The Book of Esther Parts 4 and 5 - Rabbi Dovid Gottlieb

okay we're in chapter 4 we on page 1255 can I ask a a question sure sure so it says on 1253 that Mori adopted Esther as a daughter right yeah but it seems like you were implying yesterday that or not yesterday sorry like last week that really they were married so I didn't say really what I said was there is a difference of opinion about this subject whether they were really married or not before that he adopted her as a daughter you can't marry your daughter right yes that's true but we know who she was she was his first cousin we know that yeah okay and you can marry your first cousin you could and adopting someone doesn't change who you can marry so that's not really an issue but the point is that once you say he raised her then to say he took her as a daughter it's poetry and sometimes the texts do engage in poetry and then it says it again when she goes into a that he took her to be a daughter like so what what it got to do with her going into a so it sounds like the text is delicately indicating to you that there was more going on there than and I said it's a difference of opinion it's not proven not not the fact it's just this difference of opinion which means everything in the scenario has to be worked out both ways right okay now um so here we are at the very bottom of page 1255 and now starts a an Exquisite interaction between Mor and Esther which as I indicated last time is a model for husband wife relations for friendship for for sensitive interactions across the board anyway morai is crying in the streets wearing sackcloth and Esther has no idea why that's happening so Esther's mates and servants came and told her about it and the queen was greatly distressed she sent garments to clothe morai so that he might take off his sackcloth but he would not accept it now what's her interest here the reporters are coming from Vogue and you're not going to look good take pictures you know and you're going to be a scandal no we saw this in the immediately preceding paragraph uh beginning of chapter 4 M learned of all that have been done M tore his clothes put on sackcloth with ashes went out the midst of the city cried loudly and bitterly came until the front of the king's gate but only until the front front not even into the front of the gate for it was forbidden to enter the king's gate clothed with sackcloth so why is she sending a change of clothes so he can come in so he can come in and tell her that's why right and he says no I have to figure out why what what's what's the meaning of it if he's sending a signal what kind of signal is it so let's just put that on hold that's something that has to be understood okay then there's another way to get information through through a middle person um then as to summon hak one of the king's servants whom he had appointed to attend her and ordered him to go to morai to learn what this was about and why now in the Hebrew it's ma Al ma means what is this and Al means roughly what's it for what's its purpose what's its value what is its significance and well I've quoted my teacher ofis many times he wrote an essay on this subject and he pointed out that she's she's asking two different questions on two different levels and the important thing to notice that both are necessary one is what's happening you obviously understand that there's a terrible danger who are the enemies what kind of Leverage do they have what resources do we have how when is the what is the time schedule for the for the for the danger what is are the social political monetary economic military facts that go into the challenge we are discussing that's ma that's Maza that challenge we're facing that's what is it Al is what does want where does this fit into Divine Divine Providence and you need both now as a Pious person you'll say of course knowing all the physical facts isn't enough of course you have to know what wants that's quite true but the opposite is also true because if you know there is a failure somewhere and God wants us to do chuva that's not enough you have to know where the failure is you have to know what kind of repair is relevant for the failure you have to know what kind of danger you're facing because the danger itself will dictate how you look at the failure we'll talk about that in a few days so you need to know both the naturalistic features of the situation and also what the Divine Providence wants in the situation and that's why Esther in her sophisticated way says to okay so hak went out to morai unto City Square which was in front of the king's gate and I told him of all that had happened to him interesting happened to him and all about the sum of money that H had promised toay day to the Royal treasuries for the annihilation of the Jews somehow morai knows everything he even knows things that are completely private this business of offering the money was a private conversation between and so we have to understand that R was operating here because otherwise there was no way that he could know this now why does he want Esther to know about the proposed bride and he doesn't mention whether the king accepted it or not we know the king didn't accept it and we know why he didn't accept it but M didn't have to mention that because he's sending a signal to to to to Esther don't think we're going to get out of this by bribery it's not going to work because whatever money you'll you'll propose H will propose more he's into this he's willing to pay for it so that's not