The challenge of rabbinic leadership part 2 | Rabbi Shai Finkelstein July 14 2026

Okay. Hello everyone. Uh so this is the last and uh this is the entire Rio is sponsored in Le and in memory of Melania by their families. Okay. So we are continuing from last week. Can you hear me now? Okay. You can hear me now. Okay, good. So last week we uh analyzed this uh well-known gum regarding Kam and Bama and we presented few options to see it differently than uh we used to see hopefully uh we spoke about uh who exactly uh was the one to invite the people why and how this story basically tried to explain which means try to understand a verse from that basically says what that praiseworthy is a person who's always afraid but someone who harden his heart can basically trap and uh and uh and and fall or or he can fail. So we spoke about it a lot last week and this week I would like to conclude with some relevant lessons for us. Okay. So, turn to page three because we saw everything until now. Rhenin. You see Rhenin on page three. Uh, no more. Uh, okay. There we go. Let me see. Maybe uh >> no one Rohenkin says the following says this is my fear says Rahen when we get to the three weeks and this is my fear. What is his fear? If the beta mikdash was destroyed for a specific reason, we could hope that we don't have that scene or if we have we will fix it. But according to the second beta mikdash was destroyed despite the fact that what that we had and everything. By the way, just as a side note, I know all of you are going to quote for me that you know the first beta mdash was destroyed because of and the second betdash because of I invite you to look at and then you will find other reasons that they didn't give enough that they basically didn't want to insert any compassion in their judgment and because they didn't give uh no compassion to the widow and to the orphan which means basically every rabbi came along and tried to address the community and the society based on the issues that they had. So really indashi we don't we know for sure there was how do we know we also know that there was what we saw you read okay we can assume and sometimes you know even we have a story here and a story there that can basically reveal it but mikdashi the second bet mdash we really don't know what was quote unquote the reason that uh because of it the beta midash was destroyed. Okay. So says Rob Henin. This is basically the lesson from the story of Ka and Bakansa based on what we said that you remember who basically said no no but he never gave an alternative and the didn't react what Barca was treated terribly. So he says it was a mistake in leadership. It's interesting. It's division. I'm not talking about 2026 now yet. I'm that what I'm saying. I think the the the the importance of this story to us is incredible. We have a tendency to say orus okay ord and that will solve all issues partially true there's also need to be what now he doesn't say that there was no leadership he says what there was a mistake now even if you have great leaders they can also what make mistakes this is part of being a leader you make decisions based on the information that you have and you take responsibility when it walks and you take responsibility when it does not. Okay, that's what you do. So says Hankin which is incredible comes to teach you that even in a case that not everyone is righteous and not everyone is not righteous. You can never trust God 100% that he's going to what? To save you from your own mistakes. Meaning sometimes Hashem will allow you to what? To make mistakes. You can be the most righteous person on earth. But Hashem is not there to always guarantee your decisions because the minute he will do it, you lose what? So now he's going to describe the catch 22 which is it's a very difficult and severe um um it's a a what >> a message lesson. We want to be secured. We want to be safe. We want to be assured. Now, I don't think the Jews and non-Jews are so different. I think it's a human tendency. Everyone would like to be sure. Okay? You want to test for it? Go to a airport and you will see that there is a delay and you'll see how people >> get nervous, >> get crazy. Okay? All of us Jews, non-Jews alike, everyone rush into the front desk and start saying this and that and the other and everyone is taking off his phone and they're trying to get the agent or whatever it is. And why? Because we want certainty. The idea of is the uncertainty. And he says which means This is another incredible insight to society. He says some people think that if they will follow their teaching from their yeshiva uh from their teacher from their rabbi from their mentor so then he doesn't need to be afraid. Now the word afraid maybe it's not the right word does not need to be um >> anxious >> anxious uh had doubts or something like that. Some some people really fully believe that if they will follow what they were told everything will fall in place. >> Welcome to reality. But people live their lives like that for decades for generations. People think that mashaya who whatever was that will be and they ignore the circumstances says says you can't trust you can rely on one way especially when it comes