The Chazon Ish Using New Rishonim Published from Manuscripts Pt. 3

[Music] foreign [Music] hope you're doing well today we continue on our journey exploring your pranky's farm although we've gotten down in Rabbi Brook's words the manuscript Rabbit Hole um we're actually towards the top climbing out discussing what has initia's opinion is regarding manuscripts we've already done two episodes on that I believe broth wants to add a couple of interesting anecdotes and stories that he's found about the khazana's opinion regarding manuscripts so we'll get to that this episode is being sponsored as well as all the episodes Forum by an anonymous donor friend supporter of Rabbi Dr brother nismas and all the learning and all the knowledge gained should be an Eloy for his nishama we also we've had a lot of good feedback on or by brought turning around and pulling out this farm from his library from his piles and introducing one of them so if you stay tuned Until the End you'll get another safer we've already done three difference for him I'm sorry we've done two today will be the third we've done let's say for removing Margolis a safer on about and we've also we'll be doing a third save for this upcoming episode so with that long introduction everybody brought how are you today excellent obviously we have to mention that we have listeners from all around the world or even got a message from someone in Hong Kong who listens to the podcasts amazing beautiful um some have a minute to read emails I'll just read one email from somebody who sent that he just listened to the new post on manuscripts the material on you xiaomi kochem as a source for haziness's reluctance to employ new findings and the part about Havana were mind-blowing okay that is an excellent email Enterprise what do you have in store for us today that's all we're about to find out we're about to find out okay so first we've been discussing up till now um we basically in what two sentences we call it the pro using of manuscripts every showing them and against the pro is for most famous is the mission Brewer and kanesky and against using new manuscripts is however in a few episodes back already we listed out various cases where the Khazana seems to have used new manuscripts now I gave in different it's very well known besides for writing on call tarakula literally um he also was involved with the fancy word is different controversies in Allah um and some of them um ended up because of them Harris that's tons of tires were written on these topics one such topic which became Allah myself middle of World War II when the mere Yeshiva and others were found themselves in Japan in Shanghai it's the controversy it's known as the Dateline controversy so I briefly spoke about it that over there has no problem using nourish item that were printed in more in recent years so I just found as I'm looking the he wrote a countries called conscious at the end he refers to it he refers to the Ravid that he and which I said it came out in the 1930s that's why I mentioned so the Khazana was not hiding anything he was aware was a new manuscript and he quoted it with no problems okay now another controversy that has very famous for um it's heavily discussed is called the Pumas hashirum what is the correct Shear for all different that relate to this when you have to let's say eat makidish wine on say their night all different areas so this is a heavily discussed topic for many years also spoke about it so I said I quoted them a quote that is brought down and this is again in the khazanish in his conscious he says he says like this going and he says where is it printed in the eights are going on a Riven and we already spoke about the Hebrews then says a very interesting line before he goes and brings you down what they're going to say he says even though we don't rely on manuscripts that the so to speak just discovered avocado so in this line of the of the hazanesh there seems to be a lot it's a very like every line that has this very loaded number one is it sounds like it's an exception to a rule that has seems to have said in other places which we discussed some sources for that but here because he feels that this is a guy this is authentic piece so it doesn't make a difference I mean say even though in the same sentence says which would be a reason not to use it but if you're certain that it's a choice of a guy then you can use it okay and I quoted this before so it's a what the point I'm trying to make out is there's two very important points in these ten words that Hazard says on this topic but more than that I I didn't real I didn't realize to the extent um until I was looking further into this falling deeper deeper into the rabbit hole of the Paul Musashi urum which I I am not going to go into don't worry but one in the poem the main players was exercised responding to it and who gets involved with this the stipler and the stipler wrote two very two three sharp hiburum about the topic eventually he probably and he publishes them and today I couldn't find recently recently I could not find my copy I luckily was matsuyashan getting someone to get it from brene Brach it's not so easy because he could only get the adoyan could only get to safer at the stapler's house whereas family members still live and going through this keyboard what's important relating to this controversy is like this I wanted to show that not only if you want to know what the presidential you have to look at his greatest tamidim the stipler became pretty much after he becomes a brother-in-law completely becomes his full-fledged talmud in this pullmus of the shirum where he writes a whole work defending and fighting with he's defending the Khazana throughout the work he's using new reshaid him like nobody's business starting with the guy name this that um the stipler goes on and his chuva and he quotes other he he did his research mamish in the sugyo you could see he checked up tons of sources and reshined him and got him and many of these things are brand new published what's also interesting is Le Marshall he's quoting Robin hanano which last week he spoke about was not so fast except also on the side of