good leverage to think that you have a naturalistic solution he also gave him a copy of the text of the decree which is distributed in shush for the instruction so that he might show it to Esther and inform her now here's what Mor is telling Esther to do bidding her to go to the king to appeal to him and to plead with him for her people because there's no other choice there's no other way to do it that's the message that brings to es came and told Esther what Mor had said then Esther told asak to return to morai with the following message with this message all the king's servants and the people of the king's provinces are well aware that if anyone man or woman approaches the king in the inner Court without being summoned without being called there is but one Lord off for him that he should be put to death the king is in his inner Court he has been for a while when the King goes into the inner Court he's considering something of great importance great significance Great Value you don't interrupt it when he's there I to the point where if someone interrupts him the law says he should be killed now of course is an exception except for the person to whom the king shall extend the gold scepter so that he may live the king is in control of the law the king is not bound by the law the king could wave the law but the norm without making an exception is if you go in you're going to be killed and I have not been summoned to come to the king until the past 30 days so what ises this to say part of what she's saying is this you want me to go and appeal to the king you want me to make an appeal to him to cancel this decree when you make an appeal to someone you want to be on his good side you don't want to disobey his law in his face and say and by the way I have a tremendous favor I want to ask you that's not reasonable furthermore although she hasn't mentioned it but she saw from the paper and he knows also the decree is for 11 months from now 11 months that's a long time there is no doubt that sometime and the not to this in future he will call for me when he calls for me he wants me when he wants me then I have a position where I could arue I could discuss with him and I could I could make an appeal to him he wants other from me I want other from him you know that's a reasonable thing but to go in and create extra doubt extra damage extra Defiance and then ask for a favor it's not logical it's not logical okay now look at M's response I can't I'm not able to take M's response as fully true the way it's stated I I can't do it I looked in the commentaries I didn't see anybody who who did it maybe I'm missing something or missing something out of logic but I can't I can't do it so I hav going to interpret it a certain way I just came across a p in the Torah with the commentary say the way it's written can't be right so there such a thing could happen they related as's words to then M said to reply to Esther do not imagine that you will be able to escape in the king's Palace any more than the rest of the Jews no one knows who she is no one knows who she is so it's a decree against the Jews could happen that all the Jews will be killed and she'll be spared so she says don't imagine that you have that leverage to imagine you have that that that protection no that's a false imagination for if you persist in keeping silent at a time like this relief and deliverance will come to the Jews from some other place the Jews are not going to be destroyed Jews are not going to be annihilated while you and your father's house will perish if you don't go in to beg the king you and your father's house will perish and who knows whether it was just for such a time as this that you attained the Royal position we had no clue why you became Queen he here it is black and white this is what you need to do now when Mori says to her don't imagine that you'll be able to escape in the king's Palace I don't think that's what she's imagining and I don't think that's what morai is imagining that she's imagining that's just beyond belief she's not indifferent as to the fate of the Jews it's not fine with her that everybody should die and she'll just Escape in the palace that's for sure not but he is creating an imaginary alternative here to stress how serious this moment is how serious this moment is how does Mori have confidence that the Jews will be saved because he saw the response of the Jews in in chushan as soon as the decree was was promulgated and he knew about it with with the MS to decrees and so for and so on and he tore his clothes and what put on sa cloth and started wailing in the streets so did everybody else now of course he doesn't have SMS messages from all the provinces but he sees how the Jews in shushan responded if the Jews Like That throughout the Empire are going to respond like that they're not going to be an island that's for sure but you're here to be the instrument of this salvation if you don't do it somebody else will do it but you were put here to do it therefore you have to do it and if you don't do it then you and your father's house will will be destroyed now here I've told you many times I do the verses as they are verses in the in the in the text and I don't rely on midashim and so and so on just because I'm eer to the midashim but there is a midash here and it's of contemporary importance that I should mention this to you the mid describes how esta lived in the palace she's been in the palace for years um she only ate beans she only ate beans because she made