why the Mordechai slash should be filming Powers earlier they went and made this takana because it could come into a horrible but but but in this case the Bush was not backing down and he held bottom line is that if you you need a new get if this woman is not if this woman is not remarrying him they'll get the get that was given while he was on his deathbed is not good he says that he spoke it over with people they try to give him a positional tire from a certain tysis and get them he didn't bought he didn't buy into that and basically again and again he talks about it and then but not only that silently that he wrote this chuva he writes another truva about it again saying I looked into it again and then he says another chuva where he says I came to this conclusion basically means to say he didn't write even though he's dying he made sure to feel that he felt and he came to this conclusion agreeing with tomorrow now it's interesting is I pointed out the maram not necessarily a fan of Osho is here yeah he is okay anyway the point is that the Leverage and and uh and the maram are going against the smile we're getting close to the end and that's um like this another God that I said is Damascus he also writes three Troopers now when you read this true it's fascinating to see these truvis here's where you're going to see what happened that at the year you read in Yaris Lao in 1611 they start talking about it and then he says there was even raid that they try to poison this this question was they try to poison him now it's not necessarily that that's really what happened but this is you're seeing the data as the masses phenomena saying what happens when we get to yarislau which is a few months afterwards and it becomes the Tomo this is what was going on and he brings it up again in his chuvus again more than once at one point he says like this at the urid they don't have no swarm they're sitting at irid they're in goal is pretty much he says I need a custom but you see Turtle you read the schmeister bites lion I had to give her opinion and we're talking about Damascus he knew the relative sugius and he came out so he says the first thing he says like this the who was the people that were massages again he says it was Handel then it's time to see us again basically he says I know these people they're right here we're not even talking about this as a fight happening to choose are all sitting over here this is about the maramas in the crowd other things we're going to see are in the crowd I wanna I have to go I know the smile is we're talking about one of the daily Island he's defending himself I know the gamaras I know what he says who wasn't there is saying something else hey crazy I hold that that's it it's a good get nothing to talk about they spoke out this is how you learn this is a get this is how it has to be and he writes this out again by ricochuva he discusses again again he has another true verb because it wasn't the didn't let go and do others in 1612 says the Master's being I'm gonna explode up again I didn't have swarim again he talks about it and he says no he brings up again the poison he brings up again it's the good Island Who's involved that he knows them and he says it's no problem and he also talks about it and then he and not only that he even writes a third tuba about it and he says he does he saw what the maram wrote he doesn't buy into it he goes again what I'm saying that this is how it works and and he also throws in the rabbi no time that we mentioned and this is what I get is it has to be like this okay now I mean to say like this if we wouldn't have known the story that the family promised this Hassan this that he's gonna end up remarrying it could be this whole thing wouldn't have exploded whereas the the way the story at least that we're seeing it is is the um smile saying that didn't play a role we told the Hassan this is this is how we pass again this is how we write it okay anyway obviously we don't know all the different things going on but the maram mamish has pages and Pages where he's explaining a fascinating showing his stuff okay fast forward I mentioned that the masses behind on both cases throws out that it was passing Belize swarm a fascinating thing this is a common Occurrence at the Arid because they didn't walk around with their compute with their laptop when the Roth could go say it let me go to my room and I'll pass in let me just do some research he's stuck he has to be on the spot the back also has us and we have a truth of the back and even in this so give the Box truth also says the same thing I'm at the irid no swara or whatever he writes a whole chuva again dealing with defending the smile on the topic in his Hebrew on he says the same thing um calling the sources and and he's writing this 25 years later close to Sophie I'm of he's saying yes there was Lara coffee Sean and NASA because who's another Goblin of the Marsha is one of the greatest most of this time a contemporary of the maram we know him from the back of the gemara fine there's a cryptic thing all of a sudden if one learns kitten you'll see the last martial martial starts talking he says martial doesn't a lot of times doesn't really talk Allah in specific black and white a lot of times you can infer Allah comes from what he says but he says like this loving viruses based on the Surya of Muhammad and therefore he says um he's basically saying that this is related which is known as the sugar Okay now what's going on over here so it's clear and people point this out my goal is on the safer on the martial which we had we mentioned on one of the podcasts earlier it's referring to the story of the maram now like all folk literature people are always wondering what's the story what's the yakas between the Martian some people say they didn't get along some people say they did get along some people say this fight caused them not to get along the problem is when you look in the maramulu blin when he writes a troval to the martial about this he calls them I don't think you were right such a Russian um if he was real if he and he didn't really mean it he's allowed to have a argue with him but anyway there was no evil intentions over here just the martial was writing at the end of getting this is my shita this is a Hot Topic in the time and martial was also at this he read as we mentioned earlier he was always at easy Ritz okay he also goes with this he brings down the Blind and others and the Taz also obviously he goes over here like to Bach what's happening over here is that we have at the time are handling the fundamentals of of what