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Talkline Hosted by Zev Brenner with Rabbi Zvi Gluck on tragic death in the Jewish Community
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welcome back to the program I'm Zev
brener and we have a very special
broadcast tonight as I mentioned at the
onset of the show is that uh over 77
people uh that uh that are over there
that uh 7 77 young men have
unfortunately lost their lives since
Russia Sha of this year uh because
either suicide or drug overdose a
terrible terrible situation so uh we are
going to be examining that tonight and
in just a moment we'll be speaking to T
Gluck from the amudam organization he's
director of their group they do
wonderful wonderful work and trying to
work with people trying to work with
families but I think one of the biggest
problems is we have to educate ourselves
our community uh to what is going on uh
Jake do we have t on the phone I know
he's a should on the phone okay so we're
going to be getting him on the phone
right now and fact will be calling will
be uh we'll be calling him um and you'll
be able to call in tonight with your
questions in just a moment as well and
our number of course to call is 1888 NYC
radio that's 1888 NYC radio that's the
number to call us and uh yes uh so and
that's the number to call and you want
to email us Zev talkline
communications.com that Zev talkline
communications.com an excellent way to
get through and reminder of course we're
week nights with you on wsnr 620 on the
am dial and uh we look forward to
communicating with you if you haven't
done so please join us on Facebook on
Google+ on LinkedIn uh also a wonderful
way for us to keep in touch with you
with our broadcast our programs and uh
we'd love for you to be in touch with us
on a regular basis okay I think we're
going to be establishing contact right
now fre Glock and you know
what I believe we have it's we'll patch
him over here good how are you H goodev
how are you sorry a little phone issues
here not a problem by the way I had the
pleasure and privilege of seeing your
esteemed father at City Hall at Gracie
Mansion the other day at the celebration
for Jewish Heritage in New York Ator by
Edgar G always a pleasure to see him in
you're carrying on his good work with
your community activities so thank you
for being with us Shu shov and thank you
for having me and thank you for those
warm
regards want to begin of course on a sad
note I I was in burrow Park the other
day when I was told that a young man 22
years old committed suicide on Wednesday
I know people are visibly upset about
that let's look at that and then
unfortunately another tragedy on
Thursday you're dealing with this on a
day-to-day basis just tell R so what
amum does and let's look at the tragedy
that took place this week so there's a
couple of things amudam as an
organization tries to do Crisis
Intervention and help guide people to
receive help and services that they need
um and part of what we've been doing
under the guidance of our is to create
better awareness so that people can get
the help before it gets to uh our
doorsteps um so to speak and I just want
to mention that you know when it comes
to publicizing these types of things
it's actually a it's not so simple and
I'm just going to say this there now
because I'm sure some of the callers are
going to have this question there are
studies that show that sometimes
publishing publicizing these matters may
be harmful and there may be copycats and
people that may try to do things uh
because they hear that others have done
it and then there are studies that show
the other way uh that publicizing these
things will help to bring awareness and
ask people to reach out and get help um
I'm not a clinician I don't know which
one is accurate I know personally when I
do send out m emails or when we do do
awareness events or interviews such as
this we do find an influx of calls of
people seeking help and that is really
the purpose of why we're trying to do
this is to bring publicity not
necessarily to speak about the
individual cases or the that are no
longer with us but if we can use that as
a uh you know springboard to get others
to know that there is help available and
there are resources out there that they
should want to do so and by the way I
know every time you're on the air you
always tell me a lot of people call in
afterwards to get help and that's the
reason why we have you because we have
to educate people about it and there are
people who need help may not even know
there's a play an Avenue they may think
they're alone uh in their problems and
when they realize that there are others
that are out there in a similar
situation and there is relief and help
so I think that's important for some of
them that unfortunately in this kind of
situation absolutely so let's look at
what happened this week un fortunately
two tragedies took place one Wednesday
Thursday let's look at what happened and
then we'll analyze what's been going on
since Russia sh of this past
year um so on the case that happened on
Wednesday unfortunately where a young
man you know is no longer with us I have
to be honest I do not know the specifics
other than what the media is reporting
uh this is not someone that we were
involved with you know either on
treatment or on Therapy Services but
what we do know is that a young man is
no longer alive and no longer with us to
share his pain and see what help could
be done obviously there was something
there the following tragedy which was
the next morning or early afternoon
rather is a uh young boy that uh was
found of an apparent drug
overdose um and this has been
unfortunately a very common phenomenon
it's been happening I mean just so much
