The Bais Yaakov on the Deeper Truth About Sins

yes all right thursday night challenge we're learning something different every week uh last week we learned some of sadik from musician hanukkah this week we're staying in that mode that sonic was a talmud of the ishbitsa so we're learning this week from the safer base yankee valatora was the son of the ishbitsa so a contemporary and a colleague a peer of rapsodic and he follows very much in the style of of his father of the ishbitsa of the mayor okay so here it is he said simmonkhof base okay fine um before we jump in here's a deep question how do you reconcile this is like every dmc they call it dmc meaningful conversation in every dorm room at three in the morning how do you reconcile between and how is the free choice and yet everything is orchestrated by hashem classic philosophical quandary okay so here's one approach from the base yankev uh here we go okay viato lei atem shalaktem ac hena speaking he's speaking to his brothers after he has revealed his identity and he says to them behold you did not send me here rather god sent me here you didn't do it what do you mean you didn't do it and they threw them in a pit they then they pulled them out and they sold them to into slavery and uh what do you mean you didn't do well you know you did it but really hashem was in charge the whole time that's what he's telling you he was telling them don't worry the amish there is in charge whatever you did that's your husband but the abrister was orchestrating the whole thing okay so says the best yank if an indian to understand this what was yes if what kiddish what news flash was he revealing to his brothers i mean obviously there they were believing jews they believed they understood that idea hashem's supervision i mean we're assuming that the shvatim were uh they learned anemia they understood this i mean it was before the balsham but they were the schwa after all so we're assuming didn't they know how brought this so what's what's the news flash that yes with sonic is telling them that even though you sent me but really they should have had his plan okay so that's that's the basianka's question intent was to comfort them will and to speak to their hearts he was trying to placate them he was trying to calm them he was trying to uh but aswage their guilt is that the right word sellers are more so that's bad oh wow sellers are more because they sold him yeah that's pretty more but that's dark humor okay so he wanted to comfort them that they should feel better shiba emma's that in truth they targeted to the depth of hashem's will not that that was what they were thinking obviously that wasn't their thought process but he's telling him you guys you should know something whatever your thought process was i understood i understand you hated me and all that whatever you thought process might have been you you hit the nail on the head you you nailed it you got it you hit the target because this was exactly what hashem wanted and you're what you want to call it your uh your ill will towards me whatever it is okay that's a different discussion but it happened to perfectly coincide with with exactly what hashem wanted to get done valued and that through their hands yahtzee le pale retzenius hashem's will was able to be fulfilled he's like congratulations guys you were the shliya of hashem you did it you carried out hashem's will that wasn't what you had in mind but i want you to know you carried out hashem's will gibba and now the best yankee starts to get personal he starts to say how this applies in a timeless manner to all of us this is a sort of spiritual principle that doesn't just apply to the schwatten but this is something yasef is telling this what them that we can apply to ourselves because in truth hashem is going to clarify for the jewish people this is a very wild statement i i mean if if i if if it wasn't written here from a bar samkhya from such a reliable source it would be hard to say such a thing and we have to take this slow enough to explain it we have to make sure we know what it means because something like this you take this the wrong way and you run with it and uh could cause problems so the base yanker says i got your attention now yeah you could do whatever of course it's just just helping hashem i was only trying to help hashem okay that in the future what's going to happen hashem in the future meaning in the messianic future when meshiach comes when when this whole thing is completed so hashem is going to clarify for the jewish people all of their sins was only like the matter the isa bashas that's brought in gamora where another there's a mishna there there's a mishna there at the beginning of the daf it says a case says a few cases but one of the cases is isha nagar nazir a woman made a nazarite vow she said she's going to become a nazir but and her husband heard the hey fedor law and he nullified he uh he was what's the the correct translation for it and then difference there's two different things there's uh a fodder is he invalidated maybe that's the right translation he invalidated it for her hey for law the gila yoda but here's the catch here's the scenario she didn't know she didn't know that he invalidated her nazirite vow for yayan and she went and she drank wine thinking that she's violating her nazarite vow not knowing that her nazareth vowel was already removed from her so says the mishnah srija she needs forgiveness hashem will forgive her but she needs