sure that there would be kosher the only thing that she could get though she made sure there was beans she had seven Maids serving her one for each day of the week so that this one you know Esmeralda she's the chabas maid when she comes on duty she knows that it's chabas she kept chabas punctiliously now what does m say to her you keeping kous you're keeping shabas if you don't go into the king and plead on behalf of the Jews you're going to be destroyed which means that even though you're keeping shabas and keeping katas that won't save you it's not not as if to say that shabas and katas aren't important they are important and you be rewarded for them in the world to come but now I'm speaking the language of contemporary G there's something that could be called The Challenge of the generation that is the challenge that this generation has to address and if it succeeds then the generation will be successful and if not the generation will fail yes each individual will get the Merit for all the mitos that he did yes yes yes but this is the the difference between success and failure in this generation that's what m is saying to Esther and many G have said that the way in which the Jewish Community St stands up to the challenge of technology is the challenge of this generation yes we have yeshivas and we have kashes we have shuls and we have big V so we have lots and lots of wonderful things yes we do but they won't prevent a b a disaster if we fail in the challenge of the generation and the challenge of the generation is how we deal with technology I have a son who's working in this fulltime he's been doing so for for 15 years already and um he heard this from about Solomon he should be well other with whom he consults regularly okay so now but there's something else here why why is Mor coming down so hard on her to accusing her of this terrible lapse what you're going to hide in the palace and and the Jews will go down the drain and you when it isn't true I can't I can't imagine that it's true I can't imagine that it's true well let's see is it possible that morai sent Esther a signal and she missed it her response to M's communication shows she missed the signal let's go back he's running through the streets torn clothes sackcloth ashes and she sends him clothes send them clothes change your clothes and come into the palace and tell me what it's about how long will that take 20 minutes refuses what's the signal not even 20 minutes not even 20 minutes nothing can be wasted now the determining factor is now she sends back a message Mory we have 11 months you know I haven't been called in 30 days surely that's going to turn around you know next week next month says I couldn't take off 20 minutes to come in and see you you didn't get that you didn't hear that well then you're a little bit disconnected you're a little bit disconnected you're in the palace and being in the palace has dulled your sensitivities dulled your your your intelligence to read the signal that I sent you that is part of why he responds so bitterly and so strictly against her because he sees that there's this Gap this distance which prevents her from clearly perceiving the message that he sent you with me with me so far now watch how the situation balances out this I think is absolutely unbelievable so then Esther said the reply to M go assemble all the Jews to be found in shushan and fast for me I'm going to do it I'm going to go into the king go and assemble all the Jews and fast for me do not eat or drink for three days night or day 72 hours no food and no drink I with my Maids will Fast also then I will go into the king though it's unlawful and if I perish I perish okay that's what she says now the next words innocent words hide a secret Mor then left it exactly as Esther had commanded him but the the Hebrew says Mor passed over and did according to everything that Esther commanded him what did he pass over so the commentators who are interested chot said this was in the palace the palace had a moat you know what a moat is it's a ditch with water in it making it impossible to just charge an attack he passed over the bridge that there go over the moat and went out to to talk to the people could be could very well be you would have to ask why did the M bother to tell us that who cares whether he Quest over the mode or not the Meer says something else let's figure this out on what day of what month is all this is taking place the the 13th of Nissa H she says fast for me 72 hours that's the 14th the 15th and the 16th well gee the night of the 15th is the night of the Seder and the night of the 15th is a very important Mitzvah to do it's called matah they're engas right they they can't bring the cats that sacrifice in the temple but matah is a Biblical commandment to do on the night of the 15th she's saying to Mori all the Jews in shushan will not do the Mitzvah of matah the the medish has morai say to her I shouldn't have said it that way the M records what M said to her he said to her we're trying to make an appeal to the king the king is the sitting on the throne and the Creator will it benefit us to make this appeal by violating one of his Commandments how will that help the force of our appeal shouldn't we want to do the commandment and she says back to him you told me you couldn't wait 20 minutes because it's life and death now and if the if the decree goes through who will leave matah next year there won't be any Jews next year year so I tell you we have to fast now and in my