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The Get of Vienna | Rabbi Dr. Eliezer Brodt
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This episode was sponsored: L'zechus a shidduch for מרדכי בן ברכה Introduction - Story - Sources of the story - Who are the gedolim involved - The Maharam - The Ma'asas Binyomin - The Yerid - What were the Issues with the Get? - Sema Version of the story - The Levush Teshuvos - The Ma'asas Binyomin Teshuvah - The Bach - The Maharsha - Some later sources in Achronim - New Sefer For more information please email: [email protected] or [email protected]
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[Music]
foreign
[Music]
welcome back Rabbi Dr Eleazar brat and
today we want to get to the next episode
in famous get controversies today we're
going to be discussing the get of Vienna
which took place in 1611 and 1612. I
know nothing about this probably Brock's
gonna have to fill me in at least and
let me know who the characters were
which could Douglas Israel which truvis
were involved in discussing this cat
and before we do that I just want to
thank our sponsor who's unanimous for
dedicating this episode as this for
Mordechai then
bracha and all the learning and the
knowledge that's gained from these
episodes
how are you today
Hashem
okay so here we're going to try to do
this
an organized manner give you the story
the story is like this
basically it takes place in 1611 1612.
it originally started in Vienna
and gets leads us to Poland and the
Greek of Poland of the time we're all
involved as we're going to see in this
presentation
and it was it's a great time for us and
through this we're going to meet some of
these to discuss very very briefly some
of these good great good Island so first
we're going to begin with the raw facts
very raw but we will return to more in
depth about exactly what happened
shortly first there was a young couple
which from all accounts were happily
married they were living in Vienna
Hassan's name was avram and the girl's
name was basheva avram seems to have
gone sick it seems he was deathly ill
they thought the doctors it seems at one
point thought he was going to die
it was all of 16 years old so the wife's
relatives started to convince him to
give a get and she's going to fall into
ibom and need khalitza all different
issues so he agreed to give a get
there was discussion if he would get
better he would be able to he would
remarry his wife okay
now it appears that Bonham were there in
the city they gave the get everything
was okay
a few weeks later
at one point it seems he took a turn for
the worst a name was even added yitzuk
to his name but eventually he fully
recovered
so now what higher should have happened
was they should have gotten remarried
but events ended up happening that they
did not get remarried
but more than that a different guzzle at
the time a relative to Hassan got
involved and started stating that the
get was not a get and from there the
controversy broke out I mean say for a
few months it seems no one was saying
anything and then all of a sudden a God
will gets involved the country breaks
out so we hopefully will discuss what
exactly was the trigger of why a godo
got involved who legado was everything
will be discussed in Michigan
just an obvious question I'm thinking
about maybe a cloth cache what's the
matter if it's not a get so they're
happily married
right no in economy if they're if
they're happily married that would be
great but they it seems they it seems
after this after he got better events
happened and she decided she died even
though they were originally happy
married she seemed to not be interested
in remarrying okay thank you for
clarifying um but we'll we'll see more
about that um soon now
so first the question is how do we know
about this story who was involved who
the girl and what were the exact issues
behind the controversy these are the
obvious questions that one wants to know
as you're hearing these very raw data
these raw details okay so it seems and
but and the point is this is what became
known as in pie skin when they refer to
it as the get me Vienna
um okay so there was a year you took
Levine he wrote a whole safer on this
but sadly I can have not I have no
access to it because it's in Polish
okay now many but so now when we learn
through this topic the most as we're
gonna see is like this many times we
learn a particular gemara or even Allah
we wonder especially if you're learning
through the fioimi and all different
sectors you're learning giten you start
wondering how often the certain
scenarios even play out in Allah
but then you look through chuvasvarum
and you'll see that a lot of times
things that you think does do not happen
could happen often and this is known as
the asugya called get shrivemeera
okay and we're going to get back to it
shortly
now another thing is a lot of times when
one does look at chuva's Farm you see a
chuva someone asked the question and you
have you don't really know the full
story behind what's going on but you
sometimes we'll get to read a long truth
from said goggle about a topic but
sometimes you get lucky and there's a
chuva and the chuva gives you everything
what I mean to say is in this story the
truth is written on the topic they begin
with like two pages just first telling
me the story what was the story in
Vienna who gave the get what was said
and then they lead up to what the issues
are and even give dates which a lot of
times they don't
so this store so this story which takes
place in juvent literature you don't
need to read academic articles so to
speak to figure this all out people to
pieces together you could look at the
found True song I mentioned in one
moment but not only that besides the
getting the history of where it's
happening and who's involved you also
get to see the londis they bring down
the gamaras they are sources for