to get forgiveness not like there's not like nothing that requires forgiveness it does require forgiveness but hashem is gonna forgive her the commissioner says this she doesn't get mauka she doesn't get the lashes actually make like it's because uh is that not really whenever whenever your hood comes after the tanaka he's never khalik in the tanaka he's only being massive so he actually agrees with the tanaka that that she doesn't get malcus but the beholder says that maybe uh marcus mardus rabbinical lashes just to you know that people shouldn't think it's a cool thing just you know put it put a damper on it but for sure she's not really high of malcus because she didn't really violate anything because the whole naziris was already removed from her hotel because even though in terms of the imic the depth of the situation the real kavanagh that hashem had in mind she didn't do anything she really didn't do anything nevertheless she still needs forgiveness she does need forgiveness but she didn't really do anything wrong she thinks she did something wrong and for that itself she needs forgiveness because she thought she was rebelling but really she wasn't doing anything wrong may she be dita because according to the limits of her the parameters of her thinking as far as she knows as much information as she has khatto she did indeed sin okay that's the case in the mishnah so says the basian the hain heim kol hatoy israel so are all of the sins of the jewish people that's a categorical statement all the sins of the jewish people okay don't run away in the middle of this and go take this as a blank check we have to take this very seriously like hold on there till the end but the basically says all the sins of the jewish people meaning throughout history throughout all the generations anything anyone did pago is like somebody who ate unripe fruit it's an expression the gematta says it about uh about davonna melech that really um batsheva was meant for him and it was really uh shidduch it was really meant to be it was bashert but uh what it was just the timing ask me what's the most important part of telling a joke timing is good you want you want the five-year-old version of that like for little kids okay knock-knock no i'm gonna say an act interrupting cow i had to really concentrate to do that you knew that interrupting cow yeah yeah there's by the way variations of that joke i've heard the variations yet so that'll be next you want you want to hear okay knock knock interrupting sheep [Laughter] yeah okay so from there you could extrapolate the different zero of him of this joke okay so yeah we keep a kosher we keep it kosher of course of course yeah so uh it's all about timing it's all about timing so really there's nothing oh that means yeah yeah you're premature premature so it was just it was just the wrong timing should have waited should have waited shaba amik admiration also had that problem that's right yeah it's the famous that he says that the three years of orla from uh from a fruit tree are the tikkun for the three hours that admiration was supposed to weigh because he was created at noon he was commanded at 3 pm and uh no he was i'm sorry he was created at noon and what does this come out in sanhedrin and he had until 6 p.m right chavez would have come in it was like an even vegas you know like in venezuela you ever been to like venezuela like 6 00 a.m is a life 6 p.m it's like okay and it was 6 p.m with shabbos and then he would have taken from the eighth hadas which according to one opinion was a geffen would have squeezed it and made uh made kiddish from the juice and he uh but he was nick so three at 3 p.m at 3 p.m he was niksha and so if he would have waited three hours he could have been mashiach and he could have made kiddish on the eight sedas and everything would have been fine with no untoward results so shakala toyota that's one of the talmudim of the arizona not the same shock as the shock in sofa but uh charcoal toyota says that the three years of orla is a ticket for that so again yeah yeah admiration's problem was timing yeah timing yeah admit whatever says interesting stuff about that also about uh adam yodesh java about yeah he says this the etsa das and the other miodeskava basically didn't get to know her well enough again jumping the gun you know you know uh going uh getting ahead of yourself okay anyways vidal so the messianic says here shiba aimik that in the real deep consideration of things meaning if you really understand hashem's vast eternal plan i think that's tavia's lotion right of vain they don't have any sin he's talking about everyone he's saying this is really there's no sin now you got to be very very careful about that when you you know there's no sin there's no such thing as what even there's no such thing as sin really there's nothing wrong with the ochein tinuat ace voso kaydemusman the only problem was they didn't wait till the right time they jumped the gun does that mean they jumped the gun it's like a person who eats a piece of meat and he doesn't know what he ate he doesn't know if he ate caleb or shuman so what's the din he has to bring a certain type of a carbon called an asham a uh variable sin off a guilt offering he doesn't know what he ate the af even if the reality is that he didn't eat anything but shuman he only ate shuman it was a permissible thing that he ate he only ate but he still has to bring an asham toloi why because he in his mind he did something wrong