The 3 Weeks: The Great Controversy of the Chasam Sofer and R' Yosef Irgaz

This Torah class is brought to you by tora anytime.com. >> Okay, welcome everyone. Brook, it's amazing even though we're in the 3 weeks now, it's amazing how many Italian gym are relevant to the tufa of the year that we're uh happen to be in. Um, of course, we know minagashkinaz is we don't shave or take haircuts throughout the period of the bayamits. And uh this brings us to the uh important topic of beards. Should a Jew have a beard? Is a beard a uh Jewish look? Is it a is it an obligation? Is it a preference? Is it a minhug? Or is it discretionary? Or is it really not that important at all? Well, one of the fiercest disputes in Jewish history was the raging between and of course we know that not only was it a mus between those two great Israel but there were many ra involved on both sides but one thing they both agreed on was they both agreed on the greatness of the individual we're going to speak about tonight and that is the raami pano raman raenu A mazar of pano. Somebody even was afraid. Rabbi, you know, you speak about the pano so much he may even be surpassing the in terms of your personal popularity. So I just want to assure you that the appears on the mak tonight at least five times. So I don't think uh you know it might be a tight race but certainly you know they're all very beloved. Okay. So Ravenish wrote a safer on Mishbad called which is a very complex safer and in theopley raisit wrote a of it called base and raisit discusses a very interesting uh topic something maybe you'll remember back to your yeshiva days if you if you ever had the privilege to learn the uh the garra talks about the following dilemma. A person gets married and he realizes uh the woman is not a basula you know she's not as advertised. So now the problem is if she was mis while she was married to you in other words after then you're not to live with her. So the garra says if somebody married a woman he found that she's not a he's allowed to continue living with her based on the called what's we know if you're in doubt whether you're permitted or prohibited to do something when it comes to it's so one would expect since you're not sure if this one woman woman was mazana while she was married to you would expect that she in fact is also to you but No, the garra says she is mut to you because of listen carefully. What's a ve? Maybe she was mazana and when she was married to you, maybe it was before and even if she was mazana when she was married to you, maybe it was maybe she was coerced and it wasn't out of her own valition. And if a woman is mazana, a woman was uh coerced, then she's mut to her husband. So it's a sex maybe and even if it was maybe so the question is whenever you use a sex does the have to be miss you ever hear that that concept means you have two possibilities why something should be mut either a and even if not a maybe b do you need to be able to say over the sex maybe A and even if not A B and do you need to be able to say it the other way also maybe B and even if not B maybe A. Do you have to be able to say it over both ways? For example, the classic case maybe it was maybe it was and even if it was maybe you could say it the other way as well. Was it and was it and even if it was maybe that's what it means. So there is the opinion of the rivash who who testifies and attests in the name of the that it does have to be mishap when you utilize the head of you have to be able to say it both ways. On the other hand says the opinion of the maharit he brings slew of rias from that asex does not have to be even if you can only say it one way it's still a valid and he and the preadesh as well also brings many rioa does not have to be comes the rami pano pano who by the way was not only one of the greatest mubalam but he was a great hakist He wrote on the riff. He wrote a kiter of the riff. We know on the back of every gar you have the abridged version of you have the riff. The riff that basically collects from the garam all the pano abridged the riff in a safer called alasi zut alas. The Rami panel says what says Rabenu Aar the great holy pure rabbi the author of Maris you know what he is quoting the he's a you know what that means a wise man always makes compromise. One extreme view is this way, another extreme view is that way. The wise man knows how to sort of take the the opinions of both and and fuse them together to form a reasonable approach. So the raami pan says like this do we say like the re that sex has to be mapp or do we say like the marit that it doesn't the raami pano says as follows that if both there's really no reason to clare to say one suffake before the other then in fact then the sa needs to be able to be in other words if reasonably there's no reason to analyze one suffake before the And each one reasonably you could look at first then taka you need to be able to say it both ways. But if there's a logic that you know what it's more reasonable to clear one shila before the other then even if the spec is not it's okay because anyway it's not reasonable to take it from that side. It's not reasonable to start in that in that way. That's the opinion of the I only bring this in just to see the language of raises. He calls the raman the ravag