to what to a sak when there is danger to amide In my opinion, it's around the 70s, 80s maybe. >> I think it's the same of if I'm not mistaken. I might be wrong. >> Who do you think is it? Since you >> there is another ofin from Nishmat >> from Nishmatan Hankin's husband. No, no, that's the >> that's the son. >> There is the grandfather Benim. There was the father Rav Henin who his wife is Robanit Henin from Nishmat. And then there was often who was murdered >> is Yehuda. So the idea is and this is I think what I want you to let's now read the story based on this interpretation. >> Okay. Very good. We have a builtin conflict in our religious life. Religious people that tell you that they have no conflicts and there's no tension in their life. I don't know what kind of a religion they have. pills. They take pills. >> I don't know really. I would love to have one but I know that it does not exist. Okay, I know it does not exist because Raf Salvetic has a very beautiful essay. I forgot the name of the essay but he says if anyone think that religion that even the even Judaism is a is a is a a land of it's a it's a a source of stability. He says you have no idea what you what you're talking about. Religious life is a life that every day you are challenged. Every day you have doubts. Every day you need to make decisions. Every every day you need to make choices. Okay? Nothing is just paved for you. You have Torah, you have mitzvot, you have hokeim. Obviously there is a a road map but no one tells you what you need to do A, B and C. You choose to do A. There are consequences to you could choose B. B have also consequences. The idea is so you have come and you have the event, right? Okay. Whoever it was, he made a decision to do what? To go and to humiliate this guy. Baramsa also made a decision. What was his decision? To start arguing instead of what? >> Okay, say I'll go. I'll deal with you after. Okay, I'm going. You know what? It's like I don't need to be invited. You don't want me here. Goodbye. See you later. >> I I'm going to do tomorrow dinner and you're going to be what? The only one who I'm not going to invite. Said I'm going to put an ad in the newspaper that I hate you. Said you don't need to to sit there. A B the rabbis. The rabbis also made a decision. Then their decision was >> indecision which means I'm not going to get involved. Right? What was the what are the consequences of it? So on one hand it's playing safe. We didn't say a thing, right? I didn't show up to the Knesset to vote. Abstain, which means I don't really have an opinion. There is no such a thing. No opinion is also an opinion. That's it. You are just afraid to say your opinion or to be on the record for an opinion. We don't appreciate it. You have an opinion, say it. You don't have an opinion, say it. So the idea is what is that the rabbis decided not to have an opinion. Bansza made a decision. He went to Roman Caesar. Roman Caesar. He really should not be blamed unfortunately. Okay. But he should not be blamed. Bakansa goes back and he makes a decision. He's going to give this blemish sacrifice to to the rabbis and let them decide. In a way, he puts them to the task again. Make a decision. And the rabbis, at least the storyteller tells us that the rabbis what? Try to what? To wait. What's better? To bring the sacrifice the way it is and we will appease the Roman Caesar. Or should we kill Bansa and then the Roman Caesar would not know says what? If you're going to bring the sacrifice with the blemish, people would say that what that you can bring sacrifices with blemishes. If you're going to kill balcansa, people would say what that you execute people who put a blemish in the cobban. So we can do that in a way there is little bit of a progress with the rabbis. They were about to what? To make a decision. The only thing is that their willingness to make a decision met what oppositional stood and basically was the opposition. Now what's the point of the story >> before that? Now says no. They say yes one of those options needs to happen. Now what do we expect the rabbis to do? choose stand and say okay do you have other suggestions if not you are overruled and we're going to choose one of these two you want to agree great you don't go home right we would expect them to do now what to make a decision what do they do they go back to what they did before in a way they were saved by the bell okay they were saved by Zahara they don't need to make a decision He's the one according to Raban that he is the reason for what? For everything. The destruction of the betamed, the burning of the city, the expulsion from the land of Israel. Why? Because he in a way trapped the rabbis. Not that he excused the rabbis, but he says he trapped the rabbis into a condition that what? That they couldn't come up with a third um a third option. And in a way they were stuck. If that's true, Rahen is bringing up a new idea and he says when it comes to decisions, everyone think that he or she has the right way because I was taught like that by my mentor, by my rabbi, my my yeshiva, by my whatever. And one of the in my opinion one of the most important things is to know there is not only one way. I think