or may have done something wrong so i mean the basically saying something very very it's a deep concept here that really what's the hat the hat is not the matches it's the intention so really the mathias is all good whatever you did that's how he's reconciling birhira with hashgaka he's saying there's there's no thwarting hashem's plan everything's ashgacha even he's using though an example where one is really unsure what happens when one's attention okay but that that's why he's using that as a marshal he's saying and and in the case with yasif the original case yeah right he said what he's saying is that okay so fine you didn't have the right intention and for that it's like the woman who thinks that she is drinking even though she's bound by a nazarite vow and for that you need sleekhorn the mission is she needs legal she didn't do anything but she thinks she did something so what he's basically saying is a very deep philosophical concept and this is not a blank check this is not giving permission to do a vedas it's just explaining what exactly is egregious about evaders you're not damaging something at least look there are different there are different those are different ways of explaining this please understand this is one way of looking at it but the way the bisayanka was explaining it is mathias is did you damage anything no you didn't damage anything but your intention was to rebel and for that you need slich there's something look the relationship clearly is strained if you think you're doing something against hashem if you think you're a ballet that itself is a problem even if really at the moment you think you're rebelling you give him giving him exactly what he wants you know i i i remember one time i was on a campus and i was being asked these questions about these were these were college kids so they weren't asking in terms of but they're asking from a more secular vantage point from a more secular philosophical vantage point they're asking about um is there truly free will and if there's free will if there is indeed free will how can god be all-knowing i mean your dear is a little bit different than ash not just hashem knows it's going to be but he wills for it to be and he has a desire for it to be anyway so they were asking me all about this so i told them and since then i've actually used this this marshall many times so i think it's helpful um the um what was it called the they did the experiment in uh or was it in at yale where they had the people they were this is like after world war ii i mean not not right after it was like in the 50s or the 60s so the decades after world war ii and uh you know they kept hearing the famous line that they were hearing as they were finding out more and more about the atrocities of of the holocaust so always the answer was we're following orders we're following orders so then the there became a big akira like can you get any normal person to follow abhorrent orders so there was this famous experiment psychological experiment that was administered at yale where they took volunteers from campus and they said come on in and we're going to do a psychological experiment they didn't tell them what the real experiment was what they told them is this is about behavior modification we want to see if we can get people to answer questions on a test better if they're going to have a negative reinforcement for answering wrong so what we're going to do we give we administer an electric shock if they answer the quiz questions wrong and that's we're going to see if that like motivates them to answer the questions better whatever that wasn't the real experiment anyway so it's kind of an absurd premise but that that was that was the um that was the the narrative that they told them so they said all you have to do you have to sit here at this console and there's a there's a button i've i've looked at pictures of they have pictures of the the setup that they had there it's just uh there's a button there's a knob and uh the knob has the voltage how much electricity you're giving to the person and you don't see the person it's through a through a microphone through a radio so you ask them questions like you know what's the capital of nevada and they're like reno oh i'm sorry it's carson city and you give them a little shock okay and then you know you ask them another question like can i make a more trivial fake trivia questions i wasn't really prepared to do this but okay you know um who is the 16th president of the united states what abraham lincoln oh we don't have to shock you okay very good all right it's working you see you don't want to get shocked okay uh what state was abraham lincoln born you get shocked you said illinois but no but now you have to it was kentucky was born in kentucky even though i'm from chicago the licensed place the land of lincoln but he was born in kentucky that's right they said kentucky we got to buzz you okay and then but that but they say turn up they say turn up the voltage okay turn it up a little and then they ask him another question um and he gets wrong oh turn it up turn it up more and after you start turning it up what happens is the guy on the other side starts screaming he's like wow this hurts wow that was really that was really shocking whatever he says right and then they're like okay turn it up and at one point on the dial it's like red and it says danger and at one point if he keeps getting it wrong and it's scripted the the the guy purposely gets