and we're hearing about it and we just
made the decision to no longer allow
this to be swept under the rug you know
the families are suffering siblings
parents spouses children whatever it may
be and we need to do whatever a little
bit we can to
help because of the sensitivity of those
issues I would and I know this from
dealing with our place where they've had
young people also unfortunately lost
their lives with drug overdose and drug
abuse where sometimes parents themselves
have trouble grappling with that and
going to a funeral and been
participating so you can imagine outside
the family it's a lot tougher dealing
and grappling that some of the issues
that affect General Society also
unfortunately affect us in the Jew new
Orthodox Jewish Community as well right
I mean I'm gonna what comes to mind is
the story that uh the great R
shalamon has said many times where he
said that he was once walking down the
street in yush and there was a child
that was injured and somebody picked up
the child to run to a hospital and a
woman walked by and said what's going on
here and someone said oh a child you
know got hurt and the woman said oh you
should have a Ru Shala and as she got
closer she noticed that this child was
her grandson she started screaming my
Meo my Meo we need to save him it's my
Meo and that's really what's happening
here and that's what's happening here in
a regular basis every time we hear about
story the story is irrelevant always
thinking as if it's somebody else that
poor family but we're not internalizing
it and saying this can be one of our own
and I think in order for us to really be
able to do that is we need to understand
the awareness and there's a lot of it
and we can discuss in detail some of
what should be done for prevention but
if we really feel that each and every
member of our community is our own
family which we should then maybe will
be able to take the appropriate steps
and it'll be in every case my mayoral as
opposed to just somebody else's now
let's look and analyze some of the fact
and we'll get possible solutions at
least to try to mitigate the
circumstances are the majority of the
cases that you're dealing with the 77
since Russia shun are they drug overdose
are they suicides are there other issues
let's look and see what exactly is
transpiring so I'm not in my office as
you know I'm actually Upstate so I don't
have all the data in front of me on my
fingertips but of the 77 most of them
were drug overdoses or alcohol
related um and then there was a you know
a sad larger number of you know suicides
as well but most of the debts that we're
dealing with is part of this growing uh
drug epidemic that is plaguing our
community as so many
others so drugs is certain important
issues to what people now are we also
dealing with people depressed are they
these people who have evicted
molestation are they dealing with some
other personal issues that making them
turn to drugs what uh because it's not
just somebody just using drugs and
overdosing there's sometimes other
reasons as to why they're using it so
you hit the nail on the head more often
than not and I'm not going to say 100%
of the time but certainly a large
percentage people that turn to drugs or
people that turn to suicidal thoughts
and even carrying it out have suffered a
very very serious trauma when they were
younger sexual abuse is certainly on top
of that list but then you also have
madine such as bullying in schools
physical abuse severe emotional issues
uh you might even have people that have
certain learning disabilities and
because of that got bullied in school
and then turned to other things so
there's really a lot of issues that are
going on at once and we keep you know in
the community beating around the bush
instead of trying to tackle it head on
but I I'm it's I'm sad to report that
yes sexual abuse and molestation is
definitely a large percentage of these
issues unfortunately I remember there
was one young man who came to our studio
number of years ago and he was a former
member of the sakaa community by the
time he came to me uh he was full of
tattoos I don't believe he was as
observant as he once was um but he was a
victim of sexual abuse and that really
changed his life and unfortunately he
took his life because dealing with that
not everybody's able to Grapple with
some of those issues it's a very very
tough situation everybody is different
about them we have to be able to deal
with this problem and working with those
that have been abused and give them the
support that they need um and a lot of
times they need a lot of support um and
for people to feel to empathize with
them if they feel that there's just them
against everybody nobody believes them I
think that contributes to some of them
can be
suicidal right so I'm going to actually
quote um what Dr schy Zimmerman said
recently uh on a you know we did a um
speaking engagement uh and there was a
whole bunch of speeches for rney had
spoken RAB Wallin and Dr Zimmerman and
Dr Zimmerman was into something that
we've then heard from I
believe coined initially which was he
would like to change what they write on
death certificates from being overdoses
drugs or suicides that they should just
write the word shame because he says
most people that are suffering because
of the shame that's involved in it are
not able to get the help that they need
and therefore that's why they're
suffering and that's why they're going
down that spiral and I think it wasel
salant that had said nobody ever died of
hunger they died of Shame and because
they were too proud they didn't go out
to get the food for their hunger so I
think it's something that we need to
remove the stigma you know especially