everything and they spell out everything
pages and pages are written amongst the
good Island valve so in all in all you
learn this topic you have a lot of Rich
londis you could see their methods how
they pass in and you get to hear the
story and understand everything now
fun so the first published tube on this
topic is published in 1619 by by this by
one of the main characters in the studio
that is the maram which we can discuss
in one moment
he writes in his truvis he publishes a
chuva on the topic where basically he's
the person who causes the problems and
says it's not a good get
he publishes a few trouvers including a
few chuvres of the lavush he reached out
to lavush and the lavush also authored a
few trouvers published in this
um collection of the maram and if
furthermore there's a chuva from the
maram written to the Marsha
which we'll discuss
fast forward 1633 a few years later the
chuvius masses pinyaman is published and
there also there's about three two of us
on the topic fast forward to 1764 a long
time later and then there's a tuba from
the SMA now the SMA is the person who
gave the get so now I'm basically
leaking a little bit more in the story
that it's between the SMA versus
but if you you if you were in the 1630s
and you wanted to know the details of
the smile story you had you didn't you
would not necessarily know okay and
later on in 1780s achuva of the bach
comes to light the back was also
involved
and basically with these truvis
basically the future was in the Moran
the Jews in the master has been Yemen
the truva of the of the smile which was
published in a collection called
you basically could piece together a lot
of the story or almost everything
okay of course today we have always I
always like to bring up this new
discovery so they discovered yes a book
spam published a lengthy or chuva of the
smart on the topic and you took Levine
published also a manuscript of a true on
the topic but okay fine now so first
who's the good element valves where the
events happen and then what was the
issue so first number one is I said the
smile so who is this mom so we have to
understand this is a period of time
right after the Rama and the Marshall
they're both Nifty in the 1570s these
are the good day tell medium of the Rama
and martial pretty much involved in the
topic and people are ready from the Next
Generation so number one this man who is
this or be sure valakats he's born in
1555 dies in 1644 Iza Russia Shiva in
Weir levov
which is published in 1614 he's also the
author of The presha and Risha on the
tour so in the world of Allah everyone
knows of him he's very very famous
prolific
now who is he he is a talmud of both as
he writes in his
name is
of the previous generation
okay
and there's a lot of fascinating
information about him and his methods in
his abdama I've mentioned in the past
that sometimes you get to learn a lot
about them especially here you learn a
lot about his methods and everything
like this now turns out he's a relative
of the kala and it seems that's the
reason even though he lived in Lemberg
he was visiting and that's why he found
himself in Vienna okay fine number two
who else is involved there's other day
on them so there's another die in
there's a yid now we would not even know
when you learn the truth of the smile
the smile doesn't even say that he's the
dying
he talks about a case which is sometimes
what happens when you have literature of
truvis but after we have all four chubas
We Now find out no no the smile it's not
talking about a hypothetical case that
came to him he was the lion in this
anyway the second dying was
people are familiar with him he's a
Founder back of the gemara a great
goggle who wrote a lot most of it has
not survived but if one wants to know
more about this Godzilla you could see
this article from music Levine and
Yeshua new design this article from my
friend Maisha chechik and kitzer he was
a very hushable person
at a time
now it's unclear exactly all the places
where he's arrived it appears to be that
he was a rough at some point in Vienna
how do we know this goofa from this
Palmas interestingly enough a lot of
times historians they're always looking
to find the dating of when some Godzilla
is lifter so it turns out there are too
much Savers one's in Vienna which seems
to have him listed on it and this is
love which is much in a much different
location so question is where is he
buried and what's the dating of when he
dies
how do we even know that this Romania is
involved in the studio the way we know
is I mentioned one of the truvises
written by the Masters Benjamin and
we're going to see what Damascus says
that's how we know that handles and
valves and that's how so not only do we
know he's evolved that's what come most
people accept that he was most likely a
Rob in Vienna and he dies in Vienna and
the matsava fan of Vienna is the
accurate one okay now so these are the
two people that are involved with the
get the giving the get so in order to
understand that we're talking about okay
who starts to trouble so to speak um not
to mean anything
um with those words just who cause who
causes the whole thing
who's the maram he's born in 1558 and
dies in 15 in 1616. he is also a Rasha
Shiva Weir in Lemberg lavav also the
same city as this man he's a Rob there
he's not only does he have yeshivy's
arav in the city he's from which side of
the story turns out he's an uncle or
some relative of the khasan side
okay now some people say that that the
SMA and the maram got along they were
both Russia shivas in their own
independent yeshivas in love it could be
it's hard to know some people say that
because of this story because of the
events that led up in the story he ended
up having to leave the love of the maram
could be also I don't know
um now
again so too with him we could discuss
him at Great length we know about him