questions wrong so that you get to this point where you have to turn it up and they say turn it up okay pass the red past the red into the danger point right turn it up so um and what they did is any time that someone would like hesitate or look at the the person administering the test the person administering the test was just very stoic he was wearing a white lab coat you had a clipboard that's it like but that's authority to people that means authority like you have to listen to that person so there was one line he would say if you would hesitate and be like ah but it says danger he would just say the same line over and over again it is very important for the purposes of the experiment that you continue that's like a meaningless statement it is very important for the purposes of the experiment that you continue and then you know i'd ask the guy a question and get it wrong you know how many uh how many sides in a uh in an octagon seven oh i'm sorry okay and uh turn it up ah but it says danger it is very important for the purpose of the experiment that you continue and then finally what would happen is they would shock the guy and he would be silent he would ask him the next question yeah yeah it'd be like what date is groundhog's day you're like no answer like crowd i'm saying you know what they there's not answering in there i think i shocked the guy to death oh no and then they would reveal to him i was just an actor you weren't shocking anybody and anyways the point of the experiment is they found out like a ridiculous majority of people would do it like regular people off the street would just follow orders and torture people just because somebody in authority told them that they should which is a side point anyways imagine if you were part of that experiment and you just found out that you shocked the guy to death but it wasn't real he he he was only an actor now you have this moment of reckoning the experiment's over you're like you're walking outside and you're thinking to yourself am i a monster i'm not a monster i mean after all the button wasn't connected to anything the guy was just an actor no one got hurt so do i need to do children i don't need to do chover is that do i have what to to when i'm doing my heisman hannah fish and i'm stock taking and i'm doing my moral inventory i'm looking at myself is there something that needs to be looked at or there's nothing to be looked at because everything's fine no one really got hurt and truth is how is it that different than than a mugger who goes to shoot somebody in the gun jams okay so you didn't succeed in doing what you thought you were going to do but you intended to do it so what is it do it again would you do it again okay probably not at the day of reckoning and you say to yourself i need to change that action or that thought process you're going to just do it again and the consequences will hit let's let's say even let's say even you say you know i would never do that again like a person who says um you know there's two parts of chuvas eva the person says look i have no karate because look i i enjoyed it i didn't do anything so terrible but i won't do it anyway i got i got it out of my system right like oscar wilde said the best way to get rid of a temptation is get to give into it uh don't listen to oscar wilde don't listen to his he's not he's not good with moral advice he was very witty but not necessarily good with moral advice anyways um okay so that's another there's a secret from the rabbit where he speaks about because the guy he said look maybe he wasn't even an answer so then he uses that to like rationalize it's not even that bad and then it like takes the wind out of his cells as far as karate he doesn't even have karate i'm not sure that's how the basiaco is using that's more like a kiddish of that of that but the the point is you have a guy who says look i won't do it again but i don't feel so bad about what did i do what did i do already i don't really do anything would anybody really do that would anybody say i'm not going to do it again if there's no karate yeah yeah for sure people do that all the time they say i'm glad i experienced it i'm glad i checked it off my bucket list and then you know i don't i won't do it again yeah i don't feel bad about it i'm just not going to do it again um that's why chuva is two components it's not just as eva it's karate there has to be kharatta there has to be a negative field in in the derek's explains a very interesting oasis why there has to be hara why there has to be an emotional component the emotional component is the opposite of the tynuk the scar of era that so how do you pull out the tiny you already got the timing from it karate is the anti-tank so the bad feeling comes and nullifies the good feeling gets rid of it that's why it's necessary for the chuva process but at any rate let's go back to this this question about the the the the experiment at yale university you know push the button it's very important for the purposes of the experiment that you uh that you continue with the experiment so bahamas according to the basiank if you could look at every evader that way no one's really now you can't say no one's really getting hurt but in the grand scheme of things nothing's really happening that shouldn't happen i threw my brother in a pit i sold him into slavery but that was supposed to happen so why should i have karate like the woman who drank wine and then she finds out oh but i wasn't the nazi