as parents grandparents we definitely learn it but in rabbis teachers but life there is no one way. It's not one size fits all, you know. It's like a doesn't work like that. Therefore, we're going to bring to all everything to the surface. What about what about sometimes you know what say sometimes just you know obstain don't do it. The answer is says there is time for everything. There is time to be quiet. There is time to talk. There is time to stand up. There is time to submit yourself. But you need to know what's the right timing. That's also a decision which is probably one of the most difficult things to do. >> So um the question was did say that they made the wrong decision? The answer is no. We don't find it. I will tell you that Khaz later on criticized rabbitic decisions for example I'll give you one of the most famous ones according to one version and the other version is someone else an amora but even if it's an amora I don't really care he criticized Raban Benzakai's decision Benzakai was able to be smuggled outside of Yoshalam went and met with the Roman and represent Thor. And then he told him, "You're going to be the the Caesar blah blah blah." He says to him, "Okay, what do you want?" He asked for what for Yav and you bring him and you cure him. That sounds great, right? Which means it's basically was maybe 100 years. Um, yeah, maybe 100 because Yeah. I mean I can tell you exactly was murdered in 135. He was according to the tradition 120 years which means he was born in uh 15 right? Yeah 15. Okay. And he criticized Raban Zakai. So Raban Zakai was we know that Betamdash was destroyed when 70. Okay. Okay. So asked for y when before. Okay. So let's say it was 50. Okay. So was 30. So let's say he criticized zakai the day the day before he died. Okay. So it's not more than 100 years later that he criticized him. If it's an amora, we're talking about 200 or 300 years later. But what was the criticism? The criticism began with the interpretation of the puk. What is people who are smart, who are wise, God brings them back. Meaning God in a way takes away their wisdom. Why? Because when he was asked, okay, you have one wish. What do you want? He should have asked for what? destroy the bullies. Romans soldiers come along. We will identify for you all those rebels who are against everything and even according to our sages. Take them, destroy them and leave with beta mikdash with us. That's what's the criticism. >> Who? >> No. Not about that. Well, he criticized him. Not criticized, he was concerned that he took the presidency of the Sanhedrin even though he's not from the tribe of Yehuda. >> That was his problem. But just a second. The idea is what is that? Yes, there is some kind of a an analysis from Eara and they say it's not a Monday morning quarterback. It's just I look at what Raban Zakai was able to do to accomplish and he missed it. So the says didn't think that he can ask for it. You know how you know? >> Try. >> Just try it. Try it. Ask him. He can tell. You know. Yes. >> Mama. >> I don't know. You know, I I know what you're talking about. Midashim says that 80 years before the beta mikdash was destroyed the doors start being opening and then the all sorts of signs but I don't know because many times also when you bring different agot they might contradict each other so I I really don't know okay so that's Rohenim and I think the relevancy to us is is tremendous it's not being political it's just about looking at the reality it's not only aut It's not only about unity. It's also about leadership and willing to make decisions with the understanding that not every decision will lead you to the promised land. And then what do you do? Yes. >> Yeah. There is definitely a connection between both of them. There is reciprocity between them. That's true. Okay. Now, that's so he says the following. And look at the question. It's a question, but he derives an answer from our story. The question was He says regarding the is to instill fear in your congregation and also not to create illusions. That's what he's talking about. It says like that says, "I looked at the saw and is blaming that he is the reason for what? The destruction of the mikdash and the burning of the city and the expulsion from the country." He says, "But truthfully, for says I don't know what what do you want from you blame him to be the sole reason for everything terrible that happened to the Jewish people what did he do he just recited the do you bring a Quran that has a blemish. The answer is no. Do you kill someone who put a blemish in someone's else's? The answer is no. So what do you want from him? >> He didn't take into account the danger of the situation and he was just very narrow. >> Okay. So that's A and there is a B going to be a part B. He says to kill him. He says, "What do you want from him?" Not to say the And even you know what and even if he didn't fit the to the circumstances, the rabbis also had a chance to what? To say no. And then and also says also says that meaning the fact that was humble that was the cause. Where do you see humility here? So therefore but rather it seems was very humble and because he was so humble he couldn't fulfill his