through the interesting that his son
publishes in his
um when he publishes his father's truvis
and learning through the truth is safer
of his you could get a lot of insight
into who this person is
and there's a recent edition of the
Jewish Moran they also have a very
worthwhile introduction and you have her
beautiful Levine also again writing an
article about him which is worthwhile
now one of the things we find can say
there in his chuvas that he says is he's
very anti-paiskin that pasigan based on
Mississippi
he says this is not the way you're
supposed to do it you have to show the
whole billion of the sack you're not
supposed to just rely on these Farm
which were meant for Russia
interestingly enough
romanticiostra show him when he talks
about the acceptance of the he brings
down all different quotes from different
guidelum of this time period this we're
talking about this
so he says that he quotes
and then he gives a list of a bunch of
chuvas and then he says
it's so powerful and scary what he says
he didn't even want to quote him he
doesn't he just sends you to go look at
them but one of the quotes is what I
just mentioned the kids are he's not a
fan of the shokhana passing from these
swarm okay fine we know of him more
um is true for safer as I said is is
used a lot um and it was a beautiful but
we know him when you learn gemara
and you're learning type uh Tyson you
turn to the back you usually will have
either the Marshall the maram and many
of the masektas will be able to help you
out just a quote a very brief quote from
the malachas macheves from her Greenspan
in his incredible safer when he talks
about the comparison of the verse the
the two sparm the Martian the marami
says that the the maram is someone that
he writes out everything very clearly
and you don't even need to have Ian
before the sugya and we we right away
we're able to understand what he's
talking about whereas martial everyone
knows and martial you got to break your
head on okay fine
now so he writes a bunch of chuvas on
the topic okay who does he get involved
interestingly enough I told you what
does he say about the lavish okay fine
anyway the lavushas considered the
senior gobble in this issue it's safe
Yama of the lavish as we're going to see
shortly lavish dies in 1612 also in this
time who it turns out
also dies in this time and he's they're
both not even alive to see the whole
outcome of the fight sorry
fine now
another thing we learned from
um we learn a lot of sorry things from
this I'm just going to mention one small
Pratt is we learn about different that
we don't even know about
in a few different places he refers to
Urban yeah
who is this person so if you look in the
the chuva of the lavush the tamaran
publishes that he got from the lavish
he's writing that my friend my great
friend Robin
for him specifically when is the Zion is
in in 1612.
anyway if one wants to learn about him
today we know more about him thanks to
an article in yishun from Malaysia
okay one of these obscure dialum again
he comes up in this controversy too one
um one last person to mention
and we'll see the rest as we talk about
the actual topic is Damascus
he's born in 1535 dies in 1619 he's also
a talmud of the Marsha sorry of the
Marshall the ramad mashallah an
incredible Chupa safer has a tremendous
impact in the world of halacha which one
day maybe we'll discuss more at length
his methods also
but he also writes
foreign
yes definitely yes definitely now and
the master spongy oven has a safer that
he wrote for women in Yiddish uh which
is called
he wrote in Yiddish in 1577 that's very
early on in his early career today it's
been translated into English and also
back into even though he wrote it in
Yiddish it's been translated into Hebrew
by okay okay so these are the main main
dilemma I'm going to see some more now
where does this take place so although
we are truth is written about it it's
interesting is that if you look at the
truth of the SMA that SMA says
everything was fine and then the I think
that we did again no one says anything
all of a sudden I get to the yurid in
Yaris law
and then I hear the Craven of the of the
Hassan are getting well upset in the
making of Tamil what's going on what
does he mean with this thing called the
urid of yarislav so now we're gonna
Sidetrack for another three four minutes
and then we're gonna get to the icker
when one learns Marsha more than once
more than twice you'll find the
following
is
basically he's at a urida fear in Lublin
another time he says this in Sanhedrin
so
what's important for us also is that the
Tyson also a goggle
and these Goofus writes a sort of I
would call it sort of autobiographical
account of of certain incidents that
happened in his life called McGillis Ava
and in the year he talks about this and
what happened is like this
that that they would gather together and
if necessary they would make the various
and haramas that were necessary many
good dailym were together and they would
discuss the different issues the
pressing issues that was facing Carl
Israel at the time and and he also
throws in the Sati Yaris that used to
take place where in the iridiarism and
then he ends off the next of a safer
pincas
they would write down the discussions
the protocols of what they discussed at
these urids they would have basically
they would have mass meetings and they
would make takanas La Marshall and
hilcus ribis there's a thing called the
colors where was this disgust and
brought up at one of these such irids
now we have a work an incredible work
from yavana matsula it's called author
of The charizion which we actually spoke
a little bit about once in once in an
episode of some sort but to say for yava
Matula is
and it's sort of a tragic
um an account of what happened in the
years and he's talking reflecting he
mamish Maps out how many people died in
all the different cities and he talks