when i when i drank the wine so what the bishank is saying is that the aydala indian here it's an edible indian there are two things you have to be macholic there's two things going on here one is the mathias the other is the intent so the mathias may very well be that you didn't cause anything to happen that shouldn't have happened in fact you may have caused exactly what was supposed to happen to happen and it doesn't negate the fact that the very same time you have what to be forgiven for because you chose to do something that as far as you knew he says the heck of daita within the parameters of her knowledge was was a rift in the relationship so really what it comes down to is it doesn't really matter so much the the objective effect of the sin maybe in the abuse there's big vast plan it was all good it was all necessary but what matters is the psychology why did you want to be separate from hashem even if at the moment you were choosing separation from hashem you were actually carrying out his deepest desire doesn't matter you wanted you were mentally and emotionally in a place where you felt separate and wanted separation so it's a it's a very able concept very subtle idea here that requires a lot of it's like acceptance of being able to accept like okay i made a mistake but it was also russell that that mistake was also not something right so it's you have to yeah so it's a deep thing because on one hand it's like you didn't ruin money you didn't ruin anyone's life you didn't ruin your life you didn't ruin hashem's plan you didn't take the steering wheel away from hashem hashem was always holding the steering wheel the whole time at the same time you have to feel bad because you wanted to be separate from hashem as far as you know as far as you knew you were choosing rebellion you're choosing separation so it's it's it's it's a deep concept it's a very healing concept though and it's healing and and that's what the bishanka was saying that yes if we're sharing this idea with the that should help them heal in other words you may need some sleep but ultimately like no right and like and like when you're seeking the tick or know what the ticking is for when you're fixing something you know what needs to be fixed the situation actually doesn't need to be fixed the situation's the mind that's right the mind that's why by the way in egypt says that that chuva illa is bina which is that the whole tikkun that trova brings on is is mental you have to straighten out your cup because really what what's the real dysfunction of any aveda it's the head space that you were in in order to choose the aveda and this is also related to the concept because i'll say that here aveda kosher that in some respects fantasizing about a sin is worse than the sin now that also you have to be mature to understand what context to take that in because if i fantasize about killing a guy it is actually better for his family than if i kill the guy because right if anders knows about killing him he's still going to come home at night if you actually kill him right that's going to interrupt his his life if you kill him right so obviously you have to take this within context but you want to talk about you want to talk about how it affects the person the person who's doing the aveda sometimes it could be that fantasizing about an avedo especially in a prolonged way could be more spiritually damaging to you than if you would just go and do it once just do it and get it over with and do it in a superficial way maybe even you wouldn't you know we do plenty of things perfunctorially you know you'd have in schweinsteiger you can't remember if you did i say y'all i don't know what did i say anything that's it i don't know i don't remember right so you could you could you could do an aveda that way too i don't even remember wasn't even schmuck i don't even remember doing it right so again this is not giving anyone any license to do anything the point is that and again if a person does an evader that causes something in the world and if he thinks about it it's only in his own head but if you want to talk about the psychological effect of the spiritual effect on the person himself yeah it can be a lot more disruptive to your relationship with hashem to be in a in a bad mental space than to do something that was prohibited again you know i i just want to clarify again we're not we're not trying to tell people to take evaders lightly but it's just an interesting perspective that really what's the issue the issue is i have to look at myself and ask myself why did i want to be why was i comfortable with being the the the instrument for something that as far as i knew was against hashem even if later on it'll be revealed to me that it was all part of the plan it doesn't change the fact that i must have been in a bad space mentally and emotionally that i was ready to volunteer to be the conduit for that you know there's the ghazal se miguel gulen hashem makes good things happen through good people bad things happen through bad people what does that mean it means that at the end of the day the abrasive is running the world he's going to make whatever whether it's uh or whatever it is he's going to make it happen and he has his plan he has his reasons it's all practice but why was i the one who said oh yeah i'll do it i'll be the shliyah for something that as far as i know is not what hashem wants even if later it'll be revealed to me no that was exactly the plan that was