position. What was his position? He was the leader. A leader definitely must be humble but he also needs to know what >> when humility is not good for you. Being humble is great, but if you always think about yourself as a you shouldn't be a leader says which means what did he do because he was so humble he always what put into consideration what people will say you know how are we going to be perceived for generations to come there is always safety cake. Now, anyone who makes piscala knows that what that you need to be very careful. You need to have a lot of doubts. You need to be afraid of making a sac. It's not like that. But at the same time, if you are in a position of a pos, what do you need to do? >> Exactly. If you can't, if you don't have it, >> don't be a you can be a it doesn't mean that you are not. you're just not the that's fine. No one is going to look at you uh in a different way. But don't put yourself in a position of a decision and then you can't make it. says he says look at the drama here is humble guy humble person humble scholar and he and has a discussion what to do but at the same time call is bak everyone understand that if I don't bring that sacrifice somehow We are gone. That's it. So we all know that the Roman Caesar expects what? To get a report that his urban was accepted. He says, "I'm not against opposition to the rabbis." Says, "You think they are wrong. You think the rabbis are wrong. Tell them you are wrong. You can't lead by not making a decision. only by saying >> what not which by the way not being political but being realistic you see something so bad in Israel and in the states rabbi rallo Trump meaning I'm not going so in in America there is no coalition but when you talk to people it's not about content it's just what >> what I'm not not what you are for what do you stand for but what you don't stand for this is not a way to lead says you want to have an opposition to someone's opinion but you need to offer an alternative especially when you know that you are risking the entire Jewish people Do you think the decision? The decision was not the Jew. That was a decision. >> That's not a decision because Barca went back to the Roman Caesar and told him what the Jews rebelled. They I brought them the sacrifice. He forgot to tell him that they put a blemish, right? And they refused to bring a sacrifice which in ancient time it's whoa. I I am the conqueror. The land of Israel belongs to me. I'm telling you, you going to take this sacrifice. I didn't send you a pig. He sent him a kosher animal. He just made a blemish. So you tell me that you want you don't want to sacrifice my sacrifice. It means what? You rebel against me. But he was extra humble. He didn't see himself worthy of leading. We don't have this problem in the modern world, right? No leader does not think that he or she are not worthy to lead. Not in Israel and not anywhere on the globe. But heav he had this extra humility and he didn't see himself fit to lead. He says I understand you are correct. Really according to dry the best way will be. You are correct. However, this is not regular business. This is a time of this is a time that you need to declare war. You need to be the one to proclaim we have we have a different time were able to do it when when they said that what that you need to give your life even for the way you tie your shoes. Okay. Or alternatively pinas he saw what's going on. What did he do? Took the spear and did what he did. You remember the story about Hushiman? No. Okay. So he was at the funeral with for his grandfather Jacob. Asaf stands on Mara and says what? No I should be buried there not my brother bring me a deed that he bought it. Soali who is a good runner says oh I'm going to run to bring the deed who was deaf says what's going on here my grandfather is dead he needs to be buried. He has no clue what his uncle is saying right was his uncle. Okay, he has no idea. He says, "What's going on here?" Takes the knife, push, you know, take off Asab's head. They make the funeral and As of heads somehow gets there, too. Okay, so that's the story. But what's the idea? The idea is that sometimes you you need to do something. Sometimes we also so used to, you know, the considerations and then that it's paralyze you. And this is where the balance is between not to be too impetuous to decide at the same time not not to decide because a decision will be made with you or without you. Then he says and because he didn't want to be the one to decide to do this or that and he didn't allow others to follow their opinion meaning he did not allow their he could say look I have a doubt maybe yes maybe no and you know what I'm going to what to excuse myself he didn't he forced them to submit themselves to to him says even though he didn't see himself fit and worthy that was the cause for our destruction. Now this is little bit of a different lesson. Ravhen spoke about a mistake in leadership. He's talking about what? running away from leadership because of what humility but at the same time if is so humble you know what he should have done you know rabbis you came up with two options I don't really have two other options I think you are wrong but