terminology what she's saying back to morai is you missed your own signal you missed your own signal you said it's crucial the decision is being made now 11 months doesn't count you couldn't even take off 20 minutes I'm telling you that you shouldn't eat and drink either should fast now says means he passed over his her judgment he gave into to her he accepted her reasoning this means he said her signal and she missed it and when played back to him he missed his own signal in each case he corrects her when she misses the signal and she corrects him when he misses the signal not only that but look at the symmetry of the language the symmetry of language is unbelievable um look at verse eight morai in his first response to Esther came a copy of the decree which is for Destruction so he might show it to Esther Informer oh the English I think kills this yes bidding you don't know what bidding means oh you think this is an auction ah in the Hebrew it's to command her hello sending her a command go into the king and beg and beg for the Jews right okay what does it say in the last verse morai then left and did exactly as Esther had commanded Him He commands her and she commands him and they accept it from each other they accept their Mis their misunder understanding their mistake mistake in judgment each one accepts it from the other and that's how the Salvation takes place salvation takes place because of husband and wife working together each one honoring the other each one willing to listen to the other and change because of the perceptions of the other that's how a a successful successful outcome I think this is exquisite uh it's not unique there are other places where there are exchanges like this but here it's really right on the it's more or less on the surface and it's worth it's worth telling people about it especially people are about to get married going it's a beautiful passage yeah so it says over here that they were going to that Esther commanded him that they were going to fast at night also that's right it says day and night the words are there in the in the verse day and night how is it possible for somebody to go without water for three days usually now somebody would do that they would die you know you need to drink water no that's not true no no at least they would be very physic it depends on what they're doing also if they're lost in the desert and they're baking in the Sun and they're walking because they have to walk and they're not eating and drinking is one thing but if you know that that's what's going to happen and you and you take measures to be calm about it and so so I don't I don't think that that's true in fact very interesting the gor says about nador a person who takes a net not to sleep for three days and three nights you give him lashes right away because we know that's impossible he's made a n that's impossible to keep he's guilty of a false Neta right away you don't have to wait for him to drowse off and day two you know you don't have to you don't have to wait but doesn't say that about eating and drinking so I I think that physically it is possible okay okay now story continues chapter 5 now here we have a crucial bit of ambiguity which is is very important now it came to pass on the third day Esther dawned royalty that means she put on Royal clothes and stood in the inner Court of the king's Palace facing the King's house while the King was sitting on the throne in the throne room facing the chamber's entrance there's actually a picture of this in ancient Persian records and you see it a small room and he's sitting there facing the doorway and he has a very large golden scepter from the ground all the way up and at least if the if the dimensions in the picture are accurate you could take the scepter and lean it all the way to the to the entrance so that someone standing there could touch the scepter and be accepted even though normally they would be killed when the king noticed Queen Esther standing at the court she won his favor King extended to Esther's the gold sep scepter which is in his hand Esther approached and touched the tip of the scepter okay now you know what the scenario is from here on out she makes a banquet that this day and she invites the king and H and then she says to the king and H I want to make another banet tomorrow and tomorrow I'll do what I told the king I I've kept for the king my identity tomorrow is the climax and tomorrow that's when she identifies herself as a Jew and she pleads on behalf of the Jewish people so the question is when the text says here the third day and it's a third day for the first banquet which third day is that third day from what and there are two possibilities either it's the third day from the day on which they're sitting which is the 13th so it be the 14th 15th and 16th and then um I guess let me get this right let me get this right let make a mistake here um no the third day that's one possibility four 16th or it's the third day counting the 13th 13 14 and 15 13 14 and 15 makes perfectly good sense because that means on day 15 which is the second day of the fast she'll go in the first time and that time she'll say come to the banquet tomorrow no one cares that she isn't eating at the banquet right remember she's there as a bobble of beauty and charm that's all right the 15th is the second day of the fast that's the first that's the first banquet the second banquet the climax that's the banquet at which she's going to ask for Mercy for the Jewish people and that's at