the plan all along actually yosef doesn't tell us to them while they're throwing him in the pit not only does he not tell him when they're throwing him the pit he doesn't even tell them that when they first meet him because remember he told them a lot of stuff about their lives he was telling them what kind of wood their cradles was made out of that's why they told young we couldn't lie to the guy he says why did you tell me how to baby brother well we couldn't lie to the guy he knew what kind of wood our cradles were because he had that chalice right and he would divine with his chalice so he could have said oh i see that you once threw your brother into pin but don't worry about it because really you don't know he didn't tell them that until he knew they did chuva because he the whole story of his revealing was up to them was he revealed himself to them after he knew that they did truva so after that they felt bad about it it's like once you feel bad about it then you could find out well really you should feel bad but you should know what you're feeling bad about you're not really feeling bad about the fact you caused something to happen that shouldn't have happened because really it should have happened but you should feel bad about where you were in here that you were willing to align yourself with something that as far as you knew what was a bad thing it's a deep concept it i mean it's really it's not uh not a small idea here okay let me let's just finish this uh this paragraph here i don't think we'll finish the whole thing okay so he gives the muscle of the guy who ate uh schumann and thought he ate caleb and he has to bring an ocean tally uh yeah so that's where we left off fine kane asset so too in the future meaning when she comes is he's going to reveal to them you never did innovate it now obviously what does that mean halachically they never did in a veda i didn't even is that what the baby was saying i'm not even sure how we would explain that i'm not even sure how we would explain that that really the m is it was never innovated at all i mean i'll take this on a level of drush not learning this as a halacha safer but relatively speaking you you never did in a veda i mean he says it very very you know categorically you never ate anything not caution and if you ever did it wasn't and your only aveda was that you didn't look for the hatchery and you were willing to eat not caution but but ms you were saved from it you didn't no the the peace that you ate was actually kosher you lucked out the irish third protected you you never ate today you just think that you ate it and for that you had to have done chuva but you never really ate today okay really all of your sins were only from your own psychological perspective which isn't dismissing it and saying it's nothing like we've been saying at length that is significant itself that you would want to separate yourself from hashem is obviously significant and needs to be rectified and now he says but for the nations of the world hashem is not going to tell them surprise good news we looked into it and we found out that every avedas you think that you really did wasn't really innovative no he's going to tell them uh no they were elevators my rather what they did in their dark deeds their darkness will cover them forever so no such luck i'm sorry to tell you the aveda that you intended on doing it was an innovator you know yeah you nailed it yeah yeah yeah not in a good way i don't mean that in a good way anyways deep concept correcting the future your thought i mean according to this he's he's he's giving them a a rule for for life because they've done you but he's witnessed it right yeah but he's teaching them a rule for life it's not just now it's now it's about going forward it's about everything yeah it's to be aware to be aware of your mindset it's helping them be less broken after they're there because they've done chova and also that they know now what it is that they have to be aware of you have to be aware of your your mental space interesting little distinction between um yeah that's the difference yeah i mean he's not saying that's the only difference but yeah he said yeah yeah well what are you getting at i don't know i've never heard that distinction so clearly for like for um it's okay i mean for um it's not okay what you're what you did was what you intended but for us it's um it's almost like there's there's really nobody here but but almost all of them you do like you chose this yeah yeah well there there there's a concept about marshall matter of family and uh the way they wish to judge it for for the numerous different so uh intent works in can be intent can be used linear as a lenient factor or as a as a as a the opposite as a condemning factor so uh in this case no you wanted you wanted to do bad yeah you did yeah so it's counted that you did bad there's a deeper explanation to this as well i don't know maybe i think we'll leave it at that for now but at any rate this is a very deep concept here basically the best yankee was saying that we have to watch our intent we have to watch our intent that the ms were never disconnected from hashem's plan but it's it's bad enough that a person thinks they're disconnecting and for that we gotta we gotta try to do only the things that we know hashem wants us to do so and if you're not not sure if hashem wants you to do it you know you go ask your local orthodox rabbi can you find out if it's if it's a good idea okay