about Europe what was in Poland before
1648 which is mean say he's talking
about this kufa what was going on so one
of the things he describes is that the
Russia shivas with all the tamidam would
go to urid in the summer and one of
those Rhythm took place in the year it's
called yurid yarislav in the winter used
to take place in levov
and these sometimes it will take place
in Lublin and the Russia shivas would
come and they would talk and thousands
of bahren would be there and Russia
shivas from all over will be there but
not only what the irid wasn't only for
bakram to hack and Tumble and meet other
Bakken from Ali yeshivas also this was a
business fear people who do business and
he says he also people a lot of times
taught thousands of were made at these
urids okay this is what he talks about
in the oven another thing is he says
this is weird What's called the vad
arbarrates where they used to make great
takanos because all the russiaivas were
at this Fear The Daily Island so they
would meet they would have sessions also
the asconim came and they would have
sessions things that faced all the
different cities and they would many
times there could be very lebedic fights
so basically what you start was now
we're starting to understand what's
going on over here
the get was written in Vienna
and there was no reason there's too many
things gonna happen but all of a sudden
it comes to the urine and some goddal we
know who the goddal is the moram brings
up that the urid
I'm not happy with this get that this
that the smile wrote and he addresses
and he and he says his issues which
we're going to see mamish momentarily
okay so this is some of the background
to the story now we could get to the
pratham more some more proctum of
actually what happened over here and
that's his fouls in the gemara already
the mishnais the gemara a few different
places we find something called
is basically someone's about someone's
mamish holding he's he's at death's door
and we don't want in many cases the
issue was we don't want the wife to fold
khalito sometimes it's because the the
brothers aren't very far away place all
different there could be all different
reasons so there's a there's a to write
again it's called again now all this
tally in the suggest it's clear and in
the pie scheme it's also clear that this
revolves a lot to do with
all types of tonight which is a com
which in chass in general it's very
complex
so now to write again
and keeping in mind all issues of time
is that an easy thing
so so at one point
there were different takanas had to do
this I had a right to get how to write
this get
so will be filmi Paris brought down by
the mardukai said that they would write
that they would they would have such a
thing which was
they would it was a gay Russian ligamery
the law is not nothing was no tanam were
made
they basically made a x they accepted
that they're gonna get married
afterwards if Louis or the person does
survive
and and they're going to get married and
if they don't they're gonna have to pay
a large class but now why was this done
because it seems it's very complex how
to work it out and then hookahstam and
we didn't want it to be problems with
the get afterwards so in order to avoid
these issues made the stack on it this
takana seemed to have been accepted in
ashkenazi's policious circles the ramad
brings it down
so you make a get so it's no longer
which has all these different fancy
tinayam it's a straight up get well okay
and that is what was done when necessary
in in cases when it was necessary
um they would do that was What's called
the getchikamira so they removed all
this complexity and they made it very
made it easier okay fine now
so now we have to see what happened in
our story
we have luckily as I said we have the
SMA we have two truvres of this man the
topic so first let's see what the smash
says happened he's an eyewitness account
obviously and then we have to see what
the claims of the issues were very very
briefly so as I said the the the
tightness these it's pages and pages and
it's very kadai to read um briefly um
when one has time but today we'll just
mention some of the things okay so first
like this
basically the smash says that um
he was mamish dying he was at death's
door kids are the craving of the Isha
they start talking to him that she's in
India that the wife's gonna okay fine so
as I said he's
doesn't say he's the fine
so they but now he says like this which
is really him they said
we don't give a dead out tonight
it has to be a full-fledged again
what do we do now
basically saying it's a full-fledged get
that you have to keep this in mind
rebuild you're you're dying but you have
to keep this in mind you're dying and
it's a full-fledged gift there's no it's
not a getchikamar original talks about
that there's different aspects and and
how do we prevent it basically he's
they're saying we're not like this
Mordechai shame
very good
now
um
so even though what's important is this
Hassan is thinking that he's going to
get married afterwards if he does get
better they're not disagreeing with that
but it has to be a real condition
whichever brothers and everything like
that thought
now fast forward
um the way the smile brings down the
slurry he says
um he says this is how they wrote it
down the best then wrote down the sack
of the get they used to we have we out
of young we have tons and tons of
documents that survive most of them did
not survive but of the pink kasim of the
kitten in old kahili he wrote down
exactly this is what it is taught and he
says nothing's happening no one said boo
I'd share is
foreign
and the Maran
says like this
was if his wife dies so she's gonna be
partnered from Khalid so that's what it
was but if he he survives he never had
such a thought process that she should
um be able that she's not going to be
able to um have to remarry him so to