um what's the halacha it got very limited got very heated and as I said if one learns through these chuvas and you're holding him you'll be able you'll find it fascinating to see all the different ins and outs now just to be Messiah over here many different xylem were involved we're not going to go through we're not going to list them all out but later generations it seems it seems one post note is it's for some reason they ended up giving another get I'm not sure why because it was it seems so strong that so many of them didn't want to give a guy not only that and hookers getting it seems very problematic not to give another get if you don't have to but another get was given in his penis he also seems to be saying that we go with in a different truth about a similar what the based on the materials and the truvres of the gatch this get me Vienna like the consensus not like the Miranda Bush interestingly enough there's a mission is the active who he goes like to maram um he has achuva specifically also from the studio and one way to say that that's going to prove not like the maram he used it to prove them around interesting things which is always very kadai to see how he sets up Sim the first two sifim he brings interesting materials and the end also he argues very traffic against the Michigan he says this is how it has to be he spells it out very very clearly also very could I if someone doesn't have the chance to learn through all the Troopers about it and then just to conclude but the last thing is like this this is much more relative than um than we realize because especially once the Michigan are hitting it into David basheva people soldiers went to war and there was some something at a joint is known as which is its own fascinating topic if one wants to read up about it and see how this plays out in a little bit it was Evan and Islam one of his classic Works has a major para called Muhammad in the paragraph something known as Gite where he deals with the sugya atkan some of the interesting points of this get that rocked the world in 1611 1612. wow wow wow as I mentioned at the beginning you certainly inform me of a lot of information fascinating and I know that you could do a whole series on the topic of you rid what goes on at these you read them um you've mentioned them in the past I'm sure I'm sure there's a lot written about it um it's very important right now because it's interesting is we're recording the episode is about to begin officially next week but more than that you know when this get was in yud aleph mamish were holding in the time on this Hassan a few hundred years ago was sick it could be that when this episode's gonna go live is actually going to be your dollar five I hold that submerged because you like to always bring them in so you can bring them in for theaters of this topic amazing okay it's almost Shabbos by you but we can't let you go before you turn around and pull out a safer and give the audience another glimpse of something that is exciting to the rabbi doctor in his Library behind you okay so here we'll go very briefly as the time is close to Shabbos it's called this is how it looks and this is like this there's a there was a a great look to Chicago I'm sorry Luke for Chicago who dies in London in 1966. his name was three hershfarber and fascinating yid and he wrote a lot but mostly he publishes Tyra it was published on Hamish and all different types of things and on office and he would sit in libraries in London and he had seems he also had a lot of swarm and he would put together his own materials adding to them fascinating fascinating material so he put out a word called on the sitter okay mice has been out of him for a while recently it seems some people on Earth to straw are very big fans of his they're I'm not sure if they're related to the Mahaba themselves and they've been starting to publish his materials and and basically they they went ahead they got new material from him from the sitter and they're going to turn this one volume into two volumes so volume one is called volume two I guess is gonna be Shabbos they got new materials that he had in his um in his collection that I guess wasn't published and they also did an amazing thing a lot of times he would say I am actually going to say from this safer not everyone has those Farms so they brought you all the things on the bottom that he quotes he also quote a lot of times rear sparms they would bring it on the bottom so this is a few hundred Pages um just came out managed less than a month ago it's 375 pages very interesting nahi Weinstein of the Spartan chatter podcast had I believe a greater great great grandson of this Rabbi Farber who I think is a fascinating Story how they got involved in starting to reprint some of the content of their Elders they the fascinating story it's worth listening to just the story of like one of his children who used to sit at the Shabbos table who's repeating over some of the stuff that they found in shots foreign like for a project started putting together like weekly diverter to send out and that's how the whole project started now they obviously have ended up with this um they did first they did first I got the show pesach now they went to the city but I'll tell you something else interesting I don't know if they mentioned on this thing is that this wrote to Farber left behind in autobiography I randomly came across that he left behind such autobiography in an article I once bought a safer a book that was a collection of articles in the back of the book this guy did a murder they could tell you he used to collect articles in newspapers about the element he would put it in this book so when I got the book I bought a used bookstore they left in all these papers so not only did I get a bunch of articles about um a bunch of them in this book but I got articles that this guy collected from journals in London about all different Island and one there was an article out too far but I I have a little sperm but I all of a sudden see that he had an autobiography he they wrote about it there all of a sudden very curious what's going on does it exist I do some detective work and find out that Rabbi Penny Donner owns the autobiography and was working on publishing it I then reached out to him at the time and we got a trend I got a transcribe and hopefully one day it will come out with Rabbi Donner's notes and everything but it was it's a fascinating thing to learn about the world of Lita and of London fascinating stuff in this autobiography okay thank you very much Rabbi doctor Brad have yourself a wonderful Shabbos