furious there's a REV Nissan all these were all new materials that the Shaz Vilma added to the shaft that was not published before for manuscript for usage of this controversy the stipler is using it now and a lot of this material has in their saw an arcade but what's interesting to me what so if you go through the safest year in shelter of the stipler one will seek mamish usage of Nuri China One interesting line that I found going through the scriber is that he quotes Amara Markham from who his son Rakim kanievsky a characterization on the sugya the Hane my son brings a gear so blah blah blah okay and he then he brings another idea from him and again we see here he's using his at this early age this is going back way way this is where Heim is very very young in this time in this controversy actually I'm not sure because the safer constantly was updated so I can't say I can't pinpoint exactly what it was but anyway point is that this the stipler is using the full literature of new discoveries manuscripts and everything now what's ironic is like this the other side which is more let's say you if you to be in a very broad Strokes Disney xiaomi is the world of in the of you shalim as opposed to the neighborhood so also knows about this and he talks about Paris and he handles it and there at the end in the beginning he writes about it kilo with sources so much some you can't rely on so it's it's ironic is an ish the kazlishes camp is pro-less Discovery from this again they have a massive arikas to explain it whereas the other Camp which does rely on other wishaid him and all these types of things but they are taking this this says that nirin going against it anyway okay but obviously this is just a very shittiest way of presenting it one has to be holding deep deep in these complex suggests but just to point this out okay now with this we can understand with this interesting line as it has an ish in in his countries of yeshiram we could understand a little bit when he said when the destler who says over I had a conversation with more than once about this topic and he says when there's strange things in these in this in these but if let's say whereas the Marshall in the studio says then you could rely on it now obviously the problem was like this we've shown that there are other times the haznish is willing to accept materials from these manuscripts and as the stipler uses a bunch in the story of of shirom so what is the guidelines which reason would I say does not leave us behind uh um to tell me yeah if it's near and shame that we are going of course most of the time they say almost every time they say yes we found this manuscript here and here and we believe it so what's to get there when would it's very hard to know when the Khazana would say that it's going okay this is Akasha which I never was able to find they're going to answer okay one last point before we move on this files we spoke about last week is Robin hanano that a lot of the times the haznus is saying his material I'm going to get to one of the stories more in depth soon when he is referring to is the way it's printed in the Shahs in the shasts of vilna it's full of mistakes we quoted one of those shyness it's full of that's what haznus writes in one of the places where he talks about and I showed you that in multiple places he says such a lesson so I found very interesting a while ago there was Aid review he's born in 1870. and he ends up um he ends up his father was naftali herzalevi who became the rav of yaffo before rifkok anyway this year sits and learns for a very long time until I think the 40s and one of his projects was to say I hope to deal with this work he wrote a massive work on the safer only brockhas and Chavez was published and just two weeks ago Mahoney Shalom printed the whole work on Chast and what he did in this work I'm going to speak about in a different in a different uh presentation not relating to this but Amir Tashan very soon but anyway they printed his materials that he wrote he spent a lot of time learning the safer and what the significance of that is obviously its own story and he learned so in a piece that he published in in a journal at the time he finds a piece of Rubina and then he says it's referring to a piece in Shabbos he says even though we're McLean who we spoke at was one of the footnoters working for Charles wilna to explain this rabina khanano he says tairu it's not true and basically what happened is was a printing mistake the the person who transcribed it transcribed words that was supposed to be in a different page earlier onto this page he has some brilliant crap and then he shows that so there's lines that got taken that was supposed to be let's say on the Ahmad days Osama put onto the Ahmed Allah for the gemara and that was what made it confusing but if you realize if you read it very carefully you'll realize that there's two different pieces and this piece is really going on Ahmad base of the gemara and so basically put it in the wrong place which is similar to what I'm saying with the hazmesh comes along with bam Levine who we spoke about many times so in his own him he deals with Robin he Publishers as I've mentioned in other episodes and he finds taka another manuscript in Oxford of rabena khanano on this and it's clear that this was 100 right basically this manuscript that they used Vilma which I said was under the gun so therefore they took it from somewhere else but if you but now now the manuscript came and it showed that it wasn't but basically this schwera peace was put in the wrong place okay anyway I'm just using this to illustrate that there is an acute this this uh this great made this discovery and it turns out it was true okay this is these are just some side points for the previous episodes now now just to go further deeper into this Rabbit Hole as as you so beautifully said in the introduction we're trying to climb out this RAB of this rabbit okay The Story Goes Like This up till now we're discussing we're showing him new discoveries that we shine him so and what has held and we're discuss we're trying to bring documentation from all different places what to has no child about