speak meaning to say like this the
answer it sounds like most cases of gets
there was no they weren't Happy Endings
this case sadly in a way had a happy
ending but that turned out to be a whole
um can of worms as they say and what's
happening is so if you if you're looking
over here strictly
says the way we pass can and uh this is
how it is
end of discussion it's a real get so
Louis if she pays up it's a real gift if
it isn't a real get this is gonna open
up fight their can of worms so according
so there's no need to give another get
if she I the husband's saying what do
you mean the whole reason why I'm doing
it yeah but what would happen if he died
I'm thinking that that that's what it is
it's a real real get full full up
straight up yet
now another issue which which is brought
up by the SMA is they throw out the
rabbinutam which we mentioned very
briefly in the earlier episode on the
promos which is not to be might see last
once again is given
um what the background of this takana
requires Ian but this is comes up in
this also
um I mentioned then that the Romney
Reiner has a whole chapter
um dealing with it and the back also
when he talks about this also throws in
the surveillance time and a lot of the
place can put on the road whereas Allah
says
this is not a good get we'll see why the
verse says that momentarily and the
maram also don't give the arabino time
it's not a good game okay anyway just to
quote um in the lavish sorry just the
smile
um
he also brings up but I said that it's
going to need to get married again with
the with the completeness to win with a
complete area Sim with the Zion brachice
and everything what he what he thinks
happening this is a real get and if it's
a real get that means is both parties
yes they have to give the try which was
set up that they're giving the money
there's no ways around that but
technically yes he was happily married
but now something happened that she
decided she doesn't want to marry him
whatever happened that has nothing to do
about it
um
and the smile deals with this at length
he talks about all this and
a fascinating truva and he
um
as I said pages and pages are bad it
seems that he got a hold of the maram
made no he was at this for fear
so he knew what the morons issues were
and he and it seems maybe he saw a copy
of the it seems that Rama even published
it gets her he looks at this and he
deals with all the different complaints
of the moram and says I'm should maram I
don't know what you're talking about and
he answers Raya Raya and says that I
don't go I'm not buying into what you're
saying
at one point he says a very sharp
language
and he says that he's saying things that
I that happened that didn't happen I'm
telling you what happened I was there
and then he says in a very sharp
language or something to the effects
yeah he's defending but it's not true at
all and it's a good gift
and he says that I proposed my hostile
my presentation of the sugya in Lublin
at the irid in 1612 to defend myself and
say he's not and and then at the end of
the chuva he has a long list of that
agree with him okay so adkan part one of
the smile
comes along the maram I said the maram
is the one who's making the whole
um so to speak obviously we don't think
like that but the maram is saying it's a
problem
we say sometimes you'll hear the way
people will say of the story is in in a
grubby if and we're talking we have to
be very clear over here the way I'm
reading this is these are good
that are there's no oh he's on the side
of this side he's on the side of this
side that's the way today the internet
will talk about this my heart is like a
picture already how it will be written
it'll be written very simple this God
will because he was paid off by that
side this guy don't paid off this we're
talking about here the superstars
unbelievable dismayed them around yes
the smile is allowed to say sharp to the
moram but that doesn't mean that I
getting involved could say such a thing
and the maram also when I'm saying he
makes trouble I don't really mean he's
making trouble he's uh yeah that this is
a problem now what seems over here is
that what what was getting the maram so
upset was is because when they discussed
it with the Hassan at his deathbed they
kept saying don't worry you're gonna be
marrying her afterwards okay and then he
has Pages where he's dealing with to
know him and he's dealing with all
different issues and he's trying to
relearn up when Ruby healing power is
made was a giant landing and he
definitely shows that through and
through this juva but we're talking
about on the other side was this man who
was also a drawing London they both have
to be in the same cities I can imagine
these are both involved troubling this
and passing the farms
in the coffee rooms and in all the
sessions we could picture it very easily
but kitsu he holds that this is a
tonight basically and it doesn't make a
difference and now what's very
he definitely I'm saying it enough that
I don't understand it but he definitely
does explain it in pages and Pages why
he seems to hold that over here it's
different and basically
um
it's not a
um it's a problem and this custom was
under the impression and it's not a it's
a it's a problem over here and this gets
a problem and she would need a new guest
because basically she is going against
him and remarrying and this was not what
he meant to get to do okay now the
murram as I said he sends this off to
other
dailymap now so one of the important
things was you always have to get a
senior senior goggle at the time so it's
not only that they were talking about do
you read and everyone's talking about
Theory I'm going to see some more people
that they read but he gets the levusion
valve well versus mamas you could see
from these three Troopers he's holding a
death store and he's writing at them
he's writing about this also and at one