wrote simla was not one to mince words. He was not he was not one to offer free compliments. If there was any minute deviation in somebody he'll let you know speaks about in unbelievably glowing terms and the same way I compliments that he was able always to make up between the different views of the in completely different subject he's discussing the death of mobu there are all kinds of controversies about the death of moshenu because on the one hand we know He died ma time on Shabas. On the other hand, Kazal say he wrote many on the day of his misa. Well, if it was Shabas, how could he possibly have written? There are many different views. The pano also says on the second line, he had the wisdom of God to make judgment. What is the judgment? He would always find the compromised view. His words his words are so sweet to my pallet. He would say and he would be able to fuse together all the various views. Says of you ever hear you know you say that different people he was the king. He was the king right. Well the real king the king of says was a raami pano. He says who who had mastery of the z like him. We accept his words. He says his words are there's nothing crooked about it. There's no straw. There's no refu. There's no it's it is cleansed and purified and sifted flour. And then the ends off. He gives a any woman who gives birth should give birth the likes of someone like the raami pan. So just let me tell you a little bit more about um the background of the raami pano so that you realize that one one observation we're going to make how startling it actually is. Well, um, if there's one thing you've been learning over the last couple of weeks is that if you ever if you want to know any information about a where do you look the in which in the right wrote a work of bibliographic wonder the writes the writes about the Ramano that the Ram pano by the way in what kufa did he live during what era did he live he lived during the era of the bi Ysef he lived in the era of the bas and as we're going to see amazing thing here the bas is living living in Israel the printing press had not made its way to Israel yet all the print the uh the the the source of all printing in the world the hub of printing in the world was Italy the the bio sent the folios of the kf Mishna he entrusted it to the raami panu who by the way raam panu was a very wealthy man raam panu had a big yusha. He lived in a giant palace. However, he did not spend time in any room in that house other than a shack, broken down room, which that is where he spent his entire life. So, he lived in great pomp and ceremony, but he didn't actually live in it. Very unusual. He had one room like a shack, like a cave. He spent his whole life in there. In fact, we have a tradition brought down the rugam that the Rami pano he would contemplate and meditate and he had a real fear that his nama would go up to Shamayim. So he told the shamish every day to come knock on the door to sort of you know get him to snap out of it so he wouldn't leave this world and there was a fire the shamish was late and he came back and the ra was no longer so he died you know so he died he he lived in the era of the bif in the brings down he heard from lumbusi because lumbusi was present and he overheard that the raami was learning with a maggot. Okay. So Ra had a had a malak who came who came to learn with him. Ra wrote many many I'll just name a couple. Many of them are small. So he wrote something called he wrote something called in fact actually quotes from he wrote a safer called right if you look in that talks about the different right the different 28 wrote on all these various he wrote something called he wrote many He wrote a safer yimash about the correct way to be makif with the lul of and that was a very controversial work. There was someone in the name of Mahari Samiga who wrote a contrary cypher. The name of the answer was you know refers to him as you know the father of I want to tell you one more amazing thing. The raami pano began his career learning one style of kabala and he ended off learning a different style. If you remember back to does anybody remember who is the rebi of the pan is suk is suk was a direct kalid of the Arizal and we we explain how is that possible how how is that the the warned very sternly that nobody could disseminate his kabala other than here the is learning from so we learned that actually preceded to learn from that reason so he was sort of grandfathered in before the admonition of the uh of the ramach is considered a lower level of cabala than the in fact the the the villainy says this villainy says where philosophy ends kabala begins where the kabala of the ramach ends the cabola of the Arizal begins in fact the raak from the ms I I believe he said that in shama And both are true but but they learn alaba. Be it as it may the Rami Po did not have exposure to either brand of Kabala. He heard there was a great sadic in by the name of Ramak Ramosha Cordovo and the Ramos Cordovo actually sent the um Rama sent the Ram Pano many of his swarm many of his far. So that that was the first exposure that Ramano had to the farm of Raosha Cordo. He sent him uh specifically he sent him specifically some of the of uh the ramach but the brings down a very detailed report and that is that Rav Emmanuel now who's Rav Emanuel who's a Rav Emmanuel meo who's Ravanuel Pano the answer is that was his English name not his his secular name the man in Italian is Mani Emmanuel. His his Italian name was Manuel. So it was recorded as follows. The the greatest work of the Ramach is called Aryakar. Ary or Yakar is a 16 volume major. Each work is a major edition. 