so now I'll do is another topic which relates directly to this which I also devoted an episode which is the gearsus of the gemara when you learn gemara and and there's a so you're learning gumara and Rashi says haki garcinan or much later on everyone learns the gemara and you see your back says changes the gearsa the martial changes the gear so what's going on here where are they changing this from they're changing it from a manuscript or not so we spoke about this that many times they were not using manuscripts sometimes they were um some of them were some of them weren't some of them were never using it and then we spoke about this major discovery of the Xavier Minchin slash the 2K safrim we're the the manuscript the early manuscript of the chassis is discovered and published with okay so at the time I said pretty much there was no opposition against this discovery and this is coming out as late as into the 1880s when the Duke ciphon dies and people in Galicia people in litter no one is saying anything against this work pretty much okay that's why I said them all of a sudden but if you go ask Yeshiva guy something about him don't make with the nose automatically also to look at the kazanish and so the question is where does this come from and and this directly results it relates to our greater story of manuscripts every shine him too so the story is like this there's a piece of hasanesh which is printed in a few different places and if you and and this is how you see how amazing says something and we're going to see the background behind this piece and we'll see if it was even meant to be released to the public and this created ashita so to speak anti the Hebrew and I believe and I'm going to try to document this I'm going to make a speculation that he had no problem whatsoever with the glucose ciphon okay now here so okay now that's introduction what's the story so The Story Goes Like This there was a year his name was Shapiro David Shapiro was a great going he's from I believe born in monkach and he's born in 1898. around the year when he's 12 years old he's already the dark achuva loves him in onecatch and he makes his fair before he gets Bar Mitzvah his parents they make Aliyah they come to you shall I okay now there's a book put out about him where they collected materials about him from all different places called irishna came out a few years ago from a fellow Rabbi Ashkenazi who I believe lives in Batar anyway this yid published his book fine and this is where I got some of my information about the history of the seed um and to get some background in the story anyway not only is this this but he's also interested in he's interested in astronomy an astrology these type of topics okay he learns by a great you xiaomi yid a lit fact who ends up in English who actually did have expertise in this field but I'm not sure if that's where his interest came from it seems that he had his interest ready early on okay now there are others is a young he's a young boy when he gets you shalim and he's ready he has it seems his father was into this topic his father was also and basically what happens is that um in the Dateline Shiloh which is a famous Rift takashinsky who's also Miel who's also fascinated by these type of topics so it seems there are people usually that are interested in these topics okay anyway he remains in contact with the mooncatcher Salazar supposedly who made a trip visited yusheline the only way from this they are truvis of his and his safer anyway all in all we're talking about a tremendous tremendous who is expert in other areas besides the regular shots of high school okay just understand in the Dateline Shiloh the famous pullmus which we mentioned briefly already more than once today even um the imranis said that who should they ask they should speak to this Republic Shapiro because he's an expert in these areas so you see that he's a known expert at the delum hold of on the in this topic okay anyway in in 1938 he want he releases volume one of his truest combination and 1971 is the second volume and then so after his death volume 3 comes out okay very nice so what does this have to do with our story the answer is this false it seems that in the 19 late 1930s while he was working on this chuva safer of his and various of his he decided to send a Simon of a manuscript of one of his chuvists to the hazanesh and hazanesh wrote intense intense comments and I'm I mean really really long comments and intense comments Pages pages okay and this is talking about there's a massive chuva decided to to come into however it's clear we we know now the haznish never intended for anyone especially not the author to see this and trust me when you read these letters there's nowhere in the world that has an issue is known for being a very able person wanted this material to go in it seems the mistake was made someone in the family some family member of the kazanish assumed that did want to author to get it it's pages and he ended up giving it to this person I don't know that this person this person didn't publish it anyway um at some point way back there's a famous work on the housing a multi-volume or Co peradar they published some of the materialsky does publish um a bunch of layers that has an issue in the back of their hamuna he publishes the whole correspondence here but if you wouldn't know this you would never know um what where what the kazanesh is angry about in this about this chuva would never have been released it was released by mistake afterwards and says I'm so sorry I found out that it got to you and you have no you're you're an expert in this topic there's no reason to care what I say but then he says the words and I found this interesting he says um it was never supposed to go out whatever even though um especially no one really should know who it is because it's Russia Tavis everything like that but then he says wanted what's in these letters to get out there now what's interesting is in today's day and age we have the materials we spoke about this already before there's the covert secret so they they chopped out stuff and they don't tell you what is going on safer in Rosh Hashanah has some