the climax of The Fast that makes perfectly good sense that's one way of reading third but the other way of reading and the commentators are split the other way of reading third is the third day of the fast so that means this time the first time she goes in is the 16th already the third day of the fast and what does she do she goes in and she says let's have a a bank and at the banquet he says come tomorrow and the next day which now will be the 17th the next day she reveals that she's Jewish and pleades on behalf of the Jewish people that's hard to understand that day the 17th the day in which she's making her plea on behalf of the Jewish people the people are eating pizza and pepperony and slimy sandwiches and they broke the fast last night wouldn't you want to have maximum Merit at the moment of The Plea on behalf of the Jewish people why would you do it after the fasting is over the answer is something very very profound yeah that's right the day after the second banquet is when The Plea to is going to be made to uh to save the Jewish people but the first day now when she goes into the inner sanctum without being called this is when the outcome is being decided this is the T the The Tipping moment if she gets in now it's all over tomorrow is just an after thought it's it's a given it's it's it's it's guaranteed why because the king is sitting on the throne now the king not king of the king and we said when it says the king it's referring not only to but to the creator also and he's sitting in a place where he's making strict judgments he's not planning parties for the people he's deciding something with the strictest judgment and he's holding a golden scepter gold is the color of strict judgment and there's a law the law is if you go in you die you have the entire power of strictness in play here and she comes against the law and appears if she passes that test if he accepts her he hands her he leans over to her the golden scepter and she touches it it's over the drama is over the rest of it is guaranteed that's why this would be on the third day of the fast and tomorrow when she pleads on behalf of the Jewish people yeah they're eating pizza perfectly all right because the drama is over and it's a very very profound slightly cabalistic interpretation but the the commentaries in shot are divided as to whether it was the third day of the fast or the third day counting the day on which the events were taking place so you have to explain it both ways I think that's a very very profound idea are we together okay now verse three again the king said to her oh well we didn't do this before yet what is it for you Queen Esther and what is your petition even in behalf the king it shall be granted you now he asks her two questions here and you'll see this goes this repeats a number of times he asked two questions in this case what what is it to you meaning like what's bothering you what's on your mind what's what do you want for that there's no low limitation and then he say and what is your petition so there must be two things something that you want and a petition and for the petition he says up to half the kingdom and will be given to you so for the petition whatever it is there's a limit that's up to half whereas if it's something that you want there's no limitation whatsoever the understanding of it the understanding of it is this yes there are two different ways in which a person could maybe there more than two but she could want something for herself a palace a mink coat who knows more servants you know he says whatever you want Esther it's yours I have no limitations what I we give to you petition something that deals with politics something that deals with social policy economics War and Peace don't destabilize the kingdom don't destabilize the kingdom leave the majority in place I can't can't tolerate that you you could be Esther in all in capital letters in red doesn't matter whoever you are don't destabilize the kingdom that I'm not going to accept they I'll say no to you also so you see again how he's concerned about his position Visa the population and even for Esther he puts a limitation on and says no that I can't take even for you so look how she answers for if it pleased the king if it pleased the king I'm here cuz he wants only to act out his pleasure I know that I no standing No Authority no position nothing zero I'm a bble so I'm if it please the king because I know that's all that matters all that matters is that what happens please the king let the king and H come today to the banquet that I prepared for him I'm making a banquet for the king so the king is not that dope he understands that that's not what she came risking her life to do to invite him to lunch he understands something else is involved and this is like the Prelude and he's right okay the king commanded tell H to hurry fulfill Esther's wish so the king came to the banquet that Esther prepared then King said to Esther during the feast what is your request it shall be granted you and what is your petition oh excuse me so I don't know maybe they're quoting some commentators but uh the commentators that I that I I understand is not not what what they wrote here this is the repeat it's not that he giving up on the condition of half the kingdom he's saying up to half the kingdom yes but not more he's repeating it he's not changing his mind so again there's there's a request for you no limitations a petition up to after the kingdom and not more so asther answered and said my request