with sexual abuse but really with mental
illness as well and with other issues we
need to remove the shame remove the
stigma remove that whole component and
then people will be able to seek
professional help that they need and
they'll be able to head towards the
right path of recovery has the stigma
been is it something which people in our
community are willing to Grapple with to
deal with when somebody says I need help
I've been abused I've been um been in a
bad situation with my family I'm being
beaten I just don't feel comfortable I
can't be at home are we receptive to
that message so it's definitely getting
a lot better I mean and there are a lot
of resources available for people you
know that have the helps I mean just as
an example you have relief resources
that you know provides referrals to
therapists you know mental health
professionals treatment plans you have
organizations such as mask you know
ourplace
madreo uh the Manan and Lakewood AR
naava I mean you know and there of
course amudam but there's so many out
there the stigma is definitely being
broken and the community is definitely
more aware of it but we still have a lot
more to go I can't tell you how many
times we get calls for help from people
and they're always starting off by
saying but nobody can know I mean I'm
just going to give you an example just
recently somebody reached out to us for
help their child was a uh unfortunately
a victim of sexual
abuse and it then turned to a lot of
other issues addiction being the bulk of
it and needs to go to a very specific
treatment program that can treat the
addiction and the severe PTSD from have
being sexually abused and this is very
costly program so we were able to get
them you know A reduced rates some
scholarships whatever help even get the
insurance company to cover some of it
but there's still a very big expense and
when I was sitting with these parents I
said listen we need to reach out to
people that you know you know we don't
have unlimited funds to pay for these
things we need to try to raise it and
there is a family member in this
person's family that has some money and
this person's absolutely not willing to
reach out to anyone they know to help
because of the shame so and this happens
all the time I'm just relaying one story
where people are scared to reach out
because of Shame and that is why people
can't get the help they need so that is
what we're trying to
break we're speaking with s GL he is
director of amudam and we're looking and
analyzing unfortunate situation over 77
people have committed suicide or been
victims of drug overdoses since Russia
Shana just the number of months ago of
this year when we come back we want to
get your
questions welcome back to the program
I'm Zev brenon fre luck director of Amud
and with us we're looking at suicide
within the Orthodox Community 77 since
so unfortunately murders suicide not
murders suicides uh drug overdoses since
Russia sh this year we're taking your
phone calls one8 NYC radio 1888 NYC
radio email us via talkline
communications.com I will we have Rabbi
lighter from Muny Rockland County shu to
your question for its
fre Rabbi ligher are you there yes yes
go ahead your question with s Glock yes
um could I inject some optimism Al be it
at the risk of being a bit premature
with regard to the segment of the
suicides that are due to
molestation I think that in part the
battle is not as hard as some people
think it is and that's because if we
would just take the cases of the known
molesters that basically everyone agrees
or I've been molesting kids for many
years and we go after them full force
and thereby put the enablers of those
molesters on defense we would be able to
make a dent in the molestation crisis
that's in part responsible for the
epidemic of suicide at least at least at
least that segment and that's not so
hard to do it doesn't take a whole lot
to get the seor aware and opposed to the
enabling perpetrated by certain Ron and
that are keeping the well-known
molesters on the street what's your
question with s Glock what do you want s
Glock to do what's your question for him
well is is is that a realistic strategy
in his what realistic strategy through
the W is isn't it realistic instead of
at least to deal specifically with the
segment that that's um due to
molestation uh to focus instead of
focusing on on every molester focus on
the known molesters go after them full
force and thereby put their the strategy
should be to go after the no molesters
full force okay T um your response to
that so our answer as follows first of
all the majority of molestation occurs
within the confines of people's homes
immediate family members and close
family friends so that's the largest
percentage that we're dealing with
obviously of course if they unknown
perpetrators we need to do whatever we
can to make sure that they're not able
to perpetrate and hurt anybody else
whatever means necessary so agree
that step up to the plate and be aware
and accepting of these issues and
dealing with them and but I will tell
you that we're certainly getting closer
than we ever were uh but that is a very
valid point yes
I mean because I think that is a big gap
in the anti- mation strategy I think
there's a a lot of simple things not
being done without any good reason for
it that in just maybe because people
aren't focused on it but that one
strategy would be employed effectively
with Focus I think we could make Headway
where it's not been made for
years okay I think uh he said that that
was a good idea and we appreciate your
phone call thank you thank you we going
to take some email here's an email
question from our listener and she wants
to know with all due respect how do we
know that the statistics Mr Gluck is