of the material and they also don't tell you what it's going on and when you look at the whole story over here you see that they literally chopped out pieces from this whole correspondence which we now have few years ago a fellow started putting out more materials like as I made a joke to hazinch has been writing from his caver very a lot a lot of materials so he put out a now it's five volumes called this represents one group of people in the Bene BRAC world of the haznish a different group of people in the basement of the of Tami di Khazana they put out of Safe they saw this is successful they said what we might as well get it so when they put it out they did not tell us that it's going on with David Shapiro I guess maybe because originally raznus didn't want the name to go out so even though the name is out they held they shouldn't get out there but it's clear that whatever is said over here it was never meant to be discussed publicly now why is all this important because basically there is nowhere in the haznish's writings says a word against except over here in this massive so mean to say the whole thing moshito that everyone says coming from a story which was never supposed to even get out which was in a private with who this is so what was the story about basically shemitah which is a very important topic for the hazanish and especially in the 30s it was a very sensitive topic in her distro this Republic Shapiro wrote a very very fascinating and what would be called illusion piece on the sugya relating to the exact years of shemitah with massive in the calculations of the history of the world a topic that has been discussed and he and he came up with and you see right away what's going on when you start looking at the khazanish over here you could tell that the hazinish is having uh I'm not going to use the exact words I really would use offline but because of the cosmic is getting very very nervous right away he begins and he starts saying to say things he brings a cloud from replyinger to say something that Arabi never said which is against everything we know it's unheard of so basically we have this massive peace that the seed writes which has 85 pieces at least 85 Parts with a Lewis kite then say the islands and historical stuff and everything he was a as I said he was a majority is going nuts he's saying it does not whatever you're saying and he and then it has but it's not like says okay you're saying and he leaves them alone no he has pages to explain to him okay fight in Middle you could see that he doesn't like the language he's using Okay so this happens sometimes at one point you could see that gets another Point gets him nervous is the way he talks about the gra he says some type of line in the middle of the conversation okay about the gross so says that has an ish you're referring to the grub crirus yesera it's too cold how you're referring to the gra now you have to understand again I'm not saying that this is really what's going on but dovich appears a monk catcher he probably would have said the same thing but says a famous line which says elsewhere differently so the same thing is so therefore you got to be very very careful um going on um and then he says even and the girl attacker he said he throws in yes the girl argues on Ark even that's a different story but the point is you could see from this he devotes at least a page and a half lines and lines he's getting nervous how he's being with the gra and how he talks about we shine him over here so basically what I'm trying to say is when you start reading this Simon very very carefully you see we're talking about a piece that's getting the haznish nervous it's not that he said one line in the piece and he relies on the Duke aside for him and then all of a sudden ish ah you said something is a terrible thing because of what whatever reason what you're about to see the whole chuva the holiday of the whole chuva which devotes Pages literally pages to going against the sayings are wrong it's it's it's it I'm I'm not going to say them over because you have to really be holding in the studio but they are very very sharp and that Bucky and has an ish to say that this is the sharpest time it is because I think he is sharp some other times but again this was for himself so it's not really it's not even fear okay anyway so what but what relates to us what's false it has an issue over here says at one point this year wanted to to prove his one of his riots was because of a certain gears in the gemara is coming from then he says says you want to be madaic and learn up a gemara because to be madaic and held Xavier has the doesn't have a certain word in the gemara do you mean to think that everyone who learned this Kamara was not Imran because one um Cipher taught me gamara even not only is he being Maxwell everyone to learn wrong he said then he says in general which is a very key point make sure it's clear and it's properly edited that that that over time came in he goes on and on and he says you cannot but um just because it's you found in the Xavier that it doesn't have this line you want to buy ice and you want to go against we shine him and everything the kids are because she's not taking going for this then he says but they all corrupt shaft lacamus Ms corrupt the emissions it's worthless at the end of the day and then he says and then he brings down something to the quickest way from okay so you see over here the whole thing over here which became known as the Hassan shashita very anti-manuscripts and it hasn't sheds other shine is also about this further on this piece is what's known as the khazanish is peace anti the cookie so first of all um so first so we're just to clarify two points number one I've called it numerous numerous times of seven he has a book review about this safe herbination and what's fascinating is like this if you did not know that is what's going on over here is so um sharp against this chuva safer of of this of this Shapiro you never would be on what's going on in the review of represent on this safer you might think it's okay you know maybe it's not the most positive review of the safer but if you read it very