point delivers it seems couldn't even
write this chuva so he suspected that
people might say that he didn't write it
so he signs off he has Aiden signing it
that we know that it's him even though
it's not his handwriting but we want he
like had a of the star of that this
tuba was written by Little Bush let me
say the preempt all the different things
okay anyway watch little verse also
talks about the story
how he heard the story pretty much the
way that my Ram told him the story and
it seems that he must have gotten some
information from how the SMA interpreted
it and he says
he he also writes Beyond powerful
assignments he says like this
I'm not going to bother to bring down
everything that the that the uh what's
his name says that the smile says
um from the thing in my chuva let me say
they used to hire a cipher to copy the
different things when they're printing
up this chuva because
um
and then it goes on and on how could he
say such a thing it's terrible the
conversation is basically saying the
smazarias he doesn't know what he's
talking about
then he says when you bring in rabbin
he has all vicious paragraph about this
and he says basically she needs another
gift what does he say in in a nutshell
he says three lines I mean he has pages
about it also and he's being makadish
things in this chuva this is you're
seeing the lavish and this is what he
says it says
someone's allowing her to get married
because
this is a get from love
um
you're comparing two different
and what he's trying to say over here is
this get the whole reason was he he
loved her he didn't want to have
problems so he set up such a thing and
and then he said okay I'm gonna I'm
giving to get Almighty survived so there
was no it was everything about this get
was that now she has to marry him once
she doesn't this causes the whole
problem now he goes on over here and
starts talking about hookers Gittin that
if one gives a get the everyone knows
we're gonna get up to the fiani soon
if you're supposed to stand give a get
if you could give a get your wife burns
the food all these famous things that
are the uh also people like to joke
about but here he says he's going with
that in this case this is not a get
um he also knows about the Mordechai the
same Paris but he's saying this is
different this is
only doing it for this thing so
everything goes out the window then he
says like this he and he says a pelvica
thing that must be make harpy When I Was
Young America is
it doesn't work at all even for this
even it means he's asking on the whole
thing that we know from the gamaras from
schneides and gemars that exist this
thing called get shamera boys
I didn't have a good answer then he does
attempt he has um yeah he attempts to
answer this with a beyond the original
mahalak but the problem is that not
everyone was willing to accept such a
thing because the pastor says that's
what it is because it's good for was
because of other problems that's why
that kind of was set up that's why they
dismissed all the time already and
that's why the Mordechai slash should be
filming Powers earlier they went and
made this takana because it could come
into a horrible but but but in this case
the Bush was not backing down and he
held bottom line is that if you you need
a new get if this woman is not if this
woman is not remarrying him they'll get
the get that was given while he was on
his deathbed is not good
he says that he spoke it over with
people they try to give him a positional
tire from a certain tysis and get them
he didn't bought he didn't buy into that
and basically again and again he talks
about it and then but not only that
silently that he wrote this chuva he
writes another truva about it again
saying I looked into it again
and then he says another chuva where he
says I came to this conclusion basically
means to say he didn't write even though
he's dying he made sure to feel that he
felt and he came to this conclusion
agreeing with tomorrow now it's
interesting is I pointed out the maram
not necessarily a fan of Osho is here
yeah he is okay anyway the point is that
the Leverage
and and uh and the maram are going
against the smile we're getting close to
the end
and that's um like this
another God that I said is Damascus he
also writes three Troopers now when you
read this true it's fascinating to see
these truvis here's where you're going
to see what happened that at the year
you read in Yaris Lao in 1611 they start
talking about it and then he says there
was even raid that they try to poison
this
this question was they try to poison him
now it's not necessarily that that's
really what happened but this is you're
seeing the data as the masses phenomena
saying what happens when we get to
yarislau which is a few months
afterwards and it becomes the Tomo this
is what was going on and he brings it up
again in his chuvus again more than once
at one point he says like this at the
urid they don't have no swarm they're
sitting at irid they're in goal is
pretty much
he says I need a custom but you see
Turtle you read the schmeister bites
lion I had to give her opinion
and we're talking about Damascus
he knew the relative sugius and he came
out so he says the first thing he says
like this
the who was the people that were
massages again he says it was Handel
then it's time to see us again
basically he says I know these people
they're right here we're not even
talking about this as a fight happening
to choose are all sitting over here this
is about the maramas in the crowd other
things we're going to see are in the
crowd
I wanna I have to go I know the smile is
we're talking about one of the daily
Island he's defending himself I know the
gamaras I know what he says who wasn't
there is saying something else hey crazy
I hold that that's it it's a good get
nothing to talk about they spoke out
this is how you learn this is a get this