to my petition you're right King you're right I have two things on my mind something for myself and something that has social implications if I have won the FA King's favor because everything depends upon his favor the only thing that matters is he likes it he wants it that's all nothing not Justice and and long-term consequence no no I just want to please the king she knows her lines and pleases the king to grant me my request to perform my petition again request of petition so you see this is this is important he said it and she's imitating it over and over again let the king and H come to the banquet that I shall prepare for them and tomorrow I will do the king's bidding I will do according to the word of the king now this is is utterly mysterious in this chapter you have no clue what she could possibly be talking about obviously he wants something from her and she hasn't she hasn't done it so he says she says tomorrow I'll do it right now we saw already at the beginning that she hid her identity and we saw that took measures to try to discover what her identity was including measures that would might frighten her and he got nowhere so this is an outstanding problem and she you know he wants it and she's saying no that's all and she has enough charm that he doesn't want to give her up but it's it's a thorn in his side and she says tomorrow I'll do the king's SP this is not what she wished to Li for H lunch today lunch tomorrow and tomorrow tell you what this is not what she he knows that he knows something else is in the in the offering here so but he's patient he's patient the bank was so nice anyway you know yeah um says I'll do the king's bidding but I thought the king is trying to do Esther's bidding well that's not a contradiction is it I do for you what you want you do for me what I want no but well business is based on that the king is the king is waiting for isn't the king waiting for her to say oh you like what do you want she knows what he she knows what wants he he was dying to know who she is he gave he he gave debt relief to the provinces and and and Gifts all over the kingdom to get people to talk everybody should know and be talking about the fact that he's married what she means by the king's bidding the king's bidding is he wants to know who I am okay and told me don't do that so I didn't do that tomorrow she says what you've wanted for years already tomorrow you'll have it tomorrow I'll tell you who I am right but that's not her purpose in risking her life to have lunch today lunch tomorrow and tell them who she is she didn't risk her life for that obviously she wants something and she said my request to my petition and she hasn't me mentioned what they are yet so there's unfinished business here of course it's going to be to plead on behalf of the Jewish people but um so that's that's um that's the what she says at the first banquet okay now that day har went out joyful and exuberant man a man is she he's on top of the world he'll he'll give you a list of all the things that are good for him in a moment on top of the world but when H noticed Mori in the king's gate and that he neither stood up nor stirred before him H was infuriated with Mori nevertheless H restrained himself and went home again because as he said the first time it would be be small small-minded insignificant and would cause him crushing social disappointment if he took a measure against M alone so he doesn't want to do that he sent for his friends and his wife zish notice the order friends first and wife second and hon recounted to them the glory of his wealth and of his many sons and every instance where the king had promoted him and advanced him above the officials and Royal servants hman said moreover Queen Esther invited me no one but myself to accompany the king to the banquet that she had prepared and tomorrow too I'm invited by her along with the King yet all of this means nothing to me so long as I see that Jew morai sitting at the king's gate now as you know probably my view of psychologists is not wholly trusting I think there are all sorts of critiques that could be leveled against the psychological establishment but boy oh boy do we need a psychologist here this guy has everything tell me that your life isn't perfect it isn't perfect have all these wonderful things but it bothers me that M doesn't bow I hear that I hear that I could also hear if it wasn't Dr but I could hear it but all this it means nothing to me nothing could be an instance of what they call perfectionism you know if isn't perfect then it's worthless any fly in the ointment worthless but that's a sickness that's a psychological sickness so I think that that it's it's very very extreme this this statement that H is making I have mentioned to you I'm going to just tell this thing then I'll take a question maybe 20 years ago I was teaching this and there was a beginner in the room and he said Rabbi you told us that when it says the king without saying it refers to both the flesh and blood king and also to the creator of the universe here it says M says all this is means nothing to me when I see Mor the Jew sitting at the king's gate H which king is that is this's gate or maybe in addition at the Gate of the Creator and he said what what hum is bragging of there verses in Jeremiah about this ra writes about this in theim and the guy the perplexed what he's bragging about is Earthly Earthly success when the person is close to the creator of the universe his success makes any Earthly