carefully and you understand what it has in this held you can understand this that was Evan also who was a guy in Islam and he also picked up and he writes very sharf but you have to know the Khazana to understand that context against the safer he says nothing holds up all the riots mamish are not rias and he's specifically talking about the Indian of shemito which where he talks about the ages and he go and he goes through it's a unbelievable but it's not a um it's not true at all he enumerates some of his issues with it and it's fascinating to see how he also was aiming on some of the things that spends pages to to demolish so to speak so here of zeven is also aiming on the on this thing obviously um who also is very well versed in the sugya of of these of these issues he played out he plays out in the city of the Dateline he's with he wrote a lot about this anyway the point is that when you read this review on F and you also see that already then rosavin will review is a tremendous time of Hacker no one was taking away from that aspect and he he emphasizes the monk catcher but you could see another nakuda which would not have bothered the khazalish but definitely bothered rebseven is that he could that he sees um mystical zilzer in in places in the safer against Arch Israel because the famous anti-art Israel shita so the mooncatcher sees has ashba in certain language that this Mahaba writes and seven was much more proar to Israel for lack of a better word I'm using right now but anyway the point is that represent also was Imran that there's a lot more happening and this is not um it doesn't stand um the piece of the pieces of tiger these unbelievable pilpal is not true and was going against too many things and they could not accept it okay but not neither Rob zeven Wars but he was brilliant in these areas and sometimes and this is nervous is someone sometimes someone's brilliant in this but if you're really really holding the sugar which was and you're able to pinpoint all the different things you have to be very careful now so with all this background we can understand a little bit more cases never ever talks about him I don't think I believe my heroes is false the hasanish never saw the safer but what happens is like this and I'm going to prove it in a moment we have evidence that the the the 2K cipherim how does the 2K sorry frame look so if you open up a two case are you from a hand I have one handy it's like this let me just show page maybe you could see okay so if you can't see not everyone sees it on the video basically is on the top is the gemara on one side he has what's called he calls and one side is the bottom is full of Earth now he went ahead and he read the manuscript what's called Xavier now the whole time that has an issue is referring savior when people talk about it they took a cyphram especially people that use it the whole time they always refer to it and we have hundreds of cases no one says whatever you say from especially because he didn't only use the Xavier men can use other manuscripts which I'm about which I'll explain more in a second now what happened is like this in the early 1900s someone went ahead and made a photocopy I can't dig it out to show you how it looks a photocopy of the actual Xavier saw that how do I know this there's a fellow not a he's not a rabbi he was a he's a newspaper writer his name's got his name is brother was a famous guy who had to do it anyway he told Professor Spiegel who was icicle on the sugya that the Khazana would send taught from the ganachowskis had a nice library and they were in many black they lived near the khazanish from time to time we would have them look up things for him they had a copy of the Savior Minchin means a facts Amelia edition of the manuscript which just has in it and and you'll see in a second why this is significant so basically he sometimes he would have or come himself to look at this to see something now we don't the claim is not that is really using it whatever that's uses since he doesn't see something and he builds Vita in his tire that are ready the kazanesh is having there's a bunch of problems already that has against it so this was like not the straw that broke the camel's back this was another of many Tinus that he has throughout the 10 pages but everyone's but people are very unfair they don't publish the tire repair they just took out this nakuga because it's just fuming at the whole chuva mamish for the groupies for other pieces how he talks so now so I'm saying like this was upset because if someone has Xavier Minchin and he sees something in this who said you should rely on Xavier milchen over the gemara now you know who agrees with that they took a ciphonovich never held to print the manuscript alone without an explanation because the same reasons that has any chance it's dangerous the divers we learned to gamara what is it from do a safer that I told you in earlier episodes of the time and that all but many he writes out in depth how to use the safer he says like this he said he agrees with the cause the safer saviad minhren is full of mistakes more mistakes than Aaron gamara so you're looking about to ask me so why in the world should we use anything the answer is but they're still preserved in here many correct your slaves how does he know this well says look at my bottom I have something called hagais made it his business to track down tons of restraining unbelievable Library he was able to have in manuscript also and he was able to aim it on different but he says some let's say I just find an examin can say something or it doesn't say something you can't do anything this was the gemara that we have and everything without getting into the whole story of the printing press when do I hold it you could use it for something says well now I have six other refrigerant that have this gear so so then that then you could use it so it's sort of you say the Hassan was right in his fear the Shapiro was I don't know why that I can't explain but Shapiro was misusing the Xavier Minchin that's not how excited was supposed to be used was never intended to be used like that it was supposed to be used as a smack with