is how it has to be and he writes this
out again by ricochuva he discusses
again again he has another true verb
because it wasn't the didn't let
go and do others
in 1612 says the Master's being I'm
gonna explode up again I didn't have
swarim again he talks about it and he
says no he brings up again the poison he
brings up again it's the good Island
Who's involved that he knows them and he
says it's no problem and he also talks
about it and then he and not only that
he even writes a third tuba about it
and he says he does he saw what the
maram wrote he doesn't buy into it he
goes again what I'm saying that this is
how it works and and he also throws in
the rabbi no time that we mentioned and
this is what I get is it has to be like
this okay now
I mean to say like this
if we wouldn't have known the story that
the family promised this Hassan this
that he's gonna end up remarrying it
could be this whole thing wouldn't have
exploded whereas the
the way the story at least that we're
seeing it is is the
um smile saying that didn't play a role
we told the Hassan this is this is how
we pass again this is how we write it
okay anyway
obviously we don't know all the
different things going on but the maram
mamish has pages and Pages where he's
explaining a fascinating showing his
stuff okay fast forward
I mentioned that the masses behind on
both cases throws out that it was
passing Belize swarm a fascinating thing
this is a common Occurrence at the Arid
because they didn't walk around with
their compute with their laptop when the
Roth could go say it let me go to my
room and I'll pass in let me just do
some research he's stuck he has to be on
the spot the back also has us and we
have a truth of the back and even in
this so give the Box truth also says the
same thing I'm at the irid no swara or
whatever he writes a whole chuva again
dealing with defending the smile on the
topic in his Hebrew on he says the same
thing
um calling the sources and and he's
writing this 25 years later close to
Sophie I'm of he's saying yes there was
Lara coffee Sean and NASA because
who's another Goblin of the Marsha
is one of the greatest most of this time
a contemporary of the maram we know him
from the
back of the gemara fine
there's a cryptic thing all of a sudden
if one learns kitten you'll see the last
martial martial starts talking he says
martial doesn't a lot of times doesn't
really talk Allah in specific black and
white a lot of times you can infer Allah
comes from what he says but he says like
this
loving
viruses
based on the Surya of Muhammad
and therefore
he says
um
he's basically saying that this is
related which is known as the sugar
Okay now what's going on over here so
it's clear and people point this out my
goal is on the safer on the martial
which we had we mentioned on one of the
podcasts earlier it's referring to the
story of the maram now like all folk
literature people are always wondering
what's the story what's the yakas
between the Martian some people say they
didn't get along some people say they
did get along some people say this fight
caused them not to get along the problem
is when you look in the maramulu blin
when he writes a troval to the martial
about this he calls them I don't think
you were right such a Russian
um if he was real if he and he didn't
really mean it he's allowed to have a
argue with him but anyway there was no
evil intentions over here just the
martial was writing at the end of
getting this is my shita this is a Hot
Topic in the time and martial was also
at this he read as we mentioned earlier
he was always at easy Ritz okay
he also goes with this he brings down
the Blind and others and the Taz also
obviously he goes over here like to Bach
what's happening over here is that we
have
at the time are handling the
fundamentals of of what um what's the
halacha it got very limited got very
heated and
as I said if one learns through these
chuvas and you're holding him
you'll be able you'll find it
fascinating to see all the different ins
and outs now just to be Messiah over
here
many different xylem were involved we're
not going to go through we're not going
to list them all out but
later generations it seems it seems one
post note is it's for some reason they
ended up giving another get I'm not sure
why because it was it seems so strong
that so many of them didn't want to give
a guy not only that and hookers getting
it seems very problematic not to give
another get if you don't have to but
another get was given
in his penis
he also seems to be saying that we go
with in a different truth about a
similar what the based on the materials
and the truvres of the gatch this get me
Vienna like the consensus not like the
Miranda Bush interestingly enough
there's a mission is the active who he
goes like to maram
um he has achuva specifically also from
the studio
and one way to say that that's going to
prove not like the maram he used it to
prove them around
interesting things which is always very
kadai to see how he sets up Sim
the first two sifim he brings
interesting materials and the end also
he argues very traffic against the
Michigan he says this is how it has to
be he spells it out very very clearly
also very could I if someone doesn't
have the chance to learn through all the
Troopers about it and then just to
conclude
but the last thing is like this this is
much more relative than um than we
realize because especially once the
Michigan
are hitting it into David basheva people
soldiers went to war and there was some
something at a joint is known as which
is its own fascinating topic if one
wants to read up about it and see how
this plays out in a little bit it was
Evan and Islam one of his classic Works
has a major para called Muhammad in the
paragraph something known as Gite where
he deals with the sugya atkan some of
the interesting points of this get that
rocked the world in 1611 1612.