condition zero makes it zero is that just yeah I'm have 62 and this makes it 92 and it adds on it's nice and maybe it's bigger than each individual feature or maybe that was 32 and this is 92 because it's 60 no no closeness to the creator of the universe makes everything else zero and H knows that he knows that he knows that Mori is sitting at the Gate of the king of the universe and that perspective infects him from that position where everything that I have is worthless it kills him it kills him this was said by a beginner I think think I mean he said it without my drama I realize that but it was said by a beginner I thought that was a brilliant brilliant suggestion with truth to it so this is where H is is holding because M isn't bowing it deprives him of satisfaction from the whole of his success yes you wanted to ask a question uh yeah um the way it seems he seems very uh um I can't forgot what the word is I wouldn't say emotional but he's he's very like dramatic when when something goes his way or when something doesn't go his way well I think that's right and just from the fact that before it says he went out joyful and exuberant yeah and then oh as as high it was before it can also be immediately just as low that's a nice observation I didn't notice that that's a nice observation he's described in emotional terms so that that I mean there are psychological there's probably some sort of condition where someone's like bipolar is it bipolar I don't think so because it happened by was caused by external circumstances but I don't know bipolar well enough I I can't say it could very as far as I don't know enough to say yeah now this is always hard for me to understand about people like bam and ham and you know evil people who knew that God according to this explanation he knew that God existed and he knew that Hashem was going to reward Mori and not him so why didn't he do shua there is a statement even at the entrance to they don't do ch um see I've had a case recently um let's say take you catch somebody doing something wrong sometimes they try to justify it some they try to rationalize it they don't want to admit that they've been caught now that's a weakness but it is a natural human response I saw this when I was a professor at Hopkins people would come to the department to read papers professors and we would listen and we would react um the professors at Hopkins were pretty good and The Graduate students some them were really pretty good and sometimes the guy reading the paper got caught you know he made a mistake almost always he did not admit it he did not admit tried to cover it up triy to change the subject you know do not simply say oh I see what you're saying right it's a mistake and you know I have to work on it again no this idea of not will being willing to admit a mistake I'll tell you where else it works I've said this to people in another context you're arguing with somebody about a moral issue or about a religious issue and they fight you to the end and they don't give in at all don't think that their public response is a true indication of what's going on inside inside they may realize that you have a point and they don't want to admit it they don't want to lose face in public and it could be that you're making an impact on them don't give up and say well I couldn't convince him no he could as we say in yish Grizzle over that it could it could uh it could sit and and stew inside and have an effect on him so um there are people who who don't want to you don't want to lose face remember negotia with the Vietnamese so the United States and the vietnames came to the negotiating room what shape shall the table be and what size shall the table be and what will be the implication it's a circular table and some parts are close to the other parts and some parts are close to each other no that can't be the shape of the table you're coming to try to end a war no the shape of the table has to be right because otherwise you looks like you're giving in it looks like you're inferior okay so I think that U emotionalism is correct I think that's a nice observation um and of course emotions can distort your thinking no question about it but I always find this passage where he says it's worthless to me worthless it's just it's it's uh it's F perfectionism like it isn't perfect you know some kids are are victimized by their parents you got a 97 where were the other three points our kids who grow up like that horrible yeah he may be like kind of indicating that he's he's admitting that his spiritual success is really nothing and he's realizing that everything that matters is the and you see that he doesn't have it but has it yeah that's that's what that's what this student said that's the student said and even if it's like oh I would never do that and I would never do Chua but I realize I'm being outclassed I realize I'm being outclassed what he has is infinitely Superior to to what I have you know where you might see it you might see it in marriage you see two people in marriage who clearly love one another but you see what they do for one another and you say GE it's beautiful to see how they love one another but I'm not doing that I'm not doing those things I'm not going to live that way that's too much I I can't do all of that right so he knows that the relationship that he has in his marriage is second rate but he's just not willing to make it make the investment what he doesn't know is that it it's worth it pays itself a 100 times over okay very good