the footnotes and in the beer means you should know if I had it sad to publish without the footnotes then he realized this is dangerous you have to explain what the hashivas of the manuscript is a lot of times people have a manuscript they find a manuscript you're like okay you have a manuscript so what does it change anything no but I want to publish it because if it says on the front page for a manuscript people will buy it because there's a michigas that people have to buy something manuscripts so I tell people is there anything new no so then you're wasting time you're just fooling people you're basically lying to people because they think they're getting something new and they're not so the same thing over here and went out of his way to explain to gamara so he was well aware of the fears of the khazanesh so what I'm trying to suggest and someone might say I'm Bonkers but I'm just I'm just throwing this out there as DC the cousins he didn't even know what's in the duplication why he didn't I have an explanation in the in the next episode when we discussed and the impact it has on tanievsky and we'll explain also more about in depth about the work Tara kamuna and other works of Hein kanyevsky will be able to understand it more why he never even sought out such a work but did your size yeah ganachowsky had it he looked it up and that was there and I said it's it's ironic to see that the Khazana was anti something that no one else said anything a friend of mine Darren have been was found the one of the earliest um times that someone said anything about manuscripts of gemara doesn't even say something about it was an article in the palace in 1914. you look before the before this piece of the Khazana gets out there's nowhere does it come out nowhere published that anyone says boo I'm not saying that that everyone should run and use it I'm saying is that you would think that someone would be upset about it okay anyway what's more interesting about this is those files himself too so we have a work Professor Spiegel brings us to my attention in his work and others also they published and the kazanesh on the side of his gemara you know what he does many times he changes gear size now he doesn't do it based on the Duke Safran or about Xavier minichen he makes suggestions and they collected all of them and was published um two times already the later time was in 1997 and it's funny is when you read the hadama it says so this version they're not hard they don't want to handle that it's really been collecting all the gear sites that hasn't just changes manuscript these are suggestions they say it's mostly his areas was very into that which we discussed in season one how much the has an issue is important from the martial but the point is that the Khazana himself uses man um he makes changes in the gemara without manuscripts so it so my point is that it's not so much the fear of making the changes it's the it was in it was in a certain you have to know the context in this chuva in this pulmas where this or Shapiro was already saying things that was getting so upset and so nerve getting him very nervous so to speak and as I said also picked up about it and it was playing out with the years of shemitah and all these types of things such as this could come out of and then he wants to buy ice a stickle Tire also with this type of thing such as they know this they said of course you can't change all of a sudden there's Louis gonna find that uh of the gemara says Usher and everywhere else says you're going to change says that no one ever thought such a thing here was a case where he had a Schmucker sticker which happens people do this also many um without saying any names or examples a lot of times people have a stickle tire and then they cat they want to find a hat to hang it on so they say ah and they make a deacon around them so he was making a deal mean to say is it was not opposition against the liquidation okay now so this is um as you say uh just a suggestion um and take it or leave it it is no amount insulted if someone does not go for it now just to conclude with two three other very short protem and that is his fouls but we see from here that there's a certain thing from the hasanish that that a gamara that over the years that Hashem is um were preserved he wouldn't make that people are learning the wrong thing we see all types of shyness in this piece that they cut out and they put in covets igress held very strongly that the what we have what preserves what state is very important okay la maisa there is another letter in gimbal but and again they don't tell you what is going on and so far I've not been able to locate it where again he talks about gearsalis and changing gear size it's a very important letter found in gimmel cinnamon base hopefully I'll maybe be able to discover what's going on and then um report back okay the last naku this is his files that which is like this the We Ready quoted uh more than once says the um we're trying to understand what has what's the what's bothering about manuscripts so lamasho I I said the 3D Asian a lot of tour of Herzog literally right after a mama's short time after he talks about the sheets and he says foreign these are very very carefully used words um which I hope to discuss but in short here we see there's something about the power of the base Yusuf that's how this radiation okay now to be Messiah was like this one of the places that the kazanish had a whole view on the back and forth with someone about about the sugya of manuscripts even though it was a side Pratt in the sugya so to speak but in the end they discuss all different things wrote a piece about client and if they know you have to be observed climb or not published this piece and there was a yid in the neighborhood at the time it was a talmud and he wrote achuva on the topic um it seems he uh and he had they had a letters back and forth on this okay and um eventually eventually we have the whole um we have the whole correspondence we don't sorry we don't have the whole kind of sounds we have a lot of the correspondence you know always the you get a trickle over here a letter over there a paragraph over