16 volumes on the Zar, the Ray Mahna, all the Idris. Well, when the Raak died, the Rami Pano was kalishing to get a hold of these manuscripts. So, he needed to bribe to get the manuscripts. He didn't want to buy them. Who would the Amon would never give it up? He sent a thousand ducat to the Amona just for her to release the manuscripts for him to borrow and copy over. Apparently she wasn't willing to release it. So the Rami had to pay off some of the time to intercede on his behalf. So we actually have a record. She paid 20 golden coins to Rab the to convince the of the Ramak to give up the manuscripts. She had to pay off the alik 10 golden coins. Somebody asked why why why did the B charge more? First I don't know maybe you know he he was the malik didn't let him you know he was in but all you know different speakers charge different amount I don't know you know that's anyway we have a detailed account how much money has sent different gdel is to intercede on his behalf okay so here we're dealing with one of the all-time great and the last thing in the world you would expect is to hear the following comes of andifer was posed with the following question. Does a Jew have to have a beard? After all, write very clearly, do not send forth your hand to the beard at all. And theamer in Presburg where you have to know in Presburg you them were all shaving. Contrary to what most people think everybody was shaving over there. It was people shaved. >> No, not with a razor. But they had different ways. However they did it, by hook or by crook, not by crook, more like by hook. They they were they were uh they were clean shaven. And was asked, "What about the kabala that says don't touch the beard?" saysam, "What do you want from me?" Only Isaac bare. Am I a cabalist? I have no business with hidden mysteries. But says, "I want you to know something. If you think that I'll peekaba, you have to have a beard. You should know that obviously in Italy, they didn't care too much about this cabala. Every last rabbi in Italy was clean shaven. And you say what? The ramal basson. This one that one. You heard the man. Every last rabbi in Italy did not have a beard. How's that possible? He said, "Let me tell you that's possible." Elonalia and they blamed it on the great greatest Italian rabbi, the chief cabalist. You know how well he shaved? He didn't even miss one hair. He's not like the guy who shaves and has like those two hairs sticking out over here. He did not even miss one hair. says, "How do I know of the great philosopher the from testified in his safer alim and he would say as follows that Alpo in you should not have a beard." Sounds good, huh? Hear this. is quoting the Yashik who by the way the writes was a great philosopher was a great was was well knowledgeable in every discipline in analytics in Rafua and medicine in every type of discipline he was a great speaker he wrote many works he wrote a safer Ilim by the way he also wrote a work against kabala >> which the Ramas disproved now I just want to remind you anybody remember who's the Ramaz Mosha Zakuto. Now, if you go to Mantoba today, there's a big army base which stands on the cemetery in Manitoba. And on the outside of the army base, there's a sign. Here is buried Rami Pano and Ramosha Zakut. Who's Ramosha Zakut? Let me just remind you the Ram Khal's Rebi. Who remembers? Who's Ram Khal's Rebi? Rabbi Shia Basson. Very good. Rabbi Shia Basson. And who's Rabbi Shah Basson's Rabbi? Rabos Mosha Zakut. Rabi Shasson's father-in-law is Rabbi Yammen Cohen. Ra Mosha Zakuto's Rebi was Rabazar Figo. Rabazar Figo's Rebi was of Modina who we spoke about. So if you want to know the chain zakuto and they all cannot be more different one from the next all had no beards >> and according to they all had a very smooth face. Well says theamifer he quotes you shouldn't have a beard in so therefore explains let me tell you something where did it come from that nowadays so many Jews don't have beards after all in the midbar one thing I could assure you they all had beards and when they entered they all had beards and then when they went down to bavl they all had beards and when they came back to They still have their beards. When did it happen that Jews stopped wearing the beard? Well, it says surfer, let me tell you how it happened. It happened in the year tatnu. Okay, remember that for tatu is the year tough nunv tunv is the year 1096, the year of the crusades. Gazeras Tatnu is a reference in in in uh literature in in uh literature of Sha Chuvo or or oftim reference to the crusades are the gazer is tatu during the tatu the Jews were on the run now you don't want to stick out like a sore thumb if every if every guy is you know smooth face you know lift and cut and the the Jew has a langard the guy's going to say no he can take off his yamaka say you're a deadman Who are you talking about? So they had a shave to uh to disguise