wow wow wow
as I mentioned at the beginning you
certainly
inform me of a lot of information
fascinating
and I know that you could do a whole
series on the topic of you rid what goes
on at these you read them
um you've mentioned them in the past I'm
sure I'm sure there's a lot written
about it
um it's very important right now because
it's interesting is we're recording the
episode
is about to begin officially next week
but more than that you know when this
get was in yud aleph mamish were holding
in the time on this Hassan a few hundred
years ago was sick it could be that when
this episode's gonna go live is actually
going to be your dollar five I hold that
submerged because
you like to always bring them in so you
can bring them in for theaters of this
topic
amazing okay it's almost Shabbos by you
but we can't let you go before you turn
around and pull out a safer and give the
audience another glimpse of something
that is exciting to the rabbi doctor in
his Library behind you
okay so here we'll go very briefly as
the time is close to Shabbos it's called
this is how it looks
and this is like this there's a there
was a a great look to Chicago I'm sorry
Luke for Chicago who dies in London in
1966.
his name was three hershfarber
and fascinating yid and he wrote a lot
but mostly he publishes Tyra it was
published on Hamish and all different
types of things and on office
and he would sit in libraries in London
and he had seems he also had a lot of
swarm and he would put together his own
materials adding to them fascinating
fascinating material so he put out a
word called
on the sitter okay mice has been out of
him for a while recently it seems some
people on Earth to straw are very big
fans of his they're I'm not sure if
they're related to the Mahaba themselves
and they've been starting to publish his
materials
and and basically they they went ahead
they got new material from him from the
sitter and they're going to turn this
one volume into two volumes so volume
one is called volume two I guess is
gonna be Shabbos they got new materials
that he had in his
um in his collection that I guess wasn't
published and they also did an amazing
thing a lot of times he would say I am
actually going to say from this safer
not everyone has those Farms so they
brought you all the things on the bottom
that he quotes he also quote a lot of
times rear sparms they would bring it on
the bottom so this is a few hundred
Pages
um just came out managed less than a
month ago it's 375 pages
very interesting nahi Weinstein of the
Spartan chatter podcast had I believe a
greater great great grandson of this
Rabbi Farber who I think is a
fascinating Story how they got involved
in starting to reprint some of the
content of their Elders they the
fascinating story it's worth listening
to just the story of like one of his
children who used to sit at the Shabbos
table who's repeating over some of the
stuff that they found in shots foreign
like for a project started putting
together like weekly diverter to send
out and that's how the whole project
started now they obviously have ended up
with this um
they did first they did first I got the
show pesach now they went to the city
but I'll tell you something else
interesting I don't know if they
mentioned on this thing is that this
wrote to Farber left behind in
autobiography I randomly came across
that he left behind such autobiography
in an article I once bought a safer a
book that was a collection of articles
in the back of the book this guy did a
murder they could tell you he used to
collect articles in newspapers about the
element he would put it in this book so
when I got the book I bought a used
bookstore they left in all these papers
so not only did I get a bunch of
articles about
um a bunch of them in this book but I
got articles that this guy collected
from journals in London about all
different Island and one there was an
article out too far but I I have a
little sperm but I all of a sudden see
that he had an autobiography he they
wrote about it there all of a sudden
very curious what's going on does it
exist I do some detective work and find
out that Rabbi Penny Donner owns the
autobiography and was working on
publishing it I then reached out to him
at the time and we got a trend I got a
transcribe and hopefully one day it will
come out with Rabbi Donner's notes and
everything but
it was it's a fascinating thing to learn
about the world of Lita and of London
fascinating stuff in this autobiography
okay thank you very much Rabbi doctor
Brad
have yourself a wonderful Shabbos