there paragraph over there and the point was that claimed that there's no such thing as there's only one of them and this is the pastures of ligamara okay and then there is literature starting from ashultis and a bahag to make matters worse Enoch literature and other wish it him to start seeing that the case could be made the client is okay so they're having this theme back and forth this year in this and it's published in a Hebrew of his um called the have Earths anyway um what I found fascinating is then the chorus of this conversation he writes back to him about now mind you just to point this out at one point Robin hanano gets mixed into the occasion and she has a whole Mahala Khan explained that remain and doesn't tell Rudolph Shapiro oh don't rely on durability this goes to prove the sheeta that I said the Khazana if it's knickered to him that a certain piece is Ms then he's gonna be mefarious there was also a piece of God that this doesn't say don't rely he has explanation to say that you're learning wrong shot in this this piece of guidance but over here in this promise with this yid he says it's full of mistakes you can't rely on it then he says Ah you tell me there's a shelter he says there is they would have seen it so if they didn't bring it down then he uses the concept of Allah and in the these back and forth between the Khazana which is published some of its Publishers in the hazardation client they added in parts and in this of this yid um the the material the materials it has and you can see what's going on is that this person dug up a bunch of each items doesn't care he has a way to get out of them but the point over here is interesting the Khazana doesn't say that um well one at one point which I found very interesting and it's his files so so first I said Robina canano he dismisses the shoulders he has a way out of bahagi is aware but this person's bringing all the reshaiden so at one point this person writes back to hazenshin doesn't get an answer you're relying on a ritva when did the ritva get printed you don't like throwing a karate this person was I even on such a point which I really point at earlier when do you think all these Farms are getting published says some type of line you're following two three lines which also is deep and requires saying saying a lot over here which I'm not going to try to even explain can my riff Rush rambam mission okay then he says some other lines and then he says so it doesn't change that you're publishing that's what he says to this person okay well mice as I said in the first few episodes slow down when exactly are these hiburum published when do you think the ramban raspberry published it's it's it I mean to say if we go like the three the Asia's learning shot in the base Yusuf that is if so then we would have something to work with but that's not true because it hasn't just adding in the ramban razran so you know we discussed in the first few episodes these are brand new discoveries and every sector we have an old off we discussed as far as we see when this are coming out so what what's up is that these are the Messiah these are not how does this work it's a very it requires a lot of beer what the Khazana is saying over here and Lamesa um and will will be masterless a drop in the next episode but in a different letter we're explaining what the sheets so he bring he actually has a letter from the Khazana Guru and he talks about about the kiss Fiat and the hazard seems to say that we don't rely on these new materials and that's a whole different reason which we'll see what the tune says in the in the next episode but the point is like this well um just to sum up what I'm trying to bring out from the story of Klein the story is that that we have a Pumas which hasn't said something but it's very important is like this learned very well and the gamaras and if you go ask someone how many myths are there the seven minutes now what's interesting is like this there's a gemara hulun that seems to say and I think it's Sadiq base that says that they have 30 minutes right away over the arashi says he doesn't know what what 30 minutes on the side of the gemara batal ransberg sends you to ramami panu ramami Pano tries to make a Hajj on what 30 minutes okay but where is this coming from LA maisa today we have I randomly discovered um came across this this is beyond is pulling out I have a few copies of the Journal called C9 that came out in 1973. I'm looking at it for completely different reason I see over here it says Schleich and as I said this piece talks about the schultes the bahag that they also learned up I mean say this was aware of the others he and in this piece he deals with different things and he says it's fascinating to see the khasner says um something of I don't like to get into um nothing ever comes from it um he basically doesn't everyone has preconceived notions they're not going to get him it's not going to help to have an argument but when I say here he does attempt on some level to explain in the story of client as being and I quoted some of his points over here so he basically had a a gemara with samru shainam had to learn Optus Kamara so then he said um we he says some type of lotion that um if you have it's not just um um he talks about do you weigh up to reside the point is that he's aware of all the different things and he has a a very good clear mahalak had to read this Kamara it requires to understand exactly how the Khazana versus everyone else and that's when he says he throws in their hagav hesitas about the manuscripts and about which we show him to use and stuff like that okay anyway this is um to basically wrap up and I will deal with a little bit more later on is that to see that is beyond complex I've definitely not resolved it I've definitely made it much more confusing than if it was beforehand but I'm trying to show is that the kazanish is someone and I quoted Allah says in in one of the in the one of the countries you have to read him he was talking about recite him and other things but you have to read him and maybe then you could be Ahmed on what he says and even here when you put together the whole story it's a very