themselves. Now the course asked but why did go not have beards? Like going back in the day even go had beards says now I don't get this exact but he says what happened was in Poland there was a king. The king was impotent, couldn't couldn't have children, couldn't produce hair, so he was clean shaven. And as not to embarrass this king, the goyam all began to shave. That's where it came from. Had this guy been a real man, all goyam would look like, you know, you got him in p in Poland. >> In Poland. Yeah. But it all started from this Polish king who was not able to produce hair actually um in Parisan quotes this from a great historian David Gans who was the Rama in any event in order to uh masquerade as a guy it became Jewish custom to shave the beard says except for the rabbis the rabbis anyway they would sit in the house all day so they didn't have to hide themselves but every other yid says, "We're going back hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years to remove their beards." That's a fact. Says, "Sir, if you're going to say that not having a beard is even a small to say such a thing, says anyone who says that there's any a whatsoever not to have a beard. God will take them to task. Some say very harsh words about people who overemphasize the importance of of the beard. In other words, you want to have a beard, no problem. You want to look more like uh the oldtime Jews, Gavaldic, wonderful. But you're going to tell somebody, you know, you're not a good enough Jew because you don't have a beard, says. Oh boy, did he have a beard? Of course he had a beard. No question. All the rabb in Europe had a beard except for Italy. Italy was different. Italy was more renaissance country. It was more advanced. Many of the gym there went to university. Almost all theum there went to university. Padawa almost many of them were physicians. Many of them were karus. So they had to uh for example if I'm not mistaken one of the the head of the Aura Cisral of the last generation you know also I believe of Aaron Cutler told him not to have a beard he's you know he's among the uh um highranking officials presidents he mixes in in high company it wouldn't it would be uncomfortable it would not be dignified you know in the gentile world a beer today is considered messy it's you for for right or for wrong. So there was another Italian god by the name of Rav Shamshin Moro. He was the RV of Anona Porgo was asked the following question. Many Italian Jews made their way to Salonica. Where's Salanica? In Greece. In Greece they were very from. In Greece, the rabbis wanted to be goer that anybody who doesn't have a Jew a beard either shall leave our country or put them in or we declare that they're no longer Jewish. They really held the beers over there. You hear this in Salonica. They made the Rabonim got together to to try to enforce. They didn't like the fact that who these Italian Yidden were coming in and they look modern. they don't look like uh Jews and Puro was asked to comment on whether Salanica have the right to do this and he said of course not they don't have the right to do this could somebody please show me where in the or the does it say that you have to have a beard doesn't say it anywhere all we know is it's a Mishna Mak the Mishna says you can't shave with a razor but if you shave with a you could shave with a scissors you could cut your beard with scissors so therefore he was not for this ban in in Salonica. Well, where did theamifer get this from? First of all, is saying that the Rabon in Italy did not have beards. He's saying that the the reason they don't have beards is they blame it on the raami pano. In other words, they're following the example of the Rami pano. And where? So, I forget this one. So, we have a very unusual. Please look at number 10. Shilas beer as shalas as was written by Raisha Shabsi and he was asked by one of his based on the zoo what's the gamatri of zoo zoo is 13 and there's a concept that the beard represents the yudgim the 13 pathways corresponding to yud And that somehow if you cut off the beard, you're removing all the on the other hand the hair of the head represent and therefore it's recommended that you remove the hair of the head. Why? This way you remove the hair of the head, you remove midas and you grow the hair of the beard, you get midas. Obviously theim take this uh very literally and they emphasize this the concept of the importance of the beard and the the importance of lack of hair of the head and he was asked the following shilah this says you should remove the hair of your head are you allowed to do it with a scissors or maybe you have to use a razor and the beer as says you know I'm so proud to have such talid who understand the concept and the value of growing the beard and removing the hair of the head. very proud of my and he throws out this whopper of an idea that in where you have the and you have the impurity of the nations maybe maybe you need to remove the beard maybe is not roy for a beard maybe it's better not to have a beard and then he says the following if you look at number 10 1 2 3 4 six lines from the bottom I personally investigated very well. I personally wanted to investigate what was the custom of the pano like what did he do on Arab Shabas? How did he get ready