I can't ask you to what to change or to submit yourself to my will therefore go ahead do whatever you want but he didn't he didn't see himself strong enough to did but he saw himself strong enough to tell the rabbis don't do it and that was the cause for the destruction of the beam miktdash now obviously those are different interpretations but I think that the lessons for us are incredible religious life is not an easy life it's meaningful life it's faithful life. It's sometimes even enjoyable life most of the time, but it's definitely not an area that you can feel, oh, I'm secured and the path that I chose will lead me always to what to the promised land. It's not basically a in a way teaches us what the idea not only the idea of uncertainty it's much more than that it's the idea that even at times that we are almost sure that it's going to lead us to where it needs to be surprise surprise it might not so the story of Kamza and Bakamsa It's not just a story about two guys who don't you know get along with each other like what we used to learn in kindergarten and that as you saw I almost did not mention the concept of purposely because you don't need me for that you already your kindergarten teacher taught you that what I try to do is to present to you different perspectives on this story with obviously very much relevant lessons to try to understand that story and the relevancy to our days. Okay, questions. Yes. >> I see a problem in human beings trying to decide cause and effect why Hashem did something. >> Agree 100% don't like it either. Yes. >> Me? No. Yeah. I mean I agree. Meaning the question is who are you with all due respect to assign all this calamity on one person? What did you talk to God? Like God told you that. But I think that's why it's open to so many interpretations. The fact that you say something like that, especially when on the surface you don't even see it, it basically encourage you to to think deeper. Yes. the major decisions I had to make. One Shabbat, my friend comes and said, "I need the keys to your car." >> And I had to think, should I give her the keys? It turned out that her son was in a in an accident in the army and an ATV fell on him and she needed to go to the hospital. Then later they told me that before supersedes Shabbat. So I that's sometimes you have to make a decision very important could have consequences >> right the only thing is that if she will tell did she tell you that >> ah okay so that's pretty simple yes the last one was about his having but look at the case of when the second time around when his was taken away from him with he didn't do he had too much He didn't have enough anova and therefore was given tear and later on of course given back. So why can't you say that maybe the rabbis were not modest but maybe they had the opposite? Maybe they were had too much of themselves to think that they could control everything. Why do you have to say that they couldn't be like and say well I'm not going to go to I mean like I'm not going to go to because I'm the and he's only the show >> right but there there I think it's a little bit of a power struggle between these two here there's no power struggle if if they have a power thing if I was the one of the rabbis I would say do you have an option if you don't have an option don't be a a no man okay don't always tell me no okay we have we have an option you don't want to participate with us. Go home. >> Why could they have gone to Rome and said this is what happened? >> No, that's not happening. >> Why? >> Because we I don't think it will heal us. Right. >> The blemish was done in a way that according to Roman law, it's not a blemish. >> They have to tell them that this is the way we operate. And >> don't think it will help. >> I don't think it will help. I didn't send you a pig. >> I sent you an animal. Deal with it. Yes. What? >> You can. I'm not saying anything. I'm trying to be humble. very strict and somewhat >> uh well I will disagree with the last line there are things that are being done more quietly because everything that is the media it's not going to it's not going to be successful. It needs to go really beset. Um I don't know if I would know I probably would not be the rabbi here. Um no no being very honest I I don't know. Look also sometimes you need to know that there are unresolvable problems that probably will continue and you need to prepare yourself in different ways to deal with that. I'll stop there because I don't want to make a political speech. Last one. Yes. Oh, last one. Two. Like one, two. Yes. The pay that you mentioned in the beginning, the division. Was that also the given or the fact that they didn't recognize each other? itself, the Ka and Balans, there are two people and we decided last week that probably both of them supported the rabbis and because they were both very wealthy and in the nation itself you had camps and Kamsa hated Barcamsa hated the rabbis knew about it and they never did even one thing to what to try to mitigate the tension between them. Yes. They have to make a decision one way. >> Interesting. Yeah. Um, by the way, no. Okay, let's leave it like that. Okay, that's for today until uh next semester.