very complex to try to come up with what is the bottom line and to use as clallim in how to look at these manuscripts okay now the next episode I hope to have some husband to put in context the shita sahasanesh and with that it will help us get um get at we're going out of this Rabbit Hole we've gotten to the top and to go further into water and the influence the next episode we'll discuss all this okay wow fascinating I think this is a record I did not interrupt you and disturb you once it was just the Beyond fascinating so now we're looking forward to obviously to the next episode and I like the way you summed it up that has an issues in his regular reading his farm are complex so it's not surprising that understanding is going to be complex as well okay so we're looking forward to getting more of a clearer understanding and some more context in the next episode now for the major reveal the grand reveal as Rabbi Dr Brut is going to turn around and pull out one of the many sparm that we get a small glimpse of and tell us what's on store for today okay so this time we're going to discuss the safer very briefly it's called Emily active and for us Americans that is should be automatic we should know what that is Amos Lee active looks like this this is from the great Rebecca Kaminsky one of the daily limb of America after the war the only haddar of America and what this work is as fouls around schwa's time I've mentioned already I've confessed openly a few times already mask here but I do look at the mishbacha magazine a little bit from time to time my job is also a little bit they had a write-up about different swarm um that are being worked on about to come out and they mentioned that there's a the endlessly active it's finished I'm like wow I emailed right away I'm explaining a second what that means I email right away the person who worked on it who was Robert kamenetsky the anikovnetsky is it out could you get it already there's no it's going to be Alpha safer which is right now coming to conclusion today tomorrow and talk of the first day of schwa say if I was in this Farm Store some weird chance and I the safer came the first day I said yeah and I bought it and what is it so basically like this Rebecca everyone knows so let me frame the question Emma has been out for a very very long time alatera so what's this big headache that you found new emissions oh and so you're asking very good so like this a few years ago comes out volume two of Ms Lee active but where's volume one everyone starts asking is there only one says they found the volume one is going to come out after volume two not so common such a thing but they wanted to put out something ready so he put our volume two so a few years ago volume two Rebecca turns out kamleski gave sheer on and they were recorded and the recordings ended up by Ernesto comnetsky who gave it to his son and he literally with love of the of his great data he transcribed them he went through them hundreds of footnotes to understand what they're not probably not such great recordings there's something called tape recorder I don't know if everyone's familiar and he transcribed these um sheer so just for context you're nothing kamenesky the famous author of making of a goddal which perhaps Rabbi brother has hiding somewhere in that in that editor of his um we're not going to say publicly and just briefly what is volume 2 mean over volume one is it later on yeah it gets to the end of now basically basically so volume one starts with an introduction about the importance of learning people familiar with knows know that reactivatesu is very into the significance of it he was also into the significance of learning dick took so in this introduction he talks a little bit about that and then he starts going through say for Yeshua slowly not like three little Harrison Columbus and he ends off interestingly enough with Ramba malachim it seems that after he gave the shirim he um he gave Shear on rambam okay now in the I can't cause an avalanche but the other volume he deals with the rest of and the record over here this volume is how many pages this is over there's almost 700 pages and even if someone's not into that if someone's internet this is excellent material he Rebecca was wearing to Dick the keys into the truck Power plays out all these types of things and sometimes he has long agos about different interesting things which as as as I'm looking all of a sudden I'll see wow and and sometimes he would say stories and he would put this this he he put everything in there he just tries to keep the top part to be the Tyra part and the bottom part should have all the solid topics and other things now and then and I did not know this at the time and as I started looking through it randomly I see the end has a true very back of relating to a few topics and what sorry one topic then it talks about um reactive and Mendelssohn a whole arigoski spoke about it a few different times it seems he collects those times and he deals with it by Rico's and he has a nice amount of pages the yachas to Moses Mendelssohn which I found that to be very interesting he's confronting it and dealing with it at length so what does he say about the beer of Mendelssohn and the Cambridge Valium we're safer no I can't I can't say I want you to buy the volume I want them to get business even though they're not it's not a paid advertising but anyway it also has a chapter of Rebecca Netsky a speech that he gave about the significance of history of learning history a very nice speech that he gave at a at a tour of Missouri convention and it ends off with a hesper he gave on the satma Reba and some other materials so all in all this is fasting safer whether you're learning that carefully and you want to have a great goggle such as react kamenetsky to as a companion a little bit or you like reactant is here you have this massive six almost 700 page work that just came out and that was the work that we decided to talk about today um for this uh nakuda okay thank you very much so if you're still listening hope you enjoyed a little extra segment and we are wishing everyone a wonderful day looking forward to the next episode