publicizing or accurate and not
exaggerated to promote his cause can
they be independently confirmed or do
people need to take his word to believe
them
so do that as
follows way to prove it to you because
most of of people that passed away are
not will step up to the plate and say it
happened to their loved one because of
the same embarrassing fact
but let's assume the number is only one
that would you want too much but we know
from the
main 19 of these cases that have been
publicized by the media so let's assume
whatever reason I am fabricating numbers
which sadly I'm not and I have no reason
to um every death is too
many anyone can even have that type of
question means they don't value the
human life of even one person so I find
that email to be a little bit
unacceptable to be honest with you but I
guess it's a legitimate question to find
out how you got your numbers so well the
numbers came in either through uh people
that were friends with the various cadas
the medical examiners offices cases that
we've dealt with people that have called
us telling us few months since we
started track and actually giving out
the numbers of other people that have
called us whenever they about case so
that we can keep the statistics accurate
we're able to use it to provide uh
awareness and warning to others so
whether it's people askk or you know
organizations on our place that contact
us when they know about these issues and
a lot of these we know about from our
vast Network between the cover the
police department the medical examiners
offices uh and things of that nature BC
writes kudos tolu for tackling the
sensitive issue of suicide in The Firm
Community does r luck feel that some of
these suicides are results of pressures
being put on these victims who simply
can't handle the pressures of being
forced to live a life that they simply
doesn't suit them but are forced to do
family and Community
pressures
unfortunately that's
me for and that don't do it um tough
question those that have
you know suicide notes have detailed
things of that nature in it um but but
just to remind the listeners the bulk of
these deaths are drug related so let's
just keep that in mind as well I know
some of media Outlets are using you know
the word suicide to be able to create
highlights but we need to remember the
underlying and and and the larger cluses
as well
but we certainly feel there is data to
suggest that a lot of the people
dying from either of these
are you know let's see if we can get a
little better connection so we're going
to break we're also going to hear the
latest news from Israel continue our
conversation with s Gluck doing an
outstanding job with amudam dealing with
tragedy in our community you just heard
about 77 people unfortunately lost their
lives due to Suicide of drug of Overdose
since the beginning of the Jewish year
since Russia sha uh
22769 19 25
1925 and it's fre luck is our guest so
we'll get to some of your emails right
now here's AI Ruben writes from the
Lower East Side of Manhattan he goes
Shabu to both of you Zev great show as
usual the only way things will change is
when s luck has his own weekly radio
show on as many Jewish stations as
possible so that this great s can get
and bring his precious message get his
precious message over to um hope to
Yeshua and as many people as possible
why doesn't he have the amudam hour on
the air so Zev give him air time on the
radio where all and and once know also
bad drug over those only male where are
the females it's
fre so before I answer that question I
just want to go back to the original
email that I responded to because when
we spoke off here I feel I may have come
across a little strong I got to be
honest I am extremely emotional about
these issues and I take it very personal
I understand that a lot of the people
don't know what's really going on and
that's why we're doing these awareness
things um but sadly the statistics are
true and and sadly we are losing way too
many and that's why we're doing this so
I do understand that the person that
wrote that in doesn't know so I just
want to take a moment and say I'm sorry
in case I came across too strong um as
far as the female so again I'm not in my
office I'm Upstate but the numbers are
approximately 60 60% % males 40% females
uh in dealing with the issues that we're
talking about so I don't have the exact
numbers I have the exact breakdown at
work of how many are from what and over
what time period and uh we do this again
or whatever I can get you those data or
if somebody specifically wants it we can
email it to them as well and yes we'd
love to see to we do a weekly radio show
on these issues it's certainly very very
important so AI if you or anybody else
can get any people to back it up please
contact us and we'd love to see it on I
think can be important very important to
provide a really vital community service
so AI good question here's a one from
duid and queens the fact that we have
lost 77 precious nishas in such a short
period of time is heart rendering Yash
to RAB GL for all the amazing work he
and Amud do I'm wondering why we're
pumping overdoses with suicides is it
because we can't always tell whether an
overdose is a suicide or because we feel
that overdose and suicide has had the
same causes or some other
reason so the simple answer is because
we decided to make a cut off at the age
of 35 years old and just figure out how
many people are passing away we weren't
looking to break it down we're looking
to make awareness um yes it could be
many times that the overdoses may have
been suicides could be not most
overdoses we know are accidental people
that were clean their body built up a
tolerance to whatever drugs they were