for Shabas? And I know very surely every he would shampoo his head, not his hair. You know why? He didn't have hair. He was bald and he shaved his beard like the Italian minag. And if the Rami pano who nobody knew Kaboola and the kissari like the Rami panu who had a tradition from if he shaved his beard then that is just a clear proof to my concept that even though a beard is very important but not in a beard is not fit for so I would like to share with Maybe my favorite chuva right and I don't say that lightly shub who wrote raised of Rabanyammen Cohen Rabany Cohen who's rayammen Cohen the father-in-law of Rabishia Basson who's Rabishia Basson >> the rebi of Raam Cohen is the father-in-law. He's the rebas was one of the chief warriors against and he was very on guard against false cababalists and very on guard about people who would jump into cabala without knowing. Well, he heard about this chuba of shub is who suggests that insets it's better not to have a beard. The Haraya, the greatest mak of all the panel did not have a beard says the words of the isput. It's just chatter. In other words, it's nonsense what the man is spewing. Every word that he says is complete nonsense. Let me tell you something. He himself agreed he himself agreed that he that he's not familiar with Kabala. So it says if the Bik is not familiar with Kabala then where in the world does he come off starting to come up with novelties in Kabal? You know what the Z was only talking about is but it's not really applicable. It's better not to have a beard. If you don't know the fundamental concept of why a beard is important, then how could you start making differentiations what country you live in? But it says of guys, let me tell you my main problem over here. Let me tell you something. If the mikubam say you should not remove your beard even with scissors, which they do say, let's not mince words. The zah says don't touch your beard. Are they arguing with the garra? The garra says you're not to use a razor, but you could use scissors. So just one simple question. Are the mikubam arguing with the garra? The garra says don't theam say don't touch your beard. And the and the says you could use scissors. Is there a over here? Not at all. And the would never argue on the garra. says is one of the most startling things. Anybody who says that if you cut your beard with scissors, you're alive in the is a kifer is no longer a Jew. Anyone who has the audacity to say, "Yeah, the Mishna says you're allowed to, but the says you're not allowed to, and you get an if you cut your beard as a because if you don't believe that and hari that you can't use a razor but you could use scissors then I don't care what whether your pretext is feigned righteousness you're a kifer in in the you're no longer a Jew you pick up my bottle of wine I can't drink it anymore told you could use a pair of scissors on your so what do the mubala mean let me explain something says there's something called nigl and there's something called nistar nigla is shass who has to keep shassim every single Jew. We all keep what it says in the G and the Mishna finished. But the cabala are only for sigula. Kabala are for great individuals who are on a very high major. They could keep saintly practices. But nobody would say that someone who violates what it says in the isarion. Let me explain something says my whole life I'm in terrible pain. How you have some people they jump into cabala and they make believe they're their big mubalam. Yeah. What do they do? They open up some they open up this safer that safer and they start talking. Yeah. I also just said it. They don't know what they're talking about. It's like reading a Chinese newspaper. Says guys, you know what we call this? You know what that means? You have a pushka. It's packed to the gills. You shake it. It makes no noise. So too, you have somebody who knows, someone who knows gar, you don't hear much from him. You know why? Because he has it. He doesn't have to make noise. It's the person who knows like one or two like, you know, what was it called? Like uh sound bites from the z from the Ariza. All of a sudden, you know, he's constantly spewing forth doesn't know what he's talking about. He doesn't know anything. And sometimes people take it so far they think they know and they say oh this says like a over here he says b over here so they want to be mad c and they're things which are then the says even this concept that you should have a beard you should not have a beard and you should have a beard doesn't make any sense what's the difference do you do you sit in And do you wear fill in? Why would a beard be any different? If anything, if there's more and if anything, you should have the beard and come to have a smooth face. Why would it be the opposite? But this is where this is my favorite part. But now says, he completely rips apart the testimony of the Asc. Listen very carefully. says, "With all due respect, Mr. Beer Asak, Rabbi Asak, you claim that you investigated the Raami Pano's personal hygiene on Arab Shabas, and you were told that he's using, you know, uh an orelco that the guy in the buzz on Coney Island took that took out the he dulled the blade. That's what he was doing. It's a massar. Your testimony is testimony against yourself. Listen carefully to what you say. You said that you heard that the pano was b in his beard. Why didn't whoever tell you whoever told you this say he was dick? He shaved his beard. Why did he say he shaved in his beard? You know why? Cuz he didn't remove his beard. He had a lfisha beard. You know what a lifisha beard? where I come from beard is you have a nice neat line over here and you have a nice neat line over here and it's trimmed over here doesn't have a he trimmed his beard that's what it means so you claim he shaved off his beard listen to the words that you heard that's number one number two I spoke to my rebi who is his rebi cohen And my Rebi told me that the BK is not a reliable safer. Can't rely on it. And then my Rebi told me the following. Okay, I'm going to give this out. Don't look at it yet. Okay, you can have it, but if on condition you don't look at it, you think you can handle it? >> I'll let you know when you can look at it. >> Keep it down. Keep it down. Don't open it. Don't turn around. Well, Reignon Rabyam Cohen. >> No, other way. The other way. Raven Cohen told me that he was in Manitoba and he saw a picture of the Rami Pano. >> Turn it over. Turn it over. Looks like a beard to me. The Rami Pano in the picture in Mantoba, he certainly had a beard. Not only that, it was mole. It was a flowing beard. And then the says one of the most important things you will what the the says one of the most important things. The says like this. If you would have told me that the Rami pano gave a shear and when somebody asked him about beards the raami pano said that you shouldn't have a beard in then I would say like this he said it if he said it then it must be true then I would have said I don't believe in Adam would have made such a unusual statement that's If he would have said in other words if would have got up and said I feel that he shouldn't have a beard then my reaction says would have been I would have said if he said it then it must be true but I don't believe he said such a thing the same way that when he heard that said something that he didn't understand he said I don't believe would ever say something again but you're not saying that theami pan said it you're telling me that you investigated and you were told that the Ramano Mipo shaved. What is that called? Hairsay. No pun intended. That's right. That's called hairsay. Hairsay. Information is worthless. I heard that a certain god did this. Whippy-doo it mean I don't care. It's meaningless. Hairsay information has no meaning in Tyra. We do not learn from stories. People tell why do you do this? One time I saw a god I'll do this. First of all I tell the guy you sure you saw or somebody told it to you and you convinced yourself that you saw it. Were you drunk? Were you sick? Were you hallucinating? Were you smoking at the time? Were you Was that a good moment for you? Were you up? Were you dreaming? Maybe you forgot. Maybe you read it and now you think you saw it. A story in has no value. I saw once upon a time. I'll tell you bigger. There's a very important thing. The Gar says if you go to a and the rabbi and a says this is the and you rely on it and the rabbi was wrong, you are not a shyig. You're amazed. A shir is not just because let's say somebody gives a shir fishing don't do it. It's a sh we're learning a topic not no she is from anybody. I don't care who you hear from any god. You do not rely on more than that. You're waiting online and you hear somebody asked the rv, you know, I was just wondering what would the be and the rv says mut can't rely on it because you told him you're just wondering. So he he also just he threw at what he saw at thought at the time. He's not required to to make sure he does his complete dud. The only time you could rely on something you tell her I have a shila that's na me right now. What should I do? You ask her theoretically what would be you know that's why many of the sur that are written today you know are questions somebody asked to go while they were walking it's very interesting but it doesn't carry the weight of you can't rely on it means something but says you heard that who cares we don't rely on stories maybe the guy who saw saw wrong Maybe he said it over wrong. He said another thing. Maybe P was sick and he had a disease and that's why he had to shave his beard. But if you would ask him what to do, you would say a father you have to have a beard. You can never bring a oh I saw this god doing this. Maybe he had mitigating circumstances, extenduating circumstances. You can only rely you ask I want to know what should I do and he tells you what to do. Certainly a shar is a a good indication, a good starting point. But if you have a serious question, you know, hm, what should I do? Let me check up on Torah anytime. If somebody has a good shar on the subject now, don't get me wrong, I like Torah anytime. But you look at the Mishna Bura, you have to ask a Shila. But these type of anecdotal anecdotal evidence is only anecdotal evidence. And therefore says there's no way in a million years pano did not have a beard. It's just not possible. We have a picture. I spoke to my Rebi. My Rebi said that the is not reliable. He himself didn't say the Raami shaved it. He shaved in it. But interestingly theamer does quote that the Italian Gum did not have beards which is certainly true. Most Italian gadam did not have beards. We we do know whether the rami had a beard or not. Many GDA we know Ranch Porgo and others were clean shaven and there were very great sadikim and there were very greatim and there were very great and there was nothing lacking in their well comes and if you know the salazar the concept that the did not have a beard did not sit well with him Even though the would be the last to ever disagree with but this is where he draws the lineam says that the pan didn't have a beard. Soazer says like this says that who does he quote that says the founder didn't quote he quoted in the says I checked over there he doesn't say that pano didn't have a beard it says that he didn't have a beard yashi kandaya didn't have a beard and of course he didn't he was a very um he was very involved with the governors, with the officers. He was politically very active and he couldn't have a beard. So where exactly did theam forget that the didn't have a beard? He must have remembered it from the and somehow there was a little bit of an error and it was attributed to the says the probably never saw the chuva of if you would have seen the chas of says that is not reliable and that the whole testimony pan is not that he shaved off his beard but he shaved in his beard and that ramen said that he saw a picture of Pano and he had a beard would have been. Now this is where the takes it to another level and the writes his personal opinion is as follows. When the Mishna and uh the take a look at number 14 and we'll close with this. The Mishna he says that someone who cuts off the pis of his beard by the way I want tell you very importantly but at the end of the day you're allowed to use a scissor and if you have an acceptable shaver you can use an acceptable shaver but moans you're allowed to use it but you should know that's the beard the pis harsh even with the scissor where you can't cut them extremely close to the face. They have to be at least long enough, a certain length, long enough to grab, long enough to bend over. Some people like to have a certain hairstyle. They like very sharp sideburns. So, while a shaver which is an acceptable shaver says is mut on the face, you have to be careful in the area of the pis not to shave the sideburns too close. Where does this come from? How do we know you're allowed to use scissors on the face? It's a Mishna. The Mishna says, look at number 14. You're not until you shave it with a razor. What is that? That was scissors. It's permitted. Well, the has a different way of reading the Mishna. You're only if you use a razor, but if you use scissors, you still get a lab of he quotes. There are many who say that you should know the says that the seems to say that and the says that according to the merely touching the beard is a problem. However, it don't really matter because the bas says very clearly we don't pass in that way. The B writes that we pass and you read the Mishna, you can't use a razor, but you're allowed to use scissors. And therefore, we conclude as follows. You want to know did the Rami Pano have a beard? Cyer says no. In all likelihood, the Rami Pano probably had a beard something like this. There's there's an article written in in um in the early 1900s a journal called where he brings that sadic from Kam was in a museum in Vin and he saw another picture of Rami Pano where he had a beard. So in all likelihood ragaz who had a tradition from his rebi rab in all likelihood it's very reasonable pano unlike every other Italian god he himself probably did but it's not really an issue despite and he's not the only one but nevertheless we have something called and the safe writes that The reading of the Mishna is that you know how to use a razor on the face but scissors are mut and therefore our approach is like this we know for sure that anybody who says there's an to remove the hair of the face that person's going to face the consequences why because we have a messiah we have told according to the normative it's permitted. Is there an Indian? Yes. But like the says the for but for somebody to say to somebody else you have or it's or it's a or it's a small not a small says um he writes the following words the custom of going back to the tatu is not it's not from a corrupt source says It has holiness as well. And therefore, there have been many great people throughout our history who are and the fact that they didn't have a beard did not diminish from their godlas. But there is such a concept. And um so now we're in the three weeks where where the mugg is at least now starting uh tomorrow for sure. And certainly one should try their best during the week of tishab itself. This year it's not clear whether there is a because it's pushed off to Sunday. But um if you do end up having you know the hair so at least one week a year or three weeks a year the but uh where I come from the and the external trappings as we say are always helpful but the not to let a person get carried away with it because the is like the writes the is the the garra the pkim which is incumbent upon every Jew and above and beyond that that's for the have a wonderful evening >> you've just experienced another Torah class brought to you by to anytime.com