using and then I just to give a simple
example somebody takes a lower dose and
then as they become a bigger addict they
take higher and higher dosages then once
they get sober their body builds up a
tolerance again to what would have been
the lowest dose but if they relapse they
sometimes go back to the most recent
those they took which their body can no
longer handle and that's a fatal and
lethal combination and that is why they
pass away so we call those accidental
overdoses so the real reason is I don't
know what to do I know this is happening
I know if we'll lose our kids I know
that 77 in 10 months is ridiculous it's
an epidemic it's a MAA so we're just out
there saying help I don't have the
answers I really don't but I know that
what's going on now is not helpful I do
want to just share with you have a quick
story which is one that keeps me going
because many times people call me and
say you're crazy you're screaming too
much you're too
emotional you know you're never going to
change it so I got to just say one story
and I'm going to try to make it quick
Zev um we're familiar with Rabbi X from
Daria shum right sure does amazing work
as well right so there was a story that
for many years um people that had
children that were born with this
horrible disease called TX were sent to
special taxs Ward which would be
considered modeled you know modern day
pain management till somebody passes
away there was really no cure and the
ward that had the most of these was in
Kingsbrook Jewish Medical Center and
there was a waiting list for two to
three years to get a child into that
Ward well not too long ago Rabbi Xin got
a phone call from the management at
Kings Brook Jewish to come down for an
event and when he got there the event
was the closing of the ward Rabbi Xin
through his awareness through his
programming through his genetic testing
was able to effectively shut down a ward
because there was no longer a need for
it I know we're fighting a a really
tough battle but we're not going to give
up we're going to use stories such as
Rabbi exin to give us the ability to go
on do we need more prevention programs
we do do schools need to be better
prepared how to deal with all these
issues rabam and teachers need better
trainings we do do parents need to be
better educated to know what to do when
these issues happen to their kids
absolutely there's just so much out
there that needs to be done and there's
a lot that is being done bar
organizations like Torah M have really
been stepping up to the plate
organizations like the safe found
Foundation madreo mask so many others
they're really doing it of course we had
Amud are doing our part as well but we
can't do this alone and we don't have
all the answers and at this point I'm
screaming for help I don't know exactly
what that is and if people could get
involved in whatever way they can we
need to deal with this issue let's we
have a few moments left where do people
contact you to help to get more
information to be involved I mean the
easiest is content look at our website
www . amm.org or they can call the
amudim office at 646
51722 but I do want to be very very
clear rev it's not so much about
contacting us obviously that would be a
good start but if people have resources
in their own Community they should get
involved with them as well they should
just reach out and see what can be done
there's so much out there and a lot more
than any one organization can
tackle okay here's a quick email uh
joose of Rights goats for you go you're
doing a phenomenal job people in the
community don't realize that for every
so-called successful suicide there are
four other attempted
suicides any comment there we're dealing
with the ones that committed I'm sure
there are a lot of that contemplated
that reach out for help and some of them
are help correct like I can say that
about suicide really more about drug
overdoses almost every time we deal with
a fatal overdose there are people that
Reach Out friends and family that say we
have others that have the same problems
they don't want to end up like their
friend can we get them help can we get
them Services now the truth is I'm going
to be very very blunt and bold these
Services cost a Fortune of money and and
I I sort of coined the phrase last week
and I should be forgiven for saying this
but apparently funerals seem to be
cheaper than rehabs and treatment and
that's why it's so much easier once
somebody dies to raise the money to bury
them but when they're begging for help
people just aren't there stepping up to
the plate and we need to just urge
people that each and every life is
valuable more than anything else and
people really need to get more involved
okay we're out of time let's give out
your phone number one more time we
apologize others we couldn't get to S
luck director of amudam wonderful job
how can people reach you again one more
time so the phone number to amudam is
51722 two and our website is
www. amudim a M UD m.org thank you TW
luck for the important valuable work
that you're doing the mysterious s
devotion that you have we look forward
to having you back we look forward to
those numbers dropping not increasing so
thank you absolutely Z let's we all got
to do our part and with help from above
and help from each other we can try to
make sure that we don't have to worry
about telling another family that they
lost a loved one
especially make sure you tune Us in 24
hours day talkline communications.com
our 24 a listen line 401
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you Jake behind the controls join us
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thank you